Talk:Vava'u

Comments

Is this article about Neiafu or Vava'u? While it is a region article about an island group, not just a single island, almost all the sleep listings are in and around Neiafu. The articles could be merged or the listings put in the appropriate articles. Perhaps with there being an island group article, an island article then Neiafu, if there is enough distinguishing content. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:20, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Having put a lot of work into Vava'u in the past two days you can imagine that I am not well pleased to see what you have done to the page. Vava'u is a group of islands, of which Neiafu is the capital. I believe that Neiafu should be merged into Vava'u, not the other way round. For such a small area it doesn't make sense to have two separate articles. Several of the hotels listed are on islands and are not in Neiafu. All the things to do, which I was going to list but am now thinking twice about, are out in the bay, not in Neiafu. (WT-en) Shep 07:34, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Good work on this article Shep. Huttite: does it really need further regionalising? Is there enough material to make a bunch of valid articles of hanging off a two tier subregion of Tonga? I really have no idea as I have zero knowledge of the Tongan island groups. I do think though that sometimes we create sub regional structures when they are not necessary and this has the effect of diluting content and creating more and more of those unloved sub-region articles. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 07:54, 9 December 2009 (EST)

In my opinion the Neiafu and other towns ahould each have their own separate article to contain all the sleep listings. We don't have sleep listings for regions, which the Vava'u article purports to be. While you might be writing in the Vava'u article, everything in the article seems to be about one town, Neiafu. I think that there is enough content to make 2 articles, in the end, but most of the Vava'u content should be merged into the Neiafu. Which is why I tagged this article for the merger, and not Neiafu. The article about Neiafu serves a different purpose to a regional article about the Vava'u island group - which should list all the inhabitable islands and the major towns in the group under region and city sections, not the Get out section, where these seem to be at the moment. I don't have a problem with the content, I just question if it is being put together in the right place in the right article.

My basic concern is that when I read the Vava'u article, I feel I should be reading that information in the Neiafu article, and Vava'u doesn't tell me about much else in the Vava'u island goup than Neiafu.

Please read Project:Geographical hierarchy, Project:Article templates and compare the Project:Region article template with theProject:Small city article template and notice that regions do not have sleep sections but "cities" (i.e. towns, villages) do, then think how to plunge forward. Discuss your solution here if you wish. - (WT-en) Huttite 08:37, 9 December 2009 (EST)

I think we need some common sense here. The population of the whole of Tonga is about 110,000. It is absolutely tiny. Regional articles just to keep things tidy and to obey rules about where sleep listings should go is in my opinion exactly what Wikivoyage should not do. And this is dealt with in Project:Geographical hierarchy, to quote: "Levels in the hierarchy can be skipped if they don't make sense. For example, the country of Andorra is only a few square miles in size; it would be laughable to write articles about its different regions." --(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:23, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Naturally I agree with the immediate above. I do get the feeling that sometimes Wikivoyage gets hung up with form rather than content, viz the discussions about my pages on lakes in Lazio, Italy. Note that I have followed the Vava'u approach in Ha'apai. The main town there is absolutely tiny and it would not make sense to have a separate article. I lived in Tonga for a couple of years, a long time ago. But one thing I can remember is that no one on Tongatapu would ever say "we are going to Neiafu". It was always "we are going to Vava'u".(WT-en) Shep 11:14, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Remaining tasks

This article was nominated for an Off the Beaten Path feature. Its nomination will probably be slushed soon, unless a map and some content in the "Connect" section are added. So your mission, if you choose to perform it... Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Map created and added. Let me know of changed required. --Saqib (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I just noticed this one and it'd be really cool to have a (our first ever!) DotM/OtBP from the Pacific Islands. I'll try to google some information about telecommunications in Tonga. Meanwhile, Saqib, otherwise the map is good but there are two things about it; places (in this case villages) are usually marked with black dots and as this article is about a tropical island I would prefer some happier color (light green?). ϒpsilon (talk) 16:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Damn! the source file of the map is missing. I thought it was saved when I close the application in hurry but I just found it was not. --Saqib (talk) 16:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Inkscape and XQuartz... ϒpsilon (talk)

Now I've put some stuff in the Connect section. It's all from third party sites of course... Today I've learned that in Tonga there aren't really personal Internet connections but just WiFi hotspots. And the one firm operating many of those on Vava'u is allegedly for sale (facepalm). ϒpsilon (talk) 19:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry this is off-topic. While you expressed either disappointment, shock, or surprise in your comment above, a (face palm) is actually a positive gesture in some parts of India and Pakistan to show respect and used as a greeting so I decided to start a travel topic which would be very useful to travellers. --Saqib (talk) 20:24, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Tongan: "Nearest Internet: one hour away by plane or something and even there it's expensive and slow" Tourist: Hello! Nice to meet you! :). Yes, Gestures can be a really useful travel topic. BTW "thumbs up" is rude in Gambia and perhaps somewhere else too (was it somewhere in the Middle East?). ϒpsilon (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I guess only in Iran and Afghanistan, thumbs-up is considered offensive to some extent but in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE, it is not considered offensive. I don't know about rest of the Muslim world. --Saqib (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2014 (UTC)