Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile/2008

2007 DotM slush pile for 2008 (current) 2009

This article is chock-full of detail and has a Guide status. It deserves to be Star, especially by this coming January, which is when "The American Idol Experience" will open.

  • Discuss -- carefully. The article is terrific, no doubt about that, and it stands on its own merits. However, it is a radical departure from our usual DotM practice to feature a privately-owned resort with a single, commercial operator. I'm not sure that disqualifies Disney World -- it certainly does meet the criteria for "destination" -- but let's not rush into this one without thinking through the issues. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 13:18, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Support. The article is excellent, and I don't see a problem with featuring it it's clearly a valid article, and so it's OK for DOTM in my book. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:10, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Support. It's a great article, and I'm sure it'll be Star by the time it's featured as DotM. Walt Disney World is well-known enough, and the article is well-written enough, that I feel comfortable going against precedent. --(WT-en) Tally talk 23:10, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Support. Great article. I'll agree with Janias long as it meets our article criteria, it should be allowable as a DotM/OtBP, regardless of the inherent weirdness of having a resort as our featured article. I'd give scheduling priority to more traditional DotM nominations, but I suppose this could be scheduled any time of the year (probably any time other than crowded summer would be best). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:20, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
Er, let me append that by saying that huge airports, despite meeting our article criteria, should definitely not every be featured. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:27, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
I wouldn't got that far -- I'd be happy to feature one if the article ever becomes star/guideworthy. I just don't see that happening though, because few Wikivoyagers are willing to put in the elbow grease for (say) documenting every restaurant in Heathrow... (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:42, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Don't Support for all the reasons listed by Bill-on-the-Hill (first comment). Personally having been there several times, and living 50mi(80km) from it, I can say this: it is expensive, very commercial, and lacking in any form of "culture". While it is indeed a great place to visit, it can be plagued by long lines on weekends, around Christmas/New Year, and all summer (April-September). My biggest concern is that there really isn't much culture involved except for Epcot and it's lake surrounded by representations of several nations (they also hire lots of diverse persons). The cost of such a trip should be considered too...the admission is high, food prices and snacks are expensive, shopping/stores on the premises are expensive, and anyone planning to stay at the resort should be prepared to pay a lot for a room. Also, if one considers the vicinity, Orlando and Kissimmee are somewhat lacking in culture (save a couple of VERY small enclaves of Indians and Vietnamese). While it is a great article and a great place to visit with children, I do not believe it is worthy of being a DotM for the preceding reasons. (WT-en) AHeneen 19:41, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure that anything you mentioned should disqualify it. It's a destination, one of the most popular travel destinations in the world, and it's one of the better articles we have on the wiki. Culture value doesn't disqualify an article from DotM status, and even if it did, there's a strong argument to be made that Disney World and its commercialism is a good representation of American culture, in all its excess. As for expense, that's not relevant; a lot of our featured destinations are rather expensive to visit. --(WT-en) Tally talk 14:35, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
Let me be clear that I was not "voting against" the article; I was simply saying that the issues need to be discussed, as is occurring. I still haven't decided whether I support this as a DotM or not, but the things I raised were intended as points to ponder rather than as show-stoppers. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 17:50, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Support Although i would not set my own feet there in a million years - it's a very nice article, and one of the worlds biggest tourist draws. (WT-en) Sertmann 08:33, 3 November 2008 (EST)
  • Don't Support. If we're going to expand this article with districts and whatnot -- which is something I'd like to get started on over the next few months -- I strongly suggest we wait before showcasing it as DotM. (WT-en) LtPowers 18:51, 8 December 2008 (EST)


This article is full of beautiful pictures and excellent detail of one of Europe's most unheard of tourist resorts, for the Westerners at least. Balatonfüred, Lake Balaton, has a beautiful charm and is one of Hungary's oldest Spa Towns. Surrounded by stunning countryside and mountains, yet still posessing a waterpark and an amazing town bustling with life, this surely is the destination of alifetime.

The Article has Guide Status and contains maps and indeed travel information.

Both maps in this article have been recommended for deletion on shared. Please address this issue there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:00, 4 September 2008 (EDT)

Both Maps have now been deleted, with a new legal one put in place.

Developing as one of major cities in Asia, Jakarta is one great destination. It has the best shopping destination as a lot of shopping centers were built in this city. Let's not forget about Ancol Dream Park, which consists of Dunia Fantasi (Fantasy world), Sea World, Ocean Park, beach, resort, hotel, and great restaurant. Personally, it's even better than Hong Kong Disneyland. Perfect weather comes in May through August.

  • Don't support, yet. While I do readily agree that Jakarta the city is better than Hong Kong Disneyland for example, Jakarta has far better street food, shopping malls and strippers Jakarta the article is in pretty poor shape. There's actually a lot of content in there, but the districting is really half-assed and much of it has been mangled by non-native speakers. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:57, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Not yet. While I wouldn't say it's half-assed, I mean, thats a little harsh in my books. It's hard work districting. Though, it needs more work and maybe just give it anotehr month and work on it;)! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 11:38, 3 November 2008 (EST).

Looks like a solid article. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 21:03, 27 November 2008 (EST).

  • Needs work. The sleep section for starters, anything that employs the {{style}} template probably isn't quite there yet (WT-en) cacahuate talk 02:02, 28 November 2008 (EST)
  • Needs work. What (WT-en) cacahuate said. Plus the Drink section is pretty inadequate. More than half of the section is things I put in there without even knowing the city all that well. There are tons and tons of bars and clubs there. Surely there are places worthy of recommendation other than the handful i happen to know. (WT-en) Texugo 02:06, 28 November 2008 (EST)
  • Needs work. That Sleep section, in particular, is a total mess. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:35, 28 November 2008 (EST)


A forever pristine environment, located well out of sight from Little Rock, Arkansas or Springfield, Missouri.

  • Not yet. The seeds of a very good OtBP are there, but it's awfully wordy, has barely sufficient Eat/Drink information, and needs some MoS work. (However, I wouldn't bother replacing the maps, even though they're out of compliance with our standards; they "work" because of the unusual nature of this destination.) A campaign to get the article cleaned up in time for spring 2009 would be well received. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 09:43, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

Great article, well balanced and especially July is the best time to visit since they have the Ohrid Summer Festival. (One of the best music events held under open skies in The Antique Theater overlooking the lake, is Aug 2nd).

" Archaeological finds indicate that Ohrid is one of the oldest human settlements in all of Europe. The lake itself is over three million years old. Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C.E., when it was known as Lychnidos - or, “the city of light.” ". Read it and experience it...

  • Support. I was there last year and this destination is "must-feel" in a life time, and the article is true to it.(WT-en) Hoh 18:18, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Support. Yes looks like a good article and the place seems unique and interesting, why not.
  • I Support it. Very interesting and objectively written article. Definitely support, go with it. But I noticed there are few good pictures in the article, do you think this is the best one to have on the main page? I am not sure, I could not put my finger on the best one.(WT-en) Celia 21:47, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Oppose. Looks like a lovely destination, but at first glance: the "get around" section is blank, "see" listings lack any directional or contact info, no "buy" listings, no address/directional info for "eat" listings, no "drink" listings, the Project:External links policy is violated numerous times, all listings should be listingified, "sleep" listings should have price listings, the photo gallery violates Project:Small city article template. Moreover, shoving this into the July slot without even waiting a week to see if anyone objects to this as the DotM was totally inappropriate, and against the rules set on this page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:25, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
    • Support These are minor structural changes that you are welcomed to go and make Peter. The article is however full of substance, is objective and easy to navigate and it will be a pity not to be featured in July when most events there happen. As for people being able to comment, it has been on the wikivoyage site for some time and people have modified it for a long time. There are "buys" listings and as I understand the listed places are well famous there, while street addresses not so much, so the name is more than enough. I think what one has to have in mind is that different places have different distribution of priorities and information and a good article should reflect that, as does this one.
      • No, those are not minor problems. This page is about showcasing good articles, not just nice places to go. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:42, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Oppose. First of all, you're only allowed to vote support once. Secondly, the article is ineligible for the reasons that Peter listed. Those are not "minor structural changes" - they're requirements. There's a lot of good writing in the article, but a lot of articles on this site have a lot of good writing - the ones we feature are the ones where someone has done the hard, boring work that's really useful to the traveler, like finding addresses and opening hours and prices. Since you keep promoting objectivity as a virtue of the article, you may wish to review Wikivoyage's Be fair and Tone. As I understand it, they're planning to include the month of July in 2009 as well, so you may be able to have it in shape by then. (Note that Mount Fuji has been in queue since April 2007.) (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 08:26, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Support I just explained at the Fuji section since it is just a matter of timing and both are good articles, lets have Ohrid in July and Mount Fuji in August. Ohrid Summer Festival in July looks great and the technical polishing I will try to do please join me. (WT-en) Miko 09:19, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Not yet. Interesting article, but it needs serious editing. (BTW, please sign your contributions to this discussion.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 11:44, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
    • Incidentally, once the concerns about readiness have been resolved, I see this more as OtBP than DotM. No town (as opposed to "park") that we have featured for DotM since the creation of OtBP has had a population as small as Ohrid's 42,000 (Wikipedia), and the "beaten path" in Macedonia lies elsewhere (e.g. Skopje). I could definitely see this article as OtBP for June 2009, once it's been cleaned up; that's exactly the right timing for the summer festival. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 13:46, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
      • On this point I do agree with the nominators -- Ohrid (the entire lake area, not just the town) is Macedonia's top draw and definitely the most destination-y place in a rather OtBP country. But this, too, should be sorted out better: is the article's focus the town of Ohrid or the region of Ohrid? (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:35, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Support. I have been in Ohrid few years ago and I know entire Skopje goes there in the summer, so it is definitely the "beaten path" in Macedonia. (Is Mount Fuji more populated than Ohrid?) What needs to be cleaned up to have it ready for July? Because as it stands now we have two mountain destinations, so to add diversity and accommodate that Ohrid is most interesting in July, I would also push for clean up changes in the Ohrid article and have it in July, and Mount Fuji in August. (WT-en) ElenaJ 16:17, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Not yet. It definitely has potential, but I also agree with everything Peter says above... once those things are fixed I'd support for OTBP in an appropriate season. Also, Elena/Hoh/Celia, etc, please stick to one user account, you aren't accomplishing anything by voting under multiple usernames (WT-en) cacahuate talk 17:11, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
To clarify on Cacahuate's point, we don't use majority rule voting on Wikivoyage, we work by consensus. Moreover, if you read that consensus article, you'll understand that simply voicing an opinion isn't relevant, you need to make arguments per policy or established practice. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:27, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
Word (WT-en) cacahuate talk 18:51, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

A stunning city that combines a truely Swiss stadt with a global and diverse capital city. Bern would be a flexible option because the city and the area has much to offer all year long. Article is complete in many categories however some headings with no comment should be deleted and maybe more photos could be added. But I definitely believe that Bern should be considered. --(WT-en) AZGSB9 18:06, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

  • Do not support -- strongly. We shouldn't be using "Usable" city articles for DotM. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 17:57, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Oppose, for the moment. Contentwise, I'd call the article a guide, but it does need some cleanup. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:02, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

A small, car free village set below the jaw-dropping Matterhorn is what Zermatt is. One must take a train or a helicopter to get here in the first place, but is it ever worth it. The truth is, there are many tourists here, but the fact that is isolated, picturesque, and has a very complete article makes this a very viable option for OtBT.

  • Not yet. This article has enormous potential (it's a great destination) but needs a great deal of de-touting and MoS work. "See" and "Do" both need a great deal of expansion, and details are needed on lodging -- without external links. I'd love to see it put into shape that we can consider it for OtBP, but it's a long way from that point. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:36, 30 November 2007 (EST)

I think this city could make it as a DotM and is definitely a super touristy area. Maybe May 09 or something? Thoughts? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 19:51, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Perhaps it could be a cotm first. Although Sydney is quite complete, just one level down at Sydney/City, Sydney/The Rocks, and Sydney/Chinatown it is decidedly bare... Also if I had to pick a time to showcase it, it would be the southern spring. rather than winter, so maybe a September target.. --(WT-en) Inas 21:28, 16 November 2008 (EST)
Alright, you'd have time to work for that, that's for sure! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 23:35, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Looking over Quebec City, it looks like it would be a fantastic DotM. I would probably say for WInter time. Either 08-2009 winter or 2009-10 winter. What do you think ? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 12:32, 17 November 2008 (EST). February has the Carnaval so that'd be interesting. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 13:54, 17 November 2008 (EST).

  • Don't support. It looks like a lovely place, and the guide is pretty decent, but some of the See and Do listings seem rather lacking. Besides, an article has to be at least "guide" status before it can be DotM. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 13:08, 19 November 2008 (EST)
Oh boy I always for get to look for the status....errgh! Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 13:51, 19 November 2008 (EST).
  • Don't support, yet. I think it'll be a great DotM someday, but still needs some work. There must be some good restaurants outside of the Old Town and the Get out section could be better. A map would be nice too (at least of the Old Town)! (WT-en) Shaund 00:52, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Would make a cool Summer destination, or maybe winter. Lush mountains, big population, liveable downtown, Aspen, etc. What do you think-Aug 09 or Nov 09? Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 21:33, 18 November 2008 (EST).

  • Do not support. This has a lot of work to do yet. As much of the city's attractiveness stems from its proximity to knockout outdoors stuff, that outdoors stuff should be described by high-quality articles before the city itself is featured. Many of the in-town listings are rather perfunctory as well. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 09:12, 19 November 2008 (EST)
Adding on to what Bill said, Denver is still at "usable". An article has to be at least "guide" to be DotM. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 13:04, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Don't know Tokyo very well but it looks like it'd be a good article. I presume this city would be best anytime or during summer. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 18:33, 20 November 2008 (EST).

Not sure about this one, while the main article is probably up to standard, some of districts are in a sorry state, and not something I would want to showcase. And one more thing of note, I can't think of any other city where district maps is more important than in Tokyo - As anyone who has ventured into this - the greatest of all urban jungles - will testify; for the most part you're simply not going to find a place unless you have it plotted on a map. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 19:28, 20 November 2008 (EST)
Hehehehe, well we'll see some more opinions ;). Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 19:30, 20 November 2008 (EST).
Don't support. I agree with Shaund: the Tokyo districts are highly uneven in quality (and even their borders are suspect, see the long but abortive redistricting discussion on Talk:Tokyo), and the lack of maps is major issue. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)
Stefan. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 00:19, 21 November 2008 (EST).

The other Caucasus nations have had a town featured (Sheki, Azerbaijan & Gori, Georgia). To me, the only negative thing about the article is that the "see" and "do" sections are just lists of places with short descriptions...could elaborate a bit more. It is also only a "useable" article...MoS? -- (WT-en) AHeneen 23:42, 22 November 2008 (EST)

  • Don't support. That article has come a long way, but it lacks a single buy listing, and none of the listings have addresses. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:15, 23 November 2008 (EST)
Which is a pitty, cause it's a mighty fine article --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:46, 23 November 2008 (EST)


Has improved by leaps and bounds since being COTWed. The only accessible season is Nov-March. (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:13, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Not yet. I can't imagine an OtBP that doesn't have "See" and "Do" sections, particularly one where "seeing" is really the main reason for going there. That needs to be fixed. Incidentally, the lead time for preparing for Antarctic travel is so long that I could easily see the article featured as early as August or so, even though you'd normally never dream of going there then. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 19:20, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
I think we'll get Antarctica up to DotM status by the end of the CotMI'll cast a vote then. I've particularly been meaning to get rid of other destination sections and roll them all into see. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:40, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
I second that...this should be a DotM, not an OtBP article! (WT-en) AHeneen 21:11, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
  • In a few months if it gets edited a little bit further, then yes. It should be DotM though.(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 14:54, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
  • This seems like the very definition of "off the beaten path". Why would it be DotM? (WT-en) LtPowers 13:30, 7 November 2008 (EST)
I'd call this a DotM too. We don't have a very clear consensus on what makes an article either dotm or otbp, but my sense is that the most important thing is the obscurity, rather than the inaccessibility of the destination. Our main goal with the otbps is to showcase our ability to cover destinations that ordinary travel guides never would due to their obscurity (and there are plenty guides to Antarctica). As a matter of fact, since the LP guide is 380 pages, that makes me kind of loathe to support this article as it currently isI think it needs more research. So: Don't support. Hopefully we can build this up and nominate it again in the future. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:06, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I don't entirely agree with the part about "obscurity" vice "inaccessibility." Quite a number of our OtBPs have been places that are reasonably well known, just far enough from the main arteries that it requires some effort to go there. OTOH, your point about the LP guide is utterly compelling; we are probably never going to get this article to a state where it really shows off Wikivoyage, in contrast to the other OtBP possibilities. Accordingly, I'm changing my vote to do not support. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 17:04, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Lovely in the Spring! (WT-en) Raffikojian 19:20, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Pretty good so far, no doubt about that for sure! But it is useable (or Usable for you Americans :P) and needs to be Guide or Star. Also, some sections are empty (or contain little information) that should be fille,d most definately ;)! So, since you say it's so good in the spring, why don't you set a goal. Try and get all this done, or get other help by at the latest February, then nominate again for maybe April or May or something of the like:)! Don't you worry, you have time and you don't need to do much. I hope to see this on the front page in the next year :)! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:25, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Do not support. It's certainly emerging as a fine article, but not there yet, and we should also resolve whether the area being covered fits the size criterion at the top of this page -- articles on overly large regions are generally disparaged as DotMs and OtBPs. That one can be debated, but for now, I have some doubts. (And yes, I get the incongruity of this complaint right below the Antarctica nomination, but that one's kind of a special case.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:33, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Major touristy area and could be done anytime of the year. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .t.a.l.k. 12:51, 17 November 2008 (EST).

  • I'm kind of wondering if I can comment on whether I like it or not. Well, just to try-I support. Looks "luvvy juvvy." Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 16:39, 19 November 2008 (EST).
  • Don't support. It's a cool destination, but... the article is only usable, there aren't a whole lot of addresses or directions in the listings and I'm a bit worried there is only one listing in the See section (this is one of the most beautiful spots in the country, after all!). I'm also not sure if this is OtBP or DotM material. It's a small place, but according to Wikipedia, it's tied with Calgary for getting the most visits in the province, plus it's a popular spot on a lot of coach and backpacker tours. Perhaps it would be better to bundle it up with the National Park, Jasper, the Icefields Parkway, etc and do a Canadian Rockies or Alberta Rockies DotM when all the articles are ready? (WT-en) Shaund 01:22, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Looks pretty good, and though small is home to a lot of really neat tourist spots. Most notably crazy horse and mt rushmore. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 14:05, 17 November 2008 (EST).

  • Do not support. Only at usable status, and for good reasonit's not nearly comprehensive enough to do justice to the city, and almost none of the listings have sufficient contact information. Also, the city itself isn't very interestingthe surrounding areas are the main draws. I'd rather see us put up Badlands National Park, but it too is not up to dotm/otbp standards yet. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:52, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Good point. Maybe a CotM. Thanks. Your a pal! Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 14:54, 18 November 2008 (EST)!