Talk:Union County (New Jersey)

Does this article need moving to Union County (New Jersey)?

Yes. For any county in the US, the proper (and most common) name is "Whatever County", with a capital "C". And since there are (as I trust you've discovered) oodles of "Union County"s in the Union, and none of them are particularly famous, that means disambiguating all of them. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:09, 16 July 2006 (EDT)

Proposed merger

Union County appears to be a collection of mostly small municipalities, meaning that we have a lot of articles that provide very little information. If would be more useful to group these tidbits of information into larger aarticles, so that a traveller would be able to find the information we have on the region in a few articles, instead of spread across a bunch of them. The larger communities would remain as separate articles. Here is my proposal:

Separate articles:

• 1 Elizabeth
• 2 Linden

Include Rahway and Winfield in Clark article:

• 3 Clark
• 4 Rahway
• 5 Winfield

Merge into Western Union County:

• 6 Berkeley Heights
• 7 Fanwood
• 8 New Providence
• 9 Plainfield
• 10 Scotch Plains

Merge into Northern Union County:

• 11 Hillside
• 12 Springfield
• 13 Summit
• 14 Union (township)

Merge into Central Union County:

• 15 Cranford
• 16 Garwood
• 17 Kenilworth
• 18 Mountainside
• 19 Roselle
• 20 Roselle Park
• 21 Westfield

Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 02:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to propose these merged regions. I'd like to observe that there are only 13 blue-linked cities in Union County (New Jersey), so our first step could and probably should be to delete red links from Union County (New Jersey)#Cities. I have only limited familiarity with some of these communities, but take my 2 cents for what they're worth: Fanwood was separated from what's now Scotch Plains in 1895 but is very small in area and has the train station that also serves Scotch Plains, plus the article about Fanwood doesn't have much content, while the Scotch Plains article is fairly substantial. I could see merging and redirecting Fanwood to Scotch Plains.

I'm a little doubtful about some more extensive proposed merges. Union Township probably has 60,000 residents by now; Summit, over 20,000, and the two towns have very different characters (Summit is much richer and whiter). Hillside is a much smaller town, but I'm not that clear on where it might be best merged.

I think we really could use some local knowledge here. My girlfriend grew up partly in Scotch Plains. She's very busy lately, but I may ask for her opinion this weekend. Meanwhile, anyone who knows these places well should express an opinion, but I would not suggest quick action, except on deleting red links and merging Fanwood and Scotch Plains. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:19, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I would support this, but I'm quite inclined to trust Ikan Kekek's local knowledge. Pinging @Nelson Ricardo 2500: and @JTZegers: if interested. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:30, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I watch Category:Articles to be merged and noticed all the additions. I thought about commenting, but since I have little familiarity with or interest in this region, I don't have very strong opinion here. But since I've been summoned, I'll say that I oppose the merger on the whole. Perhaps if there were separate discussions, I might have tried forming an opinion in each, but taken as a package, I cannot accept the wholesale merger of all these communities. I say let the articles sit. They might grow, but if they don't, no harm done. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

First off, since I was summoned here for my so-called “local expertise”, let me just say that I meant New York and Connecticut; even though I know New Jersey well too despite not having a house there.

First of all, I strongly oppose moving Rahway and Winfield into the Clark, simply because Rahway totally deserves its own article. Second of all, I’m also inclined to oppose moving the places to western, northern, etc. and consider that unnecessary to both editors on Wikivoyage and visitors alike. And third of all, I am willing to admit that these red links should be removed, and therefore, I support the creation of those articles, including the separate Elizabeth and Rahway articles. To put it simply, someone should just make the darn articles, even if that person is me!

In summary, as a package I find no reason to allow this merger to occur (just like Nelson), for the reasons outlined above.JTZegers (talk) 03:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Revised proposals

A lot of these articles appear to have been created with the idea that every municipality in the county should have an article, regardless of whether it meets Wikivoyage:What is an article? or not. Many of these places do not have any points of interest. So what I was looking to do was to reorganize the county. Although I think it is useful to have the discussion all on one page, I note the objections to putting all of the reorganization in one proposal, and will break it up into separate proposals.

I don't think that all of these pages have the potential to develop into useful articles for travelers. Certainly many of them haven't over the last 15 years. Even if a suburban community has a large population, it won't warrant an article if it is mostly housing, interspersed with the occasional Walmart, Appleby's and McDonald's. It may be more useful to put what little information we have on it into a combined article.

I have added notes above to indicate where the municipal websites have no tourism information, which I think is a good indication that an an article is unlikely to be developed into an article that is useful for travelers. Ground Zero (talk) 12:12, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Keep as separate articles

• 22 Elizabeth
• 23 Linden
• 24 Clark
• 25 Rahway -- JTZegers to create separate article
• 26 Summit -- keep as separate article per Ikan Kekek's comment
• 27 Union (township) -- keep as separate article per Ikan Kekek's comment

Delete dead links

• 28 Winfield -- delete
• 29 Berkeley Heights -- delete
• 30 Hillside -- this is a link to our article on Hillside, Illinois, so it has been deleted
• 31 Springfield -- delete

Scotch Plains area

It might make sense to combine a couple of neighboring communities into the Scotch Plains article. Ground Zero (talk) 12:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

• 32 Scotch Plains -- keep as separate article
• 33 Fanwood -- no tourism information on municipal website, merge and redirect into Scotch Plains, per Ikan Kekek
• 34 Plainfield -- only restaurant and shopping info on municipal website. Would it make sense to redirect and merge into Scotch Plains?

Done Ground Zero (talk) 17:19, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

New Providence

• 35 New Providence -- no tourism information on municipal website; it looks like there is little of interest here -- would it make sense to merge and redirect into Summit, which is next door? Doing so would give visitors to Summit a second hotel listing to consider. Ground Zero (talk) 12:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Done Ground Zero (talk) 21:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Central Union County

This part of the county is really where we find a bunch of communities with little to see or do, and it looks to me like it would make sense to merge them into a single article to cover the area. Ground Zero (talk) 12:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

• 36 Cranford -- only shopping and restaurant information on municipal website
• 37 Garwood
• 38 Kenilworth -- no tourism information on municipal website
• 39 Mountainside
• 40 Roselle
• 41 Roselle Park
• 42 Westfield

Done. Ground Zero (talk) 23:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

• I support GZ's proposal here, and this looks a lot more convincing than the other. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I think this is a better idea. JTZegers (talk) 12:19, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Update: I have already started on the Rahway article, but if anyone wants to plunge forward, go ahead.--JTZegers (talk) 15:34, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support per GZ. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)