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User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!

Welcome to my talk page! Feeling confused? Worried? Frustrated? Celebratory? Got an idea or just need a chat? Leave me a message below, and I'll reply as soon as I can. Or if you'd prefer to speak in private, feel free to send me an email.



ThunderingTyphoons!, the last time you were nominated for admin, 4 years ago, some Wikivoyagers felt like maybe you should spend more time as a user. You have, and have participated in many aspects of this site. Would you accept another nomination now? I'd be surprised if this one were controversial at all. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:58, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

TT isn't an admin? That's rediculous. He/she should definitely be an admin. Thanks for picking up this, Ikan. Ground Zero (talk) 11:13, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for both of your kind words. I have been historically reluctant to be an admin, but wouldn't mind accepting the responsibilities now. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:35, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Cool. I'll put up a nomination tomorrow if someone else doesn't beat me to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:10, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
The nom is up at Wikivoyage:Administrator nominations. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
You are now an admin. You have some additional tools, such as the ability to rollback a series of edits and the ability to block users from posting. If you'd like any advice about anything, feel free to post to the user talk page of any other admin. Congratulations, and thanks for being willing to help with these tasks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
You bet I'll be asking for advice over the next few months. Thanks a lot, Ikan. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:25, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Actually "rollback" is something you get as (whatever my status is); not only as an admin... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:47, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
I imagine you're a patroller. That's when I first got rollback rights. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:27, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, that. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:50, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Didn't know that you were nominated recently. I would've supported wholeheartedly. Anyway, congrats ThunderingTyphoons! Gizza (roam) 22:46, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Gizza :) I appreciate the gesture --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Euro City ExpressEdit

The train is treated as its own category (though in the same fare category as the ICE; and different from EC and IC) by Deutsche Bahn only. The rolling stock is Swiss and it obviously has intermediate stops in Germany and Switzerland, but it is the only daytime train that goes directly from Germany to Italy. I think it should not be subsumed into the ICE paragraph as it is visibly a different rolling stock with a different design. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:04, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for getting in touch. I was just about to flag this as a topic on the article's talk page, to stop it just being lost in the edit history and potentially disappearing unnoticed.
By all means reinstate it as a separate point, but it struck me that the original paragraph was not very informative (for the average traveller, as opposed to a railfan) for the amount of space it took up. At the very least it needs a link to the official place you buy tickets from. It would be better if there were also a "Cities served: x, y and z" sentence, in line with the other bullets in the same list, or anything that mentions the major intermediate stops. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:17, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Unfortunately information is more common to find in German than English, but DB has this. IIRC you can get tickets at and whatever the Italian website is... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:22, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Interesting choice to use Italian on the route map... So they don't have their own website? May as well use the German one unless there's better English-language content offered elsewhere. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
The Italian railways does have a website, I just checked, at you can get the ticket from Frankfurt to Milan (remember, one daily departure per direction only; it is almost Amtrakian) but there is no dedicated website for that specific train service. And given that it has only been introduced with the last schedule change, I am pretty sure they are monitoring pretty closely whether it is successful before either adding more departures or withdrawing service... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:29, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Probably just testing the waters, that's right. It's also a very specific route, not linking two capitals (although they are both the financial centres of their respective country) and it's quite a long way with only intermittent high-speed lines and (I guess) quite a bit of mountain slowness. Bear in mind that none of the Eurostar routes except to Brussels and Paris run more than once a day, and some only run once a week! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:06, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Double signatureEdit

This is an experiment. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:11, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

This is also an experiment. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:12, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

As is this. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


Considering the complete lack of information on how to actually attend the islands independently I don't see how that number should be removed.

Certainly it's possible to attend the islands without a professional tour guide because you can pay anyone any amount to take you anywhere, including probably you could pay enough for them to land on the island and presumably there's someone who would take millions for you to illegally kidnap a proboscis monkey.

But since there's no way to get a boat without randomly shouting down people and offering money, no method I discovered or is on the wiki page, it seems reasonable to have some method avaliable. Remove it once there's an alternative method.

I only added information that I would find useful when I read it, I also think your removal of the dates of the prices is dumb and I hate how out of date every Wikipage article is and with no indication of when the prices were found there's simply no way you can tell if you are being ripped off or of it has been twenty years since the article was updated. RMcD (talk) 03:15, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

@RMcD: You make a good argument. I'll reinsert Mukani's number in a way that doesn't sound like the article is touting for customers, and write that travellers could also ask any local with a boat to take them.
Wikivoyage listings have a 'last updated' marker, so for most prices it should be clear if they're current or not, but in this case the listing template hasn't been used.
Overall, my edit took out too much information, that I'll be happy to reinstate. I apologise if I've soured your view of Wikivoyage or irritated you in any way; that wasn't my intention. Feel free to add more info to the article, or any other destination you know about, but please take a quick look at WV:Tone first, so you know what style of writing to aim for. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:46, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Consider it   Done. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:55, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, yes I will do in future. I was obviously in the wrong to use the first person view. I also agree that I would not want to read a sales pitch so if it sounded like that you were right to edit it.

The last updated marker is usually not correlated with all of the prices (even brackets with a year around each price would be good) on the page often an update can just be a few sentences and I think most people don't even know to check the edit history, I didn't until I started trying to edit that article then I noticed your change. It's been a long time since I've edited wikis, and certainly the first time I have ever attempted it from my phone. My edit definitely wasn't proof read or anything more than a quick off the cuff decision since the article lacked the whole island

Don't worry about any souring someone needs to keep the standards of a sight in check. I appreciate your efforts


Thank you! Much obliged. Green Giant (talk) 19:16, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

No problem. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)



I did some work on Cornwall and I noticed that St. Michael's Mount does not have a page. However the very similar Mont Saint-Michel (basically the same thing but slightly larger and in France) does have an article. I don't rightly know if it ought to have an article or not.

It is a small island, with causeway (tidal) and boat ferries to it in summer, it is mostly a national trust property but there are some other buildings and gift shops by the harbour on the island. It is not designated as a village or anything, but is undoubted as one of the most well known places to see in Cornwall. See w:en:St Michael's Mount.

It is also home to billions of bilious blue blistering barnacles which cover the rocks around it :P

Some advice on this would be good.

Sir John Hawkins (talk) 13:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Not answered because user has been globally blocked. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Black DeathEdit

With regards to your edit on Europe, apparently for quite some time there was considerable debate as to whether Yersinia Pestis actually did cause the Black Death. There seems to be now a preponderance of opinions in favor of this explanation but I think using "Black Death" without going into biological details too much avoids this discussion which is really of no relevance in a travel guide. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Equally, just avoiding the discussion and keeping within historical consensus by explaining it as bubonic plague is an acceptable solution! But as you wish, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:44, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Also, 4 messages in one day. I feel popular :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Well it's really a minor point and I think it's fine either way. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:19, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Then we're of the same opinion.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:10, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

What did I do?Edit

I have only just logged into wikivoyage and I have an email from you, telling me not to disrupt wiki or something. I havent edited anything except my grandads wikipedia page?

Can you explain? Olliejdean (talk) 10:57, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Olliejdean: Click here to see your Wikivoyage edit history. My message was in response to that. If you're saying that wasn't you, then I echo User:Ground Zero's message on your user talk page, and urge you to change your password, as it looks like someone else has access to your account. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks 2Edit

Let me add my congratulations and thanks on your 10,000th edit, including, especially, the very important vandalism reversions. Cheers, Ground Zero (talk) 00:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much :-) Happy St David's Day, too. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:05, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Hapus! Ground Zero (talk) 01:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Diolch yn fawr. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:49, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Note on my talk at WikitravelEdit

Passing along the word, in case you didn't see:

While I'm not going to tell you what to do or not do, I am wondering how effective this tactic is. —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:30, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

it could just as well be someone claiming to be somebody who he or she isn't Hobbitschuster (talk) 07:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
What the hell? This is insane. I joined Wikivoyage after the fork, and have no stake in the dispute. The only time I've ever been on Wikitravel is to compare our articles' content / wording to theirs. I have never edited there, and I think my own editing record on WV should show that I'm not a troublemaker who likes to stir the pot. In fact, short of picking a Wikivoyager to impersonate at random, the only reason I can see for anyone at Wikitravel to know anything about me, to have access to my username or my Wikimedia account (???) is due to my nomination a few days ago to ban a user who was suspected of being a troll sent by the company who own WT to stir shit up here.
Justin, if you can be bothered, please inform "IBobi" (why is he blocked from editing Wikivoyage anyway?) that I have no interest in what goes on over at Wikitravel, that the person calling themselves 'TT' is not me, and that before he starts making veiled legal threats he'd better have some damn proof of identity. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:27, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
To be honest, the edit IBobi complained about sounds like Spendrup's m.o. Which would however at least open the possibility we might've unfairly blamed IB for a vandal who did not in fact take their pay. But I am not ruling anything out at this point in time... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:24, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter whether Sprendrups was sponsored by them or not. S was disrupting our site, so we blocked them, and now S, IBobi or somebody else has tried to play the two communities against one another with this rubbish. I'd say the best thing to do is carry on as normal; ignore WT, deal with vandals and troublemakers who come our way, and get on with building a decent community travel guide. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:42, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
No problem, 'phoon. Thanks —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:00, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Cheers, mate. I appreciate that :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Your S-Bahn questionEdit

Please have a look here Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:22, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Answered... with pith :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:37, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Is it how I can/should communicate with you?Edit

Hi there I got your message asking me to get back to you about the listings I've deleted. Is this how/where I should answer you? If not, please let me know where If yes, to answer your question, yes I deleted those entries because the places don't exist anymore. This morning I actually learned about the possibility to add a note about removals (through the tips for new contributors page), but both before and after your message I still can't understand where exactly I should do so. Could you please guide me? Thanks —The preceding comment was added by ExploreFeelGood (talkcontribs)

Hiya! Yes, you can contact any other user via their talk page in this way. You can also reply to messages on your own talk page, just by clicking the 'Edit' button at the top. The only other thing to remember to do is to sign your own posts on your own and other talk pages. You can do this by typing four tildes in a row, i.e. ~~~~. These turn into a signature and timestamp when you click 'Publish changes'.
To answer your other question about edit summaries:
  • If you're editing on desktop, scroll down past the main edit window. There is a little white box that says "Summary"; you can type up to 1000 characters in there, but most often people just leave a couple of words or a short sentence explaining what they've done in the edit.
  • If you're editing on mobile, after clicking 'Next' you get prompted by the question "How did you improve the page"; you can type your edit summary in the box below.
BTW, edit summaries aren't compulsory, and for minor edits I normally don't bother. It's just polite to let other editors know what you're doing when there's a bigger change to the article.
I hope all of this makes sense; please let me know if it doesn't or if you need any other help. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:18, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi again, thanks for the fast answer OK below I'm trying to sign my msg, let's see if I got it For the Summary I made a test right now, clicking on "Edit source" on budget restaurants, and in summary I see /* Budget*/ So, if I want to add a comment, I replace that by my message, or add it after it? And I should do the ~~~~ or it will automatically be signed? And yes it makes sense no worries ExploreFeelGood (talk) 12:25, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

The signature worked perfectly. Normally, you'd add the summary after /* Budget*/. You don't need to sign, as every edit is automatically linked to the person who makes them. See this for instance: Vientiane edit history. Happy editing, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:55, 28 March 2018 (UTC)


'Recently' (i.e 31/03/2018) I ran a search, about 2100 articles use recently:-

You've probably noticed I've tried to reword some UK articles more intelligently, but would appreciate some feedback. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:11, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Sure. Do you just want me to look over your edits? ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:03, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Yes please. Hope the search link is useful to. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
I've looked at every recently you removed, and not one of them was justified in being there. You're doing a good job. Happy Mars day :P --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:03, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

April foolEdit

ah, you spotted it. :-) --Traveler100 (talk) 18:00, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

You almost got me, though! I was on the verge of saying "move this to the policy discussion page, and by the way I'll be against it" when I realised. We would need a long team-building trip to recover from that argument! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:05, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Ten thousand thundering typhoons!Edit

Swept in from the pub

I've just made my 10,000th edit on Wikivoyage. Yay! On the downside, the edit in question was undoing vandalism to my own userpage. Bloody typical...

Very quickly, I just want to thank everyone who makes Wikivoyage an awesome place to be. I certainly wouldn't have got even to my 1000th edit if it weren't for the wonderful community of talented, kind and good-humoured editors we have here. Thanks everyone, u iz da best! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Good job, Frank! 2600:387:8:9:0:0:0:90 19:22, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Congratulations. I agree with you that the community here is what makes Wikivoyage an awesome place to be. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
Congratulations, and here's to the next 10,000! -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations from my part, too! Very glad to have you aboard! Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey, congrats TT! ϒpsilon (talk) 19:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
It's unanymous. Mega cheers! Ibaman (talk) 19:55, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Congrats! Here is how to reach 15000 in a few months: :-) Syced (talk) 08:24, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Un tacos vs. los tacosEdit

Hey, Thanks for your improvements to my little tacos screed. There's one little thing though: the point of mentioning that the people who sell them use it as a singular word is meant to give you an idea of how different it is from actual (plural) tacos. If you can think of a nice way to get that across great! Otherwise maybe it's best just to remove it. -- Mark (talk) 19:06, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the guy who invented it really didn't understand that it's plural in Spanish -- Mark (talk) 19:07, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
We can put the Spanish back in if you want. For me, I just wanted to keep it simple for what we have to assume is a largely monolingual English readership. But if you think the point is clearer how it was, by all means reinstate it. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:39, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Recreated articlesEdit

From Libertarianmoderate-

Yes, I will expand the empty articles over the next few weeks. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. —The preceding comment was added by Libertarianmoderate (talkcontribs)

@Libertarianmoderate: Thanks for your reply! I'll look forward to seeing your work in the near future.

By the way, can you please remember to sign your talk page messages? This helps us to identify each other. In this day and age, there should really be some automatic signature function, but unfortunately there isn't and it's a pain. You can sign either by typing four tildes in a row ~~~~ (on mobile and desktop) or by clicking on the 'signature and timestamp' button at the top left of the edit window (desktop only).

Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:16, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Region map changesEdit

From Libertarianmoderate, Libertarianmoderate

I was wondering if I could get your help on something. Iraq and Syria have undergone massive territorial changes in recent years that have made our region maps of them outdated. For Syria, I believe that we need to divide up the Syrian Desert region into two new zones: Syrian Kurdistan/Rojava, and the Southeastern Desert, as the experience for any suicidally-brave travelers in the two areas would be wildly different, as one is under a Kurdish-dominated democracy and the other is increasingly under the control of the Assad Regime.

For Iraq, similar changes need to be made. I think that the Iraqi Desert region should include Ramadi, as it is the capital of Al-Anbar Governorate. When it comes to Iraqi Kurdistan, Kirkuk is no longer under Kurdish control, so it should not be included in the Iraqi Kurdistan region on the map.

As for the name "Al-Jazira", I believe it does not accurately describe the area. In antiquity, the area was part of Assyria, a name more people would easily recognize than "Al-Jazira". I think that part should be renamed to "Assyria," as most historical sites there (such as Nineveh in Mosul) are Assyrian.

Southern Iraq, referred to as "Lower Mesopotamia" by the region map, actually represents the nerve center of historical Mesopotamian civilizations, not just a "lower" part. For this reason, I believe it should be renamed to simply "Mesopotamia."

Western Sahara also needs a region map, given that it's divided in two (also, that situation is unlikely to change in the near future). The east is controlled by the Polisario Front, so we should refer to it as the Sahrawi Arab Dem. Republic, and the West as "Moroccan Western Sahara"

Yemen, on the other hand, is far more complicated than Iraq and Syria. While a redrawing is warranted, it would be impractical to attempt now.

What do you think about this? Do you know who originally made those maps, so I can ask them to redraw them?

Also, I did the "nowiki" thing you said to do. Did that add the info you wanted?

Hi again, User:Libertarianmoderate. Firstly, the "nowiki" is a just a bit of HTML to show you what four tildes in a row looks like; if I typed them without using nowiki, they would automatically turn into my signature, so the demonstration wouldn't have worked. The nowiki template is a handy tag that stops wikicode being generated. To sign your name, all you need to is type four tildes (this is a tilde! --> ~ <-- it shares the hash # key on my laptop) in a row at the end of your message; if you type the nowiki, then your signature won't appear! Does this make sense?
Secondly, yes I do know who created those maps. If you go to Iraqi regions map and Map of Syria, and scroll down the page you can see the authors credited in the summary. This is the same for all maps and images on Wikivoyage, and indeed on every Wikimedia site like Wikipedia. The author(s) will always be credited, along with information about the image's publication date, copyright status etc.
Out of the maps' creators, only User:Globe-trotter is still active on Wikivoyage, so as a first port of call you might want to drop them a message. Alternatively, you could ask one (or each, one by one!) of the members of the Map Expedition. One of them should be able to help you.
Failing all that, you can't go wrong with posting in the Travellers' pub for help.
I'm afraid I don't have the graphics skills to work with maps, but I do know that the reason they're out of date is deliberate; when the Syrian war and the ISIS 'Caliphate' came about a few years ago, we decided it would be pointless to keep updating articles about Syria, Iraq, southern Kurdistan etc for the duration and focus our efforts on places travellers could visit. For the same reason, it would be futile to work on Yemen just now. However, now the war in the Levant is winding down in many areas, it is a good thing to have you and other users who know the region (User:Sarbast.T.Hameed springs to mind) coming here and trying to drag our content into 2018. Honestly, we're excited to see what you guys can do!
The actual renaming of regions is a different process than just editing the map, it also involves changing the names of articles. You will have to start a discussion on relevant talk pages (to keep it simple I suggest Talk:Iraq and Talk:Syria), explain why you think we need to change the region names, and see if the editing community agrees or at least reaches a consensus one way or the other.
I know this can be a lot to take in, but if you need any help with any of this, or if I haven't adequately explained something, just ask. I and any of the other administrators (find a list of us here) are on hand, more or less 24/7. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Page bannersEdit

Would you mind adding the default page banner to the pages I made? I still can't seem to figure it out... Libertarianmoderate (talk) 17:45, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

I've added the banner to Rojava (and completed the WV:Region article template), which is the new only article you have created. Redirects don't need banners. For future reference, all you need to do is put {{pagebanner}} at the top of the article. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:18, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk pageEdit

Hi. It might be a good idea to semi-protect my talk page. I'm not active here and it only attract vandals. -- Tegel (talk) 18:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Will do! Sorry for all the hassle caused by this guy. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

The perfect wordEdit


Thank you for that. Ground Zero (talk) 05:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I got my dictionary out specially. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:56, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
Where? And which meaning? The "go places to make them slave states of the US" sense or the "hold a long speech" sense? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:47, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
The second one. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:58, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I've never heard of the first definition you're giving. In a traditional filibuster, the long speeches used to block all other action in the U.S. Senate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
This sorry excuse for a human being would be the best example of the first definition... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

My post-block editsEdit

Well, it's good to be back. And I have some great ideas for new articles, in addition to the articles I plan to work on expanding.

- Ground Zero/WTC, New York City - Armenian genocide remembrance - Ruins of Ctesiphon - French Empire (historical travel) - Incan Empire (historical travel)

Basically, if I create new articles in the near future, I'm mostly going to be focusing on historical travel.

Libertarianmoderate (talk) 16:23, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back! All of those sound great, apart from the WTC one. We don't have articles for individual attractions with the exception of very large, significant and self-contained attractions like the various Disney parks, and Machu Picchu. Take a look at What is an article? for more details on this. Anything you have to write on 9/11 can be included in whatever district article of NYC is the right location. Other than that, I look forward to seeing your contributions. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:53, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Ground Zero isn't just one attraction. It's a district in and of itself, with skyscrapers, museums, malls, parks, etc. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 18:36, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

As a New Yorker, I doubt it merits an article by itself. Add whatever you think needs to be added to the listing at Manhattan/Financial District. If it really gets too long, we can reconsider. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, or you could make your case for a new district at Talk:New York City. Either method is reasonable and open to you. But creating such an article without consensus would only get you reverted and blocked again. That's the reality of a collaborative project like Wikivoyage. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
You can always create it in Userspace, like so: User:YourUsername/Example. I have done this a few times. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Also, for some reason, the pagebanners haven't been showing up for me recently, specifically on my page and the new Armenian Genocide page. Could you help me out please? —The preceding comment was added by Libertarianmoderate (talkcontribs)

A goat for you!Edit

well you are one

Doortodoorseles (talk) 11:40, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


Thanks for explaining what you meant by "technically". I did not get that from what was written. I'm not sure that other readers will get all of that from "technically". How about this instead:

"Bouzigues" comes from the Occitan Bosigas, which means "fallow land" or "wasteland". It is on the other side of a large man-made tidal salt water lagoon called the Étang de Thau, which is 5 km from the Mediterranean Sea. The sea water flows freely into the lagoon, fish and boats can come and go as they please, and the lagoon's shoreline is tidal."

Does that get the meaning across? Ground Zero (talk) 23:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

That's fine, except it's Bouzigues which is 5 km from the sea (separated from it by the lagoon); the étang de Thau meets the sea at Sète, via a short channel, which is noted somewhere else in the article. So, just take out the "which is" and replace it with "and is", and the meaning is correct. Thanks for your other copy-edits.
I have been meaning to go back to that article and implement the rest of the suggested improvements in the talk page, but haven't had a great deal of time to do much more than admin work. I'm trying to get it to a star nomination, with or without a static map. If you have any other suggestions, please do let me know. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Sandbox pagesEdit

Do you like my new sandbox page? Or is it a violation? Because it is kind of a joke article... Libertarianmoderate (talk) 13:58, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

You can, within reason, have anything you like in your userspace. Every year, we work on a joke article in time for April Fool's Day, so you might consider submitting Heaven as an idea for that next year. Very imaginative, by the way. I'm not sure there's much to say about the Grox Empire, other than that they're aggressive as hell, and terrible hosts to weary travellers. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:09, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
I think we've had Heaven for April First already.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Not according to the list. Hell has been done, apparently. To be honest, I've only been involved with this year's article. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:11, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

@user:thunderingtyhpoons: I had no idea you played Spore. If only it were multiplayer (or at least had a working gallery system)... Libertarianmoderate (talk) 20:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I haven't played it in years, actually. A newer and much more complex version is needed, IMO. I remember getting excited about the original concept, waiting for years, and then being disappointed with what was released. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


Hi, I was wondering if you could do me a favor. My second account, User:LibMod, has served its purpose (block evasion). I was wondering if you could 1: Tell me how to delete the LibMod account, and 2: if it's possible to rename my account to LibMod because "Libertarianmoderate" is kind of a mouthful. Libertarianmoderate (talk)

Hi. In answer to your first question, your account can't be deleted, because every edit needs to be attributed to an account. The most we can do is delete the User:LibMod userpage, but the account will still exist. I'm not sure whether we can / should block that account, just to avoid it being hacked, so I'll ping User:LtPowers, User:Pashley and User:Ikan Kekek (admins with much more experience), one of whom will hopefully know.
For the second question, Wikivoyage is part of the wider Wikimedia Foundation, along with Wikipedia, Wiktionary etc, and accounts are shared across the different wikis. Therefore, we can't change usernames locally, so you need to go to Meta:Steward requests/Username changes, read the instructions on the page and then put in a request. You should be logged on to Meta automatically, but if not just log in with the same username and password you use for Wikivoyage. Since User:LibMod already exists, I don't think it will be possible to use that exact name again, but the Stewards will confirm this.
However, maybe hold off on that until another admin can confirm all of what I've told you is correct. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:24, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@TT: Good news, I found a solution. I redirected the User:LibMod page to my own page. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 22:34, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

So do you still want to pursue the renaming? Pinging @LtPowers:, @Pashley: and @Ikan Kekek: because I'm not sure if they received the first one. Would any of you guys be able to advise on whether we should block User:LibMod to prevent it being hacked in future? Thanks, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:20, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

@User:thunderingtyphoons!: No, it's fine. I've found a use for it. —The preceding comment was added by Libertarianmoderate (talkcontribs)


What do you mean that was your edit? The Wikivoyage Barncompass was clearly tagged by User:onlinerewards... Libertarianmoderate (talk) 01:18, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Certainly, but that edit had already been removed. You undid an edit made by me. It's not a big deal. :) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:54, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

More info on local politicsEdit


After watching the news recently, and seeing the surge in politically-motivated violence in the United States, I have realized that we need to provide more info on the politics of areas in the United States. Especially for those who hold right-of-center political views, it is imperative that they know the risks of holding certain views. For example, in California, expressing conservative viewpoints may lead to backlash, as we saw with the Berkeley Riots and Maxine Waters. If travelers from elsewhere come to America not knowing this info, they could be badly harmed or even killed. What I would do is either add a news Local Politics section to our formats, or file it under Respect. Either way, they must know this info, and I need your help to implement this nationwide.

Libertarianmoderate (talk) 15:59, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

What is right of center in the US is not a very widespread political viewpoint in most western democracies, so the number of foreign travelers this would affect is low. And I do think you exaggerate a bit. But do go ahead, expressing your political views in downtown Managua, see what happens. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:08, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
This may be worth doing,though not purely as a means to inform "centre-right" travellers. If there are risks to speaking your mind in the land of the First Amendment, it doesn't just affect people with outspoken right-wing views.
This is something you should discuss with other editors on Talk:United States of America, as there have been controversies even on Wikivoyage about how political our content should get.
As for me joining in, U.S. affairs are not my part of the ship, as it were. There are plenty of Wikivoyagers with a great deal to write about America, but since I am not of them, I stay away from U.S.-related articles. But there are many people who will be interested in commenting on your idea over at Talk:United States of America. Best of luck, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:05, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

I know it's not just right-wingers that are targeted. I'm just using that as an example. We should also explain that liberals may face a similar reaction in red states. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 15:36, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I think you and to some extent User:The dog2 way overblow the way the political debate in the US affects people, particularly travelers. You make it seem that the wrong word at the wrong time can get you killed or worse. There are countries where that is the case, but with a few exceptions (mouthing off to a police officer while black and "reaching for a gun") the US are not such a country. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

It goes without saying that it is a bad idea for visitors to any country to participate in a political protest. We don't include warnings about drinking poison or juggling with knives either. Ground Zero (talk) 11:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Well that would be WV:obvious, would it not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Under the Stay safe article, we already advised people to avoid political protests as long as you are in a foreign country. And well, I think you've misrepresented some of the things I've said. I never said that using the wrong word will get you killed. That is most certainly not the case, as least when it's done outside of a political protest. Of course if you choose a to shout a pro-Trump slogan at a left-wing rally (or an anti-Trump slogan at a right-wing rally), then all bets are off, and I think it's more or less commonsense not to do so. But while violence is in general a low risk, what is true is that Americans are very sensitive, so it's very easy to offend people by saying the wrong thing among the wrong crowd. And sure, it doesn't help that the right calls every single left winger too naive, idealistic and authoritarian, and the left calls every single right winger neo-Nazis and white supremacists (but that said, it's true that many right wingers oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as they consider it "government overreach"; or in other words that it should have stopped at not allowing the government to discriminate, but should have allowed private businesses and individuals to discriminate as much as they like). But offending people doesn't necessarily mean you'll be the target of physical violence. The dog2 (talk) 14:37, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
In the Talk:United States of America#Respect and Trump thread, we came up with the following language: "Since at least the 1990s, the trend has been for Americans to become increasingly polarized in their political beliefs, and nowadays, party allegiance can take precedence over reason and civility. If it even sounds like you are saying something positive about a political figure or policy that someone is against (or speaking ill of a figure or policy they support), you may receive some verbal hostility. However, physically violent reactions to political statements remain rare." Everyone participating in the thread was satisfied with it. What in the World is insufficient about it? I hope nothing, as I really don't think we should spend more time discussing this stuff unless physical attacks on people for political reasons start becoming common in the U.S. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:09, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I wasn't the one who started this thread, and I'm happy with the way the last point in the "Respect" section is worded. Walking down the street carrying pro-Trump slogan will no doubt offend everyone around you in left-wing areas (as would walking down the street carrying an anti-Trump slogan in right-wing areas), but unless there is an anti-Trump rally going on, your personal safety will generally not be under threat from that. In any case, we have already advised travellers to avoid protests when they are in a foreign country in the Stay safe article, so unless there is a higher risk for crowd violence or heavy-handed tactics from the police in the U.S. than in other countries, we need not cover that. At this point in time, I don't think the risk to your personal safety at a protest is higher in the U.S. than in any other Western democracy, so it doesn't warrant any extra warnings. And of course, it's commonsense that you should avoid a KKK rally if you're not white, or a neo-Nazi rally if you're Jewish, so we don't need to advise people about that. And one final point is that despite what you see in the media, as of now, people who commit political violence, both on the left and on the right, are in the vast minority, and unlikely for tourists to have to worry about. The dog2 (talk) 18:17, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── In addition to being historically anti-Catholic (which makes an Irish KKK member especially ironic), they continue to be rampantly antisemitic to this day. Well, most o' 'em at least. Some - very, very few - try to claim "white Jews", but even then the antisemitism quickly shows beneath a thin veneer and facade, so the advice for Jews to avoid (other types of) Neo-Nazi rallies also applies for the KKK... Anyway, if anything is more dangerous in the US than in (most of) Europe then it is plain old murder, the murder rate in the US is - depending on the state - ten times higher than in most EU states. Frankfurt Bahnhofsviertel is likely safer than the "best" urban neighborhoods in the US and some people would be tempted to call the Bahnhofsviertel a "crime hotspot" - albeit a rapidly gentrifying one... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:21, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

That said, the vast majority of those murders are not political murders. Political murders are extremely rare in the U.S., and are no more common than in say, Western Europe. And in any case, the murder rate in the U.S. still doesn't come close to the likes of Brazil, Mexico or South Africa. As long as you stay in the good areas, you'll generally be fine. The dog2 (talk) 05:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Huh. The same is true for the Mexican murder rate - as long as you stay out of the way of "certain groups" aren't a politician unwilling to take plata (and thus liable to get the plomo treatment) or a journalist asking the "wrong" questions you'll be fine. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:09, 11 July 2018 (UTC)



Hi, I recently started an article about Bilhorod, Ukraine, but I don't have time to finish it. All the templates are in place, but it needs more info. Could you help me out? Libertarianmoderate (talk) 17:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't take requests to work on specific articles. I work on places I know, and recently have barely had time for that. I am happy to help and advise anyone, but doing other people's editing for them stretches the limits of that. It's a personal thing, and you may find editors willing to do what you have in mind.
Just remember, there's no rush to get any article 'finished', and you can return to it (and the others you've started in the Middle East) when you have more time. Wikipedia has a great essay on this subject, which you may wish to read: Wikipedia:There's no deadline. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:18, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
User:Libertarianmoderate, have a look at User:Ypsilon/Tips for improving articles on unfamiliar destinations. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:22, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

User:ThunderingTyphoons!, I guess you're right. There are no deadlines. Unless you're talking about Ar Rutba, in which case that had to be done ASAP or you'd delete all my hard work and redirect the first article I ever wrote. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 01:34, 13 July 2018 (UTC)


I know how to stop Telstra. Look at Talk: vandalism in progress. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 00:20, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

User Kennock483: Telstra- yes or no?Edit

A lot of telstra's accounts have numbers in them. I think I might have found another one. Could you check it out for me? Libertarianmoderate (talk) 03:12, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Also, Johnbell3290 looks suspicious. Both of them edited similar articles (all of which are ongoing edit issues) and neither one engages in discussions or has a proper user page like mine or yours. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 03:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

It could be Telstra, but there doesn't seem to be any vandalism or unwanted edits. Thanks for being on the lookout! Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:22, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Account creation log and recent edit pageEdit

I was wondering if you could tell me how to access the recent edit page and the account creation log. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 15:02, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Special:RecentChanges can be accessed by clicking the link on the sidebar, the second option under 'Get involved'. The User creation log is here. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:27, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

User:FUERDAl on Ferris WheelsEdit

Telstra: yes or no? Libertarianmoderate (talk) 19:45, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I've been away from WV. That's a different vandal, not Telstra. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

User logEdit

You are not going to believe this. Most of the last 500 account creations are "created automatically" or in other words, BOTS. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 19:47, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

What to include in mapsEdit

You seemed to be wondering. When I take into consideration that the traveler comes first, it seems to me that any mapmaking companies that are very useful for a geographic region would be useful in the article, although of course it wouldn't make sense to include every single map of every single settlement in the whole world. Thanks for adding all of those mapmaking companies. Selfie City (talk) 21:48, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, though it would be difficult to know where to stop! The French equivalent of OS maps are the IGN, but many countries probably have their versions too, so deciding where to draw the line is the issue. In addition to any other 'famous' series, we could simply refer travellers to national articles, all of which should (though probably don't) have a maps section, either in the main article, or in the "Driving in Exampleland" article --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
I understand your point. Maybe only include mapping services for whole countries and cities with at least 3 million people. Selfie City (talk) 22:01, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Which is still going to be a list of hundreds. Which is fine, by the way, if we want to make the map version of UNESCO World Heritage List, but might not be what you originally had in mind. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, not really... Maybe we should have a limit of, say, fifteen physical map listings. Selfie City (talk) 23:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Sounds like a plan, which can always be amended if need be. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:31, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I think we should add the ones we know about until we reach fifteen. Then, if we discover a different mapmaking company that covers a larger area or more important city than one of the fifteen, we can always replace. Selfie City (talk) 17:38, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
One of my friends gave me an AAA road atlas of North America, many years ago, because I collect maps. Are those as common / well-known as the Rand McNally? If so, it could be put in at the end of the listing, as I have done at the Michelin listing. That seems a way of upping the content / not privileging one brand too heavily, without having loads of duplicate listings for regional competitors. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'm more familiar with Rand McNally than I am with the AAA road atlas, but I think what you've done looks fine (I've put it in bold text though). By the way, there's a lot of atlas/encyclopedia books out there that are produced by Random House and Oxford, I believe. I think these should be included as well, probably in a separate section. Selfie City (talk) 18:04, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you 3Edit

Thanks for adding me to the Autopatrollers group! I appreciate your trust in my work. Zcarstvnz (talk) 14:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

You earned it. Thank you for your hard work. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:30, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting the vandalism to my talk page...Edit

...and the other vandalism committed by the same user. However, as much as it pains me to say it, it's against policy to indefinitely block anonymous IP addresses, which are reassigned often enough that we have to worry about what happens when some future person with the same address tries to edit Wikivoyage. Three months is what policy cites as the maximum length of an IP userblock, though I've instituted six-month and even one-year blocks uncontroversially. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

You're right, I got carried away with that one. Thanks for adjusting the block settings. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Maybe we should extend the maximum block to one year for IP addresses. That seems reasonable to me. Selfie City (talk) 01:59, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
Make a proposal, see what people think. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:52, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

An award for you! 3Edit

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Great work on handling outdated docent notices. ---Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

@SelfieCity: Thanks for noticing :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:54, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

About Youtube permissionsEdit

I have set your permissions to be admin and you will be able to manage and ship videos.--Yuriy kosygin (talk) 13:30, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I've responded via email.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:33, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
No, sorry. I've gone back to the channel page and subscribed, but no difference. I logged out of my account and then logged in again, to see if something would change, and it is still the same. Are you sure you set it for the right account? There must be a lot of accounts called 'James' on YouTube. Maybe you could send the permission again? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:53, 25 August 2018 (UTC)


One very minor question: I notice that, in your damage control of the whole LibMod mess, you moved the article originally at LGBT travel to a new title LGBT Travel instead of moving it back to its original (pre-vandalism) location. This leaves LGBT travel as a redirect with a history (it pointed first to the vandalised title, then it pointed to LGBT Travel) so an admin would be needed to move the article back over the redirect if we're to be consistent with the capitalisation of other titles like Literary travel and Historical travel. Was this your intention? K7L (talk) 04:23, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Nooo, that definitely wasn't my intention. Sorry for the lax attention to detail. I'll fix it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:36, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

What the hell?Edit

Why am I blocked? AndreCarrotflower blocked me without even nominating me for a ban! I have done nothing wrong! Who the hell is LibMod, what did he do that you now suspect me of, what the heck is a doppelganger, and what does any of this have to do with me?! If you're going to ban me, at least answer me! AmericanRide2 (talk) 00:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

TT, It's explained in the pub. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 02:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
@SelfieCity: Cheers. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:06, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

City in JupiterEdit

  • ROFL totally for about five minutes now. :D Thanks for that! Ibaman (talk) 17:35, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
:D ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:10, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Results from global Wikimedia survey 2018 are publishedEdit

19:25, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

History of the US FlagEdit

Hi, I saw you added a notice saying that the banner I used needed to be cropped. Do you know anyone on here who can do that while giving the proper credit for the image? Vulcandor (talk) 23:29, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Vulcandor: It's been sorted now, thanks to User:Traveler100, who has produced many fine banners.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:28, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Duplicate topic...Edit

RAJASTHAN TRAVEL GUIDE Looks to me to be a duplicate? As well as possibly someone not understanding the anti-tout policy Wikivoyage has. Thanks in advance for handling this. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:00, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to attention. In future, you can tag a page with {{delete}}, which brings up this template, and is visible to every user with deletion rights. All the best, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)


How to handle seemingly old user drafts?

The tone of the language suggests some of the content may have come from elsewhere.. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:25, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Spam, so it gets deleted. Thanks for the spot.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:58, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

"Cleaning" Userspace pagesEdit

Following on from the direction of the previous: User:Akanksha toppo needs review... I tried to reformat this but.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:28, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

That doesn't read like copyvio to me, just a draft article the user never managed to publish. Can you prove it has been copied from somewhere? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I can't. If you think it's just an old draft, I am going to assume good faith :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:01, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Reverted some content on you Talk pageEdit!&oldid=3658479!&oldid=3658475

and some IP content. content suggests NOTHERW, and given the tone of the language on my page, I think they should apologise to me in person (never going to happen though, XD). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:52, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Thank you, buddy. Try not to take the insults of vandals personally, eh? ;) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Feel free to edit User:SelfieCity/DenyEdit

It's still a draft, and if you've got a better alternative to an edit war, by all means make the change. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Will do.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "ThunderingTyphoons!".