Mayon V

Hi, Mayon V.

Which dialects of Bikol are not mutually intelligible, and how important is it to be able to speak the local dialect? Please take part in the discussion at Talk:Bikol phrasebook#Which is this?. I should add, there is suspicion in some quarters that you may be Josh Rayver. Participating more in discussions would dispel that.

Thanks, and all the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:34, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Deletions

Hi. I want to alert you that I made these deletions in the Bikol phrasebook, in case you wanted to move them to Wiktionary.

Remember, the idea of the phrasebook is that someone visiting for a couple of weeks could benefit from it. I don't think we even have a single word for "skin dirt" in English, so that kind of word is not of practical use to short-term visitors to Bicol. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:49, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

I understand. Thanks for helping me. Mayon V (talk) 02:05, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Just a couple of weeks. Mayon V (talk) 07:11, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's the idea we've embraced here. The phrasebooks aren't meant to help expats attain fluency, just help transient travelers get by. I think we provide a bit more than people would need for 2 weeks, though, maybe enough for an entire (temperate zone) summer. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:22, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm busy asking for translations in other Philippine languages. Can you add your languages on "Hitchhiking phrasebook"? Mayon V (talk) 09:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm a little doubtful on that. I never remember having to hitchhike in Malaysia, and the one time I hitchhiked in Italy, I was picked up by a nice German family who spoke much more English than Italian. I don't recall any other times I hitchhiked outside of the U.S., and it's been a very long time since I hitchhiked in the U.S., either. I guess I could take a look, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:10, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I just looked. I have no idea what a "motorway service area" is in Malay. None existed in the 1970s when I lived in Malaysia, and I've never had occasion to learn the term. I also don't know what the term for that is in Italian, though if I translated directly, I'd get "zona di servizi autostradale" or something like that. Someone else is going to have to be the one to input this information. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:30, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Can you make two pages of phrasebooks in two other languages of the Philippines? Pangasinan phrasebook & Kapampangan phrasebook Mayon V (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Me? Or do you mean can you? If you know those languages, start the phrasebooks with Wikivoyage:Quick phrasebook article template. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:09, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I mean by copying that page. Don't edit that page. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:09, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm trying to improve the Bikol phrasebook. Mayon V (talk) 03:21, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, of course I see that. However, you also edited Wikivoyage:Quick phrasebook article template twice. Don't do that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:05, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I just tried supplying the necessary words like name of language. Mayon V (talk) 04:07, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

You don't seem to understand what that page is. It's a page with the phrasebook article template on it. That's a template for all phrasebooks. You may copy it to start a new phrasebook. You may not put content related to specific languages on that page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC, say,

I thought if I edit it I can make a separate page for another language phrasebook. Mayon V (talk) 05:14, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

No, if you edit a page, you edit that page. It seems like you still don't understand how to start a new phrasebook. I'll give you a better method: Type, for example, Pangasinan phrasebook into a search window on this site. That gets you to this result:

Create the page "Pangasinan phrasebook" on this wiki! See also the page found with your search.

Click the red link for "Pangasinan phrasebook". That gets you to this page. Then click "Phrasebook", and the template will appear. Then start inputting content! Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:26, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I dont know how to start another page for language phrasebook Mayon V (talk) 05:37, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I just told you how. Which part wasn't clear? Search for "[Name of language] phrasebook", such as the example I gave, and then follow the steps I gave you. Is there a way I can make it clearer? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Phrasebooks for Pangasinan and Kapampangan languages don't exist yet Mayon V (talk) 06:00, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I have requested a phrasebook for those languages. Mayon V (talk) 06:14, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Just start the phrasebooks. No-one else will. I'm still unclear on which part of my instructions you didn't understand, but I'll try numbering the instructions.

1. Use the "Search Wikivoyage" box at the upper right of any Wikivoyage page to search for the name of the phrasebook you want to start (input the name of the phrasebook and then click the magnifying glass icon at the extreme right of that box).

2. See the red link of that phrasebook in your search results (starting with "Create the page" - the red link of the phrasebook will be immediately to the right of that phrase).

3. Click on that red link

4. Click "phrasebook" in about the middle of the menu immediately below the following sentence: "To start, please click on one of the following links to pre-fill this article with the standard sections:".

5. Start inputting information.

OK? Please start all the phrasebooks you want to start. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Ok I'll try. Mayon V (talk) 07:54, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I added 'pseudo phonetics' on the Bikol phrasebook. Tell me wether they are enough. Mayon V (talk) 06:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't have time to look now, but if you added them for every word and phrase, it's enough. Otherwise, keep going. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Listifying

Mayon V, how about listifying the entries in Festivals and events in the Philippines? It'll make the article a lot easier to read. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't know how. Every places in the Philippines has festivals of its own. Mayon V (talk) 01:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

What can I do? Tell me please. Mayon V (talk) 01:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I just did the editing. The months are already in there. Mayon V (talk) 01:12, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm suggesting for you to use a Wikivoyage listing template. Click the bicycle icon second to the right of "Listings" above your edit screen when you're editing that article, then input information as relevant into the template. Do that for each listing. You've used listing templates before, I think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

See this edit. Also, please note that when I give you advice on what to do, I provide clickable links for you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:21, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Threads in Talk:Bikol phrasebook

Hi, Mayon V. I invite you to participate in two threads I started: Talk:Bikol phrasebook#Macrolanguage and Talk:Bikol phrasebook#Consequential diagraphs. Thanks a lot, and enjoy your day.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Why do you ignore threads on the talk page of the Bicol phrasebook? Readers have no idea why a digraph is "consequential". Are some digraphs inconsequential? I frankly have no idea, and I don't even like the technical word "digraph", but don't address this here; comment on that talk page. The whole point of Wikis is to work collaboratively, not to ignore talk pages and then change someone else's work without comment. I'll change it back at my earliest opportunity. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I see you're editing again. Please reply to threads on this page and the ones I linked for you above, or we may have to block this account permanently as uncooperative. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:48, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Unitelligebilty of Bicol dialects

Although Bicol Naga, Bicol Legazpi, and Partido dialect can somehow be understood by one another's speakers, let us just be inclusive in representing the language of the Bicolanos.

For me, saying "Bicol phrasebook" is enough. My logic is if there is a territory called "Bicol Region", there should also have a language called "Bicol". A group of people speaking "Bikol" as first language is called "Bicolano". Mayon V (talk) 00:00, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Rinconada Bikol should have a separate phrasebook Mayon V (talk) 00:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Renaming the phrasebook into "Central Bikol phrasebook" is incorrect because we Bicolanos call our language simply as "Bikol". Mayon V (talk) 00:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Cover photo

How can I put a photo on this phrasebook? Cagsawa Ruins is the best photo to best represent Bikol Region.

Don't start articles you can't work on

I'm sure you don't know most of the languages of the phrasebooks you just started. It sucks to have empty phrasebooks. You're really going to make us nominate the lot of empty phrasebooks for deletion? Really unhelpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I've blocked you for one day to prevent you from creating more blank phrasebooks. You've been very uncolleagial and uncooperative lately, ignoring all the threads on Talk:Bikol phrasebook that you've been asked to read and participate in, edit warring and now this. Please do better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Blocked for ignoring talk pages

OK, let's try this again: Whether as Mayon V or as Josh Rayver, what we're requiring of you is to read and reply to talk page threads on this page and Talk:Bikol phrasebook. You can't just work on your own and ignore others. Therefore, your editing privileges except on this page have been blocked for 3 days. You can shorten the duration of the block by reading and replying to relevant threads on this page, and I strongly suggest you do so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

You've now been blocked for 2 weeks for the same reason. Do you want us to block you indefinitely? That's been discussed. You'd better post a response on this talk page if you want to avoid that happening again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:56, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm just doing some improvement in my mother tongue phrasebook. Bikol is my mother tongue. I'm not vandalizing. So please I'm sensere. Unblock me again. Mayon V (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Mayon V (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I see vandals on the "vowels". I am working on it. Mayon V (talk) 01:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm not accusing you of vandalism. I'm accusing you of ignoring threads at Talk:Bikol phrasebook and relevant threads on this page. Why, for example, did you start dozens of phrasebooks on languages you don't know, forcing us to spend time discussing them and delete them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Please let me clear of those unwanted vandals on the "vowels" section of Bikol phrasebook. Mayon V (talk) 09:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Dozens . . . I'm sorry. I just wanted to help those people who requested to have a phrasebook of their mother tongues. Maybe they did not know how to start a phrasebook page. Mayon V (talk) 09:17, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Do you understand why that was unhelpful? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

That won't happen again. I'm so sorry, admin. Mayon V (talk) 23:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

The point isn't to extract an apology from you but for you to understand why it wasn't a good idea. (Also, you can really address me by my username.) I'll lift your block, but please make sure to read your user talk page and the talk pages of articles you contribute to and comment on anything that has to do with your work. I hope we can trust you to do that, as we would really rather not permaban this account. And you understand, I hope, that you could have kept using your Josh Rayver account if you had only replied to the messages on your user talk page and participated in discussions at Talk:Bikol phrasebook instead of ignoring them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:16, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Terimah kasih.

Please clear the unwanted vandals on rg Mayon V (talk) 10:07, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Please clear the unwanted vandals on the vowel section. Mayon V (talk) 10:08, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm very busy today and tomorrow. If what you want to edit is obvious, just do it. If it isn't, discuss it on the phrasebook's talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:19, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Terima kasih. Mayon V (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

I added one more paragraph to the "introduction" in order for the phrasebook not to be boring if read. Mayon V (talk) 22:43, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Kindly check Wikivoyage:Babel because I added my native language Bikol and one more Philippine language Ilocano. Mayon V (talk) 11:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Discuss templates on talk pages for those templates. Don't depend only on me to check things. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:07, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

OK sir. Mayon V (talk) 23:33, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Rinconada

Hi Mayon V. Do you speak Rinconada? If so, I hope you plan to expand the Rinconada phrasebook beyond what's currently there. If you don't speak the language, please let me know. I expect a reply from you either way, please. Many thanks, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:32, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. I will, sir. Thanks. Mayon V (talk) 09:38, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for replying, but you didn't really answer my question. Do you speak the language? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:40, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Best to pay attention to people's questions. How well do you know Rinconada? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. I do. Mayon V (talk) 11:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I do speak Rinconada. Mayon V (talk) 11:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Internet is so slow here in the Philippines. I can't translate them all that fast. Mayon V (talk) 11:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for answering :-) Carry on.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Overly technical language

Hi, Mayon V, and thanks for your replies above.

I see you've gone back to putting overly technical language into phrasebooks that will make non-linguists' eyes glaze over, such as this:

Accent marks

Diacritics (kul-it)

Rinconada retains and uses diacritics (kul-it) to highlight the meaning of the words and to differentiate words with different meanings but the same spelling. Diacritics for this language are limited to the macron and circumflex which is unlike other languages. However, due to technical difficulties and a scarcity of resources, diacritics are sometimes not available. Thus, two Rinconada alphabets were created to meet the needs of the speakers: the NATIVE and the SIMPLIFIED. Both can be used at the same time depending on the situation, purpose and availability of resources.

Glottal stop (rəgsad)

The Rinconada name for the letter which represents the glottal stop is "rəgsad". This can only be found in the native form of alphabet, and it is limited to final vowels or vowels at the end of a word. Rəgsad is represented by the circumflex ( ˆ ).

For examples of the glottal stop, consider the Rinconada words salâ (wrong) and turô (drop of water/fluid), often simply sala and turo in the simplified alphabet.[end quote]

I'm a speaker of Malay, so I understand about glottal stops - they're important and must be explained. But this isn't an explanation of what a glottal stop is. As for diacritics, are they used or not? If they are used, it would appear that they don't affect speech, and phrasebooks are not primers to teach people to read a language fluently. Also, please note that we do not expect the average reader of Wikivoyage to understand IPA, though you can use it along with pseudo-transliteration, but terms like "near-open central unrounded vowel", again, are not useful to the non-linguist reader and likely to make their eyes glaze over.

I feel like you still don't understand the difference between a phrasebook in a travel guide, meant for practical use on a short trip, and an encyclopedic linguistic treatise. But could you please try harder? And might you consider doing full-on liguistic treatises at wiktionary (if they'll host them there) and summarizing them as useful, practical travelers' phrasebooks here? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC)