MUNDIMAPPA

Hello MUNDIMAPPA! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:

• NPOV → be fair (not quite the same thing!)
• be bold → plunge forward
• Village pump → travellers' pub
• External links → We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.
• sandbox → graffiti wall
• stub tagging → Article status

It may also be very useful for you to check out Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Wikivoyage:Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing! Ibaman (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Herefordshire

Hi! Thank you for your efforts on Herefordshire. I would encourage you to have a look at the Wikivoyage:Region article template, which should give you a good idea of where to put things in a region article like Herefordshire. Wikivoyage has quite a rigid structure, and it can take a while to get used to this.

It might also be an idea to investigate similar articles - other English counties, for instance - to see what to aim for with Herefordshire.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. First port of call should be the talk page of the Herefordshire article, but of course you also have the Arrivals lounge and the Travellers' Pub, plus you're welcome to contact me directly whenever you like.

All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:02, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Nick. I got your email, though I'll reply on-wiki because it's easier. From what I've seen, while there have been some bits of your contributions removed, the vast majority is still in the article, and mostly where you put it. As you know, this is a wiki, and part of working on wikis is an acceptance that your work will get modified, reworded or even deleted, at any time.

For my part, I have mostly been focussing on moving content from places they didn't fit to places they do (for instance, there was information about Lord Nelson and different tourist attractions in 'Get around', and a random quote about architecture in the 'Cities, towns and villages' list).

It was edits like that which prompted me to write the above message and invite you to click on the links and gain some more understanding of Wikivoyage's standards, including some quirks which may not be obvious at first glance. To those, I would add WV: Goals and non-goals and, our guiding principle WV:The traveller comes first, which ought to explain why a few of the details you added, such as those mentioned by user: Ikan Kekek below, may not be relevant to a travel guide. My advice remains to read through those, and once you've done so, to ask questions about anything that's unclear.

Ultimately, the most important thing is that you are doing great work on Herefordshire, showing attention to a long-neglected article. This is massively appreciated. I do hope you also appreciate the feedback you're getting as well and try to learn from it. We're all doing this in our spare time, for free, and are all working towards the same goals. All the best, James (ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:40, 2 October 2020 (UTC))

Travel-relevance

Hello, and thank you for all your much-appreciated efforts to improve the article about the region you live in, but please keep in mind that the goal of this site is to serve the traveller, not to be an encyclopedia like Wikipedia. Do you think travellers care who from which party is the local MP? Do you think they care about a list of famous people who were born in the area, unless their houses can be visited (in which case, they should be listed in the relevant city guide, not the region article)?

And while I'm at it, please keep the guidelines in Wikivoyage:Region article template in mind, and add details that are specifically relevant to localities to the articles for those cities.

I hope this all makes sense. By all means let me know if there's anything that could be further clarified.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Well I certainly think you could have worded your 'criticism' a little more politely! ____ —The preceding comment was added by MUNDIMAPPA (talk • contribs)

Sorry my pointed questions turned you off, but I did express sincere appreciation to you to begin with and offered to discuss any of these things with you at the end, so it was hardly an unmitigated attack or something; I just want you to think about these things.

All of us long-time users recognize that there's a learning curve that new users deal with in absorbing Wikivoyage style, policies and guidelines. There was when we were new users, too. None of us expect you to know all of these things right away. But what we do hope is that you will learn from user talk posts, links we give you, edit summaries and other efforts to communicate with you and engage in dialogue with us on anything that you're unsure of. Make sense? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:27, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

(Also, a minor note: It's the practice on Wikis to sign talk pages by typing 4 tildes [~] in a row at the end of each post.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hi again. You said you were familiar with wikis, so you'll know about edit summaries. It will be really helpful for everyone if you make a habit of summarising the changes you're making to articles, particularly when you're undoing the work of others. If this request is not as clear as I think it is, please ask me to clarify. Cheers, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:54, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

yeah, pretty pretty please with sugar and cherries on top, lest you wanna accuse us of incivility and bad manners again. Ibaman (talk) 18:32, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

In response to your email, which I appreciate you sending: everyone else makes use of the edit summary button, which should adequately explain their edits. If you have an issue with those edits, or you don't understand where the edit summaries are (both of which are absolutely fine), please raise it on-wiki, where we might be able to do something about it. Telling me by email about edits other people made won't solve the problem for you.

For your information, minor edits are edits that don't change the substance of an article:

It's up to you to determine what makes your changes "minor" -- usually, spelling corrections, grammar, or formatting changes are "minor", and changes to the real information on a page are not.

-WV: How to edit a page

While there is always some wiggle room, the reason I'm asking you to use edit summaries is I have found you're making edits that I don't consider to be minor, and that I don't always understand the rationale for. Google and Apple haven't devised a way for us read each other's minds through the internet yet, so on a collaborative project like Wikivoyage, it's important to communicate as much as possible.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Dore Abbey Court

An image of this house has been mistakenly added (on the Herefordshire Wikivoyage page) alongside a text refence to the 12th century Cistercian Dore Abbey. Could some kind soul remove it please and I will attempt to obtain a copyright-free image of the right building. MUNDIMAPPA (talk) 08:30, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

w:Abbey Dore Court is in Herefordshire, so it's entirely proper for a thumbnail of it to be in the article. It's not at all necessary for thumbnails to be in the exact section where they're discussed in an article (see Wikivoyage:Image policy, particularly Wikivoyage:Image policy#Minimal use of images, for some pointers on how images are meant to be used in articles on this site), and furthermore, on different equipment and browsers, the images will appear in different places on the page, anyway. What's most important is to identify the thumbnail with a clear caption, and if you're concerned that people will mistakenly believe that this building is part of the abbey proper, would it be sufficient to use the language in the Wikipedia article I've linked, which simply states that the abbey is nearby? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Another point is that you can always remove anything. Just leave an edit summary, specifying why you did so. If someone else disagrees, they can always revert your edit and state why. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:30, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Noted, but singularly unimpressed with your explanation ("...it's entirely proper...). 88.106.222.96 10:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a question, or do you just like to gratuitously insult people who volunteer their time to provide helpful information? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

very well, no soup for you, deal with the pic youself. Dude, you surely added valuable content to Herefordshire and this is much appreciated, but this obnoxious attitude is not. This is a tight-knitted community built on positive vibrations. If you don't like Wikivoyage, don't edit here, period. Ibaman (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Contributions

Hello, in answer to your question, you can contribute to any article you like. Very few Wikivoyagers only edit articles about places they live in; remember, this is Wikivoyage, not Wiki locals only! If you feel like you've got something to contribute on Worcestershire, then go ahead. You could also / alternatively work on expanding some of the town articles under Herefordshire, or you could pick a favourite holiday destination you've visited in the past and edit the page for that. My advice would be to check out the range of articles we have at Destinations, Itineraries, and Travel topics; you might find something you didn't realise you were interested in.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:39, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Herefordshire

Many thanks to the person who added the picture of Hereford Station. Not only is it beautifully scaled (exactly matching the rail text alongside) but it now happens to be a priceless historical record, since that view no longer exists! In its wisdom, the council has permitted an ugly five-storey student apartment block to be built slap bang in front of the poor old Victorian railway station! ----

• You're welcome, and please keep the relevant information coming. Ibaman (talk) 12:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)