User talk:Hobbitschuster

141.30.210.129, I presume?

Nice that you decided to create an account. And once again, thanks for your contributions so far! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

You are right. The main thing that kept me from doing it was deciding on a name, actually...Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

bus travel

Hobbitschuster wrote "Hi. Judging from your edits to Intercity buses in the US you know quite a bit about the subject. Do you happen to know anything about the topic in Europe?" Only in Spain and Great Britain.

Please add new topics to the bottom of this page. Also, please sign your contributions to talk pages. As to the topic at hand, I think an Intercity buses in Britain article might be helpful. Eventually we might even have a Intercity buses in Europe travel topic, but I think it makes more sense to build such a thing bottom up than top down... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:57, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Football rules

Hi. I think it's OK to very briefly explain the differences between the NFL (also also US high school and college games) and CFL (and also most Canadian university) games: The CFL requires the ball to be moved 10 yards (or is it metres in Canada?) in 3 downs (plays), rather than the 4 in the American game, and the field is wider; therefore, the Canadian game is more of a passing game. If a different number of players is used on each side, that can be mentioned, too. My feeling is, it's reasonable to explain the basic differences to someone unfamiliar with them, but I wouldn't explain the rules or basic structure (e.g., the shape of the football) of either type of football game to the Wikivoyage reader who doesn't know them, any more than I'd support explanations of headers in the article about Football in Europe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

To my knowledge Canada uses yards. In Germany the terms yards and meters are used interchangeably (neither being correct, as the field is simply defined to be 120 "yards/meters" long and - as frequently soccer fields are used - often isn't.) I was also of the impression that we needn't discuss the rules; however in the article on Ice Hockey there is such a discussion. And yes Canadian Football uses more players (I don't know the exact number any more) also the field is longer and there is the possibility of a game ending 1:0 which is impossible in American Football as the only way to score a single point is after having scored a TD. I would really like someone who knoes about College Football to fill in the blank section. Do you know whom I could ask? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I know a bit about college football. I don't think there are too many differences in rules between US college and NFL football, now that the 2-point conversion was reinstated by the NFL a few years ago, but I could be wrong.

I posted to Talk:Ice hockey in North America questioning the detailed description of game play in "Understand" in that article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:50, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Depending on the results of that discussion, it might be decided that it's appropriate to reinstate the details I deleted from the American Football article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:29, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I know a bit about the rules of the game of College Football (Germany plays according to NCAA rules where applicable) but I don't know the byzantine mode the national champion is decided and what all those bowls are all about and I don't know any teams besides Notre Dame, which I oly know because of the West Wing...Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

That's way too complicated to understand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:44, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I've restored the section about football rules and play to American Football, based on the discussion at Talk:Ice hockey in North America. I'm serious about no-one understanding how the "national champion" of US college football is chosen, though. It really is just about impossible for anyone to understand, and definitely not worth trying to explain. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Well we can't leave the section empty. And I don't know a thing about College Football; not how the Conferences are aligned or what they mean; neither who the good teams are, nor the - as discussed - impenetrable mode of selecting a champion. Imho the word "consensus" shouldn't figure in when you determine a champion. You either are or aren't. There should be no need for consensus. There is no need to find a consensus on whether apples exist, either. There is not consensus NFL champion either. But anyway; an empty section is worse than none. would you happen to know sb. to fill it in with sth.?Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:39, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know that much about these things and it's a huge mountain of information that I couldn't begin to summarize. We need to leave this task to someone who is really familiar with the college game. Might be a good candidate for a post to the Pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll post a bit, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

British English in articles about Europe

Hi, User:Hobbitschuster, and thanks as always for your great work! But do be careful not to change British to American spellings in articles such as Switzerland, as you did in this edit. If you know that Switzerland deviates from the usual European practice of officially using British English, please mention that at Talk:Switzerland, and otherwise, please change the spellings of words like honour and neighbour back. Thanks.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I was unaware of the fact that any European country besides Britain, Ireland, Cyprus or Malta has any preference either way much less an official one. I do know, that school teachers in at least some parts of Germany are at least "allowed" to speak general American and usually both spellings are taught. And as far as I can recall teachers were (or still are) advised to accept both a British as well as an American pronunciation unless the accent was deemed too "sub-standard". The same is true for Spanish at least my teacher though preferring Spanish Spanish herself was always willing to accept Latin American spelling and pronunciation were she was aware of it or could be made aware of it. That being said I thought the default "no clear historic preference" applied to pretty much all of Europe (you could for example argue that those parts of Germany that were occupied by the US post world war II would "historically" prefer AmE) so assumed that as there is - to my knowledge - no official or de facto official rule either way in Switzerland, that American English is the way to go. I know that this issue is as sensitive to some as the term "Football" being used or not being used for a specific sport, so I am willing to accept the consensus although there doesn't seem to be good justification for it in the case of most non English native speaking countries in Europe. I prefer the American spelling for personal reasons as well as the fact that it is a fractional amount closer to the way stuff is pronounced (something English is horrible at to begin with). And it is the default spelling of my spell-check. So to sum up: Didn't know don't care all that much either way, will defer to those who care more although I don't see how British English is "standard" in Switzerland but not in Nicaragua even though Nicaragua was partly colonized by the British and later a de facto vassal of the US for most of the 20th century, whereas Switzerland hasn't had more than incidental contact to either English speaking country. (besides of course former British colonies whose dictators have their money there) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

To my knowledge, British English is official for the EU. I don't know for sure what the situation is in Switzerland, which of course isn't an EU member, but I would say at least don't change existing British English to US English in articles about Europe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I just found a style guide from an EU institution suggesting British spellings, though I do think that we shouldn't let that be decided by one political entity alone. What if Britain leaves the EU and the rest of the EU decides to make American spelling or some form of hybrid (which it actually is just with more British than American elements) official? Would we than have to change all spellings in all articles on Europe? As for Switzerland there seems to be no official use as there seems to be little use for it (internal documents are translated in all four or the three most spoken official languages and private businesses may spell their English as they please). American English suffers imho (at least in spelling) from the problem that once you try a good reform and not everybody follows it (center instead of centre, favorite instead of favourite etc.) you become the weird one out. Just like the Soviet practice of using metric units in aviation or the replacement of horse powers with kilowatts in cars... I do agree that the issue is a minor one and will refrain from changing it in articles on European Union member states in the future as going against what seems to be a tenuous compromise to begin with on the spelling issue is not worth the hassle of some more or less aesthetically pleasing spellings, which is a subjective issue to begin with. Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:10, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

No, we definitely shouldn't change the spelling in European articles wholesale in the instance that the UK and Ireland leave the EU and the EU decides to adopt US English as its official English language. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I understand the inherent status quo bias in this, but I have to ask: Based on what? If the only "official" thing we have for Europe is a style guide from the European commission and that thing changes, why should we not follow "official" use and/or revert to our "default" of American English. Besides - at least in Germany - loanwords are almost universally written in the American spelling (e.g. "Shoppingcenter" not "Shoppingcentre"). Still I don't care either way, but I think for European non- EU countries the case for any variety of English - much less the British one - being official is shaky at best. For the EU it is based on basically one style guide that I think most Europeans aren't even aware of. (and the official working language of the EU seems to be English with a bad German accent or French anyway these days ;-) ) Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I personally don't really care, except that I'd like for varieties of English not to be changed without there being a really good reason and, as a very distant second, don't want articles about the same area of the world to be inconsistently in different varieties of English. But I think it would be fine for you to advance your argument at Wikivoyage talk:Spelling. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Your recent edits on Germany are still consistently using American English spellings. It may be that you actually never learnt how spell in the British English way, so perhaps you would like to use a different spell check from your browser? Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

I was taught to in school, but teachers never really cared either way as long as it was somewhat consistent. As I also write on topics where US English is preferred, I rather not change the spell-check. I really don't think it is all that important anyway. Yes there are some chosen few articles that lose from being inconsistent but there is a whole bunch of articles that have a two line get in section for a whole continent or a town with a major port airport and public transport connection. I do not do it on purpose, but I must ask: is it all that important? If need be you can change it back. I won't edit war over this. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:38, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

It may interest you to know that I would prefer just all the articles are in American English and that would be an end to it.

However the consensus is to contribute to WV on the basis that Ikan has stated above. If you think this consensus is pointless and keep spelling in that way then you will inevitably go against the collaborative spirit of the site. I guess we are politely asking that you don't do that. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah sorry. I am a little over-tired and should probably go to sleep right now. What I wanted to say is: It was with no ill intent and my sometimes less than perfect English spelling is aided by a spellcheck. I use an American one and I am sorry, that it sometimes gives me American spellings where British ones are expected. I know that this whole spelling issue seems to be a very tenuous compromise of sorts because passions on both sides seem to be high. I would honestly not have a problem to write in all British, but than I would get people angry when I make a quick contribution on - say - Nicaragua and it is spelled in British English (as the policy says we should write American English there). This whole thing reminds me a little bit of that one time the pope divided the whole world between Portugal and Spain, and now someone in WV calls the shot whether countries that don't really speak all that much English prefer American or British. Anyway. I am probably not making much sense now so let me say this: I am sorry, I try to eliminate such behavio(u)r in the future if and where possible. I hope it doesn't distract too much from the more or less useful contributions I may have made from time to time ;-) Best wishes and good night Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

USA edit

First, thanks for your many edits and additions lately - overall I think they've been excellent. I'm not sure about this edit though - does a traveler really care about that level of political detail? In my travels I honestly don't care about the political parties in a country unless they affect me directly as a traveler, and such edits in the past have led to extensive arguments and edit warring by those with strong opinions on the subject. WV:Be fair#Political disputes is the closest official policy we have on this subject, and it is not directly applicable to your edit, but my preference would be to leave details on political ideologies out of our guides unless they are directly relevant to travelers. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you in principle but the word liberal is used extensively in the US (including in the article you reference just one or two paragraphs to the bottom) and thus I thought it needed an explanation, because "liberal" in the US means something very different from e.g. the "liberal" FDP in Germany. Maybe it is better to cut it down to one sentence along the lines of "in the US liberals are usually understood to be at the left end of the political spectrum, much like Socialists and Social Democrats are in Europe". Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I think it's fine to have something brief, but I'd call liberals in the US left-of-center, not "on the left end," which is a phrase that suggests a more extreme leftist position to me. Of course, others would consider them far left. So it's best to just say that they're considered to be relatively left-wing in an American context, with the conservatives comparatively right-wing, and leave it at that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I can live with that. Though mentioning certain political areas that usually serve as "litmus tests" might be a good idea as "left" and "right" all by themselves aren't all that meaningful. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I edited the article, apparently while the above discussion was ongoing, to remove the new addition and replace the instance of "liberal" (that was called out as problematic) with the word "progressive". We've had discussions of red-vs-blue and such before (see Talk:United States of America/Archive 2006#Revert of the day for the first of many), and the consensus is almost always that these tidbits are irrelevant for travelers but great for generating edit wars, so unless there is a good reason to include this stuff I'd strongly suggest we just leave it out. -- Ryan • (talk) • 21:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Not to start a whole new discussion, but I have found that 80% or more of edits to the USA page tend to come full circle in two to three days tops. Either this article is next to perfect and can't be approved upon, or it has a very strong status quo bias. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Ryan, if the point is to give visitors from the rest of the world, where "liberal" refers to classical liberalism (after Adam Smith), useful, explanatory background, I believe that replacing "liberal" with "progressive" instead of including both is unhelpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:12, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I didn't mean to upset Hobbitschuster and apologize if I've done so. Please revert my latest change if desired. I'll bow out, but with the final note that when we're talking about classical liberalism we've strayed pretty far from travel writing. -- Ryan • (talk) • 21:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Regardless of the differences between liberalism and libertarianism , I'd agree with Ryan that it isn't actually in the scope of a travel guide. High level discussion of the political landscape in the United States is certainly valid, but we do serve the traveller best by keeping it concise and easy to understand. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Libertarianism doesn't need to be mentioned at all, but saying in a single sentence that the Democrats are the liberal/progressive party that is considered to be relatively left-wing in the US context and that the Republicans are the conservative party that's comparatively right-wing is surely fine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

On Railway Stocks

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage:Joke_articles/Time_travel&oldid=2741556

See also w:George Hudson, whose collapse is all too contemporary to a post Madoff world. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Discover

Hi! Thanks for adding the Managua fun fact to the Discover section. However, facts should be added to Wikivoyage:Discover (not to the archive) and this is where I moved it. I've also improved the instructions on the page, because I noticed they were very misleading (you aren't the first one to add facts to the archive :)). ϒpsilon (talk) 14:46, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. There are probably some other trivia about places I might want to add info about. For example that the East Frisian islands are car-free, or that there is a paragraph of German federal law (StVO) that explicitly forbids cars and limits bikes on the island of Heligoland. But the articles are not yet up to par, sadly... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

outline to usable of Germany

I do agree that this article should be at least usable or maybe even guide but technically it is still outline as some of the Other Destinations listed on the page are still Germany#Other destinations are still at outline. Most could be usable but some need more work to their city articles. --Traveler100 (talk) 13:52, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Please don't feed the trolls

re: User talk:2602:304:AF53:3E99:A935:54D:5B3F:9FC‎ please see w:Wikipedia:Deny recognition. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:25, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

sorry Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

European History

Would this template be better? {{EuropeHistory}}. Would then only need to update in one place. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:53, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea. But what do we do if the history of Europe gets too unwieldy and we have to split it up? Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Scrap the idea of a header list and just go back to links on the topic parent page; split into multiple template; make it a collapsed- expandable text block. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:29, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

help with chester maine

when u get a chance could u help? thanks. --Thahouseusers2015 (talk) 22:47, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I know nothing about the place. I only put in the standard section headings, as we structure all our destination guides (roughly) the same way. I may have time to look over some formatting and stylistic issues of what you write tomorrow, though. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Redford

Hi, Hobbit. If you're going to essentially remove an article (in this case by redirecting it) that has routeboxes, you have to also remove the article from the routebox sequence. Note that Saranac Lake, for instance, still links to Redford in its routebox. But Redford no longer has a routebox, because it's a redirect, so the routebox chain has been broken. Powers ^(talk) 16:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Okay. I didn't know about that. What do I have to do now? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

For each city adjacent to Redford in its routeboxes (in this case, Saranac Lake and Plattsburgh), you need to replace Redford with the next destination. In the case of Plattsburgh, you can just replace Redford with Saranac Lake and be fine. But for Saranac Lake, it's trickier. The next destination is Plattsburgh, which is a major destination. When that happens, we show the next two major destinations (instead of a minor and a major as normal). You can look at the last Redford edit before your redirect to see how it was done. Powers ^(talk) 01:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Small places

Can I just keep doing like I am and let someone else decide whether or not to merge any excessively tiny place into articles on broader areas? I have no knowledge of or interest in these areas beyond their fossil content, so I don't know which should be merged and which shouldn't. It would be a lot easier for me if I could just leave it up to a more experienced editor to do so whenever one decides to significantly expand the content about the region. Abyssal (talk) 22:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

You can. But if, say, 30 (a number I'm just pulling out of my hat) new articles have to be redirected, that's a fair amount of work. So I wouldn't presume to try to tell you what to do, but you could possibly see what other things to see and do a local tourism office (if there is any) mentions, and also look at the travel-related content in the equivalent Wikipedia article (if any). Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:48, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

An alternative would also be to add fossil information to existing articles, and in cases where the article doesn't yet exist, add the fossil-collecting information to the relevant region article. That way if and when a town article is created the info can be moved in from the region article, and the approach saves others the work of having to sort through 30 skeleton town articles to figure out what to do with them. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Ikan and Ryan Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:57, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Edits

You are welcome!... I have a tendency to float around recently edited articles and see if I can help out even a little bit. - Matroc (talk) 00:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I can say one thing i was addressing the traveller which mostly unaware of real vrindavan historical temples. And in vrindavan more than 5000 temples but somehow traveller visit only new architecture of temples but not that temples which were historical so i was addressing that part with near to my budgetery stay Guest house if traveller visit vrindavan I guarantee i gave them stay safe free visit in just £ so you can say as a promotion in your point but we are in center of historical temples of vrindavan and Yamuna river are just 200 meter far you daily feel that marvolos view .My edit just for the traveller which don't carry so much money want to visit reality of vrindavan and want to feel peace as well so they can stay long and safe free with £ rs enjoy the marvolos moments

Girriraj Bhawan Bengali Ashram (talk) 06:51, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry Hobbitschuster

Why did you delete mine edits? only because you think yours are better. I can prove you it isn't. Why you delete Dordrecht , only because you truly think Nijmegen is the oldest. I am an Dutchmen on my own , so I know what I am doing here! You not ever been there I saw on your wiki. So why you still don't allow me to add content? What wrong with you?

First of all, please sign your contributions on talk pages by posting this "~" symbol (the tilde) four times in a row. Second of all, there is a rule that we only allow a maximum of nine cities in non bottom level regions ( see here). If you think your city deserves mentioning in the country page, another one has to be removed from the list and that requires consensus at the talk page of the respective country first. You can argue your point there. Unilateral changes without searching consensus will be reverted. I do think most other longer time users would have done the same. I hope that clears that up. Please raise your issue at talk:Netherlands. All the best 21:11, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

it:voy

Please take a look at your talk page. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Please check again. --Andyrom75 (talk) 18:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

it:Rostock has been saved :-) and it:Wismar is almost done: check again the missing QuickbarCity parameters. --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I think it:Wismar is done as well... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I've added the official website for Wismar. Now I just need to know an info for the popoluation then it's done (see your talk). --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:54, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Here I've left you some suggestions to copmlete the Quickbar. While here some suggestion for the Quickfooter. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:20, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:39, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

To facilitate your job, I've left you a table on your talk page where you can see the status of the various articles that you have created and what is missing to do to avoid their deletion. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I've update content status. --Andyrom75 (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Update it again. We should be very close :-) --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:34, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

When I was talking of the image, I wasn't referring to the banner (although when missing it should be added as well) --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Please try to complete the last missing information on the Quickbar. --Andyrom75 (talk) 11:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

In this category you can find the articles with missing image, please check yours in order to fix them. PS With the image should be insert a caption in its relevant parameter. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:56, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

No problem for ignoring the request to complete the stubs that you have created on it:voy, but please for the future try to not start what you are not willing to finish. The spirit of it:voy is not to have a big amount of "empty contaiers". Thanks for your understanding. --Andyrom75 (talk) 15:28, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying earlier, I am quite confused as to what and how you expect me to do. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

My personal approach when I do not understand something is to ask questions. However, as said above don't worry, I've posted a message in the lounge to look for any volunteer that would be willing to remedy. Let me only add that if you will stop again on it:voy, you'll be more than welcome, but do NOT create more than one article at time, and start to create the following one only after the first one is completed according to the it:voy principles. Thanks for your understanding. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:52, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

ok. Well my problem is still that I don't understand by which criteria the image is chosen and what to put under its description. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Any nice image representative of the place, with a description of it. It's like: "what to write inside an article?" ....it's up to you. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:19, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I'll look into it those days, but I am not sure I will have much time today Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:29, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

No problem. I've published an help request in the lounge so few volunteers have helped. Maybe if want to improve your drafts you can add other places where to eat/sleep/drink instead of one. But feel free. --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:45, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

New Joisey

My friend, thanks for all your great work, but are you joking with your redirects of Joisey and New Joisey? What's next, redirecting "Nawlins" to New Orleans and "Lawn Guyland" to Long Island? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

You are right. It probably does not qualify as a "common misspelling" (from which a redirect is ok). On the other hand, I could not think of any actual place of that name... and it prevents jocular folks from creating something along the lines of our article on Dixie... But yeah, I won't raise objections if you delete this. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Dixie is an actual alternate name for the South. "Joisey" is just a local pronunciation, not an alternate name, and people write it out that way only as a joke. If you're sure you're OK with deleting these redirects, I could do it on the basis of "author request". Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:03, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, what good is there in keeping them? They do no harm, but apparently they don't do any good, either... Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I can't see anyone searching for New Jersey under such spellings. I'll delete the redirects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Newbies

Heya, I saw your attempts to fix the IP's efforts to create Herzberg am Harz. I'd like to encourage you to wait a while before jumping in on new articles (both from new and established users), even if there are obvious mistakes/omissions. For many people, it's rather frustrating when they're just starting to work on something and someone else starts creating edit conflicts within a few minutes. Especially for newbies, that can get rather confusing too. When they're just editing, it's the best time to welcome new users and point them in the right direction via their talk page. Most of them don't know the concept of edit summaries yet, but many will notice the talk page message. Just wanted to make you aware ;-) JuliasTravels (talk) 12:40, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Well some of this user's other edits have been borderline problematic, but I get your point. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:39, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I undid your edit on Monschau (where you added the "could benefit from translation" tag) for the exact same reason as what I mentioned above. It's really a matter of courtesy to refrain from jumping in and tagging articles when someone is clearly working on a new article. I'll let you edit the article as you please for now, and get back to it later. No tags needed for now, though. If you want to actually write subsections for getting in by bus and train, that's fine. If you're only going to create empty subsections however, that's not really an improvement. Cheers, JuliasTravels (talk) 12:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe...

Instead of going around asking people whether or not I'am a vandal it would be well to know iam not a vandal as i left a message on ryan's talk page asking him to unblock my other account thahouseusers2015. Just saying. Maybe i should work on USA only? I dont mean to sound prejudice. --Gol929 (talk) 13:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Plus i have skitzophrenia. --Gol929 (talk) 13:26, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry if my asking more experienced contributors for help offends you, but I wanted to see what their insight could offer to the discussion at hand. If you are indeed the other user that has already been blocked, you are most likely going to be blocked in a short time hence, as circumventing a block does not fly here... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:27, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

You people dont care about me. --Gol929 (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

what kind of response are you expecting? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:30, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

To keep me on the site and not block me indef. --Gol929 (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

look at my user page please. maybe you can be informed. --Gol929 (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

While I have not followed the reasons for your original block, I trust that they were justified and you reappearing under a different user name does not indeed help your case. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Whatever --Gol929 (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I'am a human being just like ryan or anyone else. --Gol929 (talk) 13:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Bush planes

Would bush planes deserve an article on their own? Added to WV:RA in any case. /Yvwv (talk) 22:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe. But I don't know much about them. Although I may have once flown with an airline that might be considered as meeting (some of) the criteria. Which would imho be:

1. small airplanes, often Cessna or similar small propeller craft
2. flying primarily or also into / out of runways that aren't much more than paved dirt
3. rather short distances for some flights / rather long distance (at least for the size of the craft) on others
4. flights where ground transport is unavailable /onerous (e.g. a 50 min. flight or a 24 hour bus ride)
5. Government subsidized to provide "access" or "essential airservice", sometimes for political reasons (e.g. claim on distant territories, enticing settlement of remote areas etc.)

Numbers one two and four apply for la costeña, but I am not sure about three and five. I will certainly have a look if and when the article is created. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:04, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

An award for you!

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	As one of the most active editors here as of lately, please have a barncompass! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Well thank you, is all I can say to that. I hope to deserve it in times to come as much as now ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

California high speed rail

I removed the comment about high-speed rail from the Yosemite article since that project is still more than a decade from being operational, and there is a good chance that funding will be pulled and it may never become operational. It would great to have a high-speed train in California, but the currently proposed project is still a long way from becoming reality. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:55, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

If Wikipedia is to be believed trains will run over a significant portion of the route as early as 2022 (seven years from now) and the San Joaquin is scheduled to use newly constructed tracks (at faster speeds than currently possible) as early as 2019 (four years from now), once construction reaches Bakersfield. While funding may still be pulled away from the project, I think that for several reasons this won't happen

1. HSR and pro HSR candidates have consistently won at the polls, most notably Governor Brown
2. Unlike the failed Texas project of the 1980s and 1990s no major airline is openly opposed to the project
3. No court challenge came even close to stopping the project
4. Once a certain amount of track is laid and especially once trains starts running, the project gains a sort of momentum that is hard for even the most hardline politicians to stop
5. Even assuming (which I quite frankly deem to be laughable) no additional funding through 2022, current funding provides for more than the cost through 2022, at which point momentum will make killing the project politically undesirable

In short, I am quite confident that the project will happen and that it will eventually link San Francisco and Los Angeles at 2h40 travel time or faster even though some uncertainties remain. What can be considered as certain as almost anything that concerns the future is that the Central Valley parts will get built. Fresno, Bakersfield, Merced and others will get significant rail improvements, including better travel times and new stations (which is in essence what I was getting at in the Yosemite article). But I guess the project is inherently controversial because it goes against a lot of "common wisdom" in the US, so the American media like to overstate the risks and underestimate the benefits. Similar things seem to be happening with HS2 in the United Kingdom - though that project is probably wildly overpriced (still worth it, but if you compare the per km cost to other HSR systems, something seems to be wrong with it). The point being: The project will come and I will gladly edit the articles accordingly in the 2020s if you deem it too early to do so now... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:37, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

I hope you're right - as a California resident and an engineer I've avidly followed every development on this project since before the ballot measure in 2008 up through (finally) the start of construction earlier this year in Fresno. That said, I think it's best to hold off on updating articles to reference California high speed rail until the project has made enough progress that there is more certainty about timing, service, etc. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:56, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

You may want to see the oblique reference in the California article than... as well as the sentence in the US without a car one. And on the issue: Yes I also very much hope the project gets built the way it was promised and is currently scheduled to be built. As a matter of fact, I fully intend to ride the train as close to opening day as possible. San Francisco is very high on my bucket list indeed, and I quite enjoyed myself in SoCal when I was there and do fully intend to go there again if the opportunity arises Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:01, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Admin?

Hi, Hobbitschuster. You are a very active editor who's been involved in all kinds of work and discussions about how to improve this guide. If you'd like to have access to a few additional tools that will enable you to more easily roll back vandalism and block spammers, let me know. I haven't discussed this with anyone, but I doubt you'd get opposition to an admin nomination, if you'd be willing to accept that role.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:40, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I will have to think about it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure. It's fine either way, and there's no rush. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Hobbitschuster, so what do you think? --Danapit (talk) 11:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

To be honest, I fear I lack the patience, especially vis-a-vis newbies to do the job. Given that things I have written or done seem to in more than one case have caused a newbie to cease contributing, me being a mod might not be to the best of the wiki, after all. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Completely up to you, but as an Admin I mostly just clean up clear vandalism when I see it. Most of the discussed issues about biting newbies (as far as I can tell) do not actually require Admin tools. I've noted that you have taken proactive steps to gain clarifications regarding 'grey' areas of policy, which is the right thing for an admin to do --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

I see you doing great job actively participating in policy discussion in a constructive way, so I believe you have a very good knowledge of the site's policies in the meanwhile, which is another prerequisite of an admin. I'm not pushing you into a rush decision, just noticed your good work and wanted to mention it. Danapit (talk) 08:32, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Varieties of English

Guten Abend, Hobbitschuster. Thanks for reverting one of my edits. I plan to be brutal so it's good that other editors are making sure I don't go too far. I can see how the information is useful to voyagers, with one exception. The origin of the British word nappy. Since they were called napkins in the past, it's not useful information to today's travellers. Anyway, I'd like to delete that bit again, as long as you don't oppose. If not, well there are other more important things :-) Dankeschön --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure. But let's have the in depth discussion tomorrow or at some other time Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Of course :-) If you make it known on the talk page that you want to discuss it further, I'll gladly join in. And I'll hold off on further edits to the page until then. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:59, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

sorry

Hi, this is Ibaman from a smartphone. I tried to improve the part on Apicius and think I might have removed quite a good chunk of your very good prose. On a desktop I would now salvage and put it back. Ill do it tomorrow. Lets hammer it to Star. Best wishes

No problem. I know how finicky a smartphone can be... Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

LA to Panama by bus

OK, I know it's bad to tout stuff here. Nevertheless I stumbled upon a travel video series on Youtube that I thought you may find very interesting and entertaining. A guy travels from overland from Los Angeles to Panama using public transportation. (His other travel adventures are also interesting) ϒpsilon (talk) 19:54, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Will look at it once I get time to. There also was a documentary on the Panamericana some time ago on German TV.... Where they skipped exactly one country: Nicaragua :( Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

crown princes

hey if you have time check out mangkunegara and pakualaman on wp en - they were mirror image crown prince dynasties in central java, nothing unusual about them ,it was the dutch trying to pay off on the divide and rule stuff... not just age, but heredity and generations of them JarrahTree (talk) 00:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Chains

I noticed the editing on [Böblingen] about the Subway branch.

I'm not sure if it is enshrined in policy as such, but yes we do tend not to list chains. For major cities that is fairly obvious. For smaller towns like this I guess exceptions can be made. My own memories of Böblingen is that it wasn't a tourist destination and there were not a huge amount of options. Hope the POV helps! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

It is my understanding not to mention boring places. Chain restaurants, especially the fast food variety seem to definitely fall into that category, save for exceptions like the architecturally interesting golden m in Erlangen. Though small places that would be devoid of listings otherwise might be an exception. I don't know. I am at a loss when it comes to most aspects of our coverage of rural areas. As a further aside "Böblingen bei Stuttgart" is mentioned as a boring place that is contrasted with Berlin in the Kraftklub song "Ich will nicht nach Berlin" Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

A lot of thanks for highlighting the rural areas coverage on the pub. It has good momentum so I'll help when I have something to give. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Bad Orb

Hi you have been to Germany maybe you know a few things about Bad Orb? --2604:6000:9EC3:7A00:5871:10EB:F180:4DD3 21:44, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

This is the first time I hear of the place, tbh. Sorry about that. If you want to go there, do ask in the Tourist Office Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:03, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

No i dont want to go there i added the loc. --2604:6000:9EC3:7A00:D94A:96A0:A5A0:E99 22:05, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Your nominations at VfD

Hobbitschuster, we all greatly appreciate your efforts in improving our travel guides. That said, please stop nominating real places for deletion. It's against policy and wastes everyone's time. If you want to ask whether a place should be redirected, start a discussion on the article's talk page. Link to it from the Pub or from Wikivoyage:Requests for comment, but don't use the VfD page. Thanks. Powers ^(talk) 21:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

If the only thing that can happen to real places i redirection and the vast majority of our pages covers real places, why do we even have vfd? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Travel topics, itineraries, and other non-places and non-articles. Powers ^(talk) 21:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Wolfsburg

Out of interest how well do you know Wolfsburg. Looking for a good hotel recommendation. In past have stayed at the Holiday Inn which has now change ownership (was not impressed), also stayed at the Seehotel am Tankumsee, which is nice but not practical in the winter if risk of snow and have stayed at a couple of others but cannot remember which but were nothing special. --Traveler100 (talk) 11:56, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I've been there twice (once a day trip and once visiting family) but I could not give you a hotel recommendation, as I have not stayed in a hotel on either of my visits. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:12, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Bad Wildungen

What do you mean with Bad Wildungen is used by one German comedian as the prime example of a rural bland German town. Is it really urgent we cover places like that? in the revision history of Kassel? Please answer at my German Wikivoyage user talk page. MfG -- Feuermond16 (talk) 18:02, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

What I wanted to say with that is that of all those redlinks, "Bad Wildungen" was the only one that rang a bell, mostly only because Dieter Nuhr used to use it as a token punching bag. And I just questioned the value to have this article end with a huge list of redlinks. But I have of course been proven wrong on that before, so what do I know? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Kassel

Kurz auf deutsch: Werde demnächst anfangen pro Sehenswürdigkeit einen kleinen Text zu verfassen und habe noch zwei kurze Fragen: 1. Dürfte ich auf diesen englischen Zeitungsartikel von theguardian.com (Ranking) verweisen, oder würde der sofort mit Hinweis auf nicht erwünschte Links oder ähnliches entfernt werden? Und 2. Könntest du mir sagen, wie man am besten Deutschlands einzige Galerie für Komische Kunst übersetzen könnte? MfG -- Feuermond16 (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Komische Kunst könnte man womöglich mit "humorous art" übersetzen, aber eine kurze google-Suche lässt mich anzweifeln, dass die Aussage haltbar oder sinnvoll ist. Zumindest Museen, scheint es auch anderswo zu geben. Gallerie in dem Sinne scheint sich wohl mit "art gallery" halbwegs treffend wiedergeben zu lassen, aber wie gesagt es erscheint mir nicht ganz klar ob der Unterschied zwischen einem Museum für komische Kunst und einer Galerie für komische Kunst den durchschnittlichen Besucher derselben so brennend interessiert. Üblicherweise hat ja jedes Museum heutzutage einen Museumsshop wo man zumindest Nachahmungen erstehen kann... Wenn man in der erwähnten Galerie Originale kaufen kann sollte das natürlich gesondert erwähnt werden. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:45, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Archiving

Archived discussions Talk:Hong Kong/Archive 2003-2012

Hi, just wanted to say thanks for archiving some bloated talk pages. I've also done some of this in the past and thought I'd make some suggestions:

1. The Infobox above makes it a bit clearer that archives are available
2. Try and avoid archiving region and city district discussions (to be clear, I have not seen you do this yourself).
3. Avoid archiving any section that may possess permanent relevance
4. Discussions that occurred on the legacy WT site (2013 and before) are prime for archival. Anything after migration somewhat less so.

These are just pointers, and not policy in any shape or form. Good luck!

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:37, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:56, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank You

	Thank You
	Thank you for the encouragement. I don't want to use the template, however. I want to make it my own way so I don't have any empty spaces on my page. Sonicparty64 (talk) 18:46, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome. Apparently I should have used the WV:small city article template. However, in general our articles should contain the standard top level headings. We have recently deviated from this for regions (which may omit empty sections) and don't follow them as closely for travel topics, but for cities we still have the "==" level in full for all our articles. Some subheadings of the "===" level are of course optional. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

2 items

I cross-referenced Urban rail adventures from Underground works for obvious reasons.

Also I was wondering if you could help massively expand the outline I started at Paranormal tourism which is rather short at present. I've mentioned a few more obvious items, but would really appreciate it if someone went into more depth. I've not yet included Dark Peak and so on, because of phrasing concerns. I'm alsop minded to leave out locations that whilst connected with nominal pranormal events, took place on "private propety" and thus aren't actually accessible to a casual tourist. 11:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

For the first point: Thanks. Good catch. To the latter... I don't know whether I can help you there... Generally speaking I see the purported "paranormal" as mumbo-jumbo designed to cheat gullible people out of their money or in some cases massive self-delusion on the part of the promoters of such (and it's really hard to tell which is more dangerous, the con-people or the true believers...) and as such my interest in this topic is extremely limited and I even somewhat doubt its place on WV. Sure, some people will undoubtedly travel for that reason, but as with our sex tourism policy there are areas which we deliberately do not cover... In any case we should avoid even the semblance of promoting pseudo-science as this is a reputation that travels far and wide on the internet in no time and can do incredible harm in even shorter time. But I'll see what I can do. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

You can re-word the lede - I have an obvious skeptical bias, but things like the Pendle Witch trail exist. The aim was not to cover the "bloke from the pub, whose had too many of the local scrumpy" told me fringe stuff (which is why I've not used the W word directly.) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:28, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Your view sounds like you are the perfect person to right a Stay Safe/Stay Alert section, that exposes paranormal scams encountered by the traveller( Faith Healers being one. ), As I've said under Occult Esoterica, much magic relies on the sucessptibility of the willing. Just because the Heading is Paranormal Toursim doesn't mean the contributors to it have to think the phenomena are genuine. Perhaps there should be a wider disscussion at the travellers pub> Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:32, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Deserts

We have an article on safety in cold regions, not one for arid regions though? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Re Ancient Alien narratives

Thank you, They certainly aren't theories in the 'scientific' sense! XD Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Botanical tourism

Whilst, my previous effort might be controversial (and if you think it's gettng problematic I won't object to it it going).

However, I thought something like Botanical tourism might be useful. It's only a very sketchy outline, but could be improved considerably, and going to look at Kew Gardens (for example) is firmly within scope :). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC) (Sfan00_IMG is my alternate account, which I am in the process of "closing" on some wikis due to policy changes.)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Mazes

Created in userspace as I have no idea what to put in it yet.

Comes under the heading of "Activites" as a travel topic mostly, but there are some notable mazes that have historical importance like the floor design in Chartes Cathedral, and the one at Hampton Court. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Paranormal tourism

Given the rapid progess on two other travel topics I suggested, and the seeming lack of progess here, I can't see a reasonable way to improve it in the neutral traveller friendly way other topics are. You had already expressed serious concerns about this topic on the talk page. At present I don't even think a compromise of a re-title to Fringe Phonemena would work.

As things are done considerably more informally here, I am therefore strongly suggesting that even though it was well-intentioned, that the portions of the article that can be merged elsewhere are, and that we have an understanding that fringe esoterica are not something Wikivoyage should generally promote.

Given that I have no objections to the Topic's removal, potentially without further discussion. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Arminius

Hey Hobbit, it must be mentioned, Martin Luther himself used to talk and digress about Arminius/Hermann. I think it was probably he who came up with this "translation". Too busy to research in this very moment, but I'm pretty sure about this bit. Ibaman (talk) 13:57, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

You are right. He said something about having him "von Herzen lip" (or whatever the spelling back then was). But the real Hermann-craziness was 19th century. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:16, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Please check

I added two phrases to the German handbook. Please check them and fix spelling and grammar as needed. Ich spreche fast kein einziges Wort Deutsch, and I can spell even fewer of them. ;-) WhatamIdoing (talk) 10:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I think it's fine, though another native speaker might have a different idea. I am not sure whether to put "stark" allergisch "sehr" allergisch or some combination, though. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Brownsville (Texas)

Hello, just wanted to ask a question. How did you find out about this article? Rarely does one update it? Are you from the area? De88 (talk) 02:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Now, but I have Ikan's talk page on my watchlist. And I have an extension turned on (you can find it under "preferences") that shows when a country code is missing and given that this error message is rather prominent, I decided to do something about it. I have never been to the area, I am sorry to say. DFW airport is the closest I have ever been to "being in Texas". Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:16, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

That's fine. Just thought you were a local, like myself. Thanks for updating the area code numbers. Didn't realize country codes were vital in these articles. Hope you do take a trip done here. It's really nice, except for the humidity. The area has some breathtaking views. De88 (talk) 02:23, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

There's so many places and so little time... I might, but right now Nicaragua is further up my list ;-). And yeah it's not vital, but since I switched on that extension it's kinda become a pet peeve of mine. By the way, when I first started editing here I was also quite surprised to see articles on Nicaragua edited shortly after I had edited them; as it turned out this is/was almost entirely due to recent change patrol; I think I am the only "regular" around here who has been to Nicaragua. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:28, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I have similar pet peeves when it comes to organization. It surprised me when Ikan found out about the page and then you as well. Then I fount out about the recent change patrol and it made sense. You're a big fan of Nicaragua as I can tell. I also feel like the only "regular" when editing articles about Brownsville. It would be nice if more locals started editing on here. You can only do so much to give foreigners and domestic tourists a glimpse into what they can expect to see about your hometown. De88 (talk) 02:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree with you. A small thing, I've seen there are two or three dead links in the article. It's much easier for a local to find out whether the reason is due to the website moving / not working any more or due to the business behind the website shutting down. Could you check that? And another thing, if you edit a listing and consider it up to date, there is a box in the listing editor you can check which will give the date when it was last marked up to date to our readers. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:45, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. If you don't mind, do you know which links are dead? I tried my best in removing old links as the article was messy and old before I started editing it. De88 (talk) 02:56, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

The link for the listing number 2 under the "theater" headline. There should be {{ dead link}} or something in the wikicode behind it. If you can fix the link remove that afterwards. Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I know why the link is dead. The theatre belonged to University of Texas at Brownsville but after the merger of UTB and its nearby college, University of Texas Pan-American, anything related with UTB was removed. The new place, University of Texas Rio Grande Valley took over everything. Thanks! De88 (talk) 03:05, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

phone numbers in Germany

Hi Hobbitschuster, I've seen that you have removed the trailing zero in area codes in my listing (zero in brackets in +49 (0)...). Has there been a discussion regarding the format? My feeling that it would be strongly useful for foreigners to see that they must dial a zero when doing a call here in Germany and I would therefore suggest to leave it here. Buan~dewiki (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't know about any discussions regarding this, but there is an optional extension (you can turn it on by clicking "Preferences" on the top of the screen and then the "Gadgets" tab where the "Error highlighter" is listed under "experimental".) which I mostly follow. Turning that extension on shows you a warning message whenever phone numbers are in the wrong format. Unfortunately, the zero in brackets is considered a "wrong" format by this extension and I have followed its advice. You can of course bring this up at the Travellers Pub, as I frankly do not know where else such a discussion should be held. Best wishes. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks; I will try to bring that up -- it is certainly not an error to have the zero (at least formally, the brackets indicate a number only necessary under certain conditions) Buan~dewiki (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from, but I am frankly ignorant as to whether implementing such an exception would cause more technological problems than it's worth. Furthermore, I think most people calling those numbers without the leading +49 will know that a zero is required without it being there in brackets. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:59, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

CarGo tram?

is there any point in mentioning the CarGo tram on the Dresden page anymore? As far as I know they are now only run occasionally to "air them out" a little. There doesn't seem much chance for visitors to see them. Griffindd (talk)

You are probably right. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:38, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Reading while travelling

for me it's a special pleasure to read a novel/book about a place while actually in that place. Sometimes I find it helpful to read novels about a place before I go there. Do you think there is room for suggestions about that kind of reading here? Griffindd (talk) 09:35, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Sure. But I would not just limit it to books. Movies or TV series might also enhance the travel experience or inspire travel in the first place. Have a look at the sections of our guides on Berlin , Washington DC or Chicago to see how something like that might look like. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

ah---literature and movies as headings. ok. I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for pointing that out. Griffindd (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The section headings are Read and Watch. You can see them (well, Read, at least) at Wikivoyage:Article templates/Sections#Understand. Powers ^(talk) 21:50, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Well apparently many articles do not use the correct headings then, but you are of course correct in that we have a verb based approach to section headings. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

bus aggregator

even if users are not allowed to find out in articles, I would like to know: which is the best bus aggregator? Griffindd (talk) 07:14, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Have you had a look here already? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

ah. well that's the German version of what I had linked. Griffindd (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Be my guest to mention more on the talk page. And you can of course raise the issue of aggregators in some appropriate place (the pub for starters). Maybe we might want to reconsider our stance and modify it as to have a very small handfull of pages where aggregators are listed, which makes the task of maintenance much less daunting. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

The information is corrected according to historical facts. Asiento system

While the Portuguese were directly involved in trading enslaved peoples, the Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. During the first Atlantic system most of these traders were Portuguese, giving them a near-monopoly during the era. Dutch, English, and French traders also participated in the slave trade P. C. Emmer, The Dutch in the Atlantic Economy, 1580–1880. Trade, Slavery and Emancipation (1998), p. 17.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The Asiento was the permission given by the Spanish government to other countries to sell people as slaves to the Spanish colonies, between the years 1543 and 1834.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In British history, it usually refers to the contract between Spain and Great Britain created in 1713 that dealt with the supply of African slaves for the Spanish territories in the Americas. The British government passed its rights to the South Sea Company.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The slave trade was complex, but frankly many European countries were involved and Spain was no exception. Using legal terminologies to suggest otherwise is very unfortunate. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

There is a huge difference between direct participation in the slave trade and the asiento system. Believe me. I am a man who has recently earned a PhD in British and Spanish history. Also I have a PhD in Latin American history.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In the 1650s Spain sought to enter the slave trade directly, sending ships to Angola to purchase slaves and toying with the idea of a military alliance with Kongo, the powerful African kingdom north of Angola. But these ideas were abandoned and the Spanish returned to Portuguese and then Dutch interests to supply slaves. Later in history, Britain and Holland dominated the slave trade. The slaves were sent mostly to the New World colonies.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The Treaty of Utrecht granted Britain an Asiento lasting 30 years to supply the Spanish colonies with 4,800 slaves per year. Britain was permitted to open offices in Buenos Aires, Caracas, Cartagena, Havana, Panama, Portobello and Vera Cruz to arrange the slave trade. --181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

First of all, please sign all your contributions on talk pages by typing the "tilde" (~ this symbol) four times in a rwo (like this: ~~~~) secondly, surely we can find some compromise wording all sides can live with. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:59, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

By July the South Sea Company had arranged contracts with the Royal African Company to supply the necessary African slaves to Jamaica. £10 was paid for a slave aged over 16, £8 for one under 16 but over 10. Two-thirds were to be male, and 90% adult. The company trans-shipped 1,230 slaves from Jamaica to America in the first year, plus any that might have been added (against standing instructions) by the ship's captains on their own behalf. On arrival of the first cargoes, the local authorities refused to accept the Asiento, which had still not been officially confirmed there by the Spanish authorities. The slaves were eventually sold at a loss in the West Indies.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In 1714 the government announced that a quarter of profits would be reserved for the Queen and a further 7.5% for a financial advisor, Manasseh Gilligan. Some Company board members refused to accept the contract on these terms, and the government was obliged to reverse its decision.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Despite these setbacks, the company continued, having raised £200,000 to finance the operations. In 1714 2,680 slaves were carried, and for 1716–17, 13,000 more, but the trade continued to be unprofitable. An import duty of 33 pieces of eight was charged on each slave (although for this purpose some slaves might be counted only as a fraction of a slave, depending on quality). One of the extra trade ships was sent to Cartagena in 1714 carrying woollen goods, despite warnings that there was no market for them there, and they remained unsold for two years.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies.--181.137.12.115 00:14, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The British slave trade was carefully regulated from its early days. Even the first efforts of privateers – notably Sir John Hawkins– were subject to royal approval. In the 18th century, royal backing (it was, after all, the Royal African Company) gave way to full-blown parliamentary support. Indeed Parliament spent as much time discussing (and legislating for) the expansion and regulation of the slave trade as it was to spend on abolition a century later, passing dozens of Acts to fine-tune the trade.--181.137.12.115 00:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Similarly, slavery in the colonies was regulated by colonial laws approved in London. --181.137.12.115 00:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The English, for example, established a joint-stock enterprise, the Royal African Company, but this monopoly failed to provide planters with what they wanted and simply gave way under the growing colonial demand for more forced African labour. When a freer British slave trade was finally established – after protracted political and commercial argument – it ushered in an era of massive expansion. Enslaved Africans crossed the Atlantic in huge and increasing numbers. By the peak years of the 18th century, the British were shipping 40,000 people a year. Meanwhile the Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. --181.137.12.115 00:42, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The initially dominant Portuguese were replaced by the Dutch in the late 16th century. They, in their turn were usurped by the British and French from the 17th century. These two struggled for supremacy in the 18th century, not merely in the Atlantic but all over the world, from India to North America and the Caribbean. Although Britain – and especially Liverpool – dominated the slave trade by mid-century, the ports of Nantes and Bordeaux and, above all, the expansive colony of St Domingue – what would become Haiti – threatened to push the British aside. That threat ended with the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789, the Haitian slave revolution of 1791 and the subsequent collapse of French power in the enslaved Caribbean. Meanwhile the Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. --181.137.12.115 01:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

You are eligible to vote for DotM, OtBP and FTT in Spanish Wikivoyage

As you have more than 25 main namespace edits and have a more-than-4-days-old registered and autoconfirmed account, you are elegible to vote for the Destination of the Month, Off-the-Beaten Path and Featured Travel Topic articles of 2017 in Spanish Wikivoyage.

You can vote support (a favor) or against (en contra) of any candidate along with your argument on the following subpages:

• es:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikiviajes:Destino del mes/Candidaturas/2016/ - Destination of the Month candidates
• es:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikiviajes:Fuera de las rutas turísticas/Candidaturas/2016/ - Off-the-Beaten Path candidates
• es:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikiviajes:Notas de viaje/Candidaturas/2016/ - Featured Travel Topic candidates

Regards. --Zerabat (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Religion of the British monarch

Here's a relevant article for you.

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Sure thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

yup

an odd one https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hajk cheers

JarrahTree (talk) 09:21, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Illuminations

You mentioned something about Light festivals in the Christmas and New year travel article.

However, there are other 'light' based events some of which are linked with religious festivals, and others which are entirely secular.

In the United Kingdom for example you have the Blackpool Illuminations from a far earlier time than Xmas, but which are entirely secular. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:38, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Well it takes no astronomy genius to find out that Late December is pretty dark in most of Europe. And it is only fitting that people (who by and large are a darkness-averse bunch) have put up as many lights as they could during that time. There is also the point that any sort of light display will be much more impressive during long dark nights than during short nights that don't really get all that dark. I really don't think religion can claim primacy over that urge to light a candle in the darkness. It is one of the reasons (besides the lack of cold) why Christmas in the tropics felt supremely weird to me. But then again, I am a rather secular person. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:42, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

VFDs

Just a note to avoid potential frustration, but per your comment about deleting Hamburg Airport, that article is not a candidate for deletion and should not be listed at VFD per the WV:Deletion policy; if the airport doesn't merit a standalone article then per existing policy the article would become a redirect. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:45, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I know. Our deletion policy says we can only ever delete page creation vandalism (which does not need to be nominated for deletion) and travel topics. Everything else gets redirected. I think we have had the discussion including my somewhat tongue in cheek to proposal to rename vfd "vote for redirect". Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:49, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Germany

Thanks for fixing my typo. I usually change "boasts" whenever I find it. I understand that "has" is pedestrian, but "boasts" seems so commonly used that it is trite. But I'll leave it alone unless it is in a business listing, where it would seem to be touting. I am also not interested in fighting over words here. (In Wikipedia, I will fight to the death in a cage match over words ;-) but not here.) Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 01:53, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

No problem. Maybe "boasts" isn't the right word either, but I think just saying Germany has a bunch of operas and the likes might be a bit of an understatement, given both the number and the quality of (often publicly subsidized) venues of "high culture" in the country. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:11, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Ivre à vélo

I don't know the specific law, but it is apparently enforced so rarely that it makes the news when it is! In Toulouse, a guy was fined €500 and was banned from driving for four months after a 5AM police patrol caught him cycling with 1.36 g in his bloodstream. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 01:24, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. I know that there is a (rarely enforced) limit of 1.3 Permille, but there recently was (in my opinion pretty wrongheaded) talk of reducing said limit. After all, when you reduce the DUI limit for people on bikes, won't that induce more people to drive drunk who would have otherwise taken a bike? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:57, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, that was what the guy who was arrested was complaining about. He talks of a brief smugness as he passed the "vast police control" at Matabiau station, thinking he'd made the right decision to cycle as he knew he'd probably end the night drunk, but the smile was wiped from his face when the police stopped and breathalised him anyway. It seems like a stitch up to force people to pay for taxis, in my view. On a separate note, I was impressed by the underground when I visited Toulouse last year; fully automatic and kept the same 5 min frequency until about 2AM every night. I just wish the same kind of money was spent on transport in regional cities in the UK --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:45, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure of the details, but there used to be a possibility for cities in France to levy a public transit tax (the tax was levied on other stuff but it could only be spent on public transit) and they could raise it higher or get a bonus when they built a rail based solution. This was - at least in the article I read - cited as a reason for the renaissance of trams in France from three systems in the 1980s to three dozen today... And yeah, the taxi thing might be a reason. As might be stupid "law and order" measures - at least "public drunkenness" is not yet an offense... Nor is - as far as I am aware - "resisting arrest". Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Sir Bani Yas Island

• You know, my friend, I never really know what to do with these pages that are created with the specific purpose of touting this or that business, featuring said business as the only entry (the tout didn't even bother to write the place's name). This is why I tag them vfd. I'm grateful that you took notice, and hope this page can stand and eventually be useful. Ibaman (talk) 16:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, it appears that the user in question asked an admin (Ikan, in that case) what to do and was told that he could create that article (albeit, he seems to have misunderstood exactly how much detail an article would need to stand on its own), so it might be biting newbies to delete it straight away. I fear the article will ultimately be merged/deleted anyway, but I am willing to give it some chance and not vfd it out of the gate. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:18, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree with you entirely, Hobbitschuster. I hope someone develops the article, even if it ends up having to be merged with some other article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Your welcome to me

Wow, a lot of things and links. But thanks for it nonetheless. Better to know than to make something wrong. Harry shacklebolt (talk) 21:27, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

No problem. If you have any question, do not hesitate to ask. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Airline links

I read that discussion but didn't weigh in. I think if there is a dispute about the policy, the most effective way of getting resolution is to propose a change to the policy to clarify it. I'm with you: when I click on a link, I want it to take me to useful information. Linking KLM to flying is going to irritate me and other readers: in virtually every context it will be clear that KLM is an airline, so I don't have to read an article about flying to understand KLM. I think it's better to leave airline links red, and let them be removed by wikignomes like me. Ground Zero (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I have raised the issue in the pub where I hope it draws more eyeballs. Feel free to weigh in. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Regarding your comment about administrators, I am surprised that you are not one. Would you be interested in being nominated? Being nominated by me may not help you, but I would be willing to make this nomination if you are interested. Ground Zero (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

I think this is not the first time someone has approached me about that. I fear I am not diplomatic enough to be one... Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:41, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Travel between Syria and Jordan

Hi there, thank you for your continuous help. :-) Regarding the following warning under Jordan:

	WARNING: due to the ongoing civil war in Syria, it is strongly advised not to travel to/from Syria at this point in time

This seems a little arbitrary to me. For one thing, the war seems to be kind of won for Assad with the fall of Aleppo and the support from Russia. Also, I never had the impression that anything between the Jordan border and Damascus is really dangerous because the war mostly takes place in the north and northeast of Syria. There are some attacks on Damascus but it is not a war zone.

I believe we shouldn't just amplify here what mainstream media is teaching us. If you have anything more profound and maybe some links, I think this would be helpful. Also, the decision is on everyone's own side. It might be important to say, that there is a civil war going on and travelling there is dangerous, if this is really the case between Jordan and Damascus, but apart from that anything else should not be our decision. Also, we don't want to indicate that anyone still in Syria must be crazy, which is what this kind of sentence might suggest.

Maybe we should just write something like for Iraq in the first sentence, because this travel guide really concerns Jordan not Syria. Also, this is the chapter where advice on coming in to Jordan from Syria is given, hence, one already must be there in the first place.

What do you think?

Ceever (talk) 11:01, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I will move this discussion to the pub to draw more eyeballs. I hope that's okay with you Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism in Berlin

Hi, User:Hobbitschuster. I'm considering spending most of 2018 in Berlin. I don't wear a kippah, but I also don't keep it a secret that I'm Jewish. Which Berlin neighborhoods have a reputation for anti-Semitism and how bad are things there on a day-to-day basis? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I mostly know it from media reports (the incident I was alluding to was of a rabbi wearing a kippah who was beaten up but got better and was defiantly declaring he won't let those people take over his Kiez on TV shortly afterwards), but the issue seems to be connected to people of Middle Eastern descent and Muslims and seems to mostly be an issue in Kreuzberg and Neukölln. Far right extremism is mostly an issue in rundown neighborhoods of the Eastern periphery but I haven't heard of antisemitism in particular there. That said, Berlin has a vibrant and large Jewish community (both expat Israeli and other) and some articles I've read insinuate that some Berlin Jews actually consider other Jews disagreeing on the issue of Israel (sometimes disruptively so) a more annoying issue than antisemitism. If you read German well enough, I can search for some articles on the phenomenon when I get home later today. Have safe travels and I quite enjoyed all my stays in Berlin, including a visit to the Jewish Museum which is excellent (though the security controls serve as a stark reminder of the reality of antisemitism). To sum it up outright violence makes national headline news due to its rareness, but unpleasant enquiries as to your stance on Israel (and the debates that might result from your response) are very likely when people know you're Jewish. I know few adult Germans with no opinion on Israel - and they are often strongly held - and Jews are often asked to justify explain or condemn policies of Israel even if they aren't Israeli. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

My German reading ability is not so good. I will have to watch what happens both in the U.S. and Germany this year. I know my girlfriend would be disappointed not to go to Germany next year, but part of the reason I'm thinking about it is that it might be safer than staying here! I do remember the incident with the rabbi. I've been in Kreuzberg without incident, but as I said, I don't wear a kippah. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:29, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, as I think you can see from my answer, I am not entirely sure how to judge the situation myself. I am not Jewish myself and outside the internet I don't think I know any Jew personally, so I have to rely on media reports to a large extent. That said, here is an article in Jüdische Allgemeine (a newspaper published by the German Zentralrat der Juden, mentioned as the "Central Council of Jews in Germany" in the English edition of the Zeit article) that argues that Neukölln is not a good place to go for someone who is visibly Jewish. It partially refers to this article from major German slightly left of center weekly Die Zeit about a rabbi's experience on a 45 walk through Neukölln. There's an English version of the Zeit article here. Apart from the "experiment" itself, the Zeit article also alludes to a bit of the debate and events in Germany in the past. I of course can't make the decision for you and I think it would be sad if you'd decide Berlin isn't safe enough for you (though as I said earlier, it continues to attract Jewish immigration from both the former Soviet Union and Israel), but I hope that what little information I can give you is helpful for you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:40, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I felt perfectly safe during my first 2 visits to Berlin (1 lasting a month, the other a week), but I may not be so visibly Jewish. I would not like to be asked to answer for everything Israel's right-wing government does, and Germans, maybe more than other people, should be aware that if there had been no Shoah, there probably never would have been an Israel. The most popular Jewish party before World War II was the Yiddishist Labor Bund in Poland, which sought to promote and maintain Yiddish culture and combat anti-Semitism as loyal Polish citizens and part of an international movement of workers and peasants, and it had counterparts in other countries. I think the Bund's point of view was highly moral, and Zionism even at its best, in the hands of left-wingers, is very problematic. I don't mind stating my outrage at the racist and colonialist actions taken by the right-wing government in Israel. But anyone who's really honest would know why Israel exists, and that's because the Bund's vision was a tragic failure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Deletion policy

Regarding this edit, I don't disagree with the content, but I also don't think it belongs in our deletion policy. The practice you describe is not really a matter of deleting or not, but rather of independent articles vs combined articles with redirects. Wouldn't it make more sense to include it in Wikivoyage:What is an article?? JuliasTravels (talk) 17:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I think it fits in both places, the sentence starts out with "they are too fine grained" and some minor pcv places do get deleted outirght, so there's a case to be made to have it mentioned in both, but if you think having it there is better, I won't fight the case. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:13, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Page stats

Note there is an error with the new Petscan you need to go to the Page properties tab and tick the first box to get only namespaces --Traveler100 (talk) 00:13, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Meaning what? Is the 604 figure accurate or the 539? Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:16, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

539. call the probram, go to second tab, tick first box and press Do It. This removed categories from the count. --Traveler100 (talk) 00:27, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Got it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm not being nosy....

Well, I am. There are three Gs in "aggregator". Ground Zero (talk) 00:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I knew I was spelling it wrong. Be my guest to edit accordingly. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Technical question

Hi Hobbitschuster. I have a technical question concerning the Hebrew Wikivoyage version of the Template:See template... (the question is technical so you don't need to know Hebrew to help with this one). I would like to change the way this template displays a certain element ... the external URL link which is supplied with that template... so that the external link would be displayed under a globe icon, instead of how it is currently displayed as a link from the main name of the attraction (the same way this is implemented with all the listings templates of the French Wikivoyage). Do you by any chance know which template/code I need to edit in order to make such a change? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 18:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have no idea. Personally I think the globe icon looks ugly, but that's neither here nor there. I am really bad with the coding and technology details, maybe if you raise the issue in the pub someone knows the answer? Sorry that I can't be of more help... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:09, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 19:24, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry. As I said, maybe raise it in the pub. Unfortunately I also don't know who the resident coding expert is. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Bureacratese

Sure, give examples - the longer and more pompous, the better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:12, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Is there a long scary name for this kind of Bureaucratese itself? Laughs ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:27, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I would only know of "Behördensprache" or "Behördendeutsch" which to me is neither particularly long nor particularly scary. Some examples of (supposed or real DDR-German)

"Sättigungsbeilage" (for e.g. potatoes when accompanying e.g. meat)

"Erdmöbel" (coffin, standard German "Sarg" of dubious authenticity)

"Jahresendflügepuppe" ("secualarized" version of "Christmas angel" - Weihnachtsengel of dubious authenticity)

"Arbeiterschließfach" (derisive, not used by the regime or its advocates for the small Plattenbau)

"Zweizimmerwohnung" (standard sized Plattenbau-unit; literally two room apartment)

"Kombinat" (vertically and/or horizontally integrated VEB [see below])

"Antifaschistischer Schutzwall" (I kid you not, the official GDR term for the Berlin Wall besides "befestigte Grenze")

"Reisekader" (the higher ups who had clearance to go where normal GDR citizens could not go e.g. the NSW [see below] - required travel in pairs and being married in addition to impeccable support for the regime and membership in the SED

"Plansollübererfüllung" (producing more than the five year plan demanded - very desirable and a thing the news liked to trumpet)

And then there are the delightful abbreviations:

VEB (volkseigener Betrieb; the GDR equivalent of a Sowchose, a "company owned by the people" i.e. a nationalized company)

DDR, often with unsere DDR (German for GDR)

LPG (Landwirtschaftliche Porduktionsgenossenschaft; the GDR equivalent of "Kolchose", i.e. a "collectivized" agricultural unit)

NSW (nicht-sozialistisches Wirtschaftsgebiet GDR-German for the West; only "Reisekader" could go there)

SED (Sozialistische Einheitspartei; the ruling party)

ZK (Zentralkommittee, usually in the form ZK der SED - the actual rulers)

FDJ (Freie Deutsche Jugend; the quasi-mandatory state run youth organisation; not being a member could mean not being allowed access to university; children of protestant ministers often weren't members; Angela Merkel was despite her dad being a minister)

HO (Handelsorganisation; a supermarket)

MfS / Stasi (Ministerium für Staatssicherheit; the secret police)

NVA (Nationale Volksarmee; the military - military service was mandatory, conscientious objectors were put into engineering battalions as "Bausoldaten" which among other things built the Harbor in Mukran, Sassnitz, Rügen and were housed in Prora)

And then of course there were the "Plaste und Elaste aus Schkopau" an untranslatable term for the chemical products made in and around Schkopau, during times of petroleum scarcity with lignite as the basic resource (the GDR had and still has an abundance of the stuff, but it stinks when its burned and is very inefficient.

I might find more at some later time, but this might give you an idea. Also both Ulbricht and Honnecker (the de facto leader of the GDR for almost all its existence) had weird voices and spoke in a nasal pseudo-Saxon accent which is especially insane in the case of Honnecker who was born and grew up in Saarland. Honnecker also had a propensity to swallow syllables so that "Sozialistisch" became something "soziaisch" and the likes. There are probably speeches of him somewhere, but it is hard to describe if you don't speak German. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:12, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Wikimedia blog post?

Hi Hobbitschuster,

I work with the Wikimedia Foundation on their official blog. When I'm not working, I edit on the English Wikipedia as The ed17.

I'm writing today to see if you'd like to write a "Why I" post for the blog. It's an irregular series that aims to bring out the voices of content creators like you. I'm hoping that you will be willing to write a few hundred words on why you edit Wikivoyage, a project we don't feature enough on the blog.

What do you think? Thanks for your time. :-) Ed Erhart (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I could imagine doing that. Do you still need me? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Hey Hobbitschuster, I'm sorry for the delay. I've only just seen this message. I'd still love to have a piece written by you! One reason why I took this job was to humanize the movement within the wider world, but I haven't done a great job of getting voices from outside of Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. The prompt I usually give people is "what makes you volunteer your most precious resource (time) to edit?" I'd love to get 400–700 words from you on that—and perhaps what got you to start editing—with a few pictures to post on the blog. Thank you very much! Ed Erhart (WMF) (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Broken breadcrumbs for Driving travel topics

Swept in from the pub

So after some recent edits, there now appears the "broken breadcrumb" symbol at the bottom of e.g. Driving in Germany or Driving in Iceland. How do we fix this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

As you have now created the category it should fix itself over time. To quicken it up, press edit on an article and save without doing any changes. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:16, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

I did as you said for Driving in Iceland but it did not fix the problem. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:06, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Why was that swept to my talk page? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

The instructions for sweeping say "A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question." And I wasn't really sure where else to put it. Feel free to move it if you think there is a better place for it. Ground Zero (talk) 15:52, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but perhaps Talk:Driving, especially in case the problem reappears.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to move it wherever you think is best. I'm just trying to keep the pub from becoming so full of old discussions that people stop using it. I won't always move things to the right place, so I'm not offended if someone repositions something. Ground Zero (talk) 21:31, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Recent events

Hobbitschuster -

Despite our differences of opinion in the raging debate about Kassel vs. Wernigerode as OtBP, I hope you know I consider you an indispensable and invaluable member of our community. I'm aware that I can come off like a hothead sometimes, and I hope I haven't gotten under your skin too much. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:11, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Likewise. I hope I haven't stepped on any of your toes. I know my "humor" is hard to get sometimes and I may have had some passive aggressive outbursts as well. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:44, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Railway station listing

Hi there,

I just changed a listing for the railway station you added very recently to the article of Romanshorn into a marker. I think the marker works better here, as there is really not much to say about this rather small and straight-forward station. However, feel free to change it back to a listing if you think that'd be better. Drat70 (talk) 08:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

No problem Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:44, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Leave of less presence

Swept in from the pub

As you might've noticed I have taken on a job abroad and besides my Internet being sketchy at the moment, I also have less time to spend on WV. I hope I'll still be able to contribute but I wanted to let you know, lest you perceive me as just disappearing without word or trace. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:57, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Thanks for the heads-up: you're a familiar face and have many, many welcomed additions here. I hope this is a good move for you and I'm glad that you're still interested in participating as you can. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:59, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Always a pleasure. Best wishes! Cheers -- Matroc (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Good luck! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:32, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Thanks for your great work here and all the best with the future mate. Gizza ^(roam) 23:17, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: We miss you already! I hope the job abroad gives you new opportunities for travel. Ground Zero (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Good luck, and we'll keep the light on for you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Best of luck with the new job and home, Herr Hobbitschuster. You will be missed. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:08, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Good luck, hope to hear from you again. /Yvwv (talk) 15:10, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope I'll have more stable WiFi and a bit of time to edit soon... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: In the wake of what has proven to be the alarming disappearance of many of the most prominent Wikivoyagers (Ypsilon, Ryan, others), you've become more and more a backbone of our editing team. Your inability to contribute as much as before is totally understandable, but I do sincerely hope to continue to see you around here from time to time. Your contributions to our site are greatly appreciated and will be missed. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all for your kind words. I now have WiFi as it were, but the signal is never strong or stable and many of my days are occupied mostly with work, eating and social calls. I hope I'll find a better arrangement to get some editing time in edgewise in the near future. At any rate, by the time the leaves fall it'll be on to the next chapter anyway. Whatever that may be. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

An award for you!

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	For your tireless advocacy in favor of the most underrated letter of the German alphabet, ß. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I shall put "defensor eszettis" in my sigil ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:04, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I can be one confusingly logical Wikivoyger!

Swept from the User talk: AndreCarrotflower conversation

(In response to User: AndreCarrotflower) Everything you said is contradictory in one way or another, but I understand the point. Creating something is often a hard process, and if there is a better option, we shouldn't do it. I'll keep the Greyhound off. -Signed, the amazing Zanygenius. Visit my chat page 23:54, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Could you explain what you mean with your first sentence? I'm not sure I understand it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 08:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, in the past, I have gotten into heated debates with people, and last night, I decided NOT TO PUSH THE POINT, however, I don't really think User: AndreCarrotflower knew what he was talking about, as all transit can be changed without notice. Buses, trains, Transit, and maglev can all go off the line at any time, but for the most part, they all have a good track record. (Get it? Track record? 😉 )

rail travel in Germany -no DB night or car trains?

is it time to either remove sentences about DB pulling out of night & car trains or to at least move them to the end of their sections? Does anyone really want to know about who does not offer those services right at the beginning of those sections? Griffindd (talk) 11:23, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I think we should mention that DB doesn't do that any more (though I think the Nightjet can still be booked via the DB website) but you are right, the "DB doesn't do that any more" is partly an artifact from an earlier "DB will soon cease doing that" wording. I think moving to a less prominent place is fine. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:25, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

ok...I gave it a go. Not sure what to make of DB apparently ending something in Dec 2016 but still running car trains to Sylt. Griffindd (talk) 11:46, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

There is a difference in the kind of trains they used to run and what they are doing now. What they used to do were trains with sleepers that went really long distances where you could check in your car in - say - Hamburg - and not worry about it until you arrive at your holiday destination in - say - France. That - at least according to DB - was a money losing business and their aging fleet was in dire need of overhaul, which gave them the last reason to get out of it. On the other hand, the only way to get a car onto the island of Sylt is to take either the DB or the RDC train (or a ferry from Denmark, but very few Germans even think of that). That does not require offering sleeping accommodation, it does not require using tracks in a foreign country and apparently it still makes a handsome profit for DB. Of course it might be a bit paradoxical the way it is worded right now, but we might make it more precise by talking about long distance car trains, because mainland Schleswig Holstein to Sylt is many things, but long distance it is not. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:52, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

ah. ok. Thanks. That was..quite comprehensive. Griffindd (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:19, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Yep

That was pretty sloppy. I'll try to be more careful. Ground Zero (talk) 18:54, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

No problem. We all make mistakes from time to time. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:01, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Addis Ababa#By train "Get in" edits

Dear Hobbitschuster, Regarding you edit 3247626, yesterday on Addis Ababa#By train ("Get In" section). According to Xinhua newspaper article one week ago (2017-07-22) the Addis Ababa–Lebu Railway Station is not yet opened to public and commercial service will start in October 2017. Should we keep the article as is for 2 months or ? Best regards, --Jeanot (talk) 16:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

The WP article (where my information is from) is insanely unclear about this, but I say as we don't seem to have someone who is there at the moment we should leave it as is rather than having to scramble to correct it two months from now. Anyway, if the service does take longer in being inaugurated than one should think, we will have to edit the article(s) accordingly. Are other stations along that route already in service? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:43, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi. Actually, I am here nowadays. According to local people and Djibouti citizen resident in Addis Ababa, the passenger commercial service is not yet started for this railway. Information is hard to find as no-one even took it! It is planned in two month, but plans may be changed. I guess the only section open for passengers is Dire Dawa to Djibouti, as the old meter-gauge w:Ethio-Djibouti Railways was shuted down: The WP article w:Railway stations in Ethiopia seems upto date. I will try to collect more information, expats are exited by the trip, but local seems to see less interest for a 10-hour trip which can take 1 hour by flight (or 2 hours flight if it stops in Dire Dawa). Regards, --Jeanot (talk) 15:56, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

What about those locals who can't afford to fly? Is there a significant number of Ethiopians who can afford the train but can't afford to fly? Also, a lot of locals will probably travel parts of the route (which was mainly intended for freight anyway). Anyway, it would be great to know at least ballpark figures for ticket prices and/or a website where they can be bought (I know those don't always exist) Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:37, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Hobbitschuster, It seems that most of them are not travelling, or at least not "for touristic visit". Those who have family outside Addis Ababa visit by mini-bus (therefore they visit only the city they come from). Some said that I (and all foreigners) visited more place in Ethiopia than them… May the railway change that and make people to spend holidays on Djibouti' seaside? Regarding the railway, I didn't see any official website or even practical informations about passenger service on WP nor search engines. I may go to the Lebu Railway Station soon to see if there is information to collect there (as you see Station isn't so close from city centre): as modest "train enthusiast", I also wish to make the trip to Djibouti by train (for now it is more a "Do" than a "Get In"). Regards, --Jeanot (talk) 09:13, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

You were right.

Your educated guess is correct. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 05:49, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Nice to hear. Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:01, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

How does one insert non-English Wikipedia links?

Swept in from the pub

So I have seen some listings having Wikipedia links to other language editions. How is that done? I was trying to do this in the Erfurt article but just couldn't find a way to do it... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

w:de:Erfurt for example. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:17, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

In a listing, though? I want the listing with number 7 here have this as its WP link. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I think that in a listing a reader would expect the W logo to take them to the English Wikipedia. I think that we should only link to other language WPs in a way which is clear to the reader that it is in another language, and I am not sure that policy would allow that. (A special case is the Simple English Wikipedia, which might be useful for a very few travel topics.) AlasdairW (talk) 22:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps "see also X in the German-language Wikipedia" would be clear enough? K7L (talk) 14:51, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Mapframes klutzing up due to airport markers

Swept in from the pub

Have a look at the maps in articles like Erfurt or Kleve. They are zoomed out way too much and if you add a "zoom" parameter, it zooms into empty fields between the city and the airport... How do we fix this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Add coordinates (just the values, not "lat=" and "long="!) for a random location at where you want to have the map zoomed in a little more, like I did in Kleve. These coords will then become your new map center and you can add a zoom parameter if you need the map to be zoomed in or out around that point. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Confirming above. "If the (lat, long) and zoom are omitted, {{mapframe}} alone will now default to a scale and position that fits all of the current article's POIs onto the map. These defaults are usually adequate." from Wikivoyage:How to use dynamic maps -- Matroc (talk) 03:16, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Deletion candidates

Hi, you put AfD tags on two articles Badagry and Sindhuli, however I can't seems to find their nominations at Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion. Please either remove the tags or make thier nominations as per guidelines. Ping me whatever you decide. Thank you. --Saqib (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

And Manendragarh as well. --Saqib (talk) 14:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

The former two seem to have been created by drive by editors and possibly Telstra. The latter I have put on the vfd page with a reason as to why. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:34, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Non articles, copvyos, egregious violations of our style rules and other created by drive-by editors

Swept in from the pub

Now we seem to be getting a few more visits from outside of our usual editor pool, which is great, but it does raise the issue of non-articles, one line (or less) stubs that look something like this or this or this. It has thus far been practiced that those were converted into outlines in the hopes of them maybe, hopefully, some day developing into "real" articles. I am not sure this is the right approach. What do you think we should do with this - for lack of a better term - category of article? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Spam has always been deleted. An "article" created as a single paragraph with a link driving traffic elsewhere would qualify for speedy deletion. K7L (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

My inclination for Kutai National Park was to remove the link (on the assumption that the link was commercial spam), and I see that User:Ikan Kekek has already done that. Assuming that the park is actually a valid destination rather than a sightseeing opportunity, it might be nice to add an outline for it, and it needs to say where it's located, so it still needs some work.

I think that User:Ibaman did the right thing with Nnewi. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Your note on draft articles.

You have a note on your draft article: "Feel free to edit this page as you would with any page in mainspace". If I could make a suggestion, I think this would be a little clearer: "This is a draft article. Feel free to edit this page as you would with any article in mainspace.". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:29, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello

fellow human how are you doing today? --Warfare910 (talk) 15:54, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Fine. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Sheki Region

Baku Region and Northeastern Azerbaijan also have "rayons" listed.Ceever (talk) 20:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I think they too should be removed. What do you think? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, sure. I ll put them into the header where they where mentioned before with other articles, like this: https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Sheki_Region&oldid=3115811 Cheers, Ceever (talk) 09:35, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this, but if you think this works, why not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Apple ][

Yes, the Apple desktops of the pre-Macintosh, pre-Lisa era did use branding like "Apple ][" and "Apple ///" to signify "apple two" and "apple three". This is not a typographic error and [sic] is not in order. K7L (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Well [sic] can also be used when what you intend to communicate is "yes, I know this looks like a mistake, but it is genuinely how this is spelled". Or "That's their own inane spelling" or anything of the likes. It's not just used for transmitting an error or weird word choice made in the original. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:40, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps <!-- [sic] --> would be appropriate? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Sure, why not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:15, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

The '][' branding was specific to the earliest versions of the Apple II, just as the slash branding ("Apple //") was specific to later versions. If we want to talk about all the Apple IIs, we should use standard Roman numerals. See w:Apple II series#Renditions of the "II" name. Powers ^(talk) 21:02, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Collaboration of the month proposal

Have made a proposal based, if I remember correctly, for something you previously suggested:- Wikivoyage:Collaboration of the month#Eat listings for cities in Germany. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, yes I had indeed made such a proposal. Some may be harvested from de-WV. Others from the tourism websites of the cities in question. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

What's going on?

“ One can not listen without words, exempt from the voices of peers. When I can't hear, I can't understand. My dear companion, speak! ”

I have a failure to understand your Unexplained Revert to Andratx. I noticed a new article, and it looked sloppy, so I was going to try my hand at fixing it. First things first, I organized it, but something was off: IT wasn't clear how to "get in" for the average traveler, so I made it crystal that you must enter via waterway. I didn't do much else because I had errands, and (research!😉), And so I stopped there.

If you could tell me what's wrong, I gurantee that I can fix it and avoid bthis error again. _{-Signed, the amazing Zanygenius. Visit my chat page} 00:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Can markers have a wikipedia parameter, if not why not?

Listings have them, right? I wanted to put the wp symbol behing Nuremberg Airport in our article on Nuremberg but I don't want to convert it to a listing Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:18, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Can't you just leave out the "*" in front and use any of the templates that support WP (like Template:go) like an inline element? Ceever (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Well yes, but some others have argued against using the listing template in lieu of the marker template... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Right. But shouldn't an airport be a proper listing anyhow? One for Nuremberg airport and at least one more list item for Munich or so, under "By plane".

A marker is just a marker for a certain reason – it is just not destined to carry comprehensive information like "content" and WP entries. Everything else seems to legitly demand a proper and regular listing.

I use marker mostly for go, around, city and quick sees. Here I would go for a regular "listing".

What do you think? Ceever (talk) 22:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Railway station listing in Romanshorn article

Hi,

I saw you changed the marker for the railway station in the Romanshorn article to listing. I assume you did this, because it's impossible to add a wikipedia or wikidata reference to a marker. However, this messed the layout up a bit, as the listing automatically adds a period behind the title of the listing.

So we have basically two options here: either we make it into a proper listing or we revert it to a marker. I am personally for the latter, as I feel transforming it into a listing will break the text flow, but if you have an idea of how to formulate it such that it will still look okay, then I'm fine with a listing as well.

The main reason I'm asking you about this, is because this "The railway station is located ...." with the marker in the middle of the sentence is kind of a standard structure I've been using in most of the Swiss articles I've added train information to, so this problem will also affect all those articles. What do you think? Drat70 (talk) 14:06, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I think overall we should use the listing template for railway stations. Maybe there could be an exception for them being really only a small stop on a single line, but even then, there are some benefits to using the listing template instead. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:28, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

What are those benefits? Contact details? Nowadays all the contact goes over a centralised call centre. Unless I'm missing out something here, I don't think those benefits outweigh the loss of text flow they create. Drat70 (talk) 10:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I think it makes more sense to have a listing instead of a paragraph of text. Listings can accommodate stuff like Wikidata integration or a WP link. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:33, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I was about to ask the same question. I do a lot of georeferencing for railway stations and I find marker much more practical regarding text flow. One compromise could be that the template could be changed to that a WP link can be included. Anyway, this is something that should be brought to an broader discussion as there clearly are two practices being used. --Jonte-- (talk) 16:09, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

useless digression

I stand by your judgement my friend. It sounded kind of obvious to me, and came from a dubious IP number that got several reverts...it's good that fellow editors get to ponder over these. Ibaman (talk) 13:42, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

German

Good Day Wikipedia user! I saw on your profile that you speak German.

I am trying to transalate something to German. Cn you help me?

I want to transalate the title "Scattered Roses" to German. EmojiLove (talk) 15:10, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

More on the use of marker and/or listing

Hello again,

I see that you edited my latest entry on Roanoke railway station. I want to bring up again the issue on whether to use marker or listing. Firstly, I find it rather annoying and a waste of time that you re-edit my entries just hours after I write them. This simply creates extra, unnecessary, work. My proposal is that we bring this issue to the Travellers' pub and discuss it thoroughly. My argument it that there is no need for a listing on more simpler stations. Listing should be reserved to more complex articles with multiple, large stations, where we might want to give directions or include sections on amnesties and so on. Until we have solved this issue, let us refrain from editing each other's edits. --Jonte-- (talk) 08:48, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

I've posted in the pub. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:47, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

"Why aren't you taking the train?"

The answer is probably "Because I'm in America, and the train doesn't even register on my radar of possible transport options", but all the same I don't think such questions are helpful on the Tourist Office. Maybe you could give reasons as to why rail is preferable to flying the 400 miles; otherwise it looks like you're criticising the asker. Others may disagree of course, but it strikes me that the OP could interpret such a question as condescension or rudeness, which I'm sure wasn't your intention (from knowing you quite well as an extremely dedicated and professional Wikivoyager). No disrespect intended. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Good points. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:37, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Archiving Talk:Whangaroa

Hi Hobbitschuster. I see that the entire short contents of Talk:Whangaroa were archived by you. I think it was unnecessary to archive such short contents. I also think it is very slightly detrimental, as it now takes two clicks instead of one to get to the Talk contents from the article. I have checked our guidance on the matter and see that Wikivoyage:Using talk pages#Etiquette says, "It's best to wait until the page has grown quite long before archiving". I agree with that. I know the contents were very old, but I don't think age alone is a reason to archive. Would you be willing for the archiving to be reverted? thanks. Nurg (talk) 07:38, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Frankly what was to be found at that talk page before is unsigned, weirdly formatted spam. I would've deleted it outright if I could. I don't think anybody loses anything by that being archived. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:44, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

CR

This may interest you (it's how I updated the bridge info). Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 22:05, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. (The info about the boat still partially contradicts the info about the bus, though). Unfortunately I don't think Central America is in my foreseeable future. But who knows? Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm looking at heading to CR in January, but not other central American countries, so I won't be gathering info about borders. Ground Zero (talk) 22:34, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Well I personally don't dislike Costa Rica (but I have been accused of being overly dismissive in my words) but I think that it is somewhat "overgrazed" compared to Nicaragua. Of course not speaking Spanish, you'll likely have it easier in Costa Rica than Nicaragua. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:27, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Dortmund

Dear Ikan Kekek and Hobbitschuster,

dammn thats hard stuff and I can't understand the main criticism. Im not a tourism professionals or employees of the city council, im just a former student of the Dortmund University who came to study in this City. The City is today my home and I will do my best to show a good critical analysis of the city like the other cities on en.wikivoyage. Its not my place of birth but I like the city and the football club. But maybe its easier to split the points of criticism. (1) Its not a simply copy and paste of the eng. wiki article, because its my own work and I am the "main author" of a lot of Dortmund wiki articles. Please take a look on the edit history, its all my stuff. I collect the information of other sites like Mercer, Handelsblatt and so on and write them together. (2) Ok thats a good fact. Lets discuss about the section. I think its pretty charming to know the city districts of Dortmund and I saw that in a lot of articles on others sites. (3) I get it. (4) Please see above, im not a tourism professionals. Primarily I have used the existing structure and sound of other Wikivoyage articles like Rotterdam, Liverpool, Manchester and so on.

So please restore my hard work of more than 1-2 weeks (take a look to the History of the englisch Dortmund Article, its all my own work) and we can discuss about some sections.

many greetings from Dortmund DortmunderWestfront (talk) 13:04, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Monarch Airlines declared bankruptcy

Swept in from the pub

So apparently the fourth or fifth biggest airline of the UK went belly up. Given that they are mentioned in a bunch of articles, I thought this might be of relevance Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC) ː

I have removed some of these. One complication is that the US Monarch Air Group is mentioned in some articles, and is a different company. AlasdairW (talk) 21:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Does this need to be archived to my own talk page? It just looks like I am talking to myself. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:08, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

The advice for sweeping the pub includes: "A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question." You can do what you wish with your talk page. I'm just the sweeper. Ground Zero (talk) 00:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

It's not a question, it's a heads-up that affects more than one page. If that is what happens when a user tries to inform others, it may end up discouraging heads-ups like this... Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:17, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I put it here because I couldn't figure out where else to put it. If you think there is a better place, feel free to move it. If you want to delete it, you can do that too. I didn't want to presume to delete it. But it shouldn't sit in the pub forever. The advice on sweeping the pub also says, "If you see an old conversation (i.e. a month dormant) that could be moved to a talk page, please do so". Your heads-up informed readers for two and a half months, so it was worth noting, but now it's old news. Ground Zero (talk) 00:23, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

And if the people who sweep the pub only gets complaints, the people will stop sweeping the pub. Ground Zero (talk) 00:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Just put it in an archive. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:09, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

A little more civility

This edit summary was unnecessary.

This was a very sparse article -- one See listing, two Sleep listings, a little train info, and very little else. I created an Understand section, added more info on getting in, added a See listing, and a bunch of photos.

You could have forgiven me for one small mistake, fixed it, and thanked me for expanding the article instead of blowing your top and screaming at me for not knowing more about German public transit.

We are both trying to improve Wikivoyage, so let's try to work together. Ground Zero (talk) 18:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, my anger was not directed at you. It is one of my pet peeves that Germany has four subways (Munich, Nuremberg, Hamburg, Berlin) and a bunch of w:Stadtbahn systems which are - deliberately - referred to by confusing terms and abbreviations in order to pretend they're something they are not. If you felt attacked or offended, it was not my intention. But given the very real differences between an actual U-Bahn and the Stadtbahn pretender systems, we should be clear with words even if tourism marketing departments are not. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:11, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk infobox on Nicaragua

Really cool and interesting stuff. Thanks for that. Ground Zero (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

No problem. It is a potential for communication difficulties and - possibly - offense. I am pretty sure a realistic depiction of the way Nicaraguans talk with English subtitles that faithfully translate everything would be decried as pretty racist in some parts... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:11, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

I have way too many things to do to use a 12-hour clock. I need at least 13 hours. Thanks for catching my mistake. Ground Zero (talk) 02:13, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

No problem. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Stranger things than a 13-hour clock have happened in Scotland. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:25, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Misunderstanding.

Sorry about that :-( Vikom (talk) 01:59, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

PS. You provided a very important link to the differences between Wikivoyage and Wikipedia. Thanks :-) Vikom (talk) 02:28, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

no problem. You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 03:31, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Berlin districts

Just wanted to let you know I took care of the Steglitz-Zehlendorf ‎problem for you. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:58, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Please do the same for Treptow-Köpenick if possible! Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:59, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Done -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:03, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:04, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Prepositions

"Across" is the best preposition, definitely. You could say "through" as well, as in the song "I've been through the desert on a horse with no name". Personally, I wouldn't say that you could travel "over" the Sahara, unless you were flying. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:58, 3 March 2018 (UTC) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:58, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought as much... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:48, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

editing

In one word: Life. I.e. there is nothing you can do, and it was nothing Wikivoyage did. Why bother (talk) 11:52, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

In case you were interested...

Eurostar London - Amsterdam. Live! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:54, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Info regarding edit in Germany

Hi Hobbitschuster, I went ahead and removed some of your (and my) very recent edits from the Germany "buy section". I tried to explain my reasoning in each edit summary and I hope it makes sense. In general I tried to edit the Germany article to be more concise, more relevant, and easier to read - and therefore more useful the traveler. I hope you don't mind and I hope I didn't remove too much ... Xsobev (talk) 09:24, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Flying Scotsman

Hi hobbit-shoemaker! I have no issue with your edit, but since you asked those questions and are interested in trains, I thought I might share my enthusiasm with you.

Flying Scotsman has a strange magnetism and has always had this special place in the British psyche alongside other things described as national treasures; Concorde, David Attenborough, chicken tikka masala ;-) But the Scotsman's appeal extends globally from what I've read and seen; she was the first steam locomotive to officially reach 100 mph and ran the flagship service on the British Rail network (Edinburgh to London non-stop, hence the name) for 40 years.

After almost being scrapped by British Rail, she was saved by a privately wealthy railfan, who took her on tour all round the world between the 1960s and 1980s and could then and still can pull in enormous crowds of people just to see her. She almost ended up marooned in San Francisco forever when her millionnaire enthusiast owner went bankrupt, but was saved by another millionnaire enthusiast, passed through the hands of one or two more millionnaire enthusiasts, then was eventually saved for the country by the National Railway Museum. The story is captivating in many respects.

When she (and it is a she, despite being a Scotsman!) re-entered service in 2016, it made the news the world over, and tens of thousands of people lined the East Coast Main Line to watch her pass. Anyway it's all subjective and ultimately fairly meaningless, but I think you'd struggle to find a more famous loco. Even train services which are probably more world famous (Orient Express or Trans Siberian) are mainly known for the route and the on-board experience rather than the engine that pulls them.

And I've rambled on too much now. Best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:44, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Interesting story. By the way, do you know why so many US speed records are "inofficial"? Back in the day of speeds rising more and more, there were also accidents because safety equipment wasn't always up to par and Congress in their infinite wisdom saw fit to put in a general speed limit of 79 mph (I don't know whether it was absolute at the time, but currently certain upgrades to the safety equipment allow for a waiver of that limit) but apparently enforcement was weak and the punishment was a token fine, so the railroads did not fight it all that much. They did however, run their locos faster "unofficially" and only a few engineers officially ever recorded those "illegal" speeds so as to avoid the fines. Sadly, the railroads had lost both the ability and the will to lobby Congress to repeal or amend the speed limit (for example by providing funding for better security equipment) after the Second World War (during which the railroads were saddled with a special tax to finance the buildup of airports). Anyway, there were earlier electric locos that reached higher speeds in the Kaisserreich and as it was a military railway the records were official (link in German). Whatever else you can say about them, you gotta say they had style back then. By the way, along the Dresden-Berlin route the revenue speed record (as in end-to-end travel time, not top speed) is still held by this steam train in part to a certain Klaus W., who formerly had some position with city government (can't recall which) who lived in Lichtenrade railing against the rebuilding of the railway along the straight route (it's now underway after major delays). Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:31, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't think the speeds have improved in the States at all since then (Acela notwithstanding), though surely it's no longer because of an arbitrarily low speed limit imposed by law.

The Royal Prussian Military Railway (which I didn't know about until now) is very impressive, or rather it was. Such a shame that it has been mostly dismantled and the bits that are still there are closed to traffic, as it would make a brilliant heritage line, especially if there were one or two of those gorgeous 1930s trains knocking around! Imagine a 200 km/h train in the hands of volunteers! I don't know of any operational heritage electrified lines actually, which makes me wonder whether modern trains will ever make it into the hands of the enthusiasts of the future. As for the Berlin to Dresden route, better late than never and no thanks to that mysterious Klaus. It sort of reminds me of the W:Bakerloo line extension, which was first proposed in 1913 and may eventually be built by 2029! Or then again... --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh he was an okay mayor but he was one of the NIMBYs (as de-WP acknowledges). I think the dismantling may have been part of the stipulations of the Versailles Treaty, it being military and all, but don't quote me on it. The mysterious rise of Deutsche Luft-Hansa (emphatically not the same company as Deutsche Lufthansa est. 1955 whenever people ask about the Nazi era) has a lot to do with military aviation being severely limited under the Versailles Treaty but civilian aviation not being mentioned at all, Deutsche Luft-Hansa (totally the traditional predecessor of Deutsche Lufthansa going back to the 1920s when old "Tante Ju" airplanes are dragged out from the hangar in the name of "tradition") wasn't even a thinkable thing to the people who drafted the Versailles Treaty. One of the locomotives of the 1903 trials apparently was later cut in half and one half now rests in the Berlin museum for technology and while it can be viewed and the plaque explains its history it is imho given entirely too little prominence. I wouldn't know of any electrified heritage lines (though there are electric heritage trams, and to give just one example the "Nürnberg Fürther Straßenbahn" lives on, but virtually all of their network is also used by regular revenue trams.) However, there is a woman who has founded her own company running a positively ancient Class 194 (in the German logic the first number is for the type of traction; 1 for electric [E before the change to a computer based system) 2 for Diesel, 0 for steam, 4 for EMUs, 6 for DMUs) in freight service. But I think she actually does this to make money not (primarily) as a hobby. Back in the GDR era there was also Plandampf(sorry German only) regular runs on regular tracks that were done with steam trains. Unfortunately, many tracks are now not equipped with the necessary infrastructure any more and the schedules are already adjusted to speeds not attainable with all but the fastest and "thirstiest" steam locomotives. Well, at least DB has given up the idiotic "steam loco prohibition" it put in place after the end of steam on the mainlines (apparently to appear "modern") and now steam locos can access - under certain conditions - the mainline tracks of DB. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:36, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

I should have remembered Magnus Volk's narrow-gauge electric railway in Brighton, which is the oldest in the world (though not the first; that crown goes to Werner von Siemens). Still, if the hyperloop ever becomes an affordable and practical reality, the current high-speed lines may just become expensive novelties...

Do the old Nuremberg trams still run through the city alongside modern trams? There is a similar set up in Blackpool, but that's only a town rather than a big city and I think they mainly run along the seafront.

I confess I don't know what the rules are for steam trains running on the British National Rail network, but I know that they do so fairly regularly. I occasionally hear one go past from my parents' house on weekends; that's along a busy third-rail electrified mainline linking London and Southampton. And the Scotsman has started her 2018 tour.

The UK only has the large number of heritage railways it does because the W:Beeching cuts and mass scrapping of steam locos coincided, jolting the enthusiasts into action to save as many engines as they could and rebuild the lines that were dismantled. Though Germany seems to have a lot too (interesting interpretation of alphabetical order on that article). Was there a similar mass-closure of lines in Germany, or alternatively how come all these lines ended up as heritage railways? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:07, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

I think in Germany the preservation of rolling stock is at least in part due to the peculiar situation of East Germany. First of (virtually) all second tracks and electrification infrastructure were dismantled and carried to the USSR in 1945 and the few years after that. So East Germany started out with a hollowed out shell of a network and zero usable electrified lines. Hence anything that could roll had to be pressed into service (the Soviets also carried of locos of the newer types). The West had no such disruption and did not lose that much rolling stock either. For understandable reasons, the GDR made electrification a high priority in the 1950s, but later the Soviets delivered oil below world market prices, as the GDR was to become the chemistry hub of the Eastern Bloc (this 150% application of w:David Ricardo's theory on comparative advantage is also one of the reasons why the Middle German car industry, which had been leading before the war was given few resources; cars were never supposed to be the GDR's "thing"). Thus policy changed and dieselization was the name of the game. By the time the oil crisis hit, however, the GDR was cut off from the cheap oil, too and as intense prospection (some say the most through and intense search for oil ever undertaken on any territory) turned up (virtually) no oil, the GDR was in a bind. Transportation was to rely on the railroad (all freight traffic of more than 50 km were required to rely on rail) but there was a dearth of both electrified lines and diesel. So the trusty old steam locos were gotten out and actually new production or at least refurbishment of old ones continued or ramped back up. Of course electrification now became a priority as well and there are several lines that were on the "to do list" for the early 1990s by the GDR (Dresden-Görlitz, Chemnitz-Leipzig) that still await their catenary. The GDR Reichsbahn in 1990 employed almost as many people and carried almost as many goods as the FRG Bundesbahn on a deteriorating network and in a country of barely 15 million to West Germany's over 60 million and on a surface area roughly half that of West Germany. The GDR even kept those narrow gauge railways running that had survived the 1960s closures. West Germany meanwhile never had a "bombshell report" and nobody was ever foolish enough to even propose shutting down more than a few branch lines at a time. And at least according to current railway law (which I don't think has changed all that much) shutting down a rail line completely is hard. First traffic has to be ended (with usually some sort of token bus replacement) then the line still remains legally speaking a railway line. Nowadays it has to be offered for sale to other interested parties (i.e. other railways) and a few enthusiasts can totally get together and form "a railway" and buy a line for a symbolic € or Mark. Then there is the aspect that the shutting down process takes time and can be vetoed by local politicians (the Siemensbahn in Berlin has last seen S-Bahn trains before the strike in 1980 but DB cannot shut it down as Berlin won't let them). To give just one example, a railway line through the village I grew up in last saw trains when I was a toddler the tracks were only finally ripped out (and it declared "not a railway line") when I graduated high school. There were some attempt to preserve that line as a heritage line (which would have been a godsend as that exact line was also sometimes considered for a tram-train now finally in the works) but as the line is not particularly scenic or historic, those efforts went nowhere. I think the long and deliberative process to shut down rail lines as well the German love to form a Verein and - in the past - the willingness to sell stuff at scrap value or for the "symbolical mark" have all combined to keep a quite vibrant scene of heritage railroads alive. There is also a TV program that has been running for decades called "Eisenbahn Romantik" ("railway romanticism") which usually has a "good ole days" vibe to it even when talking about the (then) present. As for the Nuremberg guys, they basically run excursions with preserved heritage units over the extant network. There is now even serious consideration to preserve some of the - to me rather unremarkable - trains of the mid century Nuremberg U-Bahn which seem to be headed for the scrap heap. Again, German politics being slow, they might just stand around somewhere for a few years awaiting any kind of decision... In Dresden the old Tatra (built from the 1960s to 1980s) trams still see "regular" service (they are officially labeled "extra trains" but you can ride them with a normal ticket and they go the normal route) during the busy Christmas market and there are enthusiasts who keep 1930s Hechtwagen in working order sometimes running excursions or city tours with them. Unfortunately this same stubbornness that makes the death of rail lines a slow drawn out process (sometimes slow enough that they are revived for the mainline as happened with the Gräfenbergbahn which was never shut down but came awfully close and is now rather vibrant again) also leads to reactivation sometimes taking ages. People who moved next to the (now unused) tracks fear noise, tunnels now have bats in them and all this takes ages to resolve - if it gets resolved at all. But at least we never had a Beeching Axe. And yes, the DB network itself has shrunk by several thousand kilometers since 1994, but many of those are not "gone" they have just been bought up by other railroads and in some cases the are still in active use as mainline railways. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:24, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for going to the trouble to answer those questions. I had to read through twice (last night and just now) to take it all in, but it's very interesting to read about the various aspects of railway history in your country. You seem to have an historian's level of knowledge, which I greatly appreciate. I would be particularly interested in watching Eisenbahn Romantik just for the pictures (although I am interested in learning German it demands more of an effort than I am able to give right now) - having seen a couple of clips on YouTube it looks a charming series and you certainly get the nostalgia vibe.

I wonder if you'd be interested in a BBC series - Great British Railway Journeys - which seems to have been running for about a decade, and has spawned several series of a mainland European spinoff (Great Continental Railway Journeys), at least two series of Great American Railroad Journeys and a Great Indian miniseries that has just finished. It's presented by ex-Conservative cabinet minister W:Michael Portillo, who has a uniquely awkward and obliviously cheesy presenting style, and seems unworldly for a man of his background, but who still comes across as likeable because he is evidently passionate about the programme and its focuses on history, travel and trains. It's great because it always goes to countries and regions that are otherwise never on (at least British) TV and gets the right balance between railway stuff and everything else. The journeys are based on our predecessor travel guides from the 19th and early 20th centuries, so there is a lot of 'then and now' comparison everywhere he goes.

Anyway back to your post, my only experience of German trains was definitely not with DB, but on some kind of local S-Bahn (whether it was privatised or run by the state or local government I don't know) in the Black Forest. The regularity of the service even late into the evening through what essentially is a very rural area was very impressive; on the other hand, from what I saw, it seemed quite a wealthy region which may have had something to do with that.

The UK rules on closing lines are now much stricter, in line with the German rules you described. In fact, the same applies to individual services, rather than just the infrastructure they run over. If a certain operating company wants to stop running a service that is no longer profitable, it has to go through pretty much the same administrative quagmire that you described; appraisal, impact assessment, public consultation, feasibility study etc, all overseen by the Department for Transport. It's apparently so cumbersome that it has led to a whole class of train journey in Britain nicknamed "ghost trains." Basically rather than go through the hassle of officially terminating the service, the company runs a single train per week (usually one direction only) over the route they're required to run. Passengers can still access the train, as it is a proper railway service, but their sheer infrequency usually means the trains are empty but for a few enthusiasts. To try to somehow make this relevant to Wikivoyage, the ghost trains would probably make a good travel topic, and at the very least merit an infobox on the rail travel in Britain article. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:27, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

You were most likely on w:Karlsruhe Stadtbahn, which is one of the most successful examples of a w:Tram-train. It is not, properly speaking, an S-Bahn but many locals don't know that. No German S-Bahn franchise has yet been won by a non-DB company, though Nuremberg came awfully close (National Express won the franchise initially, but DB went to court and won). And yes, I had heard of ghost or "parliamentary" trains... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

It was this one actually. I just looked up "Offenburg S-Bahn" and it came up. It took me from Strasbourg to Kehl (rubbish and ugly but I enjoyed walking back to France) into the Black Forest (very, very nice; will go back). --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:52, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

National Express have ballsed up every rail service they ever operated in the UK (for instance, their East Coast franchise ended up being renationalised for the remainder of the contract they defaulted on), so I'd be surprised if they did any better in Germany. The Bahn may well be Deutsche again before too long. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, as I said, they won the initial contract, but DB said there was something wrong with their offer and sued them (or rather sued the state) and won the contract back - before a single train was run under the new contract... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:45, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Malta

Thanks, Captain, for telling us that it was lucky that that the bomb didn't explode. I guess our readers are too stupid to know that that is a good thing.

Regarding you edit summary here, the article did not say that Britain took "control", it said "took possession", which are different things. "Annexation" is fine though. Ground Zero (talk) 20:02, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Your wording leaves it - especially to second language speakers - unclear what did or did not explode. We should strive for sentences that are both correct and unambiguous even to those whose first language is not English. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I have no objection to adding "the bomb" for clarity, although the other things don't explode, but that wasn't the point of my comment. Ground Zero (talk) 20:28, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Do you think we shouldn't editorialize that a bomb not exploding, not destroying stuff and no killing people is a good thing? Because User:Xsobev seems to think we should editorialize about business practices of Aldi and the likes. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:20, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Saying that bombs exploding is bad is so obvious that it is boring. We should try not to be boring. Newspapers editorialize about what should be done to stop bombs from exploding, because they don't need to convince their readers that death and destruction is something they should be against. If we're going to editorialize, let's make it about something that will be useful or interesting for readers. Ground Zero (talk) 00:08, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

I have no idea why I'm drawn into this discussion (I received a ping). I think it is unfair to claim something about what I think or don't think without giving me some context, and without giving the other readers the context of our discussion regarding food discounters in Germany you are referring to. Xsobev (talk) 07:54, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Nundle

Hi Hobbitschuster, thanks for adding the mapframe template to the article. Just curious, what purpose does the mapshape serve apart from making the map a darker shade? I have seen it before but don't quite know what it is meant to do. Gizza ^(roam) 01:12, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

It should highlight the boundary of the territorial entity in question. It sometimes doesn't work. Don't ask me why. Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Test

Test Hobbitschuster (talk) 05:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

you can book Dresden -> Barcelona on flygermania.com I don't really want to play human google for yo, but you could maybe do worse than checking for examnple this website: http://www.anna.aero/2018/05/08/germania-3/

Paris railways

Bonjour. There is a link between various high-speed lines (Nord, Est, Sud-Est and Atlantique) around Paris, though it's not a complete ring: W:LGV Interconnexion Est. When I was living in Tours, I used it to get direct trains to/from Lille and Strasbourg. Further south and west on the Tours line are places like Rennes and Bordeaux. You get close enough to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower, and slow down considerably, but don't have to get out or change trains.

Even if I had wanted to go to Lyon, I could either have got a direct regional train (why it was a regional train I don't know, since it would have crossed three regions), or I could have gone on a Lille-bound train to somewhere like Marne-la-Vallée or Charles de Gaulle Airport and crossed the platform to a Lyon-bound TGV. So in most cases, you can avoid Paris itself, even if your journey takes you unnecessarily off course. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:39, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, Berlin Paris and London both had a point in the 19th century where they had a bunch of terminus stations all around town. Berlin built the w:Berliner Ringbahn and w:Berlin Stadtbahn to link them. London and Paris did not. And now they are trying to fix in the late 20th / early 21st century what would have been a lot easier to fix a hundred years ago... Which is interestingly even more harmful as - unlike Germany - England and France are largely capital centric... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:50, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

The Circle line links nearly all of the London termini, and has done since the 1880s, but I take your point. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:14, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Well crucially that line is not open to mainline rail. Today even after the opening of the singular main station (which, fittingly sits like a tower atop the w:Berlin Stadtbahn and the North-South long distance tunnel, allowing fast connections in all directions) most trains to or through Berlin serve more than one former terminus. Which they can do as those stations are linked within the city and so you don't have to double back... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:15, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America

If you do end up adding a "Watch" section to American Civil War, here's an interesting candidate. Basically, it's a comedic mockumentary that depicts the post-1865 history of the U.S. in an alternate-history timeline where the Confederacy won the war. Normally it's not the kind of thing that would be appropriate for such a section, but much of the movie is a satire of the problem of racism and discrimination in (real-life) modern-day America and how much of it can be traced back to the failure of the Civil War to really resolve a lot of the issues it was intended to.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh I've seen that piece of comedy. I found it quite well done, but of course it could have been done better. It is with the Civil War that in my opinion we first see the sad tendency of the United States to win the war and lose the peace. Reconstruction was of course a "success" only if you consider "white Reconstruction" - bring the rebel states back into the Union and avoid a "round two". It was a crushing and tragic defeat if you consider "Civil Rights Reconstruction" - make sure that the planter aristocracy, particularly the large treasonous subset of it never again gets power and ensure the civil and political rights of freedmen. In that, Reconstruction was an utter and complete failure by 1876 and it only got worse and worse throughout the next forty of fifty years. A similar tendency can be seen in both world wars, particularly the First. America - for whatever reason, but I blame Wilson - could not or would not build a postwar Europe that would make "round two" impossible. And after World War II Germany's capability to make war may have been reduced to zero for a time, but its (and Austria's) Nazis were never brought to justice in a real sense and Denazification such as it was, was as much an aborted effort as Reconstruction seventy or eighty years earlier. And the wars the US has led since have had that problem in even more striking ways. Frankly it seems the US are unable to ever enter a war with the knowledge that "winning the peace" might take a generation. And hence there are those "deja vu wars" against foes that seemed vanquished not so long before... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:43, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Mind the gap

If you need something to take your mind off recent events and fill your head with mildly interesting facts about Tube stations, click here. One to dip in and out of - I'm only at Dagenham East. Good night.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:20, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:32, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Northern Louisiana

When you move a region do not forget to edit the isPartOf of the city articles. --Traveler100 (talk) 23:09, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:22, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

If you want your page to be protected, just ask

Given the frequency of vandalism to your userspace, you may wish to get it protected so that only auto-confirmed users (i.e. accounts which have been registered for 4 days) can edit. It's entirely up to you, but if you do want it, you can ask me or any other admin at any time. Best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:14, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Vandal

Go to the recent changes log and you'll see there's a vandal in action. Could you block them? Selfie City (talk) 19:24, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I am not an admin, so I can't. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:24, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh, okay, I'll ask someone else if the vandalism continues. Selfie City (talk) 19:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

It's been resolved quickly and the user has been blocked. Selfie City (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Limón (Costa Rica) → Limón (Province, Costa Rica)

When executing a page move for any destination that's not bottom-level, please make sure to update the IsPartOf template for all the articles on the next lower level of the geographical hierarchy, and to create a category for them to populate. Otherwise it breaks the breadcrumb navigation. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

You removed a Libmod comment

While I don't think we should let LM back here at all, I think the apology should be kept for future reference. We could sweep it, maybe, but I think it is worth seeing. It's only my opinion, but I don't see a good reason to delete LM comments either. All the best, Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 19:28, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Our policy is to revert any and all edits made by sockpuppets of banned users, and to be perfectly frank, a screenname like "Wikiwrecker" doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in the sincerity of LibMod's apology. Even if I'm wrong about that, the apology remains accessible in the pub's revision history, like so. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

I hit rollback right out of my watchlist on edits by a user called "Wikiwrecker" or something of the sorts. Maybe next time I should indeed spend the second in looking at them... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:45, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I see. That makes sense then. And to clarify, this has nothing to do with my views on LM, who should not be allowed to edit on this site. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:13, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I will move to LM's original talk page. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:19, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Done Hopefully now this Libmod thing is over for good. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:24, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Chicago/South Side

Point taken. I was interrupted while editing, and meant to come back, but forgot. Thank you for the clean up. Ground Zero (talk) 14:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Your behaviour again

In this edit, you restored formatting errors, restored capitalization errors, removed a useful link, removed separating commas from large numbers, and restored a bunch of words we avoid because you disagreed with me changing three words ("strategically located on"). The three words were a vague cliche, which are also on the words to avoid list. This sort of behaviour is not constructive to building a collaborative travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Rojava

I was just doing some cleanup work, so to speak. No reason to visit Jazira Canton in the middle of an active civil war. Vulcandor (talk) 19:54, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

I just edited Lüneburg without ever having been there. It is entirely possible to improve articles without having visited the place in question. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with Wikivoyage, but...

...you're the only native speaker of German I know. I'm working on a translation project and am in a bit of a bind; can you verify for me the grammatical correctness of this sentence?

1926 war eine Zeit, in der das Automobil existierte, hatte aber erst gerade angefangen, für den Mittelstand erschwinglich zu werden.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:18, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

I would reformulate this... "Obwohl das Automobil 1926 bereits existierte, hatte es gerade erst angefangen für die Mittelschicht ("Mittelstand" is a German term for small business owners) erschwinglich zu werden". But I don't know how freely you can translate. The sentence as you write it sounds somewhat clumsy... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:51, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:08, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Soccer

Hi, you reverted my change to RB Leipzig. I was sceptical about wider interest in the RB controversy but, since you see it as important and have better local knowledge, let that be. However what's lost by the revert is:

• that the "Do" attraction is to watch a football match rather than see an arena;
• that by "football" we mean soccer;
• that the tournament that RB Leipzig play in the Bundesliga, the German top tier.

These may be Captain Obvious to many readers, but I don't think should be assumed, as many "stadium" entries do. I'm therefore adding or amending brief content - two lines suffice - to all the European cities with leading football clubs, and as you've noticed, I've reached Germany. If that seems reasonable I'll persevere. If not, we should take this to the pub for a wider view. Grahamsands (talk) 19:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Arguably

Arguably is a weasal word. Anyone can argue anything, especially in the post-fact world we live in. If someone argues that one church is the oldest or most beautiful or most holy in the a region, someone else can argue that it isn't any of those things. If we think that it is one of the oldest, etc., then let's say that, instead of saying something that is meaningless. In the specific case, "lays claim to being" makes it clear what it is we're trying to say. Thank you for that clarification. Ground Zero (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

German "ch"

Hey there. I will defer to your expertise as a native speaker, but I would like to understand what's going on with this. Unfortunately, my exposure to German is mostly limited to Mozart operas and some expressions my sister taught me, but I recall that the "ch" is "nicht" or "Ich" was not pronounced anything like the "ch" in "Nacht" or "Tochter", and sounded something like an English "sh" but a little off. Is that an archaic pronunciation, or was I hearing things wrongly? The dog2 (talk) 17:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay how linguistic do you want my answer to be? The short of it is that while German native speakers most likely instinctively pronounce a different sound after a and o than after i (the "ach sound" versus the "ich sound"), they do not necessarily "know" those are two different sounds. In short, we have here two Allophones of the same Phoneme. The "Ich sound" is this. The "Ach sound" (according to de-WP) can be this or this. The "sh sound" of English (which in German is a distinct phoneme, i.e. the contrast between the sounds carries meaning, whereas the contrast between "ich sound" and "ach sound" does not) is this one. I hope that helps. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, that's helpful. Thanks. Those really sounded different to me when I listened to a Mozart opera, and I highly doubt it was a pronunciation error as I specifically paid attention to the German singers. Speaking of which, I did notice some words that to my knowledge, are no longer used in modern German such as "Weib" or "Jüngling". But just one more thing. What about the "ch" in "München" then? Is that the same as the English "sh"? The dog2 (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Some individual speakers do pronounce it with [ʃ] but to my knowledge that is generally considered nonstandard. I certainly do not. But I do not like Munich, so take that cum grano salis... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:06, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

So much for Bavarian unity... The dog2 (talk) 03:50, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Page Banner Completion

Hi! Thanks for creating so many page banners and helping to reduce the number of articles without custom page banners.

I am wondering though if you would follow-up by adding the banners to Wikidata? For each banner that you create, I have had to follow-up and complete this work for you. All of the articles that don't have their page banner added to Wikidata remain in the Wikivoyage maintenance category of Category:Banner missing from Wikidata. The top part of the page has the instructions on how to properly add the banner to Wikidata, and at the bottom is a list of articles that need this action. While the instructions may look lengthy, after you do this a couple of times it goes very quickly. Thanks for considering my request. It can be challenging to keep up with all of the banners that are being added each week. Zcarstvnz (talk) 10:04, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure you're talking to the right person... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:06, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Have you added any page banners to Wikidata? If not, then the discussion is irrelevant. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Reverting

In this edit, you corrected a spelling error, changed one word from UK to US spelling, and made a typo that broke the heading formatting. I fixed your error.

In this edit, I fixed 7 capitalization errors, a bunch of time and date formatting errors (including reference to the "weekend" which will be confusing or misleading for Western visitors to Israel, removed the really unhelpful "in recent years", and made some other copyedits. And I accidentally broke one internal link. So you restored all of the errors just to make your point.

Which approach makes Wikivoyage better? Ground Zero (talk) 19:35, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Again

Regarding this reversion, I think reviewint these pages would help you understand the edits I made:

• WV:tdf
• WV:units
• The rules of English punctuation, especially when it comes to compound modifiers
• Wikivoyage:Creating emphasis

Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Travel for Rail "Enthusiats"

Hi, my friend. Can you explain why you created this misspelled redirect? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:55, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

I mentioned it on the de-wv equivalent of the pub and apparently made a typo there... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:35, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Isn't the simple solution to edit your post there? I can't see a use for this redirect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:38, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

I have. The wrong redirect can be deleted. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Done. I'm not sure the capitalized redirect is needed, either, but I won't do anything about it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Rollback of my edits on Southern US

Why did you revert my addition to the "Respect" section? I was just trying to clarify something that I think is important to keep in mind. Isn't rollback supposed to be reserved for vandalism and accidental edits rather than those made in good faith? Or was my addition simply out of the desired scope of the article? Liberscriptus19 (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about this case, but from my understanding, in the case of some articles, editors have agreed on a certain piece of text. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:27, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

A rollback is the best way to undo multiple edits at once, so doesn't have to only be used in the case of vandalism. However, it's good form to follow up a rollback with an explainer message on a relevant talk page. Rolling back a series of good faith edits without comment can come across badly. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:38, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Honestly, having taken a look at the content added, I think it was appropriate and should have been kept. Perhaps discussion should have taken place, though. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

So in that case should I take this to the talk page of the page in question, or possibly request User:Hobbitschuster's response in particular? Liberscriptus19 (talk) 21:04, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Can you wait a few more days for him to be back? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:19, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Hobbitschuster has rolled back edits without explanation on a number of occasions, and on some of them has not bothered to respond to a talk page explanation of the edits he had rolled back. Yes, it comes across badly, yet he does it, so I think the edits should be restored, and if Hobbitschuster wants to take it up on the article talk page later, he can do so. Ground Zero (talk) 22:05, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

@Liberscriptus19: Your edit is now marked as patrolled. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 03:13, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Classic Heartland of Georgia

Do not forget when you move a region to change the isPartOf the city articles. A few to do for Category:Classic Heartland. --Traveler100 (talk) 19:34, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Or should the name be return to the original? --Traveler100 (talk) 04:51, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Why? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:03, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Mining tourism

Would you explain what this means: "While some people actually believe to be able to make a living by gold panning... "? You restored this error that I had tried to correct. If you think the writer meant something other than what I corrected it to, then fix it instead of restoring the error. And don't restore capitalization errors. And don't restore WV:words to avoid. And stop rolling edits back with no explanation. This is disruptive behaviour. Ground Zero (talk) 00:24, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

It's really rude actually. Rollbacks are used with (a) spammers and touts, (b) vandals, (c) multiple good faith edits where undoing each in turn would take too long. In the case of (c), or any other time you find yourself using the rollback tool with someone who isn't a spammer, tout, or vandal, you follow it up with a talk page comment explaining your edit. Why are you not able to do that? Or, put another way, why do you choose not to do that when it comes to undoing Ground Zero's edits? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 06:14, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Also, Liberscriptus. See above. Ground Zero (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

And, unlike last time, I would like to get a response from you, Hobbitschuster, that you acknowledge having read this, that you get the message, and that you will either try to do what we ask in future, or else come up with an alternative which may be acceptable (if so, what do you propose?). Because I for one do not want for this to escalate any further, but that will happen if we can't get some reassurances from you.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:34, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Ground Zero eliminated the word "currently" for no good reason besides his personal crusade against it. He changed "people believe that they can make money panning gold" to "some unknown entity believes about people that they make money panning gold". And I am too tired of this shit, to always type out why the Verschlimmbesserungen are Verschlimmbesserungen. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:59, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

As the edit shows, I changed:

"While some people actually believe to be able to make a living by gold panning... ", which is ungrammatical,

to

"While some people are believed to be able to make a living by gold panning... ", which is grammatical. You restored the error.

I corrected the capitalization of "north". You restored the error. I made other edits to make the writing livelier. You can shoot me for that if you want to, but restoring errors because of your personal crusade for wordiness is not justified. Ground Zero (talk) 21:12, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Your edit to that page seems reasonable to me. You removed the word "currently" in an appropriate way, and it looks to me like you improved an incorrect sentence. Reverting those kinds of edits seems like a pointless exercise that only (as can be seen) sows disunity on Wikivoyage. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:32, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Can I make a proposal for an even better wording, though? "While people believe it is possible to make a living..." --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:34, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I support that wording over either of the alternatives. It changes the meaning from Ground Zero's version, but I think that is more likely the meaning that was originally intended.

There is a much longer comment coming from me on this later, but that'll have to wait until the evening.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm fine with that change. I think ThunderingTyphoons has set out reasonable reasons to roll back edits. If Hobbitschuster rolls back an edit in a way that does not meet this test, I will just revert it. Problem solved. I have a fair bit of time for Wikivoyage. It seems that he is busy with other things, which is a loss for Wikivoyage, but it means that this problem is more manageable. Ground Zero (talk) 14:47, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I'll add my change to the Mining tourism article. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:18, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I had a much longer comment drafted, but in light of Ground Zero's statement above, I'll keep this brief. Ground Zero can deal with the issue where it affects him as he wishes, but I must insist that there be no further use of the rollback tool against other good faith users without a willingness to engage them in discussion. That is a wiki fundamental, and must be respected going forward. Do we have an agreement, Hobbit?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:01, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights Survey

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

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A couple of weeks ago, we invited you to take the Community Insights Survey. It is the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual survey of our global communities. We want to learn how well we support your work on wiki. We are 10% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! Your voice matters to us.

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Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 19:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

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There are only a few weeks left to take the Community Insights Survey! We are 30% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! With this poll, the Wikimedia Foundation gathers feedback on how well we support your work on wiki. It only takes 15-25 minutes to complete, and it has a direct impact on the support we provide.

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Most progressive in the U.S./World

I won't be edit warring you on this since this is a minor issue, but I'd like to hear your perspective. Maybe L.A. is not as liberal as I thought since I haven't been to L.A. in almost 20 years, but the Bay Area is certainly more noticeably liberal than say, Chicago. The Bay Area one of the places where counterculture originated, and San Francisco is, together with New York City, where the gay rights movement first began to gain steam. I think it's safe to say that the West would not be as gay friendly as it is if not for the role San Francisco played in leading the charge. The dog2 (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

The term "progressive" might have meaning inside the contemporary U.S. and relative to other places in the U.S. But how would you judge for example whether Salvini or Trump is more "progressive" whether Sanders or Spanish PM Pedro Sanchez? I think "superlative in the world" or "one of superlative in the world" are to be handled with extreme care. Doubly so for political claims...Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:00, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Of course saying that it's the most progressive in the world is subjective and something that we should avoid, but what is indisputable is that the counterculture movement originated in San Francisco and New York City, and that included the gay rights movement. West Berlin, London, Paris, Milan and Sydney were basically following the lead of San Francisco and New York City in the counterculture movement. The dog2 (talk) 23:06, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

There was a vibrant gay rights movement in Weimar Germany and how exactly is the "counter culture" a "progressive" thing or relevant fifty to sixty years after its emergence?? Would you say "1793 Paris was the most progressive city in the world"? Can a town a heavily capitalist as LA lay any claim to whatever "progressivism" is on the global scale? Hobbitschuster (talk) 05:22, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

OK, I didn't know about the gay rights movement in Weimar Germany. I only knew about Hitler committing a genocide against gays in the Holocaust. I'll try to avoid having a political debate here, but what I'll say is that the Bay Area takes the speech policing thing more seriously than Chicago. The Silicon Valley tech workers I have met have told me about how they were required to undergo training as to what is acceptable speech and what is unacceptable speech, and some things that would be acceptable in Chicago were among the types of speech they were told to avoid (eg. saying "Hey guys", since some would interpret it to mean you are excluding the women). Perhaps "liberal" and "progressive" have differing meanings that I'm confusing, but I would say that is an example of how the Bay Area is more liberal or progressive than Chicago, even though Chicago is also quite solidly blue. I haven't been to L.A. in a long time, so I'll avoid commenting on that. The dog2 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

(As I side note, I reply to The dog2 that Progressive is a clearer word than Liberal. Liberal can easily mean economically liberal. Speech policing is not "liberal" at all, if you think about the root of "liberal." It's clear that San Francisco and Portland are among the most progressive cities in the U.S., but much of modern Europe is progressive, too — think of Denmark.) --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:17, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

@SelfieCity:I don't know if you can say Europe is that progressive anymore. Hungary has a prime minister who is openly racist and anti-Semitic, while openly racist and Islamophobic parties are rapidly gaining ground in other countries like AfD in Germany, Lega in Italy, RN in France, PVV in the Netherlands or the SD in Sweden. The UK is an exception as the BNP and UKIP haven't gained much support, but who knows for how long? The dog2 (talk) 01:34, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

The right-wing parties get a lot of attention, but the general picture is as good as, or better, for the Greens. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:54, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Thedog, if you want to talk about most of Europe being less progressive, don't ignore what's happened in the U.S. in recent years. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:20, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘@Ikan Kekek: I'm not ignorant about what's happening in the U.S. I'm just trying not to bring it up here in case it leads to heated and pointless political debates. And to be fair, even Trump's rhetoric pales in comparison to the stuff you hear coming from Geert Wilders. The dog2 (talk) 03:02, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Geert Wilders isn't the leader of the free world.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 06:00, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Let's look at the big picture. Geert Wilders can be as far-right as he wants, but as TT says, that doesn't make him in charge of the free world. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:21, 9 October 2019 (UTC)