Le Grand Bleu

Hello, Le Grand Bleu! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. JuliasTravels (talk) 21:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Doha driving

I lived in Doha for 2.5 years, and my partner (who spent 2+ hours every day on the road) made a point to avoid direct eye contact with local drivers, especially as it can be interpreted to be very confrontational. A colleague of his was pushed off the road by a non-uniformed high-ranking army officer for merely scowling at him; he was later afraid that he would be detained at the airport when leaving for holiday.

I know of one expat who nearly went to jail simply for flashing her headlights behind a slow-driving local – there are countless similar stories, including several well-publicized cases of road rage involving physical assault. I do believe it is in the best interest of travelers to point out what behaviors they should avoid on the road in order to minimize any potential conflict with other drivers. —The preceding comment was added by StellarD (talk • contribs)

You must be British, the way you talk. You think you're the only person who lived in the Middle East or has friends there? I don't know why your friend of a friend was afraid to be detained at the airport (any chance Mr.Bond was trying to impress a lady with some scary story?), but I know one thing - even if there were cases of road rage, even if they were well-publicized, you CANNOT go to jail in Qatar for making eye-contact with other drivers. Period. YES, driving in Doha, as in any growing Middle East megapolis, is dangerous. YES, they can't bloody drive and they think whoever's got the biggest car has the right of way (same as in India, Pakistan, Vietnam, etc, etc, etc). I even believe a story of a military officer pushing a Brit off the road for scowling at him. What I don't really understand is how he figured out it was a "high-ranked military officer" if he was "non-uniformed"? Yet another chapter of Mr.Bond's adventures at the scary Middle East? 1001 nights? (Next time, tell him to also add he was shot by a laser gun and had to crawl to the border through the desert because he couldn't fly out of DOH... they were onto him and wanted to kill him!) Anyway, your scaremonging is annoying at best. Stop the edit war and open a discussion on the talk page if you want to discuss "cultures". Le Grand Bleu (talk) 17:12, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I am not British but I don't see why that should make any difference – are you prejudiced against the British? Are you trying to white-wash reality? Do you live in Doha yourself? The fact is that Qatar statistically has one of the highest road fatality rates of anywhere in the world. You are more likely to be killed on the road in Qatar than you are to be robbed or murdered. Newcomers should be aware of the road hazards and the fact that there is a large population of migrant workers who drive very slowly (as they do in India or Pakistan or the Philippines) combined with a smaller population of high-strung Qataris who drive extremely aggressively, frequently resulting in a lethal combination. Failure to acknowledge this is nothing short of propaganda, and a disservice to readers.

–StellarD (talk) 01:49, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Are you prejudiced against Arabs and Asians? Are you a member of a white power or similar nazi organization? Are you trying to scare the people away from visiting Qatar because of racial hate you have against the people of that wonderful country? Do you understand the difference between bad driving and going to jail? Le Grand Bleu (talk) 11:10, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Le Grand Bleu, I'd like to welcome you to Wikivoyage, as you're fairly new here, but your tone with StellarD, a very respected regular here who's contributed lots of great content, is unacceptable. I have no expertise on Doha, but if you want to convince people that you are right, taking an unprejudiced tone and speaking without personal disrespect for someone who's contributed so much to this site would be likely to make your arguments more credible. I am on the road and may not be able to respond to any of your comments in a timely fashion, but I would request for you to lay out your point of view with facts, as you understand them, and no ad hominem or stereotypic attacks, on Talk:Doha, with a link to this discussion, and refrain from reverting StellarD's edits further until or unless you achieve a consensus to stand behind your proposed changes. Thanks a lot.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:06, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I didn't know there was a wolfpack. She (or he) may or may not be regular and I may or may not be a newbie. This is a Wikimedia project where the first rule is "Everyone is equal". I also don't remember inviting you to tell me more about editors of Wikivoyage. When I do, you're welcome to come and tell me. Until then, please try to ignore my page, thank you. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 10:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure "Everyone is equal" isn't the first rule of this nor any other Wikimedia project. Our basic rules can be found at Wikivoyage:Policies, and that's not on there. One of our more important rules is Wikivoyage:Keep Wikivoyage fun, which I recommend for perusal when you get a chance. Powers ^(talk) 17:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

As I see it, one of the jobs of an admin on a website like this one is to encourage good contributions and try to nip conflicts in the bud. When we see that someone is creating discord, not through differences about content, which are welcome, but through personal or stereotypical attacks, we tend to have a very dim view of that, and ignoring such situations would be a shirking of our responsibilities, especially when they're brought to our attention.

Everyone is not equal on this site. For example, spammers are often summarily and permanently blocked. I think everyone would hope that you (Le Grand Bleu) will prove yourself to be a valuable member of this community, but you have not yet done so. A cooperative attitude in which even strong arguments about content are made in respectful language will go a long way toward showing that you are a good-faith and positive member of this community, and it is definitely not too late for you to adopt such an attitude. Thanks, and I hope you enjoy contributing here, but I'll add that if you have more complaints in the vein of accusations of a "wolfpack," such that you pretend you're being victimized here when you're acting aggressive, they're quite likely to be ignored, at the very best. Thanks again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:35, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Le Grand Bleu, please be aware that whatever the merits of your arguments (and I have expressed support for your point on Talk:Doha), as others have repeatedly told you, incivility towards others continues to overwhelm any argument you might be trying to put forward. If you are looking for any sort of constructive outcome please stick to whatever point you are trying to make without insulting others. -- Ryan • (talk) • 18:22, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

I'll try my best. Thank you for your support! :-) Le Grand Bleu (talk) 18:27, 20 October 2014 (UTC)