Wikivoyage:User ban nominations/Archive/User:Edmontonenthusiast

This is an archive of User:(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast's talk page.

Hello Edmontonenthusiast! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. Thank you for your enthusiastic work on Edmonton, and on Vancouver, Calgary and some other pages where I've seen your work. I admire your enthusiasm! (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 02:50, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Districts in Calgary

I saw you added some districts to Calgary#Understand. Please see the discussion in Talk:Calgary#Districts and Huge City?. I've removed that "Districts" section until there's a consensus on Talk. Please join the discussion there! Thank you, (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 02:50, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

A thankyou

Thank you to Jim for being so helpful! I like how you called me 'enthusiastic' heh! You are so helpful! (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:11, 22 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

Tone

Just a hint, you really really shouldn't be using capital letters as much as you do, it's the internet equivalent of shouting at someone (and not just like a HEY for catching the attention of someone), and most people (including me) find it to be rude. No, I'm not offended or anything, I'm pretty easy going :) But it's certainly not going to help you around here. (WT-en) Sertmann 21:38, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh I am so sorry, I already knew about that, but did not think it pertained to here. Thankyou, I won't do it again (Unless Necessary!).

(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 22:02, 22 October 2008 (EDT)Edmonton Enthusiast

Signature

Just a suggestion... your signature seems to be a bit goofy, it's adding your username twice... perhaps in your preferences you accidentally added your username again into one of the boxes? If you blank them, your signature will appear more normal, like this: (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:06, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Or, you can also add in something under "real name" in your prefs, so if you put Edmonton Enthusiast it will come out as: (WT-en) Edmonton Enthusiast 19:06, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Again, just a suggestion :) – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 21:09, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I don't get it...It may be because I am trying to relax, do a TON of WikiT stuff and do some Spanish homework...please try in simpler terms...also I'm new... (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 21:13, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

Nooo worries. Take a look at you signature, after your last comment. See how it starts out with your username (which is linked to your user page), then the time and date, and then, the strange part, it shows Edmontonenthusiast again, right after (EDT). See what I mean? Go to Special:Preferences, are "Real name" and "Nickname" blank? – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 22:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, they're blank... (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 22:07, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

Ok then, next question... When you sign your name on talk pages, are you typing anything other than 4 tildes (~~~~) ? You don't need to type your name or anything, just that, and it will do the rest – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 22:08, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh I did my name too....next¿ (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 22:13, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Aha! Well, the last one is perfect :) If you ever want to change it, you can add something in the "Real name" box in Special:Preferences – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 22:17, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanks! Can you look over Edmonton/Central and tell me if I am doign a good jon¿? (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 22:20, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

You should adjust the link in your signature to point to User:(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast rather than just Edmontonenthusiast, which is an article that doesn't exist ;) – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 22:10, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Ok, is there like a link at the bottom or something to make the sig turn colour like yours easier? also, i usually just do (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 23:08, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

A suggestion - you might want to remove the "Keep Smiling" from your signature, as that sentiment is often at odds with the comment you are posting. "You're an ass, keep smiling" comes across as both harsh and condescending; I think you were going simply for the former. There have been other examples where the "Keep smiling" made no sense in context. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:11, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Man are you ever ticking me off right now. Why did I orignally create the "Keep smiling"? Because I wanted to be cheery and help people feel better if they had a bad day (though I didn't know). And now, I still do it, despite the "not-so-cherry" comments, why, because I want to lighten the conversation from being so harsh and try to make the other person be more positive or anything. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:16, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Fair enough, just please remember that the "Keep Smiling" is there when you use your signature - for anyone who doesn't know that's part of your signature, seeing a comment that is essentially "you're an ass" followed immediately by a red "keep smiling" seems unusually harsh. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:52, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, and sorry for my harshness. How about a deal? I'll take it out of my auto signature, and then I will just have it how I did before where I'd have to type it? That way I can change it as much as I want to fit the comment? Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:55, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Good luck

Ok, I think i got you started now, so I'm gonna take a step back and let you work your magic. You can still ask of course, just don't expect me to respond on the hour to your questions in the future, it may even take a day or something - I have huge piles of work awaiting, doing my own articles and janitorial work, and I pretty much spend the whole evening getting you set - good luck with your writing :) and i look forward to seeing some completed districts, good to have another enthusiastic user around. (WT-en) Sertmann 21:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh thank you so much for using up some of your time. Did you see my nomination? Sorry for asking so much. Do stop by and look at my work, and comment in the discussion if you like :). (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 21:26, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

Work section

Hi there. To answer your question, I deleted the work section from the Edmonton article because the purpose of the section is to inform travellers of opportunities to make money while travelling, not to tell what kind of work is available for someone who might move there. The description in the article template says:

What possibilities are there for travellers to earn money in this city? Note that this is kind of long-range and probably won't be appropriate for most destinations.

Since you pointed it out, I deleted part of the Work section in the Calgary article too. Notice that what I left though are a few thing a travellers could do.

By the way, I do appreciate your enthusiasm and all the hard work you are doing. I hope you don't get too frustrated with those of us editing your work. We are just trying to make it more consistent with the Wikivoyage ideal. Keep up the good work. (WT-en) Texugo 03:53, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, Texugo, you are helping, but, can you check the Travellers pub, I think there is something about you, if not I think you could help! Its at the bottom, or near it (depending on when you look @ it it may not be at the bottom)! Thansk, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 12:25, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Longmont, CO

I added some more to it. --71.254.108.212 00:23, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh thats really good, I'm glad to see you editing so much, it makes me feel good! :) Maybe you should get an account, maybe? It's good seeing you edit such a neat little town! I really like Prospect New Town, hehe! (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 00:32, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

Edmonton map and other general comments

Hey Edmonton, doing an overview map of Edmonton that shows its districts and major roads isn't a problem. But two things first -- 1. You need to define the boundaries of each district first and give me an idea of what the major roads are, and 2. It takes time! Probably about 2-3 weeks, possibly more since I'm very busy with work right now. I'll probably release a first cut without streets just to get something up and add the roads and transit later.

I just did a bit of work on Edmonton/Central and I'll try to drop by a couple of times a week to help out. You've made a great start on the district articles and your writing style is pretty good. A couple of things I noted are:

the boundaries of each district should be defined somewhere at or near the start of the article so anyone reading the article will know where the district is in relation to the rest of the city
consistency with the Manual of style (or MoS) -- it's not such a big deal when an article is starting out, but as it progresses it's important that listings are consistent and complete (e.g., address, phone #, website, hours, admission cost). Obviously, not all listings will have this info, but if there's a website, it's good to get as much of the contact/admission info as possible. I formatted some of the Edmonton/Central#See listings as an example.
watch the length on some of restaurant/drink listings -- they shouldn't be more than a few lines

Anyway, keep up the effort. Edmonton looks a lot better already, but it's a huge project and will take some time. (WT-en) Shaund 20:25, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

(I am putting this in my talk page, as well) OH THANK YOU SHAUND...YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HAPPY YOU'VE MADE ME SERIOUSLY! OH THANK GOD! LOL...anyways I know you won't put roads in first but you need to put in the river and the city boundaries! OK? Thanks agaiN! I don't mind that it takes a few weeks, it's just a load off because I know I'd suck and I'm busy with the "written" part ;), plus other stuff I like to do (going out, Playing SimCity, hanging out with the people I love :)) this is just such a load off! Oh thank you Shaund! And I will add the districts borders to the main page and the districts, but how would you go about describing if say it is "bound by the north by one road, but then its northern side goes in a southwest direction on another road, then a east-west road again, just further south, etc."?¿ Thank you so much for the advice as well, I am working hard to get all of them USEABLE...then I will do the main article to fit the districts, then I'll be more specific to the manual of style and try and make 'em guides! Thank you for your edits as well, any edits are ALWAYS APPRECIATED. Once you answer my question about district borders, I'll set the borders up :)! Or what I could do is take a map from Open Street and just use that (because the major roads, which are borders are shown) and show you that, then you can make a good one (the OpenStreet one wouldn't really be good for this anyways ;)! Thanks so much Shaund. Just let me know when you are starting, how your progressing (if you want you can upload the incomplete image to show me ... ) and if you have any questions ;)! Thank you so much, by the way,Vancouver rocks! haha. It does, I'm serious, my third favourite city (Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver...). Heh, anywauy,s thanks! Also, are you learning any about Edmonton via these articles, if so, what in particular? Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 20:49, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

No worries, the river and city boundaries will be there. :-) As for borders, I'd prefer them written out; they should be for the district articles anyway. I recommend keeping them as simple (i.e., rectangular) as possible since it makes it easier to describe and follow. I think for one of the Vancouver districts I say the district's borders are 16th Ave to the south, Fir St to west, False Creek in the north and Ontario St to the east. It won't always be that tidy, but it's a good standard to aim for.

BTW, you seem to be stressing a bit about the maps -- don't worry about it. You can have a really strong article without a map. After all, it's pretty easy and cheap to buy a good map for a city, it's not so easy or cheap to buy a good guide to a city like Edmonton.

And thanks for the kind words about Vancouver. I'm sure I'll learn lots about Edmonton -- I've only been there once, and that was years ago with my parents on a family vacation. Far too much time was spent at the West Edmonton Mall :( (WT-en) Shaund 22:46, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey, Shaund! Thanks for all, I just think the main article is like really missing the district map. The borders are pretty simple. Tomorrow I will put the district borders. Remember to tell me when you start (I HOPE SOON!) and tell me how you're progressing! Thanks for all! I will give you a message probably when I put the borders up:). I also added you to "nice people on WikiTravel " just clieck user page:)! Oh so sad that you only saw that horrible, suburban nightmare of a mall. Next time you definately gotta check out Downtown, Oliver, University, and Whyte Ave areas! Just look at the travel guide on where to go :P (104th Street downtown, City centre, festivals, the river valley, 112th St., 124th Street, where the bars are, etc. etc.) Thanks! Reply soon:)!!!!Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 23:24, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Cool. I'll look for those district borders. And glad I could make the nice people list... just one small thing (so my wife stops laughing at me): it should be "go to him" (not her)! (WT-en) Shaund 01:07, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh sorry, Shaund, that is quite funny. It was just a typo I'll fix that, heheheheeh! I'll send you a nice message in your talk and on here for the information (later) today!!!! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 10:15, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

When I get home I'll get all the information ready! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 14:09, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey Edmonton, it's great that you like the maps so much, but... I don't think Edmonton Capital Region and the Calgary Region (when it's created) need maps yet. The articles don't have much content and the cities/towns they're linked to don't have much content either. Once they're stronger, we can revisit it. (WT-en) Shaund 21:44, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey Shaund! I was just putting it up in the air, ¡Buen Día de los Muertes! (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 00:23, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Welcome message

Hi there. Just a pointer-- when you leave a welcome message for new users, type {{subst:welcome}} instead of just {{welcome}}. Otherwise it literally prints the text "Hello PAGENAME!" instead of inserting their actual username. (WT-en) Texugo 20:52, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Ok thanks, was just tryin' to help :)! Also, I thought it was ok, as thats what I got for my begginner! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 20:54, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Regarding Edmonton map

from your talk page Hi, Shaund! It's what you've been waiting for-the information for the Edmonton district's map ahah! I know, I know you were thinking that all-inclusive trip to Miami! NOOO! Haha, anyways, here's all the information:

Edmonton, as you know, is having 8 districts:

Central - bound by: Groat Road in the west from the river until 118th Avenue. The northern boundaries are 118th Avenue which turns into Kingsway Ave. until 111 Avenue, then the northern border takes a north-south boundary at 118th Ave and 97 St. of 97th Street until the Yellowhhead (16) Highway and that continues it's northern border until Wayne Gretzky Drive. It's eastern border is Wayne Gretzky Drive between Yellowhead and river. The southern boundary is the North Saskatchewan River between Groat Road and Wayne Gretzky Drive.

East Central - basically east of the Wayne Gretzky Drive, south of Yellowhead, west of the Highway 216/Anthony Henday Dr. (aka eastern boundaries of the city) and north of the river. Basically that!

South Central - western boundary is the river. Northern boundary is the river until 98 Avenue then that's its norhtern boundary until Connor's Road (Which is rightaway) then at a traffic circle it continues as 83 St. Oh boy, I just did it's eastern boundary, heh. Then continuuuing the eastern boudary along 82nd/Whyte Avenue until 75th St. 75th St. until Argyll Road. Then the southern boundary is Argyll Road which turns into 63 Avenue then joins up with 61 Avenue west of 104th Street/Calgary Trl. Contuinue on that until 113 St. 113 St becomes the border until Belgravia Road/Fox Drive which is the border until Whitemud Drive, which is the border (for a teeeny bit)until the river! Phewph! Confusing?

North - start with the southern boundary which begins in the west as Stony Plain Road until Mayfield Road (north-south road)which then turns into 111(west-east) Avenue which is the border until Groat Road which is the border until 118th Avenue that turns into Kingwway Avenue. Kingsway is then the border until 111 Ave. which is the border until 97th St. 97th is the border until Yellowhead. Then basically anything north of the Yellowhead is the north end. It's eastern boundary is the city limits north of the Yellowhead. Same with the west. The north aswell. Just make sure you check the city borders properyl :)!

Phew-four more!

West - the western border is the city limits. The southern border the same. The northern boundary is Stony Plain Road until Mayfield Road which turns into 111 Avenue. That is the border until Groat Road. Groat Road is the eastern boundary until the river, which finishes off being the eastern border all the way south down to the city limits.

Southwest - Eastern boundary is 99 St. until Whitemud Drive, which is breif in being the border because at 91 St. that becomes the border. 91 St. is the eastern boundary until Anthony Henday Drive. Anthony Henday is brefily the boundary until Calgary Trail, which becomes the boundary until the city limits. Southern borders are the city limits west of Calg. Trail. Western boundary is the North Saskatchewan River until the Whitemud Drive. Whitemud breifly becomes border. Now we're at the northern boder. At Whitemudand Fox Drive, Fox Drive becomes the border which turns into Belgravia Road. At 113 St., 113 St becomes the border until 61 Avenue. Which is the border until it meets up with 63 Avenue which is the border until 99 St.

East - western boundary is 98th Ave until Connor's Rd. then at a traffic circle it continues as 83 St. Then continuing the eastern boudary along 82nd/Whyte Avenue until 75th St. 75th St. until Argyll Road. Then the southern boundary is Argyll Road which turns into 63 Avenue which is the border until 99 St. 99th is the border until Whitemud Drive. The southern boundary is north of Whitmud Drive, east of 99th. The eastern is the city boundaries-I believe Highway 216. Northern boundary is basically the river until Yellowhead Trl. which is the northern boundary until the eastern city limits. *Sigh*.

Mill Woods - basically west of 91 Street untilAnthony Henday Drive (highway) which at Calgary Trail, Calgary Trail becomes the western boundary until southern limits. Southern limits is the southern city limits. Northern boundary is Whitemud Dr. east of 91 St. Eastern boundary is city limits.

Ok there, I hhope I was thorough, I was getting tired. If you have any questions ,remember just ask MIIIII. Remember to put in the city limits, I would also like you to grey-out Sherwood Park and Saint Albert (municipalities connected) like the Vancouver map ;)!!!! Also don't forget to PUT IN the river!!!!!!!! Use online maps or bought maps to help you, aswell! To help you further, I saved a map from OpenStreetMaps to give you a different perspective, in case the above was somewhat confusing!

[[Image:DistrictsofEdmAB.JPG]]

That one shows just the district borders and their names!!!!!

The one below also shows the roads you should put in v2...I know you won't put the roads in rightaway, but soon after the original version is created, please put the roads in. The colours I chose for the words of the districts in this one you can use for the colours of the districts, if you feel as if you'd like to!!!! Here is: [[Image:Roads for eventual map.JPG]]

Just sucks that all the roads in openstreet for Edmonton aren't on there:(!!!! Anyways, how are yeh? How long do you think this will take? One week? I am thinkin' between one and two weeks. Thanks again, I really do appreciate it, and I'm sorry not more of them were squary but they just don't fit so I had to put specific borders, but I did tone it down, like now Westmount is apart of the northside instead and Rexall Place is in central now. Now I've done my dutties, remember tot tell me how you're progressing and when you've started. Thanks, mate! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:18, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the detailed borders and maps. They'll help quite a bit. I'll probably start work on it on the weekend. The whole thing will definitely take more than a week though. Putting down streets is a pain (that Vancouver I map I posted was in the works off and on for three months, for example). (WT-en) Shaund 01:01, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey Shaund! Well, make sure you check your talk page, as I forgot to add some things in here but I did there. KK? Anyways thanks for doing this. So basically 1.5 weeks frum now v1.0 should be out! Yay...THIS IS SO COOL! I am glad I could help in any way...make sure if you have questions to please ask!!!! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 01:06, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

TIP: When you start doing the roads, just do the highways then add roads after :)!!!!! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 01:08, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey Shaund, since you may have missed this in your talk here it is:Also, do you think that I should really give those information to describe the boundaries in the actual pages? A little long...doncha think? I will reserve doing so until you provide an answer as to what you think, so what do you think on the matter? I don't know, Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 12:44, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I did miss it. Yeah, those descriptions are kind of long. Do they cover certain neighbourhoods or areas that might be useful for a visitor to know? If they do, that might be easier to grasp. (WT-en) Shaund 01:06, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Yeah they are long, I wanted to make sure you got it and they are not pmoistly perfect squares ebcause sertain parts dont fit with others. anyways-so just like put in some of the popular neighbourhoods-kinna like i am doing now? kk! keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 10:21, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

OK, the new version of the map is up with the roads and LRT. I'm thinking the LRT symbols aren't working well, but I'll see if there are any comments. (WT-en) Shaund 19:47, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Hey Shaund, I looked at it and it's fantastic! No, really! The LRT symbols are fine but you should finish labelling the roads. Other than that, FANTASTIC! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:31, 11 November 2008 (EST).

Hi EE, I uploaded version 3 of the map. I've added more street names, made 170th yellow from Whitemud to Yellowhead, extended 82nd and added NW to all the numbered streets (other than Ellerslie/9th). There are still a small number of streets that don't have names, but they should be cases where the name was too long or it would make the map look cluttered. I didn't add a Hwy 2 symbol to 170th though -- both Google and Wikipedia indicated it follows Anthony Henday Drive up to Yellowhead and not 170th.

BTW, I took a read of the main Edmonton page. It reads really well, you've done a fantastic job. :-) (WT-en) Shaund 01:12, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Hey Shaund, thank you for that! I checked it out-a few still don't have the NW but thats a simple fix. It's all looking mucho great. And thanks for the compliments on Edmonton. Very much appreciated, really. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:48, 19 November 2008 (EST).

No problem

Hi WindHorse! I want to thank you for you're ideas in the Travellers' Pub! Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast

No problem. Let me know is I can help with anything. (WT-en) WindHorse 00:24, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanks! Did you check your summary on my userpg? Like it? Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 00:27, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Nope, but I just took a look, but couldn't find it. Anyway, I'm sure it will be fine. Cheers. (WT-en) WindHorse 00:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

tRY reloading...theres like a bug. try that, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 01:00, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

OK... Got it. Thank you. Now I have the challenge of trying to live up to the epithets. (WT-en) WindHorse 02:03, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Heh, Keep Smiling (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 10:24, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Advice on Districts

No, I have no advice on districts :-( I find places with one article and small towns so much nicer to work on that large cities. Hong Kong and Macau are nice, because the geography forms the districts for you. Easy to know where everything belongs. Sydney is a nightmare, because there are no accepted districts, no natural geography, and the attractions are spread out. Attractions like Sydney Harbour have no logical single place to put them. I only work on Sydney Districts after taking a deep breath. When I need to relax, I update a place like Hungerford. --(WT-en) Inas 22:39, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

THANKS! Yeah, unlike Sydney Metro, Edmonton doesn't have much geogrpahic borders but it has definate borders. I find it hard how much of the stuff to do is in certain sections, and the other districts left empty. But those districts shoudl NOT be combined with othersbecause they have distinctivenesss!!!!! Ugh it is a constant struggle and you need a lot of energy to do it. Otherwise you just find randomly editing other pages SO SO much easier!! Thanks, really! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 00:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Editing other pages is good! I take a break from Vancouver every now and then just to do something different. It also gives you a chance to see what other people are doing and give you fresh ideas. It's all part of that keeping smiling :-) (WT-en) Shaund 01:10, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, it is, very much a break from it all. And yeah, its nice seeing how others do it, or fixing little things. Keep smiling, haha, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 10:22, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Calgary History

Hey there, sorry, I'm not doing a Calgary history write up. I know nothing about its history so I'd have to research it from scratch. That'll be a job for someone else. (WT-en) Shaund 22:32, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Ok, thanks anyways, I'll try myself at a later time ;)! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 22:59, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Europe

Hey, just rolled back the Europe article. In order for an article to become guide - all subpages must be atleast usable - which is not the case for Europe - to say the least ;o) (WT-en) Sertmann 17:03, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

oops, sorry! keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 17:05, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

userpages

Hey there, regarding this discussion, this user's talk page isn't really the appropriate place to challenge our policy on userpages. There are tons and tons of policy pages around our site, it's best to look and see if a policy (or discussion) exists and maybe read that before commenting.

As a wiki we like to keep things as open as possible. But as you can imagine, if unwatched, this site could turn into an enormous advertisement which nobody wants. We try not to police userpages, but we also aren't a personal homepage service. Have a look at non-goals # 4 and # 6 – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 20:56, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Ok, sorry. I hope I am not making any violations with my UP?! Also, I see where you're coming from. Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 21:37, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Swept in from Talk:Edmonton

Hi EE. Hope you don't mind if I abbreviate your username. =) Anyway, I wanted to explain in detail how the image description page works. This applies to all wiki sites, including both English Wikivoyage and Wikivoyage Shared (which is where your images are). You probably already know a lot of this, but bear with me.

On Wikivoyage Shared, when you click "Upload file" (wts:Special:Upload), you get a form with several fields: Source filename, Destination filename, Summary, and Licensing. You know what Source and Destination are, of course. The "Summary" field and the "Licensing" field have some special magic behind them. Whatever you put in those fields is converted into text that goes onto the image description page.

For example, if you type "This is a photo by Edmontonenthusiast," in the "Summary" field, and select "Any Attribution-Sharealike" in the "Licensing field", then the image description page for your new image will look like this:

==Summary==
This is a photo by Edmontonenthusiast.
==Licensing==
{{cc-by-sa-all}}

Now, the confusing part is that when you use "Upload a new version of this file" -- or anytime you use wts:Special:Upload to upload a file that already exists -- the Summary and Licensing fields work differently than I just described!

When you're uploading a new version of an existing file, the "Licensing" field is completely ignored. The "Summary" field is not ignored, but instead of having the text you enter go on the image description page, like it did before, now it goes into the little table at the bottom that shows the different revisions of the file. In other words, it treats the "Summary" as a summary of the changes you made to the file, not as a description of the file itself. So when uploading a new version, you'd type something like "adjusted the color balance of the image" or "cropped image."

So what do you do if you want to change the information you originally entered? Well, you don't upload a new version of the file. The image description page can be edited just like an article can. Just click the edit button at the top of the page, and you'll be able to change the text to read whatever you want -- you could change "Summary" to "Description", you could delete the licensing tag, you could add an image description template -- anything!

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions.

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 09:46, 4 November 2008 (EST)

Heya I don't mind EE, 'tis simplistic! Well anyways I think it makes sense. Just incase-lemme see if I got this rigth! ! Well basically all I need to do is change the summary, like I don't need to upload a new version? Just re - edit the description? If so, thank you, that is so so much easier! Hope I got it this time 'round! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:17, 4 November 2008 (EST).

Sounds like you've got it right. (WT-en) LtPowers 12:31, 4 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks, LT, you're really helpful! Have a good day mate! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:32, 4 November 2008 (EST).

Vancouver questions

Hey there, that's actually a tough question you asked about what's my favourite part/district of Vancouver. I work downtown but live in North Van, so I don't spend much time in Vancouver itself. Kits is cool for the beach and people watching; Granville Island has a good atmosphere with the market, the restaurants, the little theaters; downtown is obviously good if you want to go out drinking after work and English Bay is tough to beat on a sunny summer afternoon after work. But mostly I hang out on the North Shore since it has the snow in winter and hiking the rest of the year, and lots of pretty spots like Deep Cove, Horseshoe Bay and Lynn Canyon where, even though you're in a metro area of 2.5 million people, you'd never think it.

As for the best spots to see Vancouver's skyline, it really depends on what you're after. If you want to see downtown but not the mountains, the classic spot is probably Lonsdale Quay in North Van. You can also get some interesting views of downtown from Stanley Park between the yacht club and the 9 o'clock gun. Another interesting angle of downtown (and rarely photographed) is from a lookout at Lighthouse Point Park in West Van. If it's clear, you can see the condos and towers of the West End rising out of English Bay, with Kits off to the west and Mount Baker above both (but it has to be very clear).

If you're trying to capture the mountains, Queen Elizabeth Park (the highest point in the city) has a nice view, although downtown is quite small because of the distance. The beaches in Kits (Jericho probably gives the best view, but don't quote me on that) are probably the most popular spot for capturing the skyline of the downtown peninsula with the mountains in the background. If you want something more gritty, Vancouver's City Hall (Cambie & 12th, roughly where I took the photo that's on the top of the page right now) provides a view of the new towers in Yaletown with some of the older buildings in the eastern part of downtown, framed by the North Shore mountains in the background. And if all you want is the mountains, I've seen some incredible panoramas taken from the top of the Harbour Center (Vancouver Lookout). Walking to the end of Canada Place will also give you a nice view of the mountains, although not as much perspective since you're lower to the ground. (WT-en) Shaund 00:39, 7 November 2008 (EST)

Hay Shaund! How'rya!? Thanks for the nice long response. It seemed genuine. I wanted to know because I'm probably going to Vancouver next summer and I really love the city and missed a lot last time, also just for general wondering-SO THANKS! To reply-Kits seems really neat from pictures i've seen, epseciallty the shopping, though i've never been---EXCEPT A DRIVE BY to Seattle. And yeah I've heard of Granville, people here in Ed that've been say thay love it. For downtown, I remember last time I just loved it. To me Vancouver is like really beautiful. You guys make good use of curtain wall towers! Sometime I should show you some really neet pics I've found on the internet of Vancouver. Anyways...I really liked the STORYEUM ... toooo bad that closed. I didn't really check out Robson St., though next time I will. I think next time I'll like tour WestVan also, which I barely saw. For skylines, I took pics from Stanely Park, though didnt turn out well due to being at night. I know about from Spanish Banks and the North Van though I've never really been. The one you took from Cambie seems really interesting, I particularily like the clash of modern fab/old grit or even just old/new. I will DEFINITELY have to check out next time I'm in VanCity! Thanks! Have you been learning about Edmonton much through the Edmonton articles? If so-what-give some particular examples! Also, whats your favourite Vancouver shopping area? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 11:12, 7 November 2008 (EST).

Hey EE, I didn't know much about Edmonton before working on the articles, so pretty much everything has been learning. I thought the pyramids and Winston Churchill square (I think that's the name?) were cool. Reading about ski hills in river valleys in the middle of the city made me smile (brings back memories of Ontario!).

As for shopping in Vancouver, I'm not a good person to ask, I avoid shopping! You know, go to the nearest mall and get in and out as fast possible. I hear Robson Street has lots of shops... like, ah, Roots... and HMV... and Tiffany's! In all seriousness though, what they did with Robson Street is pretty cool -- there's a city by-law that says there has to be a new storefront every 40 or 60 feet, so it's created a very walkable street with lots of little shops and boutiques. (WT-en) Shaund 16:52, 9 November 2008 (EST)

So you like the Muttart? Winston Churchill Square, yep. So sad, besides New Years, in Winter its so empty. 'tis quite lively in summer though. Yeah we have a pretty glamourous river valley it's like our icon. Do you like the pics that show it? Is there any buildings that you find interesting? What about the theatre? I'd ask ya about shopping but you don't like it :P.

I love shopping...Robson and Kits seem like the bes.t... I don't really like chain shopping-I can pretty much do that at home. Though it is nice seeing big names-means its' successfull-so long as it doesnt shroud the others. I dont mind if boutiques carry just labels, not theyre own though. Any good pointers on that? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:06, 9 November 2008 (EST). OH and also, next time you come to Edmonton, lemme know, I can give you a list of stuff you might like the most :).

BTW - thanks for the edits on Vancouver and districts. It all helps! (WT-en) Shaund 00:01, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Glad to be helping. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 00:15, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Downtown Edmonton Map

Sure, I'll be happy to make a downtown Edmonton map for you! :) For an area that small, looks like it'll be a piece of cake. And I'll get to learn something about Canada other than what I hear on TV - that your health care system is awesome and that you play a lot of hockey. :P (WT-en) PerryPlanet 18:40, 7 November 2008 (EST)

well that's about right anyway, and then they say "eh!?" a lot, can't pronounce "About" properly, and manage somehow to stick a maple leaf to just about everything (my best friend is Ontarian) ;o) (WT-en) Sertmann 18:47, 7 November 2008 (EST)

PERRYPLANET! Thank you! I just edited a map from Open Street which I'll show you to help explain things better: there is 13 hotels, 22 buy, 16 see/do, 8 drink, and the biggest: 29 eat. It's pretty fair (more than say Columbus, OH) but not bad really and the road system is for the most part a grid (we have a massive river valley, so some roads wind a bit to get down to the river or to bridge) so the road planning is pretty easy. If you stay on a tiny bit longer, I'll gather up all the information and give it to you. Again I want to thank you, also, how long do you think it'll take you? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 19:03, 7 November 2008 (EST).

Also, haha to the derrogatory Canadian comments. Sert, American's say "EH" a lot too. How do we say about, we don't do British but at least in EDMONTON, we pronounce it - ah-Bow-tuh. Yeah we have a pretty good healtchare system, but the UK and France have better. We founded the NHL. On top of that we have really clean cities and don't have grit to the amass of America (Chicago, New York, Rustbelt, etc.). We also have denser cities compared to US cities of similar sizes, compare Edmonton and Austin, Toronto and Atlanta, Seattle and Montréal, Winnipeg and Grand Rapids, Ottawa and Oklahoma City, Calgary and San Antonio, Halifax and Boise, etc. etc. We also have very safe cities, like really. Even our dangeroust cities don't compare to most American cities (Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Winnipeg). Hmmm...what else? We have more national parks. We have basically 4 different Canadian cultures: Main Canada (BC, Prairies, Ontario, Nova Scotia, New bruswick), Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador/PEI, and the North.Hmmm our English (spelling) is like the British. Stuff like that. Like I hate it when i see CAPITOL...it's like ugh it's CAPITAL!!!!!!! Haha. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 19:10, 7 November 2008 (EST).

Also remember, Edmonton has 1.1 million, Abuquerque has 800,000. Edmonton's bigger. Of course you've done Denver (2.6mil) and San Fran (7.3mil) but just comparing because your in NM. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 19:30, 7 November 2008 (EST).

You Canadian Idiot look at 1:07! :o) I'll never forget my my friend coming back from career day at my university, after talking to some dude from UBC, "oh my god, do I really say "about" like that, I can't believe it, I never noticed before now!! (oh well, maybe you should have been there, but it was hilarious) - and please don't take offense, I like Canada, just messing with ya' (WT-en) Sertmann 19:37, 7 November 2008 (EST)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! What the hell? We don't talk like A-BOOT, at least not in Western Canada. Ahahahahahah that's hilarious, I usually hate it when people make fun of untrue/true facts about Caanda, but thats freaking hilarious! Haahahahahahahahah! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 19:41, 7 November 2008 (EST).

EHHH! How a'boot that? Now for one of my favorite bits of Canada mockery: the Canada Song from MST3K. Okay, I'm done with the derogatory (but fun) Canadian comments. Your map is ready: Image:Edmonton downtown map.png. If it looks good, go ahead and put it in the article. :) (WT-en) PerryPlanet 20:02, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Perry planet, we really don't say it a-boot. I don't get it. Either ah-bow-tuh or if talking really fast, A-buh. I'll look at that thing in a minute. The map looks fabulous, I'll go and add it and I hope to see you take interest in Edmonton, it's a wonderful city! Also, please be aware I may want to you to updated it once and a bit. Also everything looks fine except two things, which are quite small: You should label the LRT stations and that the buildings that arent labelled you should get rid of, except the one on 104 Avenue and 101 St., the circular one: call that one Baccaratt Casino. Thanks, Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:09, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Also, P.P., you might want to put as a small "legend" that the gold coloured thing for 104 st and Rice Howard way means a shopping area. Thanks, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Also, you should probably get rid of the parking "P"'s unless you want to label all the parking-that'd be brutal (lots of small lots). Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:24, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Sorry, but I noticed:ENTERPRISE SQ. is not a park, you should have it again as a bldg.

I updated and got everything except putting the malls in the legend. I don't think we need to worry about that, that color is supposed to indicate a trail or pedestrian-only street, like the 16th Street Mall on the downtown Denver map (which I also made). (WT-en) PerryPlanet 20:41, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Perry Planet, 104th Street isn't pedestrian only-but it is a major shopping area. Rice Howard Way is 1-way. Also you should move "MADE IN CANADA" to the corner of Rice Howard and 100 St. Thank you!

Also, "FREE PRESS BISTRO" needs to be moved south to 104 St. and 100 Avenue, it's not on Jasper Ave. KEep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk.

Oh...well, if it's just a street with lots of shops on it, we probably don't need to mark it on the map. You could just mention in the Buy section "104 Street between bla-bla-bla and da-da-da is a shopping district" or something like that. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 20:55, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Perry, go to either the Edmonton main article or Edmonton central and under buy you'll see 104 St. and Rice Howard Way there. ;) Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:57, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Oh well, nice work though PerryPlanet... (WT-en) Sertmann 21:15, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Perry, you did a fine job. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 21:35, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Re:image

Looks like you've got it. =) (WT-en) LtPowers 22:31, 7 November 2008 (EST)

THANKS! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:50, 7 November 2008 (EST).

Docent

Hi, EE! Since you know so much about Edmonton, have you considered becoming a Docent? (WT-en) LtPowers 19:00, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Hey, LT, thanks for that. So long as I don't need to give out my e-mail I'd be glad. Also, how do people know about docents. The average person that looks on here wouldn't know where to find the Docent page. Thanks, Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 19:26, 8 November 2008 (EST).

You don't have to give out your e-mail, just be available to answer questions on your talk page (and state your preference prominently on your user page). The docents for a destination are listed on the ~~right~~left-hand side of the destination's article page. See Walt Disney World Resort and look under the Search box for an example. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

State your preference prominently? For me it's on the left-side. So am I a docent? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 21:34, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Left? Isn't that what I said? ;) Anyway, just follow the instructions on the Project:Docents page if you want to be listed. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:37, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Do I have to do it for district articles? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 21:42, 8 November 2008 (EST).

You could, but it's probably not necessary. (WT-en) LtPowers 22:01, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Edmonton Pic at the bottom of the Edmonton Travel Guide

I changed the title from just "Edmonton" to Edmonton skyscrapers from an aerial view. sounds better i think if you want to consult with other wikivoyagers on the title please do or change it back. thanks --71.254.104.10 22:39, 8 November 2008 (EST) p.s. good work on the travel guide.

Nono, I saw that and I like what you did. It's fine. Thank you so much for your good work thing, you really don't know how much it is appreciated. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 22:40, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Regina and other towns in Canada

Edmonton Ent will you just be working on the edmonton and edmonton central tvl guides or a variety of other towns like Regina or Swift Current??? --71.254.104.10 23:30, 8 November 2008 (EST)

71.254.104.10, or do you have a nickname of a sort? Anyways, you obviously haven't been around here long. You don't realize that you cant make assumptions by beeing here for 2 hours. I actually am a Project:Docents for Edmonton and ALL it's districts. Not to mention I am the one who put almost all the work into all the Edmonton districts and the main article, not just those two. Also, no offense, but you haven't realized, if you go to Saskatoon, and see the bessborough: that's my image. I have done lots of edits the the following other ciites and regions and their districts: Vancouver, Seattle, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary, Portland (Oregon), Alberta, Canada, San Bernardino, Sydney and United States. Not to mention all the other places where I've done small stuff: most notably: Copenhagen. Sorry for my rudeness. It's just you obviously haven't checked more than Recent changes. No offense. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:36, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Also, ya should consider gettin an account. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:42, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Other Edmonton Maps

Sure, I'll be willing to do a couple more maps. But be sure all your info is straight this time, so that I don't wind up doing a bunch of revisions again. :) (WT-en) PerryPlanet 10:51, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Haha, sure. Which one would you like to do first, then I can gather the info and you can start today. Thank-you. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 13:12, 9 November 2008 (EST).

Here they are: Image:Edmonton old strathcona map.png and Image:Edmonton oliver map.png. And I updated the downtown map. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 21:39, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks very much! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 22:42, 9 November 2008 (EST).

The Chocolat Bar

spelled this way EE just wanted to let ya know. --(WT-en) Hayfield 18:48, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 18:49, 9 November 2008 (EST).

Ottawa

No reason to get indignant. Again, you must try to be patient and pro-active. You can look at the article and ask yourself what it needs and plunge forward yourself. If you want to improve this article, I'd say you could start by finding some more budget sleep listings (there are only two), find some central internet cafes to add, find some phone numbers and websites for the eat listings that are missing them, etc. etc. You don't have to wait for someone to tell you that, and you certainly shouldn't get huffy if no one happened to see your talk page note after only a week. Not everybody sees every single post every time. I didn't even see it until just now and I'm probably here more than you are. (WT-en) Texugo 00:35, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Hrrr...I just don't know Ottawa well so I was wondering what specifically to look at. You also gotta gimme a break, when I posted that I must have only been here 2 days! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 00:40, 10 November 2008 (EST).

Chilling out

EE, please chill out. Several other contributors have already asked you to do so, repeatedly. If you would take the time to carefully figure out how things work here, by reading our policy articles, and by observing and respecting how things are practiced within the Wikivoyage community, you could put your enthusiasm to good use.

As it is, your incessant attention-seeking and blithe charging ahead are causing more harm than good. By cluttering (for example) the pub with discussions that only pertain to you, or which belong on article talk pages or other users' talk pages—if it takes long for someone to respond, it is childish to mess up the pub with demands for attention. By blindly charging ahead with ill-formed proposals on the CotM page without bothering to understand how things work there, how proposals have been worked in the past, you create a mess that is hard to clean up. By ignoring the conventions on the vfd page by leaving all sorts of colored, bolded, and shouted comments, you distract from the real work that needs to be done there. More generally, disregarding the norms of a community you are joining is simply disrespectful.

I realize that your contributions are in good faith, but given how prolific your disruptive comments have become, I am tempted to start reverting them. Please take a step back, do some reading and observing, and chill out. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:39, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Fine. I'll never bring up another topic in the Travellers' Pub, CotM page, or even Discussion pages. Aparently it causes to much harm. WHATEVER. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 14:41, 10 November 2008 (EST).

To add, I am sick of all of you coming down on me, all I am trying is to put up discussions and it is really difficult trying to go on when you have a question that you really wanted answered. Then-you just go on, and then you have to get rid of all that work you put into what you thought was the right answer because it isn't correct. This is painful. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 14:43, 10 November 2008 (EST).

EE, you have to understand there are only so many of us here. We all have various other projects we're working on, both on Wikivoyage and off. There aren't enough of us with enough time to take you step-by-step through everything. But, see, that's the beautiful thing about wikis -- you can go ahead and plunge forward and not have to worry about any mistakes you might make. Begging for help multiple times a day only produces frustration -- frustration in you because you're not getting answers promptly, and frustration in your fellow editors who don't have the time or ability to answer so many questions in detail.

We're not asking you to stop contributing, or even to stop asking questions. But you need to slow down your pace and lower your expectations. By all means, write write write all you want -- you've done a fantastic job with splitting Edmonton into districts. But write for the sake of writing, and don't keep constantly asking if this is okay or that is okay. If there's a problem with what you've done, someone will come along and fix it, or ask you about it. That's how wikis work.

Let me reiterate, your contributions have made Edmonton an article we can be proud of, and I look forward to seeing it become a star one day. We need enthusiastic contributors like you, but you're overwhelming the site. Maybe if we had as many contributors as Wikipedia does, someone could answer all of your questions. Unfortunately we don't -- not yet. For now, we take things slowly and address problems as they arise. I hope you can adjust to our speed, because we value your contributions. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:53, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Let me give you an example. I asked a question on Talk:Finger Lakes on October 20. No one has responded to my question. This happens; it's not a popular article. So I'm not going around posting everywhere I can think of to try to get attention to my question. Instead, I'm going to plunge forward, pick a choice, and implement it. If someone later thinks I did it wrong, then we can discuss it then. Anything can be fixed later. It doesn't have to be perfect right away. The important thing is to write content. The details will eventually work out. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:58, 10 November 2008 (EST)

LT, first of, thanks for the fantastic reply, you too, PFGRLD! Anyways, I guess I should reply to everything, step-by-step. You should understand that it is very frustrating getting no help and isn't very encouraging to edit-luckily I just really like WikiTravel. I am sorry for asking to much of you all. I do hope you've noticed I've toned down the questions, it's just some I'd really like to know. Like the one about my images-that one's aching me! Rgggh. Anyways, I will try and slow my question-asking down more minimal-and try to keep most of them in discussions and talk pgs not the pub :). Thank you for the positive enforcement on my Edmonton work, I love this city. You know, the funny thing is-that by the time we get enough contributers-I'll probably want nobody else, or at least not many people (as say wP) to edit Edmonton because I think they'd screw it up. It's kind of hilarious. The only parts I really need help is with completing the districting. Well thankyou and sorry for my frustrations. I was only getting dramatic when I said I would never bring up suggestions, etc. Don't worry. I really enjoy WikiTravel, I feel like I am doing my part and making the best travel guide for Edmonton.PERIOD. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:30, 10 November 2008 (EST).

Don't worry about the pictures. Use your best judgment. You know Edmonton better than anyone here, so you know best how to represent it in photos. (WT-en) LtPowers 20:09, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks, and yeah I do. Anyways I was referring more to the pixels and does it look blurry, stuff like that not does it represent well, etc. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:12, 10 November 2008 (EST).

And in the light of the above comments, and due to the fact that the pubt is getting totally out of control (way way way to many topics). May I suggest you sweep up the pub for questions specific to you or any of the Edmonton acticles, and move them to the relevant talk pages? And then i'll have a look at the rest of the entries tomorrow when i get home from work, so we can get the place cleaned up. (WT-en) Sertmann 20:21, 10 November 2008 (EST)

All the ones that don't belong move them to their respective places, yes. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 20:23, 10 November 2008 (EST).

Cheers (WT-en) Sertmann 20:28, 10 November 2008 (EST)

maps

I've updated the Oliver map. :) As for the Vancouver map, I'm going to have to pass. Now that the weekend is over, I'm back into my busy routine again. But if you want it done soon, may I suggest you look into learning how to draw a map? Once you've practiced a bit, you'll be able to update maps like nothing. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 21:27, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, no problem. But you said you'd do another map for me-like of the entire Central District, I will get those details to you as soon as I can, but I don't expect you to do it - as you said you have a busy work and probably the time you have left over you'd rather be doin' something else like doing something else on the internet, going to a restaurant, watching tv, hangin out with friends. I understand. Anyways, I thought you'd be interested in the Vancouver one-but that is fine! Just thought I'd ask. Anyways, thanks for tthe update on the Oliver map. Thanks! KEep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 21:36, 10 November 2008 (EST).

Technically, I said "I'll be willing to do a couple more maps." Which I've done. ;) But catch me next weekend, when my homework and class load won't be so much, and I might be able to churn out one more for you. Or better yet, you can learn how to draw a map yourself - it's actually easier than you might think. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 22:03, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Well there's lots of maps I'd need for Edmonton, after a while I'lla probably be sick of asking and try it myself. But if you don't want to do that one, 'tis fine. Remember if you feel like doing any more maps-I can figure one out fer-yeh! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 22:34, 10 November 2008 (EST).

How's It going?

I just read up on some of the travellers pub comments for you to slow down on your editing and it does seem frustrating sometimes but what i have learned from wikis is that take your time and things will work out okay people are their and they will help you. Didn't want you to feel left out EE Cheers! --(WT-en) Hayfield 22:16, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah, how are things going? Are you managing to negotiate your way through the system? As the guys said, it is good to read as much of the guidelines as possible and then just plunge ahead. People will point out any errors. Anyway, it seems like you doing a great job on Edmonton. Keep at it. (WT-en) WindHorse 23:02, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks you guys. Really kind words. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 00:13, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Hey WH, I am starting to understand how things run around here . I am more used to the fact people won't help you rightaway. keep smiling,(WT-en) ee ^talk 14:33, 12 November 2008 (EST).

User talk:131.123.11.76

Please just ignore editors like User talk:131.123.11.76. See Project:How to handle unwanted edits. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 18:39, 12 November 2008 (EST)

inapropriate words toward ip address

hey EE not trying to stir anything up but yes that vandal was bad looks like mods have taken care of it though lets hope he/she doesnt come back i know you are frustrated but it's not nice to retaliate at the person it just makes things worse next time just """"ignore"""" them... thanks --(WT-en) Hayfield 18:40, 12 November 2008 (EST)

I see Ryan talked to you okay just checking... :) --(WT-en) Hayfield 18:42, 12 November 2008 (EST) oh and keep up the good work...

Oh God I feel like an idiot. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 18:43, 12 November 2008 (EST).

I see you've already been talked to about this, but you responded to another vandal today. Please don't do this, it's counterproductive. Simply undo whatever the vandal did and move on. Moreover, messages left for anonymous users will often be received by more than just the user you intend them for--if it is a public terminal, or a dynamic ip. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

This is getting a little out of hand-and I am getting somewhat paranoid-why did you delete my comment to that anonymous user? I was kind and everything-I just told him to stop with his nonsense. I really am beginning to think we're much to lenient here. People don't see concequences so they'll do whatever and get other people mad, but of course they can't do anything because that of all things is the bad thing to do in the situation. Not the spammer or the person giving naughty edits, etc. ...no no it's the guy who wants to ban him or her so that maybe we can have some grace who would get in trouble ( I know they wouldn't get in trouble, but still it's frowned upon and would get reverted ). hmmm...this is different than i originally said. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 00:33, 19 November 2008 (EST).

Re: AnonUser

You were already pointed to our policy on what to do with problem users. (And it was by following that link myself that I realized my mistake.) The community has decided to only use the block tool for two purposes: to stop persistent vandalism only long enough to clean it up (less than 24 hours), or to permanently block an inappropriate user name. Neither situation applied here. We don't use blocking for punishment. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:39, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Of course, if you really think that user should be blocked, you can go here, but I wouldn't bother unless he comes back. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:42, 12 November 2008 (EST)

So he gets no punishment for doing what he did? That's basically says "Yeah, it's ok to blow up a building." C'mon...conciquences! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 21:51, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Its not about punishment but about cooling a situation, and blocking a contributor has generally been found to exacerbate rather than resolve a problem. It is like dealing with muddy water. Sometimes the best way to clear the dirt is just to leave it settle. However, as the guidelines state, there is provision for permanently blocking a persistent vandal. Hope that helps clarify the policy. (WT-en) WindHorse 22:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks I've read some other peoples comments and I get it. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 22:26, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Edmonton

I've never actually been to Edmonton, so any assistance I can offer is only really picking up typos. I've been around Canada a bit, and visited the usual Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Victoria (British Columbia), and I lived in Ottawa for a while (brrr), but I guess like many people I have never been to Edmonton, I guess I always sort of knew it was there, but I'm still not sure I could pin it on a map. This has obviously a large oversight, now that I know what I have missed :-) I hope your can get your city to one day be a star. --(WT-en) Inas 01:04, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Thank you very much Inas! You are so kind! Next time you hit up Canada, definitely come to Edmonton. Though it has a bad rep, it can be quite fun! Just don't got to that bloodyyy mal :<! HahA! But seriously, it's quite the interesting city. You'd fall in love with it in summer...with all the festivals! Would you be interested in E-town? Of course, it doesn't have te mass of Toronto or NY...but it is definitely interesting! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 10:26, 14 November 2008 (EST).

Give the pub a break

Hola! Just a note to say, and I mean this kindly, try to give the pub a break. I know you have lots of questions, but sooo many things have been discussed to death on this site already, so if you look around a little and get to know the policy pages a bit better you'll find it's actually pretty easy to find previous discussions on various topics on the respective talk pages. That way the pub stays tidey and focused, and you don't tire people out with excessive questions. Also, keep in mind that somebody at some point has to go through the pub and archive all of the conversations and move them to the relevant policy talk pages anyway, so the more you write in there, the more work you're creating for someone else down the line. Gracias! – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 04:15, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Hey I hope you know I mean well and I am really trying not to do it in overload. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:19, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Of course I do, all I'm asking is that you pause for a second and think your question through properly before you pose it, and have a look around for existing opinions on the subject, since they most likely exist already – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 13:46, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Edmonton for Wikivoyage Press?

Would you be interested in doing an Edmonton book for Wikivoyage Press? Take a look around Wikivoyage Press and drop me a line at jani at wikivoyagepress dot com, please. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:00, 15 November 2008 (EST)

I would be extrememly flattered-but I'll have to look through somethings. I'll give you a message when I make my decision;)! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:20, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Okay, I looked through it and I am sure that it is all answered in there. But I have some questions about press. First of all, I am extremely, but does Edmonton really match up with Chicago, Singapore, Paris, and Cairo? Am I really that good? Also is it really hard to make them-doesn't seem like it. It seems I'll need to install a program, no? Is it a good program ( I am really picky what I sign up for ) and do I need it? Would I get a free copy, being the creator or something, that'd be awesome! DO I NEED to use my real name as the author...because I'm not comfortable with that, I prefer Edmontonenthusiast or something especially when this can be seen by more people (i.e.: one person gets it, then people look at it from that person, and it spreads!). It looks like it would look quite similar to the guide, no? It seems like a pretty easy task...although not everyone can do it, because not every guide is up for that. Anyways, so the maps that've been created will go in the book, that'd be awesome (they're not mine!). Is it hard work? Will I need to get an account on press, or could you just put up the info or something...I'm not really comfortable with creating lots of accounts...sorry, I am like that. I don't need to ship anything, correct?, that's just you guys. I know I have a lot of questions but I don't want to miss anything. So I'd get paid for making a book...a teenager getting paid for making an online book...that's neat! Since you asked me and I gave you this, do i have to e-mail you, I am sorry, I'ts not really you, I am just not comfortable e-mailing people/things I don't know! Sorry for it all! How long did it take say Helsinki to make or something? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:41, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Sorry, forgot the most important link, so please read through http://wikivoyagepress.com/editors/ and try again if you have any questions left over. Yucca is online, so you don't need to install anything. Once the WT articles are in good shape (and Edmonton is), it's not particularly hard work to add the final touches for book generation.

I'll need at least an e-mail address for you, so I can mail you your Yucca password, sign you up to the editors mailing list and send royalties via PayPal, but you're welcome to use a pseudonym in the book. Editing a book would look pretty good on your resume though... (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:57, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Hey thanks, and I saw that page but I still had the questions I asked. Well I basically only need to give you a e-mail address? That's it? Well so long as it isn't released anywhere, I'll probably say yes. I still want to think this over, and an answer to my other statements. I also want Amazon.com and Amazon.ca to sell the book upon it's release. Is that ok? I am glad you think the Edmonton article is up for it. Will you be able to help lots, it'd be a load off. I also would request some other articles that could make it. Again, how long would it take to get done? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:28, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Wait...I'd need to give out my address....oooh I am not too comfortable with that, oy I feel bad that I'm picky like this. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 00:30, 16 November 2008 (EST).

There's nothing stopping you from creating a throwaway GMail account or something if you're that worried...

The book will go on Amazon.com, but Amazon.ca is unfortunately not technically possible now, since CreateSpace doesn't support it. If this changes someday, we'll be all over it, but it's not in our control.

I'll help with any technical issues you have, but the book itself is your responsibility, that's what you'd be paid for. And no, I'm not going to publish Edmonton unless you sign up, I have way too much on my plate already. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:27, 16 November 2008 (EST)

And oh — please stop pestering people to help you with the book project. I'm only going to hire editors who actually live in the city, and right now you're the only (super)active Edmontonian. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:58, 16 November 2008 (EST)

So, unless they've created maps, I can't get anyone who doesn't live in the city to help in any way, except that, correct? And you still haven't answered about the address. The thing that sucks is about Amazon.com is that you end up paying between 30-40 dollars Canadian instead of 20 dollars for this Chicago one because of shipping, duties, and taxes. So basically I'd be the only one that'd be doing this. I don't have so much a problem about the e-mail as the address. Anyways, I was just putting the idea out there that you could, you seem a little ticked about it. Is there any other books in the works aswell, that'd be meat to know. Also, I am wondering if it's really worth it, how good are the sales? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 12:43, 16 November 2008 (EST).

You can try to get anybody you like to help, people just usually feel uncomfortable editing places they don't know at all, and I won't pay royalties to them. If you want to receive free copies of the book, you obviously need to give me an address when I can mail them. Sales are a question mark, because apparently nobody has ever published a book-length Edmonton guide before: this either means that we've found a nice market gap, or that there is no market. And no, I'm not ticked off, I'm just not in the habit of blowing sunshine up people's asses =) (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:19, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Haha, well there is numerous Edmonton travel guides. Doncha know that? Definitely more than AustralianOutback or something. Just Wikivoyage hasn't made one. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:29, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Thanks

Hey EE, thanks for the star and admin nomination. We'll see how it goes. And that's good catch on the link on my user page, it's probably been like that since I set it up. Oops.

Re Edmonton for WT Press, sounds like a cool project. I'd be happy to help out with the editing, layout work, and similar stuff (if it's possible to share). You'll have to take the lead though, especially on content and updates, since you're way more familiar with the city than I am. I think Peter took on the editor's role for Chicago -- he'd be a good person to talk to, to see how much time and effort is involved. (WT-en) Shaund 13:28, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Hey thanks. Yeah it goes by yuou have 1 main editor than as many other's for small purposes I believe. And you're welcome for everything! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 13:32, 15 November 2008 (EST).

sorry

I'm afraid I'm a little too busy to help you out with the Edmonton travel book. In fact, I'm supposed to be working on a book already which I've put off due to my busy schedule. So sorry, but no. Good luck to you though! (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 16:21, 15 November 2008 (EST)

That's fine, thought I'd ask. But would you be able to just do the maps resizing ,etc. for the book? It's just a small one. Which one are you supposed to be working? Best of luck. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 16:38, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Capitals

Howdy, over the years this has become a pet peeve of mine, but Wikivoyage actually utilizes a lowercase t rather than a capital T. Thus, WikiTravel is wrong. I know, it's a pretty mundane point, but I figured I'd let you know. Cheers. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:15, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah I know. thanks though. I haven't been spelling it like that for a bit now. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 17:22, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Any chance you might drop the caps all together? except of course when grammar calls for it :o) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 23:29, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Huh? Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:30, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Barnstar

This barnstar is to show you appreciation for your great work on the Edmonton article and for your continued curiosity and desire to improve Wikivoyage. Thanks! Gracias! -- (WT-en) AHeneen 22:31, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Oh this is so flattering :)! Thanks so much, and I will continue to be a great worker! Thankyou, haha, love how the Spanish thing is catching on!!!!! Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee ^talk 23:27, 16 November 2008 (EST).

CotM

Hey there, do you think you could slow down with the CotM nominations? If we all nominated 5 within a month we'd suddenly have years' worth of suggestions to slough through. Please think and choose carefully before nominating, and have patience. (WT-en) Texugo 19:46, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Don't worry. I mean well, I won't do any more for a while ;). Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:50, 17 November 2008 (EST).

Yes, I'd really appreciate it if you would hold off on this, since we are still trying to come up with a new process for CotMs—we will likely scrap the order of things anyway. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:41, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah, I know. That thing COULD get complicated. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:46, 17 November 2008 (EST).

Architecture in Vancouver

Hey EE, just thought I'd give you a quick explanation for why I deleted the architecture section you added to the Vancouver page today.

Stuff like that shouldn't be in the Understand section, See is probably best.
I don't think listing the various styles bullet point is very useful to a visitor. If we do discuss the architecture, I think it should be no more than a paragraph or two that highlights the most interesting buildings and whichever style they may be. Maybe it's me, but I can't imagine wanting to travel to another city to see brutalist office towers! :-) (it should probably be done in Vancouver/City Center rather than the main Vancouver article, as well) (WT-en) Shaund 02:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Sorry sorry shaund, i was gonna add info but i didnt wanna right away. next time i'll get the info first!!!! Also, you cant see going to a city to see brutalism because A) you dont like it or B) not much interest in architecturte. have a nice day! keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:36, 18 November 2008 (EST).

Edmonton Buy links

The links I removed are basically external shopping guides, which is in clear violation of our external links policy. (WT-en) Texugo 23:51, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:53, 18 November 2008 (EST).

O.K....

Whoa. I was not "directing the thought that (you) are doing too many nominations to a specific area". I was simply trying to explain why I thought we should put in SF for May instead of April. I do not mind that you nominated several Canadian destinations, I was simply saying that we try not to schedule them one right after the other. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 16:17, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Okay, I'm sorry I took it the wrong way. Also I've nominated 3 Canadian destinations (1 is OtbP) and 2 American (1 is OtbP). Sorry, really. Have a good day! Hope you're doing well!!! Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:20, 19 November 2008 (EST).

raja1020

first of all, let me thank you for the kind message on my talk page. I came to wikitavel because you can't really express your knowledge about a place without being called biased or a vandal, I also came here because ive been to 68 countries and can speak 20 languages fluently so i figured i have some knowledge that I could shre. My question is this: Is there anything like admins on wikivoyage if so, how do you become one? Please message me back on my talk page. Thank you!

thanks for the advice(WT-en) Raja1020 17:55, 19 November 2008 (EST)

No problem, but don't create new messages each time you need to talk-talk in the ones you've already created. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:56, 19 November 2008 (EST).

Hey,ee. First off,my places do not use the left and for eating, examples are: all of the Midlle eatsteren countries, India, and all other muslim ,hindu, and alot of bhuddist countries. If you come to these countries.(WT-en) Raja1020 11:43, 21 November 2008 (EST)

If I come to these countries............................? ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:41, 21 November 2008 (EST).

Sorry, if you come to these countries they wont HATE you if you slip up, they will proobably laugh and remind you.Plus, I'M left handed.(WT-en) Raja1020 11:45, 21 November 2008 (EST)

And whats this about its stupid and a flaw of the culture? Wow, thats really going to upset some people,including me.m You really need to be more open-minded. REALLY.(WT-en) Raja1020 12:02, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Do you live in the Arabs? How does that work-left handed? ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:04, 21 November 2008 (EST).

Aye, I think both sides need to be more open midned. Sorry if it upset you and I don't reemmber saying it's a flaw of your culture - I just find it not very open minded. Sorry if that upset you. Also, you have to double space between posts otherwise it comes up with the last post. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:08, 21 November 2008 (EST).

wHAT THE HECK?!?! I just told you that alot of other cultures have the same belief!!! I'm sorry but some of your comments on the pakistan ettiquette talk page are a little insulting. And what the heck is:ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!,mean? What does that have to do with this disscusion?

My God. You dont make any sense. I didn't say cultures don't have the same belief-I know they do. How the hell am I being insulting-this is getting a little out of hand. I'd like to know. Also, if you noticed I always have "Keep Smiling" before I sign my name, well last night a meteor crashed in Canada, so, for today, I changed it. I don't think that I should have to explain that. Lighten up, Im not that bad a person. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:31, 21 November 2008 (EST).

How am I insulting you?? And, yes, you did say that! this is from the talk page:"Well it's offending because it is discriminating to one of my qualities. It is stupid and a dumb flaw of the culture." thats from your mouth.(WT-en) Raja1020 13:45, 21 November 2008 (EST)

actually i used to live in Pakistan but now I live in sasatchewan.(WT-en) Raja1020 13:58, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Now that we got your comments in the right spot. This whole "insulting" thing was brought up in the article talk, if you don't remember, maybe a second glance? Yes, I did say that comment that you have so gratuitously quoted, but we are talking about Pakistan, no? Well, that's what I am talking about. I am not going to go in every topic when we're talkin about a specific thing and say "Oh by the way it's also there or it's also this" unless there is a particular reason, which, of course, there isn't. By the way, I can tell you live in Saskatchewan by your spelling, nice ;) (it's a joke-lighten up). ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 15:48, 21 November 2008 (EST).

Thanks from Tapirlodge

Thanks ^^ I will keep fighting publicity--(WT-en) Tapirlodge 12:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Hehe, NP. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:46, 21 November 2008 (EST).

help with canada

hey ee. As I said I live in sasatchewan. Do I need to to learn french if I needed to go to Quebec? I just moved to the country with my familiy and i'm loving it!!! I just want to know if I need to learn french.(WT-en) Raja1020 16:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Hey Raja1020, How are you? To get off topic for a sec, sorry if I offended you or your culture by my comments-it got a little carried away. I just found it odd-but I guess that's what happens when your in a pampered modern society. Anyways, your question. I am glad you love Canada, what's your favourite part, where have you been, where do you wanna go? Well, French is Canada's second language and would kind of take the part of English as a nation's second language in much of Europe and Asia. It isn't necessary to learn it, but there are cultural impacts because of it and there are large groups who speak it. Now, that's other countries, Canada's is a little more unique, otherwise we'd have Spanish, Mandarin and Jew languages as other languges. Quebec is a very odd situation, the entire province is backwards to Canada, in that, they have French as the 1st language, and English as secondary. So, as I've heard people say, it is not necessary to know French when going to say Montréal but you will be able to communicate much better. In Quebec City, you'd definitely need French. All in all, it isn't necessary, but it will go a long way. Also, I don't get why you keep spelling SasKatchewan wrong. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:25, 21 November 2008 (EST).

I currently live in regina,but in two months i'll be living in my permanent home in Ottowa. Just a quick question,it may seem stupid,sorry, but does the queen have any power? message me!

Are you smoking crack?

Why on earth are you barnstarring people like User:(WT-en) Tapirlodge, who just deleted half the content in Ecuador!? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Eyk! I didn't notice that, sorry, really. I was looking at some of the edits he did in that time and they were all fantastic. That is why. Please don't use that header, it's quite rude. I did have good intentions, for your information. I'm sorry. I just looked at some stuff and it was amazing. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 01:21, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Yeah bad choice of words there Jpatokal i'am sticking up for ee on this one he didnt know and J your a admin so i'am very surprised by your words. --72.73.88.235 11:48, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:15, 22 November 2008 (EST).

No, I'm not going to start blowing sunshine up your ass — you've been here long enough that you should have learned the ropes by now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:04, 25 November 2008 (EST)

What the hell is your problem? It's not about "blowing friggen sunshine up my petunia", it's about being polite and caring, two of which you obviously don't have and I have a problem with. If you aren't even going to change, why are you on this site? You know, it's not about "learning the ropes" either, people make mistakes we aren't robots, okay? I am at least trying to change, which you are unwilling about. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:08, 25 November 2008 (EST).

Better to stick to the point and lay off the name-calling. I think the original complaint was valid-- you've been as quick to dole out potentially un-merited praise as you have been to deal incredulous reprimands. (WT-en) Texugo 23:16, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Texugo, I realise that I do it, I've said that, and I am trying to stop it, Okay? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:18, 25 November 2008 (EST).

nice userpage ee

very nice --72.73.88.235 11:43, 22 November 2008 (EST)

some how i copyied at like a bazillion times sorry bout that i deleted them anyway sorry once again. --72.73.88.235 11:47, 22 November 2008 (EST)

One, thankyou, I've been working really hard on it but no one else on this site except Peter has those custom User Pages so I had to go to Wikipedia and look for some neat ones. Second, I don't get your second post? Are you a member on Wikivoyage and just didn't sign in? ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:52, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Central Edmonton map

I'm willing to do the map, but it looks like it will take a while to make with all those streets. Plus due to my massive homework load with finals coming up, it'll likely take even longer. Still, I'll get around to making it. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 16:55, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Thank you very much Perry. Do you have a timeline? Like a week, 5 days, 2 weeks, a month? Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:56, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Nope. I find that if I set a timeline, I'm more likely to fail it. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 17:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Hehe, alright. Thanks anyways! Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:22, 22 November 2008 (EST).

right hand only

In Pakistan we believe that each time you eat or drink with your right hand, you get blessed. Left hand is for cleaning your bum after you use the toilet. Thanks!(WT-en) Raja1020 10:02, 21 November 2008 (EST)

What's Up?

I'am back my friend EE --(WT-en) Hayfield 21:19, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Hey what happened to Donald Landyll? Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:54, 22 November 2008 (EST).

I'am still here EE just under a different name that's all. which one do you want me to use? --(WT-en) DonaldLandryII 22:32, 22 November 2008 (EST)

I don't get why you have two accounts. I don't care which one you use. It would probably be better to use Hayfield because it was your original one and people have gotten to know you around that. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:17, 22 November 2008 (EST).

Help pages

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but regarding this discussion, you do realize that there are a significant number of help pages on this site, right? It's seems odd that you would be able to discover the (WT-en) Evan and (WT-en) Maj started the site without also seeing pages that talk about the current site ownership. Start with the "Help" link in the left nav, and the pages you'll find will answer almost any question you have about Wikivoyage; in particular, Project:FAQ contains answers to frequently asked questions. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:12, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Aye aye aye, I know about Help but I don't look there when I need to ;). Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:16, 23 November 2008 (EST).

Wiki etiquette

→ User talk:(WT-en) Tapirlodge. Quite frankly, what is your problem. Why do you feel the need to pile on abuse when someone does something wrong here? People make mistakes, plenty of new users aren't familiar with how the site works. An appropriate way to deal with this is to gently point them towards how things are done. The way you have been handling cases like this is immature, counterproductive, rude, and reflects poorly on you. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:57, 25 November 2008 (EST)

I can't do anything right on here, right? Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:58, 25 November 2008 (EST).

That's up to you. How would you like it if someone came in here and asked you "What the hell is your problem buddy?" Would that make you want to keep contributing to the project? In fact, in the past, you have indeed reacted negatively to criticism that was much less harshly worded; you should not be surprised when others react negatively to your own criticism.

N.B.: Jani's original message to Tapirlodge was very blunt and potentially rude, but your response made matters worse. Please, try to think twice about what you're typing and whether it will come off as collegial or as adversarial. We value your contributions, EE, but we're all in this together and we need to maintain a civil tone in everything we do.

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 17:30, 25 November 2008 (EST)

I really hope you guys realise I try to do it for the better and that I don't intend things to be that mean. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:34, 25 November 2008 (EST).

→ User talk:(WT-en) Jpatokal#Your writting (sic). EE, I'll be honest. My patience has worn very thin with you. It takes a lot for me to break out this policy (in fact I never have), but you need to hear it: stop being an ass. I think you would benefit from reading that article and really thinking about it. If you cannot interact with other users politely, like an adult, please do not at all. I would strongly encourage you to take a few days off from contributing to reflect on why you continue to pour abuse on other contributors, and what your goals are in contributing to Wikivoyage. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 23:23, 25 November 2008 (EST)

What did I do wrong with Jani? Argh do you just not want me to ever contribute again-I am getting so sick of this it is unbelieable everytime I just try and be helpful I am like beat up or if someone is doing just as bad as I you never talk to them. I am sorry if I am questioning authority but I have seen multiple pages with "It's alright to question or go against my idea, I am equal to you, just am truested with a few mor things"? So am I that bad that you want me to refrain from contributing? I would really prefer not to. I really dont think people realise i try- you just dont have bad habits that are on here. Everyone is out to get me. I am a teenager, not an adult, despite being called mature for my age-I guess I am not. I cannot believe you all hate me. This is so heartwarming. Thanks a lot! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:30, 25 November 2008 (EST).

Should I just not participate in discussion? No? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:34, 25 November 2008 (EST).

Actually, yes, that is what I would advise. Take some time to observe how other people, especially experienced contributors, interact with each other. In the future, I would recommend that you take especial time to consider what you are writing—preview it, check it for grammatical mistakes, and make sure you aren't reacting emotionally. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 23:52, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Why are we supposed to be robots? What are you saying yes to, I said a bunch of things. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 00:35, 26 November 2008 (EST). I am not going to leave Wikivoyage for a few days and you need to realise that I do try but I will drop myself from the majority of discussion for a while.(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 00:35, 26 November 2008 (EST).

OK, This has got to stop! Your sometimes immature behaviour aside, which I can accept since you are actually contributing a great deal to this place, when you're starting to cost us new contributors like Marcus and Tapirlodge things have gotten out of hand, no matter how well meaning your intentions were. You of anyone should be keenly aware how confusing this place can be (take a look at your postings at your talk page, in the pub, or at janitors' talk pages), and you have gotten a very great deal of very patient help from a large number of regulars here - so at the very least, I would expect you to display the same patience to other users, as you obviously have expected yourself. And I am sorry, but I partially agree with Peter here, the only reasonable explanation I can come up with, is that you don't realize you're being blunt and rude, and if that is the case, you better stop doing janitorial work until you get a grasp of what wiki etiquette and courteousness is. The damages made by new and confused users are reversible, the loss of potential contributors is not, and as far is I'm concerned, turning well meaning users off wikivoyage, is the greatest sin one can commit around here. So do what you are doing well - continue your work on Edmonton, and welcome new users, but leave out janitorial work unless you are absolutely sure what you are doing. If a situation like this arises again, you will see me really loose my temper too. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 03:35, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, I take full responsibility over this and you don't realise how bad I do feel. Sorry. Like I said, I will refrain from talk pages, etc. unless I feel welcome or I've already started it-just for a while, seems my good intentions aren't so "good" anymore. And you know what, I won't do the welcome messages just because a lot of these issues arrive from that "in a sense", just give me a week, I will contribute in talk pages, like I said, where I am welcome and where I have started. I am sorry. Could you try and bring back the people I drove away so so stupidly so I know a good way to handle it nexttime? Thank you so much for your politeness Sertmann, it does not go un noticed. Thanks. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:32, 26 November 2008 (EST).

Niterói

Just let it settle, and see how it ends up, and what improvements can be made in the long term. No need for urgent reverts in this case. --(WT-en) Inas 20:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

No but it's really making me mad and he appears to be "touting" his business I believe, enlarging images too much, and of all, adding too many images and is questioning authority/rules via me. I gave it to him clear, and he isn't listening, so we should just let him get away with it? Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:56, 25 November 2008 (EST).

ee, have you read Project:Edit war before? If not, could I highly recommend you do so before reverting further. Cheers, (WT-en) JYolkowski 20:58, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Step away from the computer for a while... when you're writing "pissing me off" and similar sentiments several times a day you need to take a break. It's just a wiki - if an article is defaced for a few minutes, a few hours, a few days, or even a few months it doesn't really matter; someone will eventually fix it, and the history is always there to recover anything that gets deleted. More importantly, however, is to remember that not everyone understands how/why a wiki works - some of the best contributors here started off by making inappropriate edits, so it's very important not to chase users away. If someone is touting their content will get removed, and if they don't understand what they're doing wrong then we can try to teach them. Help people out whenever possible, but don't curse at them, and if you can't follow that advice then just ignore the issue and let someone else deal with it. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:00, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Yes I have. What I don't get is why "Let the baby have his way. It is not your job in life to teach the other person in an edit war that they can't get away with their horrible actions. Just let them. If you don't think that there's a very serious problem with their version, just leave it. Trust that someone else will agree with you, and fix it themselves." Why should I leave it to someone else, someone else might not do anything. Why should you just let them get away with crap when it goes against our rules. You know what-I should start breaking the rules see how you people take it, seriously, because you will all come down harder on me or file me for ban or constantly revert, seriously. Let's see how much I can get away with, eh? What can you guys do, I mean, you've let other people get away with it. Without concequences, there is absolutely no point to the rules...NONE. You guys are pratically advertising on Yahoo, please vandalise here, there is no concequences because we think we are mature about it. Oy...you guys really hate me here and just have no idea of rules. I really want these rules tightened up, do you really think it is fun for me or Peter to constantly revert and revert? NO! We need solid bans in place. I am sorry I am simpoly just speaking my opinion because it's like you guys had a lil too much alcohol. I have been stepping away from the computer for time to cool down then the idiot comes back. I guess them vandalising like that is a "pet peeve". Yes, I am sure people made inappropriate edits, but don't you think me plastering on the Recent Changes to stop and giving a genuine comment in the person's talk page would get them to just at least talk about it? I left a message in his talk page which i really think is fine. I did help him, I pointed out where and why his mistakes are mistakes but he just keeps bringin them back. He's ignoring me. Sorry for the harshness and hope you are well, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:09, 25 November 2008 (EST).

There is no urgency. It can all be fixed over time. Having the article with a poor layout for a few days, just doesn't matter in the scheme of things, make a note to come back and improve it in a week or so. Overall, it will take far less time than an edit war will now. --(WT-en) Inas 21:28, 25 November 2008 (EST)

ee, it's important to try to see this from the point of view of the other party, if possible. Here's some person who's stumbled upon a Wikivoyage article. Maybe he (seems reasonable to assume Marcus is a he) thinks it's kind of interesting, but maybe it's a bit bland and missing some important information. So, he creates an account, uploads some images and edits the article. He comes back five minutes later and finds his changes aren't there anymore. Maybe he isn't as inquisitive as we are. Maybe he doesn't know what the "history" tab or the "recent changes" link are for. Maybe he doesn't know what that flashing red dot by his "my talk" link means. All he knows is that his changes aren't there anymore. So, he adds them again. New contributors are an important resource to any community; without them the community will slowly die, so it makes sense to be welcoming to them. What course of action will make this person most likely to stay? Having his changes undone again and again and again might frustrate him to the point that he leaves and never comes back. Best to just back away for a bit and let him have his way for now. Cheers, (WT-en) JYolkowski 21:54, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Well, don't you think after that many reverts he might want to try out that big red dot at the top? Or is he just that stupid? I know new contributors are important, I've dealt with a bunch. Also, don't you think in a day he comes back and sees his changes undone again he'll get angry and "just leave" because of reasons that you've said. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:57, 25 November 2008 (EST).

The site has been here for years, and has survived every manner of vandal, newbie, and other editor. Every few weeks someone shows up and renames 200 articles something like "New York is Poopy". Someone else will show up and upload porn to 100 articles. Someone else will create tons of articles for non-destinations just to mess with us. It's happened before, it will happen a thousand times again. We've learned from it, and thus you see the policies we have - Project:How to handle unwanted edits, Project:Deletion policy, Project:User ban nominations, etc. Those articles came about after long discussions - read the talk pages for those pages, and you'll understand better. If any editor here "pisses you off" then you won't make it long in the wiki world; don't let them get to you, be patient, and trust that everything works out like it's supposed to because the number of people who want to see good, collaborative travel guides vastly outnumber those who want to tout a business or create mischief. And note that when you complain about others "not following the rules" (guidelines!), the exact same thing can be said about someone who has read Project:Edit war but engages in an edit war, or who has read Project:How to handle unwanted edits but still uses abusive language towards users. I was very skeptical about you when you arrived (still am to some extent), but you've done great work on Edmonton - keep doing the good stuff, and ignore the bad stuff with the understanding that it's really not that big of a deal (really). -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 22:53, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Hello There, My name is Marcus and I am the person editing the article about Niterói. I am new to Wikivoyage, although much of this specific article about Niterói was created by me quite some time ago. Because I am still learning... it took me a while to realize you sent me a message giving me directions. I will give you my opinion, but I will respect yours at the end if you really think that will be the best. First, I am not even sure if I am posting this message at the right place, just hope you can read it an please give me a feedback if you do so. Well, the reason I was excited about this article is because Niterói is my hometown and I would like to show the world a little bit of it... I guess that´s the intention of the site, anyways... I haven´t lived in Brazil for 18 years and my home has been in Florida, USA. I have no personal interest, as you indicated, in promoting the city, other than just been informative and having pleasure on doing so (homesick I guess). I am still working on the article and if it becomes necessary I will add more pages and information to fulfill your regulation although I don´t believe I am doing anything bad. The page pops up really fast on my 5 year old computer and I haven´t exceeded the # of pictures you indicated. I´ve sent a message to my sister in Brazil ( she has a slower bandwidth connection )and she also could see it without any problems. Also, I have traveled the world over and I think I could do my share of contribution on this and many other cities and countries. I have been to every city you mentioned on the message you sent me. Honestly speaking I can find articles about Paris and Chicago anywhere, but not about Niterói, therefore I believe the pictures are well worth a thousand words in this case. The reason I decided to resume building the page now was because I was looking for pictures of beaches in African countries and the return was disappointing to say the least. So, I imagine other people would have the same interest about places less talked about than NY or Montreal. Photography is my hobby and I am proud of the pictures I take. I don't intend to become famous or earn a living off it. I am a flight attendant, happy with my job and it has no relation whatsoever with anything here. Sorry, if for any reason I was annoying you without my knowledge. Morever..........eventually everyone will have faster computers and connections and I truly believe you should not stop anyone from enriching Wikivoyage with tons of pictures... that´s like keeping it away from evolution, setting it up for a Middle Age speed. If anyone loves traveling as much as I do, they will get a cup of coffee and wait patiently for the page to load completely if they are interested on something in particular. I do respect your standards but would appreciate you giving all this a thought. Thank you for reading. (posted by User:(WT-en) Marcusflorida)

PLEASE READ THIS:

You know what, I think YOU are a turn off, not polite at all to be doing this job. Only now I've read the entire conversation bellow (now above) and could realize how rude you are. Your friend, supervisor or whoever he is, was right on the spot about what was happening. I DID NOT realize you were re-editing the article, if that's stupid I don't intend to know everything in life, but I suppose I would have the patience to wait and teach you lots of things I am sure I am an expert and YOU don´t know...

I just thought there was a problem with the site or I was making mistakes when saving it. And no, I did NOT see the HUUUUUUUUUUUUGEEEEEEE red dot on top of the screen.

I will not touch the article anymore because that´s exactly what you would love me to do, so I could feed your anger, frustation and you could go on forever.

I will leave it as it is, although to my judgment it looked much better before, but that´s just MY STUPID opinion.

About not going to Niterói you should think twice... after all if you read the first paragraph on the page you will learn it is nicknamed the ^Smiling City^... guess what?! Perhaps you could really learn to keep smiling...........

Cheers.

P.S. That was my last contribution to Wikivoyage, if you want to read anything else I have written about traveling before go to Epinions.com and look for my nickname CariocaSurfer. I was never ofended that way with my contributions to that site.

(posted by User:(WT-en) Marcusflorida)

Cease and desist

I agree with all above, you need to chill the hell out, I just read some of the various conversations and such you've been involved in and it is waay out of control. I was annoyed even before this point, at the fact that you talk so much and that talk pages become a huge freakin mess because you respond to every little thing that anyone says without thinking first and without actually saying anything useful most of the time, making conversations incredibly hard to follow.

Helping new users and acting as a janitor isn't a goal in and of itself, it's something that some of us do because we've been here a while and understand the nuances of the site and the community. As a certain wise man would say, we're using a scalpel and you've set up shop next to us and started an axe factory.

In short: chill out, continue working on Edmonton quietly, etc, if you care to, and please stay away from unnecessary community interaction. I would also ask that you take some time off of welcoming new editors as well... that suggests that they should come to you if they have questions, and quite frankly you've shown yourself to be unfit for that at this time. Keep in mind that conversations stick around here forever, it's not just a quick interaction... the abuse and lame advise that you've doled out to some users on various talk pages will be viewable for a long time, and is setting a tone that we've been careful not to set. If you actually care as you say you do, and want to make an effort here, you can start by revisiting the conversations you've had everywhere lately and drawing a line through your comments... you can do this by adding <s> and </s> on either side of the lines you wish to strike.

If this continues in any way I will propose that your edits and comments be reverted on sight and possibly even propose a block. You are damaging the site at this point. And please don't respond with some dramatic "you hate me" bullshit, you aren't four – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 11:20, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Well thanks Cacahuate, for three things. 1) Saying I am a baby. 2) Saying I am not useful to conversation here. 3) Having an edit conflict so now the reply to marcus is gone, I know i can go back but it isnt there anymore. Do you really just want me to go, because that is what it seems? Do you want me to be anti social on this site? You don't want me to contribute, basically? Haven't I heard, if you are contributing, you are a help? Mmmhmm...guess I am that exception. Do you want me to go through 400 welcome messages and cross all the way through them all? i know how to do it. So, all of my work, even in articles, would be gone? Now that's real help. Thanks a lot Cacahuate, you are such the nice person. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:34, 26 November 2008 (EST).

Please re-read my post above, I've answered all of those questions already – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 11:52, 26 November 2008 (EST)

The one about what youd revert isn't quite clear. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:54, 26 November 2008 (EST).

If you continue to engage in conversation and practices that are damaging to the site – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 11:57, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, but what would you revert? Like my question, would it include all the article work? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:58, 26 November 2008 (EST).

I support Cacahuate's message to you. I was a very active contributor in the past. Now that I have contributed what I know on the destinations I have visited, my role is simply as a monitor of the site. I for one would encourage you to just go, as you suggest, it would be best for all involved. You nor the site needs the distress that your participation has brought about. (WT-en) 2old 12:01, 26 November 2008 (EST)

thanks now i have tears. you guys are so nice. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:03, 26 November 2008 (EST).

EE, you're doing it again. Stop drawing out a conversation and making it painful to follow. Stop attempting to continually engage in conversation, rather than just clearly reading posts. Stop hitting the edit button without really thinking first. And stop with the dramatic emotion. Just stop – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 12:06, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Hey EE, it seems like you are causing waves of discontent. What happened? Personally, I'd like you to stick around, but you'll need to gain people's trust if you want to do that. Here's my suggestion: just quietly and patiently work on the article for Edmonton (and perhaps other places you have personally visited) until you have totally completed it to your satisfaction. During that time, you should absolutely avoid doing the following: asking questions, dishing out welcomes and offering advise. If you can do that, I'm sure that you'll slowly gain the trust of other contributors - but there can be no exceptions. Just work on the Edmonton articles - period, no ifs and no buts. Can you do that? I cannot advise you about the deletions that Cacahuate recommends as I've not been actively checking your work, but at least you should delete comments that are obviously offensive or misleading - no need to ask which they are. If you put your self in the shoes of the person receiving your advise, it will be obvious. Cheers. (WT-en) WindHorse 12:17, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Cacahuate, what is your problem? I am not a robot, Okay? I have feelings and I am letting them out.

Thanks for the comment WindHorse. Why can't-sorry, should I not ask questions, or not talk to people that I know (Shaund, Local Hero, Stefan, PerryPlanet, and I am thinking you :)) I can get along with, or discuss with my nominations of Destination of the Month. I can bring the talking down to that, and that's what I think I will do-it won't cause any trouble as I really haven't in those areas before. I should be okay with doing talk stuff where I know I will be fine as will others. Other cases, like welcome messages, janitorial stuff, accusing people, giving advise I will refrain from (unless someone asks) for a while (depending on how I feel I am thinking between a week and 2 months). My, and I thought I was making progress here. It is very hurtful what most of you are saying. Thank you very very much for the extremely polite comment, WindHorse, I really do appreciate it. Thoughts? You know, if it weren't for your comment, WH, I would have put myself up for a ban nom and see what peopel think, thankyouverymuch. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:49, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Well, since there hasn't been any opposition (there still can be if it is very valid), I will cut down drastically on where I talk on talk pages. I will only talk directly to the following people: User:(WT-en) Shaund, User:(WT-en) JimDeLaHunt, User:(WT-en) LtPowers, User:(WT-en) Local hero, User:(WT-en) WindHorse, User:(WT-en) Sertmann, User:(WT-en) Cjensen, User:(WT-en) Inas, User:(WT-en) Texugo, User:(WT-en) Hayfield, User:(WT-en) Raja1020, User:(WT-en) Wrh2, and User:(WT-en) PerryPlanet as I know I will be able to get along with them. In other discussions I will keep it to the ones about Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Copenhagen, Winnipeg (inc their districts if they have any) along with all the provinces of Canada and the Canadian article. I will also be active on the Dotm page as I have contributed noms and think I can still contribute there. The top priorities NOT to do will be: no reverting edits unless it is under the stuff I said, no welcome messages, no advice (except to the people I said, although it will be unlikely and probably small), no talking in talk pages except the one's I said, no new articles unless they deal with the places I said, and basically no janitorial stuff, and not talking to the people outside of one's I said, except if they talk to me-and slowly, over time I will begin talking to more people (Cacahuate and Peterfitzgerald will probably at the top of the list). I think it is quite clear. Basically it is really a compromise of what I said and what people have said. Not to mention, with the places I will talk in, there should NOT be any problems. Thank you and I hope to have trust regained and, again, I am sorry. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:39, 26 November 2008 (EST).

My opinion

okay bashing is not good i have been bashed before myself over on wikipedia and other wikis so i know where you people are coming from. EE my friend on wikivoyage please do not let people tell you to go i have seen what you have done here and i think you have done good. You showed up one day i was looking on recent changes and i saw you were new i was like hey cool maybe this guy will really do well here. and you have so anyway you got my vote to stay EE. --(WT-en) Hayfield 19:03, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks Hayfield, you are so kind, one of the best people on this site-especially since you are new. Always keep up the good work! Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:14, 26 November 2008 (EST).

Hey EE, you can count me as one of the people who want you to stay. I think you've made a lot of valuable contributions to Edmonton and western Canada and you're an absolute workhorse (I can't imagine how many years it will take me to reach 3800 edits). But, like Windhorse and some of the others advised, I think you should stick to what you do best (contributing content to pages) and stay away from janitorial duties. I know you're trying to help and you mean well, but giving feedback and dealing with conflict just don't appear to be your strong points right now. And that's not saying all the janitorial work you did was bad -- I saw you make constructive reverts on pages I watch -- but when you miss the mark, you tend to spectacularly miss the mark, which isn't good for you, the other person or Wikivoyage. So, for now, I'd say let things cool down, focus on contributing to the areas you know best, ditch the h08 icon on your user page (it's one of those things that erodes/prevents the trust that Windhorse talked about) and keep your spirits up -- nobody hates you, a lot of people are just frustrated. Cheers (WT-en) Shaund 01:36, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, and thank you for taking the time. Like I said, I will still be in certain talk pages. You know yesterday I had to deal wit te temptation 5 times not to get into differentt alk pages. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 09:57, 27 November 2008 (EST).

Maybe you should start a 'Talk Page Anonymous' for those addicted to adding comments on others' pages... just joking... The advise offered above is for your benefit. Whether you choose to follow or ignore it is obviously your prerogative. However, if you want to establish a friendly working relationship with other contributors and remain a contributor yourself, I seriously suggest that you do so. Cheers and keep up the good work on Edmonton. (WT-en) WindHorse 12:33, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks WH, like I said, I am only going to be in talk pages I know I won't cause a rucus. Does that go against what your thinking? I hope not as it isn't causing any trouble so I don't see the problem plus I can really contribute. As I said, I had to fight the temptation of going in other talk pages. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:40, 27 November 2008 (EST).

I think by now you have got a feel for what is acceptable and what is not, so you can make your own guidelines - though I personally recommend that you just limit your contributions to the Edmonton and Vancouver articles for the time being. Surely there is enough work to be done on these articles to keep you busy without having to delve into other matters. Cheers. (WT-en) WindHorse 12:49, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks again. I will limit it to Western Canada as I can help lots there. You would not recommend talking to anyone or asking questions? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:53, 27 November 2008 (EST).

As I said, by now you have got a feel for what irks others, so you can make your own guidelines, but personally I'd keep a low profile for a while if I were you. You are welcome to ask me questions, but I'm not on line often. In fact, I'm just about to log off. (WT-en) WindHorse 13:00, 27 November 2008 (EST)

And like I said, I know which people and what topics I can get along with. I am glad I am allowed to talk to you ;). Thanks a lot. I think we are agreeing. And, I think I am keepin a low profile. The only mod i've talked to lately is LtPowers but I can get along with him. I haven't talked to Stefan in a while ;). (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:06, 27 November 2008 (EST).

I have started going to the Pub and a few other places and am going to begin some welcome messages. Not too many, but some. Juss an update. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:02, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Thanks for the up-date, but there is no need to let me know about your activities. I'm not a WT policeman. I have offered you friendly advise. It is for you to decide whether to follow or reject it. Anyway, good luck. The Edmonton article looks like it is developing nicely. It is good to see that. (WT-en) WindHorse 22:48, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Hay THX! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:35, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Re: Gallagher

Which image did you mean? I don't see any new ones in the last couple of days. =) (WT-en) LtPowers 19:39, 28 November 2008 (EST)

at the top of the page Edmonton hun. the one you did. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:42, 28 November 2008 (EST).

Well you didn't upload that one, I did. So I assumed you were talking about a different one when you said "I used some effects on it".

ive uploaded a bunch of new ones. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:43, 28 November 2008 (EST).

I've seen those, too, and made a comment. Which ones have effects on them? (WT-en) LtPowers 10:28, 29 November 2008 (EST)

well i got rid of yours and took the originial unedited one. it isnt yours. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 12:23, 29 November 2008 (EST).

Sorry, mine was still showing up in the cache. Didn't mean to take credit for your image! =) The new one looks great. I like the composition and everything. The brightest parts of the clouds are still blown-out, but I think that's unavoidable without taking a new photograph with a high-end camera in ideal conditions. =) (WT-en) LtPowers 13:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah. My big problem is I can't stay still so sometimes my photographs will have noise because of that. Although my camera is pretty good. When the grass gets green again, I'll go back to a few of these sites and take some new pics-just in time for Edmonton as dotm ;). I am also going today for some more picture :). ~30mins. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:33, 29 November 2008 (EST).

Removing duplicate details

Could you do us a favor? For sections like See, Do, and Buy in the main article, we don't need to see a copy of the details like addresses, websites, hours and phone numbers. Those details go only in the district listing. What we need on the main page is only a pointer after the listing name to the appropriate district listing. Could you take care of that change? (WT-en) Texugo 20:02, 1 December 2008 (EST)

I don't really see why we can't. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:07, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Um. It takes up space. Same reason we don't allow any other kind of duplication. Here is just a summary and we just point them to where the details are (the listings in the district article). (WT-en) Texugo 20:09, 1 December 2008 (EST)

So...are you telling me to get rid of the listings and just do a summary or keep it but get rid of the contact information? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:11, 1 December 2008 (EST).

The summaries are fine I think, although if they are a verbatim copy of the listing in the district article I would change them (I haven't checked to see if they are or not). Just remove the contact/hours info and replace it with a link to the appropriate section of the appropriate district article. I could do it myself but it would take me longer since I don't immediately recognize which district each listing is located in. (WT-en) Texugo 20:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

I understand so the listings are okay, but no contact info. I think an address would be fine, that is basic? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:16, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Just leave it off and tell what district to find it in. The district article is where the details are. (WT-en) Texugo 20:18, 1 December 2008 (EST)

I will do it soon. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:19, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Thanks dood. (WT-en) Texugo 20:20, 1 December 2008 (EST)

np. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:25, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Admin nominations

EE, please do not make any more admin nominations, period. First, you do not at all have a good handle on when this is appropriate. But way more importantly, if you would look through the history of admin nominations, you would notice that they have only been made by senior admins. While that's obviously not a requirement, it should convey something to you.

It remains bewildering to me that you are utterly incapable of picking up on and following community norms, or having the basic humility to understand that you are new around here, very unfamiliar with the way things work, and should defer to people on important issues who have put in years of hard work and gained the respect of the Wikivoyage community. Administrator nominations is a particularly sensitive issue (and therefore one to which you are uniquely unsuited) because we rarely hand out these privileges, and because a premature nomination that elicits objections can alienate the nominee.

In case I'm not clear, please do not make another admin nomination again. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 13:45, 3 December 2008 (EST)

You are being so rude when I am only trying to help. What is with these out of my mind unwritten rules? I never read that non admins can't or should not nomination. For your information, I made sure that they were applicable. What am I unreliable? What is the matter? I dont get why this is such a big deal and I do not get where I went wrong. I am just trying to help, do you not want me to do that? Maybe someone should make a page of unwritten rules so they are clear because with out them they are not really emposed as they arent real. I am sorry if I messed up but you should not dismiss my nom just cause I am not a sysop. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:53, 3 December 2008 (EST).

Also, what if I wanted to nominate my self? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:56, 3 December 2008 (EST).

I did not dismiss your nomination because of who you are—that should be patently obvious to even the most thick-skulled. I've already given the answers to these other questions. I've put considerable work into this site, and care a lot about it. If AHeneen were to feel insulted by a failed admin nomination, and therefore felt less inclined to contribute here, that would be a terrible loss for the site.

I think you do a good deal more harm than good here (that should be rather apparent from the unprecedented level of frustration you have generated among many contributors), and that's why I'm short with you. The fact that you are "only trying to help"—that is, I think you may be possibly acting in good faith—is the only reason I haven't nominated you for a user ban. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:05, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Other than the Marcus, etc. incident I don't see what trouble I have caused. If you really dont like me, then I will post myself up for ban if that is really how you feel. I don't really get it and I am sorry. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:10, 3 December 2008 (EST).

Part of the problem is that you don't get it, ee. It's just a lack of understanding. You mean very well, and you have done great -- fantastic, even -- work with Edmonton. But you seem to be inexperienced at working with other people on a collaborative project. Communication is not your strongest suit, and it shows in your interactions with others here. That's what's causing the friction.

I believe I saw you say somewhere that you were a teenager. That shows, too. There's nothing wrong with being a teenager; in fact, it means you have a lot more time and energy than some of the rest of us do. But that also means you need to learn how to slow down and work with the rest of us. No one said that'd be easy, but if you want to be come a valued contributor instead of just a tolerated one, then it's something you will have to learn.

That's why you were advised to stick to what you've been doing best -- namely, writing about Edmonton. For everything else, just sit back and observe. Watch. Read. Learn. See what we do, and how we do it. I know we do things slowly, but we as individuals aren't going to speed up. The site can only accelerate if we amass more contributors, and to do that we need to be a welcoming, casual environment -- not a harried, frustrated, angry one.

If you have questions, ask someone. Plunging forward is great for editing articles, but not so great when it comes to interacting with the other Wikivoyageers. When it comes to the latter, a more measured approach is necessary.

You've learned a lot already, but there's still far to go. Keep up the good work.

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 14:27, 3 December 2008 (EST)

See now that is it! Thank you LtPowers, why, why why why, couldn't you be as polite Peter? anyways, thank you for the nice words about Edmonton but I don't get why people don't see other places I work lots (Calg, Van, Winni, Alb), anyways I am thankful. So, are you saying that I don't collaborate well with anyone? I think that me and you and a few others get along :). Anyways, yes I am a teenager. So, are you saying I should only work on Edmonton and that is it? Anyways, thanks! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 17:35, 3 December 2008 (EST).

EE, we've all been nice and shown waaaay more patience than we probably should have. you continue to cause trouble, and every time you're questioned on it you fall back on the "you hate me" line. Nobody is here working on WT wanting to hold you hand every day, we all have other things to do... it's time for you to shape up. Focus on Edmonton, stay out of community stuff. This couldn't be put any more clearly now. This is turning into disruptive editing and isn't acceptable – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 19:11, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Note I did not say hate! Anyways like I said if you want me to, I will put my self for ban nom ;). I cannot believe I am causing this much trouble. This site is so odd, on one hand you are light with rules, yet dealing with me I get it rrrreaaaalllll strict. I am glad I am appreciated right now. Also, some of you should choose words better (no fense) cause it is a little rude to me right now, I normally wouldn't find it but I am in a bit of a mood [Somthn occured] that any little thing will throw me off. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:17, 3 December 2008 (EST).

EE, you are not one to be criticizing others for their tone. Anyway, I'm not saying you "don't collaborate well with anyone". I said you need some work in that skillset. There's a big difference. You often read our comments in the absolutely worst possible light; please don't do that. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:40, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Well anyways, thanks and Lt I understand. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 22:35, 3 December 2008 (EST).

EE, I again remind you of my suggestions I made earlier (filed under 'Cease and Desist') and of the possibly consequences that might arise if you did not heed them. For your own good, I strongly recommend that you read them again and act accordingly. Can you do that - at least until you have been around a little longer and are more in sync with the way things flow? Cheers. Keep up the good work on Edmonton and BC (WT-en) WindHorse 00:43, 4 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for the words WH. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:13, 4 December 2008 (EST).

Edmonton maps

No, I'm afraid I haven't started working on either map for Edmonton. Finals are coming up and I've been very busy with homework lately. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 18:27, 5 December 2008 (EST)

No problem just asking. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:29, 5 December 2008 (EST).

Blocks and protections

Instead of running your head against a wall, you should try and change your approach, and rebuild some confidence back in your name, as it has all but vanished.

Personal attacks will no be accepted, even on your own talk page, and it will be reverted on sight
Don't welcome new users, at the moment you are clearly not in line with our established policies, so we don't really want users turning to you for help at the moment, it will be reverted on sight.
Don't make any new nominations (admin, OTBP/DOTM, star) you don't really seem to grasp the underlying policies/agreement. But you are welcome to comment on nominations other users suggest, and giving some meaningful comments, would be an excellent way of rebuilding some trust to your name.
Never, ever, start an edit war (each and every time you do this, I would be inclined to give you a 2 hour block).

You'd probably also want to avoid pleading to be victimised on my, Peter, Ryan (wrh2) and Janis talk page, it's going to be reverted - if others want to listen fine - but if you want to be accepted here, you'd probably also want to avoid that too. On the other hand

You are welcome to contribute to guides.
You are welcome to comment on nominations.
You are welcome to discus guides on the various talk pages (but a nice tip would be not to plead for a response if you don't get one)

Period, until I see your behaviour change, I am not going to discuss this any further. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 22:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Thank you Sertmann for talking. I really wanted someone to talk. I really do a ppreciate it. Thank you for the notice on the personal attacks, I didn't know that. I talked to him anyways. I can understand not welcoming new users. Totally see. The thing is, that, if I made one already, it shouldn't be reverted, it should be left. If I were notified much better I would not have. Okay, on the otbp/dotm, I think I can still make new noms. I made a few stupid ones, but Canberra and Edmonton were good ones and I think I can keep that up. I won't do it often- but sometimes. I try to not start an edit war but I just can't not because my point isnt getting across. I don't remember "victimising" with anyone but peter. Thanks for all the help and I will try and stick to it :)! keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 22:56, 10 December 2008 (EST).

Winnipeg

Take a closer look at the article status criteria. The Winnipeg article has transportation info and multiple complete listings for See, Do, Eat, Drink, and Sleep. It gives the traveler several options for spending time in the city. That means it's a guide. A weak guide, but a guide nonetheless. Having done half of Chicago and its districts, I can say from experience that the gap between 'usable' and 'guide' is a lot smaller than the gap between 'guide' and 'star'. That last step is the long one. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:41, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Alright thankyou. I will keep it in mind. It is kind of like a few of Edmontons districts, weak usables :). I understand. I'll try and make it as true guide. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:58, 12 December 2008 (EST).

Routeboxes

I definitely plan on rolling out the routebox once Texugo gives it the OK. I agree we need symbols (although I think the QE symbol is unnecessary), but we should also have city pages created for reasonable-sized stops along the way. For example, Lytton, Sicamous and Strathmore along the Trans-Canada highway and a few more along QE Highway 2.

Any symbols used on the Vancouver/Edmonton maps were either part of the template or I drew them myself. The Trans-Canada symbols are part of the public domain so they're free to use. They can be found at Wikimedia Commons. (WT-en) Shaund 20:52, 14 December 2008 (EST)

The TransCanada ones aren't free to use - that is why I was wondering. I don't think QEII is unneccessary, it is the most used highway in Alberta - it definitely deserves the proper logo. Anyways - I will help ya with BC. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 22:48, 14 December 2008 (EST).

Hi EE, I'm not sure what the status of the TransCanada signs are exactly. I've seen a number of public domain ones floating around Commons, and I've seen others which are copyrighted (although one indicated the copyright expires in 2009). The public domain designs, which are in the link I posted above, are similar to the ones used in the Canada maps on WT and the ones we'd use in the routebox. I don't have a link to other provinces. I'd search Commons, try something like "highway shield" (that's the phrase that worked best for me), and then refine it from there.

As for how to create highway shields, you're not going to like the answer -- I use Inkscape. :) It's not a map, so a program like Photoshop could probably be used to create PNG files, but the best practice would be to create an SVG frame of the shield in a program like Inkscape and make all the required highway signs for a province based on that graphic. But, as others have said, it's best not to try to recreate something that looks the same and just go for a super-generic circle/square/pentagram thingy. It's unlikely, but companies do go after look alike symbols sometimes.

BTW -- you got an Alberta sign, I've made a generic BC sign and the TransCanada signs are linked above. I think we have enough to start once the expedition is good to go. (WT-en) Shaund 01:27, 16 December 2008 (EST)

I don't see the link to those files, anyways since you've obviously done it, I guess I don't needa worry. Anyways, I know you think it is unneccessary and I am pickish on it, but the Queen Elizabeth Highway Two is the heavily used highway in the province and is very major and deserves the proper logo. I hope you understand. Good job! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:33, 16 December 2008 (EST).

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the necessity of the QE2 sign. It is copyrighted though, so any use of it or something that looks like it is a potential issue.

The link to the TC signs are in the second paragraph of this Routebox section -- the part that says Wikimedia Commons. - (WT-en) Shaund 22:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)

"This image is ineligible for copyright and therefore in the public domain, because it consists entirely of information that is common property and contains no original authorship." Means we can't use it. Anyways, maybe a free QEII one will pop up, it's as heavily used as TransCanada or a major highway in Lower Mainland or the Series 400. Hope you get it. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 00:35, 17 December 2008 (EST).

If the image is ineligible for copyright, we can use it. But the QEII Highway shield is not ineligible for copyright: . However, I note that the base Alberta highway shield is apparently in the public domain; it's the drawing of the crown with flower that is copyrighted. I would suggest using that base shield with a purple fill and maybe "QEII" or "Queen Elizabeth II Highway" in white, without the crown/flower drawing. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:12, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks, LT I will definitely try that thank you. As for TC, I guess I didn't know, today I'll see I will upload some. Anyways, I just am overemphasising QEII because Shaund (no offense, really!) is not saying it isn't important - which it is. But thank you Shaund for the words aswell, forgot to thank you. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:36, 17 December 2008 (EST).

I guess I should have explained why I thought the QE2 symbol wasn't as necessary :). Basically, I'm concerned that we're making it more complicated for the traveller. From what I've been able to read, the road is still highway 2, it just has the additional designation that it's the QE2 highway between Edm and Calgary (like the 401 in Ontario is also the MacDonald-Cartier Freeway and the 99 in BC is also the Sea-to-Sky highway). In which case, we can always label it Hwy 2 or we can label it Hwy 2 above Edmonton and below Calgary and the QE2 in between. Both would be right, but the first option is simpler (and I generally prefer the simplest method). I'm not as hung up on this it probably sounds, just wanted to explain my rationale. (WT-en) Shaund 13:58, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Highway Two goes from Grande Prairie to the American Border (s of Calgary). The leg between Edmonton and Calgary is the QEII. This part of the highway is the most heavily used in all of Alberta's highways. It also has a seperate logo and because it is major, it should still be getting it's seperate logo, as those other highways. On Google Maps it still uses the generic highway symbol because even a few other ones that have the different name like that , but officially it is that logo. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:03, 17 December 2008 (EST).

I did so : . (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:53, 17 December 2008 (EST).

Edmonton CotM

Hi EE, I can certainly help with an Edmonton CotM. Mostly I'd be helping with grammar, organization, MoS issues (I'll probably be in the midst of house renovations, so I won't have time for in-depth stuff like maps). (WT-en) Shaund 18:39, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Thank you very much Shaund. I don't really need maps from you if you're busy, and if I do, it would only be for minor edits to the map of Districts. If you feel like, you can do a map, I have all kinds that I would like, but you don't have to. Anyways, hope your housing renos go well. If you want, I can help start the BC routeboxes (Interior BC in areas like Yoho and Kelowna). Oh wait - I need the BC Highway ones...eh well. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:43, 17 December 2008 (EST).

Well, as I said before, now is not a good time to be proposing new CotMs, since we're trying to move to a new system—the current schedule is definitely going to be replaced with a brand new one, since we're not even going to be using the tri-CotM format. I think Edmonton could work very well as a CotM, as could several others on that list, but I'd have a number of objections to the Edmonton nomination as it is currently written, objections that I'd be happy to flesh out using the new system's process of voting/review.

I'd like to see all of the current nominations either rewritten or dropped altogether, because I think the way we have been writing nominations is impeding the success of the CotM project. That's why I say we'll use the current page as an archive. I intend the Mexico City nomination to be somewhat of a model, although that too may change as we start overhauling the whole system. But in any rate, lets not get ahead of ourselves—I'll be rolling out my ideas very soon. Sooner than I thought, actually—my travel plans for this weekend just got delayed, so I'll have time to work on it now. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:20, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Hey. Thanks for the reply. I know you said that it isn't a good time, actually, I've stopped new noms. But the Edmonton one was just after Sertmann proposed it and we didn't know where we were actually going with it, as the Calgary one. That is why I still think they should stay. Any of the noms that were made before the decision was made to do the new format should get a second chance in the new version, I really hope Edmonton will be the next CotM, cause I have been planning it because I didn't think the change would happen in January, which would mean this would really suck. Will there even be a CotM next month? I can reformat my nominations for the ones that were made Pre decision, cause I'd like them to get a shot and I have my reasons. It is kind of unfair but I guess we'll see how it goes . .. sigh. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:38, 18 December 2008 (EST).

Props

Wow. I just checked out your userpage. Props on all the work. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 18:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Hey thanks! I worked hard on it - I am still not done with it. I keep changing it cause I don't know what to do with it really. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:21, 19 December 2008 (EST).

Disclaimers, again

Please stop insisting on putting disclaimers on everything. This is the third time it's come up, and my reasoning is the same as the first two times, and others agreed with me: if we allow these, then we might as well put them at the top of every section in every article we have. (WT-en) Texugo 12:27, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Edmonton districts

I'll be watching with interest to see how the Edmonton districts and discussion work out. Some of the districts in Sydney have three levels. The first for Sydney metro, the next for the district, and the third for tourist hotspots within the region. I quite like that structure, otherwise the region can be to geographically large for people just interested in visiting the hotspot. The amount of attractions seems the best guide as to where to district. --(WT-en) Inas 19:53, 22 December 2008 (EST)

thanks inas, I appreciate your view. Anyways, Edmonton is much smaller than Sydney, so three levels of districts wouldn't work. Some of the regular districts themselves already have trouble filling up. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:56, 22 December 2008 (EST).

Hey EE, I've posted the revised Edm map. Let me know if there's anything missing. Cheers. (WT-en) Shaund 01:34, 28 December 2008 (EST)

Blocked again

I've blocked you again for again edit warring. You've had this explained to you way more than is reasonable, and I'm not inclined to give you any latitude on this sort of abuse. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:02, 31 December 2008 (EST)

I don't understand how I was being abusive - because I wasn't so quit making up this stuff. Just because you don't like me or have a twisted pleasure of makin me mad doesn't mean you can revert my edits which are against no rules. I have been more than nice to you but you can't be nice at all for some reason - yes I have been rude to you but only cause you have been to me. If you even understood my side you'd realize that you guys aren't communicating everything I am doing wrong - otherwise we wouldn't have a problem. Peter - you provoked me to edit war because you know that reverting edits without reason will make me change it back and just because you are top admin doesn't mean you don't need to give reasons. But you know what, I am just gonna keep writting travel guides and ignoring the crap this site has ben givin me because it causes too much stresss so you know what keep getting away with everything because with every story I am the only one who knows both sides - the one that's there now and the one that was reverted with out a particular topic! Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:00, 1 January 2009 (EST).

No one makes you do anything, EE. Only you are responsible for your own actions. The solution is simple: do not engage in persistent reversions back and forth, especially not with Peter. If Peter reverts something you wrote and you find it unjustified, contact someone else and ask that third party to weigh in on the dispute. (Normally, I would suggest discussing it with Peter, but he has demonstrated a complete unwillingness to engage in discussion with you, so that would be fruitless.) Several administrators are taking an increasingly dim view of your community interactions, and so I suggest doing what you can to appease them for the time being, and in this case, that means asking for outside opinions rather than blindly reverting. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:03, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Thank you for the post, but won't Peter just revert that. He is being such a jerk.(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:19, 2 January 2009 (EST).

Hi EE, I just want to comment on this "I'm not reading all of the comments because it's wasting my time" stuff because it irks me quite a bit. While I understand it can be boring and it takes up your time, keep in mind that it forces the rest of us to do more work repeating stuff that has already been discussed and fixing errors you've made (that could have been avoided if you had taken more than a cursory glace at the discussion). Like you, we all have things we want to work on, and most of us don't want to repeat a discussion that's happened before. If someone makes the effort to post a link to the previous discussion and you decide to only read part of it because that's all you want to do, you're going to piss most people off. If you're going to take part in a policy discussion, be it on a wiki or the workplace, people expect you to know and understand where the discussion is at and how it got there. Getting people to repeat the discussion over again from square one is just wasting everyone else's time. It's always better to bring fresh ideas to the discussion or new reasons that a policy should be changed. So, yeah, you don't have to read all of the comments, but you'll get a lot more respect from the community and fewer reverted edits if you do.

BTW - Peter did explain why he reverted your original post in the travellers pub. It's in the history page -- "not reading it is wasting everyone else's time. Declaring that you will do so is a pointless irrelevant provocation that should be reverted". You may or may not agree with it, but it was explained. (WT-en) Shaund 15:23, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Thank you Shaund for that. Anyways, I know Peter gave information as to why that was reverted but not to why my comments on his user talk were reverted.(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:41, 2 January 2009 (EST).

Peter is allowed to do anything with his user talk page that he likes. It's the same for you - if you don't want his comments (or my comments, or anyone else's comments) on your user talk page, just delete them. Your user talk page is under your control. The advice above from Shaund and LtPowers, by the way, is very good advice. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:52, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Then why did he say before inas became jani that he had to bring back all the deleted stuff ?(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:41, 3 January 2009 (EST).

Blanking your talk page

Doing "whatever" you want on your talk page does not extend to deleting relevant discussion and comments. When I remove comments you have placed, I do so because they are abusive, irrelevant, or otherwise unproductive. I'm stricter with you about this than I am for other users, because you do not heed the advice/warnings given to you on this talk page, and you have done damage to the site accordingly. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 19:08, 6 January 2009 (EST)

In general, discussions are not deleted... as Peter already told you, you can archive your talk page, which I would recommend anyway as it's getting quite long. See my talk page for an example if you're unclear. Create User talk:(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast/2008 and move all of these discussions there. Then put an link to it at the top of this page. But deleting it is unnacceptable – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 19:26, 6 January 2009 (EST)

The reasons I remove your comments (frequently, sadly) are described here, and you have already read that discussion (although you do seem unable to correct your behavior accordingly, or perhaps even remember anything anyone says to you. The discussions on this page are very relevant, and frankly necessary. Above all so that other users can understand why you receive a heavy hand for inappropriate behavior, and so other users can understand quickly that your mode of conduct is not condoned by the Wikivoyage community, and should not be emulated. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:13, 6 January 2009 (EST)

{{{1}}}

With all due respect, I don't see any rules or existing consensus over what users may or may not do to their Talk pages. Immediately above this section, User:(WT-en) Gorilla Jones told EE that It's the same for you - if you don't want his comments (or my comments, or anyone else's comments) on your user talk page, just delete them. Your user talk page is under your control, so if anything, he was doing as he was told! See Project:Deletion policy#Blanking talk pages. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:45, 7 January 2009 (EST)

To make this clear, blanking your page full of relevant discussions, which many well-meaning contributors spent a good deal (too much) of their time writing is not acceptable behavior. Nor will it achieve anything you would desire, because I will copy the text of your user talk page to my own userspace, and reference it every time I make any comment in reference to you. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:29, 7 January 2009 (EST)

You can do whatever the hell you want I am not gonna attempt to control you like you do me. I know people have put effort and good time into it, and I will still use it just by going into history. You need to calm down. By saying what you just did - you are attempting to control me because this will mean I perhaps won't delete it and stuff so you know what I am not going to let you do that. You have a nice night though. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 22:38, 7 January 2009 (EST).

Blocked again

I have blocked you again for edit warring. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:13, 6 January 2009 (EST)

The block has been removed pending discussion on Project:Using talk pages#Blanking talk pages. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:46, 7 January 2009 (EST)

"Taking sides"

Regarding , the purpose of discussions is not for people to "take sides". It's to attempt to reach consensus through addressing others' arguments and attempting to find common ground. Feel free to delete this message, I'll know that you've read it (-: Cheers, (WT-en) JYolkowski 18:13, 8 January 2009 (EST)

I do know it is not about sides per se. And I am not keeping count on whos on what side all I am saying is that everyone was on Peters side or ignoring it but now there is real discussion and people are saying no to Peter thankfully. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:15, 8 January 2009 (EST).

"arrogancies"

I've blocked you from editing for 24 hours for edit warring, in accordance with your previous warnings on the subject. "arrogancy" can be defined as an "offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride." That's an insult, and is not appropriate for talk page discussions. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:01, 9 January 2009 (EST)

I rescinded the block, but, do not think that means I side with you EE or with Gorilla. It's temporary until more people can weigh in on such a move. You would be wise not to add "facts" that may harm another person's psyche -- the Golden Rule, my friend.

Gorilla - are we supposed to work on this site with a face that is so fake it is going to crack and where we lie so we don't get in trouble? Or are we one that is gonna be vocal about if they want something changed, are angry, and have a negative opinion of someone. You can't sugar coat it. It may be harsh - but it should be said. Grow up - and you are the adult? I don't mean to be rude, but it is simply how I feel. I am not saying we should completely humiliate a person till they cry, although Peter surely doesn't have much a problem with that. But, we should definitely not be ridiculed for having a negative opinion. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:59, 11 January 2009 (EST).

I never told you to "grow up". And I don't care how you feel. I'm not your therapist or your guidance counselor. My job is to explain the rules when you've broken them. For the record, the comment beginning "I rescinded the block..." was written by User:(WT-en) Sapphire, who didn't sign his name. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 20:10, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Yes I know Sapphire did that comment. What I don't get is why this site does not have a heart? You people have no feelings, I am not kidding ,you are robots. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 15:59, 12 January 2009 (EST).

Re: peter

Copied from my talk page:

Right, this stops now. Peter is not responsible for your actions. I don't care how much he provokes you, it is your responsibility, and yours only, to react in a calm and civil manner. Period. If you can't do that, then you don't have much of a future on this site, because right now you are irreparably damaging your reputation. I can't emphasize enough that you are on extremely thin ice. You don't take constructive criticism well, and you don't demonstrate an understanding of the consequences of your actions. You promised to stay out of contentious conversations and just focus on editing travel guides, but you haven't done that. Dealing with you has occupied an inordinate amount of time for me and several other people on this site.

Do you want to know why Peter reverts your edits so often? It's because it's quicker than explaining something to you over and over and over again. I personally would not do that, and have not, but these longtime editors don't want to deal with interpersonal problems on Wikivoyage; they just want to write travel guides. Your behavior obstructs that goal, by requiring a lot of attention, and that's why people are upset with you.

I will reiterate what I said above: You will do best by working on your areas of expertise while observing the way the community operates without your participation, and learning from that observation. You must ignore any conversation that doesn't directly deal with editing travel guides. You must ignore Peter no matter what he does. You must not participate in policy discussions. I am not imposing these restrictions on you; I am merely outlining what steps I think you are going to have to take to have any chance of avoiding being banned.

I will copy this post to you talk page to make sure you see it. -- (WT-en) LtPowers 09:02, 9 January 2009 (EST)

If I may also interject, EE, occasionally I have to just ignore things on Wikivoyage. It's called a wikibreak and sometimes they're needed -- just stop working on things and get your bearing about you and start contributing when you want to again. It doesn't have to be an all out vacation or break, but, if you feel like you're getting to your wits' ends, simply do not focus on perpetuating the issues that you and Peter have been having. Simply take a few steps back, focus on contributing to guides and that's it. Do, however, realize that you shouldn't disregard advice from the community -- we're all here to see a free, open source travel guide that's useful take root and better the world for travelers and the community provides you with advice because we all want to be successful in the project. I recommend that you listen to LT and focus on your areas of expertise and letting the conflict simmer down so that everyone around can take a step back and analyze the situation from a not-so-heated perspective. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 11:27, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Sapphire quite honestly, I have been taking a "wikibreak". Look at my contributions, I haven't really done anything. I only recently have because of a new policy talk which centred around me. I literally have no motivation to continue on this site, and why would I? There are no rewards (which I'm fine with) and everyone on here makes me feel unwelcomed. Why should I even both trying to run a CotM or make a star article? It's pointless. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:28, 9 January 2009 (EST).

Why did you come here in the first place? Is that reason still valid? If so, do you need any other motivation? (WT-en) LtPowers 18:48, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Hi EE, I noticed your recent message on Lt Powers talk page and the Deletion policy talk page and wanted to comment and provide some (hopefully helpful) advice.

First off, Peter deleting your comment. Reading through it, I found the tone on the provocative side. Saying stuff like "you and Peter are truly the only culprits" and "deal with me in a proper way" is only going to raise tensions further and when you're trying to make a point or get someone to respond to you in a constructive manner, that's one of the worst things you can do. I believe you've also been told in the past to watch the wording/tone of your comments. A number of admins (and I'm guessing Peter is one of them) take the position that if a user repeatedly makes provocative/aggressive/insulting comments after being advised they shouldn't, then the comment will be reverted.

Another example of this is your post to Lt Powers page, where you used language like "is getting quite arrogant". I do understand that it's hard to write something calm and civil when you're upset, angry, etc (I come from a family that likes to speak their mind). Regardless of how you're feeling though, and whether you're right or wrong or both, it's nothing more than a quick way to irritate the other person and get the comment reverted. And saying I was frustrated or provoked into it doesn't work. The people who best negotiate their way through conflict situations are those who stay calm, regardless of the provocations, and don't say things the other side can see as an insult. Your post would have been more effective if you had simply ended with "Why did Peter delete that?".

As a smaller point, jumping into Nrms' comment thread also seemed unnecessary. It was a discussion between Nrms, Peter and Cacahuate about the actions Peter was taking. You don't need to interject your side, many of us know it and we can all read the recent changes and the history and get up to speed pretty fast on what happened.

Finally, posting this comment string on Project:Deletion policy. First of all, as Ryan said when he reverted it, it was already covered on other pages. But secondly, there is a time to talk and make your case and there is a time to stop and keep quiet, and in my opinion, you do too much of the first and not enough of the latter. As I said above, we can all read the recent changes and the history pages and figure out what is going on. You don't need to repost comments from other pages and jump into discussions. As Sapphire and Lt Powers mentioned earlier, the best way you can help yourself right now is to take a break or do what you're good at (working on Edmonton, Alberta, Vancouver, Winnepeg, etc). Just lurking around and posting comments on talk pages repeating your position isn't going to help us move on, which is what I think we all need to do.

Cheers - (WT-en) Shaund 22:52, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Getting back on track

You have done a really nice job with the Edmonton pages, which are vastly improved over what they were in the summer , and hate to see you sidetracked. Try to stay focused on content, and avoid the project pages and talk pages, unless discussion specifically pertains to improving articles. If you need to, clear out your watchlist of all non-article pages. (that worked well for me on Wikipedia)

If you can get back on track with the Edmonton pages, I would be happy to provide some assistance. I did live in Edmonton for several years and do remember spending a lot of time ice skating in Hawrelak Park, as well as some of the indoor places (for free!). Also, spent plenty of time rollerblading along the river in the summer, cross-country skiing in the winter, and even playing ice hockey :) And Canada Day was tons of fun. Though it's been a few years since I was there. Now, I'm probably not too up-to-date on things, and might recommend restaurants that no longer exist. :( However, I could provide some peer review and guidance.

My time is fairly limited, so I would want you to stay focused on the articles and I can make some time to help. But, if you keep responding to drama on talk and project pages, then I don't see things being productive, and probably not worth my time to help. Let me know what you want to do. Cheers. (WT-en) Aude 19:40, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Aude. Unfortunately the drama of this site is not worth editing anymore - I have lost that motivation that I actually once had. Sad as it is. Peter is the main culprate, I don't care how you put it, and Cacahuate doesn't help. They label me terribly and well - lets not bore you with it. Anyways, give me a week, and I will get back to you on if I want to work some more on this website. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:42, 10 January 2009 (EST).

User block 2009-01-09

Hi Peter,

Just wondering what the block situation with Edmontonenthusiast tonight was about. I see nothing in his contrib log before the initial ban was put in place, and there is no obvious reason given for that block. Does an admin undo remove the edit record from the user's contrib log? You comment about Marc being w.in bounds of policy I find hard to justify when the raon of edit war-ing is given, but with no obvious trail. If things are removed from the user's contrib log on an admin undo, can I strongly suggest these be avoided so that the history is preserved so that people can see the edit war that was going on.

To be quite frank, I am starting to tire of this whole situation between yourself and Ee... While you are an admin (and a sysop?) and therefore a community member I has respect for, the constant battle between yourself and Ee is starting to get overboard. Yes, I know other admins have been involved, but it is your name that I see far more than anyone else's when dealing with Ee. I am not condoning his behaviour... I agree he has acted childishly at times, and against advice of others. However, he does appear to be trying to take things on board, but it's also clear that the 2 of you are now merely provoking each other, and it's going to cause more harm than good. The only way you are going to get through to Ee is to ban him. Remeber, he is young and so probably not used to this sort of collaborative environment and working with other people. However, the war this is turning into is not going to help him develop those skills; and, it has to be said, he is the future!

Can I suggest that you step back from the situation... There are other admins who Ee seems to listen to and who are, perhaps, more willing to take the time to re-educate him without things descending into a war between 2 people. Yes, I know others have tried and lost patience, but I would much rather someone who can get through to Ee take over and try and deal with this is a more constructive way. Plus there are many of us on here who are happy to do monitoring work to take care of any obvious problems.

I'm sorry if you are unhappy with anything I have said here Peter, and I hope you understand I am trying to take this from a totally neutral standpoint. I've not been here as long as you, and realise that as someone who has risen to the rank of admin you have put a lot of time and effort into the site. But I want to be clear that I am not taking anyone's side... As I said above, Ee has really not helped himself, but I do feel both parties here are now just provoking each other, which is only going to spiral into anarchy or a lot of bad fallout. However, I am just trying to be honest and offer a view on this from someone who has tried to remain as outside of the situation as possible.

As Ee himself would say, Keep Smiling! and I am more than happy to listen to anything anyone else has to say on the matter and try to find a constructive way forward for everyone for the sake of the project.

(WT-en) Nrms 17:03, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Peter's the flavor of the moment but by no means acting alone or without support, this situation has nothing to do with Peter... we've all taken turns. EE's age has nothing to do with this either, a 16 year old ran the Spanish version nearly singlehandedly for ages, the Hindi version was launched by a 14 year old, and star articles have been written by 18 year olds... all who had the desire and took the time to watch how a wiki community works, and adjust their actions accordingly. At this point I feel it's better that we stop continually discussing this case, everyone get back to writing travel guides, and just know that that his leash is still quite short and will remain so into the distant future – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 20:49, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Because this involves me, I do want to add my side to this. Quite frankly, Cacahuate, Nrms is right, but he leaves you out. You and Peter are truly the only culprates to not helping this and I agree with him in that you two step aside to people who will deal with me in a proper way. If you feel I should be banned, discuss it with another admin,okay? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:48, 10 January 2009 (EST).

Peter's talk page

Remember how everyone agreed that you can delete comments from your talk page? That applies to Peter, too. If you can delete comments from your talk page, he can delete comments from his talk page. So if he deletes your comments from his talk page, leave it alone. Focus on something else. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:30, 11 January 2009 (EST)

You haven't got a clue do you? When I deleted my stuff:

1) at first I got temp banned for it and it got reverted

2) drew out a big kufuful

3) I had very valid reasoning for it

4) Peter (got to love him) recreates it in a new page

When Peter deletes only my stuff:

1) it has gone on for a long time

2) not once has anyone questioned it

3) has never given any reason that has actual proof, ie being abusive, which I have not done to his talk

4) even when the comments are super duper guper loper nice they are reverted

Maybe after reading this you can see my frustration. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:34, 11 January 2009 (EST).

This rule is very simple. You are allowed to delete comments from your talk page. You deleted comments from your talk page. But if you can delete comments from your talk page, he can delete comments from his talk page, too. That's all there is to it. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:42, 11 January 2009 (EST)

My comments weren't deleted look at that retarded EEarchive. You all say tone is very important when doing a comment, well Gorilla use a better tone. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:44, 11 January 2009 (EST).

Edmonton, you're doing this "why is everyone so unfair to me" thing again! While I don't necessarily agree with how Peter has handled the situation, are you just as much to blame. I hate to say this, but are you aware that you havn't contributed to guide articles in the past week or so, bar a couple of undoings of grafitti/vandalism, but your contrib page is full of comments on user pages? I like what you've done on the articles you have worked on and I hope you stay around to refine your existing work and expand on it with new destinations as you travel. However, your continued tales of woe are just as distracting as Peter's continual battle against you.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being harsh, but I am not taking sides... You ahve seen my comments to Peter are just as full of frustration. However, I really do think you need to lay low... Keep doing what you do best which is contributing to the guide articles, try and keep out of Peter's way, and if you really must regale us with tales of woe, find a friendly user and use/abuse (wtih their permission!) their talk page (and agree a mutal system of clearing it out if that's what you want). And as you yourself keep saying... Keep smiling!

(WT-en) Nrms 18:54, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Nrms, I like your neutrality in all of this. It does come in handy. The reason why most of the stuff in the week has been talk stuff is because I blanked my talk page and there was a big disagreememnt over that in which I commented on which got reverted which I reverted which amounted to what we got now. That's why. All because someone cannot respect my dear wishes. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:59, 11 January 2009 (EST).

Also, with all the recent stuff going on I am not in a smiley mood but you saying that does make me a bit happy - which is the purpose of me doing that. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:00, 11 January 2009 (EST).

User page

EE, please give serious consideration to undoing this recent edit on your user page. Peter has agreed to step back from this, you should too (i.e., stop posting about it). (WT-en) Shaund 20:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Well I want to make it clear. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:00, 12 January 2009 (EST).

Your recent edits

I believe your user page constitutes a personal attack. Please make changes address the issues and actions and not the people.
Your threats made to revert comments by others in revenge are clearly inappropriate.
Comments ended with "or I will crack", are clearly inappropriate as well as threatening and abusive. Please withdraw them. --(WT-en) Inas 20:34, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Welcoming new users

Hi EE, as we've discussed several times before, would you mind not welcoming new users? I'm not going to repeat the reasoning. I'm sure you can see how this would look provocative in light of current events – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 21:57, 12 January 2009 (EST)

No no I see where you are coming from. I will put it to a halt. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:15, 12 January 2009 (EST).

Routeboxes - Banff

Hi EE, a little while back I raised an issue on the Talk:Banff page about whether it should be a control city between Calgary and Vancouver for the routeboxes. It's not a big city, but it gets something like 4 million visitors each year (about as many as Calgary). I think it should be a control city on the Calgary-Vancouver route, but I was wondering what you think before I did anything. (WT-en) Shaund 23:43, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah I agree. It is a humongous tourist place and gets tons of visitors. It would be more of a hub than Kelowna or Osoyoos or something. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:00, 13 January 2009 (EST).

User ban nomination.

Hi,

I'm not trying to suppress your opinion. Far from it. You are welcome to create a section, and state your piece, or opinion or anything else. In my opinion that would be far better than tagging some lines on the end of everyone else's responses, which disorganises the process, and does you no favours. There is no benefit to anyone in stringing this out. If you really want to make a proposal, think about what it is, and put it in writing. --(WT-en) Inas 19:24, 13 January 2009 (EST)

EE, you mentioned that you have "some ideas". Is there a reason you're not sharing them? (WT-en) JYolkowski 19:46, 13 January 2009 (EST)

J, I already said why. Re read some of my earlier postings. It states if I share ideas it will assume I stand by them, which I don't necessarily think so as well as I want to see if there is any more along with if there is more opinions, I might get stuff from that. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:41, 13 January 2009 (EST).

Just to make one thing clear, I didn't revert anything, I just moved stuff around to make things possible to follow, a short look at the diff would have told you so.... --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 21:50, 14 January 2009 (EST)

One month voluntary wikibreak

You have been asked on Project:User ban nominations whether you would accept voluntarily taking a one month total break from Wikivoyage. Your options are:

1. "Yes", I accept the voluntary one month cooling period, during which time I will not contribute to any Wikivoyage article (content or talk), under any name or anonymously (which can easily be traced to you through the logs). 2. Anything else, or no response within 24 hours, which will be taken as "No".

I strongly suggest that you accept: it will gain you respect and make it easier for you to come back. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:25, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Just one last thing, look at the page. 207.34.90.163 00:27, 15 January 2009 (EST).

Re: EEarchive

I'm not sure what to tell you.

You should know the following, but I'm going to repeat it all anyway.

The EEarchive was created to circumvent your repeated insistence on removing content from your talk page.

Now, I realize there is a lot of embarrassing stuff in there. But it was almost all of your own doing. You are the one who had to be repeatedly reminded of things that you'd been told before. The archive is there so that people can point to it and say "See, you were already told not to do this."

That said, I've recommended deletion on the deletion page. Contrary to Ryan's "speedy" keep, I don't think the discussion at Wikivoyage_talk:Deletion_policy#Blanking_talk_pages reached any sort of consensus, clear or otherwise. I see no reason to keep the archive as a page when its contents are readily available in the page history.

Now, the root of all this was your constant trolling for attention. I don't mean "trolling" in the sense of being intentionally antagonistic, but nonetheless you annoyed many contributors to this site by literally begging for people to recognize your efforts and answer your questions. Begging. And when you were told that you needed to calm down and just let things happen at their normal pace, you seemed unable to follow that advice. In fact, you seemed unable to follow any advice given to you.

Do you honestly still not understand why many contributors got fed up with your behavior and attitude? Do you want me to go and find specific examples to explain why people didn't care for your actions and tone? I could do that, but you wouldn't like it, because then it'd all be here on your talk page.

You want to know why you were treated poorly and others have not been reprimanded like you have. The reasons are multiple and complex. Some of it has to do with longevity and experience. Peter and 2old and others have invested many, many months of work into this site, and they have demonstrated repeatedly the ability to collaborate with others in constructing some darn good travel guides. You have not; you came in and, although you did some good work, you demanded attention, demonstrated a complete lack of patience, and seemed to lack the capacity for cooperation. You immediately got off on the wrong foot, and you failed to establish a record of cooperation and collaboration. In short, other contributors have earned their right to be a little ornery at times.

Does that entirely excuse their behavior? No. But eventually everyone's patience runs out, and several people decided they weren't going to deal with your behavior any more. I would greatly prefer if they weren't rude about it, since they have been ridiculously rude, but from their point of view, you started it, and they are simply responding in kind. To their point of view, you were rude by coming in and not following the rules and norms of this site, and so their rudeness to you is justified.

I don't agree, but reasonable people can disagree.

...

You were told that you could be a valuable contributor if you just calmed down, followed the rules and culture of the site, and worked on writing travel guides. But you couldn't even do that. You couldn't even agree to a voluntary wikibreak without conditions. Why not?

Why not?

I can't answer that question. Only you can. Maybe when you answer that question, the answer will help you grow as a human being.

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 15:54, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks LtPowers for taking the time to write. I have already admitted I've done wrong and it has been at the fault of my own, but this site does not need to constantly remind me of it. Can they not move on? Seriously. Thank you about the consensus, there never was a consensus about it. I seriously think Peter just did it to punish me for not doing things his way. I don't think there will be consensus until I actually agree to something, and I have offered compromise. I think some people should know I don't see feeling unnappreciated (which I have done on instances) as trolling or anything or attention seeking. That's just how I feel. And I know when I say that, you guys go back to, yes you've created a great travel guide on Edmonton blah, and I think that's where you think I need attention. I've had many questions on this site. Is that so bad? I just want to make sure I get things right and sometimes I just want opinions. I understand why people would have been annoyed and angry with me earlier, but come on now? Seriously, I think people need to get over it. Time has passed and stuff, and I think it's time to 'forgive and forget'. I came back hoping to have that, and a clean slate with Peter and everyone else, and if they expect me to change, the least they can do is try to do the same. Obviously that hasn't happened. Just because 2old contributed here a while ago or whatever does not give him the right to stomp all over me without concequences. Every little thing I do, I'm ridiculed, now Peter and 2old are smart about it, cause they're rude in less obvious ways. I am impatient, deal with it. I'm sorry, it's one of my qualities. The claim that I started this is crap. I'm not pointing the finger at them either. I think in a way it has been both ways. Although, and I said this a long time ago, had they been nice at the start of all this, I would have reacted a lot nicer. The only time I would have ever been mean is if someone pissed me off, in there someone else started it. I'm not saying it's Peter, Cacahuate, Ryan, Jani, 2old, or anyone else. I'm just pointing it out. I'm glad you see that well, they are out of line. Why has nobody but me stood up and told them to stop? I can't do it myself, I'm still seen as a newbie in their eyes. I could care less what they think of this, but they are so rude and selfish - that is Peter and 2old. I could care less if they created fabulous travel guides - it doesn't excuse anything! You think they collaborate well? How about collaborating with me? Not so good at that. I'n my eyes they're terrible at interaction with others on the site, they've just all formed an alliance of sorts so nobody excuses it, but I see it. Not to mention a big root of the problems I've had is lack of communication. Somewhere in one of the pages, it slipped that Sertmann and other Administrators had discussed offline "how to deal with me" and that was to totally ignore. Fine. You made your decision. But, hey, a heads up please? That would have saved all the reverting and everything. I did nothing wrong, yet Peter consistently banned me which didn't help my image. I had every right to make comments in Peters talk page, and to revert it or ignore it, is out of line. I appreciate all your help and I hope you can help in the future. I like how you see both sides very well. I know I did wrong, I know. They can't even admit they were wrong. I have created chaos, but so have they. Thanks so much! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:55, 1 March 2009 (EST).

My response

"Perry, you haven't been that great to me either, you weren't a jerk ;), but I always thought you were nice to me and would stick up for me, but now it's different."

I'm glad you think I wasn't a jerk, but you speaking of me as some sort of backstabber completely baffles me. I never once got involved in any of the discussions regarding your behavior, in fact I didn't even openly acknowledge it, until the very last moment right before you were banned. That was the very first time I expressed an opinion about the matter. I agreed to make some maps for you, since you were new at the time, and I had agreed to do that before all this trouble sprang up. To take that and then somehow think that I was on "your side" regarding a matter I almost completely stayed out of just blows my mind. It's like thinking that some kid at school who once helped you with a piece of math homework will now stand up for everything you do. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 20:32, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I want to offer you some advice, and while it will be hard to hear, I do hope you take it seriously, because I guarantee you that following it will make you a welcome member of Wikivoyage once again. In your extremely long reply to me on the vfd page, you said that you "came back to this site with an open mind", that you weren't "mad at anyone", and that you were "willing to forget that and give them another chance." But since your return, you insulted several administrators with almost no prodding, nominated a record of your previous actions for deletion, and in doing so reminded everyone how much you had annoyed them in the past and brought all this hatred back, which in turn has generated further insults.

From the way you've been talking, you seem determined to keep fighting. You seem convinced that one day justice will be served (in your favor). Well, I hate to be blunt, but it won't happen. Not when you're fighting half of the active administrative staff of Wikivoyage. There are some battles in life which should be fought, but this isn't one of them.

So this is what you should do right away: DROP IT. Drop everything. Throw your pride away, apologize for your previous mistakes (whether you feel guilt from them or not), and then act as if nothing ever happened. I mean, really act like nothing ever happened. Don't reference anything relating to your past troubles. Don't hold any grudges. Don't remind anyone of anything you or anyone else did. It never happened. Because I can assure you, no one wants to talk about it. I know you're determined to right what you see as a wrong and I'm guessing you're not taking kindly to my advice to suck it up, but if you really want to become a welcome member of Wikivoyage and convince everyone that you're not the troll some have accused you of being, then do this. I guarantee you, it will work. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 22:04, 2 March 2009 (EST)

YES. Exactly. Please? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:24, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Perry, if someone beat you up? Would you just let them get away with it? No. If you thought something was wrong, would you fight for it? Yes. I am fighting for myself and frankly the admins are being jerks and I am not going to suck it up and get away with it. They need to know what they are doing is out of line and selfish for their own benefit. That archive will never bee deleted if I don't fight for what I believe in. I said earlier this site has just irked me now TO much and I am going to leave after this is settled permanently, I will still go, but if everything goes good I will come back. THis is just something I have to do for myself, and I know that what they're doing isn't right. This is bullying, to put it bluntly. I don't care if they can keep it legally, it isn't right. Also, the name calling on the page you referenced was when my mood changed due to 2old. That's when I realized all the stuff I explained, this community couldn't change. If you guys expect me to be nice, you have got to do it to me. This isn't about pride. This is about what's right, my dignity, and my feelings. Jerks on this site could care less how much it hurts my feelings - and you expect me to just let it go like that? No way. I'm sorry, after the archive is deleted, I'll be happy to do what you said. THat's a fair compromise. I can not reference it and what not perhaps if it is deleted. Jani, please, will you delete the archive? If you really want me to do this, you'll need to do a little in return dear. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:04, 4 March 2009 (EST).

If you don't call attention to the archive, people will forget about it. As for your initial comments, Wikipedia has a policy that might apply here: Wikipedia is not a battleground. Relevant quotation: "If another user behaves in an uncivil, uncooperative, or insulting manner, or even tries to harass or intimidate you, this does not give you an excuse to respond in kind." Wikivoyage is not a battleground, either. Do not try to make it one by holding a grudge.

In fact, I advise you to go back and read that archive. Not the end -- the beginning of it. See how friendly people were, and how complimentary they were of your efforts. See how patient they were when you asked questions and wanted help. If you now think people are being mean just for the sake of being mean, ask yourself why they would do that after they were so helpful initially. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

And if if if if if you just can't, then why don't you just abandon Edmontonenthusiast and create a new user name. No one here that was here for the debacle is going to forget what a mess Ee caused (and of course those of us who were present for it will probably know who you are even with a new name) BUT-- future users will be unlikely to make a connection between a different user name and a random conversation page archived on Peter's sub-talk-page. And if you just drop the insistence and start anew (and if you really have changed), then you might actually see everyone willing to give you that new start afresh. (WT-en) Texugo 13:54, 5 March 2009 (EST)

LtPowers, what about the battleground your admins have caused? Hmm? Why is it only my faults are actually noticed? Texugo, I quite like the name and it's my user name, I'm sticking with it. I'd rather put an effort into changing peoples opinions. It's like changing your birthname. I have changed Texugo, but now I'm no longer in that changed opinion due to jerks on this site. That's why you don't see it. Why you admins who should be something to look up to can't do that I don't know - it's quite sad. Why can't you guys get rid of grudges and "start anew" with me. I guarantee if you actually had some respect towards me, and were nice, I'd react totally different, I said that from the beginning, but no, you guys would rather be mean. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:22, 5 March 2009 (EST).

You are actually being shown a great deal of respect. Everyone here has been 100% willing to step back and say "let's see if he's changed his ways". That was mentioned multiple times in the deletion discussion. You are being given an opportunity to do exactly what you say you want to do, but you are letting the existence of this archive get in the way. Don't. Just pretend it doesn't exist, and don't give anyone any reason to refer back to it. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:14, 5 March 2009 (EST)