Talk:Italy/Archive 2004-2012

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Oldest message

So I just killed the very detailed explination of how to cheat ticket-takers on various forms of Italian transportation. While I have no problem with creative budget travel solutions, it really was an overwhelming amount of information, much of which was not Italy-specific (i.e. you can also hide in the bathroom or under a seat on a French train). If someone wants to a)convince me it's really important to have all that there or b)rework/slim down the info, I'd prolly not mind having it back in... otherwise ciao bella (WT-en) Majnoona 15:00, 3 Feb 2004 (EST)

I think that it might make a good travel topic: How to cheat on train tickets. We might also want to have Sneaking into movie theaters, How to dine and ditch and How to run a three-card monte game. --(WT-en) Evan 15:28, 3 Feb 2004 (EST)

The area comparison with Arizona ( of all places in the world ) is ment in a humouristique way, i suppose?

Uh, no. The CIA factbook stuff always compares the size of a country to a US State. So Italy, land-mass-wise, is around the size of Arizona. It helps Americans imagine a world beyond the US ;-). 216.99.97.2 15:12, 27 Mar 2004 (EST)

The difference is that there are 60 millions inhabitants in Italy. ;o) (WT-en) Yann 15:45, 27 Mar 2004 (EST)

I'll mention that to the CIA next time they ask me ;-P. 216.99.97.2 16:03, 27 Mar 2004 (EST)

See also Project:How to de-factbook a country page. (WT-en) Majnoona 15:14, 27 Mar 2004 (EST)

CIA Factbook is for Americans and they assume (possibly unfairly) that all Americans are ignorant and stupid and can't understand the size of a country unless it's compared with an American state. They also assume that Americans won't know where a city is located unless the country name is quoted too (London, England and Sao Paolo, Brazil for example). Let's now assume that the readers are stupid - most aren't.--217.203.169.150 17:21, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

Dude! (or dudette) calm down, The World Factbook import is back from the birth of Wikivoyage in 2004, and was imported here to get Wikivoyage started. There are no more Factbook'ed countries left in wikivoyage, so you can stop worrying. As for the cities, I think it's safe to assume it's just a juxtaposition to city/country the same way as many American cities are refered to as city/state. As for the sizes I also find it usable to know that Texas is size of Germany (if that was the case), since I have a pretty good idea how big Germany is, and not much of a concept of Texas other than it's large, has oil and many rednecks who speaks with a funny accent. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 18:24, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

Laptop/Wifi/Theft?

I'm planning a weeklong trip to Italy. I was hoping to take my laptop, so I'd have entertainment on the long flights and train rides. However, many of my friends expressed concerns about the possibility of laptop theft. I was hoping some people here could offer some advice.

1. Is laptop theft prevalent in Italy? I'm mostly concerned about it somehow being snatched in a public area, but I suppose I'd also be worried about it being stolen from my hotel.
2. Is free wifi available at Cafes and public areas in Italy?

As for the particulars, I'll be going to Florence and Rome, and I'm going to be staying in hotels, not hostels. I guess I'm being a little vague here, but any input you can give me would be greatly appreciated. --(WT-en) DropDeadGorgias 12:55, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Unless you plan to bring it to bars and get very drunk, I wouldn't worry about it. I have travelled with laptops in many countries without any problems. Of course I often take an old laptop when traveling but that is mostly because I am afraid of dropping it or breaking it when throwing it in a boat or something like that. Just put it in a normal knapsack, not a shiny new bag, that says "expensive IBM laptop".

In hotels I never worry about anything too big to put in a small pocket. Actually apart from cash, credit cards and paperwork (and jewelry if I had any), I don't worry about anything.

A laptop is not more expensive than a good suit or a camera. If it would make you feel better, you could bring a laptop-lock and lock it to a heater.

Check if your insurance will cover it if it is stolen

I haven't been to Italy for a while, but I go there in July, so please update WikiTravel if you find some good WiFi spots. --(WT-en) elgaard 15:03, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Oh, I'm not going until August... I'm just anal about planning stuff ;-). Where in WikiTravel would this information go? --(WT-en) DropDeadGorgias 15:08, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Avoid going there around August the 15th. It's Ferragosto (from: Ferie di Agosto - August holiday) and just everybody goes everywhere. --(WT-en) vicky 9 Jul 2005

Now that I searched for WiFi I found Where_you_can_stick_it which says to put it under "Contact" not "Cope". --(WT-en) elgaard 15:59, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Then I might add some WiFI spots. I plan to bring my Yopy PDA with WiFi.

If there is a hotspot in a cafe or restaurant and the food/drink is good, I add the place under "Eat" or "Drink" and note it has WiFi, because if I come to a city and WikiTravel list a cafe that has good coffee, food, beer and WiFi, that is where I will go :-) Then I mention the cafes and other WiFi spots in "Cope".

Se Lafayette for an example.

See Internet_access#Wireless --(WT-en) elgaard 15:55, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

I'm assuming DropDeadGorgias is from the UK, USA or elsewhere in Europe or the Americas. Would you travel with a laptop in your own country? Italy isn't much different - indeed most crime is far lower than in the UK, USA and South America. Unless you are flauting your riches in the street or intending to use a stupidly expensive Apple computer then don't worry. Free wi-fi is virtually non-existant and is illegal. There are very strict Internet laws in Italy and all communications are monitored. Cyber cafes and offices must note the identity number (passport number for foreigners) before you can use the Internet. All residents with wireless Internet must secure their network with a password preventing others from using it. If you have a UMTS/HSPDA modem and are willing to buy a SIM card in Italy then you'll find Internet access at fairly high speeds in most towns and cities but you'll have to pay for the SIM and web access (pre-pay or monthly pay) and still need ID to buy the SIM card.--217.203.169.150 17:26, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

What's wrong with bringing a laptop? A bit judgemental here are we? pretty fair question to ask if you've never been to a place. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 18:24, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

External links

Yesterday, I added a link to http://www.italianvisits.com which has since been removed. I would like to initiate a discussion about this in light of a similar discussion which is taking place on the main page for Italy in Wikipedia. We seem to have been accepted in the External links section there, at least provisionally, and on the External link sections of many of the regional and "city" pages throughout the Italian section because we offer quality information, photographs and links that are useful to Wikipedia users. There is a concern however, that by allowing ItalianVisits.com and UltimateItaly.com to remain on the main Italy page in Wikipedia, that it will open the floodgates to other tourist site operators who will want to post there. It seems to me that if an "External tourist sites" section is added to this article, it could go a long way to solving the problem AND serve the interests of Wiki users better. I would further suggest that although there are hundreds of "Italian" websites, there are actually very few that offer quality national coverage. A kind of floodgate might open, but if a few, simple criteria were developed for determining which should remain and which not, then it is more than manageable. As I said, I think this is worth a discussion....and would hope to hear from interested Wikipedians. —The preceding comment was added by 64.59.144.24 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 2005 October 3.

I'm sure you'll hear from a number of Wikipedians about WikiPedia:Italy on the WikiPedia:Talk:Italy page.

As for Wikivoyage, we have well-worn discussions about Project:External links and our criteria are pretty clear-cut. If you'd like to discuss Wikivoyage with Wikivoyagers (many of whom are also Wikipedians, by the way -- me included), you should bring it up on Project:External links. Be forewarned that it's a hot subject that's come up many times. --(WT-en) Evan 13:29, 3 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Just browsing...

Sorry for the long posting. Tiramis� is definetly not from Sicily, its origins trace back either to Treviso or Siena. Sicilians could not stand it. "Americans will notice that Italian pasta often has a myriad of sauces rather than simply tomato and alfredo." - true enough, but the matter is different: alfredo sauce is not Italian. You will not find it in Italy and do not try to explain Italians what it is - it is disgusting to Italian taste. "Limoncello can be considered a "moon shine" type of product as every Italian family, especially in the middle (near Napoli)" - Napoli is the capital of the South, Mid Italy starts a few km south of Rome and ends a few km south of Bologna. I would rather correct it with "especially in the south (near Napoli)". Also, you find little lemon production in mid Italy, it is more a southern Italian thing. "An additional note: There are many bars in Italy that cater to tourists and foreigners with "home country" themes, calling themselves such things as "American bars" or "Irish pubs." In addition to travelers, these bars attract a large number of Italians who, among other reasons, go there specifically to meet travelers and foreigners. And while the motivation for the vast majority of these Italians is simply to have a good time with new friends, there can be one or two petty criminals who loiter in and out of these establishments hoping to take advantage of travelers who are disoriented or drunk. Traveling to these places in groups is a simple solution to this problem." - huu, I do not know about that. THe point is that Italians love foreign names, especially English ones, so some 80% of the bars have a (misspellt) English name. I guess most crimes statistically happen in bars with foregn names simply because they are the majority. Posted by dschiavon. no, not a user. 5:32 pm 20/12/2005. —The preceding comment was added by 80.16.106.226 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 2005 December 20.

Milan airport

I strongly can not consider Milan as the primary air transport hub for Italy.

A rotten policy by Alitalia has made Milan not an hub anymore. If you look at Alitalia timetable or if you look at the international flight departing from Malpensa you will find that from Milan depart only short haul flight. Whit the exception of some touristic destination (like Cuba, Mexico, santo Domingo, and so on) the only long haul destination departing from Milan are Brazil, Argentina, Bejin and Tokio. (this waht I found out some days ago inspetting the departure from MXP). In the Alitalia opinion one has to flight to Rome and change flight (hence it is Rome that is an hub) or flight to a different European hub (usually by a flight that is codeshared and operated by an Alitalia partner). 82.54.129.63 12:14, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

See section

"See" section exceed country template and is almost useless because of the enormous amount of monuments in this country. Should we delete it? (by the way, all contributions to that section are mine, at time I didn't know about country template).

Just put the highlights there. More elaborate lists can be put in the region articles. -- (WT-en) Colin 19:21, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Cities and Other Destinations

The Cities and Other Destinations sections seem a bit out of control. Maybe a Wikivoyager who, unlike me, has been to Italy could do some editorial work. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 10:56, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Respect

Someone that is not to tired to do it can add respect for italy. --212.247.27.92 17:18, 20 November 2006 (EST)

Thumbs up gesture is considered offensive? By whom? Never heard such a thing anywere in Italy! The reference to gladiators is a bit naive: do you expect someone nowdays in Italy to remember gladiators? We just watch Big Brother and similia... I'd just erase the part about the thumbs up gesture and its supposed offensivedness. Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by 87.25.62.90 (talk • contribs) 10:38, 2009 January 9

Done. (WT-en) Wikibob ^Talk 17:57, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Missing Content

I'm really surprised this section about Italy does not mention the Vespa (or scooters) under getting around. Afterall, the Vespa is a cultural icon in Italy and huge numbers of people use scooters to get around. Who would need to approve such an addition? --User:(WT-en) Quietleader 19:26, 3 February 2007 (PST)

Some changes

"Mobile Phones":

Since March 2007 a law cancelled the recharge fares for all the Italians prepaid simcards.

"Beware of": "If you have a rental car expect to get fined even if you have paid for the parking and have a valid parking ticket"

I lived for more than 30 years in Italy, in the last 10 years i was using rented cars provided from my company and i never heard something like this.

Also, nearly all the rented cars have nothing that can identify them as coming from rental services (Hertz, Europcar, Avis don't have any stickers or neither a personalized license plate frame), so i have no clue how "scammer officers" could understand is a rented car.

Actually, if you have to beware, do it with parking controllers, as often they are "wannabee-cops" a lot less tolerant compared to policemen.

"By Car":

The thing is a little messy:

For the Italian Traffic Code, while your speed is checked by a speed radar, they have to apply a tolerance of 5% with a minimum of 5 km/h.

That means: if you're driving 60 km/h they consider it as 55 km/h (the 5% of 60 km/h is 3 km/h, but they must apply at least 5 km/h of tolerance). We deduce that the 5% is appliable only for every speed over 100 km/h. 213.10.0.191 14:49, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

Sleep/bivouac outside camps

Any info about sleeping in the wild? Is it legal as in Finland or Sweden? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Multimotyl (talk • contribs) 12:40, 2008 February 25.

In Italy we don't understand the romanian!

"Other Romance languages, especially Spanish or Romanian, although in Italy there are many romanian immigrants, Romanian is not understood. Maybe it's better to know latin, there is always in every town a priest that know its. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Tezaro (talk • contribs) 10:49, 2008 May 28.

I agree, and I have removed the "most Italians are more knowing and willing to speak them over English" claim regarding "other Roman languages". My limited experience as a tourist is that German was mostly understood in the Tyrol region, and that among Italian locals around Rome and Como, simple, clearly spoken English is possibly Ok. Of course, simple, clear and slowly spoken Italian is better. (WT-en) Wikibob ^Talk 11:36, 23 December 2008 (EST)

In Italy men don't walk arm-in-arm or hand-in-hand

It has the same homosexual connotation as there might be in the United States.

Maybe they should. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:09, 1 February 2010 (EST)

About pizza

You will have trouble if you follow these instructions, when you want to buy pizza....they never sell pizza based on weight (ex: 200 gr), you can only ask for "a slice of pizza", "two slice of pizza" and so on...how big it is a slice of pizza depends on the single shop... —The preceding comment was added by 87.11.21.197 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 2008 June 17

It is not true that they never sell by weight. I have bought pizza from a coop shop (not in a tourist area) which sold it by weight after I indicated how large a slice I wanted. The "slice" was cut from a one metre by half metre tray. The counter person can estimate how heavy any slice would be, but do not expect the result to be exact. I received a ticket which showed the exact weight and the total price which I paid at the checkout. I would agree that some shops only sell by slice, but I have little experience of tourist areas, just residential areas where the locals go. (WT-en) Wikibob ^Talk 10:33, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Man, I'm italian, you can get a pizza by weight only in supermarkets (as coop shop is), normally they sell it by slice. --62.94.171.30 08:13, 11 February 2009 (EST)

Milan

.. moral capital of Italy? Maybe economic, but the moral capital of Italy is and ever had been Rome. 85.18.136.83 05:53, 7 December 2008 (EST)

I removed the reference (what the heck is a "moral capital" anyway). Please feel free to do so yourself in the future. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:34, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Cities

• L'Aquila is the capital of Abruzzi, 100km northeast from Rome, on a 700m hill. According to tradition, it was built from 99 villages, although the Fontana delle 99 Cannelle (Fountain of 99 spouts) built in 1272 started with only 63 spouts. There are 99 piazzas and 99 churches, one spanish castle, and there is the famous Basilica di Santa Maria di Collemaggio.
• Palermo is the capital of Sicily, and has had a rich history under many conquerors: the Greeks, Carthagians, Romans, Vandals, Goths, Byzantines, Arabs, Normans, Angevins, Aragoneses, Augsburg and the Bourbons. It is full of monuments from that history.

I de-Babelized, expanded, and then moved the above two cities from the article because the html comment there stated "Please do not change this list without first discussing your proposed change on the talk page. Cities lists are limited by Wikivoyage policy to NINE.". (WT-en) Wikibob ^Talk 17:01, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Facism

"During WWII, Italians had a difficult time under the dictator Benito Mussolini, especially after the infamous alliance with Adolf Hitler fell and the Germans turned into enemies. After 60 years this still can be a very sensitive subject and you should simply avoid it, unless you want to seriously discuss. Avoid jokes on the subject too. All Fascist symbolism is prohibited by law and it is well enforced; punishments extend from fines to several years in prison. Just like in Spain and other former-Axis countries and Axis-occupied areas, foreigners are not exempt from this law." Who ever has written this, has no clue about Italy. They have now laws compared to Germany and their are sill a lot of facist monuments in major Italian cities.

internet

a general caution is ok but a specific comment about a specific scam is unweildly because there are allot more than one on the internet

Outline?

Surely this is more than just an outline page now? (WT-en) Timoa 17:39, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

I'd argue that the Do section is still very weak (compare, for example, Germany's). Other than that, it should get bumped up to at least usable. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 17:49, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

All linked cities and non-region other destination articles need to be at least usable. I didn't check the nine cities, but of the other destinations, Praja a Mare, Courmayeur, and Elba are still at outline status.

Sardinia remote?

I don't really think you can call Sardinia remote (even though my wife complains we have never been there!) It has three (I think) airports served by Rome and excellent ferry connections. It is a major tourism destination for Italians (and there are flights from other European countries too).(WT-en) Shep 01:13, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

Right now it is described in terms of its location instead of its intrigue/culture/sites, which is rather dull in comparison to the nice descriptions of other regions, so if you know enough about Sardinia, I can't see anyone having a problem with you making the description more lively and representative of the island. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:40, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

By boat

Is this quite the message Wikivoyage wants to send? Expensive yacht charters. There is a lot to say in this section--there are ferries all over the place connecting the mainland with the islands. Does someone have the knowledge to write it? (WT-en) Shep 14:18, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

Cortona

Methinks a contributor to this page comes from Cortona. It is a very nice little town but does it really rate a mention under Other Destinations when so many places are not included and is the Etruscan Museum at Cortona really a major museum?(WT-en) Shep 14:53, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

Heh, I had been meaning to revert that addition. It also doesn't belong there since it is not an "other" destination—that is, other than cities/towns/etc. The OD list should also be trimmed to nine, although I'll leave that to someone more knowledgeable (such as yourself ;) --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 15:22, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

93.34.49.159

I think 93.34.49.159 must be annoyed because of all the edits. The content was very good but it just needed to go into better English.

Anyway, I have almost finished English and other editing so I hope that Italy is a bit better now. What sections are missing: what needs to be elaborated?(WT-en) Shep 01:14, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

The History Subsection in Understand Section is empty. Further, See and Do Sections need to be expanded. (WT-en) ClausHansen 01:25, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

93.34.49.159 and fascism discussion

Hello to everybody.

First of all: I am sorry if I could to something wrong. It is the first time I write something on Wikipedia related site, so if I make some mistake of "netiquette", I am very sorry.

I really did appreciate corrections in grammar, but what I don't understand is why (if I am not wrong) it was removed

1) the section about how to behave in shops. I had friends from foreign countries, above all from Russia, that were very surprises from the habit in Italy to say "Hello" when entering in a shop, even if the clerk is not so close to you. They were surprised too from our habit (not only italian but west-european) to always smile even to strangers if talking to them (for example asking for road indications)

2) the section about languages is, in my opinion, useful because many tourists think that in Italy we understand french and spanish, and this is not true, we just understand a little bit spanish if it is spoke not so fast. And many french tourists from Paris come here and they simply speak french like it is normal for us to understand it.

3) the secion about fascism ideology is written from someone that really doesn't know Italy. Fascism ideology is completly out of politic in Italy, except for very few people that cannot organize themselves in political parties because in Italy having a "Fascist Partie" is forbidden from the law. Writing that things you give an absolutly wrong idea of Italy and you put people reading wikivoyage in dangerous situations, because they think it would be very easy to speak about such topics or even to joke about them.

I am italian, I am born in the south, near the sea, but like many italians I went to study at University and working in the north, in Milan. I know VERY WELL my country, the attitude of his people, his good point and his problems. I know other european cultures having had friends and partners from many european countries, above all est and north europe.

I would like to stop this edit war, maybe to write again my advices in the RESPECT section and having them corrected just from the grammar point of view, without giving to people wrong information about Italy. So I will wait before editing again. :-)

Just to respond to the first point: smiling in public and greeting store owners are not practices limited to Italy—they are commonplace throughout most of the world, and we don't like to repeat information across many articles. I don't think this information should be added to the respect section. (Not smiling in public and not greeting shopkeepers is rather limited to the FSU.) --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:12, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Hey there, don't feel guttered, the vast majority of what you wrote is still there, it has just been moved around in different sections to fit better with how we do things.

1. Check the last subsection of Buy for your introduction to shopping in Italy.
2. Check the Talk section in the top where most of the langauge information have been moved
3. And check the Racism paragraph in Respect for facism information

--(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 14:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Don't stop writing. You've contributed some great material. Please contribute more (see suggestions about what is required in the section above this one). If you think parts of the present text are now inaccurate please have a go at rewriting them, but don't just cut and paste back your original text as there were a few too many grammatical errors. Let me know when you make changes and I'll take an editorial look. Consider adopting a User Name for ease of communication. (WT-en) Shep 14:32, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

I see you have rewritten the bit on Fascism. Whether or not Italy still has a strong fascist culture is arguable. Would it not be better just to remove this section altogether or just edit it to say that it is not a good idea to raise the matter in conversation, and leave it at that?(WT-en) Shep 17:49, 31 October 2009 (EDT)

Excuse me, but in italy there are too few fascist to need advice about it. It's a little offensive reading things like that. (PS: I edit the part of magicians chef. It' simply ridicolous)

Yes mate, it is ridiculus but don't forget that many tourists (above all from United States) think it is funny to do things like showing the right arm or to make jokes about italian (and german) past. Try to read the wikivoyage page about Germany, where they advice to avoid such jokes ^_^

About fascism: It is possible to discuss this topic with elder or young people: just avoid fanatism or jokes. And avoid the roman salute: besides being illegal (but you probably won't get fined, don't worry), it's considered offensive or simply stupid.

Even though I'm italian (and I spent many years in the south) I've never heard of the "crossed hand-shake that brings bad luck". And my grandad neither :-) Last point: I don't think it's dangerous hichhincking for women. The rate of violent crime is low (EU standars) and most of it is due to mafia (tourists and/or hichhickers are safe). Of course, if the driver seems strange, avoid to get in the car, but this is an international good-sense rule.

History section

OK, I've had a go at this. But history is not my strength so I look for the Collaboration of the Month to improve it. Ciao(WT-en) Shep 15:31, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Yacht charters

Allowing yacht charter listings in destinations where there are literally hundreds, is a slippery slope for sure. A spam magnet if there ever was one. I have deleted all of them from this article.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:12, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

Cities order

I would like to change the cities section, ordering them according to their population. Anyone objects? --62.241.5.85 11:21, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

For countries we typically list the capital city first, followed by the other cities in alphabetical order. Unless there is a specific advantage to re-ordering by population for Italy it seems like it makes sense to follow that standard in this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:24, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

National Parks

I cut these from the "Other destinations" list, put them here for the future in case someone wants to use them.

National Parks

Alps

• <see name="Gran Paradiso" alt="" address="region Piemont, Aosta Valley" directions="first national park in Italy, founded 1972, former hunting area of the Izalien kings, area: 70.000 ha" phone="011-8606221" email="" fax="" url="www.parks.it/parco.nazinale.gran.paradiso" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Stilfserjoch National Park" alt="" address="region Lombardia, Trentino-South Tyrol" directions="founded 1935, area: 135.000 ha" phone="0342-910100" email="" fax="" url="www.stelviopark.it" hour="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Valgrande National Park" alt="" address="region Piemont" directions="founded 1991" phone="0323-557960" email="" fax="" url="www.parcovalgrande.it" hour="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Dolomiti Bellunesi National Park" alt="" address="Region Giulia-Venezia" directions="founded 1988" phone="0439-3328" email="" fax="" url="www.dolomitipark.it" hour="" price=""></see>

Apennines

• <see name="Abruzzzi Lazio Molise National Park" alt="" address="regiones Abruzzi, Lazio, Molise" directions="founded 1923" phone="0863-910715" email="" fax="" url="www.pna.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Majella National Park" alt="" address="Region Abruzzi" directions="founded 1991" phone="0871-80371" email="" fax="0871-800340" url="www.parcomajella.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Gran Sasso and Monti della Laga National Park" alt="" address="regions Abruzzi, Lazio. Marche" directions="founded 2001, area. 150.000 ha, with the highest momtain in the Apennines Corno Grande, 2.912 meters, and the southernmost glacier in Europe, Calderone" phone="0862 60521" email="" fax="" url="www.gransassolagapark.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Toscana Emilia Apennines National Park" alt="" address="regions Emilia Romagna, Toscana"" directions="founded 2001, area 26.000 ha, with extensive beech-tree forests" phone="0522 891200-891585" email="" fax="0522-891587" url="www.parcogigante.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Forests of Casentino, Monti Falterona und Campigna National Park " alt="" address="regions Emilia Romagna, Toscana" directions="founded 1989, area: 36.400 ha" phone="0575 50301" email="" fax="0575 504497" url="www.parks.it/parco.nazionale.for.casentinesi" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Sibllini Mountains National Park" alt="" address="regions Marche, Umbria" directions="founded 1988, area: 71.000 ha" phone="0737 971711" email="" fax="0737 972707" url="www.sibillini.net" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Cilento und Vallo di Diano National Park" alt="" address="region Campania" directions="founded 1991, area: 180.000 ha " phone=0974 719911"" email="" fax="0974 7199217" url="www.pncvd.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Mount Vesuvius National Park" alt="" address="region Campania" directions="founded 1991, area: 8480 ha, Mount Vesuvius being the only active vulcano in Europe" phone="0871 7710911" email="" fax="" url="www.vesuviopark.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Pollino National Park" alt="" address="regions Basilicata, Calabria" directions="founded 1988, area: 192.000 ha" phone="0973 661692" email="" fax="0973 667802" url="www.parcpolino.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Calabria National Park" alt="" address="region Calabria" directions="founded 1968, area: 12.700 ha" phone="0984 71093" email="" fax="" url="www.parks.it/parco.nazionale.calabria" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Aspromonte National Park" alt="" address="region Calabria" directions="founded 1989, area: 78.000 ha" phone="0965 743060" email="" fax="0695 734026" url="www.parks.it/parco.nazionale.aspromonte" hours="" price=""></see>

Coasts and Islands

• <see name="Cinque Terre National Park" alt="" address="region Liguria" directions="founded 1999, area: 3.850 ha" phone="0187 760000" email="" fax="0187 760061" url="www.parconazionale5terre.it" hours="" rice=""></see>

• <see name="Toscana Archipelago National Park" alt="" address="region Toscana" directions="founded 1989, area: 17.700 ha land, 61.000 ha sea" phone="0565 919411" email="" fax="" url="www.iselpark.it" hours=""

• <see name="Circeo National Park" alt="" address="region Lazio" directions="founded 1934, area: 8.400 ha" phone="0773 544385" email="" fax="" url="www.parks.it/parco.nazionale.circeo" hours="" price=""></see>price=""></see>

• <see name="La Maddalena National Park" alt="Region Sardinien" address="" directions="gegründet 1994, Fläche: 5.130 ha Land, 15.000 ha Meer" phone="0789 720044" email="" fax="0789 720050" url="www.maddalenapark.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Asinara National Park" alt="" address="region Sardinia" directions="founded 1997, area: 5.350 ha land, 21.800 ha sea" phone="079 503388" email="" fax="079 501415" url="www.parcoasinara.it" hours="" price=""></see>

• <see name="Gargano National Park" alt="" address="region Puglia" directions="founded 1991, area: 120.000 ha" phone="0884 568911" email="" fax="0884 561648" url="www.parogargano.it" hours="" price=""></see>

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:43, 26 July 2010 (EDT)

Get Around: By Bus

This section really isn't of much use for the Italy section (instead of the individual cities) as it only describes how to get around cities, as opposed to traveling between different cities. Presumably there are some long/medium distance bus companies that go between various cities and regions in Italy, and if not it should be stated.

77.49.46.27 15:12, 30 July 2010 (EDT) (Arg, can't remember my password.)

Other destinations

I am not sure why either Vatican City or Praja a Mare are listed here. The Vatican is covered by the listing of Rome as a city destination. Praja, while undoubtedly charming, is technically a city and doesn't seem to me to have the multiple attractions required for a destination listing. I think it was added by some enthusiastic promoter of the place who also inserted the city in many pages under the Get Out section. (WT-en) Shep 14:49, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

So change it :) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:21, 24 August 2011 (EDT)

I have replaced the Vatican City by Vesuvius (it's technically not even a part of Italy, and already covered as a district of Rome). --(WT-en) Globe-trotter 18:08, 13 November 2011 (EST)

Get around: by car

In the section about motorway toll boots, it is stated: "Bring cash & know that backing out of a toll lane is normal!". There are indeed some people doing it, but it is not at all normal and most of all, it's illegal and very heavily fined; definitely not advisable as the article now does. Therefore I'm modifying that section. Also, in English "highway" just means a major road (it could also be a "strada statale"), while the correct term for "autostrada" is "motorway" or "freeway". (WT-en) Faxre99 09:30, 24 August 2011 (EDT)

Good changes. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:26, 24 August 2011 (EDT)

A self contradiction

In the section Getting around/By car, the article states that "Non-resident drivers are required to pay their fines on the spot, and the police won't hesitate to escort you to the nearest ATM to withdraw the cash you need." but further down under the heading Stay safe/crime it says that "Policemen in Italy are not authorized to collect fines of any kind and have no authority to ask you for money for any reason." We ought to find a source and delete whichever is wrong. --(WT-en) Nuclear Warhead 14:49, 11 October 2011 (EDT)

Here is section 207 of the Italian Traffic Code. It states that if an offence is committed with a vehicle with foreign registration, the driver can choose either to accept the fine and pay it immediately to the notifying officer, who must issue a receipt; or, if the driver intends to appeal, to pay a deposit immediately for an amount of half of the maximum fine. Either way, the driver is forced to pay something on the spot. The sentence you are quoting about policemen not authorized to collect money only applies to vehicles with an Italian registration, whose drivers may not pay the fine on the spot. Hence I'm going to modify that sentence accordingly. (WT-en) Faxre99 09:12, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Literature: The Leopard

Under the Literature section, please add The Leopard (Il Gattopardo) by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa, which "...chronicles the changes in Sicilian life and society during the Risorgimento." (Quote from Wikipedia) I'd do it myself but I couldn't figure out how. —The preceding comment was added by 67.166.168.27 (talk • contribs)

Great book, but might it not be better suited to the Sicily article? --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 15:14, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

Grand Prix de France photo?

A mistake has been made. Instead of "Bologna (the red terracotta roofs and brick towers of the city's skyline)," this photo of the Grand Prix de France [1] was linked to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)