Talk:Nordic cuisine

Salmon

Salmon is described as everyday Norwegian food, but salmon, trout and other salmonid fish is eaten also at least in Finland. Here its role is somewhat confusing, regarded as the king of fish (after most salmon rivers were destroyed by dams and) until the farming started a few decades ago, with heritage from that time, but also the fish most easily available in supermarkets, quite cheap and common also as everyday food.

I think the description in Ingredients needs rewriting, but I only know the Finnish reality of the species.

--LPfi (talk) 19:39, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Dont disagree. But I guess the difference is that Norway is a major producer of farmed salmon. Salmon used to be expensive, but salmon farming has pushed prices down to make it an everyday food - I guess this is true for other countries too. --Erik den yngre (talk) 20:29, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Here we farm(ed) rainbow trout, which became the most easily accessible (and quite cheap) fish. True salmon kept its status until we got your farmed fish. Now also other species, such as Arctic char, are being farmed and probably soon loosing the status. Anyway, as Norwegian salmon is sold in any supermarket over here, the situation is not unlike that in Norway. --LPfi (talk) 20:39, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

"Kaviar"

There is an image of that typical Scandinavian fish creme (for lack of a better term) captioned with "kaviar". Now, I may be alone in this, but Kaviar to me implies fish eggs. And that particular product either contains no eggs or has them ground so finely that the consumer does not notice them. Should the caption be changed? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:51, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

w:Kalles kaviar is based on fish eggs, but also contains some condiments. Nevertheless, the product is only altered so little that even the French apparently still classify it as caviar. I'd say, let's keep the caption. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:05, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Norwegian kaviar contains 50-70 % eggs, as far as I remember, there are different types, in some you can see the eggs. Some types are "kaviar mix" for instance with mayonnaise added. I think Norwegian kaviar is mostly from cod and is often smoked. When I grew up on the coast we even hadd big chunks of fried kaviar for dinner, hearty food for sure. --Erik den yngre (talk) 21:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Thai and Indian

The article says "restaurants serving styles from outside the Nordic countries, Thailand and India for instance, offer more affordable deals." In my experience at least Indian restaurants have prices comparable to those with Finnish or Scandinavian cuisine. The cheap ones are kebab-pizzerias, while Chinese, and probably Thai, mostly keep to lower mid-range prices. Does this vary by country? —The preceding comment was added by LPfi (talk • contribs)

It is hard to make a very precise rule as there are exceptions. In general (in Norway), Indian/Pakistani, Chinese and Thai tend to be affordable, but there are also more expensive, even high-end, such restaurants. --Erik den yngre (talk) 18:55, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Why do we even have a "foreign cuisines" section? This article is about the indigenous cuisines of the Nordic countries. Each country article has its own "Eat" section, which would cover indigenous and non-indigenous cuisine available in that country, and is a better place to discuss which restaurants are cheaper than others.

I looked at the ten other national "cuisine" articles for Europe. Only the Spanish one includes foreign cuisines. The other eight do not. Ground Zero (talk) 21:11, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Seems sensible, especially in the cases where no fusion has occurred. Do people they are an important part of Nordic cuisine? I suppose it is possible to discuss availability and price in restaurants without mentioning them or only hinting at their existence. –LPfi (talk) 12:18, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

"Cuisine" is used in English to mean a "a style or method of cooking, especially as characteristic of a particular country, region, or establishment". Unless someone is making pickled herring Pad Thai or putting cod on pizza, I think foreign foods should be left out. This is about "Nordic cuisine", not about "eating in Nordic countries". I spehtvsome time in Iceland, but I have not been to the Scandinavian countries, and my visit to Finland was brief, so I have little direct knowledge of this subject. I will leave it to the experts. Ground Zero (talk) 14:41, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Better remove sentences about "international" cuisine. Erik den yngre (talk) 16:52, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

So how should we do it?

I remember reading about foreign fine dining influences, but I don't find anything about that in the article. Foreign influences should be discussed, but I don't know how and to what extent.

I think the section on restaurants could stay, but be changed to tell how to find Nordic cuisine. What kind of restaurants serve ("genuine"?) Nordic dishes? Can you just pick anything from the menu, should you ask or should you know yourself what to order? I think we should present a discussion on hotel breakfasts, lunch offers, fine dining, fuel station meals, and the husmanskost you get at some lodgings. And what about paying visits to locals?

There is also a section Foreign cuisines. It should probably be removed, perhaps incorporating something to the Restaurants section, and probably checking that the information can be found in the country articles or in Nordic countries#Eat.

–LPfi (talk) 18:49, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Crisp bread taste

Husman

I changed "[hard bread] is more known for its traditional value, than its taste" into "Many locals appreciate them rather for their traditional value and shelf life than for their taste."

I am not sure about whether the "many locals" is the right wording. Hard flatbread is a common staple as complement to school lunches and the like in Finland. People certainly have some opinion on them. I know I appreciate the taste of some traditional hard rye flatbreads, but I don't know what people think in general.

I am also not sure whether we should make an explicit distinction between the types eaten to meals and the types served with cheese as desert. I did add the "skorpa" (resisting the temptation to add something about their success in France)

–LPfi (talk) 12:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Some hard bread does not have much taste, such as the traditional Wasa husman, other variants have more taste, such as Wasa sport or rustikal. But also for me shelf life is key (we keep it at a mountain lodge we visit infrequently and I also have some in my office as backup food). --Erik den yngre (talk) 13:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Fishing and hunting

@Ikan Kekek: Fishing and hunting rights belong to the owner of the water and land, and water and land are often privately owned. For water, there are often collectives (the land owners of a village share fishing waters), for land, hunting rights are usually delegated to the local hunting club. As a foreigner you have no rights to these lands and waters (except for certain fishing), but if you make friends (with your host or otherwise) or have "indirect friends", such as through reciprocal arrangements with a hunting club, you might be able to fish or hunt using your friend's rights or quota. I don't know how to explain this elegantly, but I think it might be relevant for some travellers who stay a longer time somewhere. –LPfi (talk) 20:57, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, LPfi. I think the best way to explain that is by copying this paragraph onto the page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:10, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Rules in Norway:

• Fishing in saltwater is for all without special permit
  • Fishing is not permitted around river mouths
  • Some restrictions with regard to fishing for salmon and trout with net
• Fishing in freshwater is generally not permitted without permission from owner (rivers are basically private)
• Hunting is only for owners (most of the land is private but some of the high mountains are government property and hunting may be permitted for all), possible to buy hunting permit from owner

--Erik den yngre (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes. My point was about getting the permits from owners. In Finland lure fishing is nowadays allowed with the national permit (except in rivers with salmonids), but for net fishing you need the owner's permission. Most people in the countryside have part in the fishing waters, and they could allow your fishing by nets (or whatever) in their company. Similarly with hunting if you have a hunter friend. –LPfi (talk) 20:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Rules for lakes in Norway are bit complicated so I guess we can not go into details. In Norway's rivers there are only (I think) salmon and trout, some lakes have other types of fish but mostly in the salmon family (such as sik). The biggest lakes are regarded as the ocean with few/no special rights for the land owner. Crayfish (kräfta) is also reserved for the landowner. For lakes perhaps something general like "ask locals"? Erik den yngre (talk) 20:13, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I now expanded the section. I think country specific details should go in one of the country, right to access, hunting or hiking articles, not to spread them to one more article to keep maintained. I hope that what I wrote was general enough to apply to all the countries, and sufficient to convey the rules of the game. –LPfi (talk) 15:30, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I added a line about hunting license which is needed for the individual hunter in addition to permit to hunt on specific piece of land. Only those carrying a gun need a license, while any "assistant" can join the hunting team. --Erik den yngre (talk) 17:51, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Also here. Shooting tests are required only for big game hunting over here, and the "assistant" can use the gun "under close supervision" without any licences (which usually are a hassle for foreigners). –LPfi (talk) 18:40, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

" Norway is one of the few countries in the world, where it is possible to eat whale at a restaurant'

I did not know this was still the case: can whale meat be consumed in Norwegian restaurants? What other countries permit this? Just curious.

Thanks in advance for replying, Ottawahitech (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Japan, I assume, but I am not updated. –LPfi (talk) 18:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Sure, there are no rules against eating or serving whale meat (meat is also for sale in supermarkets). Hunting is strictly regulated. --Erik den yngre (talk) 09:41, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Guide?

While I don't know anything more about Nordic cuisine outside Norwegian and Danish cuisines, what is needed for this to become a guide article? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:01, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

It at least needs some checking and copy editing, mostly for better flow.

The formal criteria (including those for usable) are

• A good overview – could be better, but I'd say pass with good margin
• No obvious omissions – see below
• Destination listings if practical – do we want them here? I don't see any good way to limit such a list, other than letting Michelin decide: the towns with Michelin star restaurants are not too many, and neither are two-star restaurants. Perhaps town with famous food fairs representing other types of food could be mentioned. What about the herring and harvest markets? Too many?
• Format according to the manual of style – I'd suppose so
• Custom page-banner – yes.

It is always hard to see the omissions, unless you have a checklist in your head or otherwise, but a few points:

• We don't tell much about different restaurants. For Finland, I'd say there is at least a difference between fine dining restaurants with ambitions, normal restaurants, everyday eateries (including workplace cafeterias and service stations), fast food joints, and the countryside full board lodgings (where you often get traditional food "developed to a certain refinement", as we say in Understand)
• There is no section on what to expect when invited to somebody or to a formal party. I don't know whether there is a common Nordic tradition, but if so, a few types could be described (coffee invitation, dinner invitation, cottage weekend, afternoon at a summer house, Midsummer?). Or should this be in other articles?
• Where do you look for food for self-catering? What can you find in any supermarket? How do you find the other stuff?

Perhaps these aren't "obvious omissions". Are they? Other omissions?

–LPfi (talk) 12:29, 12 July 2022 (UTC)