Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile/2011

2010 DotM slush pile for 2011 (current) 2012

Article status: guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: anytime
Nominated by: --(WT-en) AHeneen 01:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Comment: see blurb below

Nomination

Somebody please write it!

I've given some love to this article by updating, formatting/cleaning up, and adding history. An interesting destination for the most seasoned of travelers, you could make a case for it as OtBP--few tourists (mostly military, businessmen, & redevelopment people), it's close to a war zone (and thus perceived as dangerous and off the beaten track), and it has a history of isolation & war (including much of the past 30 years)--but I have nominated it as DotM because despite its historical isolation it is a name recognized by most Westerners as Afghanistan's capital, number of visitors is high despite low number of tourists, it is rather safe despite its proximity to war zones to the south (towards Kandahar) & east (towards Jalalabad), and it is a large city and a regional center of culture and trade. The first 2 arguments for were brought up in discussions(Nov 08) over the nomination of Riyadh as a DotM.

The article is not perfect, as I struggled to find addresses or locations of some of the "see" listings I wonder whether much of Kabul has much of a street numbering system (even the US embassy does not list a number in describing there location). So one of two things needs to be done: some of you could help find out locations or we could just leave it as is and assume taxi drivers know where these places are and how to get there. A recent map would be nice along with more info to fill the "orientaion" section (or else it can be removed) and another thing I couldn't find was info for "Get in/By bus"...a simple note of where bus stations are is all that's needed. Aside from these couple of small problems, the article is a beauty and I'm going ahead with nominating it so it can get a decent spot in line to fill summer DotM slots. May-August seems like the appropriate window for Kabul. (WT-en) AHeneen 01:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)

  • Support A great article, except for a few things which need to be cleaned up as mentioned above. (WT-en) AHeneen 01:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support. I'm rather amazed at the quality of this article! I agree that it should be featured as a DotM for the reasons you outline above. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 07:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support This is a nice article for an interesting city. Some minor things that I'd add to be worked on: The Bagh-e Zanana is a place where only women can enter, right? It says "dedicated to women", which is awkward English, so if it means what I suspect it means, the wording should be changed (even if it doesn't, the wording could be clearer). The Bagh-e Bala should probably have some information about it (history, significance, the usual). Stadiums and cinemas are "Do"s, right? Also, "Money" probably shouldn't be its own heading. I'll make it a sub-heading of "Buy". (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 15:46, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Yes, the park is women-only according to its Wikipedia article. I guess I overlooked a couple of things, feel free to add info...I'll see when I have time if I can fill in some more info. (WT-en) AHeneen 23:07, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Okay, I've added some info for Bagh-e Bala and moved the stadium and cinema to the "Do" section. I also added content to the Bagh-e Zanana BUT most of the content came from this website: The information is interesting, but I posted it in case someone wanted to challenge the info. I don't have any personal knowledge about the city, so if the article reeks of political agenda and seems false, feel free to get rid of the info and add a better description! (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support wow, nice work, i have also considered nominting Mogadishu for a while, since it's one of our most loved articles, if twitter is anything to go for, but I've no idea how to push it the last stretch. This one is already there, very good content. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:49, 14 November 2009 (EST)
If it is even possible to get it to guide status, given the difficulty of getting info about the city. How about Hargeisa, also in Somalia but DRASTICALLY safer, easier to visit, and very inviting to tourists. I read quite a bit about tourism in Kurdistan (Iraq) and looked through all its city articles, but only a couple (Dahuk & Arbil) were even at outline status and I knew I could not find enough info to bring them up to OtBP status. I would love to see some more articles from off-the-beaten-path countries. (WT-en) AHeneen 23:07, 14 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support Very good work. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:52, 19 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support This article is great and offers a DotM that most people would rule out as a travel destination. (WT-en) jan 03:27, 20 November 2009 (EST)
  • Maybe.... good work on the history section, that was much needed! However most of the listings in this article, especially the eat listings, were added years ago and I suspect are fairly outdated.... but I don´t know for sure. I worked on the few that I visited when I was there 3 years ago, but that wasn´t many. Also, for a destination such as this I think a good map is essential.... enough so that I would probably withold support until it has one. Re the question above about addresses, I don´t remember them being particularly relavent.... I don´t think taxi drivers use them much.... and I recall paying much more attention to intersections and dots on maps than addresses. Also about the bus stations.... I recall Kabul as fantastically complicated to get in and out of.... there are departure points scattered all over the place with minibuses headed to various locales.... tell a taxi driver where you want to go and he´ll take you to where the buses depart.... and probably get it wrong at least once (WT-en) cacahuate talk 22:55, 19 December 2009 (EST)
Remarkably, OSM has good coverage of Kabul! It shouldn't be hard at all to put up a basic import, but someone other than me will need to choose what part of the city needs to be covered in the map. Better to do that at Talk:Kabul. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:30, 20 December 2009 (EST)
Still no map, I won't be able to do it, but can give a little feedback and guidance to anyone else who is willing on Talk:Kabul (WT-en) cacahuate talk 03:03, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
  • Object strongly. Does anyone else look at Kabul in the dotm blurb above and want to laugh? That on our front page is pretty much a joke. Still no map, in a city that I would say requires one more than any other destination we've ever featured. Many listings are almost certainly outdated. I also think that if it is improved and thus featured it should be OTBP (forgive me for not noticing and bringing that up earlier). (WT-en) cacahuate talk 03:00, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
  • Support, but it should be an OtBP. --(WT-en) Tiagox2 09:33, 16 December 2010 (EST)
  • Oppose, it's a warzone. Besides, the information is probably outdated. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 19:16, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
I think "warzone" is a stretch when applied to Kabul. It's one of the safest cities, in an admittedly unsafe country, and is filled with foreigners. I'm working on a map that should knock a sock off or two, and will try to get the information refreshed in the coming weeks. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:35, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
I know tourists go there, and Kabul is one of the safer areas of Afghanistan, but making it a DoTM? I still think it's an odd idea. Security issues can change overnight. We should be weary sending travelers to places like this, while at the same time warning them for life-threanening danger. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 22:41, 3 September 2011 (EDT)
  • Strongly object, I think the listing of things to see and do is not complete. Things to see: be witness of a suicide attack. Thinks to do: get abducted in broad daylight and have the experience of your life! Make Kabul Destination of the Month and Wikivoyage will be Joke of the Year. --(WT-en) Whatsinaname 20:02, 20 July 2011 (EDT)
  • Don't support. We should not be encouraging tourism to an occupied country at war. At most, I'd suggest making it an OtBP. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:44, 8 August 2011 (EDT)
  • Maybe OtBP, but definitely not DOTM now. Kabul is an interesting city, used to be a major stop on the overland route to India; the place itself would be fine as DOTM in other circumstances. The article itself looks close as well; Cacahuate's comments above have what seem to be valid objections, but those could be dealt with. However, it seems to me that recommending it as a destination now would be insane. It is certainly safer than some other places in Af, but not safe enough to recommend. (WT-en) Pashley 00:02, 9 September 2011 (EDT)

Again, I don't now if it should be an OtBP or a DotM, but seems like a nice article. --2.80.122.99 14:16, 25 January 2011 (EST)

  • Don't Support The "see" section could probably have more and certainly should have more to say about the museum and the "Do" section is mostly just a list. The "Sleep" section is not formatted correctly. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:02, 26 January 2011 (EST)
  • Don't Support - So many things wrong with it. Needs some serious formatting and detouting. I'm putting a style notice on it and downgrading it from guide. Probably should be slushed too. - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 22:26, 3 September 2011 (EDT)

Very nice city article. --188.81.189.10 06:21, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

  • Needs work I removed it from the schedule because the articles needs work to fit our requirements. Maybe summer 2011 is better to allow the needed changes. (WT-en) jan 10:31, 24 January 2011 (EST)
  • Not yet I agree with Jc. Many restaurant and bar listings still lack addresses and telephone numbers. But once that's remedied, the rest of the article looks good. I think it's very close to being ready. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:05, 8 August 2011 (EDT)

Nice guide of an austrian city. --2.80.109.50 12:35, 14 October 2010 (EDT)

Not yet It's on its way but some of the see listings are incomplete and the whole needs a thorough tidy up. - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 10:33, 31 May 2011 (EDT)
  • Not yet, needs quite some listingifying done before it's ready. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:50, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

Nice guide article. --188.81.111.95 16:27, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Not yet - The info is quite complete, writing is ok (could be tighter), but the formatting needs work. I'm confused why it is districtified but doesn't have separate district pages. The map doesn't entirely follow the WT style. The info box placements are inconsistent. The See text looks very dense. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 10:33, 31 May 2011 (EDT)
Don't support - totally agree with Cardboardbird. Formatting needs a lot of work, and the whole districts subsection should be removed (as the city doesn't contain districts as of now). --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:04, 31 May 2011 (EDT)

Probably one of the nicest cities in the world where the people are so friendly. It's a great city for sight-seeing, shopping and if you want to get out of the hustle and bustle of city life, the beautiful Irish countryside is only a short drive away. I've never been in a city where the people are so friendly and you can experience a true Irish welcome there. The best time to visit is anytime really, though i would recommend the months of March - September where the weather is slightly better making your visit even more special.

  • Don't Support This article has a Style Tag that is rightfully there. It needs formatted listings outside the "See" section, and many sections need to be presented better and made less wordy. There are a lot of really long paragraphs that I think could be made more precise or reworded. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 22:46, 28 May 2011 (EDT)
  • Don't Support Not yet anyway. The style tags still remain and no progress on fixing yet. I'd say slush it till it at least the style issues are addressed. - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 21:46, 3 September 2011 (EDT)

Surprisingly detailed article for the depths of France (or should it go to DotM instead?) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 02:45, 26 July 2010 (EDT)

  • Not Yet There are a lot of listings, but they need to bee formatted properly. Right now it is more of a list of attractions with external links rather than an independent guide. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:10, 26 July 2010 (EDT)

(WT-en) Anne has put a bunch of work into this guide lately, and I think it looks pretty great. It's a world heritage site and Guatemala's top city destination, so I think it would be fine dotm material.

Wow! This looks good! Is there a more appropriate place to put the "laundry" information aside from the Buy section? It really doesn't seem to belong there. 58.191.155.98 04:51, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
It's normally a "Cope" topic, and I see that someone has moved it there. Support. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 14:19, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Support And again, nice to see dotm/otbp ready guides, outside our "core" areas' of North America and Asia. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 08:45, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Almost support. It is looking pretty good and has a ton of listings, but the see section is very weak, and should be one of the strongest. The article could also use a serious copyedit and a small beating with the MoS stick (WT-en) cacahuate talk 17:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
Update: needs even more cleanup after today's verbose additions (WT-en) cacahuate talk 21:27, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, a lot of work has been put into the article post-nomination, which has added good content, but has also mangled the English and some of the structural style. It shouldn't take that much work to get this back up to a DotM level of polish, but that work should be done before we feature it. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
I tried to work on MoS items. I posted a thought about currency usage on the discussion page and changed most entries to local currency but left some in USD since some prices/locations seem to accept USD quite easily.(WT-en) Zepppep 13:34, 21 January 2010 (EST)
  • Support anew. I've restored this nomination from the slush pile, as I think Zepppep has resolved the outstanding issues, and this looks like it will be a good feature! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:44, 21 January 2010 (EST)
Hmm... The "See" section still isn't Wikified. It lists worthwhile places ("La Catedral, el Palacio de los Gobernadores, Convento de Capuchinas, Convento de Santa Clara, el Arco de Santa Catarina, Iglesia La Merced and the Handcrafts Market") but shouldn't they each then be given their own listing? They are kind of glazed over, but if someone were to visit using our guide, I imagine they would want that extra information. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:34, 22 January 2010 (EST)
  • Tentative support, as it is an interesting guide to a popular destination. But I would like to see some more work done on it. The first half looks a bit like an essay and would benefit from some sub-sections. A history sub-section is a glaring ommision from understand, when the destination is all about history. Most of the existing understand section could go into an orientation sub-section. Get in needs some categorisation. Perhaps split into "from the airport", "from Guatemala City" etc? I would support ChubbyWimbus' point about formalising attractions in the see section. Get out is very long and not really in line with the stated purpose of that section. All easy to put right I think. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:50, 22 January 2010 (EST)
  • Slushed. This article has been in need of very obvious work for a long time and nothing has happened. Indeed it has deteriorated. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:20, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

Really nice little article which I saw for the first time today. Well-written and seemingly complete. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:05, 10 August 2011 (EDT)

  • Not sure. While well-written, I am not sure if this even constitutes an article. The VFD discussion seems rigged by false voters. I think we'd first need to think about where the boundaries lie before we showcase such an article on the frontpage. But if there is community consensus that this is a valid article, then I could support it. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 00:10, 4 September 2011 (EDT)
  • The voting including keep recommendations from a number of regular Wikivoyageers, as well as very obvious rigging. If it is a valid article, then it's of good enough quality to feature here. On the other hand, I was not around when that debate took place and the more I think about it, I might well have voted for delete...... hmmm. I would actually like to withdraw this nomination.--(WT-en) burmesedays 00:28, 4 September 2011 (EDT)
  • Slushed. Slushed by the nominator. I had a rush of blood. Not an appropriate feature article.--(WT-en) burmesedays 11:00, 4 September 2011 (EDT)