Talk:Working in China

Income tax

The page currently has:

China has practically a high rate of income tax, and is consistent across the country on a sliding scale. The highest tax rate is 45% and is applied on salaries over RMB 80,000 (which in practical terms is at the lowest amount a foreigner would expect to earn).

My experience was quite different. On various salaries 70 to 120 thousand annually in different jobs, the tax deductions coming out of my pay were always well under 10%. I'd have said China has remarkably low income tax rates and that's a big benefit of working there.

Am I out of date, since I left about three years ago? Pashley (talk) 15:40, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Bump. Can anyone with recent experience comment? Pashley (talk) 08:31, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually you are right, the original text above was written on the wrong basis. According to the income tax chart here the tax the 45% income tax would require a salary of RMB 1,200,000 which is significantly higher than written above.

So it depends what kind of work you are doing. For business executives it is still a rather high rate of tax. For jobs paying up to RMB 240,000 then the 20% tax rate is rather favorable compared to European countries. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes. My salary was always in the 5,000-20,000 rmb/month range, not much by western standards but adequate in China & typical for foreign teachers. They deducted 375 rmb/month as that table shows, and that was it. Pashley (talk) 02:51, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

I rewrote the section. Comment or additions solicited. Pashley (talk) 04:25, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

F Visa - fee

The page (currently) shows:

• An F visa is a business visa which allows some work, such as providing training or consulting services to a Chinese client. Getting the visa requires a formal invitation from a Chinese company and quite a bit of other paperwork. The F visa does not allow any form of salaried employment and is usually good for only three or six months.

It appears ambiguous whether the F Visa holder can receive payment for services rendered (rather than salary) for a Chinese client, delivered in China. If the F Visa holder is delivering seminars, lectures or training, etc. are they allowed to receive payment for deliverable (not an employment salary), or not? Or, does any kind of payment for deliverable, under contract, count as any form of salaried employment?

—The preceding comment was added by 64.114.29.225 (talk • contribs)

I'd say the above quoted passage is about as clear as it can be, though if someone knows more I'd encourage improving it. We can cover only the basics here; if this is a big issue for you, then talk to a Chinese lawyer. Perhaps the client company's lawyer? Pashley (talk) 13:26, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Article from a law blog

https://www.chinalawblog.com/2019/06/do-not-teach-english-in-china-and-why-everyone-should-read-this.html

Food for thought. The word on the street is that the Chinese government has been getting stricter with foreigners in every way in the past year or so. I've edited this article a bit to highlight the risks and discourage working illegally, but it could probably use more adjustments. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Canadians in particular may have a problem just now; see warning at the top of the China article. Pashley (talk) 12:44, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

White monkey jobs

Given that immigration enforcement has become more stringent in China, does anyone know what the current status? If such jobs are no longer widespread, or people are getting arrested for doing these jobs, we should reflect this change in the article. The dog2 (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

There are enough people who "崇洋媚外" (to borrow a phrase from one of my Chinese coworkers) that I think demand should still exist for this type of work. Whether it's safe in the current regulatory/political environment I don't know. I probably wouldn't risk it. Anecdotally, I don't think I met anyone who was doing this type of work while I was in Shenzhen, though I know one person who was invited to do it but turned down the offer. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Mx. Granger: If you know more, do you think you could update the section? If there is a real risk of arrest, we should certainly be covering that. From what I have heard, right now the bachelor's degree requirement for getting a Chinese work visa is being quite strictly enforced. The dog2 (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

I think that's right. Enforcement of other requirements has been stepped up too. I'll adjust the section a bit. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Tech jobs

@Mx. Granger: Do you think we should mention these jobs? From what I understand, China has a booming tech industry, and is really keen on turning its tech companies such as Huawei and Xiaomi into world beaters. I'm pretty sure if you have a degree in engineering or computer science, there will be opportunities for you to work for a Chinese tech company. Of course, the caveat is that given the current U.S.-China conflict and how the U.S. is pulling out all the stops to kill China's tech industry, those opportunities may not be available for much longer, and not to mention that mentioning them here might be politically sensitive given the currently political climate. The dog2 (talk) 19:37, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

I think these are probably worth mentioning, yes. I met a German engineer when I was in China, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one. I assume these jobs will be concentrated in first and second tier cities. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:41, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

@Mx. Granger: I have added a small section about tech jobs at the end. Please expand if you know more. The dog2 (talk) 20:03, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Gift giving and bribery

@Mx. Granger: I wonder if you could update the information on this since you worked as a teacher in China fairly recently. I wrote a lot of that section based on what Chinese friends have told me, but many of those people grew up in China in the 1990s and early 2000s, and no longer live in China. And from what I have gathered from my relatives who travel to China regularly for business meetings, the corruption situation has noticeably improved since Xi Jinping started his anti-corruption drive, and while it's not completely gone, right now many local government officials and police officers are less likely to accept bribes because it could have dire consequences for them if they got found out. So I won't be surprised if the practice of giving Louis Vuitton or Gucci handbags to teachers as gifts is no longer as common as it used to be, but I'd like to hear from someone who has actually worked as a teacher in China relatively recently as to whether that is really the case. The dog2 (talk) 00:30, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

It's hard for me to say. No one ever tried to bribe me, but that may well be because of the specific context of the school where I was working. One time while I was in China I did witness someone (a security guard, not a teacher) being bribed, so anecdotally that might be a sign that the anti-corruption campaign has not yet been completely successful. Other than that I really don't know. —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:21, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Regulatory changes for private tutoring

The word on the street (and in the news) is that the private education industry in China is changing in a big way. The government is concerned about the economic and social effects of expensive afterschool classes and about the influence of foreigners in education. This means more regulation on private tutoring, especially when foreigners are involved. The tutoring center I used to work for is closing, and it's not the only one.

Tutoring centers may become less of an opportunity for foreigners wanting to work in China. Other institutions (like preschools/kindergartens and universities) may become the main options when it comes to teaching English.

I don't have much concrete information, but if anyone does, I suspect the article could use some updates. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

A couple I know were in China when I got there in 2002, have been there ever since & seemed content. He's just said on Facebook they are moving to Cambodia because "recent education policy changes have made it unsustainable here." Pashley (talk) 11:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

From FB discussion: "The problem for those here is a huge change in education policy and the training school business is FUBAR ... no weekday evening classes in any core subjects permitted. no weekend classes for anyone below high school." Pashley (talk) 02:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I get the impression universities and preschools may be the main opportunities for foreigners moving forward. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

And probably international schools too. Private tutoring centres are probably going to be a thing of the past since the new regulations kicking in now require them to be run as non-profit organizations, and do not allow them to be listed on the stock exchange. The dog2 (talk) 05:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

• Over 80% of China tutoring firms quit industry: The Straits Times. —Granger (talk · contribs) 07:53, 22 December 2021 (UTC)