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Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile/2013

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Place: World Heritage Sites Tour in Sri Lanka
Blurb: (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: April 2014
Nominated by: Saqib (talk) 16:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: April 18th is the International Day For Monuments and Sites and I think this article is appropriate to feature as "Featured travel topic" for the month of April.
Nomination
  • Support I think this is a good enough itinerary and as nominator and the main contributor of the article. If there's anything you think is missing, I'd be happy to know and fix. --Saqib (talk) 16:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet. What's in the article so far is good, but more information is needed and the article needs to be organized better. Try fleshing out the "Prepare" section by giving the reader an idea how much time will be required for the whole trip and at each site (I realize much of this information is listed under "Go", but IMO that section should be reserved for describing the sites themselves and should be organized in a day-by-day manner: Day 1, visit Site A; reserve Days 2 and 3 for travel; Day 4, visit Site B and maybe check out Attraction C that's in the same town, etc.)
I'd also add a "Get in" section giving at least a brief summary of how people from outside Sri Lanka can get to the country: where should they fly in to? How expensive are tickets? Which nationalities need a visa, and which ones only need a passport? For how long are visas valid? How difficult are they to get?
"Eat" and "Sleep" sections with brief overviews about the kind, quality, and prices of food and lodging available along the route would be nice too.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:01, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Text that should be inside the "Prepare" section can be moved from "Go" section and Sri Lanka and Colombo articles already mention how to get in. For "Eat" and "Sleep" sections, I think they're not necessary since all the sites in my itinerary have their own articles and contains the "Eat" and "Sleep" listings. --Saqib (talk) 17:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding "Get in", "Eat", and "Sleep", you probably don't need to go into quite as much detail as there is in Sri Lanka and Colombo. A general summary should be fine. But generally speaking, we prefer not to force readers to search over multiple articles for information that's essential for one destination, itinerary, topic etc. in particular. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Good work so far, and sounds like an impressive itinerary. I agree with Andre about the general information for eat and sleep. The destinations have articles, but most of them are outlines and some have no information about eating or sleeping at all - so basic info is needed. I also think it would be good to mention whether it's usually easy to just find a hotel when you're there, or if you should book ahead (or maybe only in high-season?). Also, there should be at least a little bit of information about what's to see for each place, or what it is exactly. Of course for details you can use the link to Unesco, but a few lines would be good for the article, I think. Lastly, I think the article should either be labelled as a bus tour, or it should say whether there are alternative ways for transport. For example, is it easy to rent a car and drive around yourself, in Sri Lanka? JuliasTravels (talk) 22:40, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I agree with the others, for now, but I think this is very close to being a good feature article. As Andre says above, we wouldn't want individual "Eat," "Buy," or "Sleep" listings in this article, but a summary of the types of food, accommodations, and medicines (just in case) that are available, plus a mention of any regional specialities of the areas covered in the article would be nice. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think a World Heritage Site tour should definitely give information about the sites themselves. What will be seen and why is it special/important? Why is it a World Heritage Site? Maybe that information could be added in a similar format to the "Regional Highlights" in the Japan's Top 100 Cherry Blossom Spots article. It's hard to get pulled into a tour that is almost completely logistical. Information about the sites is important I think. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 07:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please feel free to throw this in the slush pile. --Saqib (talk) 15:03, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Done -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:57, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Place: Berne
Blurb: How many cities are both capitals of their country and UNESCO World Heritage sites? (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Guessing here: Any time but winter? Or is it near good skiing?
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:42, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: An informative and well-illustrated article about a small city that is nevertheless capital of a wealthy and picturesque country.
Nomination
  • Support This article lacks a map and a "climate" subsection, but it is a good article, per my "comment" above. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet Informative and I love Bern as a destination, but for me this article has a few too many holes to feature it like this. Sure, it meets the basic city guide requirements, but it would be too much to say that Not only would you not need to consult another guide, you'd really have no reason to want to: it's all here.. For me, a historic city guide like Bern should at least list the most obvious historic buildings you'll encounter when strolling through the city centre. Several major sights like the Cathedral (the biggest one in the country), the french church, the Prison Tower and the House of Parliament (granted, not in the centre itself, but still), aren't listed. Hardly a word about the characteristic rooftops and the many pretty fountains that are considered so characteristic. Also, the information about getting in is very general, I would say, with for rail just a link to the (German only) external site and no information on regional bus services, no information on prices and transfer times for e.g. the park and ride options etc. No practical cope or connect information (internet, post office, tourist information office). All in all, I think this article could use some extra attention to make it a really good guide. JuliasTravels (talk) 14:02, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that this article is not ready for prime time. However, I'd remind JuliasTravels that while the "Not only would you not need to consult another guide, etc." clause is policy, this really isn't the place to dispute whether it applies to a particular guide-or-better article. In cases like this, you should go to Talk:Berne and argue for demoting it from Guide to Usable. On top of all that, the wording of that clause is entirely subjective and open to interpretation (and I'd describe JuliasTravels' interpretation as far too strict). It should really be replaced with something a little more concrete. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then let me remind AndreCarrotflower (pffft tone...) that he is just interpreting my comments, and incorrectly at that :-) I have no wish to demote this guide, haven't suggested it, and the policy isn't clear at all. But I do think when we actually feature destinations, they should be fairly good guides, ideally good enough to go there for a couple of days with our guide and not need to buy another one. In general, our guide articles pretty much allow for that. For featured articles I think it's a nice and practical rule of thumb. Is that subjective? Sure. This whole voting procedure is. If you have other and better reasons to find this article "not ready for prime time", you're invited to add those. This was just my two cents. JuliasTravels (talk) 20:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Traditionally, simply being at guide status is usually considered sufficient for featuring. In fact, that's kind of the meta-definition of "guide status": suitable for being featured on the main page. LtPowers (talk) 00:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry that JuliasTravels felt that I was "invalidating her opinion", as she wrote on her edit summary. She and I feel the same way about the article; I only wanted to point out that the clause she quoted - "not only would you not need to consult another guide, you'd really have no reason to want to: it's all here" - is part of our policy on what constitutes Guide articles, not our policy on Destination of the Month candidates. It's true that an article needs to be at least at Guide status to be eligible for DotM, but in invoking the "not only would you" clause as an argument against featuring the article, Julias is skipping a step. Even without being so unnecessarily nitpicky as to say that without demoting the article it still technically qualifies for DotM, the fact still remains that an article's status ought to reflect its content as accurately as possible. If we really feel that Berne, or any article, doesn't fit the parameters of Guide status, why would we vote it down for DotM but not demote the article itself?
Better still: what we really need, as LtPowers and I myself hinted at earlier in this thread, is to conform the de jure guidelines for what makes an article Guide-status to the guidelines we use de facto. LtPowers' "meta-definition" is not written anywhere in policy, but it makes perfect sense. And if that's the definition we actually use, policy ought to be revised to reflect that.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's probably inevitable that there will be some articles classified as "Guide" that, when looked at with a fine-toothed comb after being nominated for a front-page feature, will be found to have MoS problems are even substantive problems. It may be good to be more stingy in awarding articles Guide status, but the fact is that we often approve articles for a feature and then spend time improving them greatly before they actually run. I'm not sure where the best place would be to continue this policy discussion, the talk page for DotM or the talk page for Guide articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:01, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As I understood it, this is just a discussion about featuring articles or not. I don't care enough about all the vague WV policies to start discussions about demoting any particular article to fit policy. If someone else does, they should go ahead and take the discussion further on the article talk page, I don't want to and don't feel I have to at all. My point was simply that this article doesn't seem ready to be featured. I don't think it's nitpicking, we're talking basic stuff like information on the main sights and how to get in. I don't think you can expect editors to be exactly aware of which parts of which policies others here use and don't use, de facto. If you don't like me quoting policy, you should indeed try to change that policy, rather than reproach me for using it. I'll strike the quote, if you prefer, but it really doesn't change anything about the issues or conclusions. I'd recommend anyone to go to Berne though, it's a delightful city :-) JuliasTravels (talk) 21:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The problem, if it's even fair to say there is one, is that any guide article should be considered "good enough" to feature on the main page. Period. If it's not good enough to feature, then it's not good enough to be a guide. If it's legitimately guide-quality, then there's no valid quality-based reason to avoid featuring it. LtPowers (talk) 23:21, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Go ahead and demote the article to Usable status if you think that's justified. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Place: Blackpool
Blurb: Reborn from an Edwardian working-class retreat into a modern resort, this is a seaside paradise where Brits can have fun in the sun (or rain). (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Summer's probably best for a seaside resort such as this, but Autumn and Winter both see the 'world-famous' illuminations.
Nominated by: Nick talk 21:59, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: A nice little article about Britain's premier seaside resort that I've had a little tinker with. It covers the main features, has a little whimsy to it and features lots of nice sunny pictures. I also like to think that, if featured, we might be able to get the Tourist Board on side as well. It's my first nomination (where's my medal?) so please be gentle. :)
Nomination
  • Support, with reservations. I'd like to see the "See" and "Eat" sections expanded substantially.
Provided this article receives sufficient support, I envision making the executive decision to place Madison in the OtBP column rather than DotM (despite the vigorous debate I tried several times to spark, few opinions have been forthcoming on that question), move Nagoya to September (August is a bit hot in that part of the world), and slot Blackpool in for August.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:45, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On another subject entirely, is there any particular reason why this article uses the old style of external links? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:47, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withholding support for now, pending enlargement of "Eat" and perhaps "Buy." When there are a few more listings, I will support. I continue to strongly dissent on Madison as OtBP.Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:41, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Place: Dakar
Blurb: Dakar is the cultural and commercial capital of French-speaking West Africa (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct until June
Nominated by: jan (talk) 15:21, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Africa is underrepresented in our list
Nomination

[[File:Africanrenaissance.JPG|thumb|300px]]

  • Support I know usable is below our requirement but good work is done and I think we are very close to Guide. Dakar is a vibrant city and especially the World Music scene is growing fast. Would be perfect for late spring/early summer 2014. jan (talk) 15:21, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per one of the very few hard-and-fast, non-negotiable rules we have for DotM, I'm going to withhold support for this article until it's promoted to Guide status. That being the case, I'm unsure why this isn't already a Guide. It's well-written and, in my estimation, given the underrepresentation of Africa on the Main Page as mentioned by its nominator, it's ripe for featuring as soon as it's officially promoted to Guide status. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:45, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment My main hesitation to upgrade imediately is the Eat/Drink section. As stated on the talk page, most places don't have homepage and only the bigger ones are on Google+ or Facebook. Also adress is a nightmare because there are no real one, rather descriptions. jan (talk) 11:21, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not Sure I hestitate to support this mainly because nearly all of the "See" and "Do" listings were added by myself (with some descriptions updated) and I've never been to Senegal. I'm not sure that I trust I was able to find all that there is to do here never having been there myself and knowing how terrible coverage of African destinations is online. Some of the locations still need descriptions, also. It looks like the updates have come from someone who has been there. Can it be verified that the city has no other museums, galleries, gardens, historic sites, places of architectural interest, etc.? —The preceding comment was added by ChubbyWimbus (talk • contribs)
Hmmm...Well, based on this remark, I'm not sure whether I should continue to support featuring this guide anymore. We need someone who knows the city to look over the guide and pass judgment on it. Take Berne by analogy: I thought the guide to that city was very good, but that's because I've never been to Berne; those who know the city consider the article to be only questionably of guide status because of what it's missing. So I think I'm going to conditionally (and, I hope, temporarily) retract my support for featuring this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Place: Arusha
Blurb: With a refreshing climate and an ideal location at the foot of lovely Mount Meru, "A-Town" is the gateway to Tanzania's popular Northern Safari Circuit. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Anytime, but preferably Northern Hemisphere winter
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:56, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The newest month to appear on our schedule grid is December 2013, so it's time to start thinking in terms of warm-weather and Southern Hemisphere destinations again. Here's an article I stumbled upon that's pretty good and could be made even better with a minor buffing (see my comment below). Best of all, it's an African destination, which as Featured Destinations have been few and far between.
Nomination
  • Support. An amazingly comprehensive article especially for an African destination, and a not terribly well-known one at that. "Eat" and "Sleep" are very long, and the majority of listings have addresses and/or phone numbers. On the negative side, "See and Do" could use some minor tweaks to bring them in line with convention—I suppose they could stand to be expanded a bit too, but I'm given to understand that Arusha is best known as a jumping-off point for safaris, many of which are listed here (and in a surprisingly non-touty way). "Drink" also needs to be listingified. As I see it, these are all minor fixes—and assuming we're going to put this on the schedule sometime during the Northern Hemisphere winter, we have plenty of time to make those changes. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:56, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also: photos, while plentiful, aren't terribly good. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:58, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I look forward to supporting this article in the future, but right now, there are several problems that need to be addressed, in addition to those you mention: (1) A banner is needed; (2) Safari company offices need to be listed as street addresses, not PO Boxes. (3) The hotel pic should probably be deleted, or if not, justified in the talk page. Once these problems are addressed, I'll be happy to support, but not yet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:33, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding "a banner is needed", are you talking about a pagebanner, or the fact that it will be difficult to find a photo to use as the DotM banner? If the latter, that's a valid point but not the kind of thing that ought to hold up a nomination; if the former, I don't remember there being a consensus that featured articles require a pagebanner (and if there is, it ought to say so at the top of this article). The other two points you made are valid, and also easy fixes. In fact, I'd be surprised if many of the current nominees aren't guilty of the same or worse. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:11, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I actually did mean a pagebanner, and while obviously that hasn't been something that's held up nominations in the past, when there weren't any pagebanners, it's an obvious thing to notice now, when many pages have customized pagebanners, so I mentioned it. And if it's easy to find street addresses for the safari company offices, great, but someone has to do it and edit the entries. As I said, I'll be glad to support the article when it's in slightly better shape. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:37, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Requiring featured article nominees to have pagebanners may well be a good policy, but it bears repeating that as yet, we've neither come to a consensus on that issue nor even discussed it. I'm sure you agree that enforcing policies that don't exist yet is not something we want to do. Incidentally, several of our other nominees (Nagoya, Madison, Childs, and Clarence), many of whose nominations have unanimous support, would be disqualified by such a rule. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I Support this, just as I did before! But given that it was slushed, it's probably worth taking the time to assess concerns that were then brought up. --Peter Talk 03:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't support See & Do are still not split, there are quite some non-standard listings (tour policy!) and it need someone with local knowledge to get updates on most sections. Its for the long run but someone needs to adopt it. I'm busy with Musandam, Travemünde and Cairns, so i don't have time for this beauty. jan (talk) 07:31, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]



Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Apr-Oct
Nominated by: (WT-en) LtPowers 22:38, 2 June 2012 (EDT)
Comment: It's more than just the gateway to Niagara Falls. Buffalo really has a fair bit going for it, and User:(WT-en) AndreCarrotflower has put in a lot of work to make this article reflect that. I know Andre was thinking of districting it, but I really think it's in quite good shape as it stands now. Blurb (to the right) needs work.
Nomination

Buffalo is a city full of surprises. Though sometimes the butt of jokes, those in the know tell of vibrant nightlife, world-class cultural attractions, tight-knit neighborhoods with a real sense of place—and the sunniest summers in the Northeastern U.S.

  • Support. Even if we were to district this, it would quickly be at guide status. Andre did awesome work. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:35, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
  • Support. Thanks for the votes of confidence. It's true that I was thinking of breaking this article up into districts, but I feel this article is already substantially complete and, in my admittedly biased opinion, would work spectacularly as a DotM for all the reasons listed above. Given all the other things that are taking up my time at the moment, I would have absolutely no issue (quite the contrary!) with putting off the districting of the article until after its DotM month is over. --(WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 19:05, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
    • One minor quibble, though, is that I feel the article would be better served with a different photo on the front page. To sum Buffalo up with a photo of chicken wings seems to me to be hackneyed and an inaccurate depiction of this multifaceted city. I think the photo of the Commercial Slip would be a much better "introductory photo" to the Buffalo article. (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 22:08, 15 June 2012 (EDT)
      • I was wondering if anyone would object. We don't often use images of cuisine on the front page, and I thought it would make for a nice change in that respect. It's a really good picture and I think it would look very iconic and eye-catching on the front page. Lots of cities have harbors and majestic buildings, but only Buffalo has real Buffalo wings. (That and there aren't a lot of options to choose from in the article at the moment.) (WT-en) LtPowers 12:08, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
        • I'm not at all averse to breaking convention, but I think it should be kept in mind that in writing the article, one of my intentions was to present Buffalo as a place that is not necessarily consistent with the average reader's preconceived ideas. I think that given its reputation, if we want Wikivoyagers to take an interest in Buffalo as a destination it's important that we move beyond the clichés like snow, lousy sports teams, and chicken wings (hence some of the things I wrote in the intro blurb). I agree that the range of photos on the page was not extensive enough to really allow this—and I agree that while Canalside is hugely important historically, any reader who might not be versed in Buffalo history could be forgiven for thinking it looks like something that could be found in any city. I think it bears mentioning, though, that Buffalo has become quite well-known among architecture buffs—and this is something we're beginning to take advantage of in terms of niche tourism—so perhaps it would be appropriate to focus on that aspect despite the fact that "[l]ots of cities have... majestic buildings". With that in mind, I've taken the liberty of uploading several new photos, many of which I feel are good candidates for new front-page photos. (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 01:14, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
  • Support. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:16, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
  • Support -- Very nice. However, I think it might be best to district the city before featuring. Eat, Drink, & Sleep are just way too long. There have been two discussions about the Learn section on Wikivoyage talk:Big city article template. The general consensus seems to be that Learn should only be used for short-courses that travelers can partake in, but without a clear consensus on guideline & how to handle the section. Buffalo's Learn section is just a listing of colleges & universities and doesn't seem like something that belongs in a travel guide, especially one we're featuring. The third/last paragraph has useful info that could be moved to Do(?). Stay healthy is similar. Just mentioning facilities (with no address/contact) seems pointless. Per Big city article template: This is a section for general health tips. Hospitals belong in Cope and should probably have useful info...website, address, phone. Radio, Television, & Places of Worship are ok with WV guidelines, but these sections really seem encyclopedic. Radio & TV are useful, but the listings add to an already long page...maybe they'd be better in a table? The pics of Sweetness 7 Cafe, Swannie House, & Hotel Lafayette don't really seem notable enough to be an exception to the policy of no photos of just a business. Does the wings photo to go with the nomination really do this city justice? I was about to suggest a nice photo with lots of snow...iconic? yes...but this is going to be featured in summer and since it's not a winter destination, probably not the best image of the city for tourism. AHeneen (talk) 03:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding districting Buffalo: I've already begun that process and aim to have it complete before Buffalo's stint as DotM. The first of the district articles is already complete, and the second one is well on its way also. Per the outcome of a conversation (, first two entries) with the esteemed Peter Fitzgerald, it was decided that the district articles would be left on my user page until all seven were completed, so on the off chance that May comes and all the districts aren't finished yet, we can at least feature the Buffalo article more or less as it is now, rather than with dead links to not-yet-complete districts.
Regarding "Learn" and "Stay Healthy": after reviewing past DotMs and OtBPs as well as current nominees, I can't say that I agree at all that a consensus of the type you cited has been established. For example, though there are a few past DotMs whose Learn sections have confined themselves to "short-courses that travelers can partake in", the vast majority of them—especially in the more recent past—have Learn sections that look much the same as Buffalo's. Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Medellín, Newcastle upon Tyne, and Kanazawa, as well as current nominees Pittsburgh and Madison, are only a few of the many examples. Meanwhile, of the relatively few past DotMs that include a "Stay Healthy" section, they generally all seem to follow the same ground rules as the Buffalo article—see London and Bristol—and I was unable to find any instances at all of hospitals being listed under "Cope", though I admit I didn't look all the way back to 2004. In any event, these two sections (especially "Learn") are among the few parts of the Buffalo article that are essentially unchanged from the time I began editing it.
Regarding radio and TV listings: your point is well taken. I'd love to see these long sections of prose converted into tables; if something like that conforms to Wikivoyage convention, I'd love to get started on that process.
Regarding the photos: I am aware of Wikivoyage's policy that encourages authors to be wary of using photos to tout individual businesses. However, I feel the photos of Sweetness 7, the Swannie House, and the Hotel Lafayette are notable enough to be justifiable—especially the Hotel Lafayette, whose restoration and reopening is a prime example of both the revival of downtown Buffalo and the boom in the hotel industry there, not to mention its notability from an architectural standpoint as the most important remaining work of Louise Blanchard Bethune, America's first female architect of importance. As for the Swannie House and Sweetness 7, these two businesses are notable (respectively) as one of the last remaining links to the First Ward's past as an industrial hub of working-class Irishmen, and as the driving force behind the Upper West Side's emergence as the newest hip neighborhood in Buffalo. These points are thoroughly elaborated upon in the photos' captions or elsewhere in the article.
Regarding the chicken wing photo: I am in complete agreement with you on that, as you can see from earlier comments on this thread. As I mentioned previously, there are plenty of other photos in the article that would do as good a job or better at conveying the true nature of Buffalo. I'm definitely open to suggestions for an alternate cover shot!
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Traditionally, we've considered "Stay Healthy" to be reserved for large geographic areas with significant steps one must take to actually remain healthy, or the rare destination article that has truly significant health issues separate from its surrounding area. Health information for most destination articles has usually gone in "Stay safe", though "Cope" isn't a bad option for hospital listings. LtPowers (talk) 13:46, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: April-June or September would be optimal.
Nominated by: --User:Ikan Kekek Talk 17:25, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This is a star article that hasn't been featured before. The tone of the article is pretty touting - but of the location itself - and is otherwise somewhat funny and makes the town seem fun.
Nomination

Pine City is your quintessential, American small-town but it offers a lot for its size and is an easy day trip from the Twin Cities.

  • Support Of course, as the nominator, I support, but you'll see that there's a lot of content in this article, and it will represent the site well. The blurb can use some work. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is not a star article. an IP (albeit one who wrote most of the content in the article) added the starcity template without a nomination or discussion. I've downgraded it to usable, which would disqualify it from feature consideration. We can discuss whether it might qualify as a guide, but if so, it looks like a fairly weak guide to me. LtPowers (talk) 17:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've seen plenty of guides without maps. However, it's the lack of descriptions in many listings plus the phone book feel of the cope section (do we really need an extensive list of barbers and salons?) keeps it from feeling like a true "guide". PerryPlanet (talk) 18:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Very few prices on the listings. LtPowers (talk) 18:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-September. Visiting in winter is possible but most of the roads are closed.
Nominated by: (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:02, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
Comment: This was previously put in the slush pile but has since been significantly cleaned up and updated. The world's first national park, a UNESCO world heritage site, and an awesome place to visit.
Nomination

Yellowstone National Park was the world's first national park, set aside in 1872 to preserve the vast number of geysers, hot springs, and other thermal areas, as well as to protect the incredible wildlife and rugged beauty of the area.

  • Support. As well-written and comprehensive an article as any I've read. -- (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 01:19, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
  • Oppose There's a lot of text, but not a whole lot of content. What I mean is that Understand, Get in, Get around, & Stay safe seem too short to do the park justice. I'm sure even the park's official brochures have much more useful content than those sections and there are a number of complete books about just Yellowstone or Yellowstone/Grand Teton NPs (see Amazon.com). Is this really something we'd want to feature? See listings are plentiful, but many don't have useful descriptions...where exactly are they (directions together with a map...maybe even a special map, like one for geysers or one for hikes). Buy listings need expanded. Eat & Sleep listings don't have an address...the park is huge...where are they? There may not be a precedent for this, but Yellowstone is actually a suitable candidate to be divided into districts. Much of the See/Do is already conveniently divided by section of the park. AHeneen (talk) 04:23, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd like to improve the article and appreciate the feedback, but while the sections you've mentioned could clearly be expanded, there is a fine line between sufficient and too much detail that I think we want to be cautious of, so feedback from others would be appreciated. As to addresses, the park doesn't actually use numbered addresses and instead simply organizes places according to the village it is in, which this article does as well. As to the "see" listings, could you provide an example of one which you feel isn't useful? Again, they have been divided according to the park region they are located in, but perhaps the article can be cleaned up to make that point clearer. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. I think there's a lot of good, solid info here, but I hesitate to throw my full support behind it just yet.
  • The biggest issue I have is that a lot of the See listings are written in a very dry tone. Take the first one: "Yellowstone Lake is the largest lake at high elevation (more than 7,000 ft.) in North America. It is a natural lake, situated at 7,733 ft. above sea level. It is roughly 20 miles long and 14 miles wide with 141 miles of shoreline. It is frozen nearly half the year." Rather than painting a picture of the site, it reads like a statement of facts. Some livening up of the tone would be really nice.
  • Additionally, while I get that there are no addresses in the park, there really should be at least some indication of which village each Eat, Drink and Sleep listing is in, because I can't for the life of me figure out where they are.
  • A minor suggestion, but I would expand the lead and liven it up a bit, with a greater emphasis on what makes Yellowstone worth visiting.
  • Another minor suggestion, but the text for the state names in both maps is really small and faint. I would make them more prominent, to give viewers a clearer sense of where Yellowstone sits in the country. PerryPlanet (talk) 20:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are lots of things that need worked on outlined above so I won't repeat them, but these things definitely need to be addressed in order to make this guide useful for travelers as well as to be featured. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: I think it's pretty much hot, humid, and wet in this part of the world all the time, so anytime.
Nominated by: Peter Talk 06:52, 14 September 2012 (CEST)
Comment: I caught wind of this article on special:longpages! While not perfect, we're not working on a star nomination, and this is a good showcase for the sort of depth we provide on destinations to which ye olde printed guide would give little attention. It's a big city, which makes it an odd choice for OtBP, but I think it's little visited and not terribly well known on a global scale. Having a huge city in OtBP would be kind of a novelty, too.
Nomination

This is that skyline you see in Malaysia if you look across the causeway from Singapore—that of Johor Bahru! Though certainly not on the shortlist of Malaysia's top tourist attractions, the city can be a real adventure, with many shopping complexes and a wide variety of food establishments.

  • Soft support It definitely needs some shortening in the Get in and Get around section. If you are willing to tackle that, then yes. Jc8136 (talk) 20:34, 19 September 2012 (CEST)
Needs major work I tried to improve the JB article but currently i think without a major drive to improve that article, it will not happen. jan (talk) 11:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet. This article is much too long. It needs a lot of clean-up work to be done, some listings even have prices listed for each product sold. If it is featured, however, I'd say it should be a DotM, as it has more than 1.5 million inhabitants. And it's a stop-over point for many travellers to Singapore. --Globe-trotter (talk) 14:23, 23 September 2012 (CEST)
  • Needs work This article has troubled me for quite a while as it has needed a good scrub out, as indicated by Globetrotter above. I notice Jan has recently given it some well needed attention, it probably needs some more. The article and the destination are both worthwhile, it is a gateway to Malaysia and has it's own facets of interest.-- Felix (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2012 (CEST)
  • Comment Whenever this article is judged as ready to feature, it needs to be a DoTM. Johor Bahru is on and not off the beaten path. It's a major makan (eating) day trip for Singaporeans and a city that most traffic between Malaysia and Singapore goes through. If we want to call this off the beaten path, what is Newark (New Jersey)? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Most likely a moot point; odds are this nomination is going to end up in the slush pile due to chronic lack of interest in making the many necessary improvements spelled out above. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:39, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Article status: Usable (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: July-August
Nominated by: --Stefan (sertmann) talk
Comment: I seriously love this itinerary for an extremely unusual destination. It's very informative, thoroughly enticing (at least to adventurers like me), witty and well written, so I'd really want to see it featured. Though, realistically, there is no way we can get all the stops up to usable status. Is there room for a compromise, where we temporarily delink the cities, and bump it to guide status during a feature?
Nomination

Blurb to be added if there is support for a compromise

  • Oppose. I don't remember there being any rule about FTTs that states that each stop on an itinerary must be at Usable status. However, the fact remains that the article itself needs to be Guide or better in order to go on the front page. I think it's a great destination, but realistically there's nowhere near enough content in this article to justify bumping it up to Guide status as it is now. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is by far the best existing guide to this route/region, and would therefore make a good showcase of what we do, despite the lack of "completeness" found in our guide-status articles. If that means making an exception to our guide status rule, I think that's OK in this exceptional case. And there is actually a fair amount of very interesting content in those linked destination/points. --Peter Talk 23:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. I'm concerned about the number of red links in "Go" and "Go next." I'd also love to see more photos. If some progress could be made on both fronts - more blue links and more photos - I would be OK with running this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready yet, I think. The Magadan article mentions the translation "road of bones" for this highway and talks about gulags. Shouldn't the translation, and perhaps the story behind it, be in this article? Also the gulags? Pashley (talk) 14:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: November-April
Nominated by: (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 09:25, 19 July 2012 (EDT)
Comment: I noticed that there was a dearth of DOTM nominees without negative votes or other issues, so I figured I'd throw this (IMO) well-written and intriguing article into the mix. I've never been here but it's been on my travel wishlist for a while.
Nomination

A disastrous earthquake in 1773 damaged most of Antigua Guatemala, demoting it from a bustling capital to a provincial town filled with the ruins of former glory. Antigua has been a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 1979.

  • I'm lazy. Too lazy/tired/busy to do the fixes that I should just do myself, but I'll mention them quickly (and link to the old slushed nomination): See & Do should have listings, the "Learn about the people" subsection needs to be reformatted, and probably merged to different parts of the article including the Homestay subsection of Sleep. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:39, 20 July 2012 (EDT)
Well, we have until at least October. I'm sure I, or someone else, can make these changes between now and then. (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 15:48, 20 July 2012 (EDT)
  • Oppose The content isn't bad, but the whole page needs formatting before we feature this. Understand, Get in, Get around, & Stay safe all need sub-headings with the content appropriately divided. Eat & Drink need more info like phone numbers, prices, & a few are even missing addresses. Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of adding a listing template, but going through and organizing the blocks of text. It also needs some good pictures and a map. This is more than something I or another editor can fix in 30 min. This wouldn't be a bad nominee for Wikitravel:Collaboration of the Month, though, as most of these issues don't require local knowledge. AHeneen (talk) 04:08, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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