Talk:Nepal

Formatting and language conventions For articles about Nepal, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: Rs100 and not ₹100, or NPR100. Please use British spelling (colour, travelled, centre, realise, analogue, programme, defence). Phone numbers should be formatted as +977-X-XXXXXXX.

King's Name

"GYANENDRA" is written in all caps as if it were his family name. It isn't; as I understand it, it's his given name, and his family name is "Bir Bikram". -(WT-en) phma 06:06, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)

According to this site his full name is Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev. It seems that "Gyanendra" could be his given name and "Bir Bikram" his family name, as you say. I understand that "Shah" is the name of the dynasty he belongs to. I'm not sure what "Dev" means, although it seems to be the male form of "Devi" -- perhaps an honorific title? (WT-en) DhDh 07:30, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)

"Dev" means "god" (at least in Hindi, which is closely related). Some of the kings on that page are named "Bikram" without "Bir", so I think we'll have to ask a Nepali to sort it out. -(WT-en) phma 07:42, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)

i am a nepali. Gyanendra is his first name and shah his last name, and also the name of the dynasty. 'Bir Bikram' is just a middle name. The first king of Nepal, as a kingdom, was Prithvi Narayan Shah, Narayan being his middle name and Shah his last name. just to prove a point.

The royal family probably replaced a more ordinary family name with 'Shah' at some point, just as the Ranas originally were the Kunwars. Apparently Shah is a Persian word that comes from the same root as 'Kshatriya', both meaning 'preserver'.

Although contemporary accounts say Prithvi Narayan's forefathers were already 'Shah', that seems pretentious in Gorkha, which was not a big kingdom in its day. If I were a neighborhing king, I might have been tempted to attack just to put those pretentious people in their place! So is there more than a little creative fiction in the royals' family history? (WT-en) LADave 03:18, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

"Dev" means "deity". It may be tacked on because of the belief that the king is divine. This only applies to the current king. Dead kings have outlived divinity and crown princes don't have it yet. (WT-en) LADave 02:06, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

The part Bikram is interesting. It did not exist in the name of the kings until Rana Bahadur Shah. After him, the tradition of Bikram started because Rana Bahadur Shah made Girban Juddha, not the first child born to him, a king. It literal translation means 'not in order'. So all the kings after Girban Juddha are called Bikram and this applies to the currently 'suspended' king.

Volunteering=

Hmm, I dont think I agree with moving the whole Volunteer in Nepal article into the Nepal article. It was never part of the Nepal page before. We have seperate travel issue articles for driving in different places, etc, so there is a precedent for detailed info. I'd include a graph or two about it on the Nepal page of course... but there is a difference between the travel info and the travel topic. (WT-en) Majnoona 23:32, 25 Mar 2004 (EST)

It's short info for a specific country. If it was really long and had various subsections and detailed info, I'd agree... but why make an article for a few sentences? Doesn't make much sense IMO. It's not like Nepal is overflowing with written material either. I think a much better idea would be a general "volunteer work" article; many underdeveloped countries could stand from such help and several organizations exist that organize such projects. -- (WT-en) Nils 05:59, 26 Mar 2004 (EST)

It's not a few sentence-- it's several graphs at this point and I hope it grows with added information. A general "volunteer" article may be ok, but it sounds too general too me-- like a "Driving" article. I would be happy to see travel topic pages on volunteering in all areas of the globe, but you have to start somewhere and I started with Volunteer in Nepal. (WT-en) Majnoona 19:04, 26 Mar 2004 (EST)

Layout

I'm all for the big warning at the top, but is there some way to deal with the crummy layout? There's about two pages of white space along the side-bar... I don't get wikimarkup enough to do anything about it, but maybe just moving the sidebar down or something? Help? (WT-en) Majnoona 10:56, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)

Not mention of the civil war?

The article fails to mention that about 60% of the country is under Maoist-rebel controll and that sporadic firefights occur near military bases. There should be quite an extensive section added to it. --213.65.21.82 20:11, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

There is a mention in the 'Stay safe' section, but if you feel that more needs to be added, please click the 'edit' button and write. However, please bear in mind that this is a guide not an encyclopedia, so the information should be more traveler based. (WT-en) WindHorse 14 Feb 06

Government

The Parliament has been reinstated by the popular movement in April 2006 (the Jana Andolan-II) So the type of the government should be changed in the Infoox.202.161.131.72 04:30, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

Please feel free to do so. -- (WT-en) Mark 05:00, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

Rs500 notes

Regarding the latest addition, are you sure it's a punishable offense to carry the notes, or just unwise? My understanding was that, due to excessive counterfeiting, they were just pretty hard to get rid of... but this is the first I've heard of it being illegal... – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 16:35, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Carrying Indian currency of 500 is punishable offence under the act! I understand this was due to many bad experiences of fake notes of 500 in the past.

Drinks

there is nothing else to drink than alcoholic drinks?

I'm pretty sure you can find water somewhere in the country too... if you know of something that should be added, go ahead and add it to the article or put it here and I'll do it for you... – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 17:54, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Sure there's water. With most people doing their 'business' outdoors, it's practically guaranteed to make you sick, so it should always be boiled or chemically treated enough to kill resistant cysts and eggs as well as bacteria and protozoans. A great excuse for adding alcohol prophylactically, even if it doesn't really work. Tea is safer because it's made with boiling water and won't have you stumbling off the trail. (WT-en) LADave 16:47, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

Nepal regions

The following comments were added to my Talk page by contributor David. (WT-en) WindHorse 01:06, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

The government's super-zones must have been set up for administrative convenience. They lack geographic, historical & cultural validity. Of course travelers might be better equipped to deal with the bureaucracy if they are somewhat familiar with the government's schema. So let's leave this scheme alone for bureaucratic purposes.

However for other travel purposes it made more sense to me to organize things by drainage basins: (1) Kosi in the east, (2) Bagmati (Kathmandu Valley), (3) most of the Gandaki basin, (4) (west) Rapti and Babai basins and stuff north of them (technically in the Gandaki and Karnali/Bheri basins) through the Dhaulagiri range and valleys behind, and (5) the remainder of the Karnali/Bheri basin and Mahakali up to the Indian border. Perhaps these could be called Kosi, Bagmati, Gandaki, Rapti-Dhaulagiri, and Karnali-Mahakali Regions.

For travel purposes it seemed really unnatural to divide Mid-West and Far-west at the Karnali River! Nepalis and trekkers quickly get across rivers via primitive ferryboats or bridges. Major drainage divides -- these tend to be high ridges -- make more sense than rivers as boundaries. Getting up to these ridges can be a serious hike! Nepalis are as practical as anyone else and try to avoid it, thus drainage divides are cultural divides too.

The way I did it has more historical validity too. Khas peoples speaking the progenitor of Nepali developed their core identity in the Mahakali and Karnali/Bheri basins. They detoured around the Babai/Rapti basins into the Gandaki basin to settle and grow rice. Prithvi Narayan appears there in the 1700s and heads east to conquer the Bagmati region (Kathmandu valley), then the Kosi region beyond. He or his heirs also consolidate the rest of the country -- the "Chaubisi" (24 principality confederation of the Gandaki basin) and the "Baisi" (22 principality confederation of the Karnali/Bheri basin).

Each river-oriented region can also be subdivided by elevation into Terai (Madesi and Tharu), Lower hills (Brahman-Chhetri), upper hills (Magar, Gurung, Tamang, etc.), then Bhote (Tibetan). It may be a little complicated, but travelers exposed to this stuff will be better prepared for "ground truth".

Regions

The new district designations are very practical and helpful, and as a frequent visitor to Nepal, your efforts are appreciated. It should be a final goal, however, to produce a totally new hierarchy to replace the government designated zones, and so we could keep the information on the front page short and succinct (like perhaps Bhutan or even India). Do think we could use your list as it stands? It needs to be kept to no more than nine places max (which it is). Under this hierarchy, where are the Solu Khumbu and Dolpo regions. Presumably they are classified under Himalaya? This article might be helpful: Project:Geographical hierarchy#Regions. Maybe some of the more popular tourist areas could be mentioned in the blurb. What do you think? However, I replaced the dab for Pashupatinath and Dakshinkali as these are just temple complexes, not destinations with hotels like Boudhanath. Please see: Project:What is an article?. Anyway, thanks for all your input. Your practical knowledge is very helpful. So, at the moment, do you want to replace the original list with your new hierarchy? That is fine with me. We can tweak as we go along. (WT-en) WindHorse 01:09, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

Moved my detailed discussion of regions to ;Understand' section and put capsule summaries in 'Regions'. I hope this improves flow of this article: lay out key concepts first, develop them later. I also added topic headers under 'Understand' for future development. (WT-en) LADave 14:20, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

Cities

Hi Dave, thanks for continuing to add your knowledge and insights to the Nepal page. It is looking good. However, Wikivoyage has a policy that lists of places (cities, other destinations etc) should not exceed nine, and so I have removed 4 of the places you recently added to the list. Sorry about that. Anyway, please check to see if you agree with my choice of deletions. The cities that are listed should be chosen by their popularity with tourists, and is drawn up to give them easy access to info, like an index. It is not a promotion of places. Obviously, KTM, Pokhara, Patan, Bhaktapur and Namche Bazaar should be listed, but the others are open. Also, the info on the front page should be kept succinct (see India and Bhutan as examples), and more in depth info should be placed on the actual articles themselves. Anyway, thanks for all your efforts. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me or one of the regular contributors. Take it easy. (WT-en) WindHorse 21:08, 8 June 2007 (EDT) Ps. you might find the info on this page of use: Project:Manual of style

Maybe the administrative districts should be tossed out. Development workers need to know them, but not travelers.

So now we have kind of a matrix: south to north and west to east. I think we need to explain both. The south to north is obviously important in understanding the geography. West to east explains the flow of history, as well as certain aspects of geography.

Most treks are along the north-south axis, along rivers and streams. Going east or west means going against the grain with a lot more up and down. Exceptions might be Trisuli(Nuwakot)-Gorkha-Pokhara, Baglung-Dhorpatan(-Jumla), and the Terai or Inner-Terai. This seems to argue for a structure like this:

   * Mahakali, Karnali-Bheri, (west) Rapti region
         o Terai, Siwaliks and Inner Terai
         o Mahabharat Range and Hills
         o Himalaya
         o transHimalaya 
   * Gandaki
         o (repeat elevation structure) 
   * Bagmati
         o Kathmandu Valley 
   * Kosi
         o (repeat elevation structure without transhimalaya) 

Probably the text about regions can be boiled down some. However after looking at the India article, I don't think the Nepal article has gotten too long. Bhutan is far simpler.

Hi Dave - Personally, I am fine with replacing the regional list based on administrative zones with a more traveler-based hierarchy. However, irrespective on how we divide up the Cities and Other destinations, they still should not exceed nine. That is the same for a small place like Bhutan or huge countries like China or India, so I'm afraid I have had to revert that edit. Apologies for that. Think of the front page as merely an index in a book. People don't want to be overwhelmed with info at this stage of their search. They just want easy access to the places they seek. Take a look at Project:Manual of style and Project:Geographical hierarchy. I think you'll find them useful. Anyway, thanks again for your contributions. They are really helping improve the quality of the Nepal article. Incidentally, any further discussions regarding Nepal should be conducted here so thatother contributors may add their opinions. (WT-en) WindHorse 21:26, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

OK, Let's collapse Kathmandu, Patan and Bhaktapur into a single entry. Something like "Kathmandu (the capital) and its satellite cities Patan and Bhaktapur. Also we can delete Biratnagar, Birganj and Nepalganj in that top-level city list because they are transportation hubs, not tourist destinations. Transportation hubs can be dealt with regionally and in conjunction with itineraries.

For the western half of the country, I would add Tansen, Gorkha (possibly combined with Pokhara) and maybe Jumla. This leaves slots open for tourist destinations in eastern Nepal besides Namche. I hardly know eastern Nepal at all, so let others advocate for their faves.

BTW, -gunj endings (Birgunj, Nepalgunj) break with conventions for transliterating devanagari into roman and should be changed to 'ganj'. 'U' in a transliterated word should always rhyme with 'moo', but the sound we call a 'short u' gets transliterated as 'a', which must be where the confusion arose. 76.171.35.220 05:13, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

Hi Dave. Combining cities to form one entry has been discussed many times before and rejected. The 'Cities' and 'Other destinations' lists should not exceed 9, and that's the absolute max. Sorry about that (though it was it good suggestion). In addition, if we can draw up a list of nine popular cities for huge countries like India, China and the US, then Nepal should be no problem. So, I suggest Kathmandu, Patan, Bhaktapur, Pokhara and Namche Bazaar. Gorkha is another possible option. As for the others, I'll leave it up to you. However, in making your decision, don't forget that the list of nine cities is to supply info based on majority usage. It is not a promotion. So, if, for example, thousands of people pass through a transportation hub, it is not for me or Wikivoyage contributors to deny them easy access to information about that place just because we do not think the town is beautiful or interesting to travelers. If the hard facts state that more people visit, say, Biratnagar than Tansen, then information for Biratnagar should be given priority because more people will be searching for it. It is about offering convenience for popular articles. However, I am not saying that the transportation hubs do receive more visitors than the other towns you mentioned, but am just pointing out the philosophy behind the system. As for changing the names of towns ending in 'gunj' to 'ganj, Wikivoyage policy states that the most popular English name has preference, not the official or best transliteration. (Please see: Project:Article naming conventions), and according to Google hits, Birgunj and Nepalgunj are more popular than Birganj and Nepalganj by a two to one margin. So, based on that, we should leave the names as they are (even though I personally agree with you that 'ganj' is a better transliteration). If you have any questions, please feel free to raise them here. Thanks again for your input. Take it easy. (WT-en) WindHorse 10:46, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

hi Windhorse, the Policy of taking up not the nice places, but the places that are visited most makes of course sense but I think applying it by the amount of people going there is not right.The time spent is I think more important, a majority of travellers might come through Birgunj or Nepalgunj or Biratnagr, but only very few will actually stay there for more than a day or two.Its a question of how you interpret the "hard facts", I think we should deny good information on those hubs because, although many people go there people are not interested in those information.Information on these places is not needed as badly as where the real destination lies.Also it doesn't help you a lot, looking for information about nice places to go in Nepal, to find descriptions of bordertowns where nobody really likes to stay. Although of course these towns are really import for transit.Therefore I think also if its a reinterpretation of the rules it could really improve the site and help people to find out where to go in Nepal. Onindo 15.9.2008 (a little late answer but I hope someone will introduce the changes or show me that I am wrong

New regions

Hi Dave, I notice that you have changed all the regions. It looks good. However, does the new hierarchy cover the whole country in its entirety? In addition, the new regions will need to be linked to new articles and any useful information from the previous regional articles transferred to these pages. Furthermore, if there is an overlap, the previous regional articles can be redirected to the new pages, but if they are totally incompatible, then we need to submit them for deletion. I think with the new hierarchy, we can perhaps omit the district articles, except with a few famous ones like 'Solu-Khumbu' and just concentrate on the main centers of population. What do you think? Also, we need to replace the original list of regional names, such as Annapurna, Everest, Dolpo etc on the front page as people will look for these. Thanks for all your hard work, and let me know what I can do to help to complete the new set up. (WT-en) WindHorse 00:18, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Hi Windhorse, The new regional workup is comprehensive. Perhaps a workup on himalayan subranges and noteworthy peaks should be worked into the Understand section. Are there other titles we could ad to 'Understand' to try to solicit contributions? Maybe if we put in 'Mountaineering' someone would actually write it up.

I have linked to all articles I am aware of, except some development region articles that have almost no content. But there may be articles I don't know about yet. If you could post a list, I'll link to any with significant content.

I modified the reference to the food poisoning article slightly. It's a good article with a misleading title. Food poisoning is what you get when food isn't kept hot or cold enough to retard bacterial growth, so toxic metabolic byproducts build up. Botulism would be an extreme example. Treatment is mostly about getting the toxins out of the body or neutralizing them. The article lumps this with issues that might be called 'fecal-oral contamination'. Poor sanitation gets specific disease-causing organisms, cysts or eggs into your body via food and drink. Then treatment tends to involve killing off the organisms that are trying to multiply in your body.

Tropical medicine also seems like a misnomer because Nepal is subtropical, and by the time you reach Kathmandu it's borderline temperate. This rules out many tropical diseases. Some of it still applies, so I kept the link but put it further down in the subtopic. 76.168.50.104 05:53, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Hi Dave - thanks for your continued efforts. Actually, the title of the article "Tropical diseases" is incorrect as many of the ailments mentioned are not confined to the tropics. Maybe we need to think of another title. Any ideas?

I'm not coming up with a memorable title. I'm no M.D., but I think you are correct that all lot of it isn't necessarily tropical, but more accurately third-world. Rabies would be a good example. If you really worked at it you might be able to catch rabies in the U.S., but there would be so many red flags along the way that you wouldn't specially caution tourists about it. The fact that rabies is a significant risk all over Nepal has little to do with climate and lots to do with domestic animals not being vaccinated.

These kinds of risks must vary from place to place. A catch-all article might have to include too many diseases that are in country X but not Y or Z.

Maybe the tropical medicine article should limit itself to diseases that are truly tropical, tropical/subtropical, or with risk substantially increasing as it gets warmer/moister (e.g. fungal infections).

Regarding the list of regions, I was actually referring to the new highlighted titles: Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati. These all need to be tabbed and linked to articles of the same name. For example, we need to set up a new regional article entitled 'Lowlands', which will include a clear description of the area that the region encompasses plus a list of the main centers of population. Without this, towns other than those listed on the main page will be orphaned, meaning they can only be accessed via a direct search. Take a look at Karnataka#Regions as an example. Let me know is I can help with any of this. Thanks again for your efforts. (WT-en) WindHorse 09:42, 11 June 2007 (EDT)...I've just noticed your additions to 'Understand'. Actually, this info pretty much covers the requirements for the independent regional articles. So, once the new articles have been established, this should be moved from the front page and added to these pages. I'll help you with this. Take it easy. (WT-en) WindHorse 10:15, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Conceptually it's a matrix or graph. Let's call basins "regions" and elevations (Outer Terai, Siwaliks,...) "zones". Then we could imagine an XY matrix -- regions by zones. But we don't want to go very far with this because zones are just a means of orienting the reader, shorthand for what kind of terrain to expect. OK, so we could organize things by zones to a certain extent: travel destinations in the Outer Terai, in the Siwaliks, in the Inner Terai, ... Beyond that, road trips, treks and rivers are usually multi-zone so we don't want this structure to get too Procrustean. (more to come...)

Anyway, the priority at the moment is that the new regions (i.e. Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati) get tabbed and new articles with these names are started. If this doesn't happen, then there is a strong possibility that everything will be reverted to its original form, which would be a shame after all the hard work you have put in. In addition, once the new regional articles are set up, then we will need to change the breadcrumb link on the towns to accommodate the new regional names. I'll help you with this. Take it easy. (WT-en) WindHorse 23:15, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

I've been looking at the divisions more closely. At the moment, we've got Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, which cover vast tracts of land, and then we've got names of actual river valleys, such as Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati. Nepal is not a huge country, so we should not exceed a categorization that exceeds eight or nine regions. If we use the current sub-regions of the Lowlands, Midlands and Himalaya and Transhimalaya regions (such as 'Outer Terai', 'Kanchenjunga' 'Mahabharat' etc) plus the river basins, we will have far too many regions. So, I'm thinking we should combine two or three of the valleys under one regional title, for example 'Eastern River Valleys', 'Eastern River Valleys' etc. I'm really not familiar with the geography of Nepal at this level, so we need your expertise here. Finally, the regions section should look something like this: Karnataka #Regions or Japan#Regions. Thanks. (WT-en) WindHorse 00:42, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

Restoration of former regional hierarchy

I have restored the former regional hierarchy to allow access to information on districts and cities not listed on the front page. These can be removed when the new hierarchy is complete. (WT-en) WindHorse 09:55, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

To avoid unnecessary clutter on the main Nepal page, I have placed the the unlinked regional lists on this page (below). They can be restored when they are ready to be linked to articles. Otherwise they can be left here for reference as much of the same info is available on 'Understand' section. (WT-en) WindHorse 10:42, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Nepal can also be divided into elevation zones from south to north and river basins from west to east.

Elevational Zones

• Lowlands
  • Outer Terai - Nepalese territory, but geographically, culturally and linguistically more like adjacent India.
  • Siwalik Ranges - outermost range of low foothills.
  • Inner Terai - large lowland valleys inside Siwalik Ranges.
• Midlands
  • Mahabharat Range or Lesser Himalaya nearly continuous across country, 2,000 to 3,000 meters high, separating lowlands from 'hills' to north.
  • Valleys north of Mahabharat Range. These include the wide Kathmandu and Pokhara valleys, as well as narrower valleys along rivers and streams. These are the main rice growing areas in the hills.
  • so-called Hills north of Mahabharats, up to midlands habitation limits at about 10,000'/3,000m.
• Mountains
  • Lekhs - mountain ranges rising above midlands' permanent habitation zone into subalpine or alpine zone with snow cover in winter but not through summer.
  • Himalaya means 'abode of snow', i.e. mountain ranges higher than the permanent snowline. There are about twelve himalayan sub-ranges in Nepal including Kanchenjunga, Khumbu (Everest), Langtang, Ganesh, Annapurna, Dhaulagiri, and Kanjiroba. The highest summits in these ranges usually exceed 22,000'/6,700m. and sometimes exceed 26,000'/8,000m.
  • Transhimalaya - In the Karnali and Gandaki basins a number of valleys and lower mountains north of highest ranges fall within in Nepalese territory. This zone is inhabited as high as 17,000'/5,000m. by essentially Tibetan peoples. However in the Kosi basin the transhimalayan zone is in Tibetan territory.

River Basins

• Three largest basins, west to east:
  • Karnali - with major Seti and Bheri tributaries in western Nepal, original homeland of Khas peoples who colonized eastward and now dominate the country. Their language evolved into modern Nepali.
  • Gandaki - seven major tributaries in central Nepal. Also a staging area for Khas families who became the country's unifiers and rulers.
  • Kosi - also seven major tributaries, in eastern Nepal. The last major region to be conquered by the Shahs and colonized by the Khas.
• others:
  • Mahakali - extreme western Nepal, west of Karnali basin. The main stem of this river is Nepal's western border with India. Local people may be culturally and linguistically closer to adjacent Uttarakhand state of India than to most Nepalis.
  • Rapti and Babai - in mid-western Nepal between Karnali and Gandaki basins. A barrier to Khas expansion because of extensive rugged highlands and very limited rice-growing land north of the Mahabharat Range. South of this range were dangerously malarial valleys.
  • Bagmati - between Gandaki and Kosi basins, includes the Kathmandu Valley with the capital and other historic cities.

Cities and Towns

Being familiar with tourist movements around Nepal, and what tourist want I find the Nepal page could do with some updating. May I suggest the following order, in relative order of popularity:

• Kathmandu
• Patan
• Bhaktapur
• Pokhara – The 'Gateway to the Annapurna'
• Jiri – The 'Classic Gateway to Everest'
• Lukla
• Namche Bazaar
• Nepalgunj
• Biratnagar
• Birgunj

I recommend including Jiri and Lukla over Namche Bazaar. They are major towns/entry-points on the Classic Everest Base Camp Trek and Everest Base Camp Trek, respectively. Jiri is referred to as the 'Zurich of Nepal' due to the efforts by the Swiss Development Cooperation (SDC) over the last fifty years. In addition, although tourist numbers have dropped by 80% in the last 8 years since the construction of the airport at Lukla, there is a revival along the route as airfare has increased and tourists are avoiding the heavily commercialised routes.

For travel and tourist purposes Nepalgunj, Birgunj and Biratnagar are informative but thats it, often described as the 'armpit' of Nepal! But as transport hubs they warrant inclusion. Although excluding them would allow for more relevant entries? A link to Lumbini is already sufficient in the Sacred sites section so I would remove Bhairahawa and Dharan although attractive is by no means a major city or tourist destination (it would come under the Kanchenjungha link in the Remote Arreas section?).

You make some good suggestions. However, on WT places are listed in alphabetical order (with the capital city on top), not by popularity. This saves a lot of arguments, as popularity is very subjective. Personally, I would say Namche is a far more popular place for tourists that either Jiri or Lukla. Basically the bus or plane arrives at these places from KTM, and trekkers immediately head out of town. Only on the return journey do they spend a night while waiting for transportation the next morning. To be frank, there is nothing in either town to attract tourists - just a row of newly constructed lodges. Namche, on the other hand, has several attractions. In addition, it is not unknown for trekkers to use Namche as a base and just do day trips to places like Tengboche or Khumjung etc. No body will stay in Lukla or Jiri longer that necessary. As for Bhairahawa or Dharan, I have no comment as I have not visited these towns. Please feel free to delete them if you can substantiate your reasons... Thanks again for your contributions. They were very helpful (WT-en) WindHorse 03:57, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Other Destinations

Khumbu or SoluKhumbu is a District of Nepal and is covered by the link to Everest Region above. Dhorpatan and Rara Tal are in the Far West, if we put them all under one link that would allow inclusion of more destinations, given that 9 is the max? May I suggest this order:

• Annapurna - This link would include Manang, Muktinath, Mustang… and possibly Pokhara, Sirubari, Gorkha, and oter interesting places on the KTM-Pokhara route
• Everest - Sagarmartha National Park, Everest Base Camp Trek (Lukla), Gokyo Ri, Classic Everest Base Camp Trek (Jiri), Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek, 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'.
• Langtang - Tamang Hertiage Trail
• Chitwan - Safari and Chepang Heritage Trail
• Lumbini - Birthplace of Lord Buddha
• Around Kathmandu Valley - Nagarkot, Dhulikel, Helambu trek and Daman
• Illam - The tea producing 'Darjeeling' of Nepal
• Remote areas -Rowaling Himal, Gaurishankar trekking. Dhauligiri, Manaslu, Kanchenjunga, Dolpo, Mustang and Humla are in remote areas.

Sacred Sites

• Kathmandu Valley - Perhaps we could put all the sacred sites in the Kathmandu Valley Together? Boudinath, Swayumunath, Pashupatinath, Durbar Square, Patan, Bhaktapur, Parping, Dakshinkali etc
• Lumbini, of course is worthy of its own link or it could lead a 'Buddhist Sites' heading?
• Pilgrimages: Muktinath, Gosaikund, Janaki Temple, Mankamana…
• Sacred Lakes: Nepal has over 500 sacred lakes... Gokyo, Gosaikund, Jata Pokhari, Panch Pokhari, and more
• Buddhist sites / Padmasambhava's sites: Parping, Haleshi, Thulo Sailung…
• Hindu Sites: Janaki etc

Trekking

Can I suggest reviewing the layout of this section to reflect the following? (formatting/links to be fixed)

• Annapurna Region treks
  • Annapurna Circuit: A 3-4 week trek around the Annapurna mountains.
  • Jonsom-Muktinath Trek: The last week of the Annapurna Circuit, done in the opposite direction. Known as the "Apple-Pie Trek" partly for crossing the apple growing region of Nepal.
  • Annapurna Sanctuary Trek
  • The Royal Trek

• Everest Region treks
  • Everest Base Camp Trek: Stunning scenery, Wonderful people. See 'Regions' - Khumbu
  • Mera Peak Climbing: Enjoy panoramic views of Mt. Everest (8,848 m; 29,030 ft), Cho-Oyu (8,201 m; 26,910 ft), Lhotse (8,516 m; 27,940 ft), Makalu (8463 m; 27,770 ft), Kangchenjunga (8,586 m; 28,170 ft), Nuptse (7,855 m; 25,770 ft), and Chamlang (7,319 m; 24,010 ft).
  • Island Peak Trek in the Everest region takes in some of the most spectacular scenery in the Himalayas.
  • Gokyo Ri
  • Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek,
  • 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'

• Langtang and Helambu region treks
  • Langtang Trek
  • Tamang Heritage Trail
  • Helambu Langtang Trek: Relatively easy Trek from Kathmandu

• Pro-Poor Rural Tourism

Tourism is a dynamic sector of economy and accepting it as a vehicle of poverty reduction is a relatively new concept in Nepal. In the rural Nepal context, pro-poor tourism means expanding employment and small enterprise opportunities especially pro-Indigenous Peoples, youth and pro-women. Recent pro-poor initiaves in Nepal include the UNDP-TRPAP and ILO-EMPLED projects. According to the NTB rural tourism in Nepal focuses on "Village Trek" visits to indigenous people that “… will make tourists, experience rural life and Nepalese hospitality off the beaten path with all the beautiful scenery and cultural diversity of Nepal.”

• • Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek,
  • 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'
  • 'Indigenous Peoples Trail'
  • Tamang Heritage Trail
  • Chepang Heritage Trail

• 'Ethno-Tourism' or Cultural Treks

Ethno-tourism is an increasingly popular in Nepal. Ethno-tourism is a specialized type of cultural tourism and can be defined as any excursion which focuses on the works of humans rather than nature, and attempts to give the tourist an understanding of the lifestyles of local people.

• • 'Numbur Cheese Trek' in the Everest Region
  • 'Indigenous Peoples Trail' in Ramechhap
  • 'Majhi Fishing Experience' on the 'Sun Koshi'
  • Helambu Trek in Langtang
  • Tamang Heritage Trail in Langtang
  • Chepang Heritage Trail in Chitwan

Social Responsible Trekking Companies: Can we review this section? Just because a tour operator has been in operation for 20 years or is run by a friendly Sherpa family (as much as I do love them) that does NOT make them 'socially responsible'. Operators are 'socially responsible' only if they promoting proper porter treatment and cultural and environmental sensitivity among their clients in line with MAST and the UN-WTO Sustainable Tourism Criteria [1]

Can we make a separate heading for 'Other tour operators' to include Friendship Nepal Tours. Or even better can we exclude tour operators who are not openly committed to social responsibility and promoting policies on porters' rights and working conditions? This means deleting them, but I am happy to put it back in if they join MAST! [2]

Regions revisited

There has been a lot of discussion on Nepal's regions, and now I'm trying to get a map of it. But it isn't easy: many regions have been called before, but there is still no clarity on them whatsoever. Could anyone help out in this matter? I try not to use government regions, but travel regions instead. We have the elevation system (which goes north-south) and the river basin system (which goes east-west), and it's pretty hard to combine both systems in a regional division as they overlap.

Now i got nine (!) elevation regions from south to north:

• Outer Terai
• Siwalik Range
• Inner Terai

• Mahabharat Range
• Middle Hills
• Valleys

• Lekhs
• Himalaya
• Trans-Himalaya

Then I got five river-basins, west to east:

• Karnali (with Seti and Behri) (large basin)
• Rapti and Babai (small basin, can combine with gandaki)
• Gandaki (large basin)
• Bagmati (Kathmandu Valley) (small basin, though important)
• Koshi (large basin)

I can combine the elevation regions to three regions (Terai, Midlands and Himalayas). But then what about the river-basins? We could make it Karnali, Gandaki, Bagmati and Koshi, but these regions overlap with the elevation regions. How could we combine this? We need to come to around 6-8 top-level regions all spread over the country, making use of all these geographic elements. I hope someone with better knowledge of the country can help out. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 22:55, 1 January 2010 (EST)

No replies unfortunately, but i've done a lot of reading, and got to the following region scheme (based off the elevation regions):

• Kathmandu Valley
• Himalayas
• Middle Hills
• Western Tarai
• Eastern Tarai

I followed the mountain ranges as they give an indication to the traveller what kind of landscape to expect in the area (and thus what to do there). Also, these geographic boundaries have led to cultural boundaries as well, so the traveller can more easily grasp the historical, cultural and ethnic differences of Nepal. I split the Tarai range up, simply because there are a lot of towns there. I considered a similar split for the Middle Hills, but there is not much to do in the "Eastern Middle Hills", so instead I chose to take the Kathmandu Valley out of there (as it's a major tourist destination by itself). Of course changes can still be made, so I'm always open for comments.

The map:

—(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:00, 2 January 2010 (EST)

That's a really pretty map. I'd recommend waiting a good week at least to see if any other contributors know enough about the country to add advice. If no, then plunge forward and add it to the article. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:30, 2 January 2010 (EST)

Tours

Whilst accepting that Nepal is just the sort of destination where we do need some tour listings, there is a long list here, all in violation of WT policy on tours - no addresses etc. This needs looking at by someone familiar with the country.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:54, 26 April 2010 (EDT)

"Understand" section

What do you make of it?

Some reactions from me:

The "Elevation Zones" subsection is a good idea, but would it be easier to read if we separated the demographic information into additional little paragraphs or something?

I'm loathe to delete the interesting information in the "History" section, but I think it should be made more clearly chronological, and I'm wondering whether some of the specifically regional sub-histories, if you like, could be put into region articles. Also, there's a whole lot of history since the 18th century that's very important for visitors to know about. For example, the relationship between the British and now Indians and the Gurkha soldiers, the relationships between Nepal and British India/independent India and Tibet/China, the Maoist insurgency, the peace treaty in 2006, the abolition of the monarchy and somewhat fitful but still active transition from absolute monarchy to multiparty constitutional democracy, the adoption of a new constitution yesterday, the opposition to it by regional ethnic minorities in the southern part of the country.

The "Caste, Ethnicity, Religion and languages" section is interesting, so I'd be reluctant to delete it, but I think it should have more internal links: For example, I just linked Tarai. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:28, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

New remarks about "Other destinations"

The "Other" in "Other destinations" refers to their not being cities (but, rather, national parks, wildlife preserves, important mountains or mountain ranges, archeological sites and so forth), and the word "city" is understood on this site to encompass all forms of human communities, including small towns and villages. So what do we do with these listings?

• Daman — tiny village in the mountains offering panoramic views of the Himalayas; especially stunning at sunrise and sunset

Tiny it may be, but is it an "Other destination"? Not by a strict reading of Wikivoyage guidelines.

• Nagarkot — a hill station one hour from Kathmandu offering excellent views of the Himalayan Range

Hill stations are still towns.

I haven't gone through the rest of the listings with a fine-toothed comb to see whether they, too, may be villages or towns, but at least their descriptions emphasize something other than that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:03, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Currency notation

What is the correct notation for Nepalese rupees? I've seen, for example:

• NPR2000 Trekking_in_Nepal
• ₨300 Annapurna_Sanctuary
• ₨.2000 Annapurna_Sanctuary Note: This is the unicode "₨"
• N₨1500 Annapurna_Sanctuary
• N₨.110 Annapurna_Sanctuary
• Rs500 Chitwan_National_Park Note these are the characters "R" and "s" rather than the unicode "₨"
• Rs 2500 Chitwan_National_Park

Muddyhikers (talk) 17:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Which one do you think is most commonly seen in Nepal? The Wikipedia article on the w:Nepalese rupee uses "Rs.". It seems unnecessary to specify Unicode characters when plain text is clear (and easier to type). Ground Zero (talk) 17:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I spent the day actually paying attention to what the locals use in Kathmandu and it seems like it is about as random as the existing wikivoyage notation. I've seen:

• No symbols (on menus especially)
• NRS. 1,250
• RS 500
• RS: 1350
• RS-5000
• Rs. 3,500
• Rs9650

The most common seems to be "Rs" (or "RS") followed by some symbol (./-/:) then a space and then the price. It may make the most sense to use "Rs. <Price>" which is relatively common and has the added advantage of matching the official wikipedia notation. Muddyhikers (talk) 15:49, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I would support that. Thank you for doing the research and reporting back. It's very cool that you're in Nepal. Ground Zero (talk) 17:21, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

So something like Rs. 100? Sounds good to me. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

What about रू, though? I'm seeing that on the Wikipedia page. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:18, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I haven't seen this as part of any English-based signage. That's not to say that it isn't used in signs written in Nepali. Muddyhikers (talk) 15:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I support Rs. 100 (with space). Cheers Ceever (talk) 08:07, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

12-hour or 24-hour clock?

Which is more commonly used? Ground Zero (talk) 18:16, 3 December 2019 (UTC)