Talk:Kununurra

Guide Status?

Ok, I'm going to call it a day on this one. I've taken it about as far as I can and now want to put my energies elsewhere. I'm happy with it as is, but is it up to article guide status?. I checked with the (sketchy) criteria and compared some other guide status articles and I think Kununurra is equal to many. Given that I have pretty much written this one myself, I'm hesitant to be so bold as to call it a guide. Does anyone concur? If not, what needs to be fixed? - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 02:43, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

Great work! Since you know the city, I assume there are no major ommissions, which makes this is a clear-cut guide, I'd say! I see User:(WT-en) Burmesedays has already given it guide status. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:06, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

Yes! I made that call before reading this. A very nice article indeed. Excellent work. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 03:08, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

Maps

Kununurra town

Kununurra town

I had my first attempt at making some maps and wanted to get some feedback from any experienced mapmakers about them. Not everything is in there yet and some of the colours/pattens are not standard (pattens seem to make my computer grind to a halt), but as far as a map and its elements goes, suggestions/criticisms are appreciated. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 07:29, 21 May 2010 (EDT)

Excellent effort! Strange that the patterns are effecting your set up like that. Are you using a Wikivoyage template? Looks like you are. I ask that as if not, patterns are clumsy and you need to manually set the pattern as an object before using it. A few minor comments:

• Font size for the street names is too small. If you still have legibility problems after increasing the size, try using Dejavu Condensed Bold - it can help.
• If patterns remain an issue, I would suggest using the park green and water aqua from the patterns as a solid colour. Then it will look like a standard Wikivoyage map (just without patterns).
• Please credit the source of the map. This is really important. I imagine it is OpenStreetMap? To save retyping the scoop on map markup, please see the message to another map maker here.

Really good stuff and it is great to have another map maker here. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:20, 21 May 2010 (EDT)

Thanks for your feedback. I've made revisions and put up new versions. I've upped the font size and got the patterns in. It was difficult to fit all the Eat/Sleep icons into the town and had to make an inset. I wonder how useful the Wider Kununurra map is other than showing Lake Argyle and the border, is it worth keeping? If there are no problems, standards wise, I'll put them on the page. Once I get the hang of mapmaking with these I'd like to work on some Perth maps. - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 04:50, 22 May 2010 (EDT)

That's a super first time effort, it really is. My early maps were downright embarrassing. This is anything but that. The inset works well - would be nice to have a scale on it if you could. My only other comment is that the river would look neater if you applied a stroke. That might just be my view though, so ignore if you wish! Great effort and well done. I hope you found the Project:How to draw a map guide helpful :). --(WT-en) Burmesedays 07:33, 22 May 2010 (EDT)

Distance & time

The "by car, from Broome" section has "taking 4-5 days to cover the 1044 km if you push it". Is it a difficult road? That is under 300 km a day. Assuming both road and vehicle are good, my idea of "pushing it" would cover that distance in under two days. 8 hours at 80 kph is 640 km a day. (WT-en) Pashley 06:01, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

Later, the bus section says the bus from Broome is 14 hours. So why should driving take 4-5 days? Should we be mentioning some scenic stops? (WT-en) Pashley 06:05, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

Good point. I have never driven it myself but that's what I hear from people who have. They would be stopping off regularly I imagine. If a couple days sounds about right, I'll change it. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 08:03, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

Star nomination discussion Kununurra

I'm nominating this one now as it is soon to be a OTBP feature and it would be mighty nice for it to be a star when its up there. I don't think it is too far off star-hood but no doubt others we spot the wrinkles I missed. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 00:12, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

• Close Full support (WT-en) jan 09:11, 24 September 2010 (EDT)I have seen the article in the past several times and really liked it's improvement. Here are my points: The Get in by plane section is not fully listingfied as in Nusa Lembongan. The distances are already discussed on the talk page and it should be clarified how long it takes. Last point is that the map. When i look at the Kimberly map the border to NT looks pretty close. Is Kununurra a interstate border town? Then in the get in section not only the distance to Katherine should be named but also how far the border for Quarantine is. All in all very good manageable for star before the otbp premiere starts. Excellent job! (WT-en) jan 15:40, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

I have made the changes to address the points. Flights listingified and updated. A few changes to distances etc. Just need to drum up some more support to push it over the starhood line. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 04:01, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

• Support Looks pretty good to me. Possibly a map to show where it is in context of the rest of Australia would be useful, though a click on the Kimberley link gets that anyway. It is just that as an OTBP, people will tend to wonder where it is, as they are unlikely to have heard of it, and most non-Australians, even if they have heard of the Kimberleys, probably dont know exactly where they are. (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 04:01, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

• Almost Support. It looks pretty good, however, the map misses some of the listings, eg all of the Buy and Drink listings. And why are some of the roads with dotted lines?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 06:14, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

Drink and Buy added to the map and uploaded. The dotted lines are unsealed roads. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 05:49, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

• Almost This is a very good article i think, but there are a few things that should be fixed if possible

• There is some mishap with the email address for Kununurra Visitor Centre, the phone number is repeated twice as an email address.
• IANANS but isn't "there isn't a local bus" bad english? it's repeated a few times in the guide
• Rumours Patisserie and The Argyle Room, Liquorland, Thirsty Camel Bottle-O, the Aussie Bar and KG Sports Bar lacks opening hours

Should be easy to fix up, and then I'd happily throw my support. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 07:16, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

These points have been addressed now. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 09:39, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

Support then, good work, I know first hand how tedious it can get to push guides that final stretch --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 10:22, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

• Almost Support. Here are some more minor remarks:

1. Ord River or Ord river
2. days of the week in the listings in the get in section should either be abbreviated to the minimum number of letters (standard), or spelled out in full (if the abbreviation looks odd)
3. it looks odd to bold 'local bus service' in the get around section when there actually is not any
4. consider to make an intro to the do section
5. consider to inform about prices for some more of the restaurants
6. in Gulliver's Tavern, should it be W-Sa or W-Su?

--(WT-en) ClausHansen 09:42, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

These points have been fixed now. Ord River is capitalised. Local bus rewritten. Prices added. Days corrected. Intro to the Do section will get revised later when I think of something better to write. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 10:19, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

• Support An entirely unscientific reaction: this article really made me want to go there. (WT-en) Rezendi 19:56, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

• Support, absolutely—beautiful article! The time has already passed for comments, so please feel free to promote the article to star status. A couple things I did catch, though:

1) Kimberley Fine Diamonds needs hours—best to call or shoot them an email to find out;

2) Personally, I would omit most email addresses (how often does one need to email a restaurant?) to save space. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:04, 1 October 2010 (EDT)

• Thanks all for your help and support in getting this over the line. Very much appreciated. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 06:43, 10 October 2010 (EDT)

Updating page

User:SHB2000, it is unreasonable to insist that this page can only be edited by keeping it exactly the same. It needs extensive work to bring it to a good standard and I have plunged forward to do so. No contributor should be asked to seek permission cap in hand to improve this or any other page.

The content was mostly created in 2010 and since then mankind has invented fire, the wheel, dynamic maps and many other conveniences. Much was out of date, and the static map is no longer relevant.

Content was disjointed, thus seeing the national park and walking in it were presented as if completely separate entities. Similarly the K Hotel, the K Hotel restaurant, the K Hotel Bar and K Hotel bottle shop were disconnected overlaps; I was surprised not to find separate listings for the dunny and for the spittoon.

No mention of relevant background such as the Aboriginal history and the story of diamond mining. The Get-in info was scrappy, while Get-around diverges onto other topics. The infobox merited separating into agri rules in main text, and an expanded cane toad background story.

Soft info like a police blind-eye to street drinking and off-the-books labour can only stand if there is evidence they persist. Otherwise they’re just personal reminiscences not guidance to future travellers.

The page lacked good images. The first pic is not bad, but we have better.

Style is a personal taste but IMO on a travel page it should be snappy like good journalism, with no wasted words. Engage the readers and keep ‘em hooked. Clear statements are also easier to verify, thus update.

When this page was developed, it may have been a “star” among the poor other pages for WA, but those pages have come on leaps and bounds, and Kununurra is now lagging behind the field. I do not propose de-starring but it is unhealthy if star status is taken to mean “hands-off”, and it becomes a museum piece like a fly trapped in amber. Grahamsands (talk) 11:13, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't call the shots here, but if you want to do so, you need to propose change to policy as this affects more than just this page. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 12:09, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I am not changing policy, I am invoking it: Star pages should be fixed or improved as need be. But you twice rolled me back, not because they were bad edits, but because I fixed and improved without prior blessing. I recall when I updated another star page, you protested that such a page should not be overhauled, though in that example the edits stood. It now needs to be clarified whether others hold that view, which is nowhere stated in policy.

It is well understood that some edits should be proposed in advance: obvious examples are changing the banner pic, radically changing the scope of a page, and redirecting / deletion. This convention applies to all pages regardless of their status, and there is nothing special applicable to stars.

Those aside, the principle of “plunge forward” is to edit first, challenge / rectify later. This is all part of the routine editing process applicable to all pages, and again there is no difference for stars. If a challenge arises, both sides should then set out their reasoning. IMO it is not a valid reason to say the former content must be preserved because the page is a star, as if it was unalloyed perfection that cannot be improved. Grahamsands (talk) 12:22, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I did not rollback your edits. Please don't falsely accuse me of something I didn't do. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 12:39, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Please refresh your memory from the page history, which documents your two rollbacks. Several of my edits do indeed stand for the time being, but since your sole rationale was against changing a star page, and given your earlier protest, I have to infer that you seek status quo ante on all of them. Grahamsands (talk) 17:31, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

No response for a week, so there is no challenge to the principle that star pages enjoy no special protection beyond those of other pages. You are at liberty to propose a change in policy, but I for one would argue against. We should be encouraging edits not raising barriers, and too many “stars” are mediocre pages that need editing a-plenty.

I am unsure which edits remain contentious, let’s take them one at a time. The infobox “What not to pack” had two topics. One was about agriculture rules. This is important, travellers could get into real bother thru ignorance of it, so it deserves to be prominent in main text. An infobox is more suited to background and is literally and figuratively to the side of the main content.

The cane toad story is such background, and the new infobox expands it – it’s an interesting story that affects all of tropical Australia. That done, the content of “what not to pack” has been covered by other means, and its infobox is therefore redundant. Grahamsands (talk) 15:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Okay, no challenge to that, so on we go. I restored my version of the intro to Eat to bring out the point that fresh fruit & veg is boom to bust. In season there's a glut, then it's all gone, and stuff has to be trucked from afar. Grahamsands (talk) 07:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)