Hello, everybody! If you'd like to discuss anything with me, please post new topics at the bottom of the page and sign the posts with 4 tildes (the ~ key) in a row. Thanks!

Currently inactive discussions can be found at User talk:Ikan Kekek/archive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Yoga spammerEdit

Just so you know, the IP editor whose edits you reverted for touting actually created an account known as Skmishra5, which I had earlier banned for being a spambot. I've blocked the IP address for 6 months for block evasion, but please feel free to reduce the length of the block if you think it's too harsh. The dog2 (talk) 21:19, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Please don't disable talk page and email access for IP blocks unless absolutely necessary—if the IP address is reassigned or shared (which is common), it makes it almost impossible for users accidentally caught up in the block to tell us about the problem. I would also say that a 6-month block is way too long as a response to 17 minutes of touting from an IP address. Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits suggests three days as an initial length when blocking is necessary. Thanks for removing the touting, by the way. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Granger, doesn't block evasion by a registered user trigger an automatic indefinite block? The equivalent of that for an IP address would be like 3 months, or at least 1 month. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I have adjusted the block settings to allow for email and talk page access, but I want to mention that the user was not just inserting touty language into articles. After I reverted Skmishra5's edits for touting (and provided to link to the relevant policy page in the edit summary, so the user should have been pinged on that), (s)he proceeded to create a page with no travel content and only advertising for their his/her business, which is why I proceeded to ban the user as a spambot. And the IP editor in question made the exact same edit as Skimshra5 after I had banned him/her, which is why this constitutes block evasion. I'm happy to reduce the block length to 1 month or 3 months if that's what both of you think is more proportionate an action. The dog2 (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for restoring email and talk page access. As far as I can tell, this tout's edits took place over a total of less than two hours, with less than 20 minutes coming from the anonymous IP. I don't see that an IP block of multiple months makes sense on that basis, considering that it's common for IP addresses to change or be shared. But I'll defer to you two on that. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:46, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I see. Yeah, a bit of lenience could be offered in that situation. However, I think I'd block for a month but leave a user talk page message. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I'll reduce the block to one month, and restore talk page and email access to the tout's account. The reason why I came down so harsh is because (s)he was not just inserting touty listings into existing articles, but also creating pages with only touting and no travel content, but I guess we can be lenient in this case since was over a relatively short period. If the user starts using his/her talk page for touting, then I'll restore the block. The dog2 (talk) 15:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Let me clarify that I'm not really thinking of this in terms of lenience vs. harshness, but rather a matter of costs vs. benefits to the project and avoiding collateral damage. Since the tout was active very briefly, there's not much reason to think they'll try to come back months from now, and there's not much reason for confidence that they'll still have the same IP address months from now either. (So the expected benefits of a long block are relatively low, and the risk of collateral damage is relatively high, compared to a disruptive user who is active at the same IP address multiple times over a period of weeks or months.) If they do start touting again from the same IP address after a month it will be very easy to block it again. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:57, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
I agree. I also don't think a month-long block is lenient. The next time, it could be 3 months, but that's really unnecessary when we're dealing with a low-volume tout. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


Hi Ikan!

Thanks for adding more POIs to the Broadway itinerary. I added listings that were in the articles (all See listings, and some Do and Buy listings that are notable/famous, like the Macy's department store, or seemed notable based on their descriptions), but I wasn't sure which other places merit a listing. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:39, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

You bet! I feel like an itinerary up Broadway requires more listings so that people know something about the interesting buildings they're passing. I'll eventually add the listings to the district articles, too, but there's a lot more to add. w:Broadway (Manhattan)#Notable buildings will be useful to us, and w:List of buildings and structures on Broadway in Manhattan will probably be useful, too. I'll remember to look through those articles for buildings I recognize, like and/or consider important. For the Bronx and other points north, w:U.S. Route 9 in New York looks like it'll be useful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Mozart opera overturesEdit

I've watched Le Nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Così fan tutte and Die Zauberflöte, and as far as I recall, none of those operas feature snippets of later musical numbers in their overture. Do you know of any Mozart operas that do? The dog2 (talk) 21:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Listen again. I think all 4 do, but Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro and Die Zauberflöte certainly do. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:30, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


Yea sorry about that, no disruption intended, I didn't read the sentence properly when I did that --Thegooduser (talk) 01:25, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Not a problem! Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

small typo in your last postingEdit

16:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC) —The preceding comment was added by Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

Hi. I have no idea which edit you're referring to, but any time I make a small typo, just edit it, either with the "minor edit" symbol or with an edit summary of "typo" or something. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Ikan Kekek I can't remember which typo I was looking at, but I can probably find it if it is important to you. By the way the reason I notified you is because fixing typos in someone's else comments is considered taboo on enwiki. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:03, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh, this is in a talk page post by me? You can give me a link to the edit next time. Just click the "History" tab in the relevant talk page and look for the specific difference. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Usually small typos are just left alone. If the meaning becomes unclear because of the typo, one can ask in the thread (or – if warranted for some reason – on the user talk page, linking the edit or section). Link fixes and the like are sometimes done in others' comments, but that is delicate enough that I don't want to give advice on it. –LPfi (talk) 21:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I leave typos in other people's comments on talk pages alone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:16, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
I am giving you this for all your hard work on Wikivoyage. Cupper52 (talk) 09:00, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I appreciate your understanding. I've deleted several of the links you've added because they were circular (ended up going back to the same page) or red (no such article). Keep on editing, and don't hesitate to ask me any question you like. Within reason (no meaning of life or whether there's a Supreme Being, you know). :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Da capo ariasEdit

I'm a little torn on this, so I'd like to ask if you think it's worth mentioning what this term means. You'll need to know it if you watch a Baroque, Rococo or even early Classical period opera, though as we know, the only operas of those periods that are in the modern standard repertoire are the Handel and Gluck operas, and the operas that people are most likely to watch today are those from the Romantic period onwards; even Mozart operas don't really feature da capo arias. So yeah, I can also see the argument that this is going too far into the weeds for an average traveller looking to see an opera, since it's highly unlikely that a traveller will get the chance to watch an opera by say, Vivaldi or Josef Myslivecek. The dog2 (talk) 07:53, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean whether to include the term in European classical music#Terminology? I'd say no, though if we ever spin off a topic on opera, then we should include it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But since you brought it up, do you think we have enough material to spin off an article about opera? It's true that I like hunting down more obscure Baroque to Classical period operas since there are many hidden gems that are not by Mozart, Gluck or Handel, but I'm certainly no expert. And since you're a flautist, I recommend you check out André Grétry. The aria La Fauvette from his opera Zémire et Azor has very exquisite flute solo parts. The dog2 (talk) 08:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I like Gretry and have played some recorder music by him. I've never seen any operas by him, though. I think a travel topic on opera and opera houses is possible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:38, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Here's an example. Unfortunately, this is an abridged version and not the full version. The aria that I mentioned starts at 44:29. Even though the opera is quite obscure, the aria is a rather famous one and I think you probably would have heard it before. The dog2 (talk) 01:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the link! I don't recognize the aria. Too bad the flutist isn't very good. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Here's a concert version with a better flautist then: [1]. The dog2 (talk) 02:34, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, that performance was way better! Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Speaking of which, if we ever decide to spin off a topic, should we have one single article for both opera and ballet, or separate articles for each one? After all, ballets are usually performed in opera houses, and there are numerous operas, in particular the French ones, that feature ballet segments. And as you know, even Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro and Handel's Alcina both feature dance segments (though I'm not sure if those dance segments would be considered ballet). The dog2 (talk) 22:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

It really depends on how much travel-related content there is. Going to an opera is a very distinct experience from going to a ballet even when you're seeing an opera that includes ballets. For now, I think we should try to improve the article on European classical music, though my heart isn't in it during this extended enforced period of non-performance in the U.S. I also want to delete the totally inadequate list of Broadway songwriters and songs from the Musical theatre article. With all due respect, it sucks, and we aren't going to make it good because long lists are for Wikipedia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
No offence taken. I agree that long lists are problematic, but I think we need to think of a way to cover the important figures in the development of musical theatre. At the very least, I think Cole Porter, Rodgers & Hammerstain, Stephen Sondheim and Andrew Lloyd Webber need to be mentioned, and there are probably others I am missing out to. I've watched two operas and a ballet at the Met, and my hunch is that an opera is more formal, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, you'll find lots of young people who can appreciate ballet, but not a lot who can appreciate opera. I might have the only person under 50 in the audience those times I went to watch an opera. I most certainly understand your frustration; my family is now seeing their lives slowly get back to normal in Singapore, while I'm stuck in America alone having to deal with this nonsense thanks to work commitments, but let's both hope that things will get better next year, and we can start going to shows once more. The dog2 (talk) 01:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
And playing concerts again! I think there are too many classic Broadway show composers and lyricists we'd need to cover. Let's not bite off more than we can chew. Wikipedia covers such details. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:24, 6 December 2020 (UTC)


Thanks for the addition. I was somewhat uneasy leaving it at that, but did not easily find a way to word it well. The WP article I was using said nothing of the sort in the intro, and the part on the topic was too convoluted. So I hoped somebody would come along :-) LPfi (talk) 23:23, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Sure thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)


I added something about the definition of libretto in the European classical music article, so could you please check to see that there's no mistake. Also, if I'm not wrong, the equivalent of a libretto in musical theatre is known the book, and I added a sentence describing that in the relevant article. Please feel free to delete if I made any mistakes. The dog2 (talk) 21:11, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I saw the edits on libretti and they looked fine to me. In terms of the book for a musical, I don't think that's quite equivalent because to my understanding, it doesn't include the lyrics of the songs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:25, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I mentioned that in musical theatre article. So correct me if I'm wrong, but that would mean that in a sung-through musical like Les Miserables, there would only be lyrics but no book. The dog2 (talk) 21:31, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't think that's right. The book would have all the staging and lighting directions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
OK. You're probably more familiar with this thing than I am since you're a professional musician, so if you don't mind, perhaps you could make corrections in the musical theatre article. And maybe add more important terminology that I may have missed out. The dog2 (talk) 21:48, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I want to double-check on this. I think I'm right but I'm not positive. Musical theater isn't my area of greatest expertise. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:56, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
I did a bit of Internet research. I'll ask my girlfriend for her opinion, but the sources I looked at didn't seem to include lighting, costuming and blocking directions in the book, but w:Musical theatre did include staging directions, so maybe that's just an oversight. I just made this edit, because I kind of doubt people would be talking about musicals without spoken dialogue as "bookless". But work in progress. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

"Germany existed in the 19th century before it was unified"Edit

I would actually vehemently dispute this statement. Especially when one attempts to define a "German" identity that excludes Austria. And even then, what about all those border regions where Germans were either one ethnic group among many or even a minority? "Where to draw the line" was an important issue at the very least until 1870/1871 among German nationalists and it did not fully disappear from discourse until 1990 (well, among the non far right anyway) which is coincidentally right around the time the original version of Art. 23 GG was removed which allowed for it to be "applied to other parts of Germany" - an irredentist clause if ever there was one... Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:00, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

People talked about Germany and Germans in the 18th century, too. I've read Quantz, remember. Maybe the exact differences between Germans and Austrians were fuzzy, but the concept of Germany and a German certainly existed, just as the concept of Italy and Italians existed. And I daresay, there's way more difference among Italians than among Germans. Are there any dialects of German spoken within Germany (or for that matter, Austria) that you don't understand? Do you speak Italian? I speak what's pretty much Toscana at a good conversational level in practice. I don't understand Napoletano and neither do the Senesi and other Northern Italians that I knew. That's not surprising when you see that linguists are now calling Napoletano a separate language. Spanish and Italian are more more mutually intelligible than Napoletano and standard Italian. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:12, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
There was certainly a concept of a "German people" even though they were divided into multiple small states. To my knowledge, Mozart identified as a German even though Salzburg is today part of Austria. And if you've watched some 18th-century operas like Mozart's Don Giovanni or Haydn's Orlando Paladino, they do reference Germany as a concept (as Alemagna; yes I know the term in modern Italian is Germania, but you get the point). And likewise, Italy existed as a concept even though it was not a unified country, since Mozart's Don Giovanni does mention Italia. What's perhaps most surprising is that the 18th-century Italians knew that China and Japan existed too, given that Haydn's Orlando Paladino mentions Pechino (Beijing) and Giappone (Japan)
But anyway, with regards to the "German" identity, my understanding is that the Austrians considered themselves to be Germans until well after World War II, given that Hitler was actually from Austria, and was very popular in Austria, and among the German-speaking minorities in Poland and Czechoslovakia. And to my understanding, the reason why the Swiss stayed neutral was as a compromise, because most of the Swiss-Germans wanted Switzerland to ally with Hitler, while the Swiss-French wanted Switzerland to ally with France. The dog2 (talk) 17:18, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
continental west Germanic languages once upon a time formed a dialect continuum including large parts of Benelux, Switzerland and into neighboring countries. A number of Swiss German dialects have survived which have a similar degree of partial intelligibility as Dutch. Luxembourg is trilingual with "German", French and Luxembourgish. It might have been considered "German" in 1820. The term was often used in the plural "die deutschen Lande" because the concept was so fuzzy.
As for Italy, the peninsula is a geographic feature regardless of politics and the term was in use in Roman times... And Europeans love using Roman terms Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Well, at least back in the 1840s some Germans celebrated Germany's thousand years of existence, as per Max Stirner: "Listen, even as I am writing this, the bells begin to sound, that they may jingle in for tomorrow the festival of the thousand years' existence of our dear Germany. Sound, sound its knell! You do sound solemn enough, as if your tongue was moved by the presentiment that it is giving convoy to a corpse. The German people and German peoples have behind them a history of a thousand years: what a long life! O, go to rest, never to rise again - that all may become free whom you so long have held in fetters. - The people is dead. - Up with me !" --Ypsilon (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the interesting thread. I'll address only a side point: Why would anyone be surprised that Italians in the 18th century knew about Japan and China? One Italian city state after another had a monopoly on Western European trade with the East before the voyage of Vasco da Gama, and all of you know who Marco Polo was. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:24, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
That's because China and Japan are so far from Italy, and both China and Japan had adopted isolationist policies at that time. In an era before there were steamships and railways, I would not have expected the average Italian to know about them. I guess what is more surprising for me though is that they would know of Beijing, a specific city in China. The dog2 (talk) 23:37, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
You can see why I'm not surprised. Opera librettists weren't really average Italians (those would be peasants at that time, probably, or maybe industrial laborers, but I think that set in a bit later in Italy), and preexisting knowledge doesn't necessarily disappear because a country becomes isolationist. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:47, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Six-month protection of Hong KongEdit

Hi Ikan Kekek, I'd like to talk about the protection of the Hong Kong article. This article sometimes gets helpful edits from IPs and new users, so protection has a non-zero cost. You protected it in response to two edits from the Rocky vandal – but protection won't help very much against that vandal, because they edit a wide range of articles and will happily move on to another one. I suggest we reduce the protection period to less than six months, to avoid too much of a barrier to productive edits like these[2][3]. —Granger (talk · contribs) 07:15, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Go ahead. I don't really know how to go forward. That fucking vandal is ruining things for everybody. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:30, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I've been tinkering with abuse filters to try to address the problem. It might help if some admins spend some of our time patrolling the abuse log (especially disallowed edits), which could allow us to block this vandal's IP addresses before their edits go live. It might also be possible to configure abuse filters differently to be more effective...I'll poke around and see what I can find.
Beyond that, just keep reverting, I guess. Sometimes I think of it like swatting mosquitoes. As the site grows there will be more vandals, I expect, but fortunately we have a dedicated team of admins who I think prevent most of it from being seen by readers. Don't let the bastards get you down! —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to get useful information from the disallowed edits log. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
If you see a new edit that's been disallowed, you can click "details" to see what the user was trying to do. If it's clearly a long-term abuser (like this one, for instance), I think it's appropriate to block them. If it's a constructive edit that was accidentally caught by the abuse filter, you can ask someone (like me, or another admin who edits abuse filters) to change the abuse filter to reduce false positives. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:05, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

I was also going to suggest a range block, but I was happy to discover that User:DannyS712 implemented one yesterday. I think this will be somewhat effective in reducing the number of edits we get from this vandal. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:29, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Good, and thanks for explaining. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:47, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Block of "Bostonride"Edit

I am not sure an indefblock with blocking the use of their talk page is warranted. Yes we have had problems with boxing related vandalism, but the user is right in pointing out that "chess boxing" is indeed a real sport with spectators. I think we should give the user another chance, if only to give them enough rope to hang themselves as the saying goes... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:29, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree. This looks to me like it could be a good-faith user who didn't realize the edit they were restoring came from a long-term vandal. Better to give the benefit of the doubt, I'd say. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:23, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Actually, looking further at the contribution history, seems unlikely. Somehow I thought the revert was on the "Boston" talk page, but actually it was on an unrelated talk page, so that would have to be a big coincidence. Still, I'd probably leave talk page and email access, just in case. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:30, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Granger, do what you think best. I get your (plural) points. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:46, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
I posted to the user's user talk page and restored their access to their talk page, but I think they're clearly at least a problem user. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Ikan Kekek!Edit

I saw this on Wikipedia and just had to try it here! 19:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! You too, and stay safe and healthy! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

re:Federica MartinoEdit

Hi, as you can see in the Talk:Fasano, Wikimedia Italy is holding a project with the University of Bari. Federica is one of the students, Codas and I are the tutors of the project.--Ferdi2005 (talk) 17:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I see. Great, and thanks for explaining. Let me know if I can be of any help. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:16, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Of course! You can help us review the articles: Isole Tremiti and Fasano are the ones we have already written, but more are coming!--Ferdi2005 (talk) 17:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Wonderful. Sure, I'll look over the articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Wordpress and Indian ticketsEdit

While reverting touting of pnrupdate.com, you called it Wordpress. Is there some connection I should be aware of? whois only says Godaddy (i.e. the domain is registered without publicly announcing the real operators).

I am also confused by the PNR scheme. Our article says you should buy tickets at irctc.co.in and check booking status at pnr-status.info, in another section we link indianrail.gov.in for checking instead. In a third section we say "Checking PNR status through online is the most popular way to check your PNR status. Following are some renowned websites where you can check your PNR status." and link railwayenquiry.net and indianrail.gov.in (said to be the official one).

It seems this checking PNR is a big thing in India, with many firms trying to tout their site. I suppose I should ask on the talk page whether we should prune away all links but the official ones, and probably tidy up the section. Do you know something about the issue?

LPfi (talk) 13:26, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

The site says "Powered by Wordpress" on the lower right corner. Per what not to link to, we don't link to blog sites and such here. If you can check your PNR status effectively through the official site, no other site should be linked. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:20, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Ah! I didn't look close enough. I don't know whether the official sites work properly. I'll ask at the article talk page. –LPfi (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Cool. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:18, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
I'm giving this to you because of all your hard work in contributing to Wikivoyage. CatDog1234539 (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, but you're not trying to butter me up, right? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


Hello Ikan Kekek, I agree with your opinion that the image of the San Marco Basilica was not a nice one. But the replacement by your edit does not give a good travelers view of it, because only the main dome of the Basilica is shown. It would fit well in an article like w:St Mark's Basilica. The image I included with this remark shows info important for the traveler:

  • what it looks like
  • the area is crowded
  • an upstairs area of the Basilica can be visited

I think this type of view is more practical for this article. What do you think? --FredTC (talk) 12:20, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I have no objection to using that thumbnail. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Grand Pacific Drive a stub now?Edit

Hi, I have just expanded Grand Pacific Drive, would it be a stub now? TravelAroundOz (talk) 23:15, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

It sure would. This is an itinerary article. You have to create a "Drive" section for the actual route. Pan-American Highway is an Outline, Burma Road is Usable, Dalton Highway is a Guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
And Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side is a Star itinerary article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Also how do I centre the image? TravelAroundOz (talk) 23:38, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Which image? In general, you should keep images other than the pagebanner on the left right side by default (have a look at Wikivoyage:Image policy), but the way to do it is [[File:(Filename).jpg|thumb|center|(Caption)]]. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:49, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The page banner TravelAroundOz (talk) 23:54, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
It looks alright to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
In general, images should be on the right side, and banners should have the dimensions 7:1. I will fix the page banner. Ground Zero (talk) 03:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I mistyped. The default is on the right side, not the left side (it's on the other left, so to speak...). Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:47, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: Can you do that for Golden Highway as well? TravelAroundOz (talk) 10:22, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Thank you for getting me started on WikiVoyage TravelAroundOz (talk) 23:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Sure thing. Now about those stubs... :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:22, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Honestly, it's me on Day 2 here and I'm lovin it ;) TravelAroundOz (talk) 06:25, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Good. Keep it up. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:28, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks mate! TravelAroundOz (talk) 07:27, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Appreciate your effort.. Kamaini.wane (talk) 05:32, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
I appreciate yours. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:21, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Wow UniverseExplorer0 (talk) 06:45, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
very good work UniverseExplorer0 (talk) 06:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. You can just post regular messages, though. Let me know if you ever want help with anything.
Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
You're racking up these awards, popular man! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Hah! :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:23, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

very rusty (saya lupa semua, hampir...)Edit

The links that I made to english wikipedia in the ashmore and cartier article - is that kosher?

good to see you are still around after all this time... JarrahTree (talk) 05:01, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Good to see you as well! How are you? We should be linking War zone safety#Land mines and unexploded ordnance, instead, which also links from unexploded ordnance. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
very interesting some stuff - will send off wiki - as for most - good thanks, thanks for your edits... JarrahTree (talk) 05:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
also it is very very dubious that any part of the interior of australia is impossible to get there, I know of 4WD drivers whom such a definition is good reason for them to go there... JarrahTree (talk) 05:39, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Very well true. In bordertown, (yes it exists), there is basically nothing for 300kms north of it. TravelAroundOz (talk) 12:07, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
I can imagine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:46, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Thank you for getting me started on WikiVoyage Azmi1995 (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm currently still on sporadic editors before creating valuable & notable pages on here. Sadly, Brunei is quite neglected rather than their three Malay counterparts i.e. Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore. I'm updating this and making sure that it will be more informative on several pages

Sama-sama. Let me know if you ever need any help, although I couldn't help you with content for Brunei. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:49, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Edit on SderotEdit

I did in fact read through Welcome, Wikipedians for guidance before making my edit, but managed to miss the fact that it's a specific intention for Wikivoyage pages to be unreferenced—perhaps the double-negative phrasing that it's a non-goal to not document everything and not reference information could be made clearer? This is rare for a Wikimedia project, and is maybe not going to stand out on a first read-through in that amount of material; for example, on English Wiktionary references are very infrequent but not actually prohibited as it appears they are here.

I also specifically looked for article layout advice related to references, but for example there was nothing in Wikivoyage:Article skeleton templates.

As to your edit summary question about why it would be important to know that Sderot evidently has a reputation as a dangerous place to be at midnight, I'd have thought the importance of this for a traveler is evident. Framing it in the historical context seemed to me like the sort of thing a travel guide would do, but there are many different kinds of travel guides, and of course I defer to your judgment if it's not the sort of thing that belongs on a Wikivoyage page about an Israeli town next to the warning about rocket attacks. --Struthious Bandersnatch (talk) 01:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll have a look at Wikivoyage:Goals and non-goals' phrasing. I agree that Sderot being dangerous at midnight is relevant to travelers. It would be relevant to the "Stay safe" section. I suppose if that's been true continuously for over 100 years, it could be OK to reinsert that quote, and you can say "As So-And-So said in Such-And-Such Book..." Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:18, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Does Wikivoyage:Goals and non-goals look any clearer to you now that I've made these edis? Is there anything else that could be stated more clearly? Feel free to edit it, or let me know what seems potentially ambiguous. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:25, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

That does seem like better wording, but I think that if someone familiar with Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects goes to try to figure out whether to add a reference section to a page, they're unlikely to make it that far—I probably spent a good deal more time reading and looking for guidance first than on simply entering the citation information, which I was able to cut and paste. I wonder if the Mediawiki software could be configured to display a warning or something if ref code is used in mainspace, or simply to disable the referencing features?

I don't believe the professor was describing Sderot in historical terms when he used it as a figure of speech to illustrate the rough-and-ready character of the Hashomer militiamen—he was speaking English, to an American documentary crew, and wasn't using other early-twenthieth-century figures of speech. But it's up to you whether you think it should be included in the Wikivoyage page; he could have been joking or exaggerating or something like that too, which is why I tried to write out literally who said it and the context, but still “plunge forward”. --Struthious Bandersnatch (talk) 22:44, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

The relevance to today wasn't clear. You could spell it out in your own words. To your other point: I've previously suggested making certain operations we don't want impossible, but there have been no takers, and I don't know the first thing about how to program in Mediawiki, so I won't be able to do it. Wikis are ultimately only as good as the volunteer users make them. That said, I'll see whether I could propose this change again, and perhaps someone will want to tackle it now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
We could make the abuse filters warn about (not disallow, which I think would be overkill) use of the ref tag (and anything that looks like one): "<ref". Whether a suitable worded warning would discourage people from saving the rest of their edit or editing at all in the future, I don't know. –LPfi (talk) 08:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Licensing information for photos from CommonsEdit

Hi Ikan Kekek. I'd like to ask you to include the licensing information with uploading photos from Commons that are going to be deleted there due to lack of FOP. It seems we need to do this to ensure compliance with our own Exemption Doctrine Policy, which says "Photographs of copyrighted artwork and architecture must be otherwise free; contributors may not upload images taken from non-free sources just because they depict copyrighted works that are allowed under this policy." It's also helpful for potential reusers of the photos, who may live in countries like the US that do have freedom of panorama, even if the country where the photograph was taken doesn't. (And it's polite to credit the creator of a photograph.)

For comparison, see also w:Template:FoP-USonly. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Apparently we have a designated template for this, which I just found a moment ago: Template:Non-free image. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:38, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

When the photos have licenses on them, I select the relevant license. When they don't, the instructions on the upload page said that a default license would be supplied. Are you saying that's not true? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
When I came across File:Jalylkhayat2016.jpg a few hours ago, it looked like this, missing the license. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
So there's something wrong with the uploading instructions. That's really unfortunate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:30, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Did you go via the "upload file" link in the left margin and the "upload it locally to this wiki" link that resulted? Do you mean the instructions on the upload form (MediaWiki:Uploadtext)? Or did you use some other tool?
I suppose we should have some automatic function for transferring files from Commons – I think such a function exists, and perhaps just has to be activated (or just linked?).
Selecting a default licence is OK when you are licencing your own photos, but when it is about a work of somebody else, one has to use a a licence chosen by the author (or copyright owner).
LPfi (talk) 06:56, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I used the "upload file" link as you described. Many files on Commons don't have a specific type of user-chosen Creative Commons license, so they should be considered to have the default Commons license. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Many files? Could you give an example? I cannot remember having seen any, so I suppose there is something you say that I interpret wrongly. –LPfi (talk) 08:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Some of them have licenses not on the drop-down list, such as public domain. Here's an example. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:15, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Another. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure what else I thought was at issue, but I'll let you know if I see something. So far, what I found is not a lack of clarity, just a lack of equivalent licenses to input here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Ah! Yes, there are many licences and PD reasons not in the dropdown. But you cannot just exchange one licence for another, except in the rare cases where the specific licence explicitly allows that. For the PD cases, one could simply state "PD" instead of citing the specific reason, but losing information is seldom good – what do you do when somebody questions the PD status? I think the solution is either to import all the licence and PD templates from Commons (probably a mess), or to just link the Commons template from a local "other" template, one for licences and one for PD reasons. There might be a clean way to do it, but I am not trying to find one right now. –LPfi (talk) 09:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
What I've been doing is copying the remarks from the photographer that the photo is in the public domain but supplying some CC license that's lesser because I don't have the option to assign a public domain license, from what I've seen. I'm going to bow out of doing anything more complicated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:57, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
with all respect for other work you have done

referring your listing for "Croatia" yacht charter companies :

I was trying to add commercial listing since this page already is doing so - if we are not allowed nobody should be - please delete all charter company listing and links Maritim-alpha (talk) 11:23, 19 February 2021 (UTC)


Hi mate. I tried to ping you at Talk:Croatia#Yacht_charter_listings, but I messed up and it probably didn't work. Anyway, ping! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:26, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it didn't work. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:15, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Reply to the questionEdit

"Is it a good or bad thing that the prices and locations might be changed? In other words, do these apps have up-to-date information or not? The sentence doesn't make that clear. 04:31, 20 February 2021 (UTC) "

Emm, to say that. Prices, like the tickets' prices of these locations, and open times of the locations are unstable. So before the visitors go to a place, they'd better check some infos on local websites, that will save their time. In China, the apps are normally used to check for tickets information and all infos are up-to-date, do you need any materials to prove that? I'm a newbie to wikipedia and I'm not a native speaker, so if you would like to help me to improve the page, I'm very appreciated for you to do so. Thanks again for pointing out the mistake for me. PencilCore (talk) 04:49, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

OK, I understand. So the additional information that needs to be added is that these apps are often more up to date than other sources. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:27, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

IP edits at a user pageEdit

Often IP edits at user pages are vandalism, sometimes they are mistaken, but they also happen because the user in question just wasn't logged in (and did perhaps not realise it). So I would mostly leave them alone, unless they might be harmful. You might of course have had a reason for your remark in the specific case – or now that I look at it, the edit summary is off, but perhaps written before the other change, I've done such things. –LPfi (talk) 12:01, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

In no way do I think that IP user is the same user whose sandbox it is, just not logged-in, but if they are, they can say that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:14, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
You may well be right, I didn't check the user's edit pattern. I just know such things sometimes happen, and that it is good to keep that in mind when commenting. Never mind. –LPfi (talk) 14:13, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
That was the IP user's only edit on Wikivoyage, at least under that IP address. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:24, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
So would probably an edit from my IP seem to be, if I were logged out while editing. –LPfi (talk) 14:34, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
I understand. But would it be really bad if the IP user explained that? I usually automatically revert IP edits to other people's user pages. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:40, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
I suppose that is OK. The user can easily revert to their version (unless a newbie who doesn't know about page history). But IP addresses are sometimes sensitive (disclosing one's location, sometimes one's identity), so I wouldn't make a fuzz about it, and especially not if a user seems not to want to comment on such an edit. –LPfi (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Is a single user talk page post making a fuss? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:08, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Alt namesEdit

Still getting the hang of Wikivoyage, so not sure if I can expect you to be watchlisting the page and seeing edit histories, or if WV has a different culture in that respect to enwiki. I restored the alt name, because it's on the physical building (visible on Google Maps). If this is repeating an edit summary you already saw, all apologies. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for the explanation, and sorry for the inconvenience. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

RE: BarncompassEdit

Thank you for your kind words. The work on Wikivoyage is never-ending! Just have to keep at it. Gizza (roam) 01:47, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Gomes000 (the Estremadura dude)Edit

In the discussion at Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#Estremadura, I noted that this was a matter of cross-project disruption, and Gomes000 was edit-warring Estremadura articles on both Wikipedia and Wikivoyage. (I only know about the English versions -- possibly the Portuguese sister projects might have information of their own?) He's since been indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia per the conversation here, which includes some other possibly pertinent information (about e.g. his English fluency/communication skills). Is this something that should go to user ban nominations? Vaticidalprophet (talk) 23:58, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

You could propose a user ban, sure. I think we could handle him with gradually increasing blocks if need be, but go ahead and make the nomination if you want to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

New York CityEdit

In regard to your revert on the New York City article, the state has added an travel exception where domestic travelers fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in the last 90 days no longer have to quarantine. I added this information to the COVID box in the New York (state) article. I was going along the lines of "less is more" since the city follows the state guidance, unless there is a better way of phrasing it? JRHorse (talk) 14:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Or rather, less is best? JRHorse (talk) 14:03, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
My opinion is that so many readers are likely to bypass the article for New York State to read the New York City article that it's best to just copy all the relevant information from the New York State article. If you feel strongly about this, though, please start a thread in Talk:New York City, and we can try to come to a consensus about this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
I'll copy the relevant information as was done before. JRHorse (talk) 14:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Great, thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:32, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Population figuresEdit

The reader can infer that the number here refers to people, but it is not obvious. "Legazpi, is a city of almost 200,000 (2015)". To me there is something missing. Ground Zero (talk) 11:50, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Excuse me for butting in, but it is obvious, especially now I've moved "is" to the correct part of the sentence. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I think it's super-obvious. What else would it be, 200,000 pencils? 200,000 stores? 200,000 rats? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


Spambots use old revision IDs across projects - so continuing to leave the revision undeleted will allow them to continue to propagate their spam. So the options really become either revdel this revision or delete the page entirely. Jon Kolbert (talk) 17:51, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by using them and would welcome further explanation so I can understand going forward, but I also suggest you contact the admin who put up the don't tout template on that page. He's the one you should discuss this with, primarily, because I think the rest of us are unlikely to second-guess his choice. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:54, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
The link I just used above, it shows live spam, correct? The bots will use this link on other sites, effectively making Wikimedia projects a host for their junk. That's why it gets deleted - so we aren't hosting spam. I have no clue why admins are leaving template messages to robots. These aren't users, they're scripts. Please delete this page or at least revdel the spam revision. Jon Kolbert (talk) 18:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
If I had been the one who first read the spam, I would have deleted it and blocked the account indefinitely without a talk page message, but please contact User:Ibaman. This isn't a one-off issue, so share your remarks with him. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
@Ibaman: seems to have ignored your message about this thread? Jon Kolbert (talk) 17:12, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
  • I don't understand the matter of this discussion. Spam must be deleted, always. Ibaman (talk) 18:04, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Jon Kolbert is arguing that leaving a revision by a spambot merely blanked and not actually deleting the page aids in the propagation of spam, and also that it's pointless to post a message on a spambot's talk page, but we should merely delete the page and block the spambot account indefinitely. If you wanted to chart a middle path, you could delete the page (not blank it) and then recreate the page in order to post a message. I sometimes do that if I have the slightest doubt that the account is a spambot. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC)


FYI, Vasudha1819 (talk, contribs) is an LTA sockpuppet, see Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Nsmutte. Best, DanCherek (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not surprised. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:35, 16 March 2021 (UTC)


There was no copyright violation. You deleted the page with no real reason.--MSClaudiu (talk) 12:19, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Copyright violation from Wikipedia. Please read Wikivoyage:Copyleft. You are allowed to copy from Wikipedia, but it's rarely advisable to copy wholesale from there, in part because of the difference in goals and style between the sites, and in any case, you must credit your source in your edit summaries or the talk page of the article (summaries you type in the "Summary" box below your edit screen). It's better to summarize and use some paraphrasing as appropriate than to quote in full. Please restart the article with these things in mind, thank you, and let me know if you have any questions.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:02, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I now see that I gave you this information on August 10, 2020. You didn't need to make me search for the deletion and do a web search for the text again. Just please pay attention when you get specific information from knowledgeable users. Thanks, and next time, instead of pretending you're clueless, ask only real questions about things that weren't already explained to you months ago. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:05, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
See the full message at User talk:LivelyRatification SHB2000 (talk) 12:04, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Facegroup group in MalaysiaEdit

I think you were looking for a wiki-contact in Malaysia? I don't know if you are aware of this fb group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ms.wiki? I found the link on meta:Talk:Wikimedia Malaysia. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 23:37, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

I was looking for someone who could answer a specific question relating to the legalities of using a photo of the logo of a division of Sarawak. Thanks for tracking that down for me.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
normally I would never post about topic this on an open talk page - I think I heard about a very weird topic about large amount of commons items being removed by a very weird interpretation about what can be utilised without venturing into legal issues. If that sounds obtuse, I might look to see if there are other possible links within the scope of wikimedia projects... please delete this if you know better than I do - so as not to create issues or problems for anyone here. JarrahTree (talk) 12:34, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I really don't know better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:41, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

KevRobbAU's editing style for local streetsEdit

Hi Ikan Kekek, hope your doing well,

Re. KevRobbAU's edits on local streets (use Manilla (NSW) for examples sake), he seems to be putting route numbers like alternate street names. Route numbers are only used for major highways/motorways with the exception of Victoria.

Anyway, I'm trying to fix his format a little bit by changing (example only) Manilla Street/B95 to Manilla Street (B95). Anyway, to my main point, local street names aren't to have route numbers e.g.

  • Manilla Street (B95) is wrong even though it is technically right as this will just confuse people.
  • Fossickers Way (B95) is correct as the signs with route numbers don't use local street names.

So this leaves me with two questions,

1. How do I put it, the local street name or the major highway with KevRobbAU agreeing.

2. How am I going to tell him without being abused (as what he did to you?, I'm afraid that he may find a lame excuse especially he has more rights on en.wv than I do)

Thanks for your time and stay safe.

SHB2000 (talk) 10:22, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit as you see fit, but if you think you'll get pushback, try discussing things on a talk page such as the one for the Manilla article. If he behaves abusively, you can contact an admin, but I don't want to be the one to take action, or you could post to Wikivoyage:User ban nominations or its talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Will start but I'll be a lot slower due to a finger injury. :( SHB2000 (talk) 06:38, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Very sorry about that. I hope you heal well! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:09, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, thankfully it's the 4th finger so I wouldn't affect me much, regardless, I'm no longer going to revert vandalism on en.wiki for a while. SHB2000 (talk) 09:41, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek: Regardless, it's okay as KevRobbAU has now retired. SHB2000 (talk) 10:40, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Many users claim to retire and then come back. I'm totally fine with his contributing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:56, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

FWIW, I already thought it was ArticCynda before seeing that comment you briefly linked to from the User Ban page. That doesn't mean it is him, of course, but who else signs posts as "AC"? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, hard to imagine who else it would be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:32, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
No other person with that username. SHB2000 (talk) 20:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
It could be a troll who wishes to defame AC. IP checkers (?), who can see the request headers etc., could verify. –LPfi (talk) 06:10, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Doubtful. I don't know who could check an IP. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:02, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Stewards, I suppose, as we don't have any local checkusers (that's their name). –LPfi (talk) 08:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
They seem to be from the same ISP and the same region (as my requests used the same path until I hit a firewall). I suppose that is evidence enough, unless we have edits from others on the same IP blocks. Do we have other problem users from Britain? –LPfi (talk) 08:27, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
And ones who would have made those edits? No. Sorry for doubting at first sight. –LPfi (talk) 08:30, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
It's OK. The concept of someone "defaming" this guy when this is his standard modus operandi was quite tenuous, but I understand why you want to be careful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
@LPfi:, it's always a good idea to check their (UK IP's) edits. SHB2000 (talk) 01:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

User:AridCeption would. SHB2000 (talk) 05:55, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

New articles of AnglaisEP's studentsEdit

Hi there,

Is it okay if I reword most of those articles. They sometimes make no sense and remembering that the traveller comes first, I'm so tempted to fix it up. This includes plenty of grammatical errors as well as sentences that are hard to read. But I also don't want to ruin the student's projects but also want to make life easier for the traveller. What shall I do?

Additionally, User:Thomascruss keeps adding full stops in the wrong place like this .Which he continues after I've made ≈30 corrections and their edit summaries make no sense as well. User:AnglaisEP has also said that he isn't one of their students.

Thanks, SHB2000 (talk) 03:46, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

This is a Wiki. We should edit out mistakes. If User:AnglaisEP wants us not to help with copy editing and formatting, they need to say so and tell us how long to wait before editing the articles in question, but realistically, it's not possible to keep people from editing articles on a Wiki that are in articlespace. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:49, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, this takes my guilt away. But as always, the traveller comes first. SHB2000 (talk) 03:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Additionally, can you understand what this means, especially the ones in italics?

"There is also "La Céramique" which a old creation for publics, it's open from 10H to 12H and 14H to 18H and the people buy 3€ for visiting. "Les Ruches du Tigou" can see but also visiting for educated on story of bees. It's a very good activity to do in family!"

Yeah. There's a €3 admission charge and you can learn about bees. I don't know how that's connected with ceramics, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
When I first read it, it sounded like you buy money. SHB2000 (talk) 04:02, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
We have an Indonesian editor sometimes, whose English is much harder to understand than that, even for people who used to be fluent in Malay and know some Indonesian, like me. But just do what you can. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:06, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Of course, you can edit the articles. It is also what I wanted to show to my students. Teachers in France usually tell their students that they should not use wikis because information is not reliable. I wanted them to realize that yes, everyone can contribute but that everything is checked and that when used correctly Wikis can be great tools! So, it is great if people want to edit the articles. AnglaisEP (talk) 08:42, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, I agree, with AnglaisEP, especially Wikipedia. Most of the time, unsourced things and vandalism on en.wiki gets reverted by RCP (myself included). I still don't understand why the stereotype is still going on. And Ikan Kekek, interesting, I didn't realise you were from Malaysia, somewhere where I've been planning to go last July. SHB2000 (talk) 08:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Additionally, when I was studying French, my french teacher never used fr.wikipedia as they have the "wikis are bad" mindset. The only reason why I don't edit is because of what happened to User:KevRobbAU. SHB2000 (talk) 08:54, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm not from Malaysia. Have a look at my user page. By the way, I taught college courses for years, and what I told my students was that I support the Wikipedia project, which is really the Medieval notion of collective authorship, complete with marginalia (the talk pages), in a computer-age version. However, I insisted that my students identify clearly what content they quoted, paraphrased or summarized from which Wikipedia article and when they consulted it, and I warned them that if the information was wrong, they wouldn't get a break because they cited it, so if they didn't want to just roll the dice, they should at least look at the sources cited in the relevant Wikipedia articles so that they could get the original context - or better yet, they should cross check the information in an independent source that's not a mere mirror site. I recommended that for every secondary source - cross check your source. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:11, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Idiot me skipped the first few words. Similar when I read User:DaGizza's userpage. SHB2000 (talk) 10:05, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Can you please block User:

See [4] and [5] SHB2000 (talk) 04:05, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Already done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Keep in mind that we practice a policy of denying recognition to vandals. Please don't post warnings to the user talk pages of their latest sockpuppets. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:09, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Ah yes, I'm too used to using RedWarn now on en.wiki. SHB2000 (talk) 04:57, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Personal attack.Edit

Hey Ikan Kekek, got sent this by email SHB2000 (talk) 04:12, 27 March 2021 (UTC)


Not a Wikivoyage user, so I don't know what I could do about it. You might want to change your email settings. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:17, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
It's by User:Fordaona which is a wikivoyage user (according to email). Just asking if you can block the user with emails banned. SHB2000 (talk) 04:18, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
A user with no contributions and no deleted contributions. To my surprise, I was able to block them, anyway, though. I'm sorry you've gotten caught up in this unpleasantness. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:20, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I feel extra sorry for you with the two IP's today. My only experiences were this and User:ThePikerWorm SHB2000 (talk) 04:22, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Some people are just angry and get their jollies lashing out at people. At least as long as it's strictly online, at least no-one is physically hurt, but it goes with the territory. If you're old enough to remember Usenet, a lot of the newsgroups were cesspools of spam and flaming. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:30, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
This is apparently User:Fordaona according to this link that was in the email. SHB2000 (talk) 04:32, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Additionally, a vandalism only account has returned. See here SHB2000 (talk) 04:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Antandrus is not a vandal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:39, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Additionally, on wikipediasucks.co, here's what I found:

[quote removed]

Link [Link removed]
These guys are clearly up to no good. SHB2000 (talk) 04:45, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I greatly appreciate your help, but it's really best not to copy this kind of stuff here. Again: Deny recognition. And do keep in mind, I have no interest in going looking for vandals around the web, only on improving this guide. And I think I'll take my nightly walk now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:09, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Anyway, stay safe. SHB2000 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. Yes, it's good to keep in mind that there are real-world dangers, but it's safer for me to walk a couple of miles or more than to stay home. Take care and thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:15, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Anyway, I'll be gone for my coffee break. SHB2000 (talk) 05:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Let me know when I can delete the screenshot of the attack on you. I'd rather not enshrine that in the memory of this site, since what could be done about it has been done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Anytime, it's why I put the speedy deletion tag. SHB2000 (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
For immediately taking action on these vandalism/harassment only accounts quickly. SHB2000 (talk) 04:53, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Joke articles/AtlantisEdit

I reverted your edit to Wikivoyage:Joke articles/Atlantis, because the listing "Hôtel du Grand Tout" does not seem appropriate. -- AnotherEditor144 (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

What does the message at the top of joke articles say? I'm not going to waste time on this, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:26, 27 March 2021 (UTC)


Hi Ikan Kekek: No I was not suggesting that wikivoyage should be encouraging people with neo-Nazi attitudes. And no, I do not think it would be a good way to make Wikivoyage, or any other website, a friendly site for the majority of the world's population. Not sure what made you think that? Ottawahitech (talk) 02:31, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Because the guy we're talking about has such attitudes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:53, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Need HelpEdit

Hi @Ikan Kekek:, I realized there some misinformations and under information about Nigeria, before I do intend to bridging the gap and recruiting more users, I will need you to direct me to a page where the fundamentals or basics about Wikivoyage are explained. You can also refer me to a video on commons or Youtube. Thanks,

Haylad (talk) 20:50, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing. You can start by looking at Welcome, newcomers, Welcome, Wikipedians if you're familiar with Wikipedia, and Wikivoyage:Manual of style. Please let me know if you have any questions about anything, and thanks again for being here! Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:55, 29 March 2021 (UTC)


Hi, MediaWiki has a new logo (see here). Can you please update Template:WikivoyageSister to use File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg instead of File:MediaWiki-logo.svg. Thanks --Nintendofan885 (talk) 10:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

April fool? Regardless, no, I wouldn't know how to update it. You might post to the Travellers' pub, but I'd be suspicious of anything today. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Ok. The phabricator task is T268230 --Nintendofan885 (talk) 08:51, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Contentious redirects?Edit

What's the preference for dealing with redirects for disputed places that take a side in the debate? Soumya just made three redirects to Taiwan (Taiwan, China, Taiwan Province, and Taiwan Province, China) that look more-heat-than-light to me -- they don't seem that useful for navigation (I can't picture a situation where you'd rather have those in articles than just Taiwan, and if you're using the search box you'll be directed to Taiwan first) and only serve to claim a position as to Taiwan's geopolitical status. Are these better VfDed, speedied, left alone? Am I missing something? Vaticidalprophet (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I've summarily deleted some obviously useless redirects. I think these should be nominated for deletion. I agree that he creates some unnecessary redirects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:37, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

PP TibooburraEdit

Hi there, can you please protect Tibooburra. It seems to be a target for the Telstra guy (Brendan John Williams) as I see it has been deleted before. Thanks and have a good easter. SHB2000 (talk) 07:45, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

You too, but please don't worry about anyone deleting the article this time. We know you don't create valueless articles with plagiarized text. I'll look forward to seeing how you develop the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm going there this summer so it'll be a bit more well written then some of my other articles. SHB2000 (talk) 07:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Great! In the meantime, though, there's already some information. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
With the help of unreliable google maps (at least what happened to me in Arizona). :) SHB2000 (talk) 06:40, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, one does have to be careful. Google sometimes plots a route for you to drive off a cliff. Hasn't happened to me, but such has been reported. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:59, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
This one in Arizona took me to a place 4 hours away from the actual location. Used waze the next day. Funnily enough, someone sent this to me. I really don't know how this happens. SHB2000 (talk) 07:06, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
What's wrong with the route at the link? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:36, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
The unnecessary spur section. SHB2000 (talk) 08:08, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

May I remove a place thats heavily vandalisedEdit


Just_asking_whether_I_may_remove_Henry_Head_Lighthouse_in_La_Perouse.Google_reviews_are_out_of_date_as_well_as_I_went_there_today. Wouldn't_recommend_it_as_well_as_it_is_poorly_maintained_as_it_sort_of_sparks_some_controversy.But_if_i_remove_it,it'll_break_the_be_fair_policy. So,should_I_remove_it_which_is_better_for_the_traveller_or_do_I_be_fair?

Also_ sorry_ for_ the_ poor_ formatting, my_ space_bar_ is_ jammed. Anyway_I'll_be_gone_out_til_Friday_so_you_or_User:DaGizza_may_as_well_change_it_considering you_ both_ have_ better_ 'bout_ WVpolicies_ than_ I do.

Thanks, SHB2000 (talk) 10:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

It's up to you. If you feel like the vandalism is so bad that no-one would want to go there, remove it. Otherwise, you could simply mention it in the listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:22, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
I mean, some can't stand graffiti like me but others usually don't mind. SHB2000 (talk) 20:04, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
So maybe just mention that there's a lot of ugly graffiti there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:22, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: - Here's an image that I found. SHB2000 (talk) 11:55, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000: I would recommend merging La Perouse with Sydney/Eastern Suburbs and then redirecting it. It is rare for individual suburbs to get their own page when there aren't enough listings to sustain it. Only the very famous suburbs like Bondi are standalone. Only when the Eastern Suburbs article is very large should we consider splitting it off but it's not at that stage yet. Gizza (roam) 00:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Well La Perouse is where both explorers Captain Cook and Laperouse so called "Claimed" that they discovered Australia. SHB2000 (talk) 11:57, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Is that an argument against merging? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes SHB2000 (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Why couldn't that be covered in a merged article? I don't know much of anything about the Sydney area, but in principle, I think the key points are really how many listings there are in each article and whether the number in a merged article would be excessive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:16, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Because I want to also include bits of it on the other side of Botany Bay, which isn't on the eastern suburbs. SHB2000 (talk) 22:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
I see. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:50, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
A potential solution to this would be to create a sub-article of Voyages of James Cook, specifically on Cook's exploration of Australia or even just Sydney/Botany Bay. For our destinations, we can only divide the world (whether it's region, city or districts) in one way at a time. But travel topics are more flexible and don't follow the breadcrumb path. Gizza (roam) 23:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


Hey. I've tracked the probable origin of these edits down to a marketing company based in Varna. Since they seem to be ignoring or missing all talk page comms, I've emailed them a kind of explainer / warning. Although we certainly could blacklist Hilton, it would be quite a lot of work to remove all of their listings on WV, so it would be far preferable to avoid that if possible.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:48, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Impressive work! Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:37, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Changes regarding KolkataEdit

   Hello Ikan, thanks for the message. I have been editing Wikipedia for some time now. I was very much shocked at the wrong information given in Wikivoyage regarding Kolkata city. I am doing all the corrections based on the information given in Wikipedia and as far as my knowledge. I am a native of Kolkata and thus know the place quite well. I mailed Wikimedia Foundation regarding the required correction in Wikivoyage Kolkata article, and one of the volunteers Mr Gurwinder Singh was kind enough to inform me that I can edit Wikivoyage giving proper references.

All I am doing is editing Wikivoyage Kolkata article based on Wikipedia data and my local knowledge as a native. I would request you not to revert my changes as I am sure it will be trusted by one and all who know Kolkata.

Still I will inform about my changes in Kolkata talk page of Wikivoyage according to your suggestion.


Anirban Kolkata Anirban Kolkata (talk) 19:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I won't rush to revert anything, but it is the normal practice to revert unilateral redistricting and wait for the results of a discussion, so don't be surprised if someone else reverts for now. Also, please reply to my questions on the thread you started on Talk:Kolkata. I'm glad you're here; just work with us, and thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Last Edit DateEdit

Why did the 'Last Edit Date' section inside templates change? It used to say "subst:#time:Y-m-d", but now it just has the date. Why do I have to change it every time now? 14:27, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

This is news to me. I hadn't heard anything about a change to the template. You might want to bring this up in the Travellers' pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
I did. 16:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek, See User_talk:SHB2000#Tech_News:_2021-14 for the update. SHB2000 (talk) 22:57, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
I see. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:22, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

What does "the valley of the r8vervVère." mean?Edit

Hi there, sorry to bother you again, but what does "the valley of the r8vervVère." mean in Castelnau-de-Montmiral, when I do a google search, it fails to show good results. User:AnglaisEP has ditched their account so I'm going to have to ask you. SHB2000 (talk) 06:00, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

River w:Vère. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:32, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Very great english by whoever added that:) SHB2000 (talk) 06:57, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Simple typos, no? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:34, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
That was me being sloppy. In my defence, I added a lot of good material to the article. Thanks for fixing my mistake. Ground Zero (talk) 16:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I thought that was one of User:AnglaisEP's students. That was also me being sloppy for not checking the page history. SHB2000 (talk) 23:22, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Out of curiosity...Edit

Out of curiosity, on the deletion log, it said I deleted Oxley Highway to make room for a redirect. Does this happen when I just move a page or is it because I'm a template editor (It didn't work when I did it for Vaucluse as that was before I became a template editor). I thought only admins could delete pages. Do you know how this works.

Thanks, SHB2000 (talk) 06:10, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Those who are allowed to move pages are also allowed to delete redirects to allow the move (as part of it), given that the redirect points to the article moved there and has no history except its creation. No special privileges needed. –LPfi (talk) 10:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
I needed to do the same for Vaucluse but I couldn't do it. Similar thing but I couldn't. Surprisingly I did it for Oxley Highway. Don't know why. SHB2000 (talk) 10:29, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
I don't think what user:LPfi wrote is correct; you need sysop privileges to delete a page, including redirects.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
No, if you move something over a redirect, the deletion occurs automagically. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:55, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Explains how I deleted Oxley Highway? But it didn't let me delete Vaucluse, which had the same content, edits and like a normal redirect. SHB2000 (talk) 10:57, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: Oh, okay. I've clearly been an admin too long to remember what it was like before... what have I become?---ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:15, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Not too sure about this but I think I have the second highest amount of edits as an active non-admin. (After KevRobbAU/KevRobbSCO – but KevRobbSCO is a new account (after litter bin dispute) so does it count? ) (There'll be some very old editors who have given their adminship away by now and have more or just left) SHB2000 (talk) 11:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Vaucluse had history:

  • 12:44, 9 April 2021: SHB2000 moved page Vaucluse to Vaucluse (disambiguation)) Tag: New redirect
  • 12:44, 9 April 2021: SHB2000 (talk | contribs | block) 31 bytes (Changed redirect target from Vaucluse (disambiguation) to Vaucluse (France)) Tag: Redirect target changed

Then TT moved Vaucluse (France) to Vaucluse, which was a privileged operation.

Otherwise: SomeVandal moves Vauclause to Nowhere, changes the redirect target of Vauclause to SomeOtherCity, and moves SomeOtherCity to Vauclause. Somebody moves back SomeOtherCity. Vauclause now redirects to SomeOtherCity and the original Vauclause is lost as Nowhere until somebody searches in the logs.

LPfi (talk) 12:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Makes so much sense now. This text ((talk | contribs | block)) also gives me a little look at what an admins (talk, cont. etc.) would look like. SHB2000 (talk) 12:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
:-) LPfi (talk) 14:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
:) SHB2000 (talk)
@LPfi:, is there a way to tell if I've got the highest amount of edits as an active non-admin? (After KevRobbAU who's now KevRobbSCO) SHB2000 (talk) 01:31, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
I haven't been using the MediaWiki API, but I remember seeing statistics about users with the most edits on a wikipedia. I suppose you need to check activity and adminship yourself, but they were perhaps included in a separate column of the table. No idea where it was. Meta? Toolforge? Wikimedia labs? Perhaps a web search on wikipedia (contribution) statistics or somesuch would turn it up. –LPfi (talk) 09:15, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Listing in Spanish WikivoyageEdit

This is only an information to you and not an instruction to act. Now DerFussi and me established the Marker and Listing templates at the Spanish Wikivoyage as they are used at the German Wikivoyage. While the implementation I added some features which are needed at the Spanish Wikivoyage. The community was helpful translating all the messages and labels. I prepared also some installation instructions considering our experiences at its installation process.

I will give some comments:

  • The templates have maximum Wikidata support. This made it difficult to implement it because of the huge computing time for the retrieval of Wikidata data. I found ways to call only one Q dataset per template in most cases (not ten to thirty). So it takes about the same time as before. We tested it with Vienna and Halle (Saale). In the article of Vienna 268 Listing and 55 Marker templates are used. 216 of them get data from Wikidata. But the main cause for the computing time is the <maplink> call which takes about 40 %. I will talk with the Mediawiki programmers to find ways to reduce it.
  • The wikipedia template parameter is no longer used. Please remove it or substitute it by wikidata. But there is some support for backward compatibility.
  • The type template parameter differs from the original one. The former ones like see, do, etc. are no real types. They summarize institutions of the same article section but they cannot distinguish between different types within a section. We deprecated them because they are senseless for an automatized transfer to Wikidata. The new vCard/listing uses now two terms: type is now a more specified type like restaurant, cafe, church, dam, etc. but it can have values like see, do, etc. for convenience reasons, too. All types belong to a group which have the meaning of the old types like see, do, etc. You can use the group parameter to override the group affiliation which is automatically estimated. The seldomly used group parameter of the old listing templates has to be renamed to map-group.
  • You need some time to translate the strings for internationalization. Maybe it takes about one week. I will make some translations into English within the next weeks to give better support to non-German communities.
  • You will be surprised how many errors were made in the past. From our experience, about ten percent of all articles are erroneous. Most errors occur with names, urls, phone numbers, email addresses or wrongly written parameter names. The correction have to be mainly done manually and will take maybe several weeks.

Thanks for your interest. --RolandUnger (talk) 06:16, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm not so technically knowledgeable but would surely be happy to help with some tasks that will be needed when the changes to the templates are made. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Bus routesEdit

Hi, with the Greyhound suspension still ongoing, and serious doubts as to whether they'll return, I'm thinking of going on a cleanup mission and removing Greyhound references. Articles will also be updated if/when the service returns. To save you the headache, I've registered User:162 etc. if you'd like to assign privileges. Thanks! 21:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

OK, sure, and by all means, go ahead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:37, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Definitely DarrenIconic388 is the telstra guy?Edit

Just alerting you to this. SHB2000 (talk) 03:28, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

No reason to alert me. His M.O. is to use a sock for one, maybe two edits and then register another sock. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

But does BJW, tend to have many usernames staring with Darren? SHB2000 (talk) 04:06, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Dunno. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

A barncompass for you!Edit

  The Sysop's Barncompass
For being the most active sysop here on Wikivoyage that I know of and as well as giving me a little more knowledge about the US. Certainly wished we had the interstate system in Australia, or at least pave all national highways. Take care and enjoy your week, --SHB2000 (talk) 07:20, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
You too! There's a big downside of superhighways, though: They helped nearly kill long-distance passenger rail, which is much less polluting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:24, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I like the incentive in the US to reduce carbon emissions by having an express lanes on freeways for hybrid or electric vehicles. Though I don't think I'll ever get an electric vehicle unless I move to Victoria. But I don't understand why the SA govt chooses not to pave these national highways, even though it's a major freight route. SHB2000 (talk) 07:34, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Do you know that Eisenhower had the interstates built to be able to move nuclear weapons around more quickly? It was a huge expenditure for national security reasons. The promotion of civilian vehicular traffic was a side effect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Especially on I-40 right? But did you know two bus crashes 600km apart had led to a 700km motorway? And back to the interstate system, As Charles Kuralt said "Thanks to the Interstate Highway System, it is now possible to travel across the country from coast to coast without seeing anything." which is very true. I want more freeways but so far, our longest freeway/motorway is only 300km long :(SHB2000 (talk) 07:44, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
I didn't know about those things. It looks like you know more about the interstate system than I do. By the way, like many New Yorkers, I don't drive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
I still haven't got my license yet. I usually go with mates or family. Shocked to see that a lot of New Yorkers don't drive though. SHB2000 (talk) 07:57, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Don't be. Especially in Manhattan, you can get nearly everywhere through some combination of subway, bus and walking. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
And in Midtown, the traffic is so bad that walking is often as fast or faster than motorized surface transportation (car or bus). Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:03, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Did Subway get it's name from being next to NY subway stations? SHB2000 (talk) 08:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
No, it's because they make submarine sandwiches (badly). When I get a spare few days (in hindsight I probably should have done it when I was furloughed) I want to make a "Subway" map of New York, with lines connecting all the sandwich shops. There'd probably be so many, you could make a viable train network out of it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek:, then how do most New Yorkers get out of NYC? SHB2000 (talk) 12:22, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Like you'd probably expect: airplanes, trains, buses. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Definitely unusual for an Australian. Not to say, I prefer to fly in the US rather than drive SHB2000 (talk) 06:26, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Spambot accountEdit

Biordbuy.za is a spambot for https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/ SHB2000 (talk) 07:06, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

You didn't link any account, but I'll probably see it in recent changes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:11, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
It's User:Bidorbuy.za SHB2000 (talk) 07:12, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
We normally don't preemptively block accounts unless they have offensive names or include words or expressions that make it obvious that they will vandalize. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
I see. SHB2000 (talk) 09:47, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Flower HillEdit

Apologies for my slow response. I completely agree with what you said about the subdivision map – it's way too encyclopedic. I tried removing it but got a warning notification each time (something along the lines of how removing something that big can be considered vandalism). Should I still remove it and ignore the warning?

As far as the rest of the section goes, I feel that the rest should remain (as in the list and the new paragraph (see next sentence)). I added in a bit on why the subdivisions might be fascinating for a visitor (as many were built at different times, many have different feels and styles, and one might be shocked at how different two subdivisions look (including scenery)). I feel that it can be of interest for a visitor, in that sense. LINYperson615 (talk) 21:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The problem with the list of subdivisions is that it's a long list, doesn't tell the visitor where each one is, and in most cases gives them no information about what each subdivision is like and why they'd want to go there. On your question about the subdivisions map, yes, please ignore a warning and remove it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Touting guidelinesEdit

Natbill (talk) 19:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)New user (Natbill); somewhat confused about your comments on the Chorefto / Zagora Greece page regarding touting. I sought to provide accurate, descriptive and informative information about an area of Greece that I know rather well. I am a native Chicagoan, recently of London and am definitely not engaged by any owner of the properties described. Please let me know what I have done to offend the Wiki gods. I have much more to add, but being spanked like that on my first effort is definitely not encouraging.

Hello and welcome, Natbill! Please read the guidelines at Wikivoyage:Don't tout and then ask me any specific questions you have. It may be that you copied some promotional language you read, but let's deal with specifics after you've read that page. Thanks a lot. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:48, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. Having read the guidelines, I believe that my reviews for the restaurants and bars in Pouri, Chorefto and Zagora were, while positive, honest and unbiased. Having visited that area many times of the past thirty years, I would consider my assessments well-informed.
I'm not sure how you got that from the guidelines, and I'd also encourage you to read Wikivoyage:Words to avoid. Let's deal with some specifics:
"Plimari is the Greek seaside restaurant ideal."
Saying that a restaurant is "ideal", still more "the ideal", suggests that it is absolutely perfect and no other restaurant (or in this case, no other Greek seaside restaurant) could possibly be better. You may think so, but you probably haven't been to every restaurant in that category, so give the restaurant due praise but dial it down a bit, or describe rather than using this superlative.
"It sits in splendid isolation in front of the sea-worn rocks of Analipsi beach"
Unnecessarily purple prose. Just say it's isolated, or maybe "secluded" is the tone you're looking for.
"Well cooked seafood and complex stews are the specialties of this Pilion treasure."
It's not enough to describe the cuisine and say it's a nice place, it has to be a treasure?
User:Ground Zero and I combined to produce this detouted version of listings you added and one other listing. Let us know if you have any further questions. You may think this stuff is unimportant, but a lot of business owners and publicists have used exactly this kind of language, and the volunteer editors of this site long ago decided that we don't want to use that tone as part of our house style or encourage people to quote such language, which tends to make listings sound like hype instead of reliable opinions of other travelers. Thanks a lot. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:44, 20 April 2021 (UTC)


Just so you know, I do not watch RT, and did not get that from the Russian media. That claim was mentioned in this segment by an American progressive YouTuber, so make of it what you will. Nobody is saying that the Russians are not imperialists, or that they are right and America is wrong, but let's put it this way. Nobody comes out of a geopolitical contest a saint. In the world of geopolitics, everyone plays dirty, and benevolent great powers have never existed in the history of the world. The dog2 (talk) 20:55, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Some so-called progressives are pro-Putin. But it's the Russian line. The Ukrainian government is not Nazi although some Ukrainian nationalists are, and Putin supports Nazis and fascists all over the place. But this is all irrelevant to Wikivoyage and you know it. Drop it, eh? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:11, 20 April 2021 (UTC)


Is there any point of there being a filter stopping people from typing AC's name? They only ever refer to themselves as AC, and whenever I type their name, it just triggers the filter (I triggered it at least seven times by accident). If AC themself never triggers this filter, then what's the point of having it? 17:43, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

  • you seem too preoccupied about this user, perchance could you be related to him in any way? or even be him in another disguise? Just wondering. Ibaman (talk) 17:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
@Ibaman: No, I am not this user. The only reason I edited his talk page was because lots of other people were, and I kept seeing it on lots of people's contribution pages. The reason I asked this question was because I kept accidentally triggering the filter. 18:03, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
It seems the filter isn't stopping anybody else – there is little reason for new users to type that name. It might be a nuisance for you, but even you has been caught by it just at a few occasions over the last few weeks. Do you think it is a big problem? –LPfi (talk) 19:18, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: Not really. 04:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

So stop fooling around with this. You've engendered suspicion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:27, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Okay. 05:53, 23 April 2021 (UTC)


  • Sorry, I'm just so used to editing in Simple English (simple.wikipedia.org) , cause I am from the Simple English Wikipedia! Thanks for catching that --つがる (talk) 02:22, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Sure thing! Thank you for making the edits! Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Opinion requested in Talk:Jervis BayEdit

Hi there, your opinion is requested in Talk:Jervis Bay. I've proposed a major change and if done, this is fairly significant and will disrupt a number of articles. Thanks and take care, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:52, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

PP my archive and slang archive page for a week?Edit

Hi there, could you protect these two pages for me for a week? It's been a heavy target for GRP and I'm exhausted reverting his edits cross-wiki. Don't PP my talk page though as GF IP users have good reason to post on my talk page (e.g. User: SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

  Done.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:39, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
:) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:53, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: - can you make it template editor. We've had a few cases of GRP having auto confirmed accounts. And I'm a template editor myself. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:31, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: Sorry for bugging you but can you also protect my userpage to template editor and admins only as well? It's also a target for GRP SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:25, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Notice of missing articles for states in NigeriaEdit

Ikan Kekek, I recently noticed that the standard article category for Nigeria is Region>>>Cities, it should be Region>>state>>Cities, for example, Ibadan is under the southwestern Nigeria region, I feel there's an omission for states in Nigeria. I am saying Ibadan should be under Oyo-state, not directly under Southwestern Nigeria. I noticed the California article exist, and California is a state in the US. Also, the article about Lagos should be a stand-alone article called Lagos State (very debatable). States in each Nigerian region should have articles of their own.Haylad (talk) 09:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Please start a thread about this at Talk:Nigeria, but keep in mind that for there to be articles about every Nigerian state, there needs to be enough content. On the face of it, it seems sensible to have an article for each state, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:01, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Each of the Nigeria region articles has only a few articles linked to it. What would benefit travellers would be to create articles for cities and towns they might visit. When a region gets enough articles about cities and towns, then it would make sense to create state articles. As a travel guide, the political boundaries really do not matter to us as much as what is best for travellers. I think creating state articles would be putting the cart before the horse. Ground Zero (talk) 19:42, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind that I added a crucial "not" to your post. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
On the french wikivoyage, we have Australian towns, states but not LGAs or regions. Since I'm only beginning to do some stuff there, there's not a current need for it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:20, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry, LG-whats? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Local Government Areas. Similar to US counties. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:50, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Ikan Kekek, I have moved the conversation to Talk:Nigeria, I believe there is enough content about Nigerian states @ Ground Zero, we just need more persons to create them, travellers will be moving from one state to another, I feel they should be aware of the states they are in. Haylad (talk) 10:11, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


As far as I know, there's no other editor from Nigeria. Perhaps try reaching out to Wikiproject:Nigeria on enwiki. I did the same on enwiki but to Wikiproject:Tasmania. Had to wait a while, but then JTdale came along here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:15, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

There's a bunch of Nigerians setting up an expedition (I assume that's still going ahead) - see top of the pub.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:30, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah yes, forgot about that. Didn't really interest me so I just ignored it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:33, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
We don't have an article on every county in the U.S., only in certain states. If there will be enough content (say, at least 5 non-stubby city articles) for each Nigerian state, go ahead and create articles for each state, but I kind of agree that it would make more sense to create the bottom-level articles (cities, parks, etc.) and then create the state articles when they are needed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
LGA's are a lot bigger than counties. And we only do it for the major ones like Sapphire Coast SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 02:01, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Size is not the only consideration, of course. How many of them have significant population? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:11, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
40k is nothing compared to the US but is big in Australian terms. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 02:14, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
But might not necessitate a region article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:15, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

About the external linksEdit

The issue here is the guy who added the external link that I reverted is someone with a history of flooding Special:RecentChanges with links, and at enough speed it's difficult to tell when their additions are good or not. I haven't removed the ones that are clearly correcting broken links or the like, but I'm not sure if this is behaviour that should be encouraged, because it makes it really difficult for recent changes patrollers to get a handle on what's going on and can cover up spam/vandalism by flooding it. The user in question had made an account and promised to taken more care with links, but he's not using the account, and he's doing so at the same high RC-flooding speeds. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 23:47, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Which of the links they're adding are not for legitimate official or quasi-official tourism agencies? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion requestsEdit

Please handle it when you can: Category:Speedy_deletion_candidates, some of them have been lying around for quite a while. Leaderboard (talk) 07:02, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Done except for one I'm not sure we should delete. Leaderboard, do you have the power to delete articles on this site? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
I check Speedy deletion requests at least once a week, and usually every couple of days, so they can't have been "lying around" for that long. Pity the page doesn't show up on my watchlist.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:30, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Khambat is just one of the unnecessary redirects made by Soumya-8974. It redirected to Khambhat but there's no other name that similar to it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:31, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
No, I don't have the ability to delete pages on this site (as I am neither an admin here nor a global sysop/steward). @ThunderingTyphoons!:, some of them were like two months old. Leaderboard (talk) 07:39, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but they can't have been. I checked it last week.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:44, 13 May 2021 (UTC)