User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!/Archive 3 (2019-2021)

Older discussions can be found at: Archive 1 (2013-2015) Archive 2 (2016-2018) Newer ones can be found at: Current user talk page

Et cetera in French

You've really found that French people don't understand et cetera? I have found the opposite. I've usually seen it written "&c." in French, although French Wikipedia states that that's less common than etc., but I've certainly heard ordinary French people of my age speak the expression. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps it's a generational thing. Or perhaps I'm confusing it with something else... --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:41, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Botanical tourism, Splitting out lengthy sections..

Plunge forward. , I would consider a split reasonable.. Do we have a tag for {{split out}}?, as I can think of sections in other articles that might be worth splitting out ( Like the Get around section in London, and at some point I'd written London Underground which could be retitled and used as the split point.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

While I do agree that some of these longer generic travel topic articles will eventually need splitting, all I was doing on that occasion was correcting a few typos before bed. As we don't appear to have that template, just use the article's talk page to attract discussion and consensus. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

It's fixed, I'm back

Now it's fixed; the "bad faith beta" filter needed a little adjustment which I could make by myself. I was able to edit on all other wikis and even Wikivoyages in other languages, but here I couldn't even write on my talk page - funnily enough, the rollback and patrol buttons remained live. Now it"s 100% operational. Ibaman (talk) 21:26, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh good, welcome back. I just wrote that email on a bumpy bus, glad that you didn't need it in the end. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I might have added your username to the filter, so it blocked any edits with "Ibaman" in them! Sincere apologies.

User:Doug Weller had the same problem. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:23, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Banlung 1

I can not understand why i can not add one verídic information. U can explain me why u delete the information i have put. I m traveling now in Banlung and know the information. Can u explain me the reason why u delete? Pitxiquin (talk) 13:52, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Banlung 2

Hola. Veo que entiendes el castellanisme. Perdona que te escriba en este idioma. Lo domino mas que el ingles. Yo no sou vandalico. Sou editor experto de la Viquipèdia en català. Puedes verlo si quieres. Lo inici que me història és saber que he echo mal editando la informació certera y veritable que he añadido de una agència de viajes local. No tengo ningún interès en la misma, solo añado informacion por si alguien quiere buscar un guia local indígena que le explique el funcionamento y como vivien las gentes locals. No entiendo que hay de mal en Ello. Y Mas cuando contrasto la información con una pàgina web que funciona y avala la informacion. Si me puedes explicar que hago mal, agradeceria que lo explicaràs en vez de borrar la información y proteger la pàgina. Gràcies. Atentamente, Pitxiquin. Pitxiquin (talk) 14:02, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Yo te pedo a esperar una respuesta de User:Ibaman antes de editar la página de nuevo. No sé cómo eso se pasa en la Wikipedia en català, pero aquí no se toleran las guerras de edición. ¿Podrías leer nuestras políticas aquí y aquí? Aunque mi español escrito no es tan bueno, entiendo tu mensaje perfectamente. Sin embargo estoy en trabajo entonces no te puedo ayudar más. Bona tarda, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:26, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

• For the record, I moved all the touty non-compliant listings to Talk:Banlung because I agree with Pitxiquin that removing "his" listing and letting the others stand would be very unfair. Now we have a cleaner page. Ibaman (talk) 15:15, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Dresden Tram

It's not just you, the trams - for whatever reason - don't show up... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:54, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Probably a Wikidata issue. Andree would be the best person to speak to.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:32, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Didn't want to respond @ the pub, because I know why it's not working... :) Basically there are no wikidata records for the tram routes, and neither are there (obviously) links from OSM to wikidata - needs to be done from scratch. But it's nice that the tram routes/relations are already in OSM, that's a very good start - the missing parts should be quite straightforward to do. But I ain't got time to do it, unfortunately... -- andree.sk(talk) 12:46, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

By the way, the issue exists for most (I'm not confident saying "all") Tram systems in Germany... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:03, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Andree, for the explanation. As with most things on Wikivoyage, there are more jobs which need doing than there are people to do them. Though this is thankfully one of the less important ones.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:26, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster:, the point is - it's a bit of a miracle if the tram routes are at least in OSM. The routes tend to change every year or so (well, at least where I live they do... they renumber, change route, disappear or re-appear etc.), it's quite some work to sync the maps. The S-Bahn or subway routes are much more stable/reliable. -- andree.sk(talk) 20:30, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello

Have a look at Special:AbuseFilter/45 when you get the chance.

Cc: Ikan, SelfieCity, Granger, ARR8

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:12, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Read, thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Have read and replied with detailed ramblings.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:05, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Requesting second view...

Concerning:- https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=London%2FMayfair-Marylebone&type=revision&diff=3744050&oldid=3744048

Reverted an edit here.. and left the contributor the standard welcome message for a business.

I'd like a second view as to the appropriateness of the course of action taken. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:54, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

You did the right thing. Thank you, mate. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:53, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Do we have a local Check User? - https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=London/Mayfair-Marylebone&action=history

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

and Special:Contributions/K2prestigecarhire ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:57, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

No check users here. But when it's obvious, we can just block someone abusing multiple accounts. I'll check both accounts out.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Another edit of concern...

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=London/East_End&curid=20094&oldid=3744300

This was already reverted, but per policy about DENY as locally applied, it should probably be overisghted and the IP address responsible suppressed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:54, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: We aren't using 'Deny' on random time wasters, just on the worst repeat vandals. Thanks for your efforts in opposing vandalism. :-) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:08, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Bouzigues star nomination

Just in case you didn't know, I've posted the Bouzigues star nomination. Thanks for the work you've done on that article! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I did know, just haven't been on Wikivoyage much to respond. Thanks for doing that 😀 --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:51, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Bringing up Wikivoyage in a job application

Swept in from the pub

Has anyone here ever used their experiences of editing Wikivoyage, and/or what you have contributed to and learnt from WV, in the process of getting a new job (either at the initial application phase, or later interview stages)? If so, how did that go? I'd very much like to hear your experiences. If you haven't, would you consider doing so, or do you think it is a bad idea? Open to any and all viewpoints. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, it would obviously be relevant if you are applying to anything at https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/jobs/ ;-)

More generally, if the job is about writing, then they can find samples of your writing here. I also think that it's proof that you're self-motivated and self-organized, which is valued in many positions. It also demonstrates that you can find ways to work with others, because this is a collaborative environment. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:47, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Back when I worked in the hotel industry, I always put my Wikivoyage experience on my resume and it was a big help. Invariably, it was one of the things about which I could always count on the interviewer asking for more information. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

(As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why I eventually stopped mentioning it was that my employers would use my expertise to justify giving me additional duties above and beyond the usual job description, i.e. responding to guests' TripAdvisor reviews, without any corresponding increase in salary. So in my case, you might say it worked a little too well.) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I would say that generally it would be good to briefly mention it, particularly if the application process has any "outside interests" questions. However this type of question is less common these days as it can lead to inadvertent race/gender bias. Wikis are often used as internal business platforms, so experience in wiki-editing can be relevant. It would be worth looking to see if the employer has had any friction with WP - is there a WP page which company management might want deleted, in which case approach it more cautiously. There are also a few jobs where open communication is a bad idea! AlasdairW (talk) 23:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

TT/whoever's interested in the topic, one thing to note: how would they know (we'll just use the name "Joe" for now) that Joe is the same person as ThunderingTyphoons/AlasdairW/Ikan Kekek on Wikivoyage? It's like if I applied for a job and included in my resume that I use Wikivoyage under the username "123456". It would be hard either to prove that I was 123456 or that I wasn't, since "123456" isn't my real name. You get the idea? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, I have a huge photo of myself on my userpage, and if you go into the page history you see it was uploaded and placed on the page by the same account that did the bulk of the work on Buffalo and its districts and so forth. All of which happened years before the position even opened up. If it’s a con, it’s a long and strange one. — AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:58, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

My experience when mentioning hobbies like this in job interviews is that no one is trying to verify that what I'm saying is true. But if the interviewer is skeptical and wants you to prove your identity, that can be done using email or by logging in in front of them. I wouldn't worry about it.

I would suggest thinking of some examples of your best work on the wiki so that if they ask what articles you've contributed to, you'll have an answer ready. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:24, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@AndreCarrotflower: Yes, you wouldn't have any problem. But when I wrote my comment I was talking in general. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:31, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm really grateful for everyone's opinions on this. There are replies I could write to each of you in turn, though sadly I haven't the time. But these answers are super! Thank you all, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:19, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

If you are around...

... can you please block Special:Contributions/Modulation scheme for template vandalism? Thanks Maxim (talk) 18:48, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

@Maxim: Done - thanks for the tipoff.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Spelling

You're right about the spelling. I reverted the user's edit because of the original user, not the content he/she included. But you're absolutely right. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 14:28, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

I have also replied to your comment. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:45, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I saw.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:50, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek, Ground Zero, AndreCarrotflower, Traveler100, Ibaman: and @LPfi, Pashley, DaGizza, Yvwv:, and any regular admin I've forgotten about (sorry):

I know most of you don't follow developments on the filters, but please do weigh in on the discussion at abuse filter 45, as soon as you can.

Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:32, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

I've added my thoughts. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your assistance

Thank you for your recent assistance. Your comments about roll-backs gave me the validation I needed to proceed with reverting abuse of the roll-back function. I don't want to prolong the squabble with that editor because he is a long-standing, if difficult, contributor, who has added a lot to Wikivoyage. At the same time, I do not want to stand down from making articles easier to read and less jargony. He has not responded, so I think we can count this as a de-escalation, which is a good thing. Best regards, Ground Zero (talk) 20:34, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

I think we all want what's best for Wikivoyage, even where we disagree on what that means. Hopefully, he will take my request to heart, and that will be the end of it. Keep smiling, :-) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:16, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

User:Alexkyoung

Hello. This user, or someone claiming to be this user, came onto IRC asking how to request an unblock on this project and claiming they were not related to User:Libertarianmoderate. I'm not sure what their 5 now-deleted edits are, but unless it's 100% certainly a sockpuppet of that user I think they should be given talk page access to request an unblock. Best regards, Vermont (talk) 02:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Hello @Vermont: As far as I am concerned, that user is a sockpuppet of Libertarianmoderate. This conviction is based on the name of the Alexkyoung account, his Wikipedia edits - both the content he added and the way in which he conducted himself (i.e. abusively using multiple accounts) - and on the comments he made at his WP user talk page after he was banned. The now hidden edits the user made to Wikivoyage were a resumption of the disruptive Chinese nationalist edits that brought his Wikipedia account to sysop attention in the first place. At best this suggests Alex learnt nothing from the experience of being banned at Wikipedia, and at worst it's a repetition of a pattern displayed by Libertarianmoderate and other sock accounts of his.

Therefore, per our policy at WV:How to handle unwanted edits ("At the discretion of an administrator, the talk pages of spambots, long-term vandals and abusers may be protected from all edits by users without admin rights"), I don't think I am under any obligation to allow Alex to appeal his Wikivoyage block via his user talk page. Furthermore, I don't think there is anything the user could write in an appeal that would convince me to change my mind.

However, being a fallible human, it is at least possible that, despite my conviction, I am mistaken about this user's identity. So, for the sake of fairness, I am willing to 'refer up' to this wiki's two most active bureaucrats: User:AndreCarrotflower and User:Ikan Kekek. They can hopefully take a look at the user's edits on Wikipedia and Wikivoyage, and then offer a second and third opinion of my conclusions. If they decide there is sufficient doubt around the user's identity, then we can allow Alex the opportunity to appeal the block at his talk page.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you for the response. Best regards, Vermont (talk) 13:09, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

@Vermont, ThunderingTyphoons!: It's not clear to me that this user is a Libertarianmoderate sockpuppet, but given the content of his Wikipedia talk page, it's very clear that he's someone's sockpuppet, and in the case of this user I don't really think it matters who the puppeteer is. Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits#User ban explicitly allows for editors who are already banned on other WMF sites to be reciprocally banned on Wikivoyage, and I have no doubt that a userban was the right call here - Alexkyoung clearly was not a good-faith contributor to Wikipedia and the same picture had begun emerging from the character of his edits to Wikivoyage as well. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:07, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of the identity of the user, on the basis of their unconstructive edits to Wikivoyage alone, the indefinite block is justified. Wikipedia can handle its own affairs, and for me to spend precious time reading through this user's posts on Wikipedia with the aim of second-guessing them as an ordinary user of Wikipedia would be unnecessary, useless and inappropriate. We could unhide the reverted edits, though, if others feel that's a good move. Trust me, User:Vermont, they don't make for great reading. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

burger

i added a new travel subject hope u dont mind. Cactusflies22 (talk) 12:42, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi there @Cactusflies22: Looks like that was deleted, and to be honest I can see why - empty or near-empty new articles tend to be deleted pretty quickly here. I would encourage you to focus on articles that already exist, and add to those. Did you know, we already have an article called Fast food in the United States and Canada - if you're interested, you can work on that. Let me know if you have any problems. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:29, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

And American cuisine. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:24, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Banja Luka

Hi, wanted to let you know that I added a comment on the talk page of Banja Luka article. Alaexis (talk) 19:46, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Liverpool

Thanks for fixing the Spanish page for Liverpool.--Darrelljon (talk) 12:57, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Any time :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:32, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Second opinion needed...

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Ronda&diff=prev&oldid=3837376 Viable link or touting? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:27, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Obvious touting, as you quickly realised. A general rule of thumb is that if a link is completely unrelated to the word being linked from, it's a tout. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:07, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi ThunderingTyphoons!/Archive 3 (2019-2021),

The Wikimedia Foundation is asking for your feedback in a survey about your experience with Wikivoyage and Wikimedia. The purpose of this survey is to learn how well the Foundation is supporting your work on wiki and how we can change or improve things in the future. The opinions you share will directly affect the current and future work of the Wikimedia Foundation.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi ThunderingTyphoons!/Archive 3 (2019-2021),

A couple of weeks ago, we invited you to take the Community Insights Survey. It is the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual survey of our global communities. We want to learn how well we support your work on wiki. We are 10% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! Your voice matters to us.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 19:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Second Opinion.

Special:Contributions/Mar_Tranquilidade Conlilct of interest? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:20, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Borderline case of touting. If there were already multiple sleep listings on the article, I would have deleted that one, but that is the first and thus far only sleep listing, so worth keeping and detouting.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:57, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

help?

hi thundering i need guidance in helping out. Cactusflies22 (talk) 20:21, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Cactusflies22! Did you read Wikivoyage:Tips for new contributors? You don't need any general advice beyond this to get started, just plunge forward and add something that will help travellers to an article. As I mentioned on your talk page a month ago, it would be a good idea to pick an article for a place you know well, like your hometown. But you could pick any article you like. Once you've actually started editing, I'm happy to help and advise further.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:28, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Second Opinion 2

I wasn't sure about this edit given the user name suggests a conflict of interest: -

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Tibet&curid=35975&diff=3850490&oldid=3815563  ? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:06, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

User:Ibaman dealt with it. Feel free to take action against touts yourself in future: revert the touty edit(s), stick the {{subst:tout}} message on their talk page, and put them on your watchlist. I understand you feel comfortable asking for a second opinion, but your initial judgement that you're dealing with a tout hasn't been wrong yet, so perhaps you should trust your judgement more :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:34, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

New user

Hi there. I am new to Wikivoyage but I have been on the English Wikipedia for quite a while now. I am interested in helping out, are you able to give me some tips? What would be useful is some key differences from Wikipedia which you could explain, if you are able to. Thanks a lot, Willbb234 (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Here you go: Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians, and welcome from me as well. Ypsilon (talk) 16:50, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Ypsilon has pretty much covered it. Reading the other links in my welcome message would give you lots of tips too. I would be happy to answer any other specific questions. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi ThunderingTyphoons!/Archive 3 (2019-2021),

There are only a few weeks left to take the Community Insights Survey! We are 30% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! With this poll, the Wikimedia Foundation gathers feedback on how well we support your work on wiki. It only takes 15-25 minutes to complete, and it has a direct impact on the support we provide.

Please take 15 to 25 minutes to give your feedback through this survey. It is available in various languages.

This survey is hosted by a third-party and governed by this privacy statement (in English).

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your edit at Frankfurt Airport

Thank you for attempting to mediate here. I am really trying hard to get HS to collaborate, but he seems unwilling to do so.

I want to point out that my edits went beyond just trying to simplify the Understand section. I'm not sure if you saw those. Below that section, I made copyedits to fix spacing and capitalization errors, and remove wording that is awkward or redundant or just unnecessary.

• Telling readers to "plan accordingly" is WV:obvious.
• "Be aware that" is pompous and school-marmish, not lively.
• I've never heard of a "female parking facility". I can guess what it is, but I'm not sure, and think that readers may benefit from a few words of explanation.
• "Keep that in mind if you are a late arrival or in need of a hotel room late in the evening." -- this is just filler. The useful advice has already been provided.
• The text switches from US to UK spelling. I tried to fix that. And from "terminal 1" to "Terminal 1".
• "think up and down levels as well as staying" is clumsy. I think our advice should be clear.
• "Four nearby, a bit of a hike the other side of the Autobahn" should have a main verb in it because sentences read better with main verbs.
• "Busses" is an odd spelling used only by some Americans. Merriam-Webster says that hardly anyone uses "busses" anymore.

I could go on, but it is frustrating that no matter how much I explain my copyedits, HS refuses to discuss changes. I leave it in your hands. Regards, and thanks again for bravely going forth into the breach. Ground Zero (talk) 18:06, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, at some point you have to admit personal defeat, if you want the project as a whole to succeed. I commend you for your efforts, but hope you understand that I'm not just going to go down your list and fix everything in the way you suggest - that's not a good look for a 'mediator'! What I think would benefit the project is if you walked away from that article and focused on something else, because this is escalating way beyond what is reasonable. This is what I hope you meant by "I leave it in your hands." I have suggested the same to Hobbitschuster as well. With best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:36, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

I consciously did not comment above on any differences in the Understand section, which is where I think his objections lie. I am walking away from that text and accepting your compromise position. It's the other stuff where I don't think he can really object to the changes. It seems like he just objects to me changing his text.

I understand the appeal of the "pox on both your houses" approach, but I do feel hard done-by because I have been doing my best to do things the way we are asked to do them in Wikivoyage, and HS is, well, just not. I think that is an ongoing problem for Wikivoyage that won't be resolved by your very well-meaning attempt to mediate. A compromise should not reward his behaviour. Ground Zero (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I do get that. You have Wikivoyage policy at the forefront of your mind a lot more than he does. This is obvious when looking at the talk pages. But no matter your intentions, sometimes the outcomes are what matter. You've tried to discuss and negotiate, and it hasn't worked. In fact, it has possibly made things worse. What may solve the micro problem of this particular article is if you backed away from trying to edit it for the time being and allowed others to try, since I agree that what really seems to bug Hobbit is your involvement, rather than any particular edits.

What this will not solve, of course, is the macro problem that you and he cannot work together. In a wiki this size you're just going to keep meeting, and I fear that will lead to further tensions and edit wars. But if you continue as you are (i.e. using talk pages, refraining from using personal attacks, citing policy etc) and he continues as he is, it's pretty obvious where the hammer will fall. I really, really hope it doesn't come to that, trust you will play your part to ensure it doesn't, and pray that Hobbit will do the same.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:02, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

User:Chrisjonesaus2

Hi. I'm not going to make a strong argument against your perma-blocking him, but the thing is, we have an established procedure of escalating blocks, and I posted a strong warning on his user talk page, mentioning that if he continues touting and posting links to ordinary tours, he would not only be blocked immediately (which would have been initially a 3-day block) but that we could de-list his agency in the Lhasa (prefecture) article and blacklist its URL. What do you intend to do relating to those things? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:05, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Unblocked. I didn't look at his talk page, so didn't realise I was essentially undermining your warning. If he touts again, given the time-lapse between instances, I don't think in this case a three-day block will be worth it, though if you'd rather follow the letter of the escalating block policy, I won't object. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:38, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

We can also de-list and ban that URL. I think I'd de-list first, then ban next time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Sure thing. Thanks for explaining.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:55, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Diablo Range

Thanks for mentioning public transport. Somehow, it seems that I completely forgot about BART, which goes to the Tri-Valley, and now I think of it, other trains that go along the Transcontinental Railroad (I think it's that one) to Pleasanton. I've added short mentions in Diablo Range#Get in about taxis and BART, and I can expand on those later. During Thanksgiving, I don't have as much time as I would like to have, but at some point I think I can get to adding those details! Thanks, all of you guys, for the input on improving the article. I think you're absolutely right that there are some ways it could be better.

--Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:24, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Well I'm glad to be of help. There's no rush to get that information on there, as even assuming the article gets greenlit, you know it probably won't be featured for months, don't you? No-one is expecting you to immediately jump to action and make all the necessary improvements in a week.

Out of interest, do you say "Bart" (I imagine in a Homer-like way, tearing his remaining hair out), or "Bee Ay Are Tee"?

Whatever you have planned for Thanksgiving, all the best to you and your family.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:41, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

I understand, and I really don't expect it to be featured until late 2020 or 2021.

I always think of it as "bart." I've never heard it spelled out. Thanks for the thoughts! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:10, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks

Hello! I've been on an extended Wikibreak that I project will last another one to two weeks as I take care of some offwiki business, but I did want to acknowledge and thank you for the recognition for my work on DotM banners. It's a tough job sometimes, but I enjoy it because it's the intersection of a bunch of my interests: travel, writing, and photography (my own and others'). Despite my Wikibreak, I do intend to create banners for Driving in Brazil and Nha Trang before the next OtBP goes live, and I'm looking forward to a new year and a new decade full of banners and Buddha statues!

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:17, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

@AndreCarrotflower: You earned that pudding. Happy new year, and take all the time you need. I appreciate the reply. As for the Nha Trang banner, I've got you covered.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:32, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Activity in Igls

Have a look at the Revision history, please. It looks like AC is back in two guises. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:59, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Ikan, while the IP might be AC, the new user name is likely the "pub is closed vandel" (sic), as they also dropped a comment to User:DannyS712, who probably is doing a great job fighting this vandal on different wikis as the vandal never misses an opportunity to post a Wikilove on his talk page. Also, this vandal is nowadays commonly showing up during this time of the day.

One of the new antics of this vandal is restoring previous vandalism, touting and other unwanted edits, for example in Mamallapuram (those particular edits were apparently hidden per our deny recognition policy). Ypsilon (talk) 19:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Note the username "Dannyoldpal". Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

And "Vote to ban Ikan Kekek" or something along those lines a week ago. :P Ypsilon (talk) 19:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah. I was offline during that episode, but I saw the aftermath of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:42, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, he's got my vote :P

Thank you both for dealing with whatever happened today. I'm still not comfortable with deleting swathes of travel guide content like that, but don't see what else I could have done besides turning a blind eye to the edits and potentially allowing more far-right stuff in under the radar.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

We could always selectively restore clearly needed text in the interest of travellers. But we shouldn't let vandals do it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:16, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

With altered wording or the same? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:00, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

As you wish. Though it's worth remembering that the entire article was started by and largely the work of this banned user in the first place. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:10, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, I remember that. But I do feel that TTCF should compel us to disregard the fact of its authorship as long as the content is fine. Might do a fact check on the listings, and if they're clean, reinstate them.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Second view?

Special:Contributions/Walaa_fares$

I am not sure if this is a user not knowing this is English Wikivoyage, or a possible tout given the user name.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk)

Religious spam. Thanks, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Main page

The coronavirus article is already linked in the new banner. I was adding AndreCarrotflower's homily from Facebook. Ground Zero (talk) 14:28, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes I know, I was testing something out to get rid of that blank space and it didn't work. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:46, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking that if an internal link worked, then we could host a copy of the statement on a special page on-wiki, and link that from the main page rather than going to Facebook.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:14, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Vandalism in progress

Take a look at Recent changes. --Ypsilon (talk) 21:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorted. Thank you, mate.ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Merging pages

Hi, I put some draft expanded guidance on how to merge on that discussion page. I saw nothing extant on whether to blank the source page (the example being Horwich). If it is indeed helpful to do so, please say why, and import the amended draft into the guidance as you see fit. Grahamsands (talk) 17:59, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi Graham. It's basically to save a reader who may hit return from seeing what looks like a normal article, only hidden; a blank page with just a redirect looks more intentional. It also stops someone from coming along and unilaterally deciding to remove the redirect template, causing the articles to "double up" on content. This could easily go unnoticed, whereas the alternatives if a redirect is blank will involve either an undo (in which case you or whoever made the redirect would get a notification), or the person will try to write a new article, which will show up as a large edit on recent changes.

Hope this makes sense. Which discussion page do you mean? Wikivoyage:How to merge two pages? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:54, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Uh, think I follow that. Yes, it's that page, para "more guidance". Grahamsands (talk) 19:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Done --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:41, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Spreading smiles

	Barnstar of Good Humor
	Thank you for making me smile today. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:30, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Excellent, my first barnstar :) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:20, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Routebox question

I wonder about the routebox for E6 in Trondheim with the "main" Östersund/Tromsø. E6 does not go to Östersund, but E14 does (according to the routebox there). Is this slash notation standard when there is a crossroads between cities? –LPfi (talk) 07:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

(I have had trouble deciding what to do when a village in the middle of nowhere with one lodging – the present status of which I have been unable to confirm – is an important transfer point, which I'd want to be able to link. I suppose the routebox issue is similar. –LPfi (talk) 07:08, 30 April 2020 (UTC))

I think the relevant guideline is Wikivoyage:Routebox navigation#Termini, merging, and rural junctions:

When a road route crosses another route of equal or higher importance at a place for which we have no article, an unlinked text note reading "Junction" plus a reduced-size icon of the highway in question should be inserted, along with an arrow and space on the appropriate side.

But contrary to your edit summary, E14 starts from Trondheim, according to Wikidata, en-wp, sv-wp nn-wp and no-wp. It seems to follow the same road as E6 to Hell, where it forks off. The routebox in Hell does not mention E14.

–LPfi (talk) 07:30, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi, LPfi. I don't know Norway at all, and but always use a map when adding routeboxes, and only the E6 was marked as going to Trondheim. I often also use tend to use Street View of road signs to decide which destinations to put on a routebox when I don't know the area, because it seems to be that the routeboxes should match up with what travellers see when driving, However, I had stopped doing that with Norway, because they seem to use fewer directional signs than most countries, though just now I have found this sign at a junction just eat of Trondheim, to which there are two things of note:

• The long-distance destination is Narvik, rather than Tromsø, which strikes me as odd, because Narvik is relatively small and unimportant, whereas Tromsø by comparison is an arctic metropolis. I could change the northbound long-distance destination to Narvik on all E6 routeboxes on the Trodheim-Narvik stretch, to match the signs, or stick to the more well-known and tourist-oriented Tromsø. What do you think? Also, by the by, no mention of Östersund, so that can probably go too.
• To return to your comment, both E6 and E14 appear on the sign, though E14 has a dotted border around it (you'll have to zoom in). Do you know the significance of that? Could it mean "E6 leading to E14", or "E6, multiplexing with E14"?

I didn't even realise we had guidelines for routeboxes, but now I do know about it I still think my way (naming the place where the junction occurs and a destination of the other road) is better than just "junction E14" at an unspecified point along the road. But E14 should definitely have its own routebox at Stjørdal (in the outer circle of Hell), for sure.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

My knowledge on Norway is quite weak (I have never been responsible for driving or navigation there), but in Finland the dotted border indeed means "leading to". I don't know whether Narvik or Tromsø makes more sense, but Tromsø is far away and Narvik has E10 to Sweden. Although Narvik is quite small, I am sure any Scandinavian knows it, and any Norwegian would know that you need to go via there to reach Tromsø (unless there is some ferry connection out in the archipelago). You say that the sign was east of Trondheim; is it possible that E14 from Trondheim just had not yet joined E6 from the south? (but that would probably mean E14 were synonymous with road 706, and I think that is not what they do in Norway) So no, I don't know what should be done. The way to mark junctions should probably be discussed at the guideline talk page. –LPfi (talk) 11:25, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Right then, I'll replace Tromsø with Narvik.

The sign is at the junction of E6 and 706, which seems the most likely point the E14 would join if it were coming from Trondheim, though it may not be. Perhaps the E14 just starts on the E6 at the same junction, or else it starts in Stjørdal, where the routes deviate. The dotted line probably means the same as in Finland, but even if it doesn't, the E14 at best shares the same tarmac as the E6 as far as Stjørdal, so a separate routebox in Trondheim would be a bit pointless.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:46, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps E14 officially starts from Trondheim (joint stretch with E6 to Stjørdalshalsen), but that does not really matter because E6 is the reference. Traffic towards Östersund and Sweden will leave E6 at Stjørdalshalsen and follow the E14 signs. Erik den yngre (talk) 15:15, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Narvik is not a major tourist destination (despite the great ski slopes), but an important junction. The main towns of the north are in Bodø and Tromsø, but these towns are not directly on the E6. The E6 is the key road in Norway, and whereever you drive south-north the question is "will you be driving the E6?". Narvik is however too far from Trondheim (some 15 hours driving), Mo i Rana, the main town south of Saltfjellet pass, makes more sense. Mo i Rana is also connected to Sweden by E12 and is the last chance to turn west for the Helgeland coastal road. Erik den yngre (talk) 14:39, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you mean; it's a long way, some 900 km, and Mo i Rana is roughly at the half-way mark. Still, Narvik is the town drivers will see on the road signs. If our routeboxes say Mo i Rana and all drivers can see is signs to Narvik, there's potential for confusion, isn't there? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:03, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Good point. Road authorities say that the far destination on the sign should in principle not be more than 1 days drive (6-8 hours), seems they break their own rules. In Norway there is usually no point in driving on satnav, drivers just need to know road number and general direction. Erik den yngre (talk) 21:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

"The Roman Republic"

• Hi dude. For the record, throughout Roman Empire I cared to capitalize both words "Republic" and "Empire" because they belong in their respective political entity's proper name. However, I found your last edit to be stylistically sound and sensible. Plus, right now I'm in the mood of not sparing words to say I liked it. Ibaman (talk) 11:22, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Salve! That makes sense. Thanks for the explainer, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Syracuse, New York IP editor

Hi there. Regarding that anonymous IP editor who called Ikan Kekek a "jerk", I hope you understand that, by unblocking him provisionally, I did not in any way intend to question your judgment vis-à-vis the original block. Broadly speaking, I of course agree with you that there's no place here for name-calling or for the type of tone that characterized the user's earlier edits. What lay behind my decision to give him another chance was a combination of three factors: 1) the fact that he seemed to be beginning to strike a more constructive tone in his comment at Talk:Syracuse (New York)#The South Side, 2) the fact that, leaving the problems with his tone aside, the substance of his comments actually rings quite true, and 3) the fact that here we have someone with local knowledge that may not be immediately obvious to visitors who's offering a depth of perspective that's not often seen on Wikivoyage, a resource we don't often get the opportunity to take advantage of. Bearing that balance in mind, I think it's fair to allow the user a certain limited span of time to respond to the comments on the talk page - a day or two, I'd say - but if there is no response (or, obviously, in the case of any response that is insulting or snarky), the block should be re-instituted. What do you think? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:16, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I think you probably won't get a response, constructive or otherwise, given the IP's last act was to delete one of the good sections they added. But I like to be proven wrong, and have no problem with your plan.ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:04, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I just want to say, nothing personal on my part, and I'm sorry if I was in the wrong, but to me, his initial edits made it seem like a joke article to me. Considering, for example, that you could easily visit Syracuse intentionally to check out Syracuse University or see an Orangemen game, you didn't probably go there by accident. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!' comment, I was under the impression that the "jerk" remark came first and the talk page message later; I'm seeing now that I had it backwards. That does change things. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:28, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: I don't think you were in the wrong—clearly the IP user was taking the snarky jokes too far. But I also support User:AndreCarrotflower's effort to find the diamond in the rough. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:54, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Just Block Me

I clearly do not know how Wikivoyage works. Please block me, I don’t want to keep getting reverted and have articles like this be protected so fellow IP editors can’t edit. Block me for 24 hours for a 3RR violation per this. I am sick and tired of editors reverting me, and honestly, just block me for 24 hours (or longer if you wish) so I can come back compentent. 2600:387:5:803:0:0:0:8F 17:31, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not going to block you for making a mistake (or even several mistakes). We expect new editors to make mistakes, that's how you learn and get better. But when you're in a dispute with another editor, it's best to talk rather than carry on editing. In your case, this would be easier if you were using a fixed IP address (a shorter one that just contains numbers) or if you set up an account.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

I added an initial block because the request seemed reasonable enough to me. If, TT, you'd like to unblock the user, I understand and I won't re-apply the 24-hour block. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:45, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Never mind, it's done now. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Via Maria

Hi! Can you see it: Via Maria?... is it okay for beginning? I'm still trying to work on it in the future... I based it on the Way of St. James... I welcome all criticism! Fauvirt (talk) 15:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@Fauvirt: Thanks for starting this itinerary. It is currently marked as “outline” as it needs a 7:1 ratio cropped pagebanner, and the layout of the route. But I can help with all of that, and so can TT. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@SelfieCity: Thank you for helping! Fauvirt (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome! I've cropped the pagebanner so it now uses the correct 7:1 ratio. Let me know if there's another pagebanner you would prefer. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:24, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I can see it; it's a good start! I must confess I've never heard of the route, and couldn't find much information about it online in English, so this could be a very valuable article. About the name, is there a reason to prefer the Latin Via Maria than the English Way of Mary? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:25, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't know if that's right here. I chose the Latin name (Via Maria/Mariae) because Austria and Romania use it uniformly... and I also saw it used in a Hungarian publication. But I’m not sure if that’s okay. And thank you for your help too! Fauvirt (talk) 15:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I've added a redirect from Way of Mary to Via Maria, so those who type "Way of Mary" into search will be redirected to the correct article. Thanks for providing the sources for that name, which I think make it the w:WP:COMMONNAME (we don't have a policy on common name, as far as I know). --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:06, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations.Wikivoyage: Naming conventions is our policy, and the relevant bit is "For destinations where multiple names or spellings are in use and there isn't an obviously correct English name, the title should be the most commonly-used name in the local language." This itinerary obviously crosses numerous countries, so there isn't one single local name; in which case Via Maria, as used in at least three countries, works well. The Via x format should also be familiar to most travellers who know something of pilgrimages and European history, so I'm happy.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Fauvirt (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Question: if I write this: "addition to traditional tourist signs and colors, supplemented by symbols of the branches leading to the sealing place and the sacred place and the special viola (purple) color of Mary Road can appear on pilgrimage routes.", it is enough? Or it is better, if I add this too (but to long for me): "addition to traditional tourist signs (horizontal lane for main roads, cross for connecting roads, triangle for vertices or viewpoints, circle for fountain, square for accommodation, omega for cave, L for ruin and circular walkway signs), supplemented by symbols of the branches leading to the sealing and sacred places. The colors (the highest priority and the best known is the blue signal, followed by the red, then the yellow and the green) are also the same, with the special viola (purple) color of Mary Road, which may appear on the pilgrimage routes."? Fauvirt (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The first one is better, but I'm not sure that it's a sentence. I would write something like "In addition to the traditional tourist signs, the Via Maria is sometimes waymarked by special purple signs. Branches leading to the sealing and sacred places have their own symbols." What is a sealing place?

If all those symbols described are applicable to this route, you could put them in a bulleted list rather than a sentence, which is too long, I agree. So:

• Main road - horizontal line
• Connecting roads - cross
• Viewpoint or steep climb - triangle

Or, if you have photos or can take some (if it's safe to go outside in Hungary), we could have a picture gallery of the symbols like the one at Driving in Europe#Rules of the road. It's difficult to describe symbols in a way that everyone can understand (for instance, "cross" could mean an X, or a plus sign +, or something more like a Christian cross), so pictures are often better.

Does that help you? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:07, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Hmm... if so: "In addition to the traditional tourist signs colors, the Via Maria on pilgrimage routes is waymarked by special purple signs. Branches leading to the sealing and sacred places have their own symbols." ?

Sealing place I mean where you get the stamps... not good?...

Hike route signs in Hungary - I ask one of the organizers (I have already contacted him, but because of Pentecost, he asked for time). If yes, let's figure out what to do. (here is a good summary if you are interested) Fauvirt (talk) 19:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure the place where you get your book stamped has a name in English, but I have never been on a pilgrimage. This is the official page about stamps on the Spanish Post Office's portal for pilgrims on the Way of Saint James, and they just say to collect your stamps at the post office. You can also get stamped at hostels, churches, tourist offices etc. I don't think "sealing place" is right though; "sealing" is when you hunt seals (the mammal) for their fur and blubber, so a "sealing place" would be a beach, I guess :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Finally - for now - I wrote that: "Trails leading to sacred locations or to places where documents can be sealed/stamped have their own, additional trail marks", then if anyone knows better, can rewrite it (or I hope so ;o) ) ... do you think i should delete the word "sealed"? Fauvirt (talk) 09:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I think what you've got is okay. Keep up the good work 👍 --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Tangent on naming guidelines: User:SelfieCity, what you were looking for is WV:Naming conventions. Carry on! Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:08, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@SelfieCity: I correct myself: Via Maria is an another pilgrimage in the German-speaking areas (from Altötting to Mariazell)... Fauvirt (talk) 19:49, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@SelfieCity, ThunderingTyphoons!: Can I integrate OpenStreetMap to the pages?... I founded the section maps: ...Mária út M01-19 Zsámbék - Telki - Máriaremete (1715044), Mária út M01-20 (Máriaremete - Makkosmária - Budapest, Szent Anna-rét) (2110962), Mária út M01-21 Budapest, Szent Anna-rét - Vár - Rákosszentmihály (2110961), Mária út M01-22 Budapest-Rákosszentmihály - Máriabesnyő (3528171) ... - can these be somehow brought together? —The preceding comment was added by Fauvirt (talk • contribs)

That's not really my expertise, mate. Hopefully, Selfie City can help you; if not, I suggest posting in the Travellers' pub. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

All right and thanks for the help so far! Fauvirt (talk) 12:30, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure, actually, as my knowledge of dynamic maps isn't as good as some others. @Shaundd: Perhaps you know how this could be incorporated into the article. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

@Fauvirt: This may be what you're looking for: Template:Mapshape#OSM wikidata tags. In short, OSM relations can be included by linking them with Wikidata. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mx. Granger: oh, thank you! I found more routes (here collected) if more than one property can be entered I think it can work! *hope* Fauvirt (talk) 14:27, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

ah, noooo "single value constraint" :o( Fauvirt (talk) 14:36, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

I see there's already links between OSM (relations for the M01 setion and M02 section) and the Wikidata page (Q1212209). So, including {{mapshape|wikidata=Q1212209|type=geoline}} should make the trail appear on the dynamic map... but it doesn't. Looking at OSM, the trail doesn't appear on the map of the relation that Wikidata links to, so maybe there's an error on the OSM side? Another thing is the Wikidata page lists two OSM relations so perhaps that confuses the {{mapshape}} template? I'm afraid I don't have much in the way of solutions. -Shaundd (talk) 15:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shaundd: Thank you! I already wrote to Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub‎#‎OpenStreetMap and on Hungarian hu:Wikipédia:Kocsmafal (egyéb)#OpenStreetMap "szakértő" kerestetik... maybe ... (me, the problematic beginner ...) Fauvirt (talk) 15:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

WV:Units

• Hey TT, just for the record, I always think "kilometers" and "kilometres" are too long and ugly words for a travel guide (and prone for edit warring). I always edit these to "km" and/or use the template. Asking with the best humor, am I being too nitpicky again? Ibaman (talk) 16:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi. No, you're not; I agree with you. I made several changes in my edit across that massive Go next section, but there was an edit conflict with you, so I heroically and selflessly copied and pasted my edits over the top of yours 😏 All the "kilometres" should be gone now, though... ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Gary Airport

I made a couple edits to Chicago and so did you. But then, in this revision, you revered it. English Wikipedia is not always right. In that case you still need to mention Rockford Airport. If it is due to the current pandemic then that will end eventually(in winter/spring 2021)and flights will resume. Also, according to the MTA(at least as of Nov. 2014)LaGuardia is considered a NYC Airport. I mean it’s complicated, and there is 3 airports-LaGuardia, JFK, and Newark according to this link, but still. I feel like I have lost my voice in Wikivoyage. I am taking a momentary break. Thank you. My break begins one minute after 14:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC) and this was made by 107.77.224.13 on behalf of the entire range of 2600:387:5:800::/61. 107.77.224.13 14:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is right on this occasion, though, isn't it? Gary Airport is listed on our Gary page as being for general aviation. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what you're getting at. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!:I am not sure what exactly you are saying, but this is my last message. TTYL(in this case the “later is in February”. Email me at guttmana9@icloud.com if you have questions. The IPv4 IP address I used was not supposed to be. It was supposed to be this IPv6. 107.77.224.13. My last message was added by 107.77.224.13 at 16:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC). Thank you. 107.77.224.13 16:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, take care.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Star articles

Following the discussion at Wikivoyage:Star nominations, I've upgraded York to star status. Would you be interested in writing the lede at Wikivoyage:Star articles? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you, mate. I think I'll just use the first paragraph of the article's lede; if someone wants to improve on that, they can.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:59, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Greek restaurant in Baker, California

Thanks for taking the time to find out the real situation! Why would it be confusing to write "temporarily closed due to COVID-19 pandemic"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:50, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

That wouldn't be as confusing but (a) experience has taught that it might not get updated for an embarrassingly long period after the pandemic is over (b) a majority of our listings are or have been closed due to the pandemic, but we haven't put notes on all of them. How many restaurants are or were closed in your part of Manhattan; most or all of them, right? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

I did some research and found that a restaurant with the same name in Ohio was permanently closed and I thought the two might have been confused somehow. But apparently you guys have already realized what the actual confusion was about. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

For whatever reason, "The Mad Greek" seems to be a common name for Greek restaurants in the anglosphere. Maybe it's self-awareness...--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:19, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Many restaurants in New York closed temporarily during this period and some are still closed, but some stayed open for takeout and in some cases, delivery, while others reopened more recently. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:38, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Same here. I guess that's been a fairly universal experience in most countries.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:45, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

In Florida a shorter lockdown has made it necessary for restaurants to open early to give them a chance to compete with other restaurants that are also open, but unfortunately for them a group of early tropical storms and thunderstorms have kept many people indoors. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 11:31, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Soest

Good joke! Have fun in your own reality. Best greetings from --Bubo 容 19:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Bubo bubo: It's not "my" reality - I've never edited that article before - and Wikivoyage is not a joke to me. If you read the article, you'll see that Soest is breadcrumbed under that region. If that's not correct, I'd rather it was changed. Which region of North Rhine Westphalia should it be under, in your opinion? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

OK, no offense. --Bubo 容 20:12, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

"Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty"

Many rural areas of England seem to have this title, such as Mendips. Would these be considered parks or rural areas, do you think? It's sometimes difficult to determine the difference between rural areas and parks and this is a good example.

If these areas have "staging areas" — which may be an American name, and means parking, restroom, picnic benches, etc. — and hiking trails (public footpaths included, I guess), I would consider them parks, but if "Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty" is a designation for environmental reasons rather than with the goal of creating recreation areas, these areas of outstanding natural beauty could be called rural areas.

--Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:11, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. They could be either, really. In the UK, "AONB" and "national park" are conservation designations, designed to stop certain kinds of development within the area's boundaries. AONBs have less strict development rules is all, because I guess on the sliding scale of landscapes worth preserving, they're second-tier. But there are still towns, villages and farms in every AONB and national park; they're not like the wilderness areas of the U.S. with no human residents, entry fees, restricted access etc. There's nothing like that in the UK. Thus, "staging areas", or what you will, aren't needed because there are pubs, cafés and restaurants! Still, they are nationally-recognised beauty spots, and some like the Cotswolds are world-famous for tourism. All have extensive public footpaths and bridleways (trails for walkers, bicycles and horses, but not motor vehicles), but that's nothing special in the UK, as these exist in every city, town and area of countryside.

In Wikivoyage terms, designating AONBs as parks might make more sense, because most of them will have city articles under them; my understanding of rural area articles is that they're on the same level as city articles, and which they replace in function.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I've understood park articles should always be at the bottom of the hierarchy, just like cities? If the areas include cities big enough to have their own articles, I think they should be classified as region articles. Ypsilon (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I'll leave AONB regions as park type articles rather than rural areas. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:16, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ypsilon: I don't know whether you're right about park articles or not, but the UK articles in question would have to be extraregions, if not parks or rural areas.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe best to decide it on a case by case basis. Ypsilon (talk) 19:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Iamia

Hi dude. The cottage listing is really an aggregator, and about 10 km away at other village, which I felt better removed. Check out the article's history; the IP tried to insert several things from different villages here. Just for the record. Ibaman (talk) 20:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Hiya. I can see the history, which was certainly counterproductive, possibly caused by newbie error, but can't see any touting. This doesn't look like an aggregator to me, but rather a small complex of holiday cottages on the same site. Perhaps it shouldn't be listed in Iamia if there's a more appropriate article, but where else would be better? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Reply to your email

If that’s the case, then I won’t take any further action. The lack of edit summaries and travel relevant content, like listings, were my main concerns, and I can mention edit summaries on the editor’s talk page. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:35, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Fine. I must admit, I didn't have time to scrutinise the person's whole edit history; I just looked at the diffs you sent.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:35, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

I ended up leaving a welcome message and mentioned the edit summary issue.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:52, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

That's fair enough. I know that your time on WV is limited (and so is mine — the lockdown has given me more time than usual) and I'm definitely not advocating that we should block or even warn this user for edits that are made in mostly, if not all good faith. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:57, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Telling people to wash their hands

Transiting at the Taipei airport in late march, the day that Taiwan closed its borders to foreigners, and two days before Vietnam Airlines cancelled all international flights, I was amazed to see men leaving the toilets without washing their hands. As much as I'd like to live in a world where it isn't necessary to remind people to wash their hands, I don't think we live in that world. Ground Zero (talk) 13:53, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

I know what you mean, but those same people aren't suddenly going to wash their hands because we tell them to. Just like some people will never use protection when having sex, and others carry on smoking 50 a day regardless of the gruesome pictures on the packet.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Readers don't follow all of our advice to the letter? I am shocked! We're so sensible though. (It's not a big deal for me. We can leave it out.) Ground Zero (talk) 17:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

London tours

I see you deleted Tour of London Museums by User:Belder International Travel as "no useful content or test". On one hand the itinerary title suggests a "personal itinerary" and the user name suggests it would be touting of own tours, but on the other one cannot judge the contents of a less-than-a-day old outline and one should not treat somebody open on who they are worse than if they were silent on it.

I think we should give quite a thorough explanation on the user talk page, not just have the page disappear with a less suitable standard comment. Is there something I did not see or something in our guidelines or practice I am not aware of?

--LPfi (talk) 11:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi. There's nothing more to it than what you understand, but there was literally no content at all. They created the page, listed it as an itinerary, and left. I don't think someone who starts a page but can't be bothered to even write a first sentence deserves a "thorough explanation" for why it gets deleted. Minimum input, minimum output. Yes, I could have left it a couple of days to see if the user would come back, but then the onus is on me to remember to check up on it at a later date, when frankly I've got better things to do. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, a general problem. A "remind me after three days" button would be very useful. --LPfi (talk) 13:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

It certainly would. For something more important, I'd set a calendar reminder on my phone.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

@LPfi: It seems I was wrong about the user's intentions. I'll learn my lesson and hang back to see how the article develops, though it looks to me like a personal itinerary that will just end up duplicating content found in London's district articles.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:56, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Wow, that article is textbook toutism, pure propaganda of a private operator. "Our tour starts (...)" and promotional shit and such. It shall not stand. Ibaman (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Wait, Ibaman. I googled the username out of interest and there doesn't seem to be a tour operator by that name. If it is touting, they're not doing so under their business name.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Fair enough. I copyedited the annoying 1st person prose bits out of it. Ibaman (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Routebox

Hi, I saw you reverted my edit to the Bristol routebox and added a 6th entry to the routebox. However since Bristol only has ~460k inhabitants, doing so violates the routebox policy which states that "destinations under 1 million people should generally not exceed 5 listings". So my motivation for replacing one of the existing listings was to avoid violating policy. 87.74.178.74 17:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I see, thanks for explaining. That's a very odd policy, which I'll admit I wasn't aware of and will advocate removing. There are plenty of cities (certainly in the UK) which exceed that limit.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:34, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I posted on Wikivoyage talk:Routebox navigation, if you'd like to comment. Regards, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:04, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

It was not my intent to stir up trouble or change existing policies, I only wanted to explain why I opted to replace rather than add an entry. But since we're anyway on that topic: the listing order doesn't specify the ordering of NCN entries, so do you add them chronologically to the list or just insert them at random? 87.74.178.74 19:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Hey, it's no trouble at all. Changing policy through community discussion is not a big deal on Wikivoyage, and happens all the time. You're not expected to take part in that discussion (although you're more than welcome to) and if anything I'm glad that attention has been drawn to that line in the policy.

Most logical would be to put the NCN boxes in numerical order, lowest number first, though really any order that you think works is better than a random jumble. Have a good night, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:15, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Continued experimenting this morning and added the most important connections to the Bristol routebox. 2 questions you might be able to help with:

1. how do I sort the entries so that the rail connections are on top (as per policy page)?
2. why does the GWR logo display correctly but the CrossCountry logo doesn't? —The preceding comment was added by 87.74.178.74 (talk • contribs)

Yes, I can answer those questions:

1. Two ways to do this. One option is to create a new routebox template for the railways and place it above the existing one. This leads to two separate boxes, which leads to the kinda clunky repetition of "Routes through (city)", but helps to separate longer lists, as in London/City of London. The other option, to keep them all in one box, is easy but long-winded: change the numbers around so that the boxes that start with image1=, image2=, image3= are the railways, image=4 through to image=8 are the roads, and image=9 is the cycle path. Every number for a single entry needs to match, otherwise the box will glitch.
2. The reason for this is that Greater west railw logo.svg is on Wikimedia Commons, whereas File:CrossCountryTrains.svg is uploaded locally to Wikipedia, due to copyright restrictions. There is quite a high probability that the GWR logo will be deleted from Commons in the future due to being copyvio. I note it is also very dark against the background, and not easy to see. My favoured option with GB railways is to use the copyright-free British Rail arrow logo for all services, which stands out well and is familiar to all rail travellers in Britain. If you need to specify the train operator, you can always add an additional argument to the routebox wikicode: caption1=(name of operator); the name will then appear in a balloon when you mouse over the logo.

Hopefully this is all understandable. Regards, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, I fixed the icons in the Bristol article and sorted the entries by changing the indices. Is there a page with tips and tricks where this kind of guidelines (or rules of thumb) are summarised? Might be useful to other users as well to know where to find the British Rail logo on Commons. 87.74.178.74 13:20, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

They're looking good; thanks for doing them! I'm not aware of a routebox help page beyond the one you know about already.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:18, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

An award for you!

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	I just read the Stratford-upon-Avon article, and the quotes are a great touch. What a delightful theme for that article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:04, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Hey @Mx. Granger: I'm glad you liked it :) Thank you for the barncompass.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

My congratulations as well. A really nice touch for the hometown of "an upstart Crow, beautified with our feathers" (Robert Greene). Ground Zero (talk) 16:03, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

On foot

You said: "We normally use 'On foot', both on WV and in English generally". I don't know about English usage, but Wikivoyage:Article skeleton templates/Sections#Get in says "By foot". I imagined we use "By" for consistency. If we do not, the heading should be changed there and at possible other places. –LPfi (talk) 10:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I've just looked at about 15 huge city articles (mostly capitals, all major metropolises), and of the ones which have a walking section, there isn't consistency, though 'On foot' seems to be a majority:

• "By foot": London, Tokyo, Sydney
• "On foot": Paris, Barcelona, New York City, Buenos Aires, Singapore, Rome, Montreal, Kuala Lumpur.

Perhaps this is better as a discussion on Wikivoyage talk:Article skeleton templates/Sections, where indeed it was already discussed in 2014.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Question about a revert

Hi ThunderingTyphoons!, why did you revert these edits[1][2]? To me they looked like someone adding a good restaurant listing (admittedly with a couple of typos) and removing several closed listings. Looking online, I can't find any indication that any of the deleted listings still exist. Am I missing something? —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:44, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, mate.

To me, it looked like someone removed some listings without comment, and added a semi-touty ("the best in town") listing in their place. It did occur to me to check whether those places were still open or not, but I decided I couldn't be bothered because all it would have taken was a two-word edit summary - "all closed" - from the original editor. I shouldn't have to guess someone's intention.

There has been quite a lot of attempted touting today, but if you think I've been too harsh on this occasion, then go ahead and revert, I won't cry about it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree it would have been better for them to use an edit summary, but of course a new user may not know that that's expected of them. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:13, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

What's up with this edit?

What's wrong with it? It's not vandalism or anything, is it? I will not revert your edit, but I'm just kinda curious. Thanks, --Prahlad balaji (talk) 17:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

That is a very long-term vandal who we call Telstra (after the internet provider (s)he uses or used). For something like 10 years now, he or she has been adding useless or unreliable content to articles all over Wikivoyage on an almost daily basis. Individual edits certainly don't look harmful, but when you look at the entire edit history, made by countless burner accounts, you see thousands of red links, empty new articles, and non-sequitur or incorrect sentences. If they weren't reverted on sight as they are, would litter almost every article on Wikivoyage. When you have spent literally years handling a certain vandal, you get pretty good at identifying them on sight based on their tells; for the edit in question, the addition of a redlink by a brand new account with that type of username (surname and numbers) were enough to tell me that this was the Telstra vandal. Strictly speaking, I should have blocked the account, but since it will only be used once (the next edit will be with a new account), there's not much point.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:44, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. --Prahlad balaji (talk) 17:55, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome. Happy to be of use.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:02, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Possible telstra sock

Does this look like one? Thanks, --Prahlad balaji (talk) 18:13, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Possibly, but there are no contributions yet.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

It's been blocked, but for an entirely different reason.

Thank you

Hi, ThunderingTyphoons! Thank you very much for help! Bonzg (talk) 12:02, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Reverting IP edits by 46.233.112.44

Care to explain those rollbacks? The edits appear non malicious to me...Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

• It's block evasion by Artic Cynda, that's what it is. Ibaman (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Precisely that.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I see. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikitravel

I don't understand, why would someone want to be a part of that other site instead of this one, especially after he made all those contributions here? He seemed like an expert on Indonesia. Lazarus1255 (talk) 19:33, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi. He hasn't made any contributions here. When Wikivoyage forked from Wikitravel, everything that was on Wikitravel at the time of the fork (late 2012) was copied onto the Wikivoyage servers. That included every travel guide article, every user page and every user's contribution history prior to the fork. Users who took part in the fork mostly migrated their accounts over here, but users who either chose to stay behind or became inactive prior to the fork didn't migrate their accounts. However, because our copyleft licence requires us to credit every contributor to an article, all those who edited Wikitravel from its inception until 2012 had their user pages and contribution history copied to Wikivoyage, regardless of whether the person decided to move to Wikivoyage. All of these pages are marked as "User:(WT-en)" to show us that these are not active accounts, merely records of accounts that, by virtue of contributing to Wikitravel prior to the fork, have made some contribution to Wikivoyage's history. Some of their edits are doubtlessly still live, even in 2020, although this will become less and less likely over time. I hope this makes more sense? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I see now. Thanks! That really fills in the gaps. Well, that's good Wikivoyage was able to make use of those contributions that had been made before anyway. Thank you for explaining it all to me. Lazarus1255 (talk) 23:03, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

greetings

it would be good to know what that entails. There are issues in the current state of the project on english wikipedia tasmania that are very problematic - so as long as there is no necessary connection to some recent editing egnlish wikipedia wise - I am very interested, as the voyage part of life is sadly neglected this last few years... You are kind to offer, I just need to get a handle in being back in the saddle and making sure the boots are on the right way and the stirrupsareontheright way around, and I can make the distiction between the camel head from the camel tail... shukran, salaam and the rest...JarrahTree (talk) 23:54, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

Your insights were really valuable, dude, I stand obliged for your enlightening help. I won't ignore those features again. Very good heads-up. High-five to ya Ibaman (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Glad you found it helpful :) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:23, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Rollback

Definitely accidental. Thanks for fixing it. Ground Zero (talk) 22:00, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Moving Along a Star Article

Howdy! After 2 years in limbo I decided to plunge forward and make the Farnborough article a star. I've done all the steps (save editing the star map image because I don't have the assets or knowhow) however I am unable to remove the discussion from the star nominations page. The spambot believes that I am blanking. Which, I mean, fair enough lol. Just a heads up that the content needs removing still as I am unable to do it! SpartanFishy (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Funny joke I tried publishing one last time after starting this discussion and it went through. False alarm! SpartanFishy (talk) 19:21, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Nice one, and thank you for doing the honours :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:26, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd believe to update the map, you'd have to download it, plop a new star in Farnborough's location using some graphics software (ideally something fancy, but even Powerpoint would be capable of this), then reupload the new map to Commons. Seems simple enough, but quite often there are unforeseen issues that make simple jobs much more complicated; for this, I'd imagine getting the new star symbol to look enough like the others that you don't have to change the whole lot could be a challenge. Not something I'd blame you for skipping! All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:35, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Message of thanks

I'm just writing to thank you for all the work you do for the project, every time (not often) I cruise the recent changes list you're faithfully there cleaning up after well intending editors and pranksters alike. Your hard work does not go unnoticed. --Billbarrelrider (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Well thanks very much Bill. Glad to see the barrel's still rolling ;) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Help required

User Nieuwsgierige Gebruiker has reverted my edits to the Bhutan page and then removed my request placed on his user page to explain why. Could you intervene? Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by 119.2.103.56 (talk • contribs)

Thank you

Thank you ThunderingTyphoons for unblocking me. I really appreciate your intervention. I was just trying to update some information on Bhutan and then one contributor reverted the entire edit. Then, while asking for help, I was blocked. Anyway, it's no big deal. I also act too hastily most of the time. By the way, the reason I left the empty space with the bullet point was not due to vandalism, but inexperience in editing. I would have cleaned it up later. 119.2.103.56 18:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:51, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

New pages

Hi I have created three new pages, Holbury, Fawley and Calshot, however I don't think they are up to scratch as they have next to no info. Since you are both from Hampshire and an admin on this Wiki, I thought you'd be the best person to help me. 82.3.185.12 09:42, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to Wikivoyage. It depends what you mean by help. If you you want guidance on how to get going with a half-decent article, then you can look at the links that I'm going to post to your talk page right after I've finished here. If you have specific questions you want to ask, I'm more than happy to help you. Or if you want someone to look over the three articles once you've had a good go at filling them out, I'm also happy to do that. But if by "help", you actually mean 'take over writing the articles', as I kind of suspect you might, I'm afraid I'm not going to do that, and I don't think you'll find anyone else willing to do so. Let me know, and we'll proceed from there. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:00, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't mean you take over, I mean we work together as a team, with you giving me help on how to create a good article, and you only stepping in to help now and then. 82.3.185.12 09:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, that's good. You're very welcome to carry on expanding those articles if you want to.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:30, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I think I've done all I can, I don't know how to edit Wikipedia anyway. 82.3.185.12 09:34, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

User:82.3.185.12: I've added some material to Calshot. It's pretty easy, even from my sofa in Toronto. I borrowed some text from the Calshot Wikipedia article, and looked up Calshot on Google Maps -- that led me to adding a cafe and the bus to get there. Why don't you give it a try for the other villages? What do you think about combining the three articles into one since the places are pretty small? It might make a more useful article. Ground Zero (talk) 10:24, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Fawley/Holbury/Calshot

I'm back and I have improved them, however I have done all I can do, merge them with Hythe if you like. 82.3.185.12 09:14, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Bluebird Cafe, Calshot

Hi, I have added the latitude and longitude for the Bluebird Cafe in Calshot, but it has not appeared on the map so I believe I have done it wrong. Can you come take a look? 82.3.185.12 09:16, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi. It looks to me like you did it right. I can see an orange 'eat' marker with a number 1 in the south-western corner of the map. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

What about the other things I've done to it because I'm sure they're wrong. And I've messed up Holbury as well. 82.3.185.12 09:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Like what? The only thing 'wrong' with those articles is they could do with more information, but that comes with time. What's there already is good. And you can't mess up on a wiki, because everything can be changed (or changed back, if necessary), so don't worry about making mistakes.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I've put Template:Merge on two of the articles. 82.3.185.12 09:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Fawley, Holbury and Calshot

Hi, ThunderingTyphoons, I've had an idea for the articles Fawley, Holbury and Calshot but I don't know if its possible. Could we merge Fawley and Holbury together and merge Calshot with Hythe? 82.3.185.12 09:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Added Template:Merge to those articles. 82.3.185.12 09:52, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Because Fawley and Holbury are between Calshot and Hythe, that might be a bit confusing. What do you think would be the advantage of doing it like that? All three could potentially merge into Hythe, or we could merge Fawley and Holbury into Hythe and keep Calshot separate. There's still Exbury gardens and Lepe beach / nature reserve that could be added to Calshot, so that article could perhaps stand on its own merits.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:14, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I think that we should merge Holbury and Fawley in one article and keep Calshot. I was thinking of adding Lepe Beach to the Calshot article, but I wasn't sure whether that would be things to do or things to see. 82.3.185.12 10:18, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Feel free to contribute to the Holbury talk page for the proposed merge there. And if you want to contribute to Lepe Beach on Calshot, then you can add that information. 82.3.185.12 10:22, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I will add Lepe and Exbury, but not right away.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:34, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: I've done Lepe for you. If you click on this link, you can see what I've been doing here recently. 82.3.185.12 13:51, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for helping me! I saw that you had a barnstar and thought I'd give you a second one. 82.3.185.12 14:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	This Barncompass is for helping me creating those new articles. I also saw you were collecting them. 82.3.185.12 14:14, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Well thank you :-) I only collect what people kindly give me. Merry Christmas, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:10, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: I've also done my 100th edit just now, you can see my list of contributions if you want to. Merry Christmas! (PS I replied to the message you put on my talk page). 82.3.185.12 15:16, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Here's to the next 100.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! 82.3.185.12 15:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: I reached 150 edits six hours after I got to 100, so it shouldn't be too long until I've passed 200. 82.3.185.12 11:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Outer Boroughs

I consider that a proper noun (I wouldn't have capitalized it, otherwise), but I don't think it's official and Wikipedia uses lowercase in w:Boroughs of New York City, so we can follow suit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:50, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I suppose I considered it like capitalising "the Suburbs" or "the Inner City", which we'd probably both agree was wrong. If you think it looks better capitalised, I don't mind.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

No, like I said, we can use lowercase. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:23, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year, ThunderingTyphoons!

Happy New Year! ThunderingTyphoons!,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikivoyage.
82.3.185.12^(T) 18:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I saw this on Wikipedia and just had to try it here! 82.3.185.12 19:00, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

@82.3.185.12: Pretty cool. Happy new year to you too! The below errors on lat and long were mistakes, but thanks for fixing them.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:18, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Camberley (in Farnborough) was in Africa?!

@ThunderingTyphoons!: I have recently corrected the Farnborough article, as up until a few moments ago, Camberley was just off the coast of Ghana?! See my change at the relevant Difference between revisions log. I don't know why this was here and just thought I'd bring it up with you. 82.3.185.12 20:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I found the revision where this was added, it was back in September 2018, so this mistake has been there for over two years?! 82.3.185.12 21:00, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Fordingbridge in France?!

Hi, ever since your revision on December the 27th, Fordingbridge has been located in France on the Hampshire article. I have since fixed it, however I don't know why you put in in France or if it was intentional or not. I just wanted to let you know that I have found and corrected this problem. 82.3.185.12 14:38, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Public transit fares in Germany

Hi there. First of all, "S-Bahn" actually stands for "Stadtschnellbahn" with the "S" likely referring to the "schnell" part. At any rate, within a w:de:Verkehrsverbund, the fare is usually mode neutral. Meaning that the fare is the same whether you use a bus, a train or something else between two given points... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It says Stadtbahn in the Düsseldorf article, but maybe that refers to something else. The "fast city railway" seems a bit of an odd name for an urban train with frequent stops, though perhaps not as bad as all the local trains in France being branded train express régional. Still, who really cares about the branding when there's a genuinely multimodal transport network with proper fare integration? It's almost like a service run for the convenience of the public, which can't be right.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:52, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

A w:de:Stadtbahn is used in German (except of course for the "Berlin Stadtbahn" which well predates that term and the Vienna Stadtbahn where... it's complicated) for a tram that's been "upgraded". Usually with tunnel sections, but cities such as Erfurt or Dresden have gotten to calling their trams "Stadtbahn" without any tunnel sections whatsoever. Of course the abbreviation of Stadtbahn is usually an U to insinuate it being an U-Bahn... Unless of course you are in Karlsruhe where an S is used, but then the overland stretches of the Karlsruhe tram-train have S-Bahn like characteristics. Confused yet? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Ish :) I think I also recall that local trains in the Ortenau are also called an S-Bahn, even though it's quite a rural area and it was just a normal service with no rapid transit elements. At least the UK's (relatively few) metro or tram systems have markedly different names from one another.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:21, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

yes, S-Bahn is a popular "brand". The initial systems in Hamburg and Berlin are third rail electrified have stations relatively close together and frequent departures. The "second generation" of S-Bahn systems in the 1970s at least have a tunnel underneath an otherwise dead end station (Munich, Stuttgart, later Leipzig) and a (very) frequently served trunk line. But increasingly S-Bahn lines have been "created" by just slapping a different name on a pre existing regional service. Such as Nuremberg "S5" which has two stops and used to be called "Allersberg Express". By the way, the S-Bahn "brand" also exists in places like the Czech republic or Denmark, where nobody is really sure what the S means... Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:08, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Makes sense. A number of ordinary transport services use "Metro" as a brand to create the illusion of an improved service. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:20, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

IPBE requirement

Hello ThunderingTyphoons, how are you? I have a friend name User:南渔晚舟. She comes from China mainland, due to the Great Firewall block of the government, she has to use open proxy to visit Wikimedia websites. Now, she wants to edit Wikivoyage so she needs an IPBE. She has tried to require the GIPBE in Meta [3]. And they tell her that Wikivoyage could grant IPBE locally. But English Wikivoyage doesn't have a permissions requirement page, so she tries to contact the admin of Wikivoyage. And, the user talk page is also blocked for her. So she asks me to help her. Could you please grant IPBE for her? Thank you very much.--瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 16:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello @瑞丽江的河水: Does "IPBE" mean "IP block exempt"? If so, I have just granted your friend that.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:03, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes! It's IP block exempt. Thank you so much!--瑞丽江的河水 (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

No problem. Have a good weekend :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:09, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Possible vandalism on the Llanfairpwllgwyngyll article

Two IPv6 addresses, namely 2A00:23C7:DD06:1F01:F12C:AE1F:9B33:C71 (talk) and 2A00:23C7:DD06:1F01:7073:32AF:F9E5:1037 (talk) have made edits that appear unconstructive to the Llanfairpwllgwyngyll page. If you look at their contribution pages, you can see that those are the only edits they have made. I believe that these two users are the same person. Should these edits be considered as good faith or should they be given a warning? 82.3.185.12 17:34, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi. We always assume good faith, until proven otherwise. It may be the case that people who live there don't use "Llanfair PG", and that's fine, but this is a travel guide and Llanfair PG is widely in the tourism industry and by e.g. English people who can't pronounce or spell Llanfairpwllgwyngyll.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:40, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I see. Well, thank you TT! 82.3.185.12 17:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Yachts

I was trying to add commercial listing since this page already is doing so - if we are not allowed nobody should be - please delete all charter company listing and links Maritim-alpha (talk) 11:27, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi. I agree with you and will delete all of the listings if there are no further comments at Talk:Croatia. Thanks. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:33, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Impatient disrespect

If I had been allowed to go to the bathroom and return to do just that, I actually would've done that, as it was, in fact, a piece that I was about to post that would've been an actually accurate small bio of the man. So, yeah, thanks for being rude and disrespectful to me and giving me all of what? 3 minutes to complete an "assignment" that I was unaware was on a time table. Since you have the offensive terminity to speak to me as if I was an idiot child, (and now I'll return the exact treatment and manner unto you), as you have proven to not deserve respect nor politeness from me, that I reserve for my equals or betters. I would suggest to you, that you learn something relatively new, (it's not new to those actually intelligent people who have discovered that true wisdom doesn't come from being obstinate or brash and rude to someone who is relatively unknown, (which does unfortunately make most people ignorant of certain facts), but that it comes from patience from within silence). To speak, before fulfillment, is to expose the ignorance within, To be silent, attaining fulfillment, is to learn of something through quiet contemplation and listening. Next time try maybe approaching someone to see if the link that was intentionally placed was in fact legitimate and short order being given some sort of basis to exist upon. And if you have the slightest pea sized brain in your fool head, you will most definitely NOT speak to me in the manner in which you did before. You are neither my friend, nor my teacher, nor my mother and that precludes you from certain latitudes, do not overstep with me again, EVER, little one. Kmesander (talk) 10:52, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Hello @Kmesander: I'm sorry my comment upset you in such a way, and wouldn't have worded it the way I did had I thought it would. As an administrator here, my role is to keep an eye on recent edits and undo or fix any that don't seem to improve the travel guide, which is why I undid your edit. I didn't approach that with any presumptions about our "relationship", because we don't have one, and my intention wasn't to be disrespectful, rather lighthearted and direct at the same time. I don't really appreciate the tone of your message, but can understand that you were feeling disrespected when you wrote it, for which I apologise. Can we move past this as a misunderstanding and treat each other respectfully from now on? All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:11, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

April 1st

What about the "Middisland"?

Essentially it's a 'world' building exercise for a 5th 'fictional' constituent of the United Kingdom located where the Dogger Bank is.

Influences are essentially a combination of British, Danish and Dutch.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Middisland

Middisland is the fifth constituent of the United Kingdom, having been so since the 13th century, previously having been under nominal Saxon and Viking rule.

The major port cites of Westport, and Northmouth link Middisland with the United Kingdom; Denmark and Low Countries. There is a regular ferry service with frequent sailings to Hull and Harwich. Although plans existed for a channel tunnel style link in the 1970's. perceived "geological difficulties"

Despite the low lying nature of portions of the Middisland, the region is exceptionally fertile, and agricultural exports form a good proportion of the countries economy. Eel fishing along the coast is highly prized, and modern 'hover-dogs' have replaced earlier fishing skiffs used for this, as they can rapidly travese the changing flats of the Middis

See:

• "Northmouth" Cathedral.
• Hove-Dogge Heratige and Visitors centere
• Norsen - The viking experience.

@ShakespeareFan00: I have added this to the April Fool's suggestions page. 82.3.185.12 15:51, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00, 82.3.185.12: - Sorry for the slow reply. At the moment, I'm taking a short wikibreak so am not really engaged, but I think it's a good call to move the idea to the main April Fools discussion, so thanks for doing that. I'll be back on WV soon, possibly over the weekend or next week. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Lamburger

I've seen that on menus in New York for years, for what it's worth. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah, okay; it's no biggie. Perhaps not seen over here because the term "hamburger" itself is less common (and some older people like my dad assume a hamburger is made from ham). I do wonder whether user:Pashley intentionally rolled back my edit, or whether it was just a finger slip.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:06, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm guessing it was a finger slip, because I'd expect him to give a reason in an edit summary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:10, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

It was intentional. When I was in India (1970s), menus spelled it as one word & travellers pronounced it that way. Pashley (talk) 09:32, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Sherbrooke

Sorry, I clicked the wrong user user link and did not check. –LPfi (talk) 12:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Okie-dokie!--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:01, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Less active

Hi TT, just to give you a heads-up, I might be a bit less active for a few months as I have recently returned to school. I will still try to edit at least once every two weeks if I can. :) 82.3.185.12 15:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

No worries, just help out when you can :) School is more important than Wikivoyage. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! 82.3.185.12 16:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

10,000th edit

I was reading your userpage and I read about your 10,000th edit. I checked it out and saw that the revisions have been deleted. Just to let you know. 82.3.185.12 17:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Yep, that's WV:Deny recognition.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah. 82.3.185.12 07:35, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

KevRobbAU

You really think he should be an autopatroller? I am not patrolling his edits, but in view of the way things went in this thread and his attempts to attack me on the Wikivoyage Facebook page as engaging in administrator abuse just for having a discussion with him, I don't consider him a trusted user, and I'd feel better if someone were patrolling all his edits, even if it's not you, so I would strongly suggest rescinding your promotion of his account to autopatroller. Should he find this thread and want to address me, I will not discuss anything with him - ever - unless he apologizes for his ridiculous accusations and actions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:41, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Hiya. Not being omniscient (yet!), I wasn't aware that the litter bin dispute had gone so far, and also don't use our Facebook page so have no idea what he may have said there. I promoted him in February, before any of that happened and after several months of good contributions, but if new information has come to light that shows I was too trusting, then it's not a problem to put him back to unpatrolled.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:01, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Understood. I'd prefer not to take the action myself, though. I don't want to have anything to do with him in any way. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:39, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

No worries, I'll sort it. I just suddenly realised I was late for my Spanish lesson so didn't have time before.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:40, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Cool that you're studying Spanish. How many languages do you speak? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:58, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Not as many as I'd like to with more time! I have a degree in French, and am actively learning Spanish and, my lockdown project, Welsh. Have studied beginners' Dutch (remember a lot) and Russian (complete waste of time because I was 18 and an idiot).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:45, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to chime in but if you look at his contributions en le français wikipedia. He's nowhere near good as well as adding factual errors. [4] which leads me to question his edits on WV. Are they true or does that also contain incorrect info? SHB2000 (talk) 05:30, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I did know that he was banned from French Wikipedia for adding grammatical errors, but I think they were way too quick to ban him and am not sure it has any bearing on his edits to Wikivoyage since it was over two years ago.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, in most of his articles he's written, I've noticed that his formatting is incorrect and the way he's written it is confusing. (E.g. Manilla St/B95 is not the same as Manilla St (B95). The street name is more prominent and route numbers are not written on local streets. As well as route numbers are for major hwys only. (e.g. A39 = Newell Highway, and we don't stress the route number in local street names, like Whylandra Street (For examples sake) is not written as A39 Whylandra Street but just Whylandra Street.) Sorry if this sounds confusing but it is unique to Australia with the exceptions of Victoria. SHB2000 (talk) 10:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Furthermore, what he did to Ikan Kekek wasn't okay at all. SHB2000 (talk) 10:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect formatting of road names is something you should raise with him, as I don't know what's correct and what isn't. Given the ongoing dispute and involvement of the Arbitration Committee, I don't think it would be helpful at the moment for another northern hemisphere admin to try to push a point of style on him; as a fellow Aussie, you may have more success. That said, if for some reason his reaction is combative rather than receptive, you can always drop me a line or if I'm not around post at Wikivoyage talk:Administrators, and someone will help.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:32, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to be abused by him, considering he has auto patrolled rights and I do not. SHB2000 (talk) 11:17, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

He doesn't have auto-patrolled rights; these were taken away. However, "auto-patroller" doesn't really mean anything and is just a way for more experienced users to quickly spot edits by new, newish (like yourself), and unregistered contributors, or any other user whose edits may need closer attention.

I can't see there's reason for him to abuse you. But if he does you can tell me or another administrator and we will stop him.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh, so that's what auto patroller edits mean. SHB2000 (talk) 10:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

500th edit

Hey TT, me adding this to your talk page is my 500th edit! Is 'extended-confirmed' a thing on Wikivoyage? If so, I have just achieved the requirements to get this. Please can you award me this status? 82.3.185.12 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi there. Congratulations on the big 500 :) Two things regarding user status:

1. No, 'extended confirmed' is not a thing on Wikivoyage;

2. As an IP user, you're not eligible for any additional user rights, and it's not even possible to grant you any. If you wanted autopatrolled, patroller or even admin rights in the future, you'd need to create an account.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. 82.3.185.12 16:44, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't think the things you put on WV:Why register were necessary because

1) It's obvious on the page

2) It is clear on the Wikipedia requirements

3) It is obvious IPs are not accounts

The only reason I asked you was because I didn't know that page existed. 82.3.185.12 19:39, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I added that information because it will help people. What I wrote is not obvious to everyone, and the details are not implied by what is already there. What's written on Wikipedia is not relevant, because this isn't Wikipedia. It makes sense to list all of the benefits of registering.

Furthermore, I changed the wording of the first bullet because someone suggested doing so on the talk page, and I thought it was a good idea.

Do you really care about this so much that you're willing to edit war over it rather than spending the time improving the travel guide? Because if so, let's start a proper discussion on Wikivoyage talk:Why register, and invite others to give their thoughts.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I have reinstated the edits as they constitute a clear and substantial improvement.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:51, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok, very well. Please remove the protection on the page as I think I could add some more things to it. 82.3.185.12 12:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for your opinion about a banner

Hi ThunderingTyphoons. Thanks for adding feedback to several of the banner discussions I opened a couple of weeks ago. If possible, please share your thoughts in the discussion too, where we currently don't have a firm decision for any of the options. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 15:26, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Yep, no problem.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Broken leg

I broke my leg a few days ago. Expect me to be less active for a while. 82.3.185.12 12:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Timestamps

Hi TT, even though the clocks changed in the UK, the timestamps are still an hour out. Are they meant to be in UTC or my local time zone? 82.3.185.12 16:32, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

UTC is the standard, though I believe they can be changed in your preferences (top right of your screen on desktop - though, once again, this might be something only for registered users). It personally doesn't bother me in summer, but if I lived in Asia or America, I'd probably change it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:56, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm back

I'm back. I will try to edit when I can. 82.3.185.12 14:12, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Great. Hope you're feeling better.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Can you check my edit please?

I recently changed this list on the Europe page into alphabetical order. Can you check this? 82.3.185.12 15:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Quick question

On my abuse log, it said I triggered the filter "Antivandalism (global)". Do you know what this means and why it came up on there? 82.3.185.12 15:14, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

It's a global filter, so I don't have the user rights to see what it's about. It's probably nothing to worry about, unless it stopped you from editing, but if you want to know more, you're best off asking User:Billinghurst.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:28, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

It didn't stop me from editing it, I just looked at my abuse log and saw it. 82.3.185.12 15:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

As it is a global filter it can be something not targeted at us at all, perhaps something that is not suitable for Wikipedia articles but with lots of false positives in a travel guide. The ones that don't stop you usually have too much false positives, although they might make the edits worth checking (higher probability of vandalism than unmarked edits). –LPfi (talk) 16:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Global abuse filter 201 is a "badwords" filter and it is indicatory for new users/IP addresses using provocative words/behaviours. It is an alert to admins generally to run their eyeballs over the edit. Typically global filters have aspects of looking for spambots, long term abusers, and high jinks in small wikis, so focusing on new users/accounts/IP edits. If there is any particular problematic global filter that is triggering false postives then we can maybe better code it, or exclude your wiki from that filter, just need to know!

ThunderingTyphoons/LPfi ... If you are needing to review the global filters more readily, then head over to m:SRGP and ask for m:Abuse filter helpers rights, (see Special:GlobalGroupPermissions). Ping me if you apply, and I will lend my support. We generally encourage wikis to have a set of eyes on the filters for local conditions. Trusted and skilled eyes are most welcome. Billinghurst (talk) 23:16, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Funny this came up, I've just been thinking about edit filters and Wikivoyage lately -- there are some on other projects I've been thinking could be imported here, especially after a recent run-in with some fast-paced vandalism that my lack of patroller rights couldn't handle. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 10:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: This is the edit that triggered the filter. I don't think I did anything that would trigger the filter. 82.3.185.12 10:13, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Yep, I know. Don't fuss it, as I said it is an indicator only—noting that it isn't one of mine. If you truly want to lessen your appearance in abuselogs and grey hits then get and edit from an account, all IP editors have a zero account for abuse filters. Billinghurst (talk) 10:33, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Okay, thank you. 82.3.185.12 10:39, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I think it is when I add days of the week because it did it again with this edit. 82.3.185.12 14:09, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

As I mentioned, it is not my filter so I am not particularly around it. I would think that as it is an anti-spam filter that it is more likely tripping on the word market or repeated use of the word. <shrug> Plus I did say, it is an indicator and it doesn't challenge or disallow the edit, so I am not certain why you are fussing it, it is truly not that pertinent to you as an editor that it trips a filter. I have also indicated to you how to get out of this issue. At a contrary point, if the admins are having problems with the filter, then I am all ears, as part of my role is not to have added administrative burden from global actions, we are here to help. Billinghurst (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Actually that filter is mostly swear words and weird text additions. It doesn't work solely on looking at the difference, it does comparisons of old and new, so running a test to see what is there is not a simple process to eyeball. Again not seeing what is the issue, we don't ark you down based on appearing in a filter, it happens to me on regular basis and no one whacks me. Billinghurst (talk) 14:32, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Just an explanation, the reason I pinged you originally was because you were the last person to edit the filter beforehand, and I recognised your username as a crosswiki friend of Wikivoyage.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:15, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Understood, zero issue, and I encourage people to ping me if explanations are needed. My edit was to move the setting of a user-defined variables from in the middle to the top of the filter for readability, so truly minor. Billinghurst (talk) 23:22, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Question

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Why can I no longer edit pages without editing source? It is really annoying because:

A) I can no longer easily edit templates without editing their source

B) The 'lastedit' section of templates doesn't change automatically, so I have to go back and change it manually.

Do you know why this was changed? 82.3.185.12 11:12, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

The last time I was able to do this was on the 7th of April. Why won't it let me edit pages with the VisualEditor anymore? 82.3.185.12 11:25, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

I have added this to the Travellers' pub. 82.3.185.12 11:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Hmm. I don't know anything about that, so posting in the Pub is definitely the best idea. Someone will know.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:44, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst, Vaticidalprophet, Ground Zero, Ikan Kekek: Any ideas? 82.3.185.12 12:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Wait, I can change it from source to visual editing on my tablet. I will see if I can do that on my laptop (where I do most of my edits) when I go back on it later. 82.3.185.12 12:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Would you mind keeping this on the Pub, and just waiting until someone who knows can help? I know it's frustrating when things aren't working properly, but I'm getting notifications every time you post on my page, and will get even more if all the people you pinged respond here :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:08, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I will do that. 82.3.185.12 12:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd help if I could, and hope it gets sorted soon.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:13, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Last Edit Date

Why did the 'Last Edit Date' section inside templates change? It used to say "subst:#time:Y-m-d", but now it just has the date. Why do I have to change it every time now? 82.3.185.12 14:27, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

A kiwi barncompass for you!

	The Kiwi Barncompass
	For making, maintaining and keeping Oamaru to Dunedin avoiding State Highway 1. Hope I can use that route when I go to New Zealand next year. --08:25, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you :-) I didn't do that much overall, but will never say no to a kiwi.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:58, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Not too sure about this but I think you're the first user to receive the kiwi barncompass ever on wikivoyage. SHB2000 (talk) 10:21, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: – Just created the British barncompass. Will do one for CA, MY, Singapore, the US and some other EU nations and African nations. SHB2000 (talk) 10:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Also just realised that you're collecting them. I'm glad my invention of the kiwi barncompass is going to stand out. SHB2000 (talk) 10:33, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

A lot of names from the UK

Hi there, nothing too serious or anything by Wikivoyage but was fascinated after seeing this map of our ferry services, at least 75% of those have origins in the UK. Definitely shows how much Australia was influenced by Britain. (And another ferry map for your collection) SHB2000 (talk) 11:05, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

That's a nice metro-style map for a network of ferry routes. I suppose the Sydney area was the hub of early British colonisation, back when certain Brits received an exclusive all-expenses-paid trip of a lifetime at His Majesty's pleasure ;-) Plenty of them obviously liked the area enough to stay permanently, but presumably some wanted a reminder of home so named their settlements after where they came from. BTW, do you know if Chiswick, Greenwich and Woolwich have a silent W? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:38, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I only knew that Greenwich had a silent W. Don't know about Chiswick and Woolwich. Here's a map for trams as well. I guessing 25% of these names will probably revert to indigenous names in the next 10 years.

• Pros. It's the original name and it's unique.
• Cons. It's hard to say it. (e.g. Wooloomooloo or Oodnadatta)

SHB2000 (talk) 11:58, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000: They’re pronounced “Chis-ick” and “Wool-itch”. 82.3.185.12 12:06, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Interesting, considering the last time I went past it on a ferry (not train), it was pronouncing the W. Was a bit unsure on why. SHB2000 (talk) 12:14, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000: That is how the towns in the UK with those names are pronounced. No idea about the towns in Australia though. 82.3.185.12 12:43, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

It's probably pronounced the same as out ferries sometimes struggle to say the names correctly. Considering I live 40km away from Chiswick, Woolwich, Dulwich and Greewich. (They're a fair bit away from me) SHB2000 (talk) 12:44, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Lol, me too, give or take 10 km here and there.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:51, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, Woolwich might only be 30km from me but definitely 40 for Dulwich, Chiswick and Greenwich. SHB2000 (talk) 12:53, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

It's none of my business really, but I would say using native names where they exist and pre-date the English is probably a good idea, and a relatively small gesture of reconciliation with the people who lived on the land first and didn't ask for it to be renamed. A similar process is taking place in Wales, and it's generally the right thing to do. The only downside is where they occasionally invent a fake Welsh name for a town that was never Welsh-speaking, e.g. Bwcle is an obvious "Welshification" of Buckley, an Old English name for a town founded by Anglo-Saxons which just happens to sit on the Welsh side of the border over 1000 years later.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:04, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m hoping for Hobart to be renamed. Though the fact that more indigenous juveniles get locked up rather than finish high school still daunts me. SHB2000 (talk) 13:24, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Quick question, is English spoken in Wales or is Welsh spoken in Wales? SHB2000 (talk) 01:18, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Both :-) Welsh is spoken by almost 30% of the population, a proportion which is rising over time. English is spoken by almost everyone, discounting those pre-school children who only speak Welsh at home, and some Welsh-speaking people who can forget English in their old age due to lack of use or dementia. In theory, it's possible to live in some parts of Wales and only speak Welsh, but I'm not sure whether that ever really happens in practice. There are definitely those who consider Welsh their first or preferred language, use it every day, and only speak English as a second language they acquired in school.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:43, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. Does the same apply to Scotland and Northern Ireland? Never been to either three of them (Only been to England) so I'm pretty curious about these languages. And who thought that Bwcle was the welsh name of an english town? SHB2000 (talk) 06:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Scotland has Scots and Gaelic; NI has Irish and Ulster-Scots. Their situations are not identical to Welsh, because none of them have co-official status, and some are only spoken by a few people in limited areas within their respective countries. Scots is in an odd position because it's closely related to English; some people class it as a dialect of English, while others think of it as a separate language with its own dialects. And because many Scottish people use Scots vocabulary when speaking English, the boundaries are even more blurred. By the way, the English county of Cornwall also has its own language, Cornish, which is fluently spoken by very few. The Crown Dependencies also have their own native languages, as do the British Romanies and Irish travellers.

So yeah, lots of linguistic diversity, and that's before you get on to the likes of Polish, Punjabi, Urdu, Bengali etc which are spoken by hundreds of thousands of Brits! All that with the sad caveat that the vast majority of English native speakers from Britain are monolingual, so there's a lot of ignorance about our country's other languages even here.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Very sad to hear about the few surviving languages in the UK. Also sad to see from 200 native languages in Australia to only 30 surviving. And I've always wanted to learn some indigenous language in New South Wales. Sadly, our state is not doing anything to protect these languages and claims itself as a "multicultural" state while only 5 have survived (these are over 1100km-1500km from where I live. But very surprised about Cornwall though. SHB2000 (talk) 11:15, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, all of the British languages which were spoken in the late Middle Ages are still spoken today, even some which technically went extinct and have been revived in the modern era (e.g. Cornish). So I would say our record on languages is fairly good, despite everything, and better than a lot of other European countries whose governments offer no protection or recognition to their own minority languages and are sometimes actively hostile in their suppression (e.g. France and Poland).

Sadly, the fate of native languages in Australia is just another symptom of the slow genocide Aboriginals have been facing ever since Britain decided to Australia was prime real estate. Hopefully things are changing and the languages that remain will be preserved and used by future generations. Do you know the app Duolingo? I notice they have a couple of courses for Native American languages (e.g. Navajo), so maybe they'll develop something for an indigenous Australian language.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:46, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I used DuoLingo when studying French. The problem with Australian languages is only two states having the incentive to do this. (i.e. Aboriginal languages compulsory, uniform is aboriginal themed (some primary schools) etc.) Also wish DuoLingo had Nauruan, so I can revive nawiki. SHB2000 (talk) 12:15, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

But I'm hoping for Hobart to be renamed and for it not to be renamed. SHB2000 (talk) 12:22, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Huh? Is that like w:Schrödinger's cat being both alive and not-alive? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:33, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't want another Fugging situation. The new proposed name is nipaluna, which is meant to be pronounced as nip-ahl-oo-na and I don't want signs stolen but souvenir hunting thieves (even though Hobart is one of the worlds safest cities) but at the same time, I want to respect the past of the area, and the original inhabitants who didn't ask it to be renamed. SHB2000 (talk) 12:43, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh, right. You can never please everyone. If you go to Corsica (I've not been yet), almost all of the road signs are vandalised to remove the French names, even after the government spent a lot of money making them bilingual.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

The South Australian government spelt heaps of money of protecting a sign for a place called "nowhere else". Still got stolen. Funnily enough, a The other side of the moon, WA (yes, there's a place called that) hasn't had this issue yet. SHB2000 (talk) 13:10, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Sounds like they should be added to Places with unusual names, so even more tourists ill go and be tempted. Meanwhile, my aunt's neighbour has had the sign for the street they live on in his back garden for ten years, and the council hasn't even noticed it's missing...--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Australia has heaps of these. Including "The edge of the world" or Eggs and Bacon Bay SHB2000 (talk) 13:30, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the flag on my userpage

Hi Jamie, thanks for adding the correct flag on my userpage. Must've made the mistake months a month or two ago and forgot about it. Thanks again. SHB2000 (talk) 11:22, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Promoting Eastleigh to Guide status

Hi, I have been working on the Eastleigh article for the last few days and I was wondering if it should be promoted to Guide status. What do you think? 82.3.185.12 13:51, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Started a discussion at Talk:Eastleigh. 82.3.185.12 13:55, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi. I will respond there later today.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:09, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@82.3.185.12: - Left you some feedback. SHB2000 (talk) 23:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Point 2

I understand where you are coming from to a point, but having been accused of "trolling" for proposing a way to provide clarity for travellers, being berated for "bad faith" behaviour because someone else restored part of an edit of mine that had been reverted, and having had several good-faith edits summarily reverted will little or no explanation, during the first few days of my new excursion on this wiki, I felt quite bruised. DeFacto (talk) 13:43, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

That's fair. I hope I didn't cause any of that for you, and if I did I'm sorry and will try to do better.

You may have noticed, Wikivoyage is quite a small community, certainly compared to the larger Wikipedias. An upside of that is all the regulars know each other to a degree, and we mostly get on and work together well. In my view, Wikivoyage is a friendlier and more personal community than that of en.wikipedia, though of course not everyone would agree.

But a downside of being close-knit is a certain insularity, in part caused by negative past experiences with new users that stormed in like firecrackers and quickly became disruptive nuisances. Another downside is if you're in a dispute with someone else, then much like in a small village, it's not long before it seems like everyone knows what's going on and wants to have their say. I'm not saying that as an excuse, nor suggesting that you've exhibited traits of a "disruptive nuisance", but rather an explanation as to why (a) some would react strongly and negatively to a new user trying a lot of fairly big changes right off the bat, and (b) why so many different users piled in with different opinions and arguments quite quickly. On a wiki this size, the anonymity that you can get on Wikipedia just quietly making changes that go unnoticed is not really an option.

Another point is that when you're used to one community's way of doing things, a different community's norms can be jarring in ways you don't expect (for my part, I definitely find the 'stick up the arse' acronym-happy snotty attitude of too many Wikipedians a jarring turn-off, hence why I stick to quiet and small edits there).

This turned into more of an essay than I expected. Hope it makes sense.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

All valuable background and comment, thanks for taking the time. DeFacto (talk) 07:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, Wikipedia gets more vandalism than wikivoyage getting total number of edits overall. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:07, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Quick question

A blocked user recently replied to you on their IP’s talk page, however an edit was made about 30 minutes before from a different IP in the same area. Is there any way to check if this is the same person? 82.3.185.12 20:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Checkusers can check fingerprints of the device/software/user preferences. We don't have any, but we can request help from Stewards, with the same rights (and some more) across projects. I am not sure it is worthwhile, though. –LPfi (talk) 04:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't think CU's are necessary in Wikivoyage. SHB2000 (talk) 05:31, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi, SHB2000: Ok, thanks. 82.3.185.12 05:50, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Plus, IP adresses change over time. I've had 4 different ones in the last few days now. SHB2000 (talk) 05:54, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

They do, but checkusers have access also to information about the device. –LPfi (talk) 06:18, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

How does this work?

Hi, out of curiosity, how does this work. If User:Londoners are pissheads!! was a proper user, then how did this happen? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:11, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

And this as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

You can have a registered account on Wikivoyage without having a globally-registered account.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Aren't all accounts global nowadays? And regardless, I thought your account gets registered locally when you visit a project. Is there a way to delete an account? In the "right to vanish" pages we are usually told they cannot be deleted. –LPfi (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

AFAIK, there's no way to delete an account, but I honestly don't know about any of the rest of this.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Or did stewards delete his account due to the very offensive username? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm baffled. Special:Contributions/Londoners_are_pissheads!! shows one contribution and a message that there is no such account. @WhatamIdoing: Any idea what's going on here? —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:02, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

That's odd, @Mx. Granger. It looks like the account was created at :23, saved the edit at :25, and was blocked at :26. Maybe some process hadn't caught up yet? @DannyS712 might be able to shed some light on it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:52, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

My understanding (as a non-steward) is that there are 2 versions of globally hiding an account. One, referred to as lock+hide, removes the account from lists such as the api module to query users, and from the central auth display. The other, referred to as lock+suppress, also suppresses the account on all wikis, which means hiding their name from any contributions, etc. I believe the part about displaying both the notice about not existing, and actual contributions, on the contributions page is a bug. Maybe @Martin Urbanec: could clarify about both the locking and if its a bug? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:24, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ This is damn confusing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:29, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

EU and Russia

I note that my edit to Europe was not too clear, as what I meant was lost on your copyedit. Is this clearer:

Neither Russia nor the EU has been particularly keen to pursue closer political relations with the other – or to further politics of close relations with both in countries in between.

This was especially obvious in Ukraine before the war, but there has been a similar attitude e.g. towards Serbia: if you play with them, you won't play with us. I suppose there will be a similar choice for Belarus if Lukashenka is finally overthrown (and Putin knows that, and won't give them the choice). –LPfi (talk) 17:10, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi. "...or to further politics of close relations with both in these countries in between." is not very clear. How about "Neither Russia and its allies nor the EU and its allies have been particularly keen to pursue closer political relations with the other."? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:57, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

It is not they and their allies. My point is that EU does not allow Serbia to keep close connections with Russia if it intends to join EU, EU made little effort to help Ukraine as long as it had a Russia-friendly president, and did nothing to help Ukraine maintain its relation with Russia after the Euromaidan. EU demands these countries to break the ties to Russia as a prerequisite for better relations with the EU. This is very different from Finland's situation during the Cold War, where we could join the Nordic Council and even the EFTA, while still having the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance with the Soviet Union. The politics of the West is something I have been deeply concerned about. I think it is relevant also to travellers from other continents visiting e.g. the former Yugoslavia (NATO bombing Serbia was very much about western vs eastern influence, I don't know to what extent the rest of the conflict was) – or Ukraine. —The preceding comment was added by LPfi (talk • contribs)

Gotcha. The problem is with distilling that down to no more than a sentence or two. What about "Neither Russia nor the EU has been particularly keen to pursue closer political relations with the other, to the extent that they won't allow their own allies to have close relations with the other."? That's still a bit awkward. Let me think about it a bit more, or we can open it up on Talk:Europe to other Wikivoyagers who remember how to English.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: If you want to dive deeper into the conflict, apparently the U.S. government is now sponsoring neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just as they are (directly or indirectly through Saudi Arabia) sponsoring Al-Qaeda and/or its affiliates to topple the governments in Syria and Yemen. But that is beyond the scope of a travel guide. The dog2 (talk) 19:42, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

You're spreading the Russian line. Best not to engage in propagandistic oversimplification and then run away from it. Since you know it's not relevant, next time, don't state it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

A new barncompass for you!

	The Sysop's Barncompass
	This Barncompass is to show appreciation for your great work on being a great admin on Wikivoyage and reverting the Projects guy's harassment and vandalism. He's given up on my old Wikivoyage email, which I still check for his emails. --SHB2000 (talk contribs en.wikipedia) 05:47, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Question

Did you turn off your notifications or something? I don't think my pings are reaching you. 82.3.185.12 15:17, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I haven't turned off anything. Where have you pinged me? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:40, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I asked you a question on Talk:Eastleigh a few days ago, and I also pinged you at User talk:87.74.197.32. 15:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

This isn’t the first time my pings didn’t work. 82.3.185.12 15:53, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

If you spell the person's username wrong (like you did here), the ping won't work even if you later correct it. But that's my fault for having a complicated username.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:12, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I see. I didn’t know that. 82.3.185.12 16:30, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

My edits keep getting "tagged"

All my edits are being tagged with "Potential Scifi Vandalism". Why is it doing that? 82.3.185.12 11:09, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Because you're an IP user, and we have a filter set up against a vandal who is (or was) obsessed with Star Wars. As others have said already, as long as these tags aren't affecting your ability to edit, they're nothing to worry about.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:12, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks! 82.3.185.12 11:13, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Covid box on NI.

Article: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

The Covid box needs updating, but would appreciate someone with more experience doing so. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:55, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

I did a very basic update, based on what the government website says.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:19, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Why does this page exist?

Do you know why this page exists? 82.3.185.12 16:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism. Thanks.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:49, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Global filters

Swept in from the pub

Please see my talk page for a brief bit of context

User:Billinghurst has suggested that Wikivoyage should have one or two m:Abuse filter helpers who could keep an eye on the global abuse filters (particularly the ones marked as private) as they pertain to Wikivoyage. Would any sysop / bureaucrat who is confident using our internal abuse filters like to put themselves forward for this? As I understand it, it's just a monitoring role, making sure that global filters are not having detrimental effect locally.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:26, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

It is a quality control role and some eyes out for your community. There are a lot of global hits for all the wikis, so someone with broader vision focusing on your logs is valuable. It can also be seen as a proving ground for those who are good at the role and have a global view. AF are currently going through a rewrite and improvements, and when they go live those eyes will be useful. Billinghurst (talk) 11:32, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd be happy to help with this. I'm not an abuse filter expert by any means, but I have modified them now and then and have enough programming experience to be able to understand how they work. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:54, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to have at least two, if we can. Anyone else? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I mentioned on TT's talk that this is interesting timing, because I've actually been thinking about whether I could help out with abuse filters on Voy recently (partially because I recently had a run-in with some fast-paced vandalism that could've been better dealt with if either I could rollback or we had more filters). While I'd be happy to help out, I don't have the mop, and that being mentioned here gives me pause. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 10:55, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

With all respect to your edits so far, you'd need a longer track record (specifically on WV) for the mop, but there's no reason that I can see for you not to have rollback rights instated right away if it would help.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh, certainly no rush to adminship -- I'm still not sure if I'd even want it. Much thanks for the...smaller mop? :P, though! (Dustpan and broom?) I would wonder if it'd be useful for anyone to apply for local edit filter helper rights on projects that we share some private-filter issues with, too -- I know there are some shared edit filter helpers between enwiki and enwikibooks, for instance. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 11:45, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Just noting here that as a sysop on both meta and enwikivoyage I've in the past used global filters for some LTAs that are active here and on other wikis, and try to review the logs when I have time --DannyS712 (talk) 09:06, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Global "ntsamr"-pattern spambot filter

I tried to tell Nricardo that I made this edit, but it kept triggering this filter and disallowing my edits. 82.3.185.12 17:32, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't know whether I've mentioned this before, but I'm not the best person to ask about filters, particularly not global filters. Advise you post in the Travellers' Pub.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:45, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Done. 82.3.185.12 17:56, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Also, what is this page? 82.3.185.12 18:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

A badly worded and badly formatted stub about a film character, with translate requests. No idea what the creator thought we'd do about it. Why? –LPfi (talk) 21:01, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

How do I mass hide revisions and protect page creations?

Hi there, just got admin rights on na.wiki yesterday. However, I have tried to protect a page that has not been created. Been a target for an LTA. Do you know how? The page is Edwin Symonowicz. Thanks, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Never mind. Found out how to do it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:09, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000: You can go to the history of the logs, select multiple revisions using the checkbox, and the click "Change visibility of revisions". Leaderboard (talk) 09:09, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Leaderboard: - Thanks mate! The layout does feel unusual to me. Should get used to it though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:11, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you

	The Sysop's Barncompass
	This Barncompass is to show appreciation for your great work on being a great Sysop on Wikivoyage. --82.3.185.12 14:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I saw what happened on the Travellers' pub and I saw Leaderboard's Meta talk page, so I just wanted to say thank you. 82.3.185.12 14:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

If I may chime in, I'd also like to give a thank you as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 14:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Can you also please hide all of the contributions between the first and last one you hid as you can still see it if you do compare revisions. 82.3.185.12 14:28, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I just wanted to clarify that when I said that I didn't have an account, I meant that I don't have one on Wikivoyage. 82.3.185.12 15:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

You're very welcome. Those revisions have now been hidden.

Please feel free to edit Wikivoyage how you please, but just so you know you are welcome to create a new account for the purposes of editing WV, and you're also welcome to use the other account or to carry on as you are. You've just got to be careful on other wikis, some of which have strict rules against use of multiple accounts.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:40, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to create/use an account on Wikivoyage as I will lose all of the contributions I have made so far. I will try to be as careful as I can on other wikis, as I don't want to get blocked. 82.3.185.12 16:18, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

As you wish, but sooner or later you're going to lose that IP address.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

My IP address only changes when my router is reset. 82.3.185.12 17:29, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but a power outage means oh no, my IP has reset. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:28, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Eu English

Actually there was a short while when people argued that English would cease to be an official language of the EU altogether due to a weird principle that every member could only "bring into" the EU one official language. And it just so happens that Malta (Maltese), Ireland (Irish) and Cyprus (Greek, I think) do not much care for the English language in that regard. Of course it being still by far the most studied foreign language in the EU, any proposal to actually get rid of EU-English is dead in the water. But then EU-English is not quite British English as many a Brit has learned to their chagrin during EU summits. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:20, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Definitely agree that English as spoken by non-natives in the EU institutions is somewhat its own variant, perhaps even different from the English(es) spoken by ordinary citizens outside the Brussels bubble, but the differences are influenced by the grammar and vocabulary that major continental languages have in common.

I can't much speak for Cyprus and Malta except to remark that English is almost universally spoken in each regardless of whether they feel any great affinity for it, but the idea that Ireland is somehow not a native (and in fact majority monolingual) English-speaking country is just wrong.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Question

There is a user editing pages with an IP address quite close to a user who is blocked indefinitely. Do you think it is the same user? 82.3.185.12 17:01, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

The IP addresses are registered in different cities. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:00, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Given the existence of VPNs and proxies and their use in anonymous editing, it's probably best to go off the actual content of edits rather than the addresses themselves.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Loud slurping noises

To answer your question, if you go to Japan, making loud slurping noises is actually expected when you go to a ramen or udon shop. Of course, these places are casual eateries, the equivalent of fast food in the West, and you would also be expected to be quiet if you go to a posh kaiseki or Edomae sushi place. The dog2 (talk) 19:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thank you.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Gothic Revival

Just to ask, do you consider Christ Church college in Oxford to be Gothic revival? The dog2 (talk) 19:16, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Not really, since it dates from the end of the original Gothic period. Apparently there's some debate as to whether Christopher Wren's later repairs and embellishments constituted a continuation of the original tradition or a mini-revival, but I don't know enough about it. Most people with a casual interest in architecture would say the Gothic revival took place from the late 18th century onwards in reaction to neo-Classicalism.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Revision-deletion

Can you apply them on the pages vandalised by GRP, for instance, Talk:Poland? They have a habit of referencing these pages when spamming other sites, and hence I for one now apply revision-deletion to prevent this. Leaderboard (talk) 10:31, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Also pinging @SelfieCity, LPfi: as you both seem to be quite active this hour. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:29, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

I suppose that for those, it is the content that is used by the links, no need to hide user names, and most edit summaries are OK too. Different with some other users. I think TT and I took care of them. Was there some more? I'll be off for some time now. –LPfi (talk) 11:50, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Nah, there weren't any left. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:57, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

I was working on an OpenStreetMap project when GRP/LtA came to Wikivoyage, but I’ve read through the AC and LTA discussions. My understanding was that due to LTA’s behavior revdel wasn’t effective with him. But it looks like it’s resolved now. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:30, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Can someone also take the speedy deletion bin out? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:58, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Done

Many thanks to you four for dealing with the Poland vandalism as a team.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup d'avoir pris la poubelle! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:39, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Je t'en prie :-) Bonne nuit à toi.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:46, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Ethnicity

To answer your comment, while this is certainly not foolproof, one way in which they can determine your ethnicity is from your surname. So if your surname is Armenian (eg. actor Ken Davitian, who is from the U.S., or football player Andranik Teymourian, who is from Iran), you are prohibited from entering Azerbaijan regardless of where you were born or what passport you use. The dog2 (talk) 22:06, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Well that's horrible.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to chime in, but that's pretty damn horrible (that also means the NSW premier won't ever get to go to Azerbaijan). I never knew any country did this. Oh well, that's something new I learnt today SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:16, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

"Conspiracy theories"

In light of this revert, let me just point to the FJS days (who has been dead since 1988 and is thus safe(r) to openly label as corrupt than the current guys) which were so corrupt, even his sons had to face corruption charges (and I think Max Strauß got convicted....) Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, but I was more concerned that allegations of high-level corruption, even if they had been substantiated, weren't relevant to that article or specifically to the section on police.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

fair enough Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Although to address the "conspiracy theory" point, I used that term precisely there was no substantiation of the claim, and such allegations are often used as political weapons by the disingenuous and gullible, cf. pizzagate.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Pizzagate is absurd and I’m mystified by the fact it’s supposedly caught on (I don’t know anyone who believes it), but in this case the context is important. I have no idea about these allegations but the context is local police and large scandals aren’t the focus of the passage. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:37, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

English language varieties for Australia

FYI: Most people, including Australia's would think not, but for the few Holden fans like myself, Holden - the former largest car company was sold of to General Motors (US owned) in 1931, and hence why Australia uses a lot of US terms when it comes to cars. It was sad to see it leave Australia last year though, but it was because of Holden why Australia is more closely related to the US when it comes to cars. No idea about NZ though, but I presume it's a similar reason though.

Cheers, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, but I was simply pointing out that "Australian and Canadian English uses American terminology and spelling extensively as the Canadian and American auto industries have always had close links" does not follow.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000: When it comes to spelling, Australia still generally seems to follow British conventions even when it comes to motor vehicles though. I have never lived in the UK, but having taken my driving theory test in Australia, the U.S. and Singapore, I remember Australia used UK spelling for words like "kerb" and "tyre". Also I remember on the country roads, whenever they add an additional lane for you to overtake slower vehicles, those lanes are called "passing lanes" in the U.S., but called "overtaking lanes" in Australia. The dog2 (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

It's a mix. We use US for a lot like Blinkers, boot, coupe with no accent unless it's a European manufactured car, median, minivan etc. There's also some that we use that are neither used in en-GB or en-US like carpool/car sharing which it's called T2 and T3 here, carsharing and car club is not used here at all, or ute (Aus only). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:59, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

"Boot" is English, isn't it? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

yea. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

"Blinkahs" is Boston-area. We use our turn signals here in New York. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I wonder if Australian terms also differ by region. I lived in Adelaide for a number of years, and I remember they also used British terms like "wing mirror", "handbrake" and "accelerator". Perhaps someone from Sydney or Melbourne would use more American terms. The dog2 (talk) 23:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it does. Not car related, but harbor is spelt harbor in SA, most notably Victor Harbor. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @SHB2000: Actually not, in my experience. The use of American spelling in "Victor Harbor" is actually a misspelling that stuck. In all other circumstances, the "harbour" spelling is used. The dog2 (talk) 00:09, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Outer Harbor? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:10, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Also mind that there's only two harbors in SA, unless Vaticidalprophet knows of any more. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:11, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Just a heads up

ArticCynda has said they will come back in September on voy:fr:Discussion utilisateur:ArticCynda (I know you can read french :) ) per the standard offer offered on enwikipedia, while earlier claiming they're "on a six month break". Just a heads up to when he comes back in two months time. Already let Ground Zero know, but your the second most user who's dealt with him, I thought I'll let you know as well. Cheers, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Also pinging @Ikan Kekek: and I'm too exhausted to write another talk page message. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:21, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Awesome, I can't wait. Cheers, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

tbh I can't believe why he still thinks he's not indef banned. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:33, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

And a countdown here SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:34, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Appears that AC thinks that his ban is over in 15 hours according to this link he mentioned. I'll keep an eye out for his edits on the Murmansk Oblast page. (also pining @Nurg: about this) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:17, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Weird spellings

Thanks for the fix. I don't understand how I ended up writing in that way, I thought I didn't. –LPfi (talk) 10:19, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

It's okay! It's always easier to spot other people's typos than your own.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:05, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

But it is funny how you think you write one thing and have your fingers write something else. –LPfi (talk) 11:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Malay days of the week

Ahad comes from Arabic, meaning "First"; folks in rural Terengganu where I used to live sometimes called it "Hari Satu" (Day One) in Malay. The pattern is the same through Sabtu ("Sixth"). So I think the order from Sunday-Saturday was the right order. Besides, weekends in Malaysia are Friday-Saturday. Why did you change it in the Malay phrasebook? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh, also, if that phrasebook should be demoted to usable, please post on its talk page what you feel needs to be improved. Thanks a lot! Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:24, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

In English the week generally starts on Monday, so that's the order we should use on an English-language guide. The significance on the days being in numerical order is important to those who speak Malay, but you have to imagine that doesn't include users of that phrasebook. But change the order back if you think it makes more sense, as I've neither been to Malaysia nor speak the language.

I gave my reason for the demotion in the edit summary: a lot of the phrases are missing a pronunciation guide. This is not actually in the guidelines, but perhaps it should be? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:31, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, if we want to use that standard, I think it should be added. I can add a note stating that the days of the week in Malaysia start on Sunday and that the weekend is Friday-Saturday. I think that's useful information for foreigners to know. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes it is useful, thank you for the intro. And I agree that the local order is more important than ours. Readers will find Monday without it coming first, but they may get confused by Monday being called Day two. The risk of that confusion is less if we use all hints we can to have the reader get it. –LPfi (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing. By the way, in the U.S., it's not uncommon to consider that the week begins on Sunday. I'd say that's especially common for Jews and Seventh Day Adventists, but of course we collectively represent a small percentage of the population; however, you'll often see general-purpose calendars, including Google Calendar, start each week on Sunday. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

That explanation certainly makes things clearer. Ikan, do you reckon you'd be able to add the missing pronunciations? Because other than those, that phrasebook should really be a guide. The reason I was looking at the page was that French Wikivoyage didn't have a Malay phrasebook which seemed like a glaring omission, so I'm using our rather good one as a template to translate.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:23, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

I will try to get to this. There are a few words someone else added that I don't know or that weren't in common use where I lived in the 70s, though I should still be able to approximate the pronunciation, as Malay is a phonetic language. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:30, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Great! I may then be able to "translate" English pseudo-pronunciations into French ones (perhaps easier said than done).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:44, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

My knowledge of French is decent, so I might be able to help with that, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:46, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

About artcile Greece in Wikivoyage

Why do you hide the fact that the measures also concern tourists ?? It is not self-evident for some readers here that the measures also apply to tourists. You need to know that what you are doing is misinformation. You should undo it immediately or I will ask for your blocking for misinformation and vandalism. —The preceding comment was added by Green Duke Italia (talk • contribs)

No threats please. Several editors disagree with you on your edits, so taking it to the talk page before trying to reinsert them would be prudent. –LPfi (talk) 16:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I had no idea what "The fines are €300 and the above concerns and the tourists" was supposed to mean. Fortunately, user:SelfieCity seemed to understand your intended meaning better. But perhaps next time you can phrase your writing more clearly? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:46, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

As I have said, no personal opinions are welcome into articlespace. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:41, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Also I quote the following:

You should undo it immediately or I will ask for your blocking for misinformation and vandalism.

Assume good faith. And plus, no one will block tt! for reverting that edit. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

37.73.97.254

Probably just Wikinger (who is officially banned by the WMF) so I blocked that IP and revdeled that edit. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:42, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thanks.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Userpage

Quite off topic on content, but you've got a second person who's copied something off your userpage. (here) Quite interesting how my userpage, which is copied off numerous users, is getting copied off by someone else. What's the term for that? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:20, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

They say imitation is the highest form of flattery.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

What's quite hilarious is that they didn't even bother to change the links... But I've changed the email the user feature so emails don't go to me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:40, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Australian National Parks

Regarding the thread about the national parks at the pub, here's an article that might be of interest to why there's so (too) many national parks in Australia. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:09, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Finally got around to reading that. It was interesting, though it would be important that a 'downgrade' to state park didn't mean less stringent protection.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, although I wonder what'll be with the existing state parks. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:12, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Cough cough... Not surprised when there's 2sq km national parks... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:07, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Interface admin

I'm wondering whether I should sign up for it. We don't have any active interface admins apart from WOSlinker, and I have to a certain extend, a good knowledge of css (on a babel scale, it'd be a css-3). I haven't edited any css pages though, and that's because I haven't really had the need to before, but considering the lack of technical people meaning we have to get someone from another wiki, I thought I might sign up for one, but wanted to ask another person's opinion first. Cheers, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I assume this is to become a local interface admin, rather than a global interface editor? What would you use the extra tools for and how do you think they'd benefit Wikivoyage?

To be honest I'd be cautious about granting you any additional rights for now, as in addition to the issue about templates which is hopefully going to be resolved, you've made a couple of decisions since becoming administrator that I and some others have found questionable. These have already been discussed on your talk page so there's no point going over them again, and I'm sure you have learnt and will continue to learn from them, but I also think they show you still have room to grow in your existing role as administrator.

Just picking up on user:SelfieCity's latest comment on your talk page, he is right that you do a hell of a lot already, not just on en.wikivoyage, but on various corners of the Wikimedia movement. From personal experience, it's definitely possible to do too much and neglect other aspects of your life: not for the first time, I found just a few months ago that I was spending hours and hours each day on Wikivoyage, but achieving very little in terms of travel guide output to the point where I wasn't getting much enjoyment from it at all, and with a detrimental impact on my work and social lives. When this happens, I take a step back, reduce my WV hours and try to make those that I do spend actually count. This may not relevant to you right now, but you might find it becomes relevant in the future if you take on too much in one go.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes. I'd note that you became admin only a few weeks ago, and that you weren't active on Wikivoyage before 2021. While I appreciate the consideration, I think we should wait a little to let you gain more admin experience before giving interface admin rights. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, probably. I'm just more active these days because of lockdown here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:20, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Pings

FYI: Pings won't work if you don't add a signature. So if you made a typo, and fix it on, it won't work (I've forgot the exclamation mark in your username at times and added a space in SelfieCity's username, or held the shift bar too long in LPfi's username). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I know, it's annoying. That's why I tagged SC in my edit summary the second time around.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I remember 82 forgetting the exclamation mark all the time, when they were around. Also find that not being able to ping IPs are annoying. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:10, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

On one or two other wikis I use the space. The name was an in-joke with a friend, and when I created an account I had no idea what username to give myself so I went with something meaningless. There should be a suggestions box when you ping someone as you enter that user’s username. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:20, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I've always wondered why the MediaWiki software doesn't have that. On some programs that allow you to code css and html, you'd get a suggestions box when typing context in it. The only problem is with the automatic spell checker that it only allows British and American english, and so I just picked British and it'll autocorrect it from -ed to -t for some words (like learned). Now go with American and now it autocorrects the -ize and -yze spellings, which is useful in some contexts (like sanitized, but also annoying when it comes to others like realise, to the point where I've just stuck with American english) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:33, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

kg spelling in the UK

Is it kilogram or kilogramme? Similarly is gram spelt gram or gramme? Thanks! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:57, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Both are accepted, though "(kilo)gram" is more common.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:07, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I thought kilogram was universal, until I read w:New Zealand english. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:18, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Reverts for the templates

Hi tt!, just wanted to ask if you can not revert anymore of those templates. The reason is because I'm still developing them, and wanted to have examples of both British and American spelling, as well as 12 and 24. Thanks! (Although Talk:Indonesia and Talk:Malaysia have it all, sort of) Thanks SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:17, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Which part of "Before a new MediaWiki template is put into general use it needs to be discussed and accepted as good or preferably best practice. Until such acceptance, new templates should not be added to more than one low-visibility article" are you finding difficult to follow? If you want to practise with different formats, do it in your userspace. I've been waiting a week for you to handle this removal, after you said you would, but you haven't removed a single page from Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Formatbox since then.

Alternatively, start the discussion that aims to get this template approved ASAP, and then we won't need to remove anything.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:28, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

It is still a work in progress, but I'll announce it soon, I'm still drafting the proposal. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:37, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Block for 180.252.210.180

You mentioned in the reason for the block as "VOA", but what does it mean? Never heard of it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Voice of America. :-) -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:25, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism only account.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:34, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

I've requested a global block because they've also been on Wikibooks, Wikiversity and Wikidata. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:47, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Userbox suggestion

Having just noticed you edit your userpage, thought you may be interested in inserting this userbox:

{{Userbox
|id-c=#003399
|info-c=#ffcc00
|id=[[File:Flag of Europe.svg|50px]]
|info=This user has had their '''[[Brexit|European citizenship stripped]]''' as part of Brexit.
}}

Producing:

	This user has had their European citizenship stripped as part of Brexit.

Just a suggestion, nothing a must. (Is there also a reason why there aren't much userboxes here on en.voy?) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:21, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Ha, good one :-) Actually, I already made something similar to that for my Wikipedia page, but have no plans to start a collection of userboxes on my page here.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:53, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Same. Not going to have an endless list (which I copied off yours) of userboxes. Although I might create some travel related userboxes here (such as National Parks for Europe and North America (not going to make 685 boxes for Australia though), or countries visited.) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Docent question for Hampshire

You'd probably think that you'd get a docent question from me, but in Hampshire in the listing for Aldershot it says:

The "Home of the British Army" has two good military museums.

and the listing for Farnborough says

The "Birthplace of British Aviation" is still home to the biennial International Air Show and a super little aerospace museum.

However how can the military capital be in two places? (unless I'm missing something, because non commercial aviation is connected to the military all the time in Australia) Just wondering. Thanks! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:29, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

You'd probably think that you'd get a docent question from me...

- only because you titled this section 'Docent question for Hampshire'!

Yes, you're missing something key, by conflating the army with the military. The British Army, like any army, is primarily a land-based force, mainly composed of infantry regiments (i.e. foot soldiers) and cavalry regiments (i.e. armoured vehicle-based soldiers, who before the invention of the combustion engine fought on horseback). Some army regiments work with aircraft and ships, but just as maritime defence and sea-based warfare is almost exclusively the responsibility of the Royal Navy, the main air-based fighting force is the Royal Air Force. All three make up the British Armed Forces, or "the military" as a whole; there is exactly the same setup in your country with the RAAF and RAN, which are distinct from the Australian Army, but together make up the Australian Defence Force.

Aldershot is called the "home of the British Army" because of its 170-year long association with the army. It was the first permanent training camp for the army and even now is one of the UK's largest garrisons. Farnborough doesn't have any direct connection with the RAF but it is the place where the British aviation sector (both civil and military) was born and where many landmark developments were made, particularly in the early- to mid-20th century.

Does that answer your question? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. Makes sense to me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:14, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Belatedly reading some meta WV discussions

Hello

I liked your rhetorical guesses in https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_talk:How_to_handle_unwanted_edits#Blocking_policy and the follow up meta discussion in https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing, i.e. http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/GoodBye

As an ex-CouchSurfer (moved to BeWelcome some 4 years ago) and ex EnWikipedian etc., I am grinning while typing this on a mobile, as I recognze some patterns that fascinate me:

1. "Thus they gain shortcut privileges as a VestedContributor."

- see the "Unblockables" on enwiki, after a couple of wikidramahs to gain these

1. 'A WikiMindWipe is one way to assert the RightToVanish"

- the fake CleanStarts come to mind

1. "a mature person will also post a GoodBye with an essay"

- I do not consider myself mature, but indeed I had posted one on CS (a short one: "Commercialized now, so let us move out!" which then happened en masse as you know, in 2020) and on a WP language wiki half a year ago (a longer one).

1. "But here we're talking about ForkingOfOnlineCommunities"

- see this very WV project

1. " they continue to contribute with a SockPuppet account, c) they want to see whether the community will start questioning their disappearance."

- almost all the LTAs I know of...

1. "...but still care about the community, possibly becoming a lurker and only contributing in certain situations..."

- A grin again: I am a self-declared (and "essayed") lurker at one of the WP wikis (waiting for some years, until a convoluted LTA affair is fully dealt with there)

1. "Only the wisest communities have the strength and perceptiveness to learn from departures. "

- So true. I am interacting now with an Oxford researcher who is conducting a formal study of one of the WM wikis about this topic. But indeed, we need more "exit interviews", if only to learn of LTAS' hurt feelings and their murky souls. There is one I found but only for WMF staff : https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_exit_interview (and seemingly empty)

Bows Zezen (talk) 05:45, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi there. Glad you found some interesting in digging through old conversations. I sometimes find myself doing the same, particularly when it gets late at night...--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

City of Tromsø

Hello User:ThunderingTyphoons!. By viewing trough the 'view history' part of Tromsø / [[5]] I notice you have made the most recent major contributions (sept21). This is a page I also have an interest in revising. Being from the High North of Norway and reading the WikiVoyaga-page, I for example recognize a festival that seized to exist back in 2013 (Døgnvill). There are also minor pieces of information that are no longer relevant. I am fairly new to editing on WikiVoyage, and a WP user for about a year now.

After what I see from the 'view history', I was thinking that you, alongside voyage users such as User:Erik_den_yngre could aid me in revising this page. Thanks In advance, also If I don't respond within a month or two, then please leave a discussion at my talk-page over at english or norwegian WikiPedia.

--Mathias -Ahoy (talk) 22:24, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

@Mathias -Ahoy: plunge forward. I probably don't know which festival it was, unless it happens in the winter. (last time I went was in 2018 to Tromsø, and I don't remember a festival or that going on). If you think it should be listed, just add it in the go section. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

The autumn festival that used to be arranged in september. But as mentioned, that stopped around the year 2013. Døgnvill was the name of the festival m:User:SHB2000. As for the other concerts, I will take the advice and continue my discussion in Talk:Tromsø. Are you well known in Tromsø's cultural life, although not living there User:SHB2000?|--129.242.248.82 12:30, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

No, never lived in Tromsø or even the northern hemisphere for that matter, just stayed there once for quite some time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:32, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I must say SHB2000, you are so quick to reply. I have now made an edit on Talk:Tromsø. It's a city that certainly attracts a lot of tourists, something that the extensive page reflects --Mathias -Ahoy (talk) 14:32, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Mathias -Ahoy: I don't know that I'd characterise my edits to that page as major, and don't have any connection with or particular knowledge of Tromsø. That said, Wikivoyage is always in need of knowledgable travellers and locals to improve our articles, so please do take the advice of my friend above and plunge forward with the improvements that you'd like to make.

I'll be intermittently available for the next couple of weeks because I'm on my holidays, so if you need editing advice you're probably best asking Erik_den_yngre, or posting on Talk:Tromsø, or in the Arrivals lounge (where new Wikivoyagers can ask for help). If there's anything I can help with towards the end of the month, don't hesitate to message me again. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:08, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Edit summary

I'm a little confused when you mentioned in Special:Diff/4296266 on "Please stop editing and reediting the 'Stay safe' section of Brussels". It does seem to have a little history with this IP user, but what is wrong with this IP to plunge forward? (or am I missing something, which I probably am) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:27, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Someone (possibly several people, but most likely one person across multiple IPs) has been writing and rewriting that safety section every few weeks or months for what seems like years. It must be the most-edited Stay safe section on Wikivoyage: if it's not perfect by now, it'll never be perfect. There's plunging forward on the one hand, and there's needlessly obsessing over one small topic on the other.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Yep, okay makes sense now. Just needed some context to understand. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd say it isn't perfect at all. I don't know how long the edits have been reverted, but I suspect odd bits can have been introduced in some of them. Do we have somebody trusted who knows Brussels? Now it is a bit like "the town is totally safe, only that you really should think about where you go, and take care regardless". –LPfi (talk) 04:50, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't know anyone from Brussels, nor anyone who knows it well apart from fr.voy admin Omondi as well as banned user ArticCynda (in which he plans to block evade in two days time as per this), but at the same time, I'm not inclined to trust this IP user. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Me neither (and I wouldn't trust AC on this). The problem is I don't trust the current version either. And I see nothing on the theme in the French or Dutch versions, which otherwise could be used for comparison. –LPfi (talk) 05:09, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: Since we can't rely AC nor the IP, as well as the current version, the only user then we'd have to rely on is probably fr.voy admin Omondi. @SelfieCity:, do you know any editors who know Brussels well? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:15, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, it's a bit of luck that I know I was involved in this talk page. I haven't lived in Brussels for 6 years but my wife still works there. First, let me tell you that the meaning of this map is misinterpreted by the contributor who commented on it. The red zones only mean that the population living there is less wealthy than in the other zones and in no way that they are dangerous areas. About heavy penalties to any pedestrian caught crossing the road without taking precautions, I have never witnessed such a thing. But what is real is the zero tolerance of the police towards people who throw away cigarette butts or used chewing gum, or even spit in the street. --Omondi (talk) 18:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the response Omondi. Makes much more sense now. I'll try to copyedit it soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:40, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

English in Indonesia

Technically, under that means, we'd not list Malaysia as well, given its only official language is Bahasa Melayu. But I'd suppose @Ikan Kekek: or @The dog2: would know better on whether to list that or not. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:07, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

As far as I know, it's still possible to encounter these terms in Indonesia such as "light rail" (unlike some other non-English speaking countries where there's no regulation on which terminology to use in English). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

English was the colonial language of Malaysia, and according to our article is still widely spoken, compulsory in schools and even co-official in some parts of the country. By contrast, Indonesia#Talk says "Unlike in neighbouring Malaysia or the Philippines, English is generally not widely spoken." We don't cover non-English-speaking countries in the ELV article, except to discuss which national variety is taught in education.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:14, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

English is still compulsory to learn in Indonesian schools though. And the exact same paragraph "While English is a compulsory foreign language in Indonesian schools, expect only basic to moderate proficiency". SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:20, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have used schooling as support for my argument, since many non-English-speaking countries across the world make the study of English compulsory.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:35, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

True. The only few countries that I'm aware of, that doesn't mandate English are countries like Russia, France, Portugal, and to my surprise; South Africa (there's a map of which countries use which here). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:45, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

In France, it's compulsory to learn at least two foreign languages from the start of collège (middle school) onwards, which in practice means almost all students learn English. I imagine similar is true for Portugal.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:06, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. I guess that explains why New Caledonia has a similar situation as well. But I'm still surprised at South Africa given that English is the main language spoken in ZA. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Could simply be faulty data for ZA... --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Where are you discussing listing or not listing Malaysia? I haven't been to Malaysia since 2003, but I don't think fewer Malaysians speak English now than they did then. I don't know how widely English is spoken in Indonesia currently, but it was never that widely spoken there. English has been so widely spoken in Malaysia that there's a recognized local variety of English, Manglish, with its own grammar and vocabulary. But at least as of 2003, English was so widely spoken in big West-Coast cities like Kuala Lumpur that you could get easily by without any Malay (but I'm fluent in Malay when in practice). If this is about English language varieties, I think it's completely reasonable to mention a few words that are considered standard English (not Manglish) in Malaysia, but Indonesia is no more relevant than Germany. Do we mention the German use of "handy" for mobile phones? If so, mentioning Indonesia's use of "light rail" is OK, but I'd also say it's unimportant because the term would be very unlikely to cause any confusion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:00, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi 😊 @Ikan Kekek: Yes, we're talking about the ELV article, and no I don't think Malaysia's inclusion is up for debate.

We do refer to "handy", actually (twice, in fact). It's arguably unimportant, though it is an example of a seemingly-English word that would confuse most native speakers without context. By contrast, and as you say, "light rail" is not just English-seeming, but actually English, so stating that it's used in Indonesia in an article about varieties of English is about as useful as listing all the non-Anglo countries that use the words "metro", "shopping centre", or "internet". The article has never been about English words that have infiltrated other languages; it's about the differences between national varieties of English and the challenges they can pose for travel.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:21, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

I think "handy" is important because it could cause confusion. I fully agree with all your other points. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:24, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

It's been a long time since I went to Indonesia, but English is certainly a lot less widely spoken in Indonesia than in Malaysia. I haven't been to Jakarta so I can't comment, but my experience in Tanjung Pinang is that English wouldn't get you very far, and I had to use some of my rudimentary Malay to communicate. You will get a lot further with English in Bali though because it is a major tourism destination, and they get so many European and Australian tourists. In Malaysia, you can pretty much get by with English in Kuala Lumpur and Penang, but I found it a bit more of a challenge in Kota Kinabalu, and there were instances when I had to use whatever Malay I knew. The dog2 (talk) 20:07, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

However, I don't think there's much harm in mentioning "lebuhraya " or "light rail", given that these are only two words that are used daily. Even more for lebuhraya, there's already a line for Malaysia, so all that does is probably increase an extra 15 bytes to the page. re light rail, I don't think that also does much harm apart from adding 20 bytes to the page. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:03, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about mentioning lebuhraya, which is a Malay word. If we're going to mention that, should we also mention that Malaysians often add "-lah" at the end of English words, like "very cheap-lah"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

"-lah" is an widely used by Singaporeans too. The dog2 (talk) 15:40, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

That could be an interesting infobox for the 'Talk' section of Malaysia/Singapore or Southeast Asia.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)