|This article has Star potential. It's well written with great information. However, for Star status it needs both to be entirely complete and to exactly match the manual of style. If you see how it can be improved, please plunge forward or point it out on the talk page.|
> Try ... an absinthe cocktail (the fabled liquor was never outlawed here)
- No objections on my part. I have no idea what that was doing in there to start with, but left it as I couldn't really argue for or against it and to be honest I've never really seen it in any more abundance in Catalonia than in the rest of Spain, so it could either just be removed or moved to general Spain --(WT-en) Primecoordinator 16:00, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
As per discussion at star nominations, I have put together a bare bones Wikivoyage map for Figueres. Sadly, the base material is not great, and I cannot add any more road detail than this without copying directly from non-free sources. I do realise that the map coverage may need to shift northwest a little. This is very much a first draft, mostly designed to get comments from User:(WT-en) Primecoordinator (or anyone else with knowledge of the town). Please place all comments here. I will need full instructions on where to place each and every listing. The more detail the better. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:39, 20 March 2010 (EDT)
- It's a good looking first draft. I'm in Mali at the moment, getting ready to trek in Dogon, so I'll need about a week before I can get back to it and give it proper attention for accuracy. Whatever the case, it looks better than most of the maps the Lonely Planet churns out these days... (WT-en) Primecoordinator 16:08, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Okay, so first off, the map should be more focused on the downtown area. Carrer Pujades is really not important to tourists, so it doesn't need to be on the map. Zooming in more would also help better define the Rambla street which is actually two streets and neither of them meet with Carrer Empordá. A arrow pointing in the direction of the Castle would also be good as it's just straight up from the Dalí Museum. Well, anyways, that's the first batch of comments. Hopefully it makes sense.
Figueres Star NominationEdit
I'm putting this forth as I've put a good deal of effort to get it in line with all the required elements to be a Star article. Just now I've cleaned up the Get Out section to link to only live pages (which meant creating a good number of them) and have added a map. With this, I feel that it is ready for Star status. (WT-en) Primecoordinator 17:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- Not yet. I haven't read through the article carefully, but a few problems jump out immediately. First and foremost, the article needs to have a Wikivoyage-style map (Project:How to draw a map/Project:How to create a map), with all listings marked. If you are up to the task of finishing up the rest of the necessary tasks for star status, my hunch is that a mapmaker will be happy to volunteer.
- Other issues that stand out while skimming: 1) contact details missing for many listings; 2) more description is needed for most listings outside the see section; 3) I think it would be desirable to add more eat and drink listings; 4) eat listings should be sorted by price.
- I hope this is helpful, rather than discouraging, as it would be wonderful to have our first Spanish star article! At present, though, it seems to be "merely" a fine guide-status article. Surprisingly, we don't really have any star articles to look at that are a comparable size to Figueres, but Hilversum (pop. 80,000) might be a good example to look to, although it clearly is longer than the Figueres article should be. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:05, 10 March 2010 (EST)
- Actually yes, it is discouraging as the standards for Star articles aren't evenly applied at all, no matter how spelled out it is. And how the hell do you rate something as a 'Not yet' before you've even finished it?!! I find that to be more an attempt to "be first" in reviewing as opposed to actually writing a proper review. As for the map, if I had known there were more specific standards on them, then I wouldn't have wasted my time, thanks... Many aspects of Wikivoyage have been generally quite hard to find, so it's no wonder that certain areas are lacking content. Also, there are some Star articles that don't have maps. In regards to breaking down the listings for food and drink, that's rather insane beyond the hotels. This is a town of 40,000 people, not a metropolis like Barcelona with 2 million. Drinks are the same cost everywhere and food varies maybe 10€ between a "hi end" and "low end" restaurant. At this point, if someone else wants to take up the mantle and finish this out, such as the map, that would be great. Otherwise, I've spent more than enough time on it and you can continue to have Spain without any Star articles as Barcelona and Madrid seem to be stuck amidst infighting which it seems this community breeds more of than any sense of cohesion towards a better product. (WT-en) Primecoordinator 19:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- I'm terribly sorry to have come across as discouraging, I really am just trying to give constructive criticism to help build a better product ;) (I couldn't care less about "being first"—I'm usually last.) I say not yet, because without having done a thorough read through, there are a couple obstacles that clearly stand in the way of star status (notably the map). The guidelines/criteria for star status are at Project:City guide status.
- Hey Primecoordinator, please do not be discouraged by this. It is a strong guide, but the demands for star status are rightly very high. Once you have an eye for star articles, it is quite easy to have a preliminary read, and to notice things that are missing. That is exactly what Peter did in a constructive way. It is very possible for small, little known destinations to reach star status: see Sheki (pop 65,000) and Nusa Lembongan (pop 8,000), as well as Hilversum, already mentioned. If a map is the biggest issue (I suspect it is), then I can help out by drawing it. What I obviously can't do though is place all the icons etc, so I would need your guidance on that. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:55, 10 March 2010 (EST)
- Yeah, I can help with that when you pull it together. I've never used this mapping system and would need some guidance for for. (WT-en) Primecoordinator 09:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Support - Have uploaded a more proper map. Can provide the illustrator file if anyone feels like truing anything up. (WT-en) Primecoordinator 21:18, 04 April 2010 (UTC)
- Also flesh out a proper History section (WT-en) Primecoordinator 21:20, 04 April 2010 (UTC)
- Hmm. What is the base source you used for tracing that map please? There are no free sources I could find with that level of detail, and you have not indicated the source on the map mark up. Also, if you were doing this, it would have been nice tell me and I would not have wasted time. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:46, 4 April 2010 (EDT)
- I posted a reply on the Talk page over a week ago and assumed that as you hadn't responded you had given up on me. Also, I was hoping to start with what you had created, but you only uploaded the png and not any svg file to work with that I could see. As to the source, it's based on my knowledge of having lived there, an aerial photo my wife took as a teenager (it's her home town), and cross reference with the city tourism guide. Some of this may appear off with the Google Map, which for some reason is incorrect in number of items. And yeah, the Open Street Map is practically non-existent. --(WT-en) Primecoordinator 11:51, 05 April 2010 (UTC)
- The SVG is now uploaded (this would not normally be done until the map is finished). Just go ahead and use if it is helpful.
After a far from thorough read, I will try to post an audit list of what I think needs to happen to this article to get it to star standard.
- Needs an opening paragraph that makes you want to go there.
- Talk section needs wikilinks to Catalan and Spanish phrasebooks.
- Get in section needs cities to be wikilinked, and the wikilink to Ryanair should be removed (there is no such article).
- See section. All formal attractions need opening hours and admission prices. If no admission it should say so.
- Do section. Is there no theatre or cinema in the town? Or anything else to do?
- Buy section. Shops need opening hours and phone numbers.
- Eat section. Restaurants need opening hours, phone numbers and prices.
- Drink Section. Bars and Wineries need phone numbers and hours.
- Sleep section. A sleeppricerange table would be good. All hotels need prices.
- Stay safe section. Add the police station contact details and address.
- Cope - no section at the moment. Hospital details would be good, plus libraries?
- Contact - no section at the moment. Internet cafes? Post office? The area dialing code.
That's a start at least on specifics. Other small things, I have just gone ahead and changed. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:33, 5 April 2010 (EDT)
- Thanks for the map. As to some items that you bring up:
- Opening paragraph rewritten.
- Talk linked out.
- For Get in, not really sure what you're getting at. Is it standard style to re-link cities in Get In? And as for Ryanair, that should just link out to their main site, no?
- A lot of the phone numbers just aren't going to happen. I'm not there currently and so it's impossible to look these things up as many of the places have no websites. I've added the ones that were easy to find. And answering the phone in general is a hit and miss thing. Most people just show up. I'll add the Cope and Contact sections when I get a chance as they're easy.
- But, here's a large question for the community, in that why bother putting the exact prices for hotels? They change often, vary by season and nearly impossible to keep up to date. Shouldn't we do like most guides do and just keep them in general price ranges? I mean, people have to call or visit their website to make a reservation anyways so as long as they know that they're calling something in the Splurge range, that should be all, no? I ask this as when searching for hotels, even on their own websites the prices are never up to date, so I just ignore them. Seems like a useless, tedious thing to keep up on. --(WT-en) Primecoordinator 11:27, 06 April 2010 (UTC)
- I suggest you do what you can with phone numbers. Some of the missing ones are easy - I just managed to find two with a Google search, eg TOT ART and Pastisseria Serra Lacasa. I appreciate that some may be harder. If they exist though a very large effort ought to be made to find them. An email to the local town council might be a good start.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:15, 6 April 2010 (EDT)
- Thanks for the map. As to some items that you bring up:
Result: Slushed. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:48, 9 November 2010 (EST)