User talk:Jpatokal/2005

Active discussions


I think you have a typo at Talk:Disneyworld. You wrote "frankly, Hypatia, I think you owe Speedway an apology". I don't see any evidence anywhere that Hypatia made such a comment. You probably either mean me or Huttite. -- (WT-en) Colin 15:49, 1 Jan 2005 (EST)


Hello. You recently changed the article name Fuerth into Furth referring to the Wikivoyage naming standards. Unfortunately I could not find the rule that German umlauts should be replaced by a, o, u anywhere on Wikivoyage. The standard transcription is ae, oe, ue. Using a, o, u can easily lead to misunderstandings. Furth for example is the German name of a town (and tourist destination) in the Bavarian Forest. Zurich is, in my eyes, an exception, since Zurich is the usual English name for Zuerich. (Try typing Zurich into Google, you will get hundreds of refernces to Zuerich. If you type Furth you will get references to Furth, but not to Fuerth). So my question: Is this really a policy? Where is it documented? (WT-en) Miknon 16:01, 1 Jan 2005 (EST)

Owing apologiesEdit

I see you wrote on Talk:Disneyworld:

frankly, Hypatia, I think you owe Speedway an apology for accusations of copyvio without pointing out where it's taken from

I have never edited Disneyworld. I'm fairly certain you meant to address that comment to Huttite, despite repeatedly using my username in the relevant paragraph. (WT-en) Hypatia 23:23, 1 Jan 2005 (EST)

Tunis, Bardo MuseumEdit

I edited your entry to add more info (I was moving it from somewhere I had misplaced it). I wasn't sure I interpreted your content correctly relating to "in the Ottomann palace" since this could be directions or, as I eventually decided, the building the museum occupied. Take a look and correct if necessary. --(WT-en) Richard 2005 Jan 17

Are you calling me a muppet?Edit

See Talk:Europe. That would be a bit rude, unless of course I get to be Animal. Or the Swedish Chef. (WT-en) Professorbiscuit 19:39, 19 Jan 2005 (EST)


If you have issues with my "bowlderization" in which I tried to keep what was helpful (including the sightseeing aspect of the commercial sex trade per previous discussion) I'd honestly like to hear the criticism. Thanks. -- (WT-en) Colin


But I can rewrite the stuff I nicked from Pedia, right? Cos it doesnt belong in Pedia neither. Wonderfool


Hey, Jpatokal, thanks for your correction on the Bhutan article. My source of information for quoting 66 years as the average life expectancy in Bhutan was Bhutanese friends. Personally, I knew that life expectancy was in the low to mid-fifties about a decade ago, but that it had risen substantially since. So, I had no reason to doubt them. Anyway, as you drew the matter to question, I checked other sources (more reliable than friends!), and found the figure quoted by Globalis (, Human Development Report ( and the WHO all to be at 62.5 years at birth. If you feel this figure is correct, then maybe you could change it to that. I'll leave it to your judgement.

Incidentaly, the Bhutan situation is not as simple as either the perpetrators of the Shambhala myth nor its detractors may believe. The population of the country is only 750,000, so if there is an influx of a few hundred thousand outsiders, the country is in danger of going the way of neighbor Sikkim. Hence, the emphasis on Bhutanization. This, of course, is grossly unfair to those who, through no fault of their own, are not pure Bhutanese at bith. However, it is definitely not a dictatorship with people climbing over the walls trying to get out. Over the years, I have had occasion to spend much time with Bhutanese people and consider many to be among my closest friends. From these encounters, I can honestly say that they genuinely love their royal family and have great feelings of pride and affection for their country. Many who have emigrated have returned, and those that have not often cite lack of work opportunity, not supression as the reason. Likewise, the citizens freely criticize the government with no repurcussions. I'm inclined to let the Bhutanese themselves or long term residents edit the 'understand' section of the Bhutan article. Seen through the eyes or outsiders accustomed to a different system and set of values, we cannot hope to understand the complexities of a country like Bhutan. What do you think?


First of all you need to read things before you click the save button. Second, i don't give a shit

User:(WT-en) Jpatokal/Sandbox

Expo 2005Edit

You lucky duck! Have a good time and make sure to keep us updated. --(WT-en) Evan 16:16, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Glasgow's Homosexual SexEdit

Can I ask why you felt it necessary for a travel document to include information on how to get laid? Rather than saying "casual sex" why not say something like "great place to meet people". The location info for the bathhouses could still be there, but in a more civilized manner. (WT-en) Trapper 13:05, 30 Apr 2005 (EDT)


Jakopal, Do you think Budapest is ready to be linked from the Main Page yet? (see Talk:Main_Page#No_Central_European_Cities_linked). (WT-en) DanielC 16:14, 20 May 2005 (EDT)


Shouldn't the entry for Yebisu Garden Place Tokyo/Ebisu be formatted as an attraction listing? If so, then it would use isolated [1] syntax. Or am I missing some context or something? -- (WT-en) Colin 15:44, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Thanks, that makes lots more sense. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:53, 7 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Japanese go-betweenEdit

So, if you become the go-between for ja:, can we actually expect go-between reports and some kind of activity monitoring? You don't seem to support these ideas, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you should fill that job. --(WT-en) Evan 08:57, 8 Jun 2005 (EDT)


Just wanted to say thanks for the admin nomination, for nominating the Falklands for DOM, and for all of the help since I found this site back in February. Also, the Singapore article has been really useful as a guide to how to write a good article. I'd drop one of (WT-en) Evan's barn stars in here, but virtual stickers have never really been my sort of thing so I'll leave that for someone else to do ;) -- (WT-en) Wrh2 23:42, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)


We're live. Check it out! --(WT-en) Evan 14:05, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Store -> Department StoreEdit

Hi, sorry for reverting your change without a better commit message, I had originally written something like "the distinction between a store and a departement store seems pretty big to me, sorry Jani" for the commit message, but then I noticed I hadn't changed it the way I wanted too, and just wrote "... oops, try again". -- (WT-en) Mark 06:13, 30 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Admin nominationEdit

I've added an nomination for User:(WT-en) Pjamescowie to become an admin. Please stop by and give your opinion. --(WT-en) Evan 19:46, 2 Jul 2005 (EDT)

where shall I put it?Edit

Hi Jpatokal, you seem to be quite involved with wikivoyage, so maybe you can help me out: I have some ideas for general aspects, and I want to discuss something like those timestamps I've been adding, as you've noticed and already commented on. Just where is the place to do it?

Some of the topics I'd like to discuss:

Things that would make wikivoyage unique amongst guidebooks:
  • The timestamp-feature: Never again try to find a guesthouse that ceased to exist long ago.
  • A category-rating of each destination: Do not go to Las Vegas if you seek nature and silence.
  • A "book" concept, generating a downloadable file which could be sent to a books-on-demand-publisher (for the concept, check this: Thus wikivoyage could compete with any classical travelbook-publisher.
  • Adding to the before mentioned, a collection of covers with recognizable wikivoyage-features.

So can you tell me where to discuss propositions like this? I'll explain it there more detailed, so you can understand the rationales.

Thanks for your help,

--(WT-en) Ront 03:36, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

N.B.: Unfortunately I'm not really acquainted with the romanization of Lao, so I won't be of help in this... I just used the most frequently used spelling.

Ront, you should bring up general points in the Project:Travellers' pub. General questions about where you should put things are often answered in Project:Where you can stick it. For adding to the templates, Project:Article templates. For adding to the accommodation listings, Project:accommodation listings. For metadata, see Project:Metadata (not yet written). I'm pretty hot on books-on-demand; no page on that yet, though. --(WT-en) Evan 08:37, 6 Jul 2005 (EDT)


Thanks for the pictures of Yonaguni. We desperately need some for all wikipedias, it would be great if you could upload them to the commons or put a licence tag to the pictures here in wikivoyage and I copy them myself. -- (WT-en) Gorgo 04:59, 6 Jul 2005 (EDT)

See (WT-en) my user page. Everything I upload to Wikivoyage is by default dual-licensed as GFDL & CC by-sa 1.0. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:08, 6 Jul 2005 (EDT)
Thanks for the fast answer :) -> -- (WT-en) Gorgo 05:33, 6 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Maps of SaigonEdit

I finally uploaded the SVG versions of my maps, you can get them here: de:Bild:Saigon-Zentrum.svg, de:Bild:Saigon-Pham-Ngu-Lao.svg. (To get the actual SVG you have to follow the link in the chapter Bild-Versionen.) --(WT-en) Srml 08:10, 27 Jul 2005 (EDT)


Sorry for answering that late. I didn't visit WT for several months since I felt to keep some distance due to my WT overdosis last autumn. The "Landbot" is a big hack that probablily won't run anymore since the version upgrade of the MediaWiki software has caused some changes. Of course, you can get the sources, but it's very poorly commented and quite hard to figure out whan I had in mind when having written it. Yesterday, I have adapted my InterLangBot to the new MediaWiki version and saw that there are problems with japanese characters, althought western unicode charakters work fine. I fear, this would be the case for the Landbot, too. So I'm not sure at all if it is a big help for you.

The bot is written in perl. Actualy, I don't feel comfortable when publishing the code since it also might be used for vandalism. If you still should be interested in the bot(s), tell me a way how to e-mail you the sources. -- (WT-en) Hansm 10:14, 28 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the link to Pywikipediabot. Looks very interesting. I have download the repository, but I'm still messing with loging in via Something is going wrong and I'm trying to understand the code. -- (WT-en) Hansm 06:36, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

External link on Japan PageEdit

Hi Jpatokal,

Can you please explain why you removed the link I added to the train timetable? I'm sure I'm not the only person visiting the page who'd benefit from it. Cheers, Robert

The same link is already listed in the Get around section! (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:00, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Oops, so it does, thanks.


... just drawing your attention to a reply left on the Everest discussion page in response to your plans for the page...

Korean PhrasebookEdit

Hi Jpatokal,

Sure, I'll be working on Korean Phrasebook for the next few weeks. I'll provide romanizations, too.

Obsoleted Sentosa imageEdit

You nominated Image:Sentosa_Southernmost.JPG for deletion since it was obsoleted by Image:Sentosa TanjongBeach.JPG. The nominated image is still in use at Three days in Singapore. Do you want to upgrade that image too, or leave both images in for variety? -- (WT-en) Colin 16:26, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Classic Tokyo, Modern TokyoEdit

Hi jpatokal, I have my Tokyo day itinerary ready, if you want to take a look at it before I put the link in the Tokyo page... thanks

Classic Tokyo, Modern Tokyo

Thanks for adding the pictures! -- (WT-en) Jose 19:05, 15 Sep 2005 (EDT)
Hey is Suica accepted on the Rinkai line? If so I might change the article to reflect that? -- (WT-en) Jose 00:07, 17 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Image VFD IssueEdit

I think you're still in the midst of your magical mystery tour around the world, but when you get a chance can you take a look at Image:PhraPathumChedi Storm2.JPG and Image:388px-Phra Pathom Chedi.jpg? It's not clear to me what the final consensus was on the Project:Votes for deletion page, but either way as the photographer and also as the author of the Nakhon Pathom article you're in the best position to make a decision as to what stays and what goes. Thanks! -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:38, 11 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the additional note on the VFD page. -- (WT-en) Ryan 20:40, 11 Sep 2005 (EDT)

My site redesign attemptEdit

I've set up a demo site for the Wikivoyage skin I've been working on so that you can have a look, and let me know what you think. There are still some issues to work out. Maybe you'll spot some more that I don't already know about. ;) -- (WT-en) Mark 12:39, 23 Sep 2005 (EDT)

There's a list of known issues on Evan's talk page, to save you a bit of time rather than writing up the stuff I already know about. -- (WT-en) Mark 12:51, 23 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I forgot to mention before: I've been using Konqueror and Firefox for development, so it only really works right for those browsers. I can add fixes for IE once the design is nailed down. I'm planning to put in a little Javascript thing to allow you to choose from multiple styles as well, so it shouldn't necessarily be seen as a style that everybody will have to live with. -- (WT-en) Mark 08:40, 25 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Statscript for french WikivoyageEdit

Hi Jpatokal,

It's a good idea to have Statscript updating the french page. How can I help you? Do you need the translation of month? Thanks for your help! --(WT-en) Quirk 03:09, 30 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Glad to hear that you're safeEdit

So hey, I for one am really glad to hear that you're safe after your near-brush with history this weekend. How far were you from the bombings? There was one in Seminyak, no? -- (WT-en) Mark 07:47, 3 Oct 2005 (EDT)

I was actually in the same shopping mall when one of the bombs hit, if fortunately four floors away, and got evacuated in a bit of a hurry. If I hadn't found a funky T-shirt collection I would have been walking past the bomb site when it exploded — and I wouldn't have gone to Kuta at all if a monkey hadn't snatched my friend's glasses earlier in the day. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:18, 3 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Wow. I guess people are pretty freaked out there at the moment. What's the scene like? Have a lot of tourists/travellers left the island? Are people lying low? Have you been to any of the memorial events? -- (WT-en) Mark 08:31, 3 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I've left Bali already, we were just there for a weekend break. The scene was far less hysterical than you'd think from the news, it's a pretty big island after all (pop. 3.4 million, 5600 -- but there was a distinct surge of people out from the major tourist areas to quieter places like Seminyak, where we were staying. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:58, 3 Oct 2005 (EDT)


Why did you revert my image addition to Bombay? --(WT-en) Ravikiran 03:26, 6 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Wake-up callEdit

Hey, so, thanks for the wakeup call! I got it, and though I wasn't very timely in responding it was a big help. Feel free to use the number again any time. --(WT-en) Evan 13:49, 9 Oct 2005 (EDT)

"On Wheels"?Edit

Just noticed a move that you made on a couple of my New Mexico articles, that seem to have been renamed "(foo) On Wheels!" What goes on here? Have I missed a new category of topics? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 18:18, 1 Nov 2005 (EST)

(WT-en) Ryan filled me in on this. Thanks for the repair; I didn't detect the original vandalism, which occurred and then was fixed all during a time when I was offline. As I said to Ryan, all's weird that ends weird ... -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:47, 1 Nov 2005 (EST)

Admin nominationEdit

User:(WT-en) Elgaard and User:(WT-en) Ilkirk have been nominated to become admins. Please stop by and give your opinion. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:40, 4 Nov 2005 (EST)

How to start a new language version?Edit

I thought, you once have written an introduction on how to start a new laguage version, but I couldn't find it any more. Since there are so many new expeditions, I thought it was a good idea to share our experiences in Project:How to start a new language version. If your intro shows up again, we prpbably should merge them. -- (WT-en) Hansm 03:33, 18 Nov 2005 (EST)

wikipedia linksEdit

rmv a few wikipedia links

Just curious - why?

Wikivoyage aims to be standalone, see Project:Links to Wikipedia. Information about airports should be (and, for Subang and Seletar, already is) in the Singapore & Kuala Lumpur articles.
Thanks for the great work on Tioman and other articles — please consider creating an account to make it a little easier to communicate! (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:01, 21 Nov 2005 (EST)

external link formatEdit

rvt; links should go at the end of the info listing, see Wikivoyage:Manual of Style

Please reconsider this. Singapore sets a good precedent, and the reversion leaves the Pattaya page looking a mess, with a random mixture of link styles. If you could un-revert without delay, it would be much appreciated.

FWIW I've tried to find where the consensus on this was reached, but without success - can you provide a link?


Makes more sense to me to use this page rather than User talk:, hope you agree.

As editing pages so that they look worse is difficult to do, I'm sure that reading how the consensus was reached would be the most likely source of inspiration to continue - but I still can't find it.

Re the Singapore reversion - was the purpose of the original link format edits not clear from the supplied "Summary"? - likewise the clearly identified Hainan Island -> Hainan Island link edit which was also reverted?

To clarify - that page now has about 40 well matched "front" format links, and just 4 randomly placed "mid" format links. Of course the latter look completely out of place - hence another un-revert request (or if it's now too late to revert it, confirmation that it's OK to repeat the original edits).

Hoping simple logic and common sense can prevail here. Thanks.

No, this is not the right place, please get an account. If you want to change policy, discuss on Project:External links, not my talk page. Consensus for link listing formatting here and for inline text links here. Again, mid-format is standard, please convert the Pattaya page to use them. And sorry about the Hainan thing, I've added a redirect to fix it.
I hope this doesn't come off as sounding too anal... but unfortunately I am pretty anal about formatting :) (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:39, 27 Nov 2005 (EST)
I'm disappointed that you still regard the edits in question to be unhelpful and counter-productive, I find it difficult to believe that you seriously consider the previous versions of the pages concerned to have been better. Nevertheless thanks for your patience, and apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Mount BromoEdit

I'm intrigued by your fantastic photo of Mount Bromo. I have seen a very similar one in one of the volcanology texts I own (used to work in this field) -- but that one is subtly but definitely different from this one, for example the eruption column over the volcano in the distance (Semeru) looks different. One gets the impression (reinforced by what I know of the two volcanoes in question) that opportunities for shots like this should not be rare if you know where to go. But where is that? Might put directions in the Bromo article; shots like that are worth some traveling to get! -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 16:53, 4 Dec 2005 (EST)

Wanna play art critic? ;-)Edit

A small favor, suggested by Ryan. I've been putting up a bunch of photographs at my (WT-en) Santa Fe photo page, in anticipation of turning Santa Fe (New Mexico) into a DotM (he's nominated it). I'd like to add one or two more to the page but would value the opinions of you and a few other WT old hands as to which ones to include. (You're a professional camera toter, right?) Any suggestions/preferences? I can do a little more cropping. Feedback appreciated! -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 23:25, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

(Copied from User talk:(WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill/SFpix)

LOL ... kinda like me and music. I've actually been paid twice for that; the first time to perform, the second time not to.
Anyway, based on various inputs, I've moved Kateri (who will become the first American Indian woman to be a saint of the Catholic church, if they ever get around to canonizing her -- she's already been beatified) to the frontispiece of the article, while St. Francis Cathedral and the Portal are at appropriate places within it. I'll also take your advice on cropping the adobe shot when I get a few minutes, and replace it (it's currently part of the New Mexico page as you suggested). Thanks! -- (WT-en) Bill 18:34, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)


I've got a proposal for a bot to do the cleanup work on breadcrumb navigation here: Project:Script nominations#YggdrasilBot. Your comment welcome, please. --(WT-en) Evan 00:03, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)


Thanks for all the tedious work tonight. --(WT-en) Evan 00:48, 12 Dec 2005 (EST)


Hi there, could you tell me more about your Python code and how to use it? --(WT-en) Adestro 07:49, 19 Dec 2005 (EST)

Hitchhike wiki!Edit

Hi Jpakotal! I just noticed that you wrote most of Hitchhiking in Japan. Well, I just moved the Hitchhiker's Guide to Hitchhiking to Wikicities (as it was spammed to death) - it's now at I guess you might be interested in checking it out! And, my little question, can I copy your work on Wikivoyage about hitchhiking over there? :) (WT-en) Guaka 09:08, 20 Dec 2005 (EST)

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