Wikivoyage talk:Docents

Why "docent"?

When Maj first came up with this idea, we bounced around a couple of names for the relationship. The obvious one is "guide", like a tour guide, but since we call our travel guides "travel guides" it seemed kind of confusing. Also rejected was "host", since we thought there might be some misunderstanding that there was some kind of hospitality exchange going on and that readers could expect to stay at the hosts' homes.

Although I lobbied hard for "cicerone", which I think is a cool word, Maj settled on "docent", which is (usually) what volunteer guides at a museum or a tourist information center are called. A knowledgeable, friendly person who's willing to answer questions is exactly the kind of relationship we were shooting for, so I think it's a good name. --(WT-en) Evan 14:49, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

This is a really great idea, but how are people to know that an article has a docent? I'm in the process of adding myself as a docent for a few things in New Mexico, and at least as of today, there doesn't seem to be anything new in the article text (say a box at the end) to indicate that the capability has been added. Is that one of those not-implemented-yet features that we'll see in the next few days? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:01, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

It's in the left column, under the search box. Of course this means I have to rework my JavaScript again for the new skin, but that's fine, since it will be more flexible when I'm done. I got at least some work on the Santa Fe map done today by the way. -- (WT-en) Mark 15:38, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

I think the word 'docent' is a bit too obscure; in Europe it means a lecturer in college, not a tour guide! "Maintainer"? "Groundskeeper"? "Pathfinder"? Just plain old "expert"? (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:05, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

Seems to me that just about any word chosen will have some cultural overtones. All of those do. "Guru"? Nah... I'd just as soon leave this alone. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:24, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

Hmm, I did consider "Pathfinder" but Maintainer and Groundskeeper have too much to do with the article and what we want to suggest is a connection to the place. I'd hate to have people start to think of it as some sort of control/ownership of the guide (ie "I shouldn't edit this, it's someone else's page" or "not my problem, the maintainer will deal with it"). I'm not against considering other terms (like Evan said, we changed our mind a few times already) but so far I haven't heard anything that works better. ("Lecturer" isn't too far off the mark in my mind...) (WT-en) Majnoona 23:15, 19 Feb 2006 (EST)

How about savant? (WT-en) WindHorse 20 Feb 06

If it really must be changed, "Sage," maybe? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 00:03, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

Works in French too. That said I'd like to resurrect cicerone which is a really cool word. Since what we're talking about doing here is pretty seriously novel I think importing a new word into English is exactly the right thing to do. I guess the only problem is that there's a travel guide publisher in Britain using that name. -- (WT-en) Mark 03:55, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

How about Cabbie

Isn't the person who normally fulfills this duty called a "cab driver" or "cabbie" ? -- (WT-en) Mark 03:56, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

Err... no. Here's a neutrally radical idea: "Local"? Or "native", "inhabitant", ... (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:04, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

The meaning is exactly right, but I think most people associate the word with a cab driver - at least I do. (WT-en) WindHorse 20 Feb 06

Yes, exactly. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:57, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

The docent by no means has to be an inhabitant, local, or native. I think that a majority of docents will not be. --(WT-en) Evan 10:36, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

other language versions

Hi! Does it work in the other language versions? I added the RDF-Code to an article on German Wikivoyage. It didn't work. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 10:05, 23 February 2006 (EST)

You were using "User" rather than "Benutzer", and you were also putting things in curly-brackets, which is only necessary for template parameters. I've changed your code, and it works, and I've also added a de:Template:hasDocent, which also seems to work. You'll probably want to move that to a more reasonable name in German. --(WT-en) Evan 11:27, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Thanks a lot. What a simple error but a big effect. I am going to suggest 'Insider' it's very common in German to describe a person who knows a lot about a place. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 11:43, 23 February 2006 (EST)

One note about "insider" it's already used by Bootsnall, but maybe it's not a big issue, since they dont currently have a German version! (WT-en) Majnoona

Please add to the guide, how I can add my user of another locale as a docent. Example: I lived 6 months in the city of Karlskrona, so someone missing an information in the page may ask me. I've a user in German Wikivoyage project. I tried hasDocent|de:Username but that redirects to URL .../en/User:de:Username -- but it shall be ...de/Benutzer:Username. Are cross-locale Docents only possible by adding myself as a user in ALL langages and having those pages redirecting to my 'main' user page?! --85.216.10.138 06:40, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

List of docents

Hi there, we have so many list, but I think one with all docents might be useful. If I was looking for a docent in a particular city or region, I could easily contact him/her. Cheers, (WV-en) Felix - 19/May/2006, 17:42 GMT

• I'd support this. It would also help to track growth of the project. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:41, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

"Bump" Hear hear. Would this best be done as a category, to be added to the docent template? --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald ^Talk 10:45, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes here too! Pretty please?! Seems like Peter has the right idea but how to do it I'm not sure. (WT-en) Jordan 17:42, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

Well, a half-year went by with no objections, so I've done this. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Still on Docents

Moved from Project:Travellers' pub I'm not being able to set myself as a docent on the Sao Paulo page. Could it be anything wrong on the server side or am I screwing it up somehow? :) Cheers! (WT-en) Mattalves 18:28, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

The HasDocent template apparently doesn't work properly if you go to an article by way of a redirect (such as São Paulo or Sao Paulo (city) instead of Sao Paulo). These bits of code are somewhat delicate. :) It might be worthwhile to follow Special:Whatlinkshere/Sao_Paulo to find out which pages are linking to it through redirects, and change them to [[Sao Paulo|São Paulo]], so they link directly. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 19:55, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the help and the corrections, Todd! Works fine now :) (WT-en) Mattalves 12:27, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

Idea

How about having docents for a destination arrange discounts for Wikivoyagers that consult the docent for that destination? I think it would be extremely useful, but there are some cons to the idea also. Here is a short list of pros and cons that I could think of. Feel free to edit the list.

Pros

• Increases Wikivoyage's visibility
• Helps the traveller

Cons

• May not be compatible with IB's advertisement plans
• The idea may suspectible to abuse i.e. someone taking a kickback - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:30, 11 June 2006 (EDT)
• It would discourage people from becoming docents. I'm happy to answer questions for people, but don't ask me to start acting as a travel agent for anyone. Even if I'm not obligated to, I don't want anyone to think that maybe I'll also do stuff for them. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 19:00, 11 June 2006 (EDT)
  • Very good point. I don't think it would be feasible anyway, so I withdraw the idea. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 19:04, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Country/region oversight

Swept in from the Pub:

Does Wikivoyage have general overseers for the world's various geographic regions (e.g. an overseeing mod for Western Europe, or Brazil)? It might be useful to copy Wikipedia's example of nominating uber-mods who have the final say on matters pertaining to a specific subject. This would ensure that there was a long-term editor watching over a set of articles who had proper perspective on how they were set out.

For example, an overseer for all article about France would be the ideal candidate for making sure that all France articles conform to Wikivoyage standard formats, could be a responsible figure to turn to for consultation when major changes to that set of articles were proposed, could flag articles which need bringing up to par with the best France articles, could coordinate other mods interested in France, could coordinate efforts to remove systemic bias/failings (e.g. the UK article has problems with semi-humorous regional and class conflicts emerging in the article), and could be the final arbiter on matters to do with France articles. Most of those jobs are already performed by editors working en masse, but haphazardly and in pieces. Appointing someone with a little more power and responsibility to deal with major groups of articles might make the editing of those articles more efficient.

I hope I haven't missed this feature's existence! (WT-en) Polocrunch 17:48, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

We have a system of Project:Docents, where the docent can answer questions about a destination from readers who have questions.

I don't think that travel has the same kind of specialization requirements that deep coverage of a scientific or technical topic requires. I mean, is any particular resident or visitor to Minot really so super-qualified that they should have exclusive and final say over what goes in and what doesn't? That just doesn't seem very reasonable. Things have worked very well so far where people contribute proportionally to their knowledge, dedication to the subject, and free time. A more rigid hierarchy doesn't seem healthy for Wikivoyage at this stage of the game.

Do you have some links on that Wikipedia program? I've never seen it. --(WT-en) Evan 20:07, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Is this working?

I'm a docent for College Park, among other places, and I haven't gotten any questions. Can anyone share any docent success stories? -- (WT-en) Jonboy 16:32, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

I haven't gotten anything either. I'm curious if there's a correlation between which guides have docents and the number of guides with docent's that have great coverage. I've noticed that for a lot of stubs and outlines and even usable guides most of those guides don't have docents and a user will come along and ask a question about the destination on the talk page, but there are almost no questions about Berlin, Warsaw, Cincinnati, Montreal, Chicago, Paris all of which have docents. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 16:54, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

I've gotten a couple of emails, so some questions are making it to docents... I think the difference between outlines vs guide articles is that all of the general questions are answered in the guide-level articles. So maybe users would rather direct their specific questions ("I'm travelling with a dog and cat, are there good pet stores in New York?") to a docent. On the outline and usable articles, the more general questions ("Anyone know how long the bus ride is?") end up on the talk page (and their answers should end up in the articles of course).

On a related note, a section under the Docent page for 'success stories' might be a good idea! (WT-en) Maj 13:30, 29 October 2006 (EST)

I wonder whether the whole this feature was promoted around Wikivoyage, and newcomers encouraged to leave nominations/considering to be a docent themselves? Another thought is having a list somewhere in sight where all pages having at least one docent/having none are listed--inviting people to fill gaps and stuff. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:24, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Another thought is that the "destination docents" box is hardly visible on the article page at all--people rarely look to the sidebar for information, and a fact that article has docents is not visible on printed edition at all. What about having some infobox instead, promoting docents? If we don't want to have it printed, we can make that section web-only using <div class="noprint"> in the templates, for example. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 00:09, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I'd be for it. KEep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:34, 9 November 2008 (EST).

Docents should create a Docent section on their user page

Let's recommend docents to link back to a page describing the concept of Docent (should the link refer to Project:Docents)? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:22, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I plunged forward with this. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 23:58, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Shouldn't this link be to Project:What is a docent? instead of Project:Docents? The first page is for people using docents, the second is mechanics for becoming a docent and being one. Currently, under "becoming a docent", this project page says to link from userpage to Docents, while "Rights and responsibilities" says to link from userpage to What is a docent. --(WT-en) Bill in STL 19:11, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

Yes, I added Project:What is a docent? last year but obviously, I didn't catch every change that should be made accordingly. Feel free to fix. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:15, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

Done. (WT-en) Bill in STL 22:05, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

noDocentsYet template?

Any objections if I create a Template:noDocentsYet template that will invite visitors to sign in as Docents for specific articles? We can invoke such template in the bottom of article (and probably make it unprintable). --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:13, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I'd find it a little odd if the lack of docents was noted more prominently than their presence. Maybe this would be more appropriate for the talk page? Actually, would a nice banner at the top of the talk page noting the docent be a way of making the docent more prominent? -- (WT-en) Jonboy 21:14, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I suggested above to make existing docents box more prominent, but found no support there so far. I can start with placing a box on Talk page just to move idea forward a bit--although it's a bit inconvenient when {{hasDocent}} is used (and looked for when placing {{noDocentsYet}}) on the article page, while {{noDocentsYet}} is proposed to appear on Talk pages. Besides, I agree that on the top of Talk page people will hardly see it at all. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 07:21, 30 November 2006 (EST)

{{hasDocent}} is a blank template!

I just added myself to a guide, only to find out I was adding a blank template. Maybe this idea has been cancel, in which case this page should be updated...or someone should create the template! -- (WT-en) Padraic 17:00, 17 February 2007 (EST)

The template adds Project:RDF to a page. An article with this template included in it will have a new menu that appears in the left navigation that indicates the article has a docent and links to the docent's user page. -- (WT-en) Ryan 17:06, 17 February 2007 (EST)

I consider (WT-en) Padraic's comment as another vote for making Docents much more visible on the page--right now, most readers just don't see it--especially non-experts in MediaWiki environment. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 20:40, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Obviously, I agree! I think it appearing at the end of the article -- and crucially, having a sentence explaining what this means without forcing the user to click through to the "Docents" article -- would be far superiour. Also, I really have to disagree with the word choice of "docents" - I had no idea what this meant and had to look it up, and I'm a native English speaker, unlike many people using Wikivoyage. The fact that under the status quo, the docent info is both visually inaccessible, and unexplained, really inhibits the great things this feature could do. -- (WT-en) Padraic 21:18, 17 February 2007 (EST)

In-article docent identifier

I don't really know how to do the code...but how about something roughly like this:

Wikivoyage has one or more docents for this page -- this means there is someone you can contact to ask any questions which are not addressed in this guide. Docents for {{thispage}}: {{docent1}}, {{docent2}}

I'm sure people could improve this, but just thought I would throw it out there. -- (WT-en) Padraic 22:08, 17 February 2007 (EST)

I am voting to have something like this in docented articles. Maybe bit shorter, but otherwise my only question is where to fit it, as in the end of article we already have article status banner, while at the beginning it may grab too much of reader's attention (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I also have another thing to fit there--huge city reminder on districts). Ideas? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:09, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Actually there's a docent template {{hasDocent|username}} which puts an extra navigation box on the left with the docents listed... which is handy, and also keeps the page cleaner. Check out the India page for an example (WT-en) - Cacahuate 06:19, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Sorry, I didn't read the previous discussions above before my last reply... so my reply is then: No, I don't like this at all. I think the way that Wikipedia articles look with all of their infoboxes and things starts to get really messy, and I really like the way WT is so simple and clean. There's no reason why people can't start to learn to look at the left nav bar for docents, just like they had to quickly learn everything else they know about this site. It seems we're expanding the usefulness of that nav bar all the time anyway, now with the {{related}} template, etc... so the nav bar in general I think is becoming more visible. I don't think this is a big enough issue to warrant adding another box to clutter up pages. I don't like the "has no docent" idea suggested above either... if someone has a question they can leave it on the talk page... docents are a great and novel idea and all, but it's not like an article can't survive without one... (WT-en) - Cacahuate 06:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)

They're just not visible on the page at all. To repeat from the previous section:

>right now, most readers just don't see it--especially non-experts in MediaWiki environment.

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 06:49, 18 February 2007 (EST)

And to repeat from the previous section: I really like the way WT is so simple and clean. There's no reason why people can't start to learn to look at the left nav bar for docents, just like they had to quickly learn everything else they know about this site. It seems we're expanding the usefulness of that nav bar all the time anyway, now with the {{related}} template, etc... so the nav bar in general I think is becoming more visible. I don't think this is a big enough issue to warrant adding another box to clutter up pages. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 08:11, 18 February 2007 (EST)

I don't that it's that people "can't" look at the left nav-bar, rather it's that average readers have no reason to look there unless prompted. And again, it seems that there is no agreement what even to call "docents", so under the status quo, you have a well-hidden link with no explanation of what it means. I think an in-article box is required solely on the basis of explaining the concept. As for where to put it in an article, I say at the end, otherwise my inbox is going to be overflowing rather quickly...-- (WT-en) Padraic 10:28, 18 February 2007 (EST)

One more thing - if infoboxes are the point of annoyance in this issue, there's no reason that Docent info has to be in a box. I have no problem with simply adding it to the text of the article, I just used a template because that would make it easier. -- (WT-en) Padraic 10:32, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Agree here: it can be as modest as

You can contact to ask any questions which are not addressed in this guide to the following wikivoyagers: UserName1, Username2.

or as explicit a article-closing section like this:

More information

For more information on this article, ask wikivoyage docents on {{PAGENAME}}: UserName1, Username2.

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 13:06, 18 February 2007 (EST)

I'm going to jump in here with a strong dislike of more boxes in the content. If the left column area isn't eye-catching enough, then that's a design issue and a request should be added to Shared (something I would support). More in-content boxes is a slippery slope that could leave us with articles that are more meta/editorial boxes/content than guide content. (WT-en) Maj 11:20, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Why do we need to explain the docent feature in the text of articles? should we also then explain breadcrumb navigation, Wikipedia links, the recent changes page, etc within each guide for users who aren't used to looking at the navigation bars? Perhaps a note to "be sure and check the discussion page" about each article in case something there interests the reader? People will discover the docent feature the same way they've discovered everything else about this site that isn't in the text of the articles. By pure magic. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 16:04, 18 February 2007 (EST)

1. Will more people be interested in docents than wiki features such as recent changes? Yes. 2. Will people who are used to talk pages, and all the other features you name, from other wikis also be familiar with docents? No. 3. Is the meaning of the word "docent" less obvious than "history"? Hell yes! 4. Does the logic you just used make a great justification for making every aspect as obscure as possible because eventually people will "figure it out"? Yes. Some people will figure it out, absolutely, but I think the idea is to make features easier to understand, not harder.... -- (WT-en) Padraic 16:26, 18 February 2007 (EST)

1. not necessarily. 2. good point, but everything about WT is different than other wikis, that's why it isn't those other wikis... docent is one of tons of features that are exclusive to WT. I understand your points, mine is that why is the docent feature so special that it needs in-article descriptions when nothing else does? If the word docent is to unobvious, well maybe then it needs to be changed. I for one knew exactly what it meant and roughly what the feature would be used for from the first time I heard it (when I was very new to WT and wikis in general). I don't find the feature any harder to find or use than many other things around here. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 16:36, 18 February 2007 (EST)

why is the docent feature so special that it needs in-article descriptions when nothing else does?

In my opinion, the reasons are: a) the feature is much more aimed at novice users than most of others (which are mostly for editors, not for readers); b) the feature is new and (in my opinion) seriously lacks attention of a mass user (only few see it=>usage is really low) and therefore needs to be promoted; c) I think we believe that docents practice gives us an edge compared to any other guidebook, and we have some expectations on value it can bring (don't we?) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:49, 18 February 2007 (EST)

I don't know - I'd just rather see more usable info going into the guides rather than who to contact with questions. I do like the docent idea, but I think it's a good thing if it stays small... if docents were getting hundreds of emails about their destinations then that says that the article for that destination isn't sufficient. I'm not advocating this necessarily, but the talk page is the most likely place someone will head with a question... if we were to put a docent notice anywhere besides the nav bar, I would say it could be at the top of the talk page. But I still don't think that's necessary either. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 17:10, 18 February 2007 (EST)

I'm of the opinion that if we're going to do docents, we should do them right. I'm still looking for one instance of a "success story" of someone contacting a docent. I think there aren't any (or are exceedingly few) because of the invisibility. I think we need to decide on something more visible, or just do away with them. --(WT-en) Jonboy 21:06, 18 February 2007 (EST)

So how we can have some progress on this discussion? Do we need more opinions here? Other alternatives? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:04, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Aboutdocentpage needs content

The "hasDocent" template inserts, next to the link to the docent's User page, a link to a page Aboutdocentpage. This page had no content. I plunged forward and put in a redirect to Project:Docents. However, I think that Aboutdocentpage needs content of its own: written for the WT reader rather than editor, explaining what a docent does for travellers and how to take accept their willingness to help. See also Talk:Aboutdocentpage. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 14:34, 5 March 2007 (EST)

I have created a new page called Project:What is a docent? and redirected Aboutdocentpage to it. (WT-en) LtPowers 18:47, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Hmm, I see that the "About Docents" link no longer links to Aboutdocentpage; it goes straight to Project:Docents. Can we have that changed? (WT-en) LtPowers 18:49, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Pronunciation

How is docent pronounced? "Doe-scent", "Do-kkent"? This should be clarified at the begining of the page because most people will not have encountered this word before! 61.209.194.166 00:33, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

It follows the standard rule for English pronunciation: the letter C is pronounced like an S when it comes before the vowel E or I. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:00, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

rename Docent to -- ?

Today, I've received an email asking me to be a docent for a traveler who will be visiting Moscow soon--i.e. to work as a personal assistant / guide / whatever, who will help visit some sights for a fee.

So I would vote Docent to be renamed to something that don't have a "paid personal assistant" connotation. Or, at least, to place a visible disclaimer in this article, and offer a template for user pages for personal disclaimers as well.

Unfortunately, my language is not good enough to propose good alternatives to Docents. But I am sure native speakers can help us here ;-) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 13:12, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

"Docent" doesn't infer that at all, it's "A trained volunteer museum guide. A docent is at once a volunteer, a teacher, and a guide". I think it's a pretty good name for what's expected here – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 19:56, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Docent is very much an Americanism, and I don't think many people outside of North America would encounter or understand the word at all. --(WT-en) Inas 17:19, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Haha Inas funny you say that though, I live in Canada and before I was on Wikivoyage regularily, I'd have never heard the word. My dad thought it was a Spanish word, ;). Though I do think it should be renamed (maybe) to a clearer, global word, I suppose. I don't know. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:26, 16 November 2008 (EST).

I see no reason to rename the docent expedition. Project:What_is_a_docent?#What_can_a_docent_do_for_me.3F clearly explains what a docent is and can/will do and each "Docent" section links to that page. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:33, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I supose, but the normal non - member wouldn't really flip through that. I don't know, it's just a thougght. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:45, 16 November 2008 (EST).

I see no real reason to rename it either. Its has a unique flavor, and I like that. However, if we pick a word that few people understand that is only explained on a help page, then we can't act surprised when people don't understand it. If people see a word that they don't know, most will just ignore it, a few will bother to click on it to look it up, and those remaining will proceed with a incomplete or incorrect understanding of it. Its a choice between being a little quirky and off-beat, and being simple, straightforward and a little dull. --(WT-en) Inas 18:08, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Cancha have both? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 18:19, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Sapphire, what do you mean each "Docent" section links to that page? See above. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:07, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Hmm.. not sure now that I re-checked it. I tried finding the MW template to change it, but that was to no avail. I'll see what I can come up with, but, now, as Europe goes to sleep, so must I. -- —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Sapphire (talk • contribs)

I think Peter has taken care if this. BTW, news to me, I didn't realize that it was an Americanism, eeenteresting. A larger question: Has anyone ever been contacted with a question from a user that clearly was asking because you're the docent? I've been a docent for Los Angeles for at least a year or so and never been asked a single thing. Does anyone use this feature really? – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 01:48, 18 November 2008 (EST)

The "About Docents" link still goes to Project:Docents. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:14, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Ah, I see... I just fixed this (by altering MediaWiki:Aboutdocentpage) – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 12:18, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Nice! (WT-en) LtPowers 16:14, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I don't think this is an Americanism, I'm pretty sure it's just a Wikivoyageism—it's not likely apparent to anyone at first glance what we mean by this. As far as I know, no one has ever, in the history of the project, asked a docent a question! I'd make a point of doing so, if only to make this project feel useful, next time I go somewhere that has a docent ;) --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 13:45, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Well, our use of the term may be a little idiosyncratic (much like our uses of the terms "template" and "star" have slightly different meanings that people might have to learn), but it's a perfectly cromulent word. It's frequently used in a museum context. Wikipedia says it's not used in British English, but I have seen it used in Canada. (WT-en) LtPowers 16:13, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Once a great intro Project:What is a docent? is written, my issue is much less critical. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:51, 19 November 2008 (EST)

What do you think is missing that should be added? I just had a look and it seems pretty well written, and very explanatory. I already knew what a docent was prior to this project, but if I hadn't, this article would have clued me in quickly – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 01:35, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Denis is only en-2; I'm guessing he meant "Since" rather than "Once". (WT-en) LtPowers 10:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

True :-) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:06, 20 November 2008 (EST)

LT: How come before WT I never knew what the hell a docent is? I've never heard it really, I'm Canadian. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:32, 20 November 2008 (EST).

You mean you've never been to the National Docent Symposium? --(WT-en) Jonboy 13:10, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Furtherst east I've been is Winnipeg, MB. Never been to TO. In western Canadian culture that word is not used, but it may be in Ontario and Que. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:47, 20 November 2008 (EST).

I believe you. It was at Casa Loma I saw it used. (WT-en) LtPowers 16:37, 20 November 2008 (EST)

OK, breaking out the Google, it appears that the Edmonton Art Gallery has a docent program. I guess it's just one of those words that you have to be in the right place at the right time to run across. Being near DC, this area is lousy with docents. The fact that it's somewhat of an obscure word would be more relevant if this program had proved marginally useful yet. I asked for success stories over two years ago, and I've been underwhelmed. --(WT-en) Jonboy 21:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)

It's actually called the Art Gallery of Alberta and is undergoing a major expansion (demolition of old building back in 06) and will be completed in 09. I've been to the AGA but I never saw that, eh, maybe it's something you have to look for particularily. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:23, 20 November 2008 (EST).

Docent Stuff

swept in from the pub

It seems to me that actually figuring out who is the docent for an article is rather difficult and nonintuitive. Am I misssing something? (WT-en) Rastapopulous 10:14, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Never had anyone ask me anything about Copenhagen, but it's useful for wikivoyage work sometimes. In case you missed it, you're listed right under the search bar as the destination docent, though I agree it's probably hard to notice, unless you know what to look for. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 10:31, 5 November 2009 (EST)

If my memory is right, this is the last discussion on the problem: Project:Docents#In-article docent identifier (ignore that the section name is from a different story). In a nutshell, we considered several ideas on how to overcome that, but neither gained a consensus. Maybe you could help us to move on. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:57, 5 November 2009 (EST)

I liked the idea of a template, although the one shown was a bit too "loud." I personally think a small note in a little template at the bottom might be the best. (WT-en) Rastapopulous 16:28, 5 November 2009 (EST)

I wonder if a larger template at the top of the talk page might not work better. Sometimes people ask questions about the destination on the talk page; maybe if there was a clear "This destination has a docent" box at the top of the talk page, it might direct those people in that direction. And if it's on the talk page, it isn't cluttering up our travel guides. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:43, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Sounds great--except the hypothesis that those "one-click" visitors mentioned elsewhere don't normally visit Talk page at all. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:58, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Yeah, that's the problem. I know some people click on the talk page to ask questions, but I don't know percentages. (WT-en) LtPowers 22:31, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Is there any way to measure these statistics? (WT-en) Rastapopulous 23:02, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Mine it from wikimedia access logs, if anyone both have access to them and have enough skill, time and interest to perform such a research. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:27, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

Where to change the aboutdocentpage URL

I'm trying to get Docents set up on pt:. I've gotten the template working there (pt:Predefinição:TemDocente) and I changed MediaWiki:Docentheader and MediaWiki:Aboutdocent so that the box displays properly now, but I don't know how to change the address that the About link points to. Here on en:, this seems to be taken care of with MediaWiki:Aboutdocentpage, but when I created that page on pt: it didn't seem to change anything-- it still points to a non-existent article called "aboutdocentpage". How do I fix this like en:, so that it points directly to pt:Project:O quê é um docente?, the portuguese equivalent of Project:What is an article?. Any rdf/MediaWiki gurus want to help me out? -- (WT-en) texugo 01:05, 20 February 2011 (EST)

"What is a docent?" is *not* the same as "What is an article?"

I doubt the RDF is currently being used for anything. mw:Extension:Insider is used to put the docent info in the sidebar, according to special:version. That extension takes a parser function {{#insider:userName}} and creates a link to user:userName in the sidebar. The "About Docents" link under the user list has a name specified by mediawiki:insider-about and links to a page specified in mediawiki:insider-about-page. From [1]:

 $messages['en'] = array(
        'insider-title' => 'Destination Docents',
        'insider-about' => 'About Docents',
        'insider-about-page' => 'Project:What is a docent?',
        'insider-desc'  => 'Extension for presentation of destination docents on the sidebar',
 );

 /** Portuguese (português)
 */
 $messages['pt'] = array(
          'insider-title' => 'Docentes do destino',
          'insider-about' => 'Sobre docentes',
          'insider-about-page' => 'Project:O quê é um docente?',
  );

On pt:Amarillo I currently see Docentes do destino Texugo, Sobre docentes. I've redirected pt:Wikivoyage:O quê é um docente? to pt:Wikivoyage:Docentes and the result looks reasonable. K7L (talk) 20:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Docents inherited from WT

All the docent tags from the WT appear to still be out there, pointing to users as caretakers of the respective pages, when in fact many of them may or may not have come to WV with us. Perhaps we should get a script to remove them all and start this whole thing over, with people renewing their commitments? Texugo (talk) 19:47, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd say you're right. LtPowers (talk) 20:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Go to special:contributions, see if they've edited since Nov 10, 2012 (the day the wiki moved to WMF)? (First, remove any auto-added (WV-en) or (WT-en) prefixes.) K7L (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Inherited Docent tags

Swept in from the pub

I don't think it is safe to assume that all docents from WT have come over to WV with us. All the docent tags are still out there, pointing to users who may not even exist on WV, and at the very least have not expressly renewed any commitment to be a docent here on our new site. I would suggest that some kind reset is necessary, probably a script to go and remove all the existent docent tags and/or message users existing here which correspond to existing docent tags to confirm their commitment. What say ye?Texugo (talk) 20:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm.. Last time we looked at this, we could count on one hand the number of docent questions ever asked. --Inas (talk) 22:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I ask them, but usually by email. No one has ever asked me a thing, though. I thought that someone had already removed all the docent links for old accounts [2]? --Peter ^Talk 22:44, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Inactive docents

It's that time again where we have a clear out of inactive docents. I have left a message on the talk page of all docent accounts that have been inactive for between one and three years, asking whether they're still available. Accounts that have been inactive longer than that period (only about two people), I just removed the docent tag without asking.

I've just noticed the line on here: "If a docent has been unreachable for one month, without making note of his or her absence, their name can be removed from the docent list." One month is a long time to be unreachable; if you're asking someone a question about a travel destination, even if they're a volunteer, you expect an answer within a few days, not a whole month. I therefore propose to modify the sentence to "If a docent has been unreachable for one week, without making note..." and will terminate the docent status of the people I contacted today accordingly.

Thoughts? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:23, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

No thoughts, so I'm just going to do as I said :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Inactive docents 2022

I have messaged six docents who have been inactive for more than a year. If they don't reply confirming their availability as a docent within a week, I'll remove their docent status.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:39, 4 September 2022 (UTC)