Talk:Sydney

Archived discussions Talk:Sydney/Archive 2003-2012 Talk:Sydney/Archive 2013-2021

Map of Sydney Trains and Trams

Just found a map of the future train and tram network in Sydney. SHB2000 (talk) 11:31, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Look forward to see these stations slowly come online! I'm guessing the western airport ones (M3) is at least 10 years' away. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:21, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

It'll probably only be constructed when the construction has started on the M10 motorway. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

This sentence:

I think this sentence may not be the best thing for travellers:

“ Insert the text of the quote here, without quotation marks. ”

I've never known anyone who has chosen to drive either of these routes. Instead, for those who take the car, we take a bunch of shortcuts, however, it does get a bit wordy. Here it is: via Hume Hwy, Sturt Hwy, Balranald-Tooleybuc Road, Murray Valley Highway, Mallee Highway, Dukes Highway, Princes Highway and the South Eastern Freeway

This route takes about 1350km from CBD to CBD but takes a lot less if you're from most other parts of Sydney.

However, there's a bridge that's not so driver friendly, which questions me to whether I should add this or not. This is the bridge.

All opinions welcome, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

"It does not snow in Sydney,"

For the past week, I've disagreed with this statement:

“ It does not snow in Sydney, ”

It's been snowing in the blue mountains continually for the past week now! This is rather unusual, but it's something happening in the last five years. I'm presuming these are the effects of climate change, but that sentence is no longer true. So may I remove it? It does not snow in most of Sydney, but the Blue Mountains is part of Greater Sydney. Also, here's a map for those who are wondering where the unclear boundaries are. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 00:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps rephase to "It does not snow within Sydney city limits [or municipal boundaries, or whatever term is correct for Oz], but parts of the Greater Sydney area do see snowfall." Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Sydney's winters are milder than Adelaide's, but even Adelaide never snows, except perhaps on the top of Mount Lofty. And even then it's an extremely rare occurrence, and doesn't happen every year. I won't be surprised if it snows in the Blue Mountains, but I presume it won't be every year either, unlike the Snowy Mountains or Mount Buller (both of which I've never been to). The only place in Australia in which I have experienced snowfall is at Cradle Mountain in Tasmania, ironically during the summer. Anyway, I think we need to give an accurate impression that at least in urban Sydney, the winters are mild, and you will only occassionally get snow at higher elevations. The dog2 (talk) 03:45, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, snowing in the blue mountains regularly is only a very new thing. Also for the urban bit, I'm not sure if Katoomba and Mt. Victoria are considered un-urban. But yes, I highly agree with you about Sydney's winters, which usually on a day like today, it would ideally be 18˚ but this year it's unusually 14˚ which is really cold. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I think the statement as it's phrased is reasonable -- keep in mind many readers will be from places where winters routinely snow. A minor amount of understatement is okay if it aids comprehension. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 05:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but really, that's only Europe, Siberia, Japan, Korea and North America. Travellers from other parts of the world, where would often find Sydney a lot colder. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:35, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

It was a maximum of 9C in the Sydney CBD yesterday but that was a 1-in-25 year event (possibly 1 in 40). We can rephrase it to rarely or clarify that the peri-urban area of the Blue Mountain does see snow occasionally. Gizza ^(roam) 05:56, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

While I believe the cold weather is just a result of La Niña, the snow is somewhat new. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:09, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I just came across this beauty: [1]. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:02, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Ha! never expected someone to photoshop an opera house like it's Scandinavia (high mountains). On a more realistic note, here's just some photos I came across reddit when looking for some photos (went to the Blue Mountains on thursday as well, and confirmed, but no photos.) [2] [3] [4] (bin chicken staying away from the cold) [5]. --SHB2000 (talk) 02:16, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The Maps are Outdated, Vague and Inaccurate

I've attempted to update and provide accuracy to the page with newer more specific maps and region descriptions of Sydney. The existing ones go back to somewhere between 2010-2013 and aren't accurate nor do they make any sense. The newer maps are; Map of Central Sydney CBD and Inner City Suburbs with Description.png Map of Greater Sydney Regions and Suburbs With Heading.jpg

The index description for each region is below;

Central Sydney

Inner City Sydney CBD, The Rocks, Dawes Point, Millers Point, Barangaroo, Haymarket Postcode: 2000 LGA: City of Sydney (North End)

Inner City-West Suburbs: Pyrmont, Ultimo, Chippendale, Darlington. Postcodes: 2007, 2008 and 2009 LGA: City of Sydney (North-West Side)

Inner City-East Suburbs: Surry Hills, Darlinghurst, Woolloomooloo, Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay, Rushcutters Bay. Postcodes: 2010 and 2011 LGA: City of Sydney (North-East Side)

Eastern Sydney

Eastern Suburbs Suburb examples: Bondi, Paddington, Double Bay, Vaucluse Postcodes: 2021 to 2030 LGA: Waverley Council, Woollahra Municipal Council, The Centennial Parklands, City of Sydney (Far East Side) Western Boundary: Eastern Distributor, South Dowling Street, Boundary Street, Neild Avenue and Rushcutters Creek

South-Eastern Suburbs Suburb examples: Randwick, Coogee, Maroubra, Botany Postcodes: 2031 to 2036, 2052, 2018 and 2019 LGA: Randwick City Council, Bayside Council (East Side) Western Boundary: Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Southern Boundary: Botany Bay

Southern Sydney

Inner South Suburb examples: Redfern, Zetland, Alexandria, Mascot Postcodes: 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 LGA: City of Sydney (South End), Bayside Council (North End) Northern Boundary: Central Station and Cleveland Street. Eastern Boundary: Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Western Boundary: Alexandra Canal and T3 Train Line. Southern Boundary: Botany Bay.

Southern Suburbs (St George) Suburb examples: Rockdale, Hurstville, Peakhurst, Sans Souci LGA: Georges River Council, Bayside Council (West Side) Northern Boundary: Wolli Creek and M5. Eastern Boundary: Botany Bay. Western Boundary: Salt Pan Creek. Southern Boundary: Georges River.

Sutherland Shire Suburb examples: Sutherland, Miranda, Caringbah, Cronulla LGA: Sutherland Shire Council Northern Boundary: Georges River and Botany Bay Western Boundary: Mill Creek Southern Boundary: Port Hacking

Northern Sydney

Northern Suburbs Suburb examples: Galdesville, Ryde, Epping, Beecroft LGA: Hunters Hill Council, City of Ryde, City of Parramatta (North-East End), Hornsby Shire Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Byles Creek and Devlins Creek. Eastern Boundary: Lane Cove River. Western Boundary: Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road. Southern Boundary: Parramatta River.

Lower North Shore Suburb examples: North Sydney, Mosman, Artarmon, Chatswood LGA: Mosman Council, North Sydney Council, Lane Cove Council, Willoughby City Council Northern Boundary: Boundary Street and Blue Gum Creek. Western Boundary: Lane Cove River.

Upper North Shore Suburb examples: Lindfield, St Ives, Pymble, Turramurra LGA: Ku-Ring-Gai Council Eastern Boundary: Middle Harbour Creek and Garigal National Park. Western Boundary: Lane Cove River, Coups Creek and The Pacific Highway. Southern Boundary: Boundary Street and Blue Gum Creek.

Outer North Suburb examples: Pennant Hills, Normanhurst, Hornsby, Berowra LGA: Hornsby Shire Council (East Side) Eastern Boundary: Lane Cove River, Coups Creek and The Pacific Highway. Western Boundary: Berowra Creek. Southern Boundary: Byles Creek and Devlins Creek.

Forest District Suburb examples: Frenchs Forest, Forestville, Duffys Forest LGA: Northern Beaches Council (West Side) Northern Boundary: Smiths Creek. Eastern Boundary: Mona Vale Road, Forest Way, Morgan Road, Oxford Falls Road and Frenchs Forest. Western Boundary: Cowan Creek, Middle Harbour Creek and Garigal National Park.

Lower Northern Beaches Suburb examples: Manly, Balgowlah, Dee Why, Narrabeen LGA: Northern Beaches Council (South-East End) Northern Boundary: South Creek and Narrabeen Lagoon. Western Boundary: Oxford Falls Road and Frenchs Forest.

Upper Northern Beaches Suburb examples: Mona Vale, Avalon Beach, Palm Beach LGA: Northern Beaches Council (North-East End) Northern Boundary: Pittwater and Broken Bay. Western Boundary: Mccarrs Creek and Wirreanda Creek. Southern Boundary: South Creek and Narrabeen Lagoon.

Western Sydney

Inner West Suburb examples: Marrickville, Leichhardt, Burwood, Concord LGA: Inner West Council, Burwood Council, City of Canada Bay, Strathfield Council (North End), City of Sydney (Far West Side), Canterbury-Bankstown Council (North-East End) Northern Boundary: Parramatta River. Eastern Boundary: Alexandra Canal, Erskineville, Camperdown and Glebe. Western Boundary: Centenary Drive and Homebush Bay Drive. Southern Boundary: Cooks River.

Inner South-West Suburb examples: Earlwood, Campsie, Roselands, Punchbowl LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (East Side), Strathfield Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Cooks River. Western Boundary: Fairford Road, Stacey Street, Hume Highway and Salt Pan Creek. Southern Boundary: Wolli Creek and M5.

Western Suburbs Suburb examples: Auburn, Fairfield, Westmead, Blacktown, LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (North-West End), Fairfield City Council (North End), Cumberland City Council, City of Parramatta (South End), Blacktown City Council (South-East End) Northern Boundary: Parramatta River, Old Windsor Road and M7. Eastern Boundary: Centenary Drive and Homebush Bay Drive. Western Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Southern Boundary: Chullora, T3 Train Line, Orphan School Creek and Clear Paddock Creek.

South-Western Suburbs Suburb examples: Bankstown, Cabramatta, Liverpool, Prestons LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (South-West End), Liverpool City Council (North-East Side), Fairfield City Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Chullora, T3 Train Line, Orphan School Creek and Clear Paddock Creek. Eastern Boundary: Fairford Road, Stacey Street, Hume Highway and Salt Pan Creek. Western Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Southern Boundary: Holsworthy and Macarthur.

North-Western Suburbs Suburb examples: North Parramatta, North Rocks, Northmead LGA: City of Parramatta (North-West Side) Northern Boundary: Hills Motorway. Eastern Boundary: Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road. Western Boundary: Old Windsor Road. Southern Boundary: Parramatta River.

Outer West Suburb examples: Mount Druitt, St Marys, Kingswood, Penrith LGA: Blacktown City Council (South-West End), Penrith City Council (South End) Eastern Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Western Boundary: Nepean River.

Outer South-West (Macarthur) Suburb examples: Campbelltown, Gregory Hills, Narellan LGA: Camden Council, Campbelltown City Council Eastern Boundary: Georges River. Southern Boundary: Nepean River.

Outer North-West Suburb examples: Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Baulkham Hills, Rouse Hill LGA: Hornsby Shire Council (West Side), The Hills Shire (South End), Blacktown City Council (North End) Eastern Boundary: Berowra Creek and Pennant Hills Road. Southern Boundary: Hills Motorway and M7. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:49C6:F3AA:3D01:764D 15:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Concept for New Page Sourcing

Sydney has a compact city centre surrounded by sprawling suburbs, all coming together to form a vast and diverse metropolitan area.

Central Sydney

Central Sydney is very abstractly shaped roughly like a stubby left hand, palm up; The thumb and beginning of the wrist is The Inner City West, the tip of the large index finger is The Inner City North, the second and third fingers are The Royal Botanic Garden and the oversized pinky finger is The Inner City East.

Central Sydney Districts

Sydney The busy Sydney city centre of government and finance, but also home to many fine restaurants, shopping and famous attractions like The Sydney Opera House. Areas include Darling Harbour, Circular Quay with ferry services around The Harbour, Royal Botanic Garden, The Domain and Hyde Park. Wynyard, Martin Place and Town Hall are three of the busiest spots in The Sydney CBD.

Inner City North Just to the west of Circular Quay, now a cosmopolitan area including Dawes Point, Millers Point, Barangaroo and The Rocks which includes the first colonial village of Sydney and the iconic Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Inner City East Surry Hills, Darlinghurst, Woolloomooloo, Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay and Rushcutters Bay. Here you’ll find lots of harbour lookouts, fashion, cafes, dining, bars and clubs with famous spots such as Crown Street, Oxford Street and the locality of Kings Cross. While usually being considered part of Sydney’s Inner City Suburbs, the district is sometimes included as an extension of Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs due to the fact that it’s a conjunction between The Eastern Suburbs and The CBD, strictly speaking however the district is part of Central Sydney and not Eastern Sydney.

Inner City West To the west and south-west of Darling Harbour including Pyrmont, Ultimo, Chippendale and Darlington. Take an early morning trip to the fish markets and follow up by exploring the restaurants, boardwalks, aquariums, wildlife and museums around Cockle Bay. Then find a maritime pub or hit The Star Casino. While usually being considered part of Sydney’s Inner City Suburbs, the district is sometimes included as an extension of Sydney’s Inner West due to the fact that it’s a conjunction between The Inner West and The CBD, strictly speaking however the district is part of Central Sydney and not Western Sydney.

Inner City South Haymarket bordering the southern end of The Sydney CBD is home to Chinatown, Central Station with Prince Alfred Park further south-east of Central Station in Surry Hills. This area is home to markets, cafes, Chinese culture and cuisine, and some cheaper accommodation and shopping.

Greater Sydney

Sydney is a vast sprawling city, and the suburbs in the city metropolitan area spread for up to 60km from the city centre. The traveller visiting the suburbs will find less crowded beaches, parks, cheaper shopping, commercial centres, cultural festivals, and other such hidden gems.

Greater Sydney Regions

Eastern Suburbs (Woollahra-Waverley) Between the City, Sydney Harbour, the coast and The Centennial Parklands. Includes the world-famous Bondi Beach and other famous spots such as Double Bay, Watsons Bay, Rose Bay, Bondi Junction, Bronte and Paddington. Often regarded as one of the oldest and most affluent regions of Sydney.

South-Eastern Suburbs (Randwick-Botany) The Eastern Suburbs’ southern neighbours, located in the south of Eastern Sydney with the commercial hubs of Randwick and Maroubra Junction along with famous spots such as Clovelly Beach, Coogee Beach, Maroubra Beach and La Perouse.

Inner South (South Sydney) An often overlooked part of Sydney which are the suburbs inbetween Central Station and Botany Bay starting at Redfern and ending in Sydney Airport at Mascot. Sometimes referred to as ‘South Sydney’ many parts were once industrial but have now been revived into brand new neighbourhoods of apartments with restaurants, cafes and bars.

Southern Suburbs (St George) Located south-west of Sydney Airport known colloquially as ‘St George’ after the land parish. Main commercial hub is Hurstville, popular destinations include Brighton-Le-Sands and Sans Souci on Botany Bay.

Outer South (Sutherland Shire) Sydney's outer south is within the government area of the Sutherland Shire which locals simply call ‘The Shire’. Located at the furthest reaches of Southern Sydney on the southern shore of Botany Bay including Cronulla, Miranda and Captain Cooks Landing Place. Easy access to the waterways of the St Georges River, Botany Bay and Port Hacking.

Inner West (Marrickville-Concord) Sydney's original suburbs are now bohemian and are a hub of cheap eats, shopping and inner-city culture. The Inner West is a large melting pot of culture and communities.

Inner South-West (Canterbury-Greenacre) The region in between Sydney’s Southern Suburbs and Sydney’s Inner West within the northern part of The Parish of St George. Generally referred to as The Canterbury region with well known suburbs such as Roselands and Lakemba.

South-Western Suburbs (Bankstown-Liverpool) A large dispersive region of Sydney centered around the arch in The Georges River with a wide range of vibrant ethnic enclaves. Major commercial hubs include Bankstown and Liverpool.

Western Suburbs (Parramatta-Blacktown) Home to Sydney's "second" CBD in Parramatta, with history, shopping, eating, all just 30 minutes from the city centre. Relatively large region stretching from Auburn to as far as Blacktown. Also contains Sydney Olympic Park, the home of the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games.

North-Western Suburbs (North Parramatta) A fairly grey area of Sydney which is part of Western Sydney but north of The Parramatta River within the northern part of The Parramatta District. Wedged in between The Western Suburbs and The Northern Suburbs including the suburbs of Northmead and North Rocks.

Hills District (Baulkham Hills-Cherrybrook) The Hills District is named after its topography and is centred primarily on the government area of The Hills Shire in Western Sydney while also including western parts of the Hornsby Shire that are west of Berowra Creek. Greener towards the eastern side similar to that of Northern Sydney regions and becomes more rural towards the west. Main commercial hub is Castle Hill.

Outer West (Penrith-Mount Druitt) Stretching from Mount Druitt to Penrith which act as a conjunction region in between Sydney’s Western Suburbs and The Blue Mountains

Outer North-West (The Ponds) The furthest north-western region of Sydney centred primarily on the northern part of the Blacktown District. Becomes semi-rural towards the west. Includes the suburbs like The Ponds and Schofields. Further north-west just outside Greater Sydney is The Hawkesbury.

Outer South-West (Macarthur) A south-western extension of Sydney within The Macarthur Region. Sometimes including the large area of Holsworthy in between Macarthur and The Sutherland Shire. Major suburbs include Campbelltown and Narellan.

Northern Suburbs (Ryde-Hunters Hill) The westernmost point of Northern Sydney stretching from Hunters Hill and Woolwich on the north-west shore of Sydney Harbour up to Beecroft. Home to Macquarie University and Ryde. Contains picturesque parks overlooking Lane Cove and Parramatta Rivers, great East Asian food in Eastwood and a high technology hub known as Australia's "Silicon Valley".

Lower North Shore (North Sydney-Willougby) North of the Harbour Bridge are leafy residential areas stretching northwards. The North Shore also has major commercial and retail areas at North Sydney and Chatswood, many smaller boutique shopping areas, parks, gardens and Sydney's famous Taronga Zoo.

Upper North Shore (Ku-ring-gai) Includes leafy residential areas, national parks and waterways within Ku-Ring-Gai Council. Suburbs include Pymble and St Ives.

Outer North (Hornsby) Located on the outskirts of Northern Sydney within The Hornsby Shire stretching from Pennant Hills up as far north as Berowra with the entire region bordering Berowra Creek to the west. Sometimes considered an extension of The Upper North Shore. Very green with many national parks and forestland. Main commercial hub is Hornsby.

Forest District (Frenchs Forest) Colloquially defined region named after its vast forestland sitting in between The North Shore and The Northern Beaches although is generally considered an extension of The Northern Beaches within the same council. Most suburbs are fairly green with some areas being semi-rural.

Lower Northern Beaches (Manly-Warringah) Stretching from the large and beautiful Manly beach and Sydney Harbour National Park up to Freshwater, Dee Why and Narrabeen. Some of the most beautiful beaches in Sydney

Upper Northern Beaches (Pittwater) While Sydney’s Northern Beaches aren’t often referred to as two parts, the region stretches quite far north and is split in between Narrabeen and Warriewood. The Upper Northern Beaches stretch from Turimetta Beach up through Mona Vale, Avalon and end in Palm Beach below Broken Bay in The Central Coast. Less populated and still just as beautiful as The Lower Northern Beaches.

Greater Sydney is surrounded by towns and peri-urban areas connected by railways which include The Central Coast up north, The Hawkesbury to the far north-west, The Blue Mountains further west, and Wollongong down south.

2405:6E00:289:B4FC:49C6:F3AA:3D01:764D 15:15, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

• Oppose – I've lived in Sydney for over a decade ever since my upper primary years of school and while these regions do make sense for a resident like you or I, it does not make sense from a travel perspective and on Wikivoyage, the traveler comes first. (and thank you Ibaman for reverting the unilateral changes to the districts). There are several shortcomings with this proposal:

1. Refering to Sydney/City Centre is very postcode-oriented. Most people outside NSW will have no idea that it's referring to suburb of Sydney itself (or the area specifically with the postcode 2000).
2. The other "Inner City [cardinal point]" names are obscure. We use City East, City South, The Rocks and Darling Harbour because these names are unambiguous, the most common names used in English and is what is signed on the ground (for others following this discussion, here are some signs on the surrounding freeways that use such names – I would give other examples, but GSV primarily only includes road coverage in Sydney CBD: [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11] – street signs also use similar names, but I don't have photos of them)
3. More often than not, the Eastern suburbs includes your proposed Southeastern suburbs. If that article does get overloaded, I would much rather prefer that article specifically to be districtified further into Bondi, Woolhara and Randwick city – or something along the lines of User:SHB2000/ES).
4. I'm sorry, but no-one but you considers the Kingsford Smith Airport area as part of the Inner South (this term isn't commonly used in the first place)
5. Your proposed "Southern suburbs" is even more vague – most people in my area refer to that region as the St George area. The content in Sydney/Sutherland Shire which includes both the St George area and Sutherland Shire also isn't particularly large enough to warrant splitting the two.
6. The Inner Southwest is much better known as the Canterbury–Bankstown area (and no, I'm not saying this because the council is known as the the Canterbury–Bankstown Council, it's because that is what's used to refer to that area). However, we cover that as part of southwest Sydney because there simply isn't enough travel content to warrant two separate articles.
7. No-one in the Macarthur area calls their region as outer-southwest Sydney.
8. The Hills district is one of Sydney's most recognizable districts, namewise. Splitting it into northwest and outer northwest doesn't make sense from a travel perspective.
9. The northern suburbs is a vague term. I'd prefer keeping the current name, Macquarie Park and Ryde, even though it includes other places like Eastwood.
10. Is there really a need to split up Sydney/Northern Beaches up into two (or three)? The place labeled "Forest District" is very unrecognizable.
11. The same applies with Outer North.

Don't get me wrong. The existing region structure isn't perfect – but it certainly does use names that are recognizable and one that factors in travelers. I, for one, would favor a district structure that factored in the various serene national parks that this city has to offer (specifically Royal National Park and Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park) on the lines of Canberra, but this structure was intricately chosen because it makes sense from a travel perspective. It's not set in stone, but the status quo is much better than your proposed unrecognizable and non-descript cardinal names which don't help travelers. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, to the anon, are you the same user as Mapper2000? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

In response to all of your points

1. Postcodes are the best way to break up the inner city districts and to some degree areas of Sydney in general. How else are you to properly say which suburbs should be grouped into which category other than someone's pure unreliable POV.

2. While signs in Sydney may say 'city south' or 'city east' the suburbs surrounding the CBD are always referred to as 'inner city suburbs'. When you're in areas like the Sutherland Shire main road direction signs no longer say 'city' like they do in the inner west for instance and will list 'Sydney' instead, does that mean that we should take the signs literally and say areas like The Sutherland Shire are not within Sydney purely because of the signs terminology.

3. Eastern Sydney is generally divided culturally, socioeconomically, demographically and geographically based on direction from the city. Many sources say that the eastern suburbs is just Waverley, Woollahra and Randwick however the part of Bayside Council that used to be 'City of Botany Bay' which is east of The Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream quite often used to be included within Eastern Sydney as well. While Waverley, Woollahra and Randwick all established around a similar point in history and collectively cover the coast of Eastern Sydney, Waverley and Woollahra together cover the older suburbs that were developed directly east of the city around the harbour and Bondi with postcodes 2021 to 2030 before expansion later went south down to La Perouse. Randwick council with the exception of Centennial Park has the postcodes 2031 to 2036 and all suburbs within are geographically south-east of the CBD with newer more spread out roads that aren't as clustered as Waverley and Woollahra. The eastern suburbs also has roads like New South Head Road and Oxford Street while the south-eastern suburbs has Anzac Parade in a completely different direction from the CBD. Sydneysiders in Vaucluse do not consider Maroubra to be part of their area and vice versa.

4. Since when does Redfern to Mascot ever get called the 'Kingsford Smith Airport' area or as the existing map says 'Botany Bay & Airport' which highlights all the suburbs around Botany Bay as if they're part of the same region of Sydney when they most certainly are not as they're all on different parts of Botany Bay divided strongly by The Airport itself. This area is often considered indefinite and hard to define and sometimes gets grouped with the south-eastern suburbs and/or included as part of Eastern Sydney by default. The area itself however is definitely neither east nor south-east of the CBD and is separated from Eastern Sydney by The Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Colloquially the area is sometimes called 'South Sydney' much like the 'South Sydney Rabbitohs' and the former 'South Sydney Council' which looked after the area. Inner South is a perfectly acceptable and accurate term for this region and while it hasn't caught on colloquially the term Inner South is used by The Official Australia Bureau of Statistics in their definition of the region.

5. St George and Sutherland are both part of Southern Sydney this does not mean they're in the same part of Sydney nor are suburbs like Hurstville and Miranda anything alike. The reason I've called the region Southern Suburbs is again to help travellers understand that while the area is south-west of the city it's actually considered part of Southern Sydney being just above the Sutherland Shire. While this region is referred to as St George which I've included in the description of the area, it gets its name from The Parish of St George which actually includes everything below the Cooks River below the Inner West in the Canterbury region however modern day references of St George exclude this part of the parish within Canterbury and only includes everything below Wolli Creek and The M5.

6. The Inner South-West is an odd little region wedged in between the inner west and the southern suburbs. This area is technically the northern part of The Parish of St George which although is included within south-western sydney I felt deserves its own distinction from the rest of the south-western suburbs being closer to the city. It's more similar to the former 'Canterbury' Council, I don't think putting a suburb like Bankstown in this region makes much sense however as referring to a suburb like Bankstown as 'inner' anything would make a Sydneysider cringe in disagreement.

7. Official Australian Bureau of Statistics does call this area 'Outer South-West' as the Macarthur region itself continues quite far south outside of Sydney so calling it Outer South-West acknowledges that it's the part of Macarthur that is within Greater Sydney and not Macarthur as a whole.

8. The Hills is a vague area of Sydney while can mean different things to different people. In a literal sense it's The Hills Council however 'The Hill District' can include western parts of The Hornsby Shire and northern parts of Blacktown Council as it does in the new map, hence the reason for calling it one region of Outer North-West and not just 'The Hills' which wouldn't give a traveller much information at all.

9. The northern suburbs is basically a safe term for the part of Northern Sydney that doesn't fit into the conventional northern districts of North Shore, Outer North, Forest district nor Northern Beaches. It again includes areas outside just 'Macquarie-Ryde' and stretches down to Hunters Hill and up to Beecroft.

10. The Northern Beaches Council is quite a large area with suburbs and neighbourhoods far away from each other. Colloquially Sydneysiders do refer to the region as three pieces. No one considers Manly, Palm Beach and Terrey Hills to be in the same region as each other. The councils got amalgamated to appease the liberal government this does not mean that telling a traveller to expect the same experience out of Palm Beach and Frenchs Forest is accurate just because they're part of the same council.

11. Outer North is a tricky one and like mentioned in its description can be considered an extension of Upper North Shore or if it appeases people 'Outer North Shore' at any rate many people would disagree with suburbs like Pennant Hills, Hornsby and Berowra being included in the Upper North Shore and since they're all part of the Hornsby Shire and don't fit into the 'Northern Suburbs' category I felt Outer North is appropriate, we can add the word 'shore' if it makes the residents happy. Upper North Shore to Wahroonga is already far enough away from the actual 'shore' to then have to also include 'Berowra'.

While you may not like change or are happy and comfortable with the existing maps, it doesn't make much sense to say that they're better than the new scheme which is far more precise especially for travellers who wouldn't understand what 'St George' means. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:581:37C3:DA1:6C8A 16:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Time for a rebuttal? Well, it looks like the time has come.

1. With the exception of a few places like the UK, NL or AR, Wikivoyage for the most part, does not care about postal codes. These have little to no impacts for travelers and especially not in the case for Sydney CBD.
2. Nobody but you and your potential IP socks claim that.
3. Yes, but is there enough content in Sydney/Eastern suburbs to warrant three different articles? Plus, per Wikivoyage:Avoid long lists, it would be much better if they were split up as subdistricts from there (kind of like NYC's boroughs).
4. Maybe that would be a reason to rename Sydney/Botany Bay, which should be done on Talk:Sydney/Botany Bay. That does not require an entire districts overhaul.
5. Local names are always better than nondescript and vague names that you and your potential socks/meats propose.
6. Lack of travel content to warrant a completely separate article.
7. Okay, I'll bite: I have family and friends who used to live and work here. Not a single one of them use the official bureaucratic name.
8. Calling the Hills as outer northwest is even more vague and nondescript since this is a term that no-one uses. I, for one, came to think of Windsor or Richmond when I first heard of that name.
9. No political polemics, please. I'm a local to this area and it's not something that I'd recommend to travellers visiting my area of the city.
10. Lack of travel content to warrant completely separate articles that are intuitive for travelers.
11. I think recognizability triumphs your point, IMO.

Likewise, you might not like the existing structure, but using the example you mentioned, "St George" is clearly more specific than "southern suburbs" which is vague, not as recognizable and nondescript. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

• Strong Agree – It's about time someone has bothered to make an updated map of Sydney. The old maps have fulfilled their purpose however they're now very stale.

1. The old Greater Sydney map has oversized regions and group areas together that don't have much to do with each other nor are they the same. 'Airport & Botany Bay' which appears to include suburbs like Redfern, Sans Souci and Eastgardens, none of which are in the same region of Sydney. 'St George & Sutherland Shire' two distinct parts of Sydney, not the same region. 'Hills & Hawkesbury' these two are not only distinctly different but they're also not even connected via neighbourhoods while The Hills is part of Greater Sydney and The Hawkesbury generally speaking is not. 'Penrith Valley' as a region doesn't make any sense and is exceeding what is generally considered part of The Penrith Area. 'Upper North Shore' while can occasionally include areas like Hornsby definitely does not go up as far north as Berowra the way it does in the map.
2. The new Greater Sydney map has given each section of Sydney its own identity by keeping the terms simple with just their direction from the city which is better for travelers. I do feel however that in the description of each they could include bracket headings of the colloquial names of the areas within the regions e.g. Eastern Suburbs (Waverley, Woollahra), Outer North West (Hills District), South-Eastern Suburbs (Randwick, Botany), Outer South West (Macarthur), Inner South (South Sydney & Airport). I do think the new Greater Sydney map perhaps has maybe too many regions and that certain regions could be grouped with others but unless Mapper2000 is willing to redo their work and tweak it slightly the new map is still far superior from the old one regardless. I feel grouping the regions into the five districts of 'Central Sydney', 'Western Sydney' etc definitely makes it easier for travellers.
3. The old Central Sydney Map is incredibly inaccurate and should not only be taken off this page but deleted from Wikimedia altogether. Darling Harbour is oversized and in reality it does not go up that far nor does it include Pyrmont and Ultimo like it does in the map. Darling Harbour is just the westernmost point of 'Sydney' if you look up the address of The Maritime Museum as an example, it's not a suburb of its own. The City East including Paddington and Moore Park doesn't make any sense as they're not generally considered part of 'Central Sydney' nor are they within walking distance from Sydney CBD and their postcodes are 2021, outside the inner city postcodes. The Rocks area is also oversized including Dawes Point, Millers Point and Barangaroo which are all separate suburbs to The Rocks.
4. The new Central Sydney map is much more coherent and groups the suburbs together well into proper districts apart from Prince Alfred Park which although is south of the city is actually part of Surry Hills which means it should technically be Inner City East. It's also correctly labelled the previously large 'The Rock' into 'Inner City North' acknowledging the other three suburbs. I also feel the terms 'Inner City East' and 'Inner City West' make more sense than 'City East' and 'City West' as the old terms imply that these suburbs are part of the CBD when they're suburbs of their own, Sydneysiders also refer to these suburbs as 'Inner City'. The postcode grouping of Inner City West and Inner City East on the new map makes more sense than the old Central Sydney Map that basically just guesses or assumes what constitutes 'city west' and 'city south' which appears to be purely opinion based.

While the new maps aren't 'perfect' and I feel everyone would have a different opinion or idea of what a map of Sydney should look like, the new maps are still far superior and more accurate than the old ones. —The preceding comment was added by 203.49.228.129 (talk • contribs)

–203.49.228.129 has made few or no edits outside this topic.

I have lived in a few areas of Sydney, so I’ll limit my comments to these areas.

• I grew up in Beecroft and went to school in Hornsby, so I completely agree that this area is the Northern Suburbs. It’s always been called this. Likewise the description of the Upper North Shore is completely accurate. The Eastern Suburbs is likewise accurate and basically how people refer to the areas described.
• In terms of Berowra, when my parents moved from Beecroft we moved to Berowra. I’m not entirely sure what that area was known as. In this case, I do wonder if it might be better for the purposes of Wikivoyage that we name it something more local and descriptive - I’m not entirely convinced people from that area would call it Outer North. I think they considered themselves either as closer to the central coast, but this may have shifted as the area has increasingly gentrified.
• I worked in North Sydney, and that was always known as the lower North Shore. So I’m in agreement with this.
• Parramatta area is considered the Western Suburbs, so I agree with this name.
• I live in the City of Liverpool and we are absolutely the South Western suburbs, but mostly shorten this to “The South West”. I’d include the City if Fairfield in this also.

I hope my 2c are useful :-) - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 10:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Central Sydney Districts.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Will be speedily kept, totally silly deletion request. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks like this user is not here to build a travel guide. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Messed-up transport mapmasks

Apologies – it's a WIP and the output as of writing this is a dog's breakfast. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:04, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

User:SHB2000/Sydney and Newcastle transit mapshapes is a link to what it should look like – I've already implemented much of this on pages like Sydney/Darling Harbour and Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park, for reference. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Re: Mapper2000 using Commons as a platform to disrupt Wikivoyage

See discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LibStar for some followups... Daceyvillain (talk) 04:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)