Talk:Hajj

Non-Muslim travellers

Is there profe that the penalty for those who travil on the hajj is death?? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 81.170.113.155 (talk • contribs)

No, because those who were killed never came back to tell us about it. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 20:48, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

haha, not funny. If it cant be found to be true, then it should not be said, do we want it to sound as though suadi arabia is some kind of barbaric country who will kill non-muslims. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Fabrib (talk • contribs)

Well, it's a bit hypothetical, as you'll never get even close to Mecca unless you have convincing documentation that you are a Muslim. (WT-en) Jpatokal 20:53, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

non-Muslims have managed it, as is stated in the article, without being killed, and its been found that some who where found where simply deported from the country(WT-en) Fabio

I think Fabio's right on this one, and I've edited the article accordingly. The biggest risk of discovery would be pissed-off locals, not the Saudi authorities (although they're not known for their gentle touch either...). (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:03, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the support Jpatokal, (WT-en) fabio

I support the current solution, but I'm curious to know if there is a law imposing the supposed punishment or at least one very similar to trauma. I think I'll give the Ministry of Hajj a call within the next couple of days and ask about that. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:25, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

I lived in Saudi in the 80s, and the general belief among expats at the time was that a non-Muslim visiting Mecca or Medina risked the death penalty. I do not know if this was accurate, and never heard of anyone actually being caught. Certainly the death penalty was in use, and foreigners were subject to some heavy Saudi penalties — one guy I know of got a public flogging for smuggling large amounts of booze. (WT-en) Pashley 11:26, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

I just shortened the warning, removing text that said the penalty was jail and deportation. That may be a correct description of the law, but the risks go far beyond the legal. Doing something sacreligious in the midst of a huge crowd of devotees at any major religious event (by no means only Muslim!) would be horribly risky. With the current climate of hostility between (parts of) the Islamic and Western worlds, it might well be suicidal.

It seemed better to just cut it to a simple statement that visiting the holy cities is illegal for non-muslims than either to leave it as it was or to attempt a full explanation of the risks. Pashley (talk) 20:57, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Suggested deletion

This trip discriminates all non-muslims and should be deleted. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 212.201.72.153 (talk • contribs)

Personal distaste for a destination or category of travel is not a deletion rationale. Wikivoyage aims to provide travel information for travelers, and pilgrimage is clearly a form of travel. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:37, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

I'm actually genuinely curious as to why a non-Muslim would want to make the Hajj. It's an Islamic pilgrimage, and whilst I find it extremely distasteful and disrespectful, if you really wanted to you could just turn up and recite the Shahada purely to get in. --194.66.219.251 21:36, 29 November 2010 (EST)

Potential epidemic?

Wired story about a SARS-like virus in the Middle East, with an accusation that the Saudis are covering it up much as the Chinese did SARS. Does this need a warning here and/or on the Saudi Arabia page? Pashley (talk) 13:08, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

I would say yes to both. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:38, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

More recent info: [1] Apparently the death rate for infected people is high, but it does not spread very rapidly so overall the threat is low. Pashley (talk) 01:58, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes not sure if it warrants a warning. Wikipedia has a decent article [2]. Only 149 cases but of which 63 have died. Of course early in disease outbreaks one picks up those who are seriously affected as when you are real sick you get way more tests and when not really sick you get none. It is hard to say if there are 10,000s with little or no symptoms making it overall no more serious than influenza. WHO does not think it is that infectious. Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:41, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Corona virus

Saudi Arabia closes two holiest shrines to foreigners as coronavirus fears grow Pashley (talk) 05:29, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Deletion

A recent edit deleted this caution with the edit summary "obvious":

	Note: The Hajj is intended for Muslims only, and under Saudi law the territory around Mecca and the Prophet's Mosque in Medina are off-limits to non-Muslims year round.

I suspect it is obvious to some readers & not to others, so I want to restore it. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 23:57, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The warning was once much stronger, mentioning the death penalty, but was (I think correctly) reduced to the above. See #Non-Muslim_travellers. Pashley (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I think should be restored. Medina may be open to non-Muslims most of the time now, but it is still restricted to Muslims only during the Hajj season. The dog2 (talk) 17:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)