User talk:W. Frank/Green Zone

_{This was the nutshell current at 30 Sept 2012 copied from Wikivoyage:Policy outline}

Sock puppets: Nutshell: The creation of sockpuppets, i.e., multiple accounts per user, is discouraged because it obfuscates the identity of the contributor in contradiction with the general wiki principles of openness and transparency. Nonetheless, the travel guide does not enforce any rules regarding the creation of sockpuppets, opting instead to tolerate and ignore them. Since majority-rule voting is not employed on the travel guide, sockpuppets do not present much difficulty to site processes.; Note: Are admins required to declare alternative accounts?

-={*}=-
Please play fair!
All Wikivoyage community policies still apply here

Wikipedia

Hi Frank,

have you been working under the same name at Wikipedia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:W._Frank#Re_your_Sock_account\ Are you working here also with two accounts? Jc8136 (talk) 09:29, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

Unfortunately, he's same. --Saqib (talk) 10:25, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

Please confirm if you are the same user as User:Alice. Jc8136 (talk) 10:36, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

In response to this template, we asked a simple question regarding your account status. We're only asking you to declare any other users you may own. JamesA ^>talk 14:29, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

Yes, I worked exclusively (apart from IP edits) at Wikipedia as W. Frank.

No, I am not working here with two registered accounts.

No, I am not the same user as User:Alice - and neither was I at Wikipedia !

Unfortunately, because

I wish to continue to protect privacy of others (and especially their immediate families)
my own block at Wikipedia is currently under appeal

there are finite limits to what I can write here.

However, I am willing to discuss this on a confidential privileged basis with anyone who wishes to email me and provide their own real life details and contacts (phone, and fax if they wish Passports, voters rolls, etc, copied).

This gives some of the background to the (over-sighted) threats by Provisional IRA sympathisers, but omits to mention the "IRA team of editors and admins" discussion - which is also probably off-topic here as well.

Also, so as not to lie by omission, I am also 97% sure that I know the real life identities of both User:Alice here and [[User:(WT-en) Singapore.Alice]] at Wikitravel (and 99.9% sure they are the same individual), but I am deliberately refraining from confirming my suspicions by e-mail or phone call because I do not want to open a huge dustbin of worms!

User talk pages are primarily to be used for communication between community members to develop our project and, since

I have a suspicion that the exchanges on this topic will overwhelm all other topics on my talk page and
as per our specific policy referenced above, the exchanges on this topic are not likely in strict terms to be germane to our project

I would be grateful if you would make all future comment on this topic at: User talk:W. Frank/Green_Zone rather than here on my "normal" talk page.

For the avoidance of doubt, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User_talk:W._Frank/Green_Zone is also where I will shortly endeavour to archive both the current discussion and any future comments on this topic. --W. Frank^e-mail_talk 14:46, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

Frank, i don't care about what's going on at Wikipedia. That's your business. Nobody here at WV is interested in your real-life identity. Stick to one identity and everybody is fine. Jc8136 (talk) 15:30, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

I agree with Jan. --Saqib (talk) 15:52, 1 October 2012 (CEST)

Clarification

If

I ever bother to confirm my suspicions and
They turn out to be correct and
User:Alice (or any other registered user) then uses my computer (albeit they would need to log me off my account and then use a "Guest" account) or my wireless internet connection here in Glasgow

do I then "become" a Sockpuppet of that other registered user (or vice versa - the allegations at WP were seriously confusing)?

I need to clarify here that I am not writing here about me giving instructions to User:Alice's "fingers" so that User:Alice is just a robotic human agent used for purposes of deception to speak to, or about myself while pretending to be another person or to praise, defend or support a third party or organization or support a particular stance.

The reason I seek this clarification is that (if I ever bother to confirm my suspicions and they turn out to be correct) I need to know whether I would then need to specifically try and forbid the (then revealed) User:Alice from either using any computer I have ever used myself or any internet connection I have ever used myself (problematic since my TalkTalk IP is a shared one, as is Glasgow's Mitchell Library computer)?

To me the test of socketpuppetry has always been which human being's fingers are actually doing the typing (provided it is not a "dictation" or "conspiracy to deceive" situation - ie two independently functioning and physically separate human brains providing the intellectual input) and NOT the physical computer, smart phone (or other device) used or the IP identity.

Again to clarify using a very far-fetched hypothetical example:

Registered user User:(WT-en) B at Wikivoyage, visits registered user User:(WT-en) A dangerously ill in hospital with her Smartphone.

User:(WT-en) B is then asked by User:(WT-en) A to hand over her Smartphone to User:(WT-en) A.

User:(WT-en) B complies and User:(WT-en) A, although physically relatively incapacitate, logs on to her registered user account User:(WT-en) A at Wikivoyage and begins to write in User talk space.

User:(WT-en) A then discovers she is too weak to continue to sit up and type (but not too weak to dictate text to User:(WT-en) B) and hands the Smartphone back to User:(WT-en) B without logging out of her account. User:(WT-en) A then dictates a message to User:(WT-en) B.

User:(WT-en) B types accurately and wholly at User:(WT-en) A's dictation and command. When finished, User:(WT-en) B hands the Smartphone back to User:(WT-en) A so that she can read and approve what User:(WT-en) B has typed and then, when any corrections and amendments have been typed, logs out of User:(WT-en) A's account.

In the (very far-fetched hypothetical) situation described above I would NOTdescribe either User:(WT-en) A or User:(WT-en) B as being either a Sockpuppet or Meatpuppet of the other since there is only one independently functioning and physically separate human brain (that of User:(WT-en) A) providing the intellectual input that results in the consequent message.

Is that also your understanding of meaning here?

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