Merging FawleyEdit

@Ground Zero: Hi, can we merge Fawley into Hythe (Hampshire) as we have come to a pretty clear conclusion on the Fawley talk page. 13:51, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


Spuds is not still operating, I just graduated from Kutztown University and can attest that they closed in the Summer of 2019. --2600:387:3:803:0:0:0:AF 15:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) --2600:387:3:803:0:0:0:AF 15:52, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikivoyage, the travel guide you can edit. If you see something that should be corrected or improved, please plunge forward and make the changes! I'll fix this one, but don't hesitate to make an edit the next time you see something that could be better Ground Zero (talk) 17:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I did edit it, I was just telling you because you removed it the last time I fixed it. And you removed what I put in for TommyBoys in doing so. I was under a different IP address then but it can be seen in the history. --2600:387:3:803:0:0:0:80 17:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

So you did. I think I put it back in because their website was (and is) still up. But I checked TripAdvisor, and there hasn't been a review since 2019. Sorry about that. Sometimes we have business owners who add their information while deleting a competitor's. I thought that's what was going on. It helps to provide an explanation for changes in the "Summary" line of the edit screen. Thank you for your contribution. Ground Zero (talk) 17:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Thanks for inspiring me to expand more of my stubs. Tourist Drive 33 will be up and ready in 4-6 days time TravelAroundOz (talk) 04:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

wikidata idEdit

Hi Ground Zero

I was looking at Oceania itineraries and wanted to make Tourist Drive 33 & Grand Pacific Drive on the map. How do I do this? TravelAroundOz (talk) 06:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Never mind, I found out how to do it using Jervis Bay as a template. TravelAroundOz (talk) 07:07, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

An award for you!Edit

  The Aussie Wikivoyage Barncompass
This Barncompass is to show appreciation for your great work on maintaining Tourist Drive 33. --TravelAroundOz (talk) 07:45, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Ground Zero!Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
This Barncompass is to show appreciation for your great work on improving Portugal destinations on Wikivoyage. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 17:36, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

@Nricardo: thank you very much. I am using Google Translate for any text I take from Portuguese Wikivoyage and Wikipedia. I hope that you will make any corrections that are necessary. Ground Zero (talk) 17:55, 20 February 2021 (UTC)


Hi Ground Zero,

Thank you for adding the banners to the various pages! I was wondering if you do a few additional things when creating a banner?

  • Please try to use the file naming convention of "[Article Name] banner.jpg" (i.e. "Canora banner.jpg"), or something comparable. Some banners have used the default of "[File] (cropped).jpg" which can be non-descriptive. When I updated Saskatchewan's regions, I requested file renames for the applicable banners.
  • In Wikimedia Commons, please add the files to appropriate Wikivoyage banner category, usually sorted by province/state (i.e. [[Category:Wikivoyage banners of Saskatchewan]]). I usually also remove most other Commons categories with exception of the city.
  • If possible, please link the banner to the city's Wikidata page under "Page Banner"; it allows {{pagebanner}} to be used on the Wikivoyage article without having to enter the file name.

This greatly help will organize the files. Thanks for your help! -- MuzikMachine (talk) 17:42, 23 February 2021 (UTC) @MuzikMachine:

  1. I have started doing that, but I will try to be more consistent in renaming.
  2. I wasn't aware that there were Wikivoyage banner categories in Wikidata, so I will look into that. I'm still new to Wikidata.
  3. This is more problematic. user:Ikan Kekek has started a discussion about this at Wikidata. The problem with linking to Wikidata is that Wikidata applies the banner to all Wikivoyage language versions, of which there are 24. If users in English Wikivoyage want to change their banner, changing it in Wikidata changes it for all other Wikivoyages without any discussion or consultation. I think we need to think more on this before plunging ahead. Ground Zero (talk) 20:12, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
In my experience a local banner overrides the one on Wikidata. As far as I can tell, the issue in the case of San Gimignano was that the pagebanner template was formatted incorrectly[1].
I'd say it is desirable for banners to be added to the Wikidata entries, because this provides a banner automatically for Wikivoyages that haven't gotten around to choosing one. If a local community dislikes the Wikidata banner, they can override it. That said, if possible, it's more efficient for a bot to add the banners to Wikidata instead of us humans having to remember to do it. At one point there was a bot that did it, but I don't remember who operated that bot. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:42, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Manilla NSW - Driver rest areasEdit

Dear Ground Zero,

I am writing here as I cannot reply in the usual channels from my cellphone.

If I am to accept your edits in good faith, then you must accept my entries in good faith.

I have lived, travelled, and worked in the New England Region of New South Wales for over 35 years. Outside annual events, the places in this region are not tourist destinations in themselves, but places travellers pass through on the way to somewhere else, such as between Melbourne and Brisbane. Travellers here are mostly interested in where to get fuel, food, somewhere to sleep, and where to get help if they need it - they couldn't care less about lively descriptions and clever adjectives.

Driver rest areas are not just 'litter bins' - they are part of a network to provide long-distance travellers a place to rest after driving for 2 hours in order to prevent crashes due to fatigue. Travellers often stay overnight at these rest areas in order to save on accommodation and time, and knowing what facilities are available is important for that kind of traveller. Some regional councils provide litter bins, some don't in order to reduce littering. These rest areas are well used, especially during school vacation, and helpful places to pull over in case of vehicle trouble. The distances between towns in New England are quotes far.

Your blanket deletion of the rest areas and their facilities without you showing good faith by just deleting it without the courtesy and decency of asking me why they're included, and just dismissing them as 'litter bins' can only be interpreted as ignorance or bad faith and vandalism. To assert that I have included the town's litter bins is offensive and incorrect.

We're supposed to be like a team here, not undercut each other. I write for the travellers, visitors, and tourists of these places, and the businesses of these places that rely on these people to survive - I don't write for Wikivoyage editors or to be an aspiring travel writer.

The businesses relying on travellers and visitors to New England here are doing it tough, they have just come out of 10 years of drought, then forest fires, then floods, and now Covid-19 restrictions - so many have failed. The surviving ones need all the help they can get - which is why I am writing in Wikivoyage in the first place.

All the entries for New England are utter rubbish or non-existent until I started my work. Go look at the entry for Tenterfield - it's been terrible for at least 10 years! I try to include all the traveller would find useful in order to make their time as fruitful and enjoyable as possible.

So please, before just jumping in and wiping out the work for a place on the other side of the world from you, someone who is subject matter expert on the region, stop, think and ask before jumping in.

I won't change how I create my entries because I have solid and practical reasons for including what I do.

KevRobbAU (talk) 03:45, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi, KevRobbAU. I moved your thread to the bottom of the page because the last thread goes at the bottom of each talk page. So wait a second: is it not the default for a rest area to have a litter bin? If it is, I think we should reserve the mention of them to "no litter bin" when there isn't one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The more important factor for Driver Rest Areas is the fact that it's somewhere a driver can pull safely off the road for a time. A driver is more concerned with amenities like toilets and picnic tables. Not all rest areas have bins (partly as an effort for the local goverment to save money, partly as an effort to reduce litter on the highways), but its not something that determines whether a driver will stop there or not - they'll either take their litter to the next town or their destination, or unfortunately leave their litter behind anyway. The NSW State Government has webpage with a map of these rest areas with their amenities, which is where I got my details from. Listing whether or not a rest areas has a toilet or picnic tables is far more important.

KevRobbAU (talk) 05:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I think we all agree on that. So maybe the trash bins in fact aren't essential to list (to be clear, I wouldn't have been motivated enough to consider whether to remove them, but I'm just saying). Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:46, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@KevRobbAU: I will ask you again to review the edit in question here. I think that you may have looked at it quickly, and not understood what I was doing before you reverted it. That edit shows that

  1. I did not "blanket delete the rest areas and their facilities".
  2. I did not delete information about toilets or picnic tables.
  3. I did not call rest areas "litter bins".
  4. I did delete the information specifically about literal litter bins because I don't believe — and we seem to have agreement on this point — that this is information that travellers really need. (Again, please review the edit in question.)
  5. I did make a bunch of corrections to punctuation and capitalisation errors, and you have now restored those errors.
  6. I did shorten one sentence without removing any information.

I want you be clear that I do not question your contributions to Wikivoyage. You are making constructive contributions to Wikivoyage, and our Australian coverage could definitely be improved, so you are doing good work. I do want to work together, and I really think that the starting point of this dispute is a misreading of my edit. Please take a look at it again. Ground Zero (talk) 11:57, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I will accept your acknowledgment of your misreading my entry as a regret. I too wish to collaborate and contribute. I wish to improve the quality and quantity of the Australian sections. But how and what I enter will not change. It's misunderstandings like this that do not help Wikivoyage to grow. I do appreciate the help the community has given me so far. But almost all the entries for this New England were far from acceptable until I came along, and all the larger towns still aren't. Take a look at the entry for Tenterfield - what a mess! And for Guyra, someone just put a redirection to Armidale on it for no good reason, there was not attempt to create an entry. And for Gunnedah, someone wrote how wonderful each hotel is in town, but no address or phone number for any of them! So I think its reasonable for me to be unimpressed for criticism of my articles while other rubbish entries seem to be ignored. Before I came along, if Wikivoyage deleted all the cities in New England NSW and made a clean slate, they wouldn't have been missed. I thank you for your understanding.

KevRobbAU (talk) 12:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@KevRobbAU: uh, no. I think you have misread my edit, because you have written that I have done a bunch of things I did not. I am not criticising your entries. I am only trying to improve articles. You will see from my edit history that, like you, I have contributed to the improvement of a lot of articles. I agree with you there are a lot of Wikivoyage articles that need improvement, and that is why we should work together. Ground Zero (talk) 12:38, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
OK, I think I get you now. But you need to understand that travelling in the rural and regional parts of Australia are nothing like the places you're probably used to. As I said, the places in our New England region here are not high-volume vacation destinations, so lively reading articles are not going to help much. Aussies are pretty knowledgeable about our geography, they would already know the basic things about these places, so that is one reason why there aren't many full articles around. I also believe that creating fully detailed articles right from the start would help reduce vandalism, because as it stands, the entries I've seen so far for here aren't worthy of respect - I first had decided not to write anything at all at first:.; As an olive branch to all concerned, I'd like to offer my help in regards to subject matter about eastern Australia to those from not there who want to help and contribute. An ideal solution would be to have some kind of 'Oceania admin' to check over things published/edited here, leaving you and others to look after the places you know best. I don't want the gig myself, New England and the cities around it are going to take me months to get up to scratch. Thank you for your compliments, and when I get the opportunity I'd like to see your entries. I'm currently writing the entry for Moree - it's a very large town so it will take me a few days to put it to bed, but its a gaping hole in Wikivoyage. The only places I won't touch in New England here are Tamworth and Armidale, as they are relatively large cities and too much work for just one person to work on, it would take me weeks to improve it. Thanks again for your understanding. KevRobbAU (talk) 13:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. I am glad that we understand each other better now. Have a good week. Ground Zero (talk) 14:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks and requestEdit

Thanks for blocking the user disrurpting me on my talk page. However, I am requesting to hide the edit summary of the log (Special:redirect/logid/3663811) when they created my talk page with offensive text. Regards, Sun8908 (talk) 07:08, 7 March 2021 (UTC)