Talk:Main Page

Latest comment: 23 days ago by SHB2000 in topic Page needs updating

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New banner December 2021

There seems you be some support for choosing a new Covid-19 banner. I think that DaGizza's point about shifting the message from masking to vaccination makes a lot of sense. Here are some ideas (banner proportions to be adjusted):

Banner A (Current banner: New York Public Library Lions)

Banner B (Injection orange shirt)

Banner C (Vaccination centre Ipswich)

Banner D (Vaccination centre Delhi)

Banner E (Vaccination centre Gostiny Dvor)

Banner F (Injection green shirt)

Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I oppose any banner directly depicting an injection – these images can be distressing for some viewers and even discourage them from getting vaccinated. I like banner A better than any of the alternatives, honestly. Banner E is my second favorite. —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:52, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A, E, C. I would rather we kept the existing banner. It is very important that we don't have an image which discourages people from getting vaccinated. I don't think any of the new images really give a positive image, and I didn't see any in the commons category which I prefer. Governments have spent large sums on carefully designed public messaging on vaccination, and I don't think we should try. AlasdairW (talk) 21:32, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Focusing on the travel component of COVID-19, masks are more travel relevant than vaccines, which people normally receive near home. I would keep the current banner but a picture of a vaccination center is OK. A vaccine pass at an airport could work. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 02:36, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Banners C or E for me. I'm tired of seeing A all the time so hence why I even proposed we change that banner back in October. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:50, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New COVID banner?

Again, this time almost a year from the last change. My preference is a vaccination center or a vaccine passport. HighwayTyper (talk) 19:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I proposed two new banners above that I will propose again: Ground Zero (talk) 00:30, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Banner A (Current banner: New York Public Library Lions)

Banner C (Vaccination centre Ipswich)

Banner D (Vaccination centre Delhi)

We can switch to Banner C if you like. Banner D is not as good because it's washed out. In addition, it's good to see people wearing masks as well as waiting to get vaccinated. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:53, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Funnily enough, I'm in Ipswich, Qld as I write this message (where banner C was taken), but I like C as I just can't stand that comma that shouldn't be there in banner D for some reason. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:24, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Banner C looks good.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Banner C is the best as it most accurately depicts people's interaction with COVID-related travel concerns at the moment. Outside China, which is a case of its own, concerns over "paperwork" phone applications like vaccine passes is the main concern while traveling. Experience from other people I know, as I still haven't traveled internationally since 2020, is that their greatest concern is knowing how to use the vaccine pass or NHS - depending on the country - applications at checkpoints. It's as though this has become another attribute of airport travel, in addition to security and luggage, and COVID may overtime (if vaccine passes remain in place) become an air travel concern like any other.
Here in Central Florida, there is a large difference between the level of concern people have when travelling, vs. when not travelling. Probably 70-80% of travelers at airports are wearing masks vs. about 2-5% of those everywhere else. So a picture showing people wearing masks at a vaccine pass checkpoint while travelling is a widely accurate portrayal of concern among the general population. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 12:27, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If there are no objections in the next couple of days, I will make the switch to Banner C. Ground Zero (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is it time to drop the COVID-19 banner?

The infection rate is declining on all continents, and fewer and fewer countries have restrictions due to the virus. Dropping the banner from the main page might be too early, but sooner or later, it will no be the dominant issue for international travel. Which measure should we use to decrease exposure of Covid information? Reported cases worldwide? Death rate? Number of countries with restrictions? /Yvwv (talk) 12:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see that I never made the banner change. I'll do that tomorrow if there is no objection.
On the question of dropping the banner, I support doing so. I would suggest changing the "Bottom box" to replace "Message to travellers on COVID-19" by a link to the COVID-19 pandemic page as a way of keeping that information linked from the Main Page. Ground Zero (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It could look like this: Talk:Main Page/Alternative Main Page. Ground Zero (talk) 12:39, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like your proposed version better. I know I'll spark some controversy by saying this, but Covid is really not the most important issue anymore – certainly not anymore to merit a big banner that grabs one's attention when there are other issues of greater importance today (and I'm saying this having contracted The Virus twice). I know China and a few other countries still have overly harsh restrictions, but these can be handled on individual country pages. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:49, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm ambivlalent. Most of the world is opening up, but China, Taiwan and Japan are still closed to independent visitors. I have heard news though that China is reopening for international students (with the necessary quarantine of course) The dog2 (talk) 16:23, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like the idea of reducing its prominence. I love the question of what metrics to consider for removing it.
My suggestion is that we pick a total number of cases worldwide, by daily average. Past troughs in the New York Times database were around 350K to 400K. Maybe we should say under 300K for two weeks? I think that the number of cases will matter more to travelers than the death rate, especially since the deaths have shifted back to people who don't necessarily travel very much (e.g., people who are seriously ill with something else).
Another metric would be: Does any large country require anything disruptive for international travelers (like mandatory quarantines of unvaccinated travelers, not just proof of vaccination or a negative test, which I think people are accustomed to by now)? If not, then we don't need to have a large banner on the page.
Third, I think it's worth considering the amount of apparent demand, according to page views. You can see the page view counts here. They've been running just above 1200 page views per month for a few months. They've only been this low once (last December), and they're about half the peak level. The more general links (e.g., Stay healthy, Previous Featured travel topics, etc.) all seem to track pretty evenly, although the COVID-related link to Stay healthy has trended up recently, compared to the others. I think this level of engagement suggests keeping the link somewhere on the page, but the reduced demand (i.e., half what it used to be) suggests making it less prominent. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:30, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
China still has a zero COVID policy, so yes, they can still lock down the entire province at short notice if they detect any cases. The dog2 (talk) 16:33, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Chengdu has just locked down 21 million people. That argues for maintaining the prominence of COVID-19 information on the China, Taiwan and Japan articles, not for maintaining it on the main page. Ground Zero (talk) 17:16, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The alternative main page looks good, but I think it is too soon to make the change. There are still many people dying of COVID, and not all of them are obviously ill with something else. For example, a former high school classmate of mine died unexpectedly in his sleep at the age of 56 last month. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:00, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think we should start by changing the blurb. "Should you cancel trips?" are words from 2020, not 2022. Now it is more about balancing the risk and avoiding trip disruption - "Plan your trip carefully". Personally I have been considering booking a long haul trip in December, but am probably going to postpone it as there is still a high chance of disruption (and a cheap flight via China isn't an option). AlasdairW (talk) 20:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree on the blurb. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with WhatamIdoing and AlasdairW's comments. I support making COVID less prominent but not removing it entirely for now. I also agree with changing the blurb and messaging. If a more dangerous variant comes along or if the northern hemisphere winter sees an upsurge in hospitalisations and deaths (with rules and restrictions reintroduced across many countries), we can reinstate the banner and original messaging. Gizza (roam) 00:48, 2 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with giving it less prominence. The average person is no longer concerned about covid as a life-threatening illness but rather wants to check what regulations, restrictions, requirements, and annoyances they may face when traveling. I don't think number counts really matter anymore either. The banner should only be brought back if a significant number of countries (or if countries that are significant destinations in the Anglosphere) reintroduce border closings or major restrictions. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I proposed this approach Talk:Main Page/Alternative Main Page to meet the aim of "making it less prominent by not removing it". This removes the banner, and puts the link to COVID-19 information prominently in the "Bottom Box". @DaGizza, ChubbyWimbus: is this what you are looking for?

In the interim, I will replace the banner with the new one, and change the wording to AlasdairW 's proposal. Ground Zero (talk) 14:28, 2 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That sounds good to me. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:43, 2 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, looks good. Gizza (roam) 03:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I support this change too. —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:35, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, it looks good. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 07:18, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Which new banner is replacing the existing one now? Are we doing anything other than changing the blurb at this point? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Per the previous discussion, I replaced the banner with Banner C above, and updated the blurb with AlasdairW's wording. As far as dropping the banner and putting the link in the Bottom Box, I would propose to do that after the discussion has been running for a week if there is still a consensus to do so at tat point. Ground Zero (talk) 15:06, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There won't be a banner. It will just be a clickable link in the blue box with "Discover". See the link thatGround Zero posted. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 08:12, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As I said, I think that's premature, but I've obviously been outvoted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Resolving this

This discussion has been running for two weeks. I think there is consensus for dropping the COVID-19 box as I have promised, and putting the link to COVID-19 information prominently in the Bottom Box. Any objections? Ground Zero (talk) 19:35, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, as there are still a lot of people getting sick, dying, and getting permanently damaged by this pandemic, and being sick or experiencing flight cancellations because of sick crews certainly affects travel. However, as I acknowledged above, I've been outvoted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:40, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I should have asked, "are there any objections to declaring a consensus?" Other contributors who haven't commented may also want to weigh in. Ground Zero (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As the banner was only changed 2 weeks ago, I would prefer that we wait a few more weeks before making the change. This will also let us see if there is an early October peak as happened in the last two years with students returning to their term-time accommodation. If things are broadly as they are now, changing at the same time as November DOTM or October TT would be fine. AlasdairW (talk) 22:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since widespread testing in high-income countries began in late 2020, there have been more than 380k cases worldwide. When we are below that figure, it can be time to remove the banner. /Yvwv (talk) 22:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Any figure on testing excludes loads of unreported home tests in the U.S. Figures on hospitalizations and deaths are likely to be more reliable. In the U.S., we're still seeing around 350 deaths a day, with a slight upward trend. Just taking the number the CDC gives as the average for new deaths per day, 357 x 365 = 130,305 deaths in the U.S. for the next year. And the fact that people consider that acceptable and requiring no action (no masks, no funding for new testing or vaccines, and a pretense that the pandemic is over) just makes me want to scream! Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:11, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We have a similar situation in Finland. There was a severe peak in the summer I didn't notice although I do follow the news (journalists seems to ignore such developments). The current policy may be reasonable: people are dying, but there is little we can do without choosing the Chinese path, and most people are better off forgetting about the pandemic than worrying about it, even if they might die – more people might die (or lose happy years) from staying at home. I am a bit bitter for some non-intrusive measures not being maintained, but it might be better this way.
Anyway, I support waiting some time, both not to remove the banner just after changing it (which would seem odd and impulsive) and to see what the development will be during the autumn.
LPfi (talk) 07:35, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

While Covid will rise and fall in different regions at different times, these statistics for worldwide cases and deaths show that the number of cases is down dramatically from the peak, and the number of daily deaths since April 2022 have been far lower than at anytime from Jan 2020 until March 2022. Ground Zero (talk) 11:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I support removing the banner and just having a link. The pandemic isn't having the dramatic health affects anymore and even the travel affects are greatly diminished. People in most countries are able to live normally. As I said above, the government restrictions are the only thing keeping covid from being behind us in terms of meaningful affects. Even Japan is preparing to open. There is less and less to even mention. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:11, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
According to the graphs daily confirmed new cases in May–August have been slightly more than in the peaks of 2020 and 2021 (and e.g. Finland does few tests). For Finland the daily deaths in August were more than ever in 2020 and 2021 (according to the country statistics of the linked pages). The situation in Finland may be odd, so I may be biased. However, from my perspective, waiting until late in the autumn to see the development seems sensible. –LPfi (talk) 17:04, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We simply disagree. If there is consensus to "wait until fall", I oppose using case numbers as the metric. Covid has never stopped having "waves", and a fall "wave" is anticipated already, so case numbers rising should be neither surprising nor alarming. Deaths (which can be compared against case numbers), travel barriers/requirements, and public interest/concern are much better metrics. I'd say 2 of those being significantly down should be a rather easy "banner to link" choice, but even 1 of them reducing significantly (if all else remains the same) may be reason enough given that it is still going to be accessible from the Main Page. I think we're already there, but of course not everyone agrees. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 02:49, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just don't think there's a reason to wait. Having the special banner made sense while covid was a new crisis, much was unclear and changed very quickly, and our article could help readers orient themselves in the new, unfamiliar travel reality. Now, while covid is still a concern, it is no longer a new concern; it has become baked into the background of our lives like other travel topics. —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:43, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's been a few weeks. What is the perspective on this issue currently? --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 13:44, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
[1] Globally, positive tests and deaths per day have flattened out for some weeks, neither raising nor declining. I cannot find any reliable list of countries by restriction status. One visible change is that the pandemic barely makes headlines anymore; at least not in Anglophone media. We should consider that the Covid article takes effort to keep updated; dropping it from the main page allows us to focus on other content. IMO it is time to remove the banner. /Yvwv (talk) 16:43, 10 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll agree, then. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 17:36, 10 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK. It is not a new threat and it's now some time since the banner change. I'd keep the link, though, as suggested above, and I think the COVID-19 article should stay updated (a monthly check won't take much energy from other work). We can purge it of some trivia that make it get out-of-date, but the article as such is still relevant. The prevalence is high in parts of the world (like here), and if you are in an area with low prevalence, you might not be prepared for that, especially if people at the destination seem relaxed about it. –LPfi (talk) 06:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The global death rate has risen slightly during October, but too little to be described as a wave. The news articles about the virus are nearly absent from English-speaking media. Are we waiting for something? /Yvwv (talk) 15:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe there is consensus to remove the COVID-19 box and put the link to COVID-19 information prominently in the Bottom Box. I will do so early next week. Ground Zero (talk) 08:02, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with removing it now. The effects of COVID will forever live; it's not going away anytime soon. Travellers today are much more likely to face some other issue than COVID while travelling. China might be an outlier, but the article will still be linked in the bottom box. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:10, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Let's go ahead this coming week, then. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:46, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tested positive again early this morning after my girlfriend was sick all last week, but to be fair, neither of us had to travel to get sick... Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:25, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Per discussion, done. Ground Zero (talk) 01:41, 2 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Have also removed the credits section (see Special:Diff/4553345). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:49, 2 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Quibble with wording ("articles...written by travellers like you")

Many of the edits to such articles were written by inhabitants of the cities, not travellers to them... AnonMoos (talk) 08:55, 19 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If anyone else ended up looking for where this blurb is printed: It's on the mobile version of the Main Page. That said, to me, the groups of "Travellers like you" and "Inhabitant of a certain city" are not mutually exclusive. I fail to see an issue here, but feel free to explain your point of view.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 20:56, 19 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
One could assume that most people reading this site could identify themselves with travellers, also if at home for the moment. –LPfi (talk) 21:25, 19 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is it time to drop the COVID-19 banner from the Main Page?

Swept in from the pub

Please join the discussion here. Ground Zero (talk) 12:41, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would also propose that we drop all article top COVID banners unless the country still has significant COVID restrictions (quarantine and/or mandatory testing) impacting vaccinated travellers in place. "No restrictions" boxes can go under Get in. Jpatokal (talk) 23:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That makes sense. Or perhaps in some other extreme situations beyond what's now happening in places like the U.S. (which though hardly safe is largely "normal" now except for those getting severely ill and dying). Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:10, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Per discussion above, done. Ground Zero (talk) 01:41, 2 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The WHO has declared that Covid no longer represents a global health emergency. Ground Zero (talk) 15:02, 5 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think it's time to remove all mention of COVID-19 from the main page. Interested readers can always find our COVID-19 pandemic article by searching for it. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:15, 5 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
+1 for removing all COVID mentions from the main page. As I said in earlier discussions, it's no longer the prime concern for most travellers anymore. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agreed. It's long overdue. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:16, 6 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support removing from Main Page.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:06, 6 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support per WHO declaration. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 21:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, take it off the main page. Then consider Talk:COVID-19_pandemic#Does_anyone_else_feel_this_article_is_outdated?. Pashley (talk) 01:02, 7 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Page needs updating

Please could somebody, who is able, update the DOTM banner as it is 2 September and we still have last month's one in place. Thanks AlasdairW (talk) 12:55, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@AlasdairW:   Done – sorry for slacking with featured articles for the last month or so. I've been much busier IRL and fell completely oblivious to featured articles :-(. Thanks for the reminder, though. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 13:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, I've updated them a couple of times as of lately, but I find it a bit tedious and am happy to see someone else having done it. --Ypsilon (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, sorry if I was being impatient. AlasdairW (talk) 17:02, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nah, you're all good – it had to be updated by someone, and 48 hours is about right. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:18, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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