Talk:Northern Cyprus

Formatting and language conventions For articles about Northern Cyprus, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: 100 TL, and not TRY 100, ₺100, 100 YTL, or 100 lira (although "₺" is commonly used to denote Turkish lira, it is not properly displayed by many browsers). Please use American spelling.

Crossing the Green Line : regulations

To clarify this issue a bit : The EU-Commsssion has issued a direct regulation regulating Green Line traffic. Since the EU does not recognize the Green Line as a border it has extended the freedom of movement principle from the Maastricht treaty to all of Cyprus, thus abolishing all restrictions on cross-Green Line movement of people. This means that EU-Citizens (including Republic of Cyprus citizens) may cross the Green Line in either direction, regardless of their point of entry into the island. They may stay on either side as long as they wish. (Note that the TRNC-authorities do impose limitations on the lenght of stay).

Because the freedom of movement clause in the Maastricht treaty only applies to EU-Citizens, the regulation also legally applies only to EU-Citizens. This means that people from countries outside of the EU can be turned back by Greek Cypriot authorities at the checkpoints if they entered the island via the north . In practice citizens of western countries (Switzerland, USA, Australia) are rarely turned back, while Turkish citizens and citizens of other countries that need visas to enter the Republic will almost always be turned back. (WT-en) Travelbird 02:21, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Great info! I tried to summarize this in Get in, please correct any mistakes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:44, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Dispute

As the two regions are nearly completely separate from a traveller's point of view, this article will concentrate on the northern territory governed by the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. This is not a political endorsement of claims by either side in the dispute.

But by promoting this a destination in its own right, isn't Wiki Travel actually being politically involved and endorsing travel & tourism here? Perhaps all issues should be resolved first before dedicating a page?

I suggest one page for the entire island, split according to attractions and interests in their own right - and that way continuing bi-communal relations for a peaceful re-unification. Inspirational actions such as this are what will help, motivate and drive Positive change. 81.4.166.190 05:44, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

We report reality as it is, not as it should be, and unfortunately the North and the South remain pretty much totally separate from the traveller's point of view. See Project:Be fair. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:18, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Homosexuality is legal since 1 January 2009

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-2726.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Europe#Recent_developments

Ouzo and Raki are distinct drinks

the drink section is in error Raki is not Ouzo —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 198.54.202.194 (talk • contribs)

The text does not equate them, it says they are similar. They both have a strong aniseed flavor, hence the similarity. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:49, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

Which region does this belong in?

Somebody just changed this article from being part of Europe to being part of Cyrus.

Northern Cyprus is not part of the Republic of Cyprus from a de-facto standpoint, therefore this is wrong.

However I also don't think it belongs under Europe since Turkey is categorised under the Middle East, and they are (for the sake of argument) the primary sponsor of this state.

Any idea how this should be categorised? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's wrong to categorize Northern Cyprus as part of Cyprus. The way to do it would be to treat both the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus as part of the island of Cyprus. I don't think treating Northern Cyprus as part of Turkey is the way to go, because the Turkish occupation hasn't been accompanied by annexation; Northern Cyprus is still on Cyprus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Definitely agree, and didn't mean to suggest it was effectively part of Turkey. It is just that while the Cyprus article refers to all parts of the island being Cyprus, the actual content only seems to cover the Republic of Cyprus part. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's true. So it might be best to have a new article that very briefly covers the entire island of Cyprus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:20, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

We actually have somewhat of a model in how we treat Korea, but I realize the difference is that pretty much the whole world recognizes the existence of North and South Korea, even if they have diplomatic relations with only one of them, whereas I think only Turkey recognizes the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, and nearly every other country considers it illegitimate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

That would work... would this involve creating a 'Cyprus Region' article much like Korea ? Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:31, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I think so. Although to see a counterpoint, there's Somalia, with the de facto independent Somaliland subordinated to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:28, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes a consistent approach would be very hard. China and Taiwan would actually have to come under China, with 'Republic of China' and 'Peoples Republic of China' being regions underneath it. I think we don't want to go in that direction.... Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:55, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

We don't. But Taiwan is a separate island, whereas Cyprus is one island. Not sure how much difference that makes. What do you think is the best solution? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:02, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

REINDENT - If we are looking at islands divided up between different countries, then there is actually good precedence, with the islands of Timor, Borneo and Hispaniola as all extra-hierarchical regions (as is Korea )

It would be good to apply this same model to Cyprus, although it would involve renaming the country of Cyprus to the Republic of Cyprus (currently a redirect to Cyprus). How would you feel about that? Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:18, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Support for a "Cyprus island" (or whatever it should be named) article. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:13, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

It's messy to rename Cyprus to Republic of Cyprus, because to almost the entire world except for Northern Cyprus and Turkey, the Republic of Cyprus is de jure synonymous with Cyprus, but I think it's the least-bad option. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

It does feel somewhat messy, although it is the least bad option for sure given that Northern Cyprus is a valid travel destination, international recognition or not. How should we proceed? Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:23, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I'd say, move the current Cyprus article to Cyprus (Republic of) or Cyprus (country) or something similar. That will also create a redirect from Cyprus and that's good, because if I'm not mistaken, most people associate the word "Cyprus" with the Greek part (with the white flag with the country in orange).

After this, create a Cyprus (island) extraregion article which comprises the whole island, similar to the ones you described above. It should be arranged under Europe.

And finally a "For the island, see Cyprus (island)" at the top of the Cyprus (country) article. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Keep the existing Republic of Cyprus article as "Cyprus" with the first sentence under the banner a disambiguation to the "Island of Cyprus" article which should be basically an historical explanation of the split together with the practical consequences for the traveller together with a clear map. "Island of Cyprus" becomes an extra-hierarchical region. 80.234.141.170 12:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I think ϒpsilon's solution, using Cyprus (country), is the best. I agree that the default assumption is that "Cyprus" is synonymous with the Republic of Cyprus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:00, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

So the existing Cyprus becomes Cyprus (country) and Cyprus becomes an extra-heiracrhical region article? Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

No. To clarify, I would take 80.234.141.170's solution but use Cyprus (country) as a redirect from Cyprus and then have a Cyprus (island) extra-hierarchical region. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, is this consensus sufficient to change? (I'll vote 'yes') Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I think so. If someone strenuously objects afterwards, we can always continue the discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:54, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Cyprus (island) now exists Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Remove districts

TRNC is small and the district layer looks redundant. For instance for Kyrenia District the content is a single POI, St Hilarion Castle, that sits better in Kyrenia city just 10 km away. So I propose migrating accordingly. I haven't figured the rest in detail but on a first look, Nicosia (north) and Famagusta (north) cities would cover most of the rest, maybe a Karpaz rural area page for the east peninsula and Guzelyurt for the west end. Grahamsands (talk) 21:10, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

• Agree. We only have 7 articles gor the whole country. There's no need to divide it. Ground Zero (talk) 21:41, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Yep, that sounds about right. I guess the district articles were initially created to complement their southern counterparts. Vidimian (talk) 02:00, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support +1 to removing the regions. They are simply redundant; however, I will request that the static map and the regions list are kept, but without the regions themselves (something like Canberra/Civic#Orientation). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

The existing text of the region articles should be commented out after redirecting to Northern Cyprus, do that they can be easily restored later if our coverage of the statelet expands to the point where we need regions. Ground Zero (talk) 12:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Indeed – but what I'm suggesting is that Northern Cyprus#Regions will still retain the {{regionlist}} template but with no links, so travellers can still get an understanding of the three administrative divisions. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 13:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you about keeping and de-linking the region structure in the country article. I was adding a different point, but I didn't make that clear. Ground Zero (talk) 16:48, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

DONE for Kyrenia District. Bellapais and St Hilarion are merged into Kyrenia town, and links straightened accordingly. I am making no other change to the TRNC page just now, as it will be several weeks before I can work on Famagusta and Nicosia, and I shouldn't pre-judge where the page boundaries will end up. However on the Turkish mainland the districts / provinces have little relevance to travellers and are mostly ignored by WV, so probably that will be the pattern here. Grahamsands (talk) 19:06, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

FAMAGUSTA has been updated, expanded to cover the coastal strip as far north as Iskele, and breadcrumbed direct to Northern Cyprus. This makes Famagusta District North part-redundant, but the Karpaz Peninsula content needs developing. We already have a page with that name, redirected. It could be revived or FD (N) renamed - the coverage would be the same, with the itsy-bitsy village of Kaplica merged in. However I guess this would mean sacrificing the page history of either Karpaz, Kaplica or FD (N) - is there a way round this? Grahamsands (talk) 12:30, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

There is an option for merging page histories (more explanation at MediaWiki) but I have no experience in it. Vidimian (talk) 16:04, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

It may not be worth the faff, and acceptable to pick one page history to preserve. FD (N) looks to have the most relevant, active to 2020. Karpaz is to 2015, Kaplica is to 2018 with one format edit in 2021. Therefore FD (N) looks like the one to keep. However Karpaz Peninsula is the target name. That’s a previous redirect so I expect a page-move from FD (N) won’t work - we have to delete Karpaz then rename FD (N). Does that seem reasonable? As I read it, something similar is involved with the merge procedure. Grahamsands (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

How about a previously unused (and simpler) name such as Karpaz? That way we don't risk losing any of the relevant page histories. The title of the page for the peninsula in the official tourism website of Northern Cyprus reads Karpaz, and while the Wikipedia entry for the peninsula is at w:Karpas Peninsula, it says "Karpaz" by itself is an alternative name. Additionally, there is no other geographic unit (a town, a district, etc) named Karpaz, so using that name without further clarification shouldn't confuse anyone. Vidimian (talk) 21:49, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I've therefore created KARPAZ but do not have admin permission to merge Karpaz Peninsula or Kaplica page histories. Grahamsands (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

You may not need to merge page histories since they aren't lost by deletion. If you ever reuse material from one of those pages, mentioning the source at the edit summary (such as "merged from Kaplıca - https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Kapl%C4%B1ca&action=history" or better yet by linking the diff where the reused material was first contributed such as Special:diff/4241478) or using Template:Mergecredit at the top of Talk:Karpaz should take care of copyright issues. Vidimian (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

That's an even better suggestion, thanks. Duh, why didn't I grasp the obvious, that clearing out content and re-directing pages will not lose their history. I'll get on with this in the next few days, as this is prime time of year to visit TRNC. Grahamsands (talk) 15:22, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Great. I can't wait to have some nice armchair travelling through your work, as always. Vidimian (talk) 16:02, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

DONE. As before, I'm leaving the overall TRNC page to wait till the rest (northwest and Nicosia) are sorted out.

You'd rather an armchair than an ottoman? Anyhow it beats hunting for a dolmuş to visit these dusty places, so Güle Güle. Grahamsands (talk) 20:01, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

:-) On what I am viewing the computer screen these days does indeed look more like an ottoman; I didn't know that was a description in English.

In the meantime, I hunted down most of the remaining links to Famagusta district (North). It seemed like a better use of my time than hunting for a dolmuş to the dusty Karpaz. Vidimian (talk) 14:26, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

NORTHWEST TRNC is the last remaining area to update, as Nicosia North is done. This has the fewest sights and amenities so a single page suffices, probably created by re-assigning Nicosia District North. Güzelyurt is the largest town but has retained its Greek name of Morphou (perhaps to avoid confusion with the nine mainland Güzelyurts) so I propose calling it that, and re-directing the hollow Angolemi. Sound like a plan? Grahamsands (talk) 18:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

DONE. I renamed Nicosia District North as Güzelyurt (Northern Cyprus) as that matches the present admin district and road signage, and disambiguation from other Güzelyurts is necessary. The page content will be improved in the next few days. Grahamsands (talk) 15:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Done - all of TRNC is now high grade usable. Grahamsands (talk) 19:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)