Talk:Downtown Shanghai

Discussion leading to creation of this article

Talk:Shanghai#Oh_what_a_mess.21 Pashley (talk) 16:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion there included a suggestion that Pudong, or at least Lujiazui, should be included as part of downtown. I see why people would think that, but did not do it; to me it seems the Puxi/Pudong distinction should be retained in our article structure since more-or-less everyone in Shanghai uses it often.

It was also suggested that on the Puxi side, the districts should be just the really central ones — Huangpu (& old city), jing'an & the French Concession — leaving out Changning, Putuo, Zhabei & Yangpu. I did not do that, but it may be worth discussing; personally, I would say keep them. The only one I would not mind losing is Yangpu, & removing Yangpu does not look worth the trouble since it would require changing two maps. Pashley (talk) 16:25, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

I used a somewhat ad hoc (kluge?) solution for the problem of what districts to include, mentioning the really central ones prominently in the introduction then giving the longer list under Districts. Any comment on that? Has anyone got a better solution? Pashley (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

There is extensive ongoing discussion at Talk:Shanghai of what to do with the district structure. One part directly relevant to this article is Talk:Shanghai#Reduce_districts_in_Downtown_Shanghai?. Pashley (talk) 04:09, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Guide? Dotm?

I just promoted this from Outline to Usable, but since I'm the main editor so far I'm reluctant to push it to Guide. Comment or contributions from others would be very welcome.

If it were Guide, it would be a natural for DotM. In previous discussion at Talk:Shanghai#Getting_to_guide.3F the main obstacle was that many Shanghai districts were still at Outline status, but I think all the ones under this article are Usable. Pashley (talk) 16:47, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

See also Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Downtown_Shanghai Pashley (talk) 14:26, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Yup, all districts linked in the Districts section are usable. The article looks OK, but I wouldn't put it on the Main Page quite yet. There are portions of the article that need to be converted to running text (most notably the latter half of the See section) and the listings moved to the subdistricts if practical. If an attraction is spread over several subdistricts it might be better to cover them here, though. The end of the article could use a few photos. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:41, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I've done some more editing, both here & in the district articles, but all could probably use more. I did not add pictures. Pashley (talk) 18:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Downtown Shanghai

Swept in from the pub

I recently created this in response to discussion at Talk:Shanghai#Oh_what_a_mess.21.

Could it become a destination of the month? I think yes, but probably not without some other contributions. Discussion at Talk:Downtown_Shanghai#Guide.3F_Dotm.3F. Pashley (talk) 16:55, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

It needs a banner & I don't do image stuff. Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 21:38, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

@Pashley: Do you like it? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:05, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes! Pashley (talk) 00:09, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

I think Downtown Shanghai would make a fine DotM and it's well on its way. However, the article is woefully underdeveloped past the "Buy" section. "Eat", "Drink", and "Sleep" should contain something more than just one line apiece directing readers to the district articles. The local specialties of Shanghainese cuisine are already covered in some detail at Shanghai#Eat, but surely we could give folks a general overview as to e.g. where the main dining/nightlife districts within downtown Shanghai are; whether a particular district specializes in a particular type of place; how much one can expect to pay for a hotel room or hostel bunk, and so forth? As well, listings in "See" and "Learn" need to be devolved into the district articles and replaced with generalized overview statements as above, and "Go next" could use expansion. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:17, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

I have now fixed some of the issues Andre points out, but maybe not enough. I do not agree that 'listings in "See" and "Learn" need to be devolved into the district articles' since for travellers the downtown area is in effect one big district. It makes sense to split hotels, bars & restaurants into the smaller districts since there are so many & people may need to find one in a convenient location. However, it does not make much sense to me for things that there are few of & that people usually travel to, like tourist sights or schools. Pashley (talk) 17:40, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

It sounds like you want an exception to usual Wikivoyage structure. Are there other articles where you'd apply a similar setup? On the face of it, I have trouble understanding the idea of listing everything except for sights in given articles, if that's indeed what you're proposing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:59, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

The stuff in question is all things I moved from the Shanghai article, where it certainly did not belong, into Downtown Shanghai, where I'd say it does. Some of it is also mentioned in district articles & Downtown_Shanghai#See is full of links to those, but I'd say listing things here at overview level is OK too.

I cannot think of another article where I'd want to do exactly this, but I think where to list attractions & whether they deserve mention in higher-level articles is often problematic. One example is Metro_Cebu#See which I wrote versus Cebu_(city)#See which used to have info on several attractions outside Cebu City, and Cebu_Province#See which I think is still a problem, Pashley (talk) 18:22, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

The normal procedure is to have the listings at the lowest level and then mention major sights at the next-higher level. On that basis, it would be normal to put the listings in the district articles and mention them without a listing in Downtown Shanghai. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:25, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I've now done that for most of See. To my surprise, quite a few listings did not exist in district articles, so I moved those and did some merging for the others. Pashley (talk) 22:41, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

As an aside, in nearly every case where a merge was done, both listings had some useful info but neither had all of it. This looks like a rather strong argument for having only one listing & linking to it elsewhere. Pashley (talk) 22:47, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I've run out of steam, at least for a few days. This would be a good time for other contributors to jump in, as some already have. Downtown_Shanghai#Parks still needs things moved, perhaps also Downtown_Shanghai#Get_in (though I think not) and Downtown_Shanghai#Learn. Everything needs review. Pashley (talk) 22:41, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Ongoing districts discussion for Downtown Shanghai and Shanghai

For an ongoing discussion of how Downtown Shanghai and Shanghai should be handled in WV, please see Talk:Shanghai. Xsobev (talk) 12:07, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

What next?

This article will likely change drastically quite soon; see discussion at Talk:Shanghai#Decision_on_Downtown_Shanghai. I have therefore made a copy of its current state at Downtown Shanghai/Preserved. Pashley (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)