Talk:New South Wales national parks

This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on Protected areas of New South Wales. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.

Pagebannner

Please help me pick. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:36, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Banner 1 - Sign to Toorale N.P. (has the Parks and Wildlife services logo)

Banner 2 - Mungo N.P.

Banner 3 - Blue Mountains N.P.

Banner 4 - Tomaree N.P.

Banner 5 - Oxley Wild Rivers N.P.

Banner 6 - Dorrigo N.P.

Banner 7 - Ben Boyd N.P.

Banner 8 - Kamay Botany Bay N.P.

I prefer: Banner 4 or Banner 7. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 19:53, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Either 2 or 4 or #8. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:29, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I prefer #4, #7, #2, and then very distantly after that, #3 and #1, in that order. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I prefer #2, #7 or #4. I initially liked #1, then realised that it was a road sign, rather than a sign inside the park on a trail. I am not familiar with most of the parks, so I don't know how representative the images are. AlasdairW (talk) 21:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nelson Ricardo 2500, SelfieCity, Ikan Kekek, AlasdairW: I just added an eighth banner. See if you like that one. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:26, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

It works well by showing (non-identifiable) people enjoying the park. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 23:52, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Surprisingly enough, 6 of the first 7 banners I chose were quite a distance from me, but this one is just a 45 min drive (and by train) ;) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:55, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Booderee National Park

Booderee National Park is fully in Jervis Bay Territory (not NSW), but is fully surrounded by NSW and the Tasman Sea. I deliberately excluded it because NSW parks passes aren't valid, but should I just have the listing here anyway? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:55, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Jervis Bay is breadcrumbed to New South Wales, so should probably be included. Where would it go otherwise? The comment on it being different could be included in its "one-liner". –LPfi (talk) 11:00, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

I started a thread a while back to split up JBT but that didn't go well. It's quite hard to visualise this, but Jervis Bay Territory is different from Jervis Bay. Most of Jervis Bay is in NSW, but there's a small bit which is federally administered of the bay itself. This might help where you see most of it falls under NSW, but Booderee is fully in the territory and to a surprise, I was surprised that my NSW Parks pass wasn't accepted here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:06, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Since "NSW parks passes aren't valid", we should exclude the parks in JBT from this article. (It's akin to how we treat many disputed territories—which I fully realize JBT isn't—due to visa and immigration differences.) Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 18:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Side question: is NSW your main focus, or do you plan to also create national parks articles for other states and territories? Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 18:05, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Maybe for Queensland, South Australia and possibly Victoria. Unless I put a special exception below which also can include the one and only national park in Canberra. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:17, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Isn't this article about national parks in New South Wales – and the park is there from a travellers perspective – not about "parks where the NSW pass is valid". We can have a note in the one-liner and a warning in the park's Fees and permits section, but I don't see this as a reason not to list it here. Would we exclude some other park, if it for some reason was excluded from the pass system? –LPfi (talk) 03:58, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

If so, this article could also include parks in Canberra, which also is treated like it is part of NSW. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:07, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

So I'd think. It makes more sense to use our traveller-focused regions rather than the official ones also for travel topics, unless the official borders are important for the travellers. If the Canberra parks are significantly different, then it might make sense not to include them, but I suppose they are not. Having one extra paragraph on passes seems no big deal. –LPfi (talk) 04:29, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

So something like this?

===Other parks===
* {{marker|type=forestgreen|lat=|long=|name=[[Booderee National Park]]|image=|wikidata=Q892951}} – While treated like in NSW, zero percent of this park is in NSW, but actually in the federal territory of Jervis Bay Territory, and was formerly part of the ACT.
* {{marker|type=forestgreen|lat=|long=|name=[[Namadgi National Park]]|image=|wikidata=Q1635824}} – The only national park in the ACT, apart from Booderee (although JBT isn't part of the ACT anymore), home to many unique bird species.

which produces

• 1 Booderee National Park – While treated like in NSW, zero percent of this park is in NSW, but actually in the federal territory of Jervis Bay Territory, and was formerly part of the ACT.
• 2 Namadgi National Park – The only national park in the ACT, apart from Booderee (although JBT isn't part of the ACT anymore), home to many unique bird species.

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:27, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

3 digit listings

Swept in from the pub

We have another moment of that in New South Wales National Parks. How do we fix it?

Cheers, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:10, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Two ways I can think of:

1. Cut down the list to remove the swath of red links (though arguably all of those parks could one day get their own article).
2. Split into multiple list articles by region.

Either of those work? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:42, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I remember when 82 was around, someone (I think it was either FredTC or Nelson Ricardo 2500) who said that you could change the color of the listing and it would work. Also, if I do option one, that defeats the purpose of the entire article. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:45, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you can change the colour of the markers too. See Presidents of the United States for how. What is the purpose of the article; just to be a big list? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:01, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

The purpose is meant to be similar to United States National Parks but I didn't realize that there'd be so many red links. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:11, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

In fairness, did you know there'd be a gazillion national parks? I'm guessing there's no such thing as a state park, national nature reserve etc. in NSW, since some on the list are vast and some seem to be no bigger than your average municipal park.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:20, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Actually, no. We have plenty of state parks, nature reserves, more than the list of national parks here (If I go four houses down my street then I'll arrive at a nature reserve). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:26, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I see. It still might be worthwhile to explain in the article why some of the parks are so small and what makes them special enough for national protection.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Could do that, but the small ones are really only in metro Sydney, but there's some other ones too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:39, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000, see Module:TypeToColor for a list of all colors. Scroll down to the code for more; there are "deprecated" ones that aren't in the table. I suggest using one color per region. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 11:29, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the link :) Probably will use one color per region and one special color for all the unesco listed sites. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:36, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I suggest the markers should not be with type=go or type=vicinity, because they have a special meaning. And you see the name at mouse-over events, and that might be confusing for the traveler. So, I think they all should be with type=color-name, with a selection of the following possible color-names:

black, blue, brown, chocolate, forestgreen, gold, gray/grey, lime, magenta, maroon, mediumaquamarine, navy, orange, plum, purple, red, royalblue, silver, steelblue and teal.

Then every region section should have its own

<!-- * {{marker|type=color-name|lat=|long=|name=|image=|wikidata=}} AN EMPTY TEMPLATE TO QUICKLY COPY AND PASTE THE CONTENT IN-->

Which will make it self-explaining for other editors. --FredTC (talk) 12:49, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Parks that will never get its own article

For some like Barakee National Park, they will never get their own article here, and I've blacklinked them, but is there a way to remove the wikipedia icon? @LPfi:, do you know how? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes: leave out the wikidata= parameter (or add a wikipedia=N/A, after introducing the parameter). But why would you? If they are worth mentioning, I'd suppose the reader might want to read about them. In this case, the Wikipedia article doesn't say much, but it may get better at some point (the one-liner, "another one of those parks with the usuals", is even more unhelpful, especially as those "usuals" haven't been specified elsewhere in the article).

Take a look at Finnish national parks#Destinations. My intension has been to link the areas that satisfy wiaa, have the official url for the redlinked ones, and link whatever article where the area should be described for those not satisfying wiaa (now all municipalities are linked, which I'm probably going to change). The one-liner is usually derived from the park article, Wikipedia or the official site's intro (usually nationalparks.fi i.e. Metsähallitus), modified according to my impression from the rest of the description, a visit or other sources.

–LPfi (talk) 06:18, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

The wikidata marker parameter did not exist when I started the article, otherwise I would probably have used it. I might add them at some point, but now I am not working on the article. –LPfi (talk) 06:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

They're worth mentioning, but there's nothing on the NSW Parks website. Only the map and what already I knew about the park. The key difference here is that in NSW, you'd never be too far away from a national park and rather we just name everything as "National Park", unlike the rest of the world where national parks are reserved for the best of the best. You'd need to go there physically for the national park to find out, but since there's little info, I'd just go to another park. (and it's probably why these parks are little known) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:42, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd still say you should link the Wikipedia article and the official web site. They might get better at some point. And either say something worthwhile or leave out the description to show information needs to be added. Having a blacklink rather than a redlink to parks that are nothing special is OK. Also over here there are protected areas about which information is hard to find. They are probably still special in some way worth mentioning, you just have to find that information somewhere (Metsähallitus has info on areas maintained by them, and those inaugurated by legislation are documented in the legislation records, but decisions by regional authorities can be harder to find). –LPfi (talk) 07:56, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

I mean, this is the only thing you get, hence why Wikipedia has such little info on NSW Parks. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

The page links to this, which includes real information, such as:

• "Barakee National Park and Barakee SCA form part of a vegetated corridor extending from the Manning River floodplain to the Great Dividing Range, linking a diverse habitat assemblage and supporting a number of threatened fauna species. Vegetation communities are dominated by [...]"
• "Barakee National Park and Barakee SCA protect habitat for the threatened glossy black-cockatoo, scarlet robin, flame robin, eastern false pipistrelle, koala (Phascolarctos cinereus) and eastern bentwing-bat. [...] Other threatened species likely to occur include [...]"
• "The parks protect a high diversity of forest ecosystems and vegetation communities, including significant stands of old-growth forest and rainforest habitat.
• Although the parks are remote and difficult to access, resulting in low visitor numbers, Barakee National Park offers visitors a natural bushland experience. Nature-based recreational opportunities available at Ernies Flat include camping, fishing, four-wheel driving, swimming and walking."

I don't know how common these features are (typical features could be described in Understand), but I get the impression that some people indeed would like to visit this park after having read the description.

What do you do if you want to visit such a park? Are you allowed to drive in the parks (apparently in this one, at least along some route)? Are there roads? Or do you drive to a parking close to the park and continue by foot? Are permits needed (the passes aren't mentioned in Understand)? Do such things vary from park to park?

–LPfi (talk) 15:59, 23 August 2021

Split up this article

I propose to split this article up. Not only has this got too long, it also takes a whopping thirty seconds for this page to load for me. I presume this can be turned something similar to United States National Park System, with the historical sites, karst conservation reserves and Aboriginal areas with each of their own articles. Does that work? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:08, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Odd. It is 40 kB (wikitext), which is not exceptional and it does not have that many or large images. It does have many listings, is it their Wikidata transactions and data handling that take time? It now loaded quickly for me, but I have had it open earlier this morning, so I might have got a locally cached version. Splitting it in three by type would be possible, but that would probably not significantly change loading time, nor make it more manageable by readers – many would have to open three articles instead or miss part of what they are searching for. –LPfi (talk) 08:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: I don't know if it's just my connection though (Wi-Fi, despite it originating in Australia; Australia has an average Wi-Fi speed similar to Kazakhstan), but the map takes sometimes a minute to load. The US National Park System article however, has six, so I wouldn't say four is a big issue here. There should also be an article on regional parks too, since some of them just function like national parks, except that dogs are allowed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:02, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Logo caption

The part of the caption saying "seen about from every national park" seems wrong but I'm not sure what it is meant to say. Nurg (talk) 01:14, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Meant to give a visual representation of how the logo looks like (as the logo is seen from every park). Fixed the caption though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)