Talk:North Macedonia

See also: Talk:Macedonia (country)/Archive

Formatting and language conventions For articles about North Macedonia, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: 100 denar and not 100 ден or MKD100. Please use American spelling (color, labor, traveled, realize, center, analog, program).

Cities

Per 7+2, there should be no more than 9 cities listed in the "City" section of a country or non-bottom-level region article. So which ones should they be? There are currently 10 listed. One needs to be removed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:54, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn't aware of this policy. Local hero (talk) 14:30, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Not a problem. But which 9 cities do you think should be listed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:27, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I think the 9 currently listed are the right ones. Local hero (talk) 00:02, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Good. I didn't see that the list had been reduced to 9. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:15, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Macedonia (country) ———> North Macedonia

• Move Opened a discussion where ever this article should be moved to North Macedonia. Both countries Rep. Macedonia and Greece have ratified the prespa agreement that will put an end to the name dispute. The name change will go into effect on 8 February 2019 and a NATO protocol seems likely on that day, feel free to join the discussion. —The preceding comment was added by Ben2949 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I think I agree with this one, because no-one really disputes that both the country and the Greek region are parts of Macedonia, so I think the new name for the independent republic will take hold very quickly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:04, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Republic of North Macedonia--Traveler100 (talk) 23:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

North Macedonia will be adopted quickly, and we don't need "Republic of". Ground Zero (talk) 01:52, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: the same discussion is going on at Citizendium, where a user has made two public comments indicating that he will move the page to "North Macedonia" in the near future. So I'd agree with North Macedonia. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 03:59, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
• North Macedonia. Would prefer North Makedonia if there were any chance of that becoming common usage. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 16:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there's much chance for that spelling in English. "Macedonia" is very well established for both the Greek region and the Slavic republic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I'd say "North Macedonia" because everyone knows the word so well. "North Makedonia" should probably be a redirect, though. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:27, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

So I support a move to "North Macedonia". Do we have consensus to move? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 14:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• I am now going to do the page move. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Updated text

Considering the desire of the country to change its name, and the sensitivities around the old name, and as this change has taken effect, I have updated the article, changing "Macedonia" to "North Macedonia" except where it is being used in a pre-2019 context. I have not changed "Macedonian" where it refers to language or the Macedonian Orthodox church because we don't know if these will change.

Is there any objection to moving the article now? Ground Zero (talk) 08:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Renaming was officially done on Tuesday, 12th. English and German Wikipedia, Commons and German Wikivoyage renamed their articles and categories today to North Macedonia. --RolandUnger (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

The "sensitivities" around the name of this country have always been one of the world's more absurd examples of petty nationalism, but if North Macedonia is to be the new common English name, then I support the move.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

It's hard to know what the common name will be and, thus, my preference is to keep it at the current title until North Macedonia becomes more common (if that ever happens). From a traveller's perspective, however, is North Macedonia more appropriate since visitors will encounter "North Macedonia" on official signage in the country? So, I wouldn't object to changing the title either. Local hero (talk) 19:37, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I think the title should change but not most of the examples in the text, currently. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm for changing the country name, there's no reason we shouldn't use North Macedonia, redirects would be helpful --Billbarrelrider (talk) 14:04, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Interesting how we've moved so much faster with this than with Eswatini. I'm not opposing the move, just noting the difference, which I find surprising. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:30, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I think because all we're doing here is adding "North" before the name of the country, while with "Eswatini" it's a change to a totally different name. I see the reasoning. Also, there are many more comments at Talk:Swaziland than here — which, IMO, shows that we're not doing things differently in the case of Swaziland than we're doing in any other case. I don't see why it's an issue; if we decide not to move one page but move another, it doesn't mean that there's some sort of difference in how we are handling different cases. In the case of the Swaziland move discussion, there is no consensus, but there is consensus here. That is why there is a difference in how quickly action is being taken.

However, I'm glad you added a redirect from Eswatini to Swaziland — that should have been added a long time ago. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I realize that the consensus is different in the two discussions. That's what I find surprising. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:12, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

The Eswatini change has elements of the one of Cabo Verde, which are absent here. I do not have a firm opinion on this or Eswatini, but I think there are reasons to have different consensus when the cases differ. --LPfi (talk) 07:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I think there are two factors making this change easier, though it might possibly be too fast: (1) The main part of the name, "Macedonia", is well-established; (2) "North" is a simple English-language word. I think this is what LPfi may be alluding to. "Eswatini" or "eSwatini" are simply not English-language words, whereas "Swaziland" is easy for English-speakers to understand. I think that the apparently wide acceptance of the new name in English-speaking Southern Africa means that the change should be made sooner or later, but I'm not sure when. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:06, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, that explanation makes sense. Now I'll head over to Talk:Swaziland to participate in the discussion there. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:53, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘I agree with Ikan Kekek about the reasons. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Region names

The discussion at Talk:Western Macedonia about renaming two of the country's regions hasn't had much participation. Please weigh in if you have any thoughts. —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:50, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Macedonia renamed

Swept in from the pub

On Tuesday, Macedonia (country) was officially renamed to North Macedonia. --RolandUnger (talk) 14:16, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

There is a move discussion at Talk:Macedonia (country). I support the move. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 14:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I have fixed the isPartOf categories for North Macedonia.

Now Macedonia (Greece) and cities in the lost sub-regions need to be fixed. There are a good number of city articles still under East Macedonia, Central Macedonia and West Macedonia.--Traveler100 (talk) 06:26, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Also need to look at links on other pages to to Macedonia and link to North Macedonia. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:36, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Some other cleanup is in order as well. Some of our maps need to be updated with the new name: File:Macedonia regions map.png, File:Europe regions minimal cities.png, File:Balkans regions map.png, File:Greece WV region map EN.png, File:Albania Regions map.png, File:Kosovo Regions map.png, File:Serbia Regions map.png, and File:Bulgaria Cultural Regions Map.png, at least. We should also think about renaming Western Macedonia and Eastern Macedonia – should they be moved to Western North Macedonia and Eastern North Macedonia? See Talk:Western Macedonia. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Central Macedonia needs a rethink and discussion as a number of subregions and their city articles left without a parent region. --Traveler100 (talk) 19:02, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Does anyone have the technical know-how to deal with the maps listed above? I think all that is required is to edit the source SVG files (available on Commons) to change the text from "Macedonia" to "North Macedonia" and then convert them to new PNGs. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:52, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

I've updated the North Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania and Greece maps to reflect the new name. I'll work on the remaining ones over the next few days. -Shaundd (talk) 22:44, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@Shaundd: I'm happy to see that these are almost all finished – thanks! It seems the only one remaining is File:Europe regions minimal cities.png. —Granger (talk · contribs) 03:37, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

@Mx. Granger: I've done that one, see the original svg. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 03:45, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I see. Thanks! Then I think the cleanup from the North Macedonia move is finally finished! Thanks to everyone who participated. Next, on to Eswatini... —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I can work on Eswatini/Swaziland, too. It'll probably be this weekend though before I can get to it. -Shaundd (talk) 07:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Also Cabo Verde and Timor-Leste. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

I checked a couple of East Timor maps and they look like they're already good. For Eswatini, the following maps need to be updated: File:Swaziland Regions map.png, File:Map-Africa-Regions-Islands.png, File:Southern Africa new map.png, File:South Africa-Regions map.png, and File:Mozambique regions.png. For Cape Verde, File:Cabo Verde regions map.png is the only map I can find where the name in the map doesn't match the name of our article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 08:07, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Eswatini maps are updated now. Cheers -Shaundd (talk) 07:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Wonderful, thanks! —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:51, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Demonym and language

The people of North Macedonia are called "Macedonians", and its language, the Slavic one, is called "Macedonian". See here. Ground Zero (talk) 19:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

That makes sense, I assume you mean as opposed to the name "North Macedonians." What concerns me with the linked article, though, is that saying "between 60,000-600,000 people turned out to protest" is so broad that it really doesn't tell us much, except that a lot of people came. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:35, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions

Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 18:08, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:38, 28 December 2019 (UTC)