Talk:Arts in Japan

J-pop idols

@Bigpeteb, Ineffablebookkeeper: Let's discuss what is a fair way to cover the idol industry. As always, the goal is to be accurate and not sensationalise things. While we don't want to overstate the frequency of this, there was the case of an idol named Mayu Tomita being stabbed by a fan when she rejected his romantic advances, and another idol called Ena Matsuoka who was stalked and raped by an obsessed fan. There have also been numerous others who have been victims of stalking and sexual harassment. So while of course we don't want this article to turn into propaganda against idol culture, I think being fair means that the dark side of the idol culture should be mentioned too. The dog2 (talk) 21:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

When I saw the title, I thought it was going to be about traditional sculpting of Buddhas, Shinto deities, etc. My remark about the kinds of idols you're talking about is that the dark side can be very briefly referred to. Superstars, and indeed people unknown to the public, can be stalked, stabbed and raped most anyplace, and that's not really very clearly travel-related, because what would the angle be? Don't travel to Japan if you're a stalker of idols? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:06, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

I think mentioning some of it will let people have an idea of what kind of experience they will have should they decide to go to an idol concert. Of course, it will not be fair to say that all fans of idols are stalkers, murderers and rapists, and the latter types of people are certainly a small minority among idol fans, but the kind of devotion you can see from fans sometimes borders on obsession from a Western (or even Chinese) perspective. And by the way, I have changed the title to avoid any potential confusion as to what I am referring to. The dog2 (talk) 22:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Having written most of the old text, you can probably tell I'm not keen on Japanese idols. I'm glad Ineffablebookkeeper challenged that and changed up the perspective we show, because the truth is that they are quite popular, and we ought to present things with a positive outlook if we can. That said, there are certainly a lot of things to dislike or question about idol culture, and I think it's fair to still mention those as well; I tried to strike a balance in my last edit.

However, I don't think it's appropriate or helpful to mention fan stalking, harassment, assault, etc. Celebrities everywhere are the targets of inappropriate or even dangerous fan behavior. Even if it's a little more prominent with fans of idols, it's still a very rare occurrence overall. I don't see that there's any danger worth mentioning, or anything that particularly makes an idol concert different from any other. Besides that, as Ikan Kekek says, how would mentioning the bad behavior of a few fans be relevant to travel? --Bigpeteb (talk) 23:00, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

If nothing else, J-pop stans sure are damned dedicated. And I agree - I don't think it's that useful or even necessary to include. I haven't been to a J-pop concert, and though the actions of obsessive fans make the news, I'd have to say it's probably a fluke if someone runs into one of them. I don't know what the policy on Wikipedia links is, so if it's brought up even in passing, linking to the Wikipedia page would be more than enough. There's a section discussing fan behaviour there under 'fan culture'. --Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) 23:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage policy on external links can be seen at Wikivoyage:External links, and in regard to Wikipedia links specifically, Wikivoyage:Links to Wikipedia. Basically, inline links are normally not used, and links are with a few exceptions restricted to the relevant tabs in listings. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:45, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

OK. But if anyone is knows idol fan culture, that is within our scope so people who go to Japan to watch, say AKB48 live, will know why kind of experience to expect.The dog2 (talk) 01:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Travel Focus

This article needs to have a travel focus. At the moment, it reads like a long encyclopedic list rather than a travel guide. Every listed art form should contain information about cities and venues where you can enjoy that art, watching and/or participating. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2020 (UTC)