Template talk:Disambiguation skeleton

Purpose

This template was created as an outline for disambiguation pages that could be linked from MediaWiki:Newarticletext. -- (WT-en) Ryan 17:31, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

Shouldn't it figure on the Article templates page too? - (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 15:31, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

vfd discussion

• Nevermind. keep. = -- (WT-en) Sapphire 16:11, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
• Speedy keep. This template is an option when creating a new article, and is included in MediaWiki:Newarticletext. -- (WT-en) Ryan 16:16, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

Keep. It was created for use on Mediawiki:Newarticletext. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 16:19, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

Template:Disambiguation

Moved from User talk:Wrh2

This article is a disambiguation page. If you arrived here by following a link from another page you can help by correcting it, so that it points to the appropriate disambiguated page.

That's what you get when you add Template:Disambiguation to an article. You can't change it to anything else without removing the template; the edit links direct you to editing the template rather than the article. That kinda defeats the purpose of including it in MediaWiki at all. This is what you should get:

This article is a disambiguation page. If you arrived here by following a link from another page you can help by correcting it, so that it points to the appropriate disambiguated page.

That is why the template is broken. Template:Disambiguation needs to serve the same function Template:Disamb does. MediaWiki, ShmediaWiki. Purplebackpack89 22:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The template works fine when creating a new article - the "Disambiguation" link pre-populates the edit box with the skeleton text for a new disambiguation page. I'm not entirely sure I understand what is "broken" in this instance, so any further clarification would be appreciated. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

a) If you paste the template into an article, you can't replace any words in the skeleton text without deleting the template entirely

b) Even if you could, Template:Disambiguation should give you the same thing as Template:Disamb, much in the same way it is done on most other projects, and the skeleton text (which really isn't needed anywhere in template-space, you can just copy it from Wikivoyage:Disambiguation) should be in a different article. The primary purpose of whatever's at this title should be to provide people with the disambiguation footer, not a skeleton text that can't be changed.

In short, completely broken. Purplebackpack89 23:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This template has been used for years when creating new disambiguation pages, so if I'm understanding correctly I think by "completely broken" you actually mean mis-named? If we simply renamed this template "disambiguation skeleton" would that resolve the issue? -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

That and redirecting this name to Template:Disamb... Purplebackpack89 23:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Please take a step back and try to listen to what we're telling you. If you go to start a new page, you will see above the edit window a horizontal list of article templates, including City, Region... and Disambiguation. If you click "Disambiguation", the code will fill the edit window with the contents of this template. You can then edit the placeholder text. That is the functionality which you broke with your edit. (This template may also be used to insert the boilerplate into a new page by using {{subst:Disambiguation}}, though of course that requires two edits to the page.) This template should never be transcluded, for the reasons you point out, but that's okay because that's not what it's for. LtPowers (talk) 01:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

The point that users of other Wikipedia sites will expect "Template:Disambiguation" to be the notice for a disambiguation page (see w:Template:Disambiguation), and the fact that renaming this template to "Template:Disambiguation template" to reflect that it is for creating a disambiguation page is a simple task, is compelling enough that I think we should do a rename. Is there any objection? -- Ryan • (talk) • 06:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

"Template:Disambiguation template" is kinda redundant, don't you think? And none of the other fill-in templates (e.g., Template:Region) are named that way. LtPowers (talk) 13:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

...Because none of the other templates have another template with the same title and a well-defined usage on other projects... The point is most users would expect to get what's at {{Disamb}} when they type in {{Disambiguation}}. Why does it matter what the MediaWiki template is titled, if, by your own admission, people press a button to get its contents rather than type its title in the article text? Purplebackpack89 14:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

• ahem* "(This template may also be used to insert the boilerplate into a new page by using {{subst:Disambiguation}}, though of course that requires two edits to the page.)" And even if we do decide to change its name, the way you went about this was completely and utterly wrong, as it broke existing functionality, and you even re-imposed your broken "solution" after I tried to correct it. LtPowers (talk) 20:04, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps {{disambiguation}} should give a list of all the templates named "disambiguation", becoming itself a disambiguation page and the ultimate self-referential post. K7L (talk) 16:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Glad you came along :-)

We really do need a new name for article templates. Overloading the word is bound to lead to continual confusion. --Inas (talk) 03:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Any objection to "Template:Type skeleton"? So "Template:Disambiguation skeleton", "Template:Smallcity skeleton", etc? That avoids the overload and addresses the concerns previously raised about duplication if we used "Template:Type template" ("Template:Smallcity template"). -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm happy with skeleton (assuming someone can't come up with a better word). --Inas (talk) 05:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

In the interest of not dragging this discussion out any longer I've plunged forward and moved the templates and updated MediaWiki:Newarticletext. -- Ryan • (talk) • 05:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it makes them harder to remember. It was much easier to just type {{Region}} when creating a new article. LtPowers (talk) 16:10, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

That will still work (for now) since Template:Region is a redirect, but does anyone still do that? I always just click on the "Region" shortcut link on the edit screen when creating a new article. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

If someone has created an article without a template, I'll use {{subst:region}} and save, and go back and allocate the text to the right bits. That said, the template naming overlap is terrible. cityguide and guidecity have to be runners up in this mess. Template:disambiguation should be the mediawiki template for a disambiguation page. --Inas (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Why? Anybody who's dealt with disambiguations at any other project would expect Template:Disambiguation to give you what it'll give you right now (i.e. Template:Disamb)

That's what I said. --Inas (talk) 02:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

"Any other project"? You mean except Wikitravel, which strikes me as the most relevant one here. LtPowers (talk) 01:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)