Talk:Oxford (Mississippi)

The page is great. A few of the restaurants and bars are missing addresses. Would someone be able to add this information? I would find it very useful. Thanks.

Oxford does not allow alcohol of any kind on campus. This article says that it allows liquor. This is not true. However, during football games, sometimes security will look the other way when it comes to wealthy alums who'd like a little vodka with their tonic. However, if you're a student, you better believe an officer will pour your entire bottle out, and there is no alcohol allowed in the stadium, except in the boxes, where it is still illegal but often goes unnoticed.

Article status

(1/5/2005) I took out the "stub" message. In less than 24 hours from its creation, the page has become pretty comprehensive.

Check out Project:Article status. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:37, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

I upgraded it to "guide" status...working on becoming a "star"!(WT-en) Tennreb 11:02, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

(1/5/2005) I deleted the link to the driving directions because Wikivoyage says not to link to outside map services.70.60.81.229

I removed the descriptions on the chain restaurants, such as Applebee's and Chili's, because everyone already knows about them and readers may get bogged down with unnecessary details. I'm thinking of deleting them altogether because Wikivoyage says not to include listings you wouldn't recommend, and no one would recommend someone visit Oxford and eat at Chili's. (WT-en) Tennreb 11:37, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

That's fine. It's not that there is a problem with recommending those chains, but if you have enough restaurants already, it's fine to not bother with them. In a one-horse town, by contrast, a single Applebee's could be cause for celebration. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:37, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

What are Applebee's or Chili's? I have no idea what Applebee's or Chili's are, as we don't have them in New Zealand. Are they like Cobb & Co. or the Fisherman's Table - Chain Restaurants that serve a standard menu? A mention, even if it was just a street address and website link might be a good idea. You never know, if I ever visit Oxford that might be the first time I might want to go to one of these places. We are wanting to be a complete guide aren't we? Why shouldn't we mention the big chains. I might not want to eat McDonalds every day ...... though I am sure my kids would love to and did on a recent holiday. If I didn't have a local to guide me around, I could have wasted lots of time searching for the right place. So knowing where these places are might be useful. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:22, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

If you came to Oxford all the way from New Zealand and you ate at Applebees or Chilis, you probably wouldn't want to come back. (WT-en) Tennreb

I'm not sure including information such as motor freight and parcel services is really necessary. People may choose not to read the page if there is too much information that doesn't concern them. Also, everyone already knows FedEx ships to Oxford and everywhere else. (WT-en) Tennreb 11:40, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

That might indeed be Too Much Information. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:37, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

I see that there is a 12 year old vandalising the article. It's now on my watch list to ensure that the graffiti does not last more than a day. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:37, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

For those not familiar with Oxford: the town has a huge rivalry with another town nearby called Starkville, home to Mississippi State University. Many of those associated with that town are intensely jealous of the offerrings of Oxford and will stop at nothing to denigrate it. As this page becomes more widely known, expect the vandalism to increase. I will try to convince some of the people fond of that town to create a page of their own. Hopefully then they will direct their energy in more positive directions. (WT-en) Tennreb

Springfield vs. Shelbyville :) (WT-en) Simone 11:56, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Pictures coming soon. (WT-en) Tennreb

I posted the following warning on the vandal's talk page: "This is a warning for your repeated vandalism of the Oxford (Mississippi) site. If you continue to vandalize this site, your IP address will be placed on the list recommended for banning. If you still continue, we will contact your internet service provider and request that your service be terminated for repeated violatons of the terms of use. I suggest that you redirect your energies in a more positive form, such as creating a page for your favorite locale, such as Starkville. It's easy to do, and creating your own work will be much for fulfilling than attempting to destroy the work of others." (WT-en) Tennreb 15:05, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Added Pizza Den to the food section. Pizza Den has re-opened and is located in another location behind Applebee's. They have the same equipment and menu that Bob used to make them famous.

Sorry, I was deleting that like not aware that it had reopened. Sometime in the future, though, I am going to redo the Eat section in the Wiki style with listings grouped by price. I'm only going to leave the best listings. I feel that it is too long as it is, and visitors will just get lost in anything more than 20 listing. By the way, sign your name with four of the "~" keys (without the quotes. Register so that we can identify you. (WT-en) Tennreb 15:40, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

How is adding a section of links for Southeastern Conference Towns & Cities considered spam? The purpose is to allow fans from other SEC Schools to easily link and view travel information for other SEC Towns & Cities. This section is getting deleted.

I haven't been back to Oxford since April, but I think Duvals closed.? :: (WT-en) Mr. Otis 08:43, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

Images

Great looking guide! Sorry about your vandal... anyway, my one suggestion would be to size down the images, especially the first one at the top. Keep up the good work (WT-en) Majnoona 16:32, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

I was trying to fill that big white space at the top. I plan on sizing it down when I get some more pictures. Then again, i use a pretty high resolution on my screen (1400x1050), so they might appear much larger on a normal resolution. I'll go ahead and size it down some.(WT-en) Tennreb 17:15, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Vandal Information

The primary vandal has an ip address of 70.177.58.120 and the ISP is cox.net. Cox.net also translates to cox.com. The primary server being used by the vandal is in Baton Rouge, LA.

Undoubtedly an LSU fan, another archrival of Ole Miss, the university located in Oxford. (WT-en) Tennreb 17:15, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

The abuse has been reported to Cox and proof of the vandalism is being sent to their abuse department. Cox will research the abuse and warn their user of the violations that they have committed. In the future if there is anymore vandalism, the vandal will be reported so that their ISP can take necessary action.

Comment for anonymous

I added a comment asking our anonymous friend to put his humorous attacks on Uncyclopedia rather than here. --(WT-en) Evan 17:11, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

The attacks seemed to stop, so I removed the comment. (WT-en) Tennreb 10:57, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

Google

Google doesn't seem to be picking up on the page. If you search for "Oxford, MS travel" or "Oxford, MS travel guide" a bunch of really bad sites come up, but no Oxford on Wikivoyage. It's in the database, but just not very highly ranked. What are some ways to get Google to rank it higher? (WT-en) Tennreb 15:19, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

It takes a while basically. It helps if you mention the article in appropriate contexts in online forums. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:47, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

Great Job

Hey, I just wanted to say that you're doing a great job with this article. Thanks!

There are a couple of things which are probably going to get changed at some point in the future, for instance this is probably the first article I've seen which has actually too many listings in the eat section. We're trying to make a travel guide, not a phone book, so the comprehensive listings will probably be pared down to just recommended ones, and the sections will probably be limited to the usual "Budget", "Mid-Range", and "Splurge" from the Project:Manual of style. You don't have to do it yourself, but please don't be offended when somebody does.

Thanks again for your hard work on the article. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:47, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

I deleted some of the entries that you wouldn't recommend to visitors. Most of the listings were copied and pasted by another contributor from a government tourism website, which explains for the format. I'll eventually put them in the proper format. (WT-en) Tennreb 12:52, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

SEC

One other question, what is the SEC (apparently not the Securities and Exchange Commission)? -- (WT-en) Mark 05:25, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

The SEC is the athletic conference in which Ole Miss is a member. This part of the page was put in so that visiting fans from the other SEC Schools can view travel information related to the various SEC Schools.

How is adding a section of links for Southeastern Conference Towns & Cities considered spam? The purpose is to allow fans from other SEC Schools to easily link and view travel information for other SEC Towns & Cities. This section is getting deleted.

The cross links are not needed. Fans should be able to locate information on the cities using normal navaigation in WikiTravel. -- (WT-en) Xltel 20:25, 26 Jan 2006 (EST)

I suppose you are right, but the person doing the posting doesn't read this discussion page (I don't think he does, anyway). You may end up with an edit war. (WT-en) Tennreb 21:43, 26 Jan 2006 (EST)

Even if they are unwanted because they aren't MOS they still are not spam. Wiki-spam is the addition of inappropriate links to stuff outside of Wikivoyage. This was just a little navigational tool for within Wikivoyage that somebody thought was useful. Actually there's a precedent for stuff like this: Paris. Evan stated his opposition at the time the arrondissement navigator was added, but I find myself using it all the time, so I'd hate to see it go.

For this SEC thing, I think you're right, Xltel, that it's not really needed probably (don't teams go to one town at a time?), but if it has to be there, Tennreb, then maybe there should be some explanation of what it's there for and what SEC stands for. -- (WT-en) Mark 01:00, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

The original unsigned post above is from 24.159.188.173 who is the author of the cross links. The only reason I was calling it spam is it was appearing on all the cities where this college conference is located (except Little Rock where some games are played), so it was appearing on 11 or so pages. And, it appeared to me as a promotion for sports for the Southeast Conference (SEC) which is a college sports conference. When I saw this poster only posting these cross posts, I assumed it was an enthusiastic fan of the SEC and I should not have assumed that. I should have removed them with a note that would not inflame (ie: unwanted cross links) and I apologize for not doing that. In addition when I think of spam, it is where you are getting a lot of something you don't want. Spam on WikiTravel is considered as external links, so I am wrong again. But, apology out of the way, I think this is a slippery slope as there is a college football conference in 100's of cities, not to mention pro sports and then you could get into little league sports for smaller towns. The links in Paris appear to be links to districts inside the same city and not links for sports teams or at least that is what I see. Is there something like cross links for World Football in each of the cities? Is that needed? Sorry, about using "spam" in my removal text. -- (WT-en) Xltel 06:11, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

We want the internal links for the Southeastern Conference on our page. It is a convenience for other fans of SEC Schools to use to view travel information about other SEC Towns or Cities. Stated in the Project:Internal links is the following:

"In the Links to other Wikivoyage pages should be incorporated into the text of an article if practical. Be liberal with linkage, but try to only link the first instance of an article name."

None of the links are external, they are internal and informative to many users and SEC fans who might use this page. We want to keep the internal links for WikiTravel for the Southeastern Towns & Cities.

I'm still not sure that this SEC nav thing is all that useful really since people travelling to see a game already know the name of the town but I think a better way to do it would be as a template. It might also be useful as a category, or even a region. I think traveling for sporting events is almost certainly Project:Another way of seeing travel.

That said, one little semantic issue: it's User:(WT-en) Xltel's page too (and everyone else's). ;p -- (WT-en) Mark 07:43, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

My problem with this linkset is that they don't seem to be placed where they are useful. If you are wanting to go to games in the conference, well first of all, if you really care that much about the conference, you probably already know the Universities involved. Second, if you are an Old Miss fan, and want to go to an away game, is it really logical to look into the article about your home region to find them? It's also a slippery slope: do Shark's fans need to know where the cities of the NHL are? Do Raider's fans need to know where the Bronco's are? Do Giant's fans need a list to tell them where the Astro's play? Do Cal fans need to know where the Big Game is held? Ugh. Too much information that is available elsewhere and not generally useful to a traveller to Oxford. -- (WT-en) Colin 10:37, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

I see your point, but most of those towns define themselves as SEC Towns, Nashville being the exception. Also, most people that live in the South identify these towns as SEC towns. When you hear "Auburn, AL" you immediately think "SEC." People going to these towns frequently travel among several of them. Also, I think it does encourage others to build the page for their favorite town. If an LSU fan comes to the Oxford board to find a place to stay and they see the link to Baton Rouge, click on it, and see that there isn't much there, they may go ahead and add some info. But you are right in that they don't need a navigation to find the other pages they are looking for. Perhaps the solution would be to have a seperate page with info on all the SEC towns. Call it something like "Southeastern Conference Fall Football Tour." Visitors could read a little info about each town and the gameday experience, and then go to that town's page for more info. A large number of fans do travel from school to school in the SEC, so it could really benefit a lot of people. Perhaps the user that is adamant on including these links would be willing to work on that. (WT-en) Tennreb 15:35, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

This is not the Yellow Pages

Let's try to keep it to widely recommended places, rather than attempting to list everything. If you wouldn't direct a visitor there (even if the place is good), don't list it. I love Lenny's Sub Shop, but I wouldn't tell someone visiting Oxford "you have to eat at Lenny's!" I believe this conforms with Wikivoyage policy. Also according to policy, I reorganized the Eat section into Splurge, Mid-Range, and Budget. Not everyone would choose to group them this way, but it should conform with the general format of the site. Also, I created a seperate page for the SEC and just linked to that page. That should solve the disagreement over whether to include every link to every town. Hopefully, the SEC page will get expanded into one that includes some info about every town and gives actual tips about touring the SEC. (WT-en) Tennreb 19:46, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)

Map

Who is willing to make a map? In order to become a "star" article, you need a map. I tried following the instructions on the map-making page, but my graphic design skills are too limited. (WT-en) Tennreb 16:11, 12 Feb 2006 (EST)

I'll put it on my list. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:14, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

Just discovered WikiTravel. You guys have done GREAT job on Oxford. I'm going to create a map starting with a hybrid (street and satellite) google map. It should be a cool map, but if you have a better aproach, let me know. Btw, this will be my first contribution to WikiTravel or Wikipedia; i assumue i'll find a 'how to add image' in the help area. -daniel

Are there some good examples of maps on this site, before I get started? Oh, and what exactly is a "star article"? -daniel

Hello! and Welcome! First off, go get yourself a User account so you have a talk page where we can welcome you (there's also aim and icq chatrooms -- check out Project:Help for details). Second, take a peek at Project:Mapmaking Expedition and Project:Article status just to get you started... hope this helps! (WT-en) Majnoona 14:13, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

Hi Daniel, just so you know, we can't use maps from Google because of copywrite issues. To be fair Google themselves would probably let us use them, but not the people who provide their mapping data and satellite imagery. For what it's worth I've done an awful lot of research into this and have concluded that the best way to make USA maps is by using Dept of the Interior Tiger/Line data. If you want to learn how to do this check out the stuff I've written on my user page and the Project:Mapmaking Expedition and do please feel free to contact me offline. -- (WT-en) Mark 15:07, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

But we can trace over Google Maps or any other map for that matter. (See Project:How to draw a map for a description of the process) Information cannot be copyrighted. Only the representation of that information can be copyrighted. We can, for example, print out a map and copy it out by map. It would be perfectly legal. Similarly, we can trace out a map and it will be free of any copyright hassles.--(WT-en) Ravikiran 15:43, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

With the exception of the mention of google I wrote the above mentioned how-to. I'm not convinced of the legality of using Google data, and much prefer to start with aerial photos which I've paid for for the express purpose of mapmaking. Google gets their data from a number of tried and true sources who do on-the-ground fact checking and are quite jealous of their data.

For destinations in the USA however there is a great Free source for mapping data. As I said above the right thing to do is to use the Census Bureau Tiger/Line data. It's Free in the libre sense, and is guaranteed not to come back and bite us on the knee. Try that with Google data and we stand a chance of making trouble if not for ourselves then for some re-user of the data. -- (WT-en) Mark 16:11, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

External links

Man this is a great article! Super-fantastic work! There are a few types of external links that need to be dealt with before this guide makes it to star status:

• mapquest links
• link to video -- we currently do not link out to videos
• events -- It would be better to have events worth mentioning in the guide -- links dont help folks with a print out in their back pocket!
• Job listings -- it would be better to describe the options in general ('specially for foreign visitors) than a list of links
• Links section -- see Project:External links and talk page about why we dont have this section any more

But boy are these little issues compared to the overall quality of the article -- great work on listing formats! (WT-en) Majnoona 14:51, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)

Is it possible to embed the video in the page directly? It is put out by the tourism council, so they allow anyone to use it. It doesn't help those who print the page out, but it offers a great glimpse into the town. (WT-en) Tennreb 11:49, 14 Feb 2006 (EST)

I removed the "Links" section, moving the city link to the top of the page per Project:External links. The links that are gone referred to an arts council, the chamber of commerce, a university, and a couple of newspapers. These could be worked back into the article under appropriate sections if someone sees a need to do so. -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:41, 27 February 2006 (EST)

Work

As suggested by other users, I think we need to limit the "Work" section to a brief description. We need to keep this travel oriented. If someone unfamiliar with the area wanted to find a job, they could use that description to jump-start their own research. Otherwise, people viewing the page for its intended purpose get bogged down in unnecessary details. (WT-en) Tennreb 23:07, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

Events Calendars

The Events Calendars provide very informative links to travelers so that they can determine what events and activities are happening in the Oxford, MS area. Many Wikivoyage pages contain the same type of links being represented in the Events Calendar links. Within the past few weeks, the Wikivoyage External Links editor reviewed this site and did not remove the Events Calendar Links. If these links are not to Wiki standards and they are deleted again, then provide exact, specific reason why these links do not conform to Wikivoyage standards and do not point to the Wiki external links page.

I didn't know we had and "external links editor". -- (WT-en) Mark 13:35, 26 February 2006 (EST)

(WT-en) Jonboy notes in his profile that chooses a random page and brings it in line with the external links policy. He was the editor who deleted most of the links in this article in the past.

Just to be clear for those new to the site-- we don't. (WT-en) Majnoona 16:07, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Wikivoyage Manual of Style: "Wikivoyage policy is that external links should be kept to a bare minimum." Links to every events calendar under the sun violates that policy. One link is enough (in the opening section description), and it covers nearly every event in Oxford that an outsider would be concerned with. This page should provide direct information, not a catalog of links or a yellow pages. I believe that is the intent of Wikivoyage. If you think that one link doesn't cover enough, go ahead an add another one to the section description. No one wants to visit this page and read a list of links, but if you think another link adds vital information, then add it. Just keep it to a bare minimum. Also, I recommend that you register an account and sign your posts. Otherwise, no one can tell if you are a regular contributor or a first time visitor. (WT-en) Tennreb 14:21, 26 February 2006 (EST)

So what is a bare minimum? Does that mean you can only link to a few sites? What is the number? External links are very useful and informative. Links to every events calendar under the sun were not done. The only links that were used were links to Ole Miss and Oxford. The links provide varied information about Oxford such as community events, property values (something I like to see whenever I vist any place), as well as sports events. If every events calendar under the sun were used then this would become a world page. The events caledars are useful for travelers, since they could contain information about specific special events which are not shown in this article. The information put on here is very limited, so external links provide in depth information about a specific event. If you think the information contained in this article is too vast, then someone needs to work on a cliff notes version. I thought the purpose was to provide as much information as possible about a specific travel destination.

That's the policy, if you don't like it, then try to get it changed. You need to read up about the goals and the Wikipedia manual of style. The goal isn't to provide as much travel information as possible but to provide the best travel information possible. This isn't a directory. If you want it to be, then try to get it changed. Otherwise, try to contribute to a directory site such as Dmoz. (WT-en) Tennreb 10:34, 27 February 2006 (EST)

Events calendar websites are clearly disallowed by the extlink policy, though this is a contraversial policy. Those (like me) who are against the current policy argue that keeping up with what bands are in town, and what art shows are upcoming is too much for Wikivoyage to document well, and that a single extlink pointing to a good nightlife guide is occasionally helpful. Your set of links was neither a single link nor frankly do any of them appear to be the type of nightlife guide we were envisioning. If you disagree with the policy, then you need to help lobby to get current policy changed first, and add the links second. No policy is set firmly in stone and they are all open to debate! The place to have the discussion is Project:External links. -- (WT-en) Colin 15:23, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I know this has been a bit of a point-of-contention, but I though there was some agreement as to the compromise of using Open Directory. We let them do what they are good at (providing a directorty of links) while we do what we're good at (providing a travel guide). I'm going to go take a look if there's a good general link for events in Oxford. Please take a look at the open directory page and see if this is going to work for this situation. (WT-en) Majnoona 16:07, 26 February 2006 (EST)

So I found this. I have to admit it's not great, but anyone is free to become an editor (too bad it's not a wiki!) (WT-en) Majnoona 16:12, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I've never ever liked the DMOZ policy. DMOZ is not open in that it's not editable. I didn't agree with it the policy; I just stopped arguing after it was proposed and my arguments against it fell on deaf ears. -- (WT-en) Mark 16:24, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I think DMOZ is a great substitute for 99.9% of all extlinks we get contributed, and to my mind it justifies our current no-to-most-extlinks policy. But I'm still in agreement about the need for an exception for nightlife guides. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:38, 26 February 2006 (EST)

The anonymous contributor is really going to have to address these questions and not just keep adding links back. (WT-en) Jonboy 21:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)

Unnecessary info

[Because I'm the guy who created the need for the Unnecessary Info section of this discussion, and b/c I won't be causing any more problems in the future, I've deleted this section entirely. You can put it back in if you find it instructive, but I think it was mostly me being a punk.]

Great article

I loved this article. We have 2 daughters at OLE MISS and have really enjoyed our frequent visits. We've finally learned the tricks to getting hotel rooms and dinner reservations during football weekends. We were surprised to learn from our senior that alcohol IS now allowed on campus, but no beer..very strange law! We would vote for more restaurants in or near the square. We were very disappointed that Madre and Oxford Steak House disappeared right before the fall busy season. Looking forward to the Florida game...GO REBS GO!