Talk:Open-air museums

Title? Scope?

The comment for the United Kingdom section begs the question:

As the term "pioneer village" is colonial in origins and context, comparable attractions in the UK and Europe are branded as "living history museums" or "open-air museums". These terms are not the same in meaning, but there is substantial overlap.

Should the title of this article be renamed as Living history museums or open-air museums? The definition in the article certainly says nothing about any colonial history. The collection is arbitrary, in any case. /Yvwv (talk) 20:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, "Living history museums" would be good. It makes no sense to call European living history museums "pioneer villages". Does anyone object to a name change? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:07, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Agree, "Living history museums" would be better fit. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:12, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes. The introduction should then be rewritten to reflect the broader scope. --LPfi (talk) 06:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes it should. Anyone want to argue in favor of keeping the current name? If not, it 4-0 is probably a sufficient consensus for action tomorrow. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

On your other point, Yvwv, what should be done to make the collection of living history museums less arbitrary, if it still is? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I changed the name of the article and made these basic edits to reflect the new article name. Please improve the lede and article in any way you like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Where to put a "historical recreation/cultural theme park"?

Swept in from the pub

Prompted by a description elsewhere concerning w:Edo Wonderland Nikko Edomura, where it was described as a cultural theme park. To me it looked far more like a historical recreation/museum of cultural life, more in keeping with what's been placed in Pioneer villages. It came up when searching for some possible things to add in Amusement parks, Japan being a region notably absent in that article. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:49, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Japan is actually pretty advanced for amusement parks, although that article is already like a list so we started the Talk:Amusement_parks#Remove_long_lists? discussion --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:49, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

That was my concern as well, which is why I'd reworded the US entry. I think the article needs reformulating. I'd tries to limit listings to 5-6 entries. Essentialy in respect of the UK, the entries listed are the top 5 (below the Top tier parks like Alton Towers) mentioned above them.

Your long lists concerns are equally valid for something like British coast, which I am planning on re-working quite extensively when I can find something to produce a good summary from. I agree that listing all the seaside towns would be overkill. However, giving say a paragrpah on each section of the coast which happens to list the major resort in it wouldn't to my mind by out of place. I'm still trying to think how British resorts differ from US or continental ones, other than in price and facilities :( .

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:39, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Renaming Pioneer villages

Swept in from the pub

Hi, everyone. I'd like some participation at Talk:Pioneer villages#Title? Scope? I feel like any article that deals with recreations of ancient villages in Europe and Japan shouldn't be called "Pioneer villages" but something else like Living history museums. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Sarawak Cultural Village

Where is it? "Sarawak" is not a sufficient identification, as it's a very large state; you might as well say someplace is in Nebraska or something. OK, but where? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:51, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Living history or open air?

The article was moved from "Living history museums" to "Open-air museums", "Congruent with Wikipedia" (which I don't understand, as the linked Wikipedia article is Living museum).

We say: "A living history museum, a type of open-air museum, is meant to be a reconstruction of an entire ancient or pre-modern settlement, or a portion of one.

I'd emphasise "a type of", and I think this article should be specifically about living history museums, not the open air museums with old buildings where you just have signs and perhaps a guide (by chance in period clothes) telling what the dust collecting items are about – those can be interesting as well, but they should not be the focus of this article.

–LPfi (talk) 12:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

We should prefer the most generalized terms. All living history museums are open-air museums, and the ones that are not (I have yet to find examples) would not dilute the article. /Yvwv (talk) 12:00, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Open air museums seems more clearer to me. I prefer this new name instead of the former. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:03, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Using the most generalised terms hints at having the most generalised content, but you probably don't want this to be moved to "Museums". So do we want to broaden our scope? That would mean rewriting the Understand to include other open air museums.

Should I start adding open air museum that are not living history? I notice Bungemuseet was added, and nothing in the description hints at living history. Some big and important open air museums are Seurasaari/Fölisön and Siida in Finland and Kautoneino former Sámi village in Norway.

I'd guess that about half of the local history museums in Finland are open air, and you have one in most historic parishes. Although we don't need to list those, they should certainly be described in general terms, if the scope is to be widened in this way.

–LPfi (talk) 13:26, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Listing details

Per Wikivoyage:Travel topic article template, "Details, such as street addresses, prices and phone numbers, should be omitted from the travel topic article. Instead link the full listing, or the section or article containing it." Ground Zero (talk) 18:38, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

That is a good policy, as they tend to be more ephemeral than the location. Could this info possibly migrate to Wikidata to be updated centrally? /Yvwv (talk) 18:44, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't know how to do that. I would be concerned that putting,listing derails in Wikidata would make it more difficult for new editors to make updates, unless clicking the edit Hutton on the Wikivoyage listing took the editor directly to Wikidata. Is that possible? Ground Zero (talk) 19:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I think being taken to Wikidata would be very confusing. The normal thing to do is to override Wikidata on any piece of information by specifying it explicitly in the listing. That doesn't help with updating it also in the city article (or whatever). I think we want our readers to click through to the city article for any venue they are interested in, so not having the details here is no issue. –LPfi (talk) 17:15, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

• Done. Ground Zero (talk) 04:24, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Time to bud off?

The article is getting lenghty. It approaches 100 listings, which is a technical limit for markers (though it can be worked around; see Roman Empire and Grand old hotels). Is there any meaningful sub-category of these, which would make sense to list in a separate article? /Yvwv (talk) 19:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

It might be more intuitive to branch it off by continent. For example, 38 of the listings are in Canada and the US. Ground Zero (talk)

The original title of the article was Pioneer villages, which is a sub-category of open-air museums. This article could be re-created. I am however less familiar with those than I am with Nordic folk culture museums. /Yvwv (talk) 21:53, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Also see #Living history or open air? above. The former was what the original was moved to. I then thought the new scope was too broad, and I am still confused about what places should be added. –LPfi (talk) 21:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm confused about that too. The definition currently given in the article is "any exhibition made up of several buildings with a historical theme", which I think seems too broad for a list-style article. "Living history museums" seems like a more manageable, coherent, and useful topic. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Which of these museums would not be living history museums, and where should they go? /Yvwv (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I note that we have clear definitions of continents, which would avoid spending time on this discussion. Open-air museums in North America (38 articles), Open-air museums in Europe (43 articles), Open-air museums in Asia (7 articles), Open-air museums in Oceania (6 articles), Open-air museums in Africa (2 article). Ground Zero (talk) 13:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

[edit conflict] Are any of the Estonian, German, Norwegian, Romanian, Russian or Ukrainian ones living history museums? Two of Japan's seem not to be. The New Zealand ones seem doubtful. What about Foteviken, Bunge, Norra berget and Kulturen? –LPfi (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)