PassedDown

Hello Thegayfrenchbullie123! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:

• NPOV → be fair (not quite the same thing!)
• be bold → plunge forward
• Village pump → travellers' pub
• External links → We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.
• sandbox → graffiti wall
• stub tagging → Article status

It may also be very useful for you to check out Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Wikivoyage:Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing!

Thanks a lot for adding content to Manhattan/Upper East Side! I grew up on the Upper West Side and live in the East Village, so I have less knowledge of the Upper East Side than you.

A couple of style remarks:

• Some of this prose seems a little purple, especially in the Asphalt Green listing. I know you're not here to tout for personal benefit, and I don't know whether you're a tourism professional or not, but the guidelines at Wikivoyage:Don't tout and Wikivoyage:Welcome, tourism professionals are relevant to every user, anyway, so check 'em out.

• I would think wikipapers (whatever it is - I'm not familiar with it) would be covered by the same guidelines as Wikivoyage:Links to Wikipedia, if we'd link it at all. In terms of coverage of subway service, we have New York City#By subway that can be linked.

If you have any questions or would like to have a discussion about these or any other points relating to the article, please start or respond to a relevant thread at Talk:Manhattan/Upper East Side. And once again, thanks!

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:29, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

This site's guidelines against touting

Hi, Thegayfrenchbullie123. As I said above, I greatly appreciate your being so active in adding content! But I'm also concerned about the tone of more than a bit of your edits. Take these edits:

For the athletic travelers, the Shannon Swimming & Leisure Centre is the ideal location, with very cheap activities including multiple gym courses, swimming lessons, and yoga, with facilities including a basketball hall, cardio gym, climbing wall, dance studio, playground, pool, sauna & steam room, strength & conditioning room, and even more

"Ideal" is a reg-flag word, because as it essentially means "best imaginable", it is used as advertising hype well over 95% of the time, and you've even called it "the ideal location", which means there couldn't possibly be an equally good one anywhere in the world!

"And more", in any of its permutations, is a useless expression because it typically doesn't indicate anything except a vague urge to promote by implication. Wikivoyage guidelines (see Wikivoyage:Words to avoid) are to mention anything worth mentioning and not use vague expressions like "and much more!"

Another passage:

You can play rugby, the famed sport of Ireland, at this peaceful getaway on the south coast of Shannon just next to the amazing coasts of the Shannon Estuary.

If you want to create a non-promotional listing, be merely descriptive, and leave off general remarks about a sport - those belong in the Ireland article. Here's a non-touty version of this description:

You can play rugby here on Shannon's south coast next to the Shannon Estuary.

In a more minor point, what would cozy curry at Hochak Asian Street Food taste like, by contrast with standard curry?

I really don't want to start reverting edits by you because some of the language is out of keeping with Wikivoyage:Don't tout and Wikivoyage:Words to avoid - both of which, please read! But I would ask you to please edit some of your language yourself, after you've read those pages. Because language that looks to an average reader like hype is likely to make them doubt the reliability of any of the descriptions on the page they're reading and on this site in general.

I'd like to end this post on a positive note, so I'd like to praise the listing you added for Gleeson Goldsmiths. It seems exemplary in its level of specificity in its "price" tab, and in that context, the language in the "content" tab seems quite fine to this reader.

I hope you take this message to heart.

Thanks in advance, and all the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:15, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

I'd like you to please look at Shannon:History and Talk:Shannon#Tone. Again: I greatly appreciate your adding so much content. However, site style is also to strive for elegant brevity in expression (i.e., longer due to a need to provide a greater amount of important content in a given section or listing, not to give space to hyperbole or what most travellers would be likely to see as trivia), present facts - not without some evaluations, but no promotional language and few superlatives - and let our readers draw their own conclusions.

If you are actually reading this page, I'd really suggest that you look at any of the articles linked at Star articles and Category:Guide articles. None of them is perfect, but in general, I think you'll see elegant prose, a strong focus on practical and easily readable travel-related content the reader can use and avoidance of encyclopedic facts and figures, hype, and repetitive use of superlatives and praise for the location.

Would you please reply on this page to show that you've read my attempts to communicate with you? I would like to work with you, not at cross purposes with you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:54, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Thegayfrenchbullie123 (Thegayfrenchbullie123) 07:57, 29 December 2019 (EST)

Uh, hi. Am I doing this right? I'm not sure. But thanks for all the feedback, I'll try to edit the history and other sections as soon as I can! I'm just a bit new here, so it's a bit odd to maintain this style, so I'll try in the future.

Sure, everyone understands that there's a learning curve for new users here. We were all new users once, and I certainly haven't forgotten that it took me time to learn different aspects of the site. I'm an admin and bureaucrat here now and still don't know absolutely everything there is to know (for example, I leave some of the technical aspects of the site to others).

Please keep adding content. Try to apply what you can of what you see on this page and on the links I've given you; your effort will be appreciated, and others can follow up and edit (or edit further) for style.

One small thing: You should sign the end of your post, not the beginning. :-)

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:31, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay! Thanks so much for all the feedback, it really helps. I'll try to edit a soon as I get the chance. Thegayfrenchbullie123 08:33, 29 December 2019 (EST)

Thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:37, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Manhattan/Upper East Side#Eat

Hi again. I hope you don't think I'm picking on you; I just want to give you courteous notice that I started this thread: Talk:Manhattan/Upper East Side#"Eat" section. Your thoughts would be most welcome.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:24, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Don't worry, it's good! Sorry this is late, I just have homework and all that other stuff. I'll be sure to check it out within the coming week.

Thegayfrenchbullie123 16:46, January 1, 2020 (EST)

It's quite alright. Happy New Year! Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:05, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year! Thegayfrenchbullie123 18:07, January 1, 2020 (EST)

Question (Not sure if I should put this here)

Hi, sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but how do you change the image banner at the top of a page? Whenever I go in to edit, it won't let me change the image at the top (this is in reference to another article). Why is this? How can I replace it? Sorry if I shouldn't be asking this here.

Thegayfrenchbullie123 10:29, January 2, 2020 (EST)

Read through Wikivoyage:Banner Expedition, starting at Wikivoyage:Banner Expedition#Image size (since I don't know how much you know about banner standards and how to create and upload banners), but the key point is that, if you want to substitute a new banner for an existing one, post a thumbnail of the existing banner and your proposed new one on the relevant article's talk page and wait to see whether people support your proposal or not. If you unilaterally change an existing pagebanner, your edit will be reverted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:36, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

The banner expedition talk page doesn't mention how to change from a default banner to a new, actual banner. Should I just change it or post it on the talk page?Thegayfrenchbullie123 20:02, January 2, 2020 (EST)

From a default banner (i.e., no picture)? Go ahead and replace it. Look again: It does so describe how to do it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:32, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! I wasn't sure if that was referring to replacing what the default banner looked like or replacing a page's banner itself. Thanks! Thegayfrenchbullie123 7:01, January 4, 2020 (EST)

Sure thing. If there's a banner picture, it was put there manually at some point. It's in cases when you'd like to replace one of those that you should make a proposal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Elšani#Get In

Hello, and sorry I'm asking so many questions! I was just wondering if I should include air and bus travel to Ohrid (like entire sections dedicated to the Ohrid airport), a city fairly close to Elšani itself, or not.

In the Elšani should have information how to get from and to Ohrid, but any information that is generally useful for Ohrid should go in that article. I have moved some of your contribution, but feel free to enhance a little more. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:43, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello

Hello TGFB. I see that you are in NYC. I was wondering if you would be interested in working on a project. A while ago, LGBT Stockholm was nominated for deletion because some people felt that we shouldn't have separate LGBT guides, and noted that it was the only such guide. I put in a lot of work to update and expand that guide, so it is no longer being considered for deletion. I also created LGBT Toronto. An LGBT New York City article would be a great addition to Wikivoyage. Is that something you would be interested in working on? Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 00:12, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Totally! That sounds like a great idea. I could likely start work on it in no more than a week and it would be amazing to see a project like that. Thank you for reaching out! Thegayfrenchbullie123 8:29 PM, March 8, 2020, EST

I'm looking forward to see it! I haven't been to NYC for ages, but I'll help out where I can. Ground Zero (talk) 00:42, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good! I'm just curious, how should I go about creating it? Is there a process I should follow or can I just straight up create it and start working on it? Thegayfrenchbullie123 9:36 PM, March 8, 2020, EST

For the Toronto article, I started by copying over LGBT content from our Toronto articles (and updating as I went), added in personal knowledge, and referred to LGBT travel sites for Toronto, like the gaybourhood business association. I think I may have got some history from the Wikipedia article on LGBT rights in Canada. I hope that helps. Ground Zero (talk) 02:02, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok sounds good! Thank you. Can I just create the page and start editing? Thegayfrenchbullie123 6:30 PM, March 9, 2020, EST

I've added some heading to LGBT New York City to get you started. Ground Zero (talk) 05:30, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Awesome thanks! Thegayfrenchbullie123 6:11 pm, March 10, 2020, EST