Talk:Dangerous animals

This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on Bear danger. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.

Water beasties?

Pirhana? Are there other species as nasty? Big game fish thrashing about when hauled into a boat can kill. Some species of jellyfish are seriously dangerous. What about other watery hazards?

There are plenty of stories and even films about dolphins & porpoises, but they are wild animals. Are they actually dangerous, and if so, when?

Are these covered in our diving articles? Pashley (talk) 19:02, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

We do have a Jellyfish article, but I don't think the other water dangers are covered anywhere... Texugo (talk) 19:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I have just added Dangerous_animals#Stonefish. Should they be grouped with sharks and jellyfish into a "Marine hazards" scetion? Or even a separate article? My answers would be "yes" and "not yet". Pashley (talk) 03:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Rattlesnake lethality

Is it really the case that an untreated rattlesnake bite can't kill an adult human? I thought otherwise. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:07, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

It can, according to w:Rattlesnake#Effect_of_bites_on_humans. Moreover, the other newly created Pests page has more info on snakes. We need to decide whether we would rather concentrate the info there or here and put a pointer from the one to the other. Texugo (talk) 00:32, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

It looks to me like a good decision was made. I don't think snakes are usually considered pests, but rather, poisonous snakes are considered threats. Pests tend to be somewhat smaller or/and less lethal animals (like, maybe farmers consider deer pests, since they eat crops, but people in urban areas tend to think of smaller vermin, with rats usually being the biggest). Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile in Canada

A truck loaded with fireworks hits a moose near Wawa. Lots of explosions! Pashley (talk) 16:07, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

And a wolf chasing a motorcycle near Banff. Pashley (talk) 16:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Had to smile at this one, yes it happens. Had a coyote run along side of my car for a mile or so on a gravel track in Alberta. --Traveler100 (talk) 17:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Bears

I think there is so much material on bears that it should be moved to an article of its own. The advice from wilderness backpacking should also be merged.

But I wonder, is this global advice, or just North America? There are a thousand bears in Finland (some in my nearby hiking terrains), but here I have never heard about watching videos or having bear safe containers. It seems the bear trouble across the pond is quite outstanding (not counting polar bears). No harm following the advice also here, but is it really important in "most areas populated with bears"?

--LPfi (talk) 18:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

At least in central Romania bears allegedly run loose near major cities... Ypsilon (talk) 18:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Most of this material on bears is in an article of its own on WP and was copied here; see comment at top of this page. There are several ways to deal with the duplication:

1. My inclination would be to cut the bear section here to about two short paragraphs and link to WP for more. That would violate our external links policy; I consider this a valid exception but that is clearly debatable.
2. Creating a "bear danger" article here would let us link to the WP article without violating policy. I see no other benefit.
3. As I see it, keeping a large chunk of essentially the same text here and at WP is problematic. They are already somewhat different and may be moreso in time, especially if we decide European bears need different text. This may waste effort and either site may miss good contributions from the other.

My choice would be #1. What do others think? Pashley (talk) 20:28, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I am not at all convinced that anything needs to be done at all. I don't at all consider it to have too much information to be hosted here on this page - the section is not that big, and on my screen at least, it all fits on the screen at once, with a little to spare. I think the information should stay here, as is, with room to merge any little non-duplicated info from wildeness backpacking, if any. If we absolutely did have to do something though, I would definitely prefer to give it its own article rather than cut and refer people to wikipedia. We shouldn't be referring people to wikipedia for things that are indeed travel related and within our scope. Texugo (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I also think the material should be at Wikivoyage. Such advice is not in scope for Wikipedia and may be deleted or rewritten at any time. As long as this page has so little information on other animals the bear section can stay, but I think having comparable information on snakes, wolves and sharks will already make the page clumsy (the bear info is two pages with my current browser window width). --LPfi (talk) 09:05, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Wrong name?

I think the article name here is wrong. It is not just about "Aggressive animals", but something more like "Dangerous animals".

Lots of animals are dangerous even when they are not aggressive. A cud-chewing buffalo is not aggressive, nor is a sleeping snake. Provoke them, though — get too close to either or step on the snake — and you have a real problem. Pashley (talk) 20:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

True. Aggressiveness is not the point. Also animals in the pest article can be dangerous, but perhaps the reference in the lead is enough. --LPfi (talk) 09:09, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I did the move and changed some things to point to the new name: all redirects, the listing at travel topics and a few others. I did not muck with the categories or breadcrumbs. Pashley (talk) 13:02, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

A list

19 animals that kill the most humans Pashley (talk) 01:22, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Wolves

I think I read from serious sources (but have forgotten where), that being aggressive is the best option if wolves come too near. The section now has no such advice, neither any warning about running away (only long term advice for societies near wolves). Does somebody have wolf advice handy? --LPfi (talk) 19:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

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Cassowaries

w:Cassowaries do get very dangerous, but they're mostly only found within Queensland, New Guinea and the Aru Islands. Could be mentioned here, but want to get a second opinion before adding it. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:17, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure, why not? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:21, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

We can add them, but very local beasts may be better handled in articles about the place where they live, especially if they need more than a few sentences. We cannot cover details on all animals here, so we should concentrate on those that many travellers are likely to meet, and those widespread enough not to be sensibly covered in individual Stay safe sections and special enough not to be covered by general advice. –LPfi (talk) 11:17, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Elephants

I am puzzled by the recent additions on elephants. Why are the ears "relaxed" if the elephant is trying to figure you out? Why would you be perceived as a threat if you run away? How do you know an elephant "looks angry"? From where is this advice? –LPfi (talk) 11:22, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

To answer your questions, here are some sources: 1, 2, and 3. Roovinn (talk) 12:45, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

On another note, elephants are capable of emotions. Roovinn (talk) 12:48, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

OK. I think the advice need to be rewritten for clarity. You don't want to – and shouldn't – provoke even a mock attack. And while standing your ground may stop a mock attack, it will hardly stop a real one, at least one by a full-grown male. I don't trust the Animalwised advice: they telling you to also read "Escaping from a Bear Attack" suggests they might give advice on any animal regardless of whether they know anything about it; nothing in the article convinces me they are real experts. I rewrote the advice, hopefully making it clearer and still correct. I removed the advice to stand your ground, as the articles did not convince me that that'd save you in case of a real attack. –LPfi (talk) 16:08, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Tigers

[section header added]
@Roovinn: And now tigers. In what way are tigers "extremely dangerous, aggressive animals"? I have understood that the man-killer tigers usually have had some injury that made killing their normal pray difficult. Of course, if they decide to kill you, you are probably no match, but local herders do chase away tigers with their staffs. I believe what you wrote, that you can make them feel insecure by something unfamiliar, such as a strange sound, but can we give more specific advice on that? –LPfi (talk) 12:06, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello @LPfi.

Tigers are aggressive, dangerous animals. That is a fact.

They are territorial and can get easily aggravated if you enroach on their territory, they do consider humans as food, and people have been injured/killed for antagonising them (yelling at them, hitting them, etc.)

I can't think of any specific noises that would scare off a tiger, but if someone were to come face to face with a wild tiger, they would have to think of something to fend them off. Then again, such instances are unlikely, but possible.

Further reading: Here and Here. Roovinn (talk) 12:41, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Dangerous they are, but what is an aggressive animal? OK, territorial, that I can buy. But what do they do when they get "aggravated"? I suppose they want you to back off, and they might attack if you seem weak, as you cannot back off fast enough for their taste and running would get them chasing you (and then you'd need to outrun them). My understanding is that most tigers don't regard humans as food – there are villages in tiger territory, and only occasionally does someone get killed. Those who yell at and hit tigers are directly challenging their right to territory and pray, no wonder that's dangerous.

The advice in the Guardian seems sensible and agrees with my impression, and nothing in the BBC story surprises me, other than some of the accounts where injured people survived. In the former story the tigers are away from their natural habitat, in the latter people regularly encroach on their territory and natural prey has gotten sparse. Similar stories could probably be told also about places where the tigers are left in peace, but there they would be rarer. I don't know whether the direct attacks were for food or the easiest way to get rid of an intruder, they might be either. I don't know whether those attacks make them more dangerous and aggressive than what you'd expect from a big predator used to being confronted by humans.

I think that we should rather explain some of the threat mechanisms and try to give good advice than emphasize the nature of a tiger.

–LPfi (talk) 13:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Any animal that can get irate in a matter of seconds and can prove to be extremely dangerous (hippos, tigers) is "aggressive" to me I think.

As for them wanting you to back off when they get aggravated, to some extent, that is true, but you also have those tigers that want to neutralise all visible threats. They are highly territorial in nature and assert rigorous dominance over their territory.

To some extent, I do feel it is important to emphasise their nature and why tigers are regarded as dangerous. People tend to know they are dangerous, but they may not know why they have such a fearsome reputation. I for one did not know until a few years back that tigers are highly territorial. If someone knows about tigers getting aggressive when you urinate in their territory (for instance), it could one day save their life.

Of course, I am not attempting to disregard your comments @LPfi, I'm just sharing my thoughts on what you've shared. You have raised some valid points, and I do agree with some of them. Roovinn (talk) 14:37, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

• ttcf: this is not WikiPredators, this is not WikiBiology, this is a travel guide. There's no need to elaborate with THAT degree of detail, IMHO. Ibaman (talk) 14:43, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

  Oh of course, wasn't talking about getting into all of the details, but the bare basics (territorial, aggressive) are more than enough. Roovinn (talk) 14:49, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

  What level of detail? Saying they are territorial and that you shouldn't pee in tiger territory is exactly the advice I think is useful. If you get face-to-face with a tiger, you'd want to know what to do or at least what it thinks about the situation to figure out a sensible response yourself, and if you can avoid the situation, all the merrier.

  I don't know that tigers would get irate in a matter of seconds. Offensive self-defence when getting hit or attacking when having sought you up for intruding on their territory isn't what I'd call getting irate. But yes, I feel we have the same goals, and just need to understand each other's thoughts and find the right wordings.

  –LPfi (talk) 15:03, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

  Very well, looks like we are in agreement with each other. Let's work towards that then. Roovinn (talk) 15:07, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

"Any animal that can get irate in a matter of seconds and can prove to be extremely dangerous (hippos, tigers) is "aggressive" to me I think."

Food for thought: Would you consider humans an extremely dangerous, aggressive animal? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:25, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Unqualified statements

"More people are killed by large herbivores than by predators."

Are you counting livestock as "large herbivores?" Are you counting car crashes as ways that these animals kill us? AndeeAndy (talk) 19:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I have heard the hippopotamus is the animal causing the most deaths in Africa; it isn't livestock, nor do I believe it primarily causes deaths by car accidents. Elk (moose) causes deaths primarily by car accidents, and I think it is the most dangerous animal in the USA and in the Nordic countries. I am not sure we need to give the detailed account here. –LPfi (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Boundary between pests and dangerous animals?

Where shall we draw the boundary between pests and dangerous animals? Describing mosquitoes and polar bears in the same article does not make sense, but where would we sort a venomous frog? /Yvwv (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

On discouraging attacking birds of prey

We had this advice:

"If it seems that a bird of prey is making you feel uneasy or is about to attack you for whatever reason, make loud noises (yelling, screaming, clapping) or flash lights at them to scare them off."

If you feel uneasy, that's no reason to disturb them, so I shortened it to:

"If it seems that a bird of prey is about to attack you for whatever reason, make loud noises (yelling, screaming, clapping) or flash lights at them to scare them off."

I am still not sure this is good advice. If it is about to attack you because you came too near its nest, wouldn't it be better to just back off? Are the birds discouraged from attacking by sounds and lights, or is this just an assumption? I have never heard that advice.

–LPfi (talk) 16:12, 21 October 2023 (UTC)