Talk:Maisons-Laffitte

Hotel Bleu France

Pasted from User talk:Holy triple m

Regarding this edit, do you think it serves travellers better to list this hotel or not list this hotel? I moved it to the closest town, because Eragny is not an interesting place, and there is no reason to have an article about it. By deleting it from Maisons-Laffitte, are you saying that it is better not to list a hotel 14 km away than to list one? That does not make sense to me. Many travellers use cars, so 14 km is not far away. Not everything in Wikivoyage has to be accessible by public transit. Maybe a better approach than deleting useful information would be to add other hotels that are closer to the centre of Maisons-Laffitte, if you know of any. Ground Zero (talk) 21:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I do understand that 14 km feels quite a lot in Europe, while in North America or Oceania – it's nothing. But something's better than nothing. Innamincka has listings over 300 km away, and there was once a listing nearly 800 km away before I removed it for the better. Now that's an extreme example, but it's pretty common for listings to be out of town (particularly for articles about North America and Oceania) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:31, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

But we're not talking about a remote outpost in the outback, we're talking about a suburb of one of the largest cities in Europe. And one that's very well-connected not just to the centre of Paris but also its largest business district. A large proportion of people who live in European cities don't own a car and short-term visitors to European cities wouldn't even remotely consider renting a car if they don't have to, in fact driving in Paris is actively discouraged. And it's unreasonable to expect someone to want to stay in a hotel that they can only get to by car. So I would argue that yes, even having nothing would be preferable to keeping this entry. Holy triple m (talk) 21:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

It's still better than no listing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I disagree. See my reply to Ground Zero below. Holy triple m (talk) 22:45, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Better example, have a look at Central Nordsjælland. It's a guide article, yet one of its sleep listings are out of town. However, in this case, I've added another sleep listing to this article, this time in town. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:48, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

So I'd have kept it in if we were talking about a relatively rural area with few amenities, but Maisons-Laffitte is a suburb of Paris. A person specifically staying in Maisons-Laffite would either do so for close proximity or because, say, they want a cheap hotel that has good transport links to Paris or La Défense. Nowadays Booking.com is a thing so if someone looks for a hotel on Wikivoyage it would be to look for particular recommendations. A reader might therefore be misled into booking a hotel in Eragny assuming it was much closer to or more accessible from Maisons-Laffite than it actually was, and that's why I decided to remove it. I admit I don't have any particular recommendations for hotels in the area - I live in the Western suburbs of Paris myself and have no reason to stay in a hotel there - but even somewhere like La Défense would be closer, more easily accessible by public transport and would have a wider range of hotels than Eragny. A quick search on Google maps shows two hotels in Maisons-Laffitte with rooms currently available. I would therefore recommend the entry for deletion and perhaps replaced with a redirect to La Défense or Nanterre/Rueil-Malmaison unless another user has a better recommendation. Holy triple m (talk) 21:50, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

The listing says that it is 14 km from M-L on the N184, so there is no risk that a reader will be misled into booking this hotel. Our approach in Wikivoyage is not to decide for readers, but to give them information and let them decide for themselves. If there were too many hotel listings in this article, then I could see dropping those that are not in the suburb. To say that readers would be wrong to choose to stay in Eragny and we should provide no listings instead doesn't make sense to me. Ground Zero (talk) 22:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

But it also might mislead someone to think that there were few other options around. I have added a link to La Défense in the Sleep section, and I guess maybe one could add two chain hotels in Maisons-Laffitte (https://www.hotel-maisonslaffitte.com/, https://www.choicehotels.com/fr-fr/france/maisons-laffitte/quality-inn-hotels/fr349), there's also a large campsite on a river island (https://www.sandaya.fr/nos-campings/paris-maisons-laffitte). While I can't personally vouch for their quality from first- or second-hand experience, even the crappiest hovel in the area would probably warrant inclusion more than some hotel 14 km away that doesn't seem in the least bit special. I'm really sorry but there is literally no reason to include this entry whatsoever. Holy triple m (talk) 22:43, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

At no time does Wikivoyage purport to be a complete guide to any place. And now that SHB2000 has added a listing that is in M-L, there is no concern whatsoever. It is generally better to focus on improving an article by adding content than to argue about deleting content. This article is only now at the "usable" level. A lot more content is needed for it to be considered a "guide" article. Ground Zero (talk) 22:54, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I'll stop arguing with you as it's late and I should probably go to bed, but now that there is a legit entry I really want to delete that Eragny one. Literally the only reason why I haven't already is so that I don't get banned for vandalism.