(WT-en) Huttite

Learn more about this page

Hello Huttite! Welcome to Wikivoyage. Please take a sec to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you need help, check out Project:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.

BTW, may I suggest you also take a look at our Project:Main Page policy. When we add a new link we place it as the first in the section and we remove the last one. There is no need to order anything by size. We also limit the number of links per section to about 4-5. Thanks! (WT-en) DhDh 06:22, 14 Feb 2004 (EST)

Call it a newbie error - I didn't see the policy, so just added one link - I didn't know what to take off, so left all the others there - and hoped someone would correct me if I was wrong....

Bold terms

So, I noticed that you've been bolding the first mention of the subject of a page on the page. I don't have any problem with this, but it's not in our manual of style. I'm trying to figure out if it should be.

I know it's the standard on Wikipedia, but I have no idea why. Do you? --(WT-en) Evan 10:46, 11 Mar 2004 (EST)

'Scuse butting in but I know you raised this in the pub too. According to Wikipedia's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Follow_highlighting_conventions, "This makes it easier for the casual reader to identify the topic, especially when the text is copied to a different context." I wonder if it also has something to do with self links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Self_link) which automatically appear as bold in Wikipedia.

I must admit I have been following the practice, assuming it was Wikivoyage style but I guess I've spent too long in Wikipedia. (WT-en) Nurg 01:19, 12 Mar 2004 (EST)

In many respects, my use of Bold terms is a carry-over from WikiPedia too. Mind you it is a bit of a decorative thing that has been used in many books too. However, I think it also looks professional as well as just being nice and decorative. I wouldn't like to use it a lot, just the first mention, though later on putting the subject in italics also adds an extra touch. The bold terms allows the reader to quickly identify what the article is about. Have a look at the Surfers Paradise article - where the name first appears a couple of sentences in - before and after bolding and tell me which version you like better.

BTW - The other reason I am bolding these articles is that many show as dead end pages when they have links on them (I think this is a bug or database corruption). So bolding is a minor edit that can justify editing the page and fix the dead end paging at the same time. (WT-en) Huttite 03:34, 12 Mar 2004 (EST)

Oh, yeah, thanks. You're absolutely right: when we had a db crash a couple of weeks ago, I had problems rebuilding the links table. I need to figure that out.

So, I think the main thing I want to make sure of is that it works well with our manual of style. We use boldface to call out important topics (like we use italics for emphasis). I think highlighting the first mention of the topic of a page is an OK example of that. --(WT-en) Evan 11:19, 12 Mar 2004 (EST)

Admin nomination

Huttite, I've just nominated you for admin status. Please have a look at Project:Administrator nominations. (WT-en) ~~Dhum Dhum~~ Akubra 11:03, 24 Mar 2004 (EST)

Huttite, thanks for replying in such an honest way to your nomination. It shows that you are sincere and that you take Wikivoyage seriously (in case someone else didn't notice that already :-) Anyways, whenever you do feel ready for an administrator role, feel free to let us know on the nominations page. In the meantime, I'll be glad to collaborate/discuss further with you on Wikivoyage. (WT-en) ~~Dhum Dhum~~ Akubra 11:45, 25 Mar 2004 (EST)

Thanks!

Thanks for adding the Project:How to redirect a page, I was just about to request that as I was getting frustrated with always doing it wrong! Thanks (WT-en) Majnoona 17:43, 28 Mar 2004 (EST)

Appreciation

I just wanted to take a second and say thanks for the incredible job you've been doing on Wikivoyage. I'm really amazed and glad that this project has such good people as yourself doing such hard work. --(WT-en) Evan 21:45, 11 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Thanks for the comments about the Mount Kinabalu page - I've now added more info. --(WT-en) Dzof 14:31, 18 Apr 2004 (EDT)~

Thanks for your anti-vandalism work! Keep it up! --(WT-en) SouthBayJohn

Thanks for being so helpful but not a jerk! constructive criticism is the best. you rule! themoomin

Factbookectomy

I dunno who came up with that term, but I really like it.

It in the edit log somewhere I think. Fitting term too - Factbook + ectomy (from greek tome - a cutting) => Cut down or cut out Factbook. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:10, 27 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Anyways, I really appreciate you've been doing so much de-factbookization. I think it's great. My only concern is that we seem to be leaving in a lot of the "database"-style definitions. I don't think we need them; usually, they're replicated in prose on the page.

How would you feel about taking out the definition lists, too? Just, y'know, killing 'em altogether, and leaving in the factbook pages on a talk subpage for reference? I know that some of the definitions have worthwhile info, but I don't think the definition list is really the best style. --(WT-en) Evan 14:35, 25 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Its an area I felt needed attention. I added a page to keep track of all the Factbooks that need an Factbookectomy as I found it frustrating that so few had been done according to the suggestions. Also the article about editing factbooks may need a few more words as I think I know the factbook items that should be kept and how to integrate them. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:10, 27 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Disambiguation

Thanks for the help on "Pittsburgh". Between you and Evan I am beginning to understand the process better. Hopefully this won't be dangerous! I had incorrectly assumed that a link created for the first time on one page would "automatically" be disambiguated by the software. Not sure why it doesn't but now that I know I won't make the same mistake again. (WT-en) William M Goetsch 09:09, 30 Apr 2004 (EDT)

The beauty of a wiki is that if you do not know how to handle it, someone else probably does know and can help you. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:53, 1 May 2004 (EDT)

Thanks

Thanks for commenting on some of the stuff I've been doing and giving advice. Sometimes I think I don't think right, and need to be straightened out :-). The fact that people double check my work makes me feel a lot better about trying. Thanks! -- (WT-en) Colin 14:14, 8 May 2004 (EDT)

(My Summary: attached to the above change was bogus thanks to form auto-fill. Argh. Meant to just say Thanks. It's a useful feature, most of the time. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:16, 8 May 2004 (EDT))

Admin

So, would you mind if I renominate you for admin status? I've been greatly impressed by your excellent good-citizenship, and I think you'd make a good administrator.

I'm a little torn, though -- your great work so far shows how much responsibility and participation can happen without admin status. You make a great posterboy for how any Wikivoyager can "administer" this site without any special extras. --(WT-en) Evan 14:12, 18 May 2004 (EDT)

Unpacking URLs

Moved to Project:External links -- (WT-en) Huttite 00:29, 22 May 2004 (EDT)

No apology needed

See Project:External links --(WT-en) Nzpcmad 04:26, 22 May 2004 (EDT)

De-factbook

So, I have to admit that I haven't been following that closely on the de-factbooking process. I was pretty surprised to see so many pages with a mix of factbook and non-factbook info on them.

I guess I expected the pages to be a lot more bare. But, instead, there's lots of factbook definition-style stuff in there.

Can we talk about this on Project:How to de-factbook a country page? --(WT-en) Evan 20:52, 17 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Sure can. Will respond there. -- (WT-en) Huttite 23:22, 18 Jun 2004 (EDT)

You're Back!

Yay! Huttite is back! -- (WT-en) Colin 15:10, 8 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Have recently been very busy with work (getting on top of an expanded job) and also had some personal stuff to deal with, so had to ease off here to cope with the overload. I didn't go away, just was not active - I still visited (occasionally) but did not do any edits. Hopefully I can spend a bit more time here again as my work/life balance moves back into an equilibrium again. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:13, 9 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Thanks for being a good welcome committee!

I've been travelling and now I'm back to a huge pile of work-- thanks for keeping up on all the welcomes! I think first-impressions of the community are really important... (WT-en) Majnoona

Images and copyright

Alright, thanks for the advice. Picdiary.com has licenced its images under a creative commons licence that grants permission for use with attribution, without requiring permission. This is entirely separate from normal fair use rights. (WT-en) Tlogmer

This reply posted on Tlogmer talk page:

I am not objecting to the licencing of the images, just the fact that the licence to copy was not stated or indicated anywhere. Because some people can be upset by their copyrighted images being stolen the right to copy needs to be explicitly stated for WikiTravel images. It was the lack of a statement I had a problem with. (WT-en) Huttite 22:31, 15 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Ads

I've lived in Ann Arbor my entire life (delivered pizza for a few years, so I know the area better even than most residents), and the content of those ads bordered on the absurd. They are not helpful for the traveller, and they ruin the credibility of wikivoyage for ann arborites who look up their hometown out of curiosity. If I'm not allowed to label them as the obvious marketing they are (and why not? one of the listed Non-Goals is advertising), can I at least trim back their language into something approaching reality? (WT-en) Tlogmer

(Clarification: What galls is how nonrepresentative the ads are, more than how factually inaccurate -- the page isn't just a collection of disparate facts; someone browsing the site will form a picture of the city from what things are listed and how much space they get. Wiard's Orchard does not deserve a long paragraph. It's not even in the city, and it's just a bloody orchard (one of several in the region, if it matters). There are hundreds of better things to put there, and while I don't have time to put them all there myself, I thought I could at least make clear that much of the page has nothing to do with most of what a visitor will experience (or want to).

Replys to the Ann Arbor talk page:

wiki quickbar

Do we have any special wiki tag/Template to clean up pre-existing HTML quickbar on country pages

Otherwise I am ready to write a template like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Biography (It is used at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi )

~ (WT-en) Bijee 11:32, 1 Nov 2004 (EST)

No, see Project:Using Mediawiki templates and Project:Using Mediawiki templates for the reasons Wikivoyage is not using Template:* namespace articles for content. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:54, 2 Jan 2005 (EST)

Galveston 500 Error

Did (WT-en) Evan get back to you about the 500 error, it seems like the Galveston page was not the only one that was doing that. (WT-en) Texaswebscout

Not yet. He has not been on-line recently. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:35, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)

That was a good idea about using the Galveston, Texas page, but it does not work either. I think that an admin is going to have to delete both pages. Then we can recreate both, I will copy all the information off of the original page and save it to be pasted when an admin does do that.--(WT-en) Texas Web Scout 09:16, 6 Jan 2005 (EST)

The page I created was Galveston (Texas), Evan cannot fix Galveston or Galveston, Texas until next week - see Project:Bug reports 1.3.5#Galveston Broken - (WT-en) Huttite 15:28, 6 Jan 2005 (EST)

If you're going to be around for a while..

Can you keep an eye on 213.228.74.100 and the main page? I have to go to bed. -- (WT-en) Mark 20:17, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

I'm on holiday, its raining, I can't paint my deck (as it's wet), my modem didn't work this morning (5 hours ago), Slash-dot hit us yesterday and now we have spammers. Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Joy - I need to work off the aggression somehow, as I have another 8 hours before I would even think about going to bed!!!! -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:39, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

Loonie

The Canadian Dollar is known as a "loonie" after the bird printed on the dollar coin. I'm not sure it's infobox material, but it's not really graffiti. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:40, 6 Jan 2005 (EST)

Se question on Talk:Canada -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:47, 6 Jan 2005 (EST)

Alternate name redirects

Hi, Thanks for your kind words. Please see my answer/question on my User_talk. In short -- how far should we proceed with adding Alternate name redirects... -- (WT-en) JanSlupski 18:13, 12 Jan 2005 (EST)

Las Vegas

I suggested to User:Mbstone

If you do have websites that you believe are important for the traveller to consult before visiting Las Vegas please discuss these on the the article talk page, so your reasons can be understood. Merely adding them back into the External links invites their removal. There could be better places to put them that are better associated with the website content. -- Huttite 20:59, 21 Jan 2005 (EST)

reply

I didn't realize or expect that my adding extranl likns was being reverted, I thought it was that Evan was editing the page at the same time as I. (WT-en) mbstone 01:50, 24 Jan 2005 (EST)

Please see External links to understand what is happening. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:02, 24 Jan 2005 (EST)

Kankakee

2005-02-01-05: (WT-en) Dionysios responds to Huttite's 2004-12-31-04 172500 page: Thank you; its good to be part of Wikivoyage; and Dionysios appreciates your many contributions to Wikivoyage and your noticing his modest efforts. 66.158.76.2 are Kankakee Public Library public computers at which he sometimes works. Dionysios could be, but is not necessarily, 66.158.76.2. Dionysios did write Kankakee and some other pages before registering; and he hopes to do more on Kankakee and for Wikivoyage soon.

Baltic

Please stop this: you're creating the mess with Baltic, confusing Eastern/Northern Europe and the Baltics ... (WT-en) Wojsyl 17:14, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

I see the Baltic countries as a legitimate region in Europe. Quite how they are shoehorned into the larger articles of Eastern Europe, Central Europe and Northern Europe is something that has to be worked out. The Baltic is a body of water that touches on all those articles so should refer to all of them. I do not see it as a confusion but a clarification. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:36, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

Agree, but instead of putting the Baltic countries to Northern Europe please read Talk:Europe/Hierarchy#Proposed_solution first, where apparently a consensus has been finally reached on general division of Europe. (WT-en) Wojsyl 17:46, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

Stay safe

Concerning the statement:

Also everyone should avoid the beach area to the west of the old dock that juts out to sea from the end of Avenida Republica. The east side, including Barrio Isla, is safer.

What is the danger to avoid? Drowning? Rips? Sharp rocks or coral reef and big waves popular with surfers? Crime? Sharks? Poisonous or venomous shellfish? Pollution? - One mans meat is another mans poison. -- (WT-en) Huttite 18:29, 23 Jan 2005 (EST)

The area (el hoyo)is ruled by a local and heavily armed gang, and they sell crack cocaine from there. As a foreigner no one has any reason to go there, as one is in danger of being robbed or murdered for being a white person there. This is not anyone's meat except those with a suicidal nature. Sure, if your meat is buying crack, you speak good Spanish and you like a lot of excitement go for it. Watch out for the police on your way out. I honestly don't think this the type of person who would read this site. You would have to know exactly what you were doing to go to the hoyo, whereas this page is aimed at people who don't know La Ceiba, and this section is aimed at the ignorant who enter that area unknowingly, thinking ooh let's go to the beach. User:(WT-en) Squeakfox.

Lop Buri

Thanks for the update, I had added Lop Buri from the Thailand/Central Plains page - but didn't know I needed to put a 'back-link' on the page.

Carnival Elation

So I've initiated a discussion in Talk:Carnival Elation regading whether this experiment is working out. Perhaps you might like to comment there. -- (WT-en) Colin 19:27, 27 Feb 2005 (EST)

Rovaniemi, Finland

Hello Huttite,

Thanks for the warm welcome. If you get a chance to visit Finland, don't hesitate to go to Rovaniemi and even further up north if you can. I can give you a good address to stay in a nice cabin with sauna and fireplace.

I hope I can contribute further to Wikipedia. I love the idea!

(WT-en) Jumpysky 13:24, 24 Mar 2005 (EST)

Thanks!

Yet another typo stomped by Huttite! -- (WT-en) Mark 10:26, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the advice. Q: What's an Upper Hutt New Zealander doing interested in Polish cities? Cheers! (WT-en) khrystene

Minneapolis, MN, USA

Thanks for your help. I am a Minneapolis fanatic and added something to every section. You may want to see my talk:Minneapolis notes and you may want to look over my format. I tried to do well considering my spare time! Take care.

--(WT-en) Westifer 06:36, 08 Apr 2005 (EST)

Dearest Huttite

Dearest Huttite,

I must ask is there an appropriate place in the guide to suggest books pertaining to a destination. Maybe a "Read" section? Thanks. (WT-en) Sapphire 00:37, 19 May 2005 (EDT)

Have a look at Project:Where you can stick it. Newspapers go in the Understand section, so perhaps appropriate books might too. But also look at Project:External links and Project:Contributor research links first. If you are suggesting a particular book for a particular location then there should be a good reason to recommend it - otherwise someone will remove it. BUT perhaps the best place is to first propose and discuss including a book on the article Talk page. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:52, 19 May 2005 (EDT)

County Article Names

When I first set up the 53 counties of ND, I was finding many names duplicate names of counties in other states. To avoid confusion and duplicate work, I decided to name all 53 as Name County (North Dakota). I realized when I did this that some of the counties were not duplicated in other states and the ND parentheses were not necessary, but it was easier to stick to one naming convention as I wrote the various articles. By changing Oliver County (North Dakota) to Oliver County, this becomes an exception to the naming convention I am using, and will almost certainly lead to errors down the road. Unless there is really a good reason to go changing some of the names and leaving others unchanged, I would like to keep the (North Dakota) in all the county names. Do you see a problem with that? (WT-en) Stavp 17:20, 10 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Please see my replies on the Oliver County talk page and the North Dakota talk page. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:50, 11 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Administrative nomination

You have been nominated for admin status on Wikivoyage. You can view the current discussion about this at Project:Administrator nominations. If you are interested, please indicate your willingness on Project:Administrator nominations. You were nominated before when you were new to wikivoyage and there was still too much uncertainty on all parts. I'm hoping uncertainty has changed to happy familarity. -- (WT-en) Colin 11:40, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, and the new rights! I hope I don't need them too often. -- (WT-en) Huttite 09:17, 28 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Admin nomination

I've added an nomination for User:(WT-en) Pjamescowie to become an admin. Please stop by and give your opinion. --(WT-en) Evan 19:49, 2 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Thane

I've added some stuff about Thane. Thanks for your interest. I am really a newbie, though I've been lurking for long. So I'll be needing your help now and then. Hope that's okay. (WT-en) Sunray Traveller 11:21, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

It was just a guess on my part, to find a home for an orphan page. Just one of the things I do to help. -- (WT-en) Huttite 09:01, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Thanks!

Just a note to say thanks for dealing with everyone's favorite Wikivoyage user earlier today. It looks like you were pretty much on your own, so kudos for perservering. -- (WT-en) Ryan 03:46, 23 Jul 2005 (EDT)

I discovered it to be a learning experience! And it will be put to good use. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:55, 23 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Cool! This guy's last visit was how I learned how to delete a page and how to handle page moves, so between the two of us it seems he may be doing some good. His motivation is a bit of a mystery (is he just that bored?) although perhaps he has User:(WT-en) Mark confused with the Mark who first banned him on Wikipedia. Anyhow, thanks again, and I'll see if I can do my part to help out by deleting the remainder of the redirects. -- (WT-en) Ryan 04:02, 23 Jul 2005 (EDT)

I think he(?) is working under the misapprehension that this is a WikiMedia project. I think the best course of action is to let him take out his frustrations then undo and clean up anything he does. Blocking him will simply make him pop up somewhere else, without his identity being immediately obvious. And he wants to be blocked, so that should be avoided, as it will justify his activity in his eyes. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:01, 23 Jul 2005 (EDT)

I couldn't agree more. Thanks a ton for such excellent work so far, gang, and remember to just walk away if you get frustrated. There is strength in numbers. --(WT-en) Evan 13:37, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Gower

Thanks for fixing the broken link to Gower/Swansea - much appreciated. User:211.76.97.250

Are you still around?

I haven't seen your name pop up recently - just curious if you were still around. I've been playing around in a lot of the NZ articles lately as I'm planning my next trip back. Of course that won't be until early '07, back I'm excited. I didn't make it to your part of the country on my first trip (I flew over it...), but this next one should put me on the ferry.

Anyway - just a little "ping" -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:22, 2 Nov 2005 (EST)

Yes, I am around - again. I have not been around recently due to a rather nasty little 'flu' virus I acquired a couple of months ago. Put me off work for a week, and I have spent the last couple of months recovering - mostly by sleeping rather than staying up late at night on Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:07, 14 Nov 2005 (EST)

Article States

Wow! You really wanted your opinion heard, didn't you? :) I was surprised at the number of paragraphs involved!

I understand the majority of your points, and I don't want you to think that I was running off trying to set up a new policy, but I didn't really want to see it sit in a committee for ages upon ages, either. I figured if the process got into place, everyone would notice and get involved - if it stayed on that talk page, it'd get seen occasionally and could be easily forgotten.

I have to agree that the wording is not the best in the world... I struggled with it as I was writing it. I cleared the page a number of times without ever saving it because I just didn't get the right feeling from it. In the end I just went with what I could drag out of my head and figured that the community would bring it in line - which is apparently exactly what is happening.

So hopefully with it being Sunday afternoon for you, you'll be able to jump in and we'll get this thing rolling. I'll be spotty on computer use for the weekend, but I'll be sure to watch this one and contribute as it develops. Thanks for sharing and helping.

PS - I wish I were on your time zone... because I'd really love to be over there! -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 10:47, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

I have recently been through a similar exercise at work, modelling a business process for statistical measurement. We had to come up with a simple process that would work in internationally in 8 different legal juridictions, independent of all of them, and their IT systems and still be comparable and internationally consistent - then sell it to everyone. I supposed you got my mental offload of ideas when I saw your proposal was doing pretty much the same thing - only simpler. -- (WT-en) Huttite 23:13, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Help Please

I saw that you earlier moved some cities I added Kingston (WA) to Kingston (Washington) for example. I realized that other of my local cities will have namesakes around the world and all our communities are fairly small so thought it prudent to add (Washington) to the names, however this has left two pages - such as Poulsbo and Poulsbo (Washington). I have added the template and start of text to the one towns with (Washington) and need to know how to delete or move or ... earlier, plain cities to the pages that now have (Washington). Doing a search only the first pages I added come up - not the newer corrected ones. Don't worry - I'll catch on - I just need a little help!

My goal is to eventually get good content for all the 32 communities on the Kitsap Peninsula in Washington State.

Thanks (WT-en) Kitsap 15:00, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Please stop creating more articles with (Washington) as you will create a rod for your own back. Develop the original 32 article names. The only issue I have is that the ORIGINAL content was dubious, but that can be changed... However, once names are created they are a pain to manage if they are duplicates - as we are all just learning now! Decide on one name to use - preferably the shortest name and ONLY develop that one. ONLY develop an article with (Washington) in the article name IF there is ALREADY another place in Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:17, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Thanks

Just found my usertalk page and saw you had posted a comment there (quite a while ago). Not used to this "pull" technology, so luck I ever found it. But since I did, thanks for recognizing my contributions! - Cheyenne

Gold Coast Thanks

Hey, thanks for the brief note of thanks on my Gold Coast contributions :) Wasn't expecting recognition! Someone else pointed out the external linking policy which I hadn't found before.. Cheers mate (WT-en) E-CBD 20:45, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)E-CBD

How to link from one section to another

Huttite,

Can you tell me how to make a link that takes a reader to a different part of the same article?

Thanks. (WT-en) Sapphire 22:15, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

Add [[#Section|refered part]] as the link - this displays as refered part.

For example [[#How to link from one section to another|this section]] - this section. - (WT-en) Huttite 01:10, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

YggdrasilBot

I've got a proposal for a bot to do the cleanup work on breadcrumb navigation here: Project:Script nominations#YggdrasilBot. Your comment welcome, please. --(WT-en) Evan 00:02, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

Project:Policy

Since there is already a Project:Policies and guidelines page I redirected the Project:Policy page. I should have looked at the timestamp of your change first, so if you were in the process of creating a page with a specific purpose feel free to revert my change. -- (WT-en) Ryan 01:38, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

No, no - that's OK. I just wanted a place to hang a link off the Policy link on the deletion action page. Your solution is probably the best. -- (WT-en) Huttite

I fixed the deletion action page, too. --(WT-en) Evan 11:52, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

Great! -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:48, 12 Dec 2005 (EST)

Thanks

Thanks a lot... that was a real hassle. Lots of different IP addresses, too. --(WT-en) Evan 02:14, 13 Dec 2005 (EST)

Must have been a robot or anonymiser that has worked out a way to get around the Mediawiki security. The thing that twigged me was that all the edits had 1096 bytes. It was easy to target the affected pages using New Pages and Short Pages, without bothering what IP addresses were doing it. Perhaps we need a check that stops two or more new page edits in a row, within a couple of minutes, with exactly the same text on different pages. Perhaps I should make a feature request. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:29, 13 Dec 2005 (EST)

Thanks...

for correcting Andhra Pradesh after me.--(WT-en) Ravikiran 06:51, 22 Dec 2005 (EST)

The cities showed up on the orphan pages. When one referred to Andhra Pradesh I trolled through the history and realised you had not purged the page before you had removed all the unlinked articles. The 3 I found had apparently been created after the page was last edited, so the links had not been refreshed and still showed as edit links. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:15, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)

Oh.. I hadn't realised. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 04:58, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)

Just a little consequence of page caching, rather than regenerating every request on the fly. That's why I now always preview the page before editing, by ticking the preview preference box. Then I can see the latest version. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:46, 27 Dec 2005 (EST)

Himalayas

You've been linking the Himalayas. Where does it fit? --(WT-en) Ravikiran 04:58, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)

I see Himalayas as being a trans-national article about mountain ranges like the Alps, the Rockies and the Andes. A search reveals 20+ mentions of the name. I see this article as being an overview if visiting this area of the world without the political/country structure overlay. It probably fits as a section at the continental level of Asia. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:43, 23 Dec 2005 (EST)

Editing Photo's

Oh Guru of all things Wiki, can you tell me how to delete photo's? Or direct me to the appropriate link page. I uploaded a rather large pic and would like to remove it. Cheers (WT-en) khrystene

Read Project:How to delete a page and post the Image page on Project:Votes for deletion with [[:Image:imagename.ext]] and explain why you want it deleted. They get deleted every now and then by an administrator. -- (WT-en) Huttite 21:34, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)

Thanks again. (WT-en) khrystene

Template question

moved to Talk:Ko_Si_Chang#Template_question

Accented spellings

Thanks for the crêpe message - how about café? (that was the precedent I followed)

Strangely enough cafe is not the correct spelling, according to my dictionary, café is! So I accept it, though I always write cafe and never try to correct it. Perhaps lexicographers can be wrong. However, café is commonly used on signs, but then so is cafe. I think that maybe café is a word where the English usage is still evolving. I really think that café indicates a French word, while cafe is the true English spelling that will come about in a few years, to stand along with caff and cafeteria. There is a significant difference between a Cafe and a Caff in my mind. The first is what used to be called tearooms while the latter is still a Cafeteria. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:57, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

I've commented out the crepe entries and my spellchecking efforts are now permanently suspended until a definitive resource is declared on the Project:Spelling page.

I've also discovered that "crepe myrtle" is a variant spelling of "crape myrtle" and should NOT be spelt with an ê - so unreserved apologies for that one!

Thanks for your help and especially for your patience.

I think we see mainly eye-to-eye on the issue of diacriticals, etc., but your comments in the Project:List of common misspellings thread intrigue me. My remarks on Española (New Mexico) are accurate (pronounce Spanish words there as though they're the king's English, or worse, with a Texas drawl, and you risk serious trouble in some places), but it's an extreme example -- Española is a very tourist-unfriendly place and most in New Mexico are more forgiving. What's the equivalent situation in New Zealand? How important is it to make some attempt to pronounce Maori place names correctly? If the answer is "you better do it in town X or you risk getting run through with a spear," then please use the macrons in the relevant article and help us non-New Zealanders, whether they're easy to access via keyboard or not... -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 20:23, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

If you read Maori phrasebook I think it ~~says~~ implies we just smile politely and grit our teeth. And if you do get run through with a spear it is because you were standing in the wrong place and should have listened to your protocol advisor in the first place. I have heard of this happening a couple of times and the person concerned had stepped over the string/white line that marked out the area to keep clear of. You do duck your head when boarding a running helicopter don't you? That is why they paint a big circle on the ground with a H in the middle for helecopters to land on. The same applies to whirling spears. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:51, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

Thanks for the Welcome message!

Halló Huttite! Thanks for your message and the note about the uploaded image. To my understanding it is part of the newest release of MediaWiki. I worked on this some months ago together with wikipedia:en:User:Get It. Would you like to contact him about the required licence? Thanks in advance! Best regards (WT-en) Gangleri | T 19:03, 5 Jan 2006 (EST)

According to the Project:Image policy obtaining a release is the responsibility of the uploader. -- (WT-en) Huttite 19:09, 5 Jan 2006 (EST)

Hi! We do not understand what exact license is requested. Please see [1]. Best regards (WV-en) Gangleri | T 23:04, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Thanks

Thanks for your hard work on that spammer tonight! -- (WT-en) Colin 00:58, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

I hope the next one gets a nasty surprise after I worked out how to block their HTML style commands that hides their spam. Nobody should be using style commands on this Wiki - I think. -- (WT-en) Huttite 01:50, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Spam in Capri article

The user Mimmo46 continues to add his link (www.appartamentiischia.it) to Capri article. I made a little search, and I have seen that he put his link in various other pages. Is it possible to stop him? -- (WT-en) Alessandro Astarita 07:45, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Please read Project:How to handle unwanted edits. The simple solution is to tell the user to stop and revert/remove the edits/links concerned, and repeat this for as long as it takes for the user to get the message. The activity is not frequent enough to warrant anything sterner at present. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:56, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

re: Release for Image:Mlic.jpg

Hi Huttite

I have added release info in the images let me know if its ok now.

And thanks for correcting the pages.

(WT-en) anurag

That release notice looks fine.--(WT-en) Huttite 16:18, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Spam attack

Thanks for taking care of so much of the recent spam attack. It looks to me like an automated, distributed attack, but it might be something else (who knows?). My guess is that with distributed attacks, adding the URL to the local spam blacklist will probably be more effective than playing whack-a-mole with zombified computers by blocking IPs. I'm pretty down on blocking IPs in the first place, so that might just be my bias talking.

Anyways, thanks for the hard work once again. --(WT-en) Evan 00:41, 7 Jan 2006 (EST)

It looks like some user pages may have been clobbered in one or another of these attacks; User:(WT-en) Mark no longer seems to point to Mark Jaroski's writings. Any idea what happened? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:24, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

It is a bug! You are looking at User:(WT-en) Mark. not User:(WT-en) Mark, whose page is actually here [2], not here [3] and has a following period. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:49, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

Right, I got that, but (1) seem unable to get at the non-period Mark's page without following the complete link; (2) can't get at the non-period Mark's talk page at all (we're working on some map stuff and need to communicate); and (3) didn't have this problem before yesterday's spam attack. Not clear that there's cause-and-effect there, but ... -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 17:39, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

To clarify the situation I have put a note with full URL links that go to the appropriate Index.php versions of the pages. I can only assume that some recent software or database change has caused user pages with the trailing period to be detected ahead of those without. -- (WT-en) Huttite 18:38, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

External Link

I haved added a small section on Kokkare Bellur in Bangalore including an external link to a news papper artcile about the organisation working in that village to protect the nesting site. Can you please have a look and let me know if its ok to have link there. -(WT-en) anurag 04:23, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

I did a little copyedit on the section about Kokkare Bellur in the Bangalore article. I moved the external link to be a note beside the activity of MAN - because it is probably a primary source for information, unless MAN have their own website about this project. However, it would be better if the whole section moved to its own article. Indeed, the whole Bangalore article seems to be getting overburdened with information about other places, not Bangalore. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:29, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

Poteau

It is a 45 minute drive to the top of Cavanal Hill. I suggest this is really a "Do" and not a "See". I should have maybe added that the trip takes that long. If you want to "See" Cavanal Hill, that can be done from about a 75 mile radius. I can see the hill from Fort Smith, Arkansas and it is about a 45 minute drive from the base of the hill. Can this not be put under "Do"? I hope to add a picture of the hill sometime in the future. If I am wrong on this, please let me know. (WT-en) Xltel 10:42, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

I put the listing for Cavanal Hill under the See section because it was talking about the view from the top, and the See section was empty, while the Do section had two listings. Also most natural scenery gets described under the See section, while taking a Walk etc. amongst the scenery gets put under the Do section. I checked both the Project:article templates and Project:Where you can stick it and find that there is no hard and fast rule! Also I had not realised there was such an effort to get there, thinking it was just a simple as you are driving by thing. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:07, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

You are the Admin, so will go with what you want, but I have to say Poteau is a very small town and you can "see" Cavanal Hill from anywhere in the town, but if you drive to the top I am going to say anybody that does that is going to consider that a "Do". [4] [5] Of course I lived there for 27 years and I guess I see and do things differently the the rest of the world. ha! (WT-en) Xltel 16:11, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

Just because I have Admin rights does not mean I have any greater say than anyone else. I would be quite happy to go with Do for Cavanal Hill if someone puts up a good counterargument. Also, anyone can do most of what I am doing. All that Admin rights give me is the ability to protect or delete a page and block users. Almost everything else I do could be done by anybody, even by anonymous users, though users do need to log on to do the page moves and get their signatures to work right. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:04, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

My reference to Admin was more as a "Elder" or someone closely in tune with the goals and objectives. We will leave it as is, but if you ever are in Poteau and take the 45 minute drive up and 45 minute drive down, my guess is you will think it was a pretty big Do. ha! (WT-en) Xltel 17:29, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

How can I help?

Hey, thanks for proofreading the St Helens (England) article. That's the first guide I've made.. and that's my hometown I chose to write it on, so I guess I know what I'm talking about! Thing is, being new, I didn't really know what I was doing, so if you could let me know how I can improve the page further than "usable" I'll see what I can do. My digital camera's bust at the moment or else I'd have been happy to add photos. I'm lost without it! Thanks (WT-en) BarrY 20:18, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

Normally I try and give a welcome message to people when they make their first edit of an article, or create a new page. You were so quick off the mark and the St Helens (England) article was so good, I thought you were an old hand. I only left the article as usable because the listings were brief and did not have all the contact details, such as telephone numbers, only external links. I asked myself, could I use this article as my only source of information about St Helens? The answer was no because I would need to go look up the websites to make a reservation - or knock on the door and ask - if I was on the road and did not have on-line access. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:52, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

Ah, I see. Right, well first chance I get I'll expand it with more information and contact details. And hopefully some photos too. And thanks for the advice and the welcome! I've been reading around and looking at previous articles before I started my first one just so I knew what I was doing. It's fun, and I'll probably be able to contribute a fair bit with a few places. Thanks for the tips, and I'll see you around! (WT-en) BarrY 21:15, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

Help

I've just uploaded two images: 'Swansea Bay and University' and 'Mumbles Head and Swansea Bay'. They both need to go onto the Swansea article. The former on top, near 'Understand' and the latter next to the 'See' section. I cannot find how to move the images to the page. May I request your help? Thanks a lot. (WV-en) Windhorse 12 Jan 06

The images appear to have been scanned using the full platten of the scanner, not cropped to just the scan of the photograph.
When you put the images on the page they need to have the .jpg on the end.
The Project:Image policy suggests images be about 50 kb in size, so they download quicker.

PS Sign your posts with ~~~~ and you do not need to type your signature all the time. -- (WT-en) Huttite 01:39, 12 Jan 2006 (EST)

Thanks. I'll look to change the scanning method when I get the chance. (WT-en) WindHorse 12 Jan 06

Sorry for dumping those images on you, but I didn't have more time to play with them today, and was planning to take a look at the situation tomorrow. Anyway, now you've completed everything. Thanks a lot. I appreciate your help. Yeah, the images are not great, but I think they are acceptable until someone comes along with something better. (WT-en) WindHorse 12 Jan 06

Open directory?

Hi, sorry about this, but you added a link to Greater Manchester to an open directory. Sorry to be a pain in the neck but what's this? I couldn't find anything on it in the help files and I'm curious. I'm just willing to learn! Cheers (WT-en) BarrY 07:13, 12 Jan 2006 (EST)

See Project:Links to Open Directory. The Open Directory Project (ODP) is a website with the sublime mission of categorising all websites using human editors. Because Humans do it better. It was founded by the good people at Netscape and is called DMOZ after Mozilla, an early web-browser. If you have ever used Google and wanted to submit a URL it directs you to submit the URL to ODP, along with pretty much every other search engine on earth.

Search engines use ODP as a base for categorising websites. If your website is not in the Open Directory Project, search engines will have a hard time finding it. Which is why spammers want to put links on any wiki they find, because google loves wikis and ODP hates spammers and only gives them one link per website.

Wikivoyage links to ODP appear in the box called Other languages/sites in the left hand sidebar, below the Navigation, Search and Toolbox boxes. Wikivoyage links to ODP help people find the related websites to a place and help search engines correctly categorise and rank ODP pages. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:59, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)

Kiribati

hey huttie.

Thank you for contributing to Kiribati. Though is running the thing you should do when faced of an armed person? You might get shot in the back! -- Huttite 16:42, 5 Jan 2006 (EST)

better than getting shot in the front!

From everything I have read about being faced with armed offenders. If an armed offender is going to shoot you they will have by the time you hear the gunshot and then suddenly realise someone has a gun and they are shooting at you. If someone lets you see they have a gun it is unlikely they are going to shoot you. They are there to terrorize and intimidate you. You should stay very calm and very still, as they will probably be on a hair trigger and shoot you at the slightest movement. You won't have time to even turn around before getting shot. It is better to co-operate and await a good opportunity to run or walk away without being shot - better yet be aware and do not put yourself into an armed situation in the first place. If they are after your money or property they probably don't want to risk putting a bullet in the booty any way but will if surprised. If they have gotten what they want they will probably let you go unharmed. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:13, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

Eiheiji Temple

Hi Huttite. I received this message on my talk page:

I moved Eiheiji Temple to Eiheiji, see Talk:Eiheiji Temple. I also corrected the spelling of Eiheiji (it was Eiheji). Please check this article as I changed the emphasis from th temple as a destination to the village as a destination with the temple as an attraction. See Project:What is an article.

Thanks for correcting my spelling. However, I probably didn't explain well, but the village outside Eiheiji Temple is basically a line of shops and a few hotels serving visitors to the monastery. It is definitely not an attraction, and I think historically it didn't exist. Eiheiji is in a very isolated part of Japan, so any visitors making the effort to get there will do so to see the monastery itself, not the concrete village outside. Anyway, I'll leave it up to you to decide the title for the article. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

I was wrong. According to Wikipedia, "as of 2003 Eiheiji town has an estimated population of 6,520". It has been many years since I visited the area, and maybe I passed through in meditational bliss and didn't see the town. Definitely, the sole attraction there is the temple, but the town is bigger than I thought and so could be used as a title. Anyway, as I said earlier, I leave the decision up to you. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

Würzburg

There is no such place as Wurzburg. It's Würzburg or if you don't wantthe umlet, it's Wuerzburg (WT-en) Kingjeff 22:14, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

Copy of my reply on Talk:Würzburg -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:05, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

English usage is made by people using words wrongly and making spelling mistakes. It might be a mistake if one person makes it, but what if everyone does, or accepts it? I know of no single authority that determines what is and is not correct English usage. For example: Americans drop the letter U if it appears after O from many words. However, I consider that an incorrect spelling, but it is still acceptable English.

I consider Wurzburg to be similar. It may be incorrect to you, but for many English speakers who are unfamiliar with German, they will see Wurzburg and Würzburg as alternate spellings of the same word - in English - even if it is incorrect in German. Likewise spelling Würzburg as Wuerzburg will not be seen as alternate spellings of the same word, even though they are intended to be phonetically equivalent. Essentially ü = u to many English speakers.

Please be aware that many English speakers come with cultural baggage (call it ignorance if you want) that simply strips off all the diacritics and just substitues a similar looking letter from the English alphabet. This is because the spelling of many English words bears little or no relationship to their pronounciation, unlike many other languages. In spoken English, speakers often learn how to pronounce each unfamiliar word from hearing others say the word, or through phonetic spelling systems. In effect English has developed into two parts, a written language and a spoken language, and in the written language the diacritics are a nusance because they are too hard to type, so they are dropped for a similar looking letter, not a similar sounding combination. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:05, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

Zlatibor

Hi there, Huttite. You've recently marked the article Zlatibor as an outline. Could you please tell me why is it outline and what should I do to improve it? --(WT-en) Ђорђе Д. Божовић 18:31, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

To be a usable article, a city travel guide needs to have details on how to get in, as well as at least one restaurant listing and one hotel listing. Otherwise, people can't realistically use the guide to travel to the destination. The listings should have at least an address and preferably a phone number.

Obviously, listings for lots of hotels and restaurants and things to do are preferable, but we have to have at least one of each to do a basic visit.

For more info, see article status. --(WT-en) Evan 18:35, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Oh, thank you. I'm new to Wikivoyage, so I didn't know that. I don't have much time now, but I shall certainly improve the article soon. --(WT-en) Ђорђе Д. Божовић 18:43, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Dengue

Reverted edit of 203.151.141.194, changed back to last version by 69.231.159.221 - just curious - why?

Basically Wikivoyage is not a medical encyclopaedia, see Talk:Dengue fever and Project:Manual of style. The version of the article read like something out of a medical text book. We are writing here for travellers not doctors. And I also thought the previous version was marginally more accurate (if more general) and helpful too! Note: Dengue fever is present in Queensland, Australia - which the country/continent list of the medical version omitted. -- (WT-en) Huttite 14:38, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

Excellent re-write, big improvement overall - cheers.

Quite simple really. Just a matter of laying each paragraph out side by side and distilling the important stuff into the friendly active voice rather than the scientific passive voice. It was all there, it just needed to be said right. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:10, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

Image copyright

I do have permission to use images from the web masters of that site ([6]) and these sites: [7] and [8], but I don't know how to mark that. Could you also tell me how to mark that I am creator of an image? Btw, I see that you don't use any categories here (Special:Categories - there are none), and I'm wondering why? --(WT-en) George D. Bozovic 11:54, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

Oh, yes, there's also another thing I'm wondering about. Why did you remove the external links from Zlatibor? I saw many articles containing external links on the bottom of the page. --(WT-en) George D. Bozovic 12:07, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

My response is also on your talk page: I will address each issue or question in the order they were asked.

Permission from web masters to use images. It is all very well to have a webmaster give you permission, but unless they are also the copyright holder then the permission is invalid. The website that some of your images came from does not say that the images can be re-used by anyone. Also, while the web masters may have given you permission to use the images, have they given everyone else in the world the same permission? Because that is what needs to be done if the images are published on Wikivoyage. See Project:Image policy for details.
Marking images with copyright details. On each image page there is a text page that allows you to give details about the image. You should say on that page, for each image. (a) Who holds the copyright. (or who is the photographer?) (b) Who gives permission to publish the image on Wikivoyage. (Who did you contact? Contact Details - Name, Address, Telephone, Website, Email, etc. - if they are not a Wikivoyage User) (c) Where the image came from, if it came from another website. (d) Date (year) of the image being produced. (e) The copyright release or reuse conditions that permits the image to be used on Wikivoyage. (f) What the image is about. Note: (a) and (b) should normally be the same people. See Project:Image policy for details.
If you created an image, the previous point can be addressed by a statement like [Image description] Taken by [username] on [date]. Released under [copyright licence/release description], though if you say you took the photograph then we will assume you understand that it is released under the CC-by-SA 1.0 licence. See Project:Image policy for details.
Categories. We do not use categories on Wikivoyage because they are not very useful for us and we haven't agreed on a use that is worthwhile, yet. See Project:Categories.
External links. We used to have an External links section but found that people kept putting all the wrong sorts of links in them and none of the right sort. This left our article incomplete and ugly, because they just became link farms because people did not understand how the external links should be presented. So we decided to remove the section from our standard templates. As we only did this recently and there were about 5000 articles with these sections in them already, we still haven't found them all and removed them, yet. (And people keep adding them because they haven't caught up with the change.) We can list all the attractions with a website link assoiated with each, so there is no need for a separate external links section - unlike Wikipedia. If someone is wanting to put an external link in that does not fit into our articles then either they are not listing the right information or we do not need the information anyway, because it doesn't meet our goals. As we can also be a printed guide, we need the information here, not at the end of a web-link, which cannot be seen on paperr or off-line. See Project:Article templates and Project:External links.

I hope that answers your questions. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:12, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

Thank you very much. --(WT-en) George D. Bozovic 17:40, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Greetings from Bolivia

Hello Huttite. Thanks for the welcome. If you had a doubt about my country I'd be glad to answer any question about it. Also if you need a photo from a special place. You just have to tell me. I saw the spanish version of WikiTravel. It looks kind of empty. There is lots of work to do. Let me join to the number of your editors there :) Regards (WT-en) Alhen 08:34, 11 March 2006 (EST

Copyright question

Found a great photo for Rail travel in North America, however, I'm unsure if WikiTravel's copyright organization will allow me to add this photo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Amtrak_139_south_across_Central.jpg

Will you check it out for me? Thanks. (WT-en) Sapphire 00:50, 25 March 2006 (EST)

Welcome back

Seems like you deserve to be welcomed back after your break so "Welcome back!" (WT-en) Sapphire 05:28, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

Thank you. I took a break to cope with a change in my full time job and becoming a part time student at the same time. Leaves very little time for doing other things, like Wikivoyage. I thought I should drop in this evening since I had some free time since it is a semester break at present. But I might only be around for a few days, as I have another assignment due next week, and work is just about to get busy again... -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:06, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

It's great to see you back for the time you have. --(WT-en) Evan 06:17, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

ditto on the welcome back, good to see you around again!! (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 07:22, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

Good to see you again

It's nice to see old friends every once in a while. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. I hope things are going well with your studies. --(WT-en) Evan 19:54, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

I passed my first semester paper! Just dropped in today because I had some spare time as I had to take a day's leave while the office was relocated to a new building. I could work on my second paper's second assignment, due Monday, study for a "Quiz", next Wednesday, or spend a few hours here being a wikignome .... as stress relief. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:04, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

I have to admit that doing lots of microtasks is extremely relaxing. --(WT-en) Evan 20:09, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

For me this is a bit like weeding the garden, only I say warm and my hands dont get covered in dirt. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:15, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

Ditto on the welcome back... Good to see you again! -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 01:11, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Long Island

The Long Island associated with Frenchboro was formally called Outer Long Island. It has nothing to do with with the Long Island in Cumberland County near Portland. The two places are entirely different. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 22:10, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for clearing that up. It was not clear from the articles and this distinction probably needs to be explained better. To avoid people, like me, making silly mistakes, or, worse, misleading the traveler. -- (WT-en) Huttite 22:15, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Deletion policy

Just to update you on changes that have happened in the past few months, if there is a clear consensus to keep an article then it can be removed from vfd in less than 14 days. All articles that were nominated on vfd should have the VFD discussion archived on the appropriate Project:Votes for deletion/Archives page, and pages that are kept should also have the discussion archived on the article's talk page. Additionally, there is a bit more leeway now for admins to delete obvious articles prior to fourteen days - see the Project:Deletion policy for the latest updates. -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:54, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Understood, and thanks for updating me. I was merely observing that after 14 days there now appeared to be consensus to keep Long Island (Maine) and suggesting the discussion be move to the talk page. I was not advocationg a breach of the Project:Deletion policy, but testing the feeling for following the policy and removing and archiving the listing. -- (WT-en) Huttite 23:15, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't think you were breaching policy in any way, I just wanted to let you know that there have been some updates in the time that you've been gone, especially the policy of now archiving all deletion discussions (on the article's talk page AND in the deletion archives for kept articles). By all means, go ahead and end the VFD for Long Island (Maine) as it looks like there's a consensus to keep it. -- (WT-en) Ryan 23:46, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

New_Zealand#Tour_Operators

Hi,

I had a look at the New Zealand page but the list of tour operators is rather short and nothing comparable like Wayward or Adventure tours in Australia. DMOZ has a lot but unorganised and can't see what is good or not. Do you have a recommendation or a site to look? (WT-en) Jan 10:34, 8 August 2006 (EDT)

Sorry about the delay in responding. I have not been visiting here recently, so missed your message.

One thing about New Zealand is that there are so many operators that cater for different things that tourists want to do that it is difficult to select just a few that are good at everything. It totally depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. Many tourists tour the country on their own. What is it you want to do in New Zealand? - (WT-en) Huttite 03:05, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks for your response, better late than never! I look for a tour operator which does 6-8 days tours over each of the islands and brings me to the main attractions (geysirs, Milford Sound etc). I look more for younger environnement (average below 30) and i like to see the nature in it's beauty. Camping is ok but i prefer dorm. Wayward/Adventure tours have mini busses (max 21 people), the program include hikes, inside tips. I don't need city tours because that I can do on my own feet.... Therefore a tour operator that is backpacker oriented but not dirty cheap or posh would be perfect. (WT-en) Jc8136 14:33, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Here are some websites to look at:

http://www.intercitycoach.co.nz/map.asp - Inter-City are a bus service rather than operating tours, as such. But they will allow you to get to pretty much any New Zealand tourist destination. You will probably need to organise your own accommodation though. The last time I used them, for a 30 minute trip between Picton and Blenheim, I found their rates competitive with other bus companies. The driver provided commentary on points of interest and history that you would expect on a tour buses. They even give students a discount!
http://www.magicbus.co.nz/ - Magic Bus are a backpacker orientated bus operator. I have not used them, but their green buses have been around for quite a few years now so they must be doing something right. They advertise a number of accomodation providers on their website, so they may be able to put together a package for you.
http://www.kiwiexperience.com/ - Kiwi Experience are also backpacker orientated bus operator and they have been in business for over 15 years. It's not clear from their website if their tours also include accommodation, though it looks like it, so ask.
http://www.straytravel.com/ - Stray Travel also look like they are worthwhile tour operator for backpackers and they are clear about accommodation reservations.
To cross Cook Strait you will need to use either the Interislander or Bluebridge ferries (unless you want to fly). There are several sailings each way, daily. If you want to save money, pack your own lunch, etc. Meal prices on board are similar to some of the downtown Wellington cafes. In Wellington, the there is a free bus from the railway station (Platform 9) to the Interislander ferry terminal door, as the ferry terminal is 1.5 km from the station. (While the Bluebridge ferry berth is opposite the railway station, it is probably a longer walk as a result.)

I hope that gets you started. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:17, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Admin nomination

I've nominated User:(WT-en) Cacahuate to become an admin; please comment on Project:administrator nominations when you have some time. --(WT-en) Evan 01:26, 6 January 2007 (EST)

CotW unscheduled nominations are getting a bit thin!

We could do with a few more suggestions for articles that could be future CotWs, so if you know of any please be sure to add them to the list! Thanks -- (WT-en) Tim (writeme!) 08:02, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

The Bet

Well, if the person in question is in South Africa, it's no problem. Just stop by Pietermaritzburg and look me up. If they're elswhere, we can probably work something out via PayPal.

BUT! It must be plausible, as per the original conditions of the bet.

(WT-en) ManicParroT 10:46, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

I assume this is the bet about the Marmots and the foamy Beer. You probably should direct this to (WT-en) Evan -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:01, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Explaining low level of activity in 2008

I was not very active in 2008, as I was busy studying, working, representing myself in court, caring for family members because their normal caregiver was recovering from a severe illness and coping with the bereavement of a close family member. I have found it difficult to even be at home, let alone turn on my computer, hence the long delay in responding to The Bet (above). But I discovered a tip that couch surfers may find useful:

To sleep comfortably on a couch you need to sleep on your side with your knees bent and use all the cushions to raise your head so the spine is straight.

Blanket stability
1. Fold the blanket in half lengthwise.
2. Drape it over the couch seats with the fold to the back of the couch and excess hanging over only one of the arm rests, (the one where you are going to put your feet).
3. Open the blanket out and then put the cushions at the end where you are going to lay your head.
4. Lie down on couch and pull blanket back over body.
5. Try to sleep.

Unless you get up, the blanket won't fall off your body no mattter how much you move around.

I hope someone can get a better night's sleep because of this learning. - (WT-en) Huttite 03:01, 13 January 2009 (EST)

You are missed. Be well. -- (WT-en) Colin 03:10, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks. My, how time has flown! I had not realised it had been 18 months since I last edited here (as a logged on user) - I must have been busy.... -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:13, 13 January 2009 (EST)

I second Colin's sentiments. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 03:18, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Actually I have dropped in and edited here, anonymously, every now and then. I do recall editing Scott Island, on 21 December 2008, according to the page history. I just went back and made it a stub. Looks like there is a lot of clean-up work to do on all those orphaned and dead end pages. Perhaps I should log in in the future. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:32, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Great minds think alike

Hey, glad you're back with us. Please have a look at my answer to your proposal. (WT-en) Texugo 10:09, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Indeed, what a comeback, if I didn't suspect you were a guy, I'd kiss you. All the help is greatly appreciated. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 03:49, 27 January 2009 (EST)

. . . . . (lost for words) - (WT-en) Huttite 04:19, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Fresh & Wild Bristol

Fresh and Wild shut down in early 2008. That is why I removed it. (WT-en) Jezhotwells 21:23, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks for that information. It just needed to be documented, on the Bristol talk page, why the removal took place, as unjustified removals could be interpreted as being anti-competitive. Just noting it in the comment notes is not always enough. If you make lots of edits to a page then all your changes can be viewed as a single difference, and the intermediate notes are not displayed. On this occasion I missed your note, as I was at the end of a late night session in front of the keyboard. Sorry about that. - (WT-en) Huttite 21:36, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Redirection

Hi. I couldn't help but notice on the Votes for deletion page your tendency to vote for redirection even for less likely search terms. I just want to point out the slippery slope some of your votes imply. For example, if it became standard policy to allow redirect for things like Antique Shopping in San Diego, we could we then disallow the inevitable overzealous user who would sit and create hundreds of permutations of redirects to their favorite destination?:

If it were policy, your vote to redirect a hotel name would be opening an even bigger can of worms, allowing for tens or even hundreds more redirects per city article. This one is already explicity against policy, and I, for one, do not want to go there, because I don't want to have to police the messy results. Please reconsider your stance on this. I'm copying this to Project:Votes for deletion, so that others can comment as well, so please reply there. Thanks!(WT-en) Texugo 21:45, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Call me a preservationist or a conservative, if you like. I fail to see the need to ever delete any wiki page that is not either (i) totally off topic and has no hope of redirection, (ii) spam, (iii) a copyright violation (iv) is offensive or (v) causes a technical issue or problem. The deleted pages are still kept in the database and can be recovered at any time, so deleting them doesn't save any database space. Making them redirects could improve the chance of anyone finding the San Diego page in response to the search term, as it gets more links to it. Redirect also reduce the chances of people finding the other articles. Also, a quick check of the English language will show that there are only so many permutations of words and spellings before things become quite stupid, by the time things reached that point I would conceed that it is probably spam intended for search engine optimisation, and deletion would then be justified. If things got to the stage you suggest then deletion would start to be an option, but just one or two links are not near that stage, yet. - (WT-en) Huttite 04:47, 2 February 2009 (EST)

User talk:213.4.59.70

Actually, this user has registered an account, although he still sometimes makes edits when logged out. I was linking to the registered account talk page so that other users would understand that edits from this ip are from the same user. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 08:07, 25 February 2009 (EST)

I noticed that. However, I think a message to the user directly on his anonymous talk page might start to grab his attention, since he obviously isn't reading his user talk page, and we may be dealing with more than one person - possibly. - (WT-en) Huttite 08:11, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Re: Cap Haitien

Apologies for any duplication. The link at Haiti was a redlink to Cap-Haïtien, which was why I created the article. --(WT-en) Jbmurray 18:40, 28 February 2009 (EST)

No apologies needed - glad you found it - now we can improve it. - (WT-en) Huttite 18:45, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Red Bank?

it's an area in South Portland, Maine could you possibly try something here also there might be other red banks? disamb? --(WT-en) SkunkService 05:01, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Wikipedia:Red Bank suggests there are at least 4 places called Red Bank. You could move the existing Red Bank article to a suitably named alternative that follows our conventions. Then disambiguate the different Red Bank articles. I suggest you discuss it first at Talk:Red Bank, explaining what the problem is and, if possible, propose a solution. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:21, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Copyright

Hi yes, the article about Široki Brijeg is a copy from wikipedia. A mostly edited by myself. GNGU free documentation licence does allow even such copies.Right???--(WT-en) Anto 09:52, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

If you are the only person who wrote it, yes. If even one other person edited it there on Wikipedia, then no. (WT-en) Texugo 19:04, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

Well that, or you go back in the history and find a version where you are the only editor, if there is one --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 19:18, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

Please continue the discussion on User talk:(WT-en) Quahadi. - (WT-en) Huttite 04:20, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

Help with Nova Scotia

Huttite please help. The listings for Nova Scotia are very confused geographically. There is tons of current overlap between counties, regions, and cities. Locally, counties are really not treated as very important, but tourism regions are. See my comment at the Nova Scotia discussion page. For example, Yarmouth is no longer part of the South Shore region and to divide this region by counties doesn't really help anyone. I'm too new at this to really make such a big change without further advice. troutpoint--(WT-en) Troutpoint 08:30, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Replied and discussed on Talk:Nova Scotia. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Sondrio

I have put forward a suggestion for the sub-regions of Sondrio (Province) if you want to give it a look. --(WT-en) HJ.Phillips94 13:42, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

False copyright info on photograph uploaded by your member

I found this image http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Image:Zlatibor.jpg#file at Wikivoyage. Image info says that image was posted to Wikivoyage by Ђорђе Д. Божовић (http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:%D0%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%92%D0%B5_%D0%94._%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B) and that he is specified as an author. Further, it is specified that image is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0.

This is all false information, except that he did upload the image.

I am an actual author of the image. I never gave Ђорђе Д. Божовић or anybody else any approval of using this image, thus I never gave approval of publishing this image at Wikivoyage nor I ever approved publishing this image under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 licence. Finally, I was never informed that this image is published at Wikivoyage.

According to information on Wikivoyage, this image was published at January, 16th, 2006. Therefore Wikivoyage is using my intellectual property without my approval for more than three years. According to law I am entitled to fair compensation for usage of my intellectual property for this period of time.

Please provide sufficent information to whom I may send the bill. You may also send your offer for compensation which I may or may not accept.

Your payment for compensation does not give you any rights for further usage of this image. It will just cover your usage until now. You are requested to offer fair compensation for it's further usage, or to remove image from this site and stop using it anywhere else if you do use it.

Removing this image from the site now, does not relieve you from obligation to pay compensation for its usage up to now.

You may contact me at http://pedja.supurovic.net/kontakt/

If you asked me before publishing the image, my reaction would not be like it is now. -24 April 2009—The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 91.150.127.112 (talk • contribs)

→ User talk:(WT-en) Ђорђе Д. Божовић#False_copyright_info_on_photograph_uploaded_by_you --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 00:01, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

I notice the image has now been deleted. Since it is the usert that uploaded the image that vouched (s)he had rights to publish then you should take your dispute up with that person. By making a false claim about rights, the uploader deceived Wikivoyage too. - (WT-en) Huttite 00:24, 16 May 2009 (EDT)

Please don't redirect to shared

Hello, redirecting to shared is a problem to inter-language link maintenance by bot. This is not a BOT error, so please don't do that. Thanks. -- (WT-en) Tatata 04:38, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

Hi

Hey, Huttie, The Israeli Wikivoyage page looks great and it's nice to see a lot of people contributing to the page with their various knowledge about Israel. Really though, it's thanks to people like you who monitor the pages clean from false statements to keep it from becoming targeted by attacks. It is shocking sometimes to see how Wikipedia and other Wikimedia sites can be used to defame things, but luckily, it gets fixed fast. :)

(WT-en) Daniel Hoz 14:56, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

Christchurch

Hey there Kiwi, I've nominated Christchurch for DoTM, wondering if you know enough about the town clean/beef it up a little per the discussion. I don't mind doing the tedious work of formatting the listings properly, but I've never been to New Zealand, so any other clean up, and adding any missing information, is a bit hard. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 22:06, 18 October 2009 (EDT)

Articles in Korean

Hello!

I'm ja:User:(WT-ja) Tatata though I'm using another account now. Currently, I'm operating a (WT-en) bot to maintain inter-language links. I've noticed that you are adding inter-language link (ko:) from en's articles written in Korean to ko's articles. I think that these links will mess up the maintenance by bot when those articles are actually created on ko: in the future. So, please stop it. Thanks. -- (WT-en) Tatata7 05:15, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Frankly, I don't care if putting ko: and en: interlanguage links on Korean language articles in the English Wikivoyage will mess up the BOT. The BOT should be smart enough to know that it should not link to an en: article on en: as that is an inappropriate use of the interlanguage links. Also, when those Korean language articles are created on ko: then the articles should be deleted from en: and in the meantime the articles should be excluded from BOT scanning. Also, without the edits I have made these Korean article appear as dead end pages. Find away to stop the BOT because I won't stop putting interlanguage links on that I think are useful. Sorry. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:36, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Admin nom

Please comment on Sabino434's nomination. Thanks. -- 94.75.123.43 14:59, 5 November 2009 (EST)

delete my pic?

Hi, you ve welcome me thats why I write you. A picture I ve uploaded in No 2007 is proposed for deletion? You know why? (WT-en) Fabzgy 16:52, 7 December 2009 (EST)

If you read Project:Votes for deletion/April 2008 you will see that the reason that the image was proposed for deletion was because a user challenged the lack of copyright licence information accompanying the image. However, after considering the copyright policy fully, the decision was to keep these images because they were deemed to be properly licenced. Somebody then forgot to follow up and document the decision against the image and didn't remove the VfD tag. - (WT-en) Huttite 03:51, 8 December 2009 (EST)

neiafu or vava'u

Having put a lot of work into Vava'u in the past two days you can imagine that I am not well pleased to see what you have done to the page. Vava'u is a group of islands, of which Neiafu is the capital. I believe that Neiafu should be merged into Vava'u, not the other way round. For such a small area it doesn't make sense to have two separate articles. Several of the hotels listed are on islands and are not in Neiafu. All the things to do, which I was going to list but am now thinking twice about, are out in the bay, not in Neiafu. (WT-en) Shep 07:37, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Please read Project:Geographical hierarchy and then think how to plunge forward. Discuss this on the Talk:Vava'u page. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:43, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Lake Trasimeno

Hi again. What is the point of providing a wikilink to a blank page? Seems to me that anyone following that link would just get pissed off with Wikivoyage. The Isola Polvese page provides less info than is available on the Lake Trasimeno page. (WT-en) Shep 11:08, 27 December 2009 (EST)

Isola Polvese was an orphaned page that should have been linked into the geographical hierarchy. The Lake Trasimeno article seems the most logical place to link from. I think people would be more annoyed by the fact we had an article about Isola Polvese that nobody had thought to provide a link to it from Lake Trasimeno; I certainly was. Since anyone can edit a page, the lack of information is not a serious problem at the moment. If you think the Isola Polvese article is inadequate, please plunge forward and improve it.

To explain further. I am currently placing orphaned pages into the geographical hierarchy. I feel that linking to existing outline articles from their region pages is more important than making destination articles perfect before linking them. At least that way readers know these articles exist and can see each article in its regional context. These are works in progress and are liable to change.

In the case of Isola Polvese, I was faced with the problem of finding the best place to link this outline article. The Lake Trasimeno article is the relevant region article that Isola Polvese was identified as an Other destination - so it was the best article to link from.

Since you have questioned if that was the right thing to do, I took a closer look at the Lake Trasimeno article. I can see that it does not follow the Manual of style as the long descriptions for each destination which need to be shortened to one line listings and it also has sleep listings for several destinations. Over time I would expect those listings to migrate to their destination articles, once they are written, as should also happen with the information about Isola Polvese in the Lake Trasimeno article.

Please note that region guides and other destination guides, such as city and park guides, perform different functions in Wikivoyage's geographical hierarchy. A region guide provides an overview of the destinations in the region, while the city and park destination guides provide the details. This is so that the region guide is not too cluttered with minute details. One implication is that region guides do not usually have a Sleep section, as Sleep listings appear only once each in the respective end destinations. Since being able to sleep there is a minimum criteria for an article, the logical consequence is that the sleep section is redundant in the region guide. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:41, 28 December 2009 (EST)

Lake Trasimeno

There has been a lengthy and unresolved discussion on this topic at Project:Bodies of water. Wikivoyagers seem to be split between people like you and Texugo who seem to attach a lot of importance to structure and people like me and Peter Fitzgerald who believe that there can be no hard and fast rules and that rules are made to be broken where appropriate to the local situation. The rules cannot possibly take into account all possible scenarios. Isola Polvese is a little island in the middle of a fairly small lake. In Lake Trasimeno I think I have said all that really needs to be said about it in Wikivoyage. My recommendation would be to delete the page on Isola Polvese. It just isn't needed.(WT-en) Shep 10:51, 28 December 2009 (EST)

You raise several issues in the above plea. I think the issues need to be teased out and dealt with separately.

Firstly, I do not think that there would be consensus to delete the Isola Polvese article, for the following reasons.

It is probably a valid destination article.
Even if it is not a valid destination, it is certainly an attraction of Lake Trasimeno.
As a minimum it can be merged with and redirected to Lake Trasimeno.

It would also be most helpful if the specific discussion about the need for an article like Isola Polvese was started and continued on Talk:Isola Polvese.

Second, I have no problem with bodies of water names being used for regions surrounding, in, or even under, those bodies of water. The problem arises where the article is about the water, not the land.

Third, some structure and rules are helpful and we have a Project:Manual of style that most people seem to agree is a good idea to follow. I believe I am following those guidelines, not rules. If you think I am wrong for doing that then please gain consensus for new or different Project:Community policies that meet your needs, and I will try and follow them too!

Lastly, it would be a good idea to plunge forward and devote your efforts to improving the Lake Trasimeno region and do something with the Isola Polvese before somebody else does. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:04, 28 December 2009 (EST)

Sub-regionalising Cambodia

Hi there. I am wondering why you have inserted a sub-regional level into Eastern Cambodia? I am very sure that the country does not require this extra level, and if you think it does, would it not be best to discuss on the country talk page first? If you look at the regionlist table on the country page it is clear that it goes Cambodia -> Region -> City/OD. The provinces are listed in each regional article to avoid any confusion. Also at Eastern Cambodia you have wikilinked the provinces to existing city articles. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:59, 3 January 2010 (EST)

I noted that you reverted the edit of User:(WT-en) Killersnack who attempted to place Sen Monorom into the Cambodia city listings, without then attempting to relocate the new, and now orphaned, article into a better location. Nor did you personally explain to User:(WT-en) Killersnack what was wrong. Another administrator later reverted a second edit by that user to the Cambodia page. To me it seems the Cambodia page is now closed to new cities and the regions now need to be built out upon.

With Eastern Cambodia, I merely to linked to the names given to the regions, if the cities have the same names as their provinces then there should be a disambiguation page or something else mentioned there to indicate that there is ambiguousness. In any case, I suspect from your comments that you have no desire to build out those provinces at this time. I built out the province for Sen Monorom so that the breadcrumb listing would display correctly and because I perceived the place might not find a home anywhere else.

Lastly, Project:Plunge forward means there is no need to ask permission first, only forgivness afterwards. Sorry if I have upset your country scheme but there was nothing mentioned on Talk:Eastern Cambodia about why the regions were not wikilinked and I had thought it would help travelers to wikilink them. I had understood that this was also the implication of the Project:Geographical hierarchy.

Essentially because Sen Monorom exists as valid article, Mondulkiri and the other provinces also need to exist as articles if you are going to limit the number of cities in Cambodia, and its regions, to 9. Otherwise, where can they be placed? - (WT-en) Huttite 05:49, 3 January 2010 (EST)

First, I really did not say that permission is needed to do anything! Rather, I inquired as to why you thought another regional level was required. I do think (and this is backed up by normal practice here) that regionalisation of a country should be discussed and fully understood before structural changes are made.

My fault with Sen Monorom - it should have been added to the city list at Eastern Cambodia when I removed it from the 9 (that is not a limit I impose by the way - it is Wikivoyage policy). Apologies for that. I did leave a comment with the edit as to why it was reverted. It is simply impossible to inform each user why their edit has been reverted but I do often leave a comment in the edit history.

There may be a time when we have too many cities for the four Cambodia region articles, but we are far from that at the moment. If further regionalised, Eastern Cambodia for example, would have four provincial articles with only four cities between them! Sen Monorom's correct home in the structure is as part of Eastern Cambodia. The other reason not to do this based simpy on provinces is that the provinces themsleves are split in some cases. For example, you will see if you look closely that Kratie Province to the east of the Mekong River is in Eastern Cambodia, and to the west of the river it is in Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains. Sometimes geography is much much appropriate than political lines when regionalising.

The other place to put any cities which you fear will be orphaned is into the country regionlist table itself. You will see that there is a slot there for each city in each region. Cheers. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 07:11, 3 January 2010 (EST)

While I managed to correctly place Sen Monorom into Eastern Cambodia because I understood the basic Project:Geographical hierarchy, I think less experienced or new users might need more guidance and consideration. Many seem liable to plunge forward and create an article for a destination by linking it from any convenient page, either because they haven't found, read and understood the rules or come from Wikipedia, which does not have a rigid article template structure.

To help contributors, I think it better to link into all the articles that do, or should, exist for each hierarchical level. This is so that users can expand easily in the way we wish them to, rather than making it hard to create a new article, and name it badly to boot. Thus the country regionlist table should have all the cities we want to exist, even if they currently don't exist, listed and wikilinked. Similarly for places like Kratie Province, which should have 2 regions mentioned in the article, one for the portion that is east of the Mekong River that is also mentioned in Eastern Cambodia, and for the portion that is west of the river which should also be mentioned in Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains. The articles themselves do not need to be created, only mentioned and wikilinked. This provides growth pointers for future expansion directions.

Lastly, I note that when Sen Monorom was added to the regionlist, it was removed by another administrator/user. Is there any policy or criteria around what cities should be mentioned in country regionlists? - (WT-en) Huttite 09:12, 3 January 2010 (EST)

On your 2nd point, I would fundamentally disagree there. I really do not see how creating a whole bunch of red-linked articles (especially regions) is to anybody's benefit. For Cambodia for example this would mean creating 26 red-linked 2nd level regional articles that some day might be created (very unlikely). The existing four regional articles are already unloved and have no content other than what I put into them when the country was regionalised. And how does anyone decide which "cities we want to exist"?

On your 3rd point, I do not know of any policy other than changes to the 9+9 should be discussed on the country talk page.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:29, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Can we shift discussing sub-regionising Eastern Cambodia to Talk:Eastern Cambodia? I am about to open discussion there to avoid an edit war with you. Also, I will shortly begin a discussion on criteria for cities in the Cambodia country regionlist on Talk:Cambodia.

Hi there. Please could you have a look at Talk:Eastern_Cambodia#Sub-regionalisation. I would like to apply the proposed solution, but it would be nice to achieve full concensus beforehand. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:42, 4 January 2010 (EST)

thank you.

Huttite. thank you for saving this! i was just fucking around earlier. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 72.87.62.96 (talk • contribs)

I think it was simply your good fortune that I discovered you had created Plainville and decided to clean up your graffiti before somebody else did. Now to follow through, I probably should welcome you as an anonymous user, and ask you to create an account, log on and become a real contributor. However, I think the timeframe has long since passed to do that. As I was unavoidably interupted at the critical time and have only got back to my computer 12 hours later, I think it would be wise to let sleeping dogs lie. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:17, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Thailand's provinces

Erm, there is a discussion right here. Globe-trotter is doing great work finally after many many years cleaning up the TAT dump mess, so could I ask you inquire before you revert? especially since Thailand is CoTM this month, it's a really complex piece work sorting all of this out, so reverts like this might mess up the system globe-trotter has set up on the talk pages keeping track of the tasks and progress. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 18:56, 3 February 2010 (EST)

I did check the discussion pages and edit history of Chachoengsao (province), Chachoengsao and Chachoengsao town. Those 3 article need to be merged and redirected together and the edit by Globe-trotter had orphaned Chachoengsao town. There was no mention that this edit was a result of the Thailand province reduction discussion and the cryptic comment suggested a page move or merger was intended rather than an edit that redirected a page without discussion. Without a discussion reference I didn't know what was going on and felt that this edit was potential vandalism, so more discussion was needed before a redirect was performed. The reason I reverted this particular redirect was a better approach would be to MOVE the article and credit all authors with contributions to a single common page. Ultimately, I have no problem with a single Chachoengsao article, and merging the province and city article seems like a good idea. It is just in this case the solution was incomplete and it seemed like vandalism. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:30, 3 February 2010 (EST)

I am slightly concerned. Did you think an administrator had vandalised the article? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:59, 3 February 2010 (EST)

I wasn't aware that User:(WT-en) Globe-trotter had administrator rights. My concern was that the simple redirect was an incomplete solution as 3 pages needed merging, but the simple redirect solition ignored this fact. - (WT-en) Huttite 16:51, 4 February 2010 (EST)

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