Hello, everybody! If you'd like to discuss anything with me, please post new topics at the bottom of the page and sign the posts with 4 tildes (the ~ key) in a row. Thanks!

Currently inactive discussions can be found at User talk:Ikan Kekek/archive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Jazz vs bluesEdit

Hey there. I was just wondering if as a musician, you think we should cover the differences between the two genres in one of our articles. After all, many tourists visit the U.S. to listen to both genres of music, and they do share many similarities as both are of African-American origin, and someone who is not experienced could easily confuse the two. The dog2 (talk) 18:00, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, I mean, by that logic why not also cover rock and roll in that article too? Honestly, I think that despite springing from the same well, jazz and blues are distinct enough from each other in their history, tourist-related POIs, etc. that we'd be doing readers a disservice lumping them together. Anyone who wants to explore both jazz and blues music on their visit to the U.S. can consult both the Jazz and Blues articles (and if the latter doesn't exist yet, it should). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:31, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Fair point. Unfortunately, I'm not well-versed enough in the history of the blues to start the article, but if someone can get that going, I'd be happy to contribute. Speaking of which, from doing a few Google searches, I came across some tour itineraries about the "Americana music triangle" of Nashville (country music), Memphis (blues) and New Orleans (jazz). Perhaps something we analogous could create here is an "American Southern music cities" road trip starting in Bristol, Tennessee and ending in Lafayette, Louisiana, passing though some important cities such as Clarksdale, Knoxville and Baton Rouge. The dog2 (talk) 19:09, 25 September 2019 (UTC)


I agree with Andre on jazz and the blues. I'd be interested in knowing more about the itinerary. Austin is a big music city, too, though Texas isn't treated as part of the South on this site. And maybe Miami for Cuban music? Which cities in Mississippi have an interesting music scene, nowadays? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:07, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
This is one of the web-sites I came across: [1]. I've never been to Mississippi or Tennessee so I don't know what the scene is like now, but I just got back from a trip to Louisiana, and New Orleans definitely has a happening music scene. Of course there's the traditional jazz, but there are also plenty of bands that are playing modern variants of New Orleans jazz. One that I got to listen to live was called the Jumbo Shrimp Jazz Band. Over in Lafayette, they have the traditional Cajun-style music, which makes extensive use of the accordion. My understanding about Mississippi though is that Clarksdale is regarded as the birthplace of the blues, so that would be a stop on make on such an itinerary. And Bristol, Tennessee is supposed to be where the first country music record was produced. Of course, Knoxville was where Dolly Parton started her career, so that could be a destination. And I think for the purpose of the itinerary, we can consider Texas to be part of the South. The dog2 (talk) 02:48, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
That's quite an interesting site. Another thought I had is that Sheffield, Alabama (no Wikivoyage article) might be a place of pilgrimage for fans of rock 'n' roll recorded at Mussel Shoals Studio. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:37, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Guided Tours section of Pennsylvania Dutch Country pageEdit

Hi, I saw that you removed the "Guided Tours" listings on https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Dutch_Country. I also got your Talk message. Just wanted to follow up about that.

You mentioned "You also need to read the site's tour listing policy. Most tours can't be listed at all."

Each of the businesses that had been listed meet all 6 of the requirements on https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Listings#Tour_listings

None of those tour guides run tours where "...the substance of such tours can generally be fulfilled by an independent traveller". An independent traveler can't walk onto the private property of Amish folks and talk with them. These bus/scooter tours allow for that. The tours of the Amish are each unique because they offer tourists the chance to learn about different Amish farms (none of which are publicly accessible apart from the tour).

Also, all of those guided tours are in "Pennsylvania Dutch Country". That's why they're listed on that page. Sure, they could be listed on individual city pages, but if you're a tourist visiting "PA Dutch Country", you're looking for info about the Amish. Whereas, if you're looking to visit (city), you may be looking for info about a variety of things (which includes, but isn't exclusive to) the Amish.

With that being the case, could you please undo your edit: https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Pennsylvania_Dutch_Country&oldid=3850308

--JustinSayin (talk) 21:27, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your explanation. Site policy is to list tours in the article for the locality where they are headquartered (or, failing that, start from). The appropriate thing to do in the region article is to mention guided tours under "Do" as an activity, giving the background information you just put on this talk page, and state with Wikivoyage links the names of towns where tours originate. Do not list, link or even use the names of specific tours or tour agencies in the region article. In articles for localities, either in an introduction to the "Guided tours" subsection if there is more than one guided tour starting from that town or in the listing, if there's only one tour originating from that town, you should include a similar summary of the points you made here. It would not only justify listings but also help inform the traveler. Thanks a lot.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:01, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Few questionsEdit

In addition to my reply on my talk to you, as I am improving Katowice, I have few questions:

  • why is there no 'add listing' for the learn section?
  • pl wikivoyage for Katowice describes local cuisine. Can I add some notes about famous local dishes to Eat section?
  • how can we mention / link to stuff like https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlak_Zabytk%C3%B3w_Techniki_Wojew%C3%B3dztwa_%C5%9Al%C4%85skiego (no eng wiki article yet), it is quite useful for tourist (government-supoorted lists of local monuments in the form of a trail)?
  • should I create listings for the large shopping malls? Right now they are mentioned in the Buy section in text.
  • I've added entries for some attractions located on the border of Katowice and nearby Chorzów; some of them are technically located in Chorzów, but locals tend to see them as 'shared'. Anyway, is it ok to list them in the main article or should they be removed?

--Piotrus (talk) 07:03, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your work and your questions!
(1) I think there's no "add listing" for the "Learn" section because it's an optional section. What should be in that section is anyplace that provides classes either a visitor of ~2 weeks or less (or perhaps a summer) can take (e.g., Polish language classes for beginners, cooking classes, classes in Polish dances or music) and/or universities that take students on a year abroad, and the things to emphasize are how they are useful and/or attractive to such visitors.
(2) Yes, absolutely mention famous local dishes! It's probably most helpful to put those in an introductory section before the listings of places to eat.
(3) For this one, I suggest you bring it up at Talk:Katowice, because it will need a discussion, as Wikipedia articles of that type are not usually linked, but exceptions can be made by consensus. So make an argument for how it's so helpful to visitors that we should include it as an exception to normal guidelines.
(4) Yes, create listings for shopping malls.
(5) Yes, this is OK. You can mention in the lede or "Understand" section that Chorzów is also covered in this article - unless you plan on creating a separate article about that town, and in that case, we can't have the same listings in two articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Hey thanks for the kind words re: the American Cuisine article. It sort of became a hobby over the last couple of months. Beeelb (talk) 22:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
You deserve this barncompass more than I. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:16, 4 October 2019 (UTC)


I've started a page. Any comments appreciated. Not sure why pagebanner is not working... --Piotrus (talk) 14:22, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

What should it be doing if it were working? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:25, 8 October 2019 (UTC)


Thanks for correcting me, and more than my reverted one-letter un-correction, thanks for the remaining stuff that needed it. About my attempt of improvement, I wasn't sure, I just put the two "XXX year/s/ old" in coherence, from what seemed to me the most /logical/ — but well, logics and writing make the pair, as we use to say in french. Best --Eric.LEWIN (talk) 06:17, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Sure thing. Hyphenated adjectives are a sort of pet peeve of mine. They seem very unpopular with other editors on this site, and I'm not sure why. And welcome to Wikivoyage! I'll post a welcome message with some useful links on your user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:20, 8 October 2019 (UTC)


100px Thank you for the mercy you gave to an tired student.
oO ( Thank you for your careful help. I hope you are always happy...) Tichiel (talk) 07:10, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
Sure thing. It's all about collaborating. Have a great day! And do let me know if you have any questions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:09, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


I see your point, but I know that bano and mujer are words in Spanish. I was guessing about the one listed for "men" — because I was guessing, I did not remove that one. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:01, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

How many English words would you guess are borrow words from foreign languages? What about foreign words used in Malay? Don't guess that a Spanish word can't also be a Quechua word. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:13, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, well you reverted it, so it's fine. I don't care much either way. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:21, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi thereEdit

Your feedback here would be most valuable. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:58, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Done. Shocking for an admin to edit war. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:32, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Isn't he a bureaucrat, too? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:40, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Yep. But it would be shocking, regardless, for an admin to do that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:16, 15 October 2019 (UTC)


hello, we saw your message; by group project we mean that its a class, the 4 of us belong to a college class, and we are new to creating articles in general thus all the template and style problems. Also we believe that Woodside, queens has enough reasons to have an article of its own, and we will follow up on the Talk:Queens. Our next class will be on Thursday and we will work on it.

We appreciate your opinion and ask you very kindly to be patient with us, as we are just learning. Kind Regards, Jondiaz121 (talk) 15:55, 17 October 2019 (UTC)—The preceding comment was added by Jondiaz121 (talkcontribs)

Hi, J, and thanks for explaining.
First, a procedural point: When you post to talk pages, please sign your posts by typing 4 tildes (~) in a row at the end of the post. Second, I appreciate your enthusiasm and hope you add as much useful content as possible. Whether it remains in a separate article or not is of secondary concern at most.
Third, I'd like you to read the "Plunge forward" article, especially the "...But don't be reckless!!" section. Relevant excerpt:
Don't be afraid of making mistakes, but at the same time be aware that there are certain cases where you might find that your edit receives extra scrutiny, or may be undone by others:
  • Changes to regional organization. A lot of effort goes into splitting up huge cities into districts, or splitting up larger regions into smaller ones, so in cases where the regional breakdown was the result of lengthy discussion changes should usually be proposed on the article talk page first.
Since you didn't propose the changes on Talk:Queens before making them, it's important for you to start a thread there. In it, address not only how there are so many points of interest in Woodside that a separate article is required in in the interest of travelers, but also precisely what boundaries you are proposing for Woodside (and, preferably, all the other Wikivoyage districts for Queens, because we've never reached a conclusion about their exact boundaries).
And the article, if approved, would be named Queens/Woodside.
Thanks a lot.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:20, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello Ikan kekek thanks for your help, as you may know we are new at wikivoyage therefore we are lerning. our profesor ask as to create an article at wikivoyage for woodside since woodside didndt have one. for now we are going to try to add woodside nformation into Jackson Heights.
Thanks a lot.
All the best,

--RodriguezLuis7631 (talk) 16:40, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Does your professor have a Wikivoyage account? It would be good for us to have a dialogue with him or her. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting typosEdit

In Wikivoyage:Correct typos in one click one should remove corrected typos, but it is better to do so with the project script, this way fixing/removing is done in a single click and the version history has the needed info to filter the typo on next scan. Thanks, Uziel302 (talk) 09:48, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I'll have a look at the instructions you referenced. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:55, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

External link in article, namely to a videoEdit

Hey, Ikan. There's a YouTube channel called Wendover Productions that has—in my opinion—an amazing video about Barrow, Alaska (now Utqiaġvik) called "Why the Northernmost Town in America Exists". I'm not sure if you've watched it, and it doesn't function as a standalone travel guide, but I believe it imparts excellent information that's pertinent to prospective travelers. Would it be appropriate for me to create an external links section and put a link to the video there? TheTechnician27 (talk) 02:22, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Wikivoyage policy doesn't allow any external links section, nor are video links allowed. There might be a way to mention the title of the video somewhere, though, in the same manner that some articles mention books in "Understand" for people who want more background on a place. Broach that topic at Talk:Utqiagvik. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:24, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
I know the video TheTechnician27 is talking about, and I can vouch that there's a lot of good information in it that could be incorporated into the article (directly, not as a link). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:03, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
If so, either by summary/paraphrase or by mentioning that [Name of Video] states that x and y. Either way, credit should be given in (an) edit summary(-ies). Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:24, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

China and ethnic minoritiesEdit

Hey there, I just thought it's better I carry on the discussion here rather than on the other person's talk page so (s)he's not flooded with alerts from messages not addressed to him/her. I am not here to advocate for any political position, but I just wish to give a bit more nuance to the topic than what you will get from Fox News, MSNBC or CNN, and while Xi Jinping is no saint, and the Chinese media is most certainly guilty of propagandising, it is also true that the Western media has its biases, and sometimes be a little unfair and even sensationalist in its coverage of China.

To cut a long story short, modern China is not concerned about people practising a religion or promoting their culture per se; that was true during the Cultural Revolution but not anymore. What they are really concerned about is if you are trying to subvert the government's authority, or to promote separatism. If you look carefully, for those ethnic minorities that have no active independence movements, the Chinese government is for the most part happy to let them promote their own cultures. I've in fact seen an ethnic Mongol boy perform a song in Mongolian on China's Got Talent (see this link). Even some of the Han Chinese have strong regional identities, and the Chinese government allows them to promote their own regional languages and cultures as long as they still identify as Chinese. You can find Cantonese channels if you go to Guangzhou, Teochew channels if you go to Chaozhou, Hokkien channels if you go to Xiamen and so on. It's mainly those ethnic minorities that are trying to push for independence whose cultures the Chinese government is actively trying to suppress. While it's a fair point to say that that's still oppressive and disproportionate, and that it's actually making the problem worse, as you can see, it's not as simple as the Chinese government being against diversity and wanting homogeneity for sake of it. It's a lot more complex than that.

Sorry for the rant, and I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to preach to you, but I just wished to provide a different perspective, which the privilege of being bilingual has allowed me to have. I think the bottomline is that China is not as dangerous or oppressive as the Western media often makes it out to be. Sure, they don't have many of the civil liberties that you guys have in America, and there are legitimate human rights concerns regarding political dissidents, but so long as you don't get involved in any criminal or political activity while you're there, the Chinese police are very unlikely to go after you. I've been to China several times, and not once have I felt that my personal safety was threatened. For that matter, I'll bet you that walking through a Chinese slum is safer than walking through an American slum, so go figure. The dog2 (talk) 05:22, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I get your points, but remember that I am a Jew - a member of a people who have been brutalized for millennia for choosing to remain distinct and not do things like bow down to rulers as if they were god, take part in any communal non-Jewish religious activities (including the original ancient Greek Olympics) or tolerate attempts to prohibit the exercise of our own religion. Do you expect me to feel sanguine about hundreds of thousands of people being detained in w:Xinjiang re-education camps? "In August 2018, a United Nations human rights panel said that it had received many credible reports that 1 million ethnic Uyghurs in China have been held in 're-education camps'." You can read about how these detainees have been treated in the rest of the article, which is of course cited and documented like all other Wikipedia articles. I don't think that the idea that Uighurs, Kazakhs, Kirghiz and so forth are "rebellious" justifies this attempt to destroy their culture and prevent them from practicing Islam. Basically, what you're explaining is that the Chinese government inflicts collective punishment with a vengeance, but I already knew that. That's what all authoritarian regimes do. And I know a fair amount about Chinese history. Understanding the motivations for an action doesn't make it any better or more justified. I'm not an authoritarian ruler and don't need to judge the world by putting myself in their shoes. I can do so enough to understand how they think and why, but I'd rather put myself in the shoes of an ordinary person who is dragged to a detention camp because of who or what they are. I sympathize with them, not with the heavy hand of the state that makes life a living nightmare for them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:59, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
Now, having said all that, I think the points you made bear more on the safety of travelers in China. While a responsible travel guide doesn't serve to defame dissidents by taking the side of the government, neither does it exist to serve as an activist organization on behalf of dissidents. Instead, we should give basic information to travelers on what the situation is like, and especially how it might affect their safety and their experience of traveling in a particular place. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:02, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
I'm not saying that the Chinese government is right to do what they're doing, nor does the fact that I'm critical of the U.S. government's imperialistic tendencies mean that I support the Chinese government's human rights abuses. I'm just trying to provide an extra level of nuance that Western media often doesn't give you (and to be fair, the Chinese media doesn't either). Let's put it this way: you can try to understand why someone is doing something, but still disagree with what they're doing. An example I can think of in America would be those people who voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump. And yes, I most certainly agree that as a travel guide, we should not take sides in any of these conflicts, and we should simply provide the necessary information so travellers will have an idea on how these conflicts will affect their experience. If you've seen my edits in the Hong Kong article, I hope you've notice that I have done my best to be fair and avoid propogandising for either side. The dog2 (talk) 06:32, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I get your points, certainly. Just to add, though, certain facts, simply by being stated, speak against a side in a conflict, and those can be fair to state for the information of (prospective) travelers. I mean, WV:Be fair doesn't mean that we should say "the Rohingyas and the U.N. say the armed forces of Myanmar have committed genocidal actions in Rakhine State, but since the government of Myanmar denies it, it's as likely as not to be a lie". I don't see any contradiction between condemning imperialism and also condemning human rights violations, though - isn't that logical? I don't really want to be drawn into a long discussion on imperialism, but suffice it to say that I know about Zheng He's voyages and what followed them, so I'm very much aware that China lost an opportunity to rule the waves for hundreds of years and hasn't forgotten it. And as for the U.S., when has it not been an imperialist power? That's all I want to say. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:55, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
My point was that being critical of the U.S. government doesn't mean that I'm not critical of the Chinese government and vice versa. Not that there's a contradiction between condemning both imperialism and human rights abuses. The dog2 (talk) 07:09, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
But of course there's never a contradiction in criticizing abuses by different governments. That's consistent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
And just one last thing here. While I'm pretty sure you already knew this, I just wanted to point out that, being ethnically Chinese doesn't mean that I support everything the Chinese government does, in the same way that being Jewish doesn't mean that you support everything the Israeli government does. I know of some American Jews who are calling for the Israeli government to launch a genocide of the Palestinians, but I also know of Jews on the other end of the spectrum like Bernie Sanders who are standing up for Palestinian rights. So the same goes for ethnic Chinese too; while ideologues who blindly support the Chinese government certainly do exist, there are also many of us who are capable of having our own minds and being fair by, and just like you guys, we have a wide range of opinions of various issues. The dog2 (talk) 17:12, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
To me, that goes without saying. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:22, 2 November 2019 (UTC)


The problem I have with "increasingly" here is using it with a past tense.

"Since the 1950s, foreign cuisines have increasingly found their way into Germany and have mixed with local dishes."

Foreign cuisines have found their way -- this is something that has already happened, do how it this trend increasing?

If the sentence read

"Since the 1950s, foreign cuisines are increasingly finding their way into Germany and have mixed with local dishes."

it would make sense as the tend is ongoing.

So I'd either take "increasingly" out, or leave it in and change the verb tense. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 15:39, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

To me there is no problem with the past tense. Until now they have, the current or coming trend I know nothing about. With present tense the large timespan seems odd. But then, I am not a native speaker. Of course, such a phrase should be used sparingly. --LPfi (talk) 17:20, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
The edit in question is here. "Increasingly" + past tense is used twice in the article, and "increasingly" + present tense is used twice (or 3 times), so I think I was also looking at it from the perspective of repeated use of the same phrases being boring, and trying for livelier writing. The other instance of its use with a past tense is:
"However, increasingly restaurants have switched to 0.4 liter beers "
Have they switched, as the verb says, or is it ongoing as the adverb implies? Ground Zero (talk) 17:45, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
There are still restaurants with 0.5 liter beer on tap (bottles are virtually never 0.4 liters) and there are those that switched several decades ago as well as those that switched a few years ago. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:24, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
Ground Zero, I don't understand your objection. "Have found" is a present perfect tense, indicating an action that started in the past and is continuing. It is not a past tense. Past tense would be "found" - that's over and done with. "Are increasingly finding" shouldn't start in the 1950s; that doesn't feel like idiomatic English to me because of how far in the past the process started. (I could see "This month, I'm increasingly finding kale on the menu at trendy restaurants," but there would be nothing wrong with using "I have found" in that context, and I'd usually use that.) I feel like you should chalk this one up to different usage between different individuals who are native English speakers, but it's certainly not a grammatical issue. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
Of course you're right that "have found" is the present perfect tense. What was I thinking? I still think that "increasingly" is overused on this article, and repetition bid boring, but I will drop the issue. Sorry to have bothered you with this. Ground Zero (talk) 14:23, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
No bother! Perhaps there are other places where "increasingly" is superfluous in the article; I haven't checked. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:21, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Portugal hotel rating systemEdit

Hey, Ikan. To try to answer your question "Why are you capitalizing" rural "?" on the link https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Chaves&oldid=3881383 I wrote this short text: The European Consumer Centres Network, an institution of the European Union, published a document about the "classification of hotel establishments in the European Union (E.U.)". This document can be found at the following link: https://cec.consumidor.pt/gestao-ficheiros-externos/classification-of-hotel-establishment-within-the-eu-pdf.aspx By consulting this document, on page 5, you will see the question: "Classification systems – why are they so different?". In summary, I have retained the following: "Each of the countries of the world, because of cultural traditions, national and otherwise, are using specific rating systems, which prevent the application of a single classification system worldwide. The possible criteria for the classification of hospitality establishments, which the World Tourism Organization (WTO) takes into consideration, are: a) The level of comfort: ... b) The location of the territory: ... ...)" Based on these 2 criteria we can distinguish "hotels" from "rural hotels" in Portugal. Page 31 of this document briefly describes how the classification of hospitality establishments in Portugal works and sorts their Categories by: Hotels, hotel apartments, Inns, Touristic (holiday) villages, Touristic (holiday) apartments, resorts, holiday villas, rural tourism, camping and caravans. One example of the difference between hotels and rural hotels is described in this document: "In Portugal, all touristic business should offer premises, equipments and at least one accommodation unit to be used by customers with conditioned mobility. The exception applies to ... rural hotels." But for a tourist is it important to distinguish the difference between a hotel and a rural hotel? It is really very important. For example, this tourist will know that, for example, a 4-star rural hotel is theoretically inferior to a 4-star hotel. I am at your disposal for any further clarification.Sanjorgepinho (talk) 15:44, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

  • I hope IK won't mind if I reply in the manner I think he would: when writing on a Wikivoyage article, please follow Wikivoyage's capitalization policy, not Portugal's policy, not the EU's policy. Thanks for adding valuable content to our beloved online travel guide. Ibaman (talk) 15:56, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Thank you Ibaman. I didn't understand the question. I thought you were asking why I was using the rural hotel category. I will then correct my publications. ThanksSanjorgepinho (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining, Ibaman. That's it exactly. Sanjorgepinho, if the category "rural hotel" means it isn't accessible to people with limited mobility, I think that should be explained in each case, as most readers are unlikely to know that. At the very least, it should be explained in Portugal#Sleep. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:10, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I will do that. It will take a while because Portugal#Sleep has a lot of wrong information to correct. For example, "residential or pension" ceased to exist in 2011.Sanjorgepinho (talk) 23:04, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Parenthetically, "pension" in English means only money for retired people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 17 November 2019 (UTC)


I'd like your opinion on this edit, which restored what I believe to be excessive detail on this listing. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 17:30, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

It looks like useful information to me, so I'd tend to leave it, except for the "Districts" header, which doesn't belong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
OK, Ground Zero, I'm looking at it on my computer now. I don't like how it looks. I think a range of prices in the "price" tab would be better, and a range of areas and number of people the rooms accommodate could be given in "content". Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:02, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. It's much better after your edit. Ground Zero (talk) 07:45, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Sure thing. I'm glad I didn't restrict myself to looking at the diff on my phone, but saw what it actually looked like in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Your revert on my edit in the North Carolina articleEdit

I'm very sure you are in the wrong here. I've lived in north carolina the past 8 years, and I've driven through south carolina (many times) and georgia a few times. Please look at a map closely yourself. There is no common border for NC and GA. Please revert your revert, or show me what evidence you are looking at. Marvin The Paranoid (talk) 01:25, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

I was doing my best to be polite, but be a bit careful what you're sure of. You can look at any of numerous maps with state borders in these search results if you're not satisfied with the map in South (United States of America). The border between North Carolina and Georgia is clearly further southwest than you've driven from North Carolina. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
My bad. My very bad. I did look at the map before I had made my edit, but it didn't occur to me that the border existed on the western side. My apologies and thanks for teaching me something new. Marvin The Paranoid (talk) 02:24, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
No problem. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

"Capital" of the Holy Roman EmpireEdit

Regarding your edit to North Rhine Westphalia - Aachen, or indeed any other city, was never capital of the Holy Roman Empire. I'd have to look up the edit history but my guess is this mistaken claim was introduced by someone removing "scare quotes" or "shortening" stuff or "straightening prose". I'll attempt a new blurb that if anything doesn't claim a blatant falsehood Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Not really wanting to stick my nose where I wasn't called, but hey, Charlemagne did indeed live and hold court at Aachen, just like Maximilian at Innsbruck or Maria Theresa at the Schönbrunn palace in Vienna or Philip II of Spain at Madrid and so on, therefore, there's nothing unusual or out of line about referring to these cities as "former Imperial capitals". That's my opinion, based on my interpretation of the WV:Tone and WV:Keep Wikivoyage fun policies. Ibaman (talk) 16:51, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
I looked it up, and while I don't know what would or wouldn't have made it the capital of the Holy Roman Empire, "from 936 to 1531, the place where 31 Holy Roman Emperors were crowned Kings of the Germans". Hobbitschuster, you're saying that empire had no capital? Isn't the capital wherever the seat of government is? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Capital and seat of government are not necessarily the same place. South Africa for example has them in different places. During the HRE the emperors were crowned in different places (often crowned king north of the alps and crowned emperor in Rome) they were constantly on the move in part because authority in those times only reached as far as it could be enforced and local lords absent the emperor did their own thing. The empire had a number of Pfalzen which were places where the emperor stayed repeatedly. Apparently many were glad when the court was gone because the emperor and his court had an appetite that no Pfalz could sustainably satiate (another reason for the moving around). Then there's the question what "the government" even was. The electors met only when a new emperor was to be elected, the Reichstag met only when called until the 17th century when it was "perpetually" in Regensburg and once the Habsburgs took over the title of emperor, they were mostly in their residence although that wasn't always Vienna. So in short, royal residences may be capitals, especially when the current capital goes back to a royal residence (in Europe that's basically only Madrid, the French kings resided in Versailles from Louis XIV to the revolution, the English kings moved out of the City of London and even had parliament move out) but just because a monarch is somewhere doesn't make it the capital. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:53, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining all of that. And yet, wasn't Vienna thought of as the (or at least a) capital of the Austrian Empire? And St. Petersburg as capital of the Russian Empire, for example? Or did people not use that term? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:08, 18 November 2019 (UTC)


We have an extensive holiday list for Israel. Why no list for Ukraine? Cheers Ceever (talk) 21:51, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

@Ceever: The holiday list is one of the Telstra vandal's editing obsessions, so I can understand the reversion. Though I will give him this: surely it's one of his more useful habits? Isn't a country article made better with a list of national holidays, as long as it's accurate and concise? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:02, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
What is the Telstra vandal and how do I identify em? Cheers Ceever (talk) 22:16, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Typically, names plus 2-3 numbers, and there are certain kinds of edits that are typical from him. We do occasionally get false positives. And because he's proven repeatedly in the past to be unreliable, I don't trust any edit he makes except for pure typo corrections. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
👍 Ceever (talk) 18:11, 27 November 2019 (UTC)


I recently improved Patan (Gujarat). Please go through it and do needful corrections. Suggestions are welcome. -Nizil Shah (talk) 05:10, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Nizil. I'll have a look when I can. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:34, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
I made a start. I'm mostly inserting articles (a, the) so far. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

My account is under attackEdit

Swept in from the pub

Someone set up a temporary password for my account. I wasn't given the option of denying approval for it. I don't know what is going to happen. Watch out for someone impersonating me and doing nefarious things, and block this account if you have to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:36, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

same here. Ground Zero (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
Oh really? Everyone, please read this:

Account details on Wikivoyage Inbox x Wikivoyage <wiki@wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe

8:53 PM (45 minutes ago)

to me Someone (probably you, from IP address requested a reset of your password for Wikivoyage (<https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Main_Page>). The following user account is associated with this email address:

Username: Ikan Kekek

Temporary password: 3ltrnulgeu

This temporary password will expire in 7 days. You should log in and choose a new password now. If someone else made this request, or if you have remembered your original password, and you no longer wish to change it, you may ignore this message and continue using your old password.

I didn't ignore it. I wouldn't have been able to log in if I had, but I don't know if they are keylogging me or what. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:39, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Don't panic. I assume the impersonator got the temporary password sent to your email address by entering your username at Special:PasswordReset. This wouldn't require a keylogger or any other sophisticated technique. I suppose if you had ignored the message, and the impersonator doesn't have access to your email account, then you would have been able to continue logging in with your old password as before.
Does Wikivoyage support two-factor authentication? If so, that would be another layer of protection. Make sure that both Wikivoyage and your email account use strong passwords that are different from each other and from any other websites you use.
@WhatamIdoing: does the WMF have any other recommendations about account security? —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:52, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
(By the way, @Ikan Kekek: you may have just received a notification that an IP address starting with "45" tried and failed to log into your account. If so, don't worry, that was me making sure that the temporary password you posted above isn't still active.) —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:57, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
Cool. I thought I had a very strong password, but that someone had cracked it. I had just gotten a third notice a few hours ago that there had been repeated failed attempts to log in as Ikan Kekek from another device. I looked at two-factor authentication but couldn't figure out how to make it work on a laptop. I am careful to use unique passwords, as you said. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:03, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Ikan Kekek, Ground Zero: I just checked the email account associated with my Wikimedia accounts (it's an old one that's no longer my main one) and I got an identically worded message a couple hours ago, citing the same IP address which traces back to Taiwan. Unlike you, Ikan, I've never been notified of any failed attempts to log in under my name. At the moment I'm not more than mildly concerned about the integrity of this account, mainly because of Granger's explanation above - it seems (correct me if I'm wrong, Granger) that there's no reason to believe the bad actor has access to either my Wikimedia password or my email password. But, needless to say, I'll be watching out for further developments on this front and acting accordingly with regards to security if the situation should change. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:36, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

A thousand thanks for your vigilance. Ground Zero (talk) 03:44, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
I think that w:en:Wikipedia:User account security might be the best general page. m:Community Tech/Password Reset Update, when it's finished, is probably your best hope. Admins are common targets. If you need help with two-factor authentication, then it's possible that the m:Stewards could help you out. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:44, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
If what WhatamIdoing says about "admins [being] common targets" refers specifically to spurious password reset attempts, I guess this whole series of incidents represents a mere nuisance, rather than a clear and present danger to the integrity of our user accounts. In a strange way, you could almost see it as a positive development: Wikivoyage is now a big enough deal for people to bother trying this kind of thing here. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:49, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I got one of these messages, too. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:56, 14 December 2019 (UTC)


Actually, about 1100UTC+8, official sources claimed that Shantou was under lockdown, I just forgot to change Wuhan to Shantou. But anyways, the lockdown was found to be false alarm... Anyways, thanks for your help! 廣九直通車 (talk) 10:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I understand. I'm glad it was a false alarm - thank goodness for small favors. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:49, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Ready to helpEdit

Yes, Ikan, I am ready for any discussion on Kerala and Karnataka. Now I live in Mysore. Regards, --Prof TPMS (talk) 06:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year. Glad to hear from you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Sex tourism policyEdit

I'm beginning to think that we're not getting any closer to consensus on overhauling the policy. I am thinking of proposing to address the original issue by proposing to (1) specifically permit listings for saunas and other places where consenting adults have sex, and (2) prohibiting listings for saunas, bars and other establishments that allow prostitution in the premises or take payments from prostitutes or from their customers. This would address the specific issue, and let us to move the discussion onward, or come back to it later. It will not satisfy ChibbyWimbus or Pashley. Do you think there might be a consensus for this limited change? Thanks for your ongoing assistance in this discussion. Ground Zero (talk) 10:10, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I think there is a consensus for a change like that, but I think it would be not that a bar or hotel allows prostitution but that they directly profit from it, such as by accepting bar fines or taking a cut of the payment to a pimp or prostitute. I don't think there would be a consensus to delist all hotels that rent rooms with a wink and a nod, because an objection was already made that in some cities, if hotels that tolerate prostitution can't be listed, no hotels can be listed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:42, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. That is helpful. I will bring forward a modified proposal. Ground Zero (talk) 13:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)



I shouldn't be editing before morning coffee :) --Ypsilon (talk) 07:03, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Now I'm smiling, too. :-) Enjoy your day! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:07, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

About your note on addition of Colombian BrandsEdit

Just received your message, always appreciated. Sorry if it was perceived that way, I was starting to edit section with Colombian Brands but could not finish it. I will be more careful next time. Thanks for your note —The preceding comment was added by Cascianini (talkcontribs)

I already read your reply and replied to it on your user talk page. Please sign each post on a talk page by typing 4 tildes in a row at the end of the post. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:24, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Caution/Warning Box DiscussionEdit

I was wondering if you could provide some thoughts on how warning boxes and caution boxes should be used with regards to the new coronavirus outbreak. I have started a discussion over at Wikivoyage talk:Template index which appears to be the most logical place to do this. JRHorse (talk) 14:22, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I'll have a look. I don't know if there's a policy about this. If I express an opinion in the absence of one, it should be given the same weight as anyone else's opinion and no more. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:33, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Correct typos in one clickEdit

Thank you for your interest in the project, it is known that many corrections aren't the right correction since it was created automatically, the missing is not to comment about typos but to click "replace", "type" or "remove" buttons, to correct or dismiss suspect words. These buttons are added by user script as instructed in the project page. You are welcome to add the script and start correcting typos in one click. Thank you, Uziel302 (talk) 09:32, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry for inappropriately commenting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:57, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Please see my user talk pageEdit

Please see my user talk page ASAP. —Granger (talk · contribs) 03:33, 14 March 2020 (UTC)


Hello, re this, the spam itself is in what they entered into the template. This is sort of vanity spammer. This is a crosswiki spammer which did this multiple times and was globally locked for exactly this kind of behaviour. Hope you understand and this explains.--Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 10:51, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

OK, yes, I see it now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:12, 14 March 2020 (UTC)


In response to Special:Diff/3938289, according to commons:Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Belgium#Freedom of panorama, Belgium has freedom of panorama, making the image uploadable to Wikimedia Commons. GreenComputer (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, Belgium's freedom of panorama laws changed in 2016. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:41, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
That's great! In that case, carry on. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:30, 19 March 2020 (UTC)


By the way, Girga really belongs to Middle Egypt. Of course it is not well known but contains some nice examples of Islamic architecture as shown in German Wikivoyage. --RolandUnger (talk) 06:48, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm happy for anyone except the Telstra man to start an article about it at en.wikivoyage (or, of course, better, translate it from the de.wikivoyage article) and then link it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm impressed by the use of photos in the German article; looks nice. We on Envoy don't necessarily need to use more photos, but presenting them at different alignments and in larger sizes definitely works in a Wikivoyage setting, per de:Girga.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:38, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't know if I love blocks of photos in the middle of the page. It is a possible style, if we chose to use it, but so far, we have chosen not to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

translation requestEdit

Buonasera da Coreca, ti scrivo per salutarti e sapere come stai. Io sto abbastanza bene per ora. Ti chiedo una cortesia se puoi e vuoi, potresti per favore aiutarmi gentilmente alla creazione della pagina in inglese della mia cittadina? Io non sono pratico di questo portale e di questi tools, e il mio inglese fa un po' pietà. Fortuna che sto riprendendo a studiarlo all'università, sono infatti iscritto a Scienze turistiche. Naturalmente se posso fare qualcosa per te chiedi pure tranquillamente, sono a tua disposizione. Ti chiedo solo la cortesia di tradurre la paginetta di Coreca, anche per dare impulso ai corachesi che sono oltremare che non li abbiamo dimenticati e per altro ancora concernente il turismo. Certo di una tua risposta ti ringrazio in anticipo e spero di aver presto tue notizie. cordialmente!--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Ciao, Luigi! Posso aiudare di tradurre l'articolo, pero ho visto ch'il non ha tanto di sostanza al momento. C'e qualcosa da vedere lì, qualcosa da mangiare, nessun albergo? In questa condizione, dubbio francamente che vale la pena di traddurelo. Se puoi mettere più d'informazioni utili nello'articolo, sarebbe il mio piacere da comminciare un'articolo qui a en.voy. Rimani in contatto per piacere. Cordialmente, Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:32, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Buongiorno di nuovo, ho dato una bella sistemata all'articolo, ora quando vuoi e puoi lo traduci. Grazie ancora!--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 07:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Grazie ti! Comminceró di tradurre presto. Stasera, comminceró l'articolo qui. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:52, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Buongiorno da Coreca, ti scrivo per dirti che ho appena finito di migliorare la maggior parte dell'articolo in italiano, manca solo che riempi la parte degli eventi, ossia le sagre e la festa della Madonna. per il resto ti ringrazio per quello che stai facendo.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 11:43, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Prego. Lavoreró ancora per tradurre più tardi. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

User talk:EnenifloEdit

You were mentioned in a new post on that page, although without a link so you might not be aware. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

It's fine. Eneniflo knows the city s/he lives in. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:16, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Gun ownershipEdit

I'm not going to edit war on this, but I just want to point out that I've seen interviews at NRA conventions, and most people in those interviews said that they consider gun ownership to be a basic human right. Sure, I've met more people who support gun control than gun rights absolutists, but that's also because I live in Chicago, which is a deeply blue area (except for the bankers and managers, who tend to be hard core Republicans nationwide). But I would say that I wouldn't be the least surprised if half the American population considers gun ownership to be a basic human right and opposes even the slightest bit of gun control legislation. Don't forget that Fox News has the highest viewership rating among all news channel in the US. The dog2 (talk) 01:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for not edit warring about this. I don't think a rebuttal would be travel-related, so I'll let your remarks stand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
And just to make it clear, this has nothing to do with my own political opinions, and I will decline to state them here. This is just about observations I have made. I actually saw cardboard signs advertising guns at a garage sale while driving through rural Utah and Idaho, so this is certainly something that is uniquely American. You would not see thing like that in rural Australia. The dog2 (talk) 01:44, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
While public opinion polls don't ask whether respondents think gun ownership is a "basic human right", recent polls show strong majorities in the US in favour of greater restrictions. I haven't found polls on the question of "fun control legislation". That would be a different matter. ;-) Ground Zero (talk) 01:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah. I think the geographical distribution of those survey results would vary widely. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:39, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: By the way, I heard there was a mass shooting in Canada a few days ago. Is everything fine on your end? The dog2 (talk) 03:41, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
@The dog2: Yes, I'm fine. Thanks for asking. It is a horrific nothing to happen in a quiet, friendly place like small town Nova Scotia. It's hard to fathom why that happened. Ground Zero (talk) 11:40, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Very unusual for Canada, but there are crazy people everywhere. I didn't think you lived in Nova Scotia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:28, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
No, I'm in Toronto. But I don't expect people to remember that. I have family and friends in many provinces, but none in Nova Scotia at the moment. Ground Zero (talk) 12:38, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm aware that Canada is a huge country, bigger than the U.S. and smaller than only Russia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

USA as a land of contrastsEdit

Do you think this is worth mentioning in the main USA article. At least I think it's interesting for people to know. For instance, the US is the undisputed number one in the world in medical research, but fares the worst in the developed world in terms of access to healthcare for the average person. It is home to the highest concentration of the world's greatest scientists, but also home to the highest proportion of non-believers in science in the developed world. It has the highest concentration of the world's top university, but the public school system for K-12 fares poorly by the developed world's standards. And GDP per capita is at an all-time high (at least it was before COVID-19 hit), but the average salary of the bottom 50% has declined over the past 30 years. There's probably more, but these are just some I can think of. The dog2 (talk) 23:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Maybe, but best to discuss it at Talk:United States of America. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:03, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Removing of changesEdit

Why there is other dive centers listed in Aqaba article. I just want to give people more information. There is more than 20 dive centers in Aqaba. Why listed only 3? Natalia Zlobina (talk) 09:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Read Wikivoyage:Don't tout, then ask me or someone else questions if there's anything you still don't understand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 16 May 2020 (UTC)


Hi IK. Just a heads-up: whenever you see an anonymous IP starting with 217.19. substituting "Transnistria" for "Pridnestrovie", don't even think of doubting, it's a local nationalist trying to "stamp out the Romanian Nazi cultural domination" and the despised Latin (aka Romanian) term. They're active in Wikipedia, too. Block, revert, ignore. Ibaman (talk) 11:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

They never participate in discussions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:40, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
When they do, they usually call us "gay Nazi supremacists". You might remember some of these. I actually denied recognition on some such profanities in Talk:Transnistria not a long ago. 22:21, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
I do remember one such individual. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
  • another heads-up. Keep an eye on this IP number that made a lot of edits today. It's a pattern of enforcing British spelling, oddly familiar to me. I'm getting positive it's somebody we know. Ibaman (talk) 01:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I've tangled with this editor before. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm glad you're on watch as of this moment. Let's act together if needed. Ibaman (talk) 01:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Do you remember the IP user who was really nasty to StellarD - and wrong - in the Dhofar article? I don't think they were ever blocked, because they use various different IPs and their irrelevant changes to English English spellings and expressions, editing out of colorful language and ornariness have skirted the line. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
The thing is, though, ornery or not, he's absolutely right: it's Southeast Asian, and his citation of Wv:Capitalization is correct. I routinely correct these kinds of capitalization errors. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
The loss of lively prose is what saddens me the most. I thought of hard revert, but would ask for opinions first. Ibaman (talk) 03:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
That's his M.O. If you'd like me to give my opinion, are there any specific edits you can link? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Btw, I'm also irritated by the "dullification" of our lively prose this user engages in. And the fact that the IP changes all the time, so there's no real way to talk to them. I'm beginning to think that allowing IP-user edits is more trouble than it's worth; it's not difficult to take a minute to set up an account - the Telstra guy manages it multiple times a day! - and it would be a lot better for us.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

[undent] I would tend to oppose that. I edited as an IP for years before I registered, and I'm not unique in that respect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I used to comment on web content, or make corrections, now and then when it was possible. A few times I registered an account to do so. Quite soon I decided not to bother. If they don't want my input as a passer by, why would I? I haven't even registered my account at Phabricator – the few comments I'd have liked to make have not seemed worth the trouble. When registering, there are often captchas, questions compromising my privacy (I could lye of course, but I don't always feel like), need to come up with one more password (and perhaps even save it somewhere), user agreements, ... I have to really know I want to invest in that particular site to make the effort. --LPfi (talk) 10:54, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I get those arguments. They make sense. I guess we just have to try harder to talk to this person's IPs before they change.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:06, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
I wouldn't hold out much hope. I've been dealing with this guy for years. Please revert any dullification. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:24, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

About XinjiangEdit

I can see that your post was targeted at me, so I want to clarify. I am not trying to promote the Chinese government's narrative, and for that matter I did not quote Chinese state media at all. I am well aware that they serve as the Chinese government's propaganda mouthpiece, which is why I don't trust them. I was in fact the one who added the point in the China article that black people are being discriminated against in China (which the Chinese government downplayed). I am just skeptical of the mainstream Western corporate media's narrative (and if you count yourself as a progressive, I hope you can understand why) as well (and I've been getting more and more skeptical as I grow older). And just to be clear, I am not disputing the fact that the detention camps exist, or that the Chinese government has launched a harsh crackdown on political dissent in the region and detained many Uyghurs. I was just raising some concerns about how that figure was arrived at, but if you are sure that the study was done properly to arrive at that estimate, I won't stand in your way. If you can find some fault in the concerns raised in those articles I cited in the discussion, you're welcome to let me know if I am perhaps missing something. The dog2 (talk) 01:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

My friend, when I ask a question, it's a question, not a statement, and it's not intended to cast aspersions on anyone. I know very well that you are a person of good faith and not a propagandist of any kind. I'm disappointed that you misunderstood my intentions or thought that I could have such a crazy notion of who or what you are, and I'm sorry I unintentionally offended you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
No worries. I apologise too if I misunderstood your intentions. At least everything is clear now. The dog2 (talk) 03:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
We're cool. I asked the question because I thought you and a couple of other regulars might know better than I. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:00, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

VOA accountEdit

Hello. Please block User:‎Gisela Lázaro. --Minorax (talk) 03:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

That was already taken care of. Thanks for your vigilance. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:51, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Greetings and an help for CorecaEdit

Ciao, ti scrivo per salutarti e sapere come stai. Io sto abbastanza bene per ora. Ho finito di scrivere su Coreca, quando puoi e vuoi ti andrebbe di tradurre la parte restante? in modo che io possa farla tradurre in altre lingue. Per il resto spero che vada tutto bene, qui piove e sembra febbraio, mah! Comunque domani sei invitato virtualmente a prendere un aperitivo da me a Coreca, compio infatti 35 anni, e quella notte di 35 anni fa, venni alla luce vicino la Chiesetta di Coreca, poi venni portato e dichiarato a Paola...ma storia lunga che non sto qui a raccontarti per ora. Ti ringrazio per tutto il possibile che fai per me, grazie ancora e a presto!--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 15:18, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Tanti auguri per l'anniversario! Mi dispiace di dimenticare quel progetto di traduzione. Il mio computer era offline per due settimane e mezzo prima di questa settimana. Tentaró da fare ancora un pó. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Excuse me, I'll write in English for a second: I have to admit this isn't one of my major priorities, so I've been slow with this. I'll try to get back to it, but it might not be quick. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)


Hi. In addition to what I wrote back in May, another reservation I have about districtifying Rockingham is how new the user is. As of the time of writing, they have less than 20 edits to their name, and before today hadn't edited for almost a month. I'd be worried that they'd get started on districtifying, then disappear for a long period, or possibly forever, leaving the job unfinished.

Would you mind confirming whether this is a reasonable doubt to have? If so, is it reasonable to bring it up with the user if they do make a proper, detailed, district proposal? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's reasonable to ask the proposer to see it through. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for confirming. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:46, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Off topicEdit

Very off topic here, through Andre, I found you on Facebook, and sent you a friend request. Very gladly. Andre's postings and updates are a big plus in my timeline, mas it's nice to have other channels to communicate. I hope you add me there as well. Let's keep together in these times of tribulation, as I told him. Alô the best as always. Ibaman (talk) 19:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Cool. Send me a message there, too, so I know who I'm looking for. I otherwise probably wouldn't recognize you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Just did it again. By the way, this time I'm really hopeful, the right-wing clowns shall not prevail down here in my country. Ibaman (talk) 03:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm glad it's easier to impeach leaders and remove them from office in Brazil than in the U.S. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:53, 24 June 2020 (UTC)


Hi. I think I may have pushed back too aggressively on Travellers' Pub#Blanking the user page in question and on Carrotflower's talk page. If I upset or irritated you, I'm sorry.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

It's not worth further discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
that's how you respond to an apology?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:42, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I was a little irritated, but it's really not worth thinking about or discussing more. We're cool. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Okay, cool.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)


I've seen in the page in the subject that you are the most active bureaucrat, so I've contacted you to take care about my nomination in Wikivoyage:User rights nominations to allow me to proceed autonomously on the listing editor's development. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:35, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I've been watching it. As stated at Wikivoyage:User rights nominations, we wait 14 days before promoting people with successful nominations, so I'll take care of this later today if no other bureaucrat beats me to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:21, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Ok thanks. I'll wait for you, to update the script and ask in the lounge to formally test it, before activating it to all users. --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:08, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:05, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for bothering you again. As specified by WOSlinker I need to be also interface administrator to change MediaWiki pages. Could you add me to that group too? Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 06:25, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
No problem. Done. Carry on! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! :-) --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:36, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your work! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:41, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Kribi, Cameroon and Article HeadingsEdit

Hi. I saw your proofreading note "Wikivoyage hasn't used "Get out" for years. I hope none of this article was copied from Wikitravel!" - thanks for that. Sorry, I was just flying off the cuff trying to remember the standard template for Wikivoyage articles and put that in erroneously. I'm very amateur at this, hope to go over more of the tutorials for contributing to Wikivoyage as time goes along. But, don't worry, it is my original work, what I put down there for Kribi. Thanks. Lazarus1255 (talk) 18:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Lazarus1255

Great. The easiest way to produce a standard article template is to do a search for the article name you want to start, click the link that says "Create the page "[whatever]" on this wiki!", and then when you see "To start, please click on one of the following links to pre-fill this article with the standard sections:
City • City District • Region • National Park • Phrasebook • Huge airport • Dive site • Disambiguation • Redirect" and click the type of article you want to start. That will produce the template you need.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I'll try to follow that from here on out. Lazarus1255 (talk) 00:20, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Hello Ikan Kekek, thanks for pointing out the mistake and amended it. It was not intentional. Will pay more attention next time. Thanks Heyorange (talk) 04:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
OK, good. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:20, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Diseases named after people, places and animalsEdit

The WHO has taken far too long, but they issued a recommendation a few years ago to not do that. So in fact, diseases might have to be named for something, but they should no longer be named for any of the above due to the very notable negative effects... Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Understood. But that doesn't make place names after which diseases were named thereby unusual names. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
It does not, indeed. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:58, 10 August 2020 (UTC)


Why you deleted the page?--MSClaudiu (talk) 10:17, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Already addressed on your user talk page, but if you have any further questions after you read that, please do ask, and I'll be glad to discuss this further. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:19, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The articleEdit

Hi! You recently left me a message about an article that I created. I have moved it to my userspace and will put it into mainspace when the time is right. Thanks for your help! Prahlad balaji (talk) 22:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)


Thanks for copyediting my article, Queen Creek. Could you give me tips on how to properly create an article? Thanks. --Prahlad balaji (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Sure. For that kind of article, you'd want to start with Wikivoyage:Quick small city article template, but the simplest way to do that is to do a search for the title you want to write about, click on it if nothing exists there and then select "City" from the options you're given of what kind of article to write. Then, presto, the small city template appears!
A second point is to check for articles about other towns and if they exist, avoid including listings for anything in those towns in the article you started. Also, please avoid red links like Maricopa County, Arizona which will never be the name of an article (see Wikivoyage:Naming conventions), and avoid including any encyclopedic content from Wikipedia that's unsuited to a travel guide. Also make sure to cite the Wikipedia article you gleaned content from in an edit summary and/or on the article's talk page.
Finally, if you're not looking at the article history to read other editors' edit summaries, please do!
Anything else you'd like to know?
Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Nothing! Thanks! Prahlad balaji (talk) 03:43, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Sure thing. If anything else occurs to you, by all means post here again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:04, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Update request for Hagia Sophia and ChoraEdit


Can you rewrite and update the status of Hagia Sophia and Chora, after they were converted into mosques, in any article they appear şn Wikivoyage? After their conversion, i.e. after their museum status were dropped and reopened as mosques, no entrance fee is charged anymore. However, as they are now mosques, a strict dress code has been introduced to every visitor, whether they are tourists or worshippers. Veils are compulsory for females, and entering them in miniskirts, shorts (for both genders) and sleeveless shirts (for both genders) are now banned, like in any other mosque. However, as they are tourist attractions, just like the Blue Mosque, veils and sarong-like clothes will be sold or issued. During prayer time, just as it is the case in the Blue Mosque, tourists will not be allowed to enter and all the Christian frescoes and symbols are covered. See also news sources for the latest information.

Yours sincerely, an IP from Turkey 17:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

In the time it took to write this, you could have made the changes you're asking me to make. So why don't you? Wikis are for everyone to edit; editing is not a job that's given to admins, and I'll remind you that like you, we are purely volunteers. It's not like we get paid for this. So plunge forward and make the edits! Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
this user reported issues of slowed-down Internet in Turkey that prevented him of doing so. I made some updates on these listings. Ibaman (talk) 00:12, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
I see. Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:19, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Thank you for giving me tips on creating articles! It really helped me. Prahlad balaji (talk) 04:18, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Sure thing! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Greetings and an help for CorecaEdit

Buongiorno da Coreca, ti scrivo per salutarti e sapere come stai, io sto abbastanza bene. Ti scrivo inoltre per chiederti se puoi aiutarmi "solo" a correggere gli errori che ho fatto di traduzione e di battutitura. Naturalmente se posso fare qualcosa per te chiedi pure. un saluto e a presto!--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 02:29, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Ciao, Luigi. Vedrò più tardi. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


Hi! I just made a content of Goryeong, and you left me a message about references. I am not copying but using the references in the cite. I am confused of how I should cite this in this case? Thanks in advance! —The preceding comment was added by Gyeongbuker (talkcontribs)

Sure. First of all, a preliminary: On talk pages on this site, please sign your username at the end of each of your posts by typing 4 tildes (~) in a row. OK, the way we cite sources we refer to is to put the information in an edit summary, which we type in the "Summary" box you will see below your edit screen. But the other issue is that the format you used is not at all in keeping with Wikivoyage style, so please also look at Wikivoyage:Small city article template and also have a look at any small city article in Category:Star articles or Category:Guide articles to see what Wikivoyage articles look like. For example, the Albuquerque article is a star article. I think it uses a Wikivoyage:Large city article template. Ann Arbor may use a small city article template. But those are just the first two cities whose articles I see among the star articles in alphabetical order. Look around and then ask me any other questions that occur to you.
Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a bit difficult, but thanks! It helped a lot. Gyeongbuker (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2020 (UTC)Gyeongbuker

OK, but please look at your user talk page again. You might want to look at existing articles that need edits at first before you start any more articles. I'm not sure the county articles are needed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Westport UpdatesEdit

Hi Ilhan, thanks for your reminders, you can probably tell I'm new at this. I will update as you requested -- except for "The Adventure HQ" is actually their byline for that business. One of the other things I haven't figured out is how to append my reply to your message -- I tried looking it up and was at a loss. I'll figure it out soon.--PDXMaria (talk) 05:17, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Just click "edit", skip a line, type a colon to indent and type your reply. I think I already took care of the things I mentioned to you. I know you're a new user. Welcome! We were all new once. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:06, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
By the way, I would still make the point that "well-appointed" doesn't really say anything but is a favorite term of hotel marketers. It's most useful to the traveler to describe the appearance with specifics. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
PDXMaria, could you explain a little more about how "The Adventure HQ" is a genuine alternate name and not a promotional slogan? The fact that they, say, put it on their letterhead or whatever wouldn't change that, but I think I may not have understood what you mean by "byline". Also, I'd like a reply to my previous post. "Well-appointed" is on the list of words to avoid, for the reasons mentioned there: "Hotel companies love to use this phrase; travellers are still trying to figure out what it means." Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:31, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for your pointers. Doing the best I can. To your earlier comments - I'm a tourist actually staying in Carters Beach for the last six months so am an enthusiastic supporter of the local area, and of the motel that I've been living in (Carters by the Sea). I do think "well-appointed" means something to travelers, at least to me and I don't think I'm alone; given the controversy, I took it out and overall simplified the listing. Re: "The Adventure HQ" -- it's on their building, I'll double-check today when I go into town and stop in to talk to them.--PDXMaria (talk) 23:03, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
Great! And thank you very much for adding content that's helpful to other travellers! That's the entire point of this guide and what can make it so much better! Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Charleston New ZealandEdit

Hi Ikan, thank you for adding the banner for Charleston. I was going to struggle with it later. I had uploaded an image to WikiCommons, and was going to work with that. I'm grateful that you jumped in! --PDXMaria (talk) 02:30, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome. By all means, replace the default banner when you can!
A word on how to most easily insert a WV:Small city article template into a new article:
(1) Type the name of the place in the "Search Wikivoyage" box on the upper right; (2) If there is no preexisting article, you'll get the results 'Create the page "[Name]" on this wiki!'; (3) Click on the red-linked name in that result; (4) In the third paragraph under the "Creating [Name]" heading, you'll see "To start, please click on one of the following links to pre-fill this article with the standard sections:"; (5) Click "City" on the line below that. Then just start filling in content! Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:42, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, Ikan, for those tips. Hopefully that'll help me not lose a bunch of work. The way I first started it was by copying/pasting from Westport and then modifying it.. and an hour later I lost all my work. Oh well.
Q: The Westport listing doesn't have (New Zealand) after the name on the article page. Charleston does. Which should it be?
Q: When I Google "wikivoyage charleston nz" the article doesn't come up. I can find it when I go to WikiVoyage first, but only if I put in NZ -- if I don't put in NZ, Charleston doesn't come up in the list. Is there anything I can do to fix either of these? --PDXMaria (talk) 03:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
I see what you mean: You're referring to what name is shown on the pagebanner. I fixed the issue for now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:25, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Take a look, it now says Westport, should I just Undo what you did? I don't know how to fix that. --PDXMaria (talk) 03:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
I just learned something, fixed the banner label. --PDXMaria (talk) 03:50, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of that. Sorry for the mistake. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

This meant a lot to me. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Sure thing. There's a time and place for that kind of talk, and that isn't it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


You sure that not joking about the BB is Captain Obvious? I saw a video once of a guy describing his experience visiting a Nazi death camp, and the first thing everyone did was take out their cameras. One couple even took a selfie in the cremation room! Mainmast Ballaster (talk) 14:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not only not joking, but not joking about terrorist atrocities is specifically mentioned at Wikivoyage:Captain Obvious. Photography at Nazi death camps is something else, and is specifically addressed, for example, at Auschwitz#Respect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:02, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Labial ToysEdit

Can you please block Special:Contributions/ and delete Wikivoyage:Labial Toys? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Also Labial Toys DannyS712 (talk) 19:34, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Have dealt with this.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of this, ThunderingTyphoons! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:52, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Ikeep thinking of jokes in russianEdit

I am back, of sorts, after a very debilitaing illness, will give chapter and verse off wiki trust youare well !!! cheers JarrahTree (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I have stayed well during this pandemic so far. I'm very sorry to hear about your illness, and I hope you're fully recovered. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I have been told patience, sabar, and I am very pleased you have avoided the lurgie.. JarrahTree (talk) 04:32, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Problemantic editorEdit

meta:Special:CentralAuth/YaoSissi2020 is globally locked, that may be why an IP editor tried to edit the page. The editor is also banned on en-wiki due to sockpuppetry.

If you are an Admin on the Commons, it might be worth looking at the editor's history there as well, under all of the socks including the suspected IP address used to edit User:YaoSissy2020 here. Davidwr (talk) 14:35, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I participate on Commons but I'm an admin only on Wikivoyage. I appreciate the info, but it really wouldn't change my behavior, except that I'll be a bit more watchful for any further issues with that IP user. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:43, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Yoga spammerEdit

Just so you know, the IP editor whose edits you reverted for touting actually created an account known as Skmishra5, which I had earlier banned for being a spambot. I've blocked the IP address for 6 months for block evasion, but please feel free to reduce the length of the block if you think it's too harsh. The dog2 (talk) 21:19, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Please don't disable talk page and email access for IP blocks unless absolutely necessary—if the IP address is reassigned or shared (which is common), it makes it almost impossible for users accidentally caught up in the block to tell us about the problem. I would also say that a 6-month block is way too long as a response to 17 minutes of touting from an IP address. Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits suggests three days as an initial length when blocking is necessary. Thanks for removing the touting, by the way. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Granger, doesn't block evasion by a registered user trigger an automatic indefinite block? The equivalent of that for an IP address would be like 3 months, or at least 1 month. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I have adjusted the block settings to allow for email and talk page access, but I want to mention that the user was not just inserting touty language into articles. After I reverted Skmishra5's edits for touting (and provided to link to the relevant policy page in the edit summary, so the user should have been pinged on that), (s)he proceeded to create a page with no travel content and only advertising for their his/her business, which is why I proceeded to ban the user as a spambot. And the IP editor in question made the exact same edit as Skimshra5 after I had banned him/her, which is why this constitutes block evasion. I'm happy to reduce the block length to 1 month or 3 months if that's what both of you think is more proportionate an action. The dog2 (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for restoring email and talk page access. As far as I can tell, this tout's edits took place over a total of less than two hours, with less than 20 minutes coming from the anonymous IP. I don't see that an IP block of multiple months makes sense on that basis, considering that it's common for IP addresses to change or be shared. But I'll defer to you two on that. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:46, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I see. Yeah, a bit of lenience could be offered in that situation. However, I think I'd block for a month but leave a user talk page message. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I'll reduce the block to one month, and restore talk page and email access to the tout's account. The reason why I came down so harsh is because (s)he was not just inserting touty listings into existing articles, but also creating pages with only touting and no travel content, but I guess we can be lenient in this case since was over a relatively short period. If the user starts using his/her talk page for touting, then I'll restore the block. The dog2 (talk) 15:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Let me clarify that I'm not really thinking of this in terms of lenience vs. harshness, but rather a matter of costs vs. benefits to the project and avoiding collateral damage. Since the tout was active very briefly, there's not much reason to think they'll try to come back months from now, and there's not much reason for confidence that they'll still have the same IP address months from now either. (So the expected benefits of a long block are relatively low, and the risk of collateral damage is relatively high, compared to a disruptive user who is active at the same IP address multiple times over a period of weeks or months.) If they do start touting again from the same IP address after a month it will be very easy to block it again. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:57, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I agree. I also don't think a month-long block is lenient. The next time, it could be 3 months, but that's really unnecessary when we're dealing with a low-volume tout. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


Hi Ikan!

Thanks for adding more POIs to the Broadway itinerary. I added listings that were in the articles (all See listings, and some Do and Buy listings that are notable/famous, like the Macy's department store, or seemed notable based on their descriptions), but I wasn't sure which other places merit a listing. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:39, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

You bet! I feel like an itinerary up Broadway requires more listings so that people know something about the interesting buildings they're passing. I'll eventually add the listings to the district articles, too, but there's a lot more to add. w:Broadway (Manhattan)#Notable buildings will be useful to us, and w:List of buildings and structures on Broadway in Manhattan will probably be useful, too. I'll remember to look through those articles for buildings I recognize, like and/or consider important. For the Bronx and other points north, w:U.S. Route 9 in New York looks like it'll be useful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Mozart opera overturesEdit

I've watched Le Nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Così fan tutte and Die Zauberflöte, and as far as I recall, none of those operas feature snippets of later musical numbers in their overture. Do you know of any Mozart operas that do? The dog2 (talk) 21:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Listen again. I think all 4 do, but Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro and Die Zauberflöte certainly do. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:30, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


Yea sorry about that, no disruption intended, I didn't read the sentence properly when I did that --Thegooduser (talk) 01:25, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Not a problem! Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

small typo in your last postingEdit

16:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC) —The preceding comment was added by Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

Hi. I have no idea which edit you're referring to, but any time I make a small typo, just edit it, either with the "minor edit" symbol or with an edit summary of "typo" or something. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)