Talk:Travel as a vegetarian

Untitled

Umf. Is this really an article? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:37, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

It seems like a useful travel topic, but I don't like the name -- (WT-en) Mark 08:40, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Perhaps this should be called something like Travel tips for those with special dietary requirements. It could cover a wide range of dietary requirements from those who are Vegetarians and Vegans as a lifestyle choice, to Kosher and Hal-Al etc. for religious reasons, all the way through to medical or health diets, such as salt free, gluten free, or allergic reactions to nuts or other foods. -- (WT-en) Huttite 09:34, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Hmm, I agree (as a semi-veg myself) that this could be useful, but I'm not sure how to package it. So far we have been adding veggie information to the Eat sections of countries/regions and specific veggie-friendly restaurants to city articles. I'm just wondering how different diet issue when traveling than, say, going out when at home or eatting at someone elses house. Everything I can think of is going to be country/region/city-specific anyway, so maybe it's just best delt with on destination pages? I just hate to see place-specific info get clumped together away from the place articles... (WT-en) Majnoona 11:44, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I also want to say I already disagree with the text-- the UK is not what comes to mind when thinking of veggie-friendly places. Southeast Asia, southern India, most of the US (certainly the West Coast)... and even most of Europe is pretty easy these days... Anyway, just more to the point that it's going to be hard to sum up general travel/diet tips that aren't destination-specific... 11:46, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I would actually disagree with the comments immediatly above. In the UK many restaurants mark vegetarian food as being such with a Green 'V'. I've never seen that in Europe. I've also had to resort to specifically vegetarian restaurants in Madrid for example (at least in order to eat anything more appitizing than cheese on toast. I'd agree that possibly special dietary requirements is a more appropriate name, I didn't really think about Hal-al etc. Also in response to another comment - I'd say diet whilst travelling is different as there's a language barrier and different cultures to deal with aswell. I do however agree that this shouldn't contain country specific information so maybe this isn't the best place for it - (WV-en) sjeapes

I concur. The UK is very Vegi-friendly esp. compared with Spain (though Barcelona has had a bit of a vegi-friendly renaissance in the last few years.) Sometimes it seems to me that a lot of folks like to talk about UK dining based on some old pre-conceptions which were probably true as recently as the 80s but definitly are not any longer. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:38, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

This article survived a vfd, and I'm not sure why that thread is not here, but wasn't there some degree of consensus to retitle it "Travel as a vegetarian"? Would everyone support such a name change, given that this is not merely about food but about eating as part of travelling? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:27, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I will plunge forward and make the change. If anyone objects, please speak up. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:11, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Suggestions for vegetarian restaurants abroad websites

>>Suggestions for vegetarian restaurants abroad websites??

I try to cover the topic as best I can for all of the places I visit (and thus can write about). I'd like to encourage my fellow Wikivoyagers to put a tiny amount of effort into it, even those of you who are not yourselves vegi. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:38, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

Vows?

I rolled back the addition of the suggestion that you should make a "vow" regarding your eating habits. I don't think this suggestion is really travel-related and Project:The traveller comes first around here. Please feel free to discuss, of course. (WT-en) Maj 23:33, 17 January 2007 (EST)

Link keeps on being deleted

Why does the link to the vegetarian restaurant finder keep on being deleted? I'd say it's equally, if not more, important to be able to find vegan/vegetarian as to know phrases to use for telling that you're a vegan. If I keep adding it wrong, please, could you add it for me, or at least tell me what I'm doing wrong? --78.102.107.177 01:13, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Have a look at Project:External links. We don't want wikivoyage to link to information and other guides, because we want that information here. Please feel free to add any vegetarian/vegan restaurants and information to the destination guides. --(WT-en) inas 01:23, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

why extlink for phrases?

I wonder why this link is here, despite our extlinks policy?

Another source of very brief listings of what vegans eat/don't eat, in many different languages, is available from the International Vegetarian Union's list of phrases.

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:21, 12 December 2010 (EST)

What do we think about this? Should we keep this link as an exception to our external links policy, in the interest of vegetarian travelers? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:39, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

They could be added to our phrasebooks in each language, but as the sentences that are presented are not the same for each language, they are just written in Latin script and some languages like Chinese would benefit of some pronunciation advice it would mean additional work or adding inconstancies. Probably the best solution is to just keep the link. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:28, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

I have no objection to that. Any other views? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:38, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

How to make this a Guide

What do you think would need to be added or changed in order to turn this article into a Guide? Information about more parts of the world would be a good start. Anyone want to write about vegetable dishes in various Latin American countries, Sub-Saharan Africa and some European countries not specifically mentioned, for example? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:30, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

At least well known vegetarian dishes around the world and issues you can run into if you are bringing your own food (e.g. this is a sure way to get a fine in Australia even before leaving the airport, and I think it's true for many other countries too). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

As for Nicaragua I know of two things: First "No como carne" (Literally: I don't eat meat) will get you an offer of chicken, as "carne" is understood to mean pork (chancho/puerco) or beef (res) but not chicken (pollo) which for some reason is considered "something else". Saying "soy vegetariano" on the other hand might get you blank stares, especially outside of Granada, León, Managua and the more touristy places like San Juan del Sur. If however you find yourself in e.g. the Rio San Juan region and have successfully communicated your desire to avoid meat, you will most likely have a choice of rice and beans or gallo pinto (rice and beans fried together). Plantains and fruits are also a common option, as are dairy products (though "yellow cheese" is not all that common). Another problem is that the fat stuff is fried in may or may not be of plant origin and it may or may not have been used to fry other things in it before... However, there are some ok veggie places in León (student hotbed) Granada (expat city) Managua (capital, city of more than a million) or the more expensive touristy places like SJDS or some resorts and mybe even Estelí Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

VJML=Vegan?

Are we sure that VJML meals are vegan? Jains do consume milk products. They just stay away from egg, mushroom and root vegetables. — Ravikiran (talk) 08:49, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, we should remove vegan, as the meals may contain dairy products. Danapit (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Probably depends on the airline. In the US, you'd probably be lucky to get some plain steamed vegetables. But yeah, we don't want to give people the wrong idea. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Hiatus

This article is currently written for a vegetarian who is hell-bent on maintaining their diet regardless of how much they may inconvenience or offend others, even to the point of making up fake diseases, but I think a section about what a vegetarian will miss out on, more serious talks about offending locals and being a royal pain to restaurant employees, the fact that you may NOT be accommodated, etc. and the consideration of perhaps leaving your vegetarianism at home is worth adding to the article. Sure, staunch vegetarians will say they "cannot" do such a thing however, there are many vegetarians that do this when they travel. It allows them to appreciate the local food culture and cuisine to the fullest, it makes friendships and relations easier in cultures or situations where you are going to be invited into people's homes (it's particularly good advice in host family situations where vegetarians are often extreme burdens), and just makes traveling less stressful when you don't have to interrogate restaurant staff or wander around trying to figure out where you can eat. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:18, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

While I understand your point, we should be careful about phrasing. Anyone who easily considers to "leave their vegetarianism at home" is perhaps more a flexitarian than a vegetarian to start with - at least to most vegetarians. Now I don't care about semantics, but we need to take into account that for large parts of the target group of this article, these things are important. If we'd just plainly add the information you suggest, I imagine many vegetarians will feel the article doesn't really understand the topic it's talking about, and might loose relevance. Most vegetarians have had plenty of thought about their dietary choices. We should avoid advice from Captain Obvious. They e.g.know that they cannot indulge in all parts of local cuisine. That is also true at home. Of course, this can all be cured with careful wording, I just want to point out that it requires some thought. JuliasTravels (talk) 16:26, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Further to what JuliasTravels says, my take on this is that people who are vegetarians for basic reasons of personal ethics or religion are not going to appreciate a suggestion for them to go against those deeply-held principles or beliefs, just because it would somehow be more convenient for them to eat the products of killed animals during a trip. Would you also suggest that Orthodox Jews should chuck kashrut during a trip and not worry about some lard or shrimp paste getting into their food? I hope not. The fact that people might not accommodate a visitor's diet restrictions, however, is a completely valid and important point, and if it can be stated with greater clarity, please go ahead and do that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm not really talking about religious reasons. I find that people who have religious dietary restrictions tend to be more aware of the fact that their diet is their own responsibility and that not everyone understands it, while people who are vegetarians for other reasons often seem to think that saying "I'm vegetarian" should always be enough, refusing food on those grounds should not be an issue for other parties even in a home setting where the foreigner (the vegetarian) is the guest, become indignant when staff seem unable to accommodate or understand why they're "so picky", etc. In the end one's vegetarianism, regardless of reason, is their OWN responsibility, so if it's important to them, they should do their research to AVOID some of the situations that this article suggests are either possibly difficult (like the home setting) or not really a problem even though it often is (like having a pow wow with restaurant staff just to figure out what you can eat).

Of course wording is important, and if the idea of hiatus is brought up, it should be said with something regarding personal consideration of what it would mean to you to "leave it at home" rather than a firm suggestion and perhaps insert any appropriate terms for this kind of person if they fit, as you suggested. Still, I find that a lot of vegetarian writings, including this page, tend to focus a lot on ME, ME, ME and what everyone else can do for me with not enough focus on how difficult, frustrating, and offensive they really can be for those they interact with. An Australian woman in Vietnam getting indignant with staff because the food they recommended was not vegetarian even after she "explained" it to them, even to the point of using the silly phrase, "It's not a choice! It's a lifestyle!" (it happened) is extremely rude and ignorant. I have seen similar behavior in Japan. Meanwhile, staff are trying their best to understand the customer as they're getting yelled at and insulted. Host family situations are probably out-of-scope, but a lot of vegetarians who do homestays in Japan report that their families were accommodating and they leave with good memories but would probably be quite sad to learn how much the families complained about them to everyone including the exchange organization and were very happy to see them leave. Of course they don't let the student know, but it's one of the most common complaints from host families.

In many places, the option of being vegetarian would only be possible for the privileged, which is why most non-religious vegetarians are found in wealthy countries and vegetarianism is relatively (or completely) unheard of in many developing countries. It's something that I think the traveler ought to give some thought to prior to fussing and throwing tantrums abroad and acting like places that cannot accommodate them are "backwards" or "discriminatory". ChubbyWimbus (talk) 03:43, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining further. A lot of what you're describing reminds me of the complaints friends of mine in the food industry have about people who have no good health reason to avoid gluten but make a lot of trouble for restaurant staff because they've decided to selectively, sometimes avoid gluten for no good reason (and then eat some of the bread in the bread basket or order pasta). But what it really amounts to is bad behavior, and I seriously doubt anything we put in an article is going to cause assholes to behave like nice, considerate people. I get your point, though: If you're vegetarian not because of a firmly held religious or ethical belief, nor on the advice of a doctor that any amount of animal products would threaten your health, then yes, you should consider relaxing your usual dietary restrictions while you're in situations in which strict vegetarianism would be difficult. So go ahead and write something that's carefully phrased to deal with people whose vegetarian diet is not really fundamental to their identity but just a preference. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:53, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

To your more general points: I think it's bad if our articles ignore the difficulties of hosts while concentrating only on the convenience of the visitor. Please discuss this with some specifics in the talk pages of other articles where you find this to be a problem, or if there are too many such articles, start a thread in the Pub with links to all the articles where you think that's a problem. We should be encouraging responsible tourism, not assholery or inconsideration. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:58, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I took a stab at altering the previous tone in certain sections to try and emphasize some of the feelings I and you have listed above however, I'm unsure about exactly where or how to add the information about the "hiatus". It kind of relates to the cultural but kind of feels like it should get its own section. As another note, veganism should be a separate heading, because advice to vegans should be strong regarding how they can expect cultural interactions to go. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:19, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I thought you did a good job, so I'd say, keep going with whatever else (within reason, of course) you would like to say. If it gets too long or too pointed, it can always be edited. If you'd rather do some further work in your sandbox or by putting proposed new text here for discussion, those are options open to you, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:30, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I DO like the additions by ChubbyWimbus a lot. They make complete sense and bring more balance to the article. Being confronted with a situation when one has to decide between breaking "own inner rules / standards" and possibly hurting or offending guests is a frequent moment in a life of a vegetarian. Sometimes choosing a less self-centered approach and relax a bit in own dietary requirements is a great recommendation. Danapit (talk) 18:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

(indent) Okay, I've added the suggestion of taking a break with some of what I've seen/heard from vegetarians who have done it as well as some of my own thoughts. Please let me know what you think and any suggestions for improving/altering it. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:29, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate your doing this. I'm content to think about your remarks without jumping to any quick conclusions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:18, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Possible source

Check later: http://www.ridiculouslyextraordinary.com/how-to-travel-as-a-vegan/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Another one: https://www.fluentin3months.com/travelling-vegetarian/ —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:54, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Which colors are those dots?

Okay, so the text below this image in the article says they are green and red, but to me they look green and brown. Is it me not wearing my glasses or what's the issue here? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:58, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: It's pretty brown to me and I don't have color blindness. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:02, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Brown :) Danapit (talk) 09:18, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Any use?

Another travel guide has Mapped: The most vegetarian-friendly countries in the world. I think they are dead wrong on some of it (for example Pakistan has lots of vegetarian food but they rate it in the lowest category), but can some of their data be used to improve our article? Pashley (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Maybe for inspiration. I agree that the metrics are a bit suspect but it's a good idea to hi-lite vegetarianism globally with a visual. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:20, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

I also think they're wrong about Malaysia. There may be a fair number of vegetarians there, so you can get vegetarian home cooking if you know some of them, I suppose, but it's likely to be quite hard to find vegetarian food outside of cities that have South Indian restaurants, as Malay food typically includes belacan or little dried shrimps in vegetable dishes, and the little shrimps are common in Chinese restaurants, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:27, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Melbourne in the west?

Why is Melbourne in the In the West section? We are not a western country and I don't think we would be anytime soon. SHB2000 (talk) 10:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Is Melbourne in a high income secular/Christian country that was on the US's side during the Cold War? If yes, then it is in one very common definition of "The West" Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

That was a long time ago, the only city that I'd consider in Australia as "western" is Adelaide. SHB2000 (talk) 02:37, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Not Perth? ;-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe w:Gina Rinehart ;) SHB2000 (talk) 04:23, 27 March 2021 (UTC)