Talk:Working abroad

Initial discussion

Thought I would start here before creating this article. Anyone else think an article about working abroad would be useful?

I'd like to get some ideas before starting. I view this as covering jobs abroad something like Mark did?

I figure it could cover the follow:

• Cost of living
• Jobs typically available overseas
• Tips for finding an apartment
• Visas
• How to have documents authenticated by a foreign embassy (I'm currently undergoing this process)
• Expat life

Anyone want to throw their two cents in? - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 02:39, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

I was just thinking about this yesterday. Plunge forward and I'll try to pitch in. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:39, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

That's when I started thinking about it. I didn't want to waste my time and have this VFD'd later, because others thought it wasn't worth it, but I like your judgement so I'll plunge forward. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 02:43, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

Preventing this from becoming Eurocentric

• Japtokal,

As you're the house resident expert on Asia. What would you recommend about "Get in and around". I don't want to get into the trap of making this a Eurocentric article. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:22, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

Planes fly to Asia too, I don't think there's anything particularly Eurocentric about that... (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:31, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

I meant something more along the lines of locations which are better to start off in, For example: Fly to Bangkok and then taking a train to Pattaya? Is train travel easier there than car travel, or are busses the way to go in Asia?

My expertise in the transportation department solely lies on American and European trains and planes. I can score huge discounts by knowing which airports to go to in the EU during a specific time of the year, but if I was going to Asia I'd be screwed. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:42, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

Nitty-gritty like this isn't a question of Working abroad though, it's just cheap travel — and I was writing something about this just yesterday at Tips for flying. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:33, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

Links

We currently have "A local resource for finding jobs in Germany is JobScout24 or Jobs de. In France you will find jobs on CadrEmploi and in Spain on infoempleo.", where all the names are linked. I'd say that, as in the Teaching English article, we should refer people to the Work section of country articles for local details, and these links should be moved to those sections. (WT-en) Pashley 11:20, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:53, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Done. (WT-en) Pashley 23:25, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Getting to Guide

This article is currently rated Outline but I am about to upgrade it to Usable. What would it take to get it to Guide? It might then be a good candidate for featuring on the main page.

I think the main "Jobs available" section is pretty much complete but the other main sections, "Prepare" and "Expat life", need attention. Pashley (talk) 13:43, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Healthcare in North Korea

Is healthcare in North Korea really "almost non-existent"? I know nothing about it, but generally communist countries have invested lots in education and healthcare. Is North Korea an exception? --LPfi (talk) 07:45, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

In any case I think it is better to use a politically more neutral example, if there are suitable ones. I suppose there are several developing countries were public healthcare is rudimentary, foreigners are too few to have their own facilities and evacuation is the best option. Or is North Korea the most probable destination for working abroad among such countries? --LPfi (talk) 07:50, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

My experience — China & the Philippines in this century, several other Asian countries in the last — is that reasonably good health care is widely available, but some is priced out of the reach of many locals & perhaps of budget travellers. I've had various things handled competently; my most serious was gall bladder removal but a friend had a collapsed lung fixed. That said, when I needed major surgery I went home.

I do not think N Korea is at all a good example. Living in China, I met many people who had worked in S Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan, even a few for Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia (country), etc. None for N Korea. Pashley (talk) 18:04, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree that North Korea isn't an ideal example. I've read that its healthcare system is better funded than other countries with similar GDPs, maybe for the reason User:LPfi gave. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Page banner

Current banner.

Suggested banner.

The current page banner is nondescript, and of poor photographic quality. I suggest a new one. /Yvwv (talk) 00:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Subsidized digital nomad work?

Vermont governor signs bill to pay people $10K to move to state and work remotely. Are there other such deals? I know at one time Canada made immigration easier for people willing to work up North, Hawaii had deals for teachers, many cities or regions offer tax breaks to attract industry, ... Pashley (talk) 13:42, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Vegetarian company?

This story claims WeWork, who we mention at Working_abroad#Digital_nomad_work, are enforcing vegetarian standards on employees, no meat at company events & no expense reimbursement for meals containing meat. I'm tempted to remove them from the article; I do not want to support a company that mistreats employees. What do others think? Pashley (talk) 03:22, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Tempted to support. Imposing your beliefs on employees though removal of financial support in doing your job is a bit much. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:57, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I am not sure. I suppose there are many companies that do not offer (good) vegetarian alternatives at in-house meals and events, so boycotting this might be double standards. I also do not agree offering only vegetarian food is mistreating employees (I have no reason to believe the vegetarian food is sub-standard). Restricting reimbursements does seem patronising, but who am I to judge. Their stand (if true) is of course worth mentioning. --LPfi (talk) 08:48, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to remove it. It's not for us to enforce our own views on dietary restrictions – we can just give the listing and let travellers decide if that setup is acceptable to them. As a comparison, I would imagine there are probably lots of companies and schools in India that don't provide meat, organizations in the Middle East that refuse to reimburse for pork or alcohol, and so on. I certainly wouldn't want to remove listings from articles on that basis. It might be worth mentioning these restrictions in the article, though, if true. —Granger (talk · contribs) 09:26, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Maritime crew

The article says that arriving by air on a "maritime crew" visa invites legal trouble. Is that so? I've understood crew routinely is flown between their home and the ship (in whatever port), on routes long enough that they are entitled to vacations. Also, if the job is in regional shipping, somebody from outside that region would usually arrive by air in the first place, why restrict transport options to ships? I suppose there are real problematic scenarios, but is it common that maritime crew visas require arriving by sea? --LPfi (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

At least the other way around it seems to be problematic. When flying to Sydney I talked to an English lady who flew there to work on a cruise ship going around the South Pacific as a hairdresser. She was very worried she wouldn't be allowed into Australia without a work visa (the tourist visa explicitly prohibits any kind of work), despite the fact that she was going to work onboard, not in the country. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

It's problematic in Australia, per [1]. Other countries may differ. K7L (talk) 17:18, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

So that visa is primarily for those already on their ship, it seems (our article says there are no ferries to Australia, and crew will hardly arrive on a cruiser). Presumably there is another visa for those boarding their ship after arriving. --LPfi (talk) 17:47, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Negative side of Working_abroad#Digital_nomad_work?

Freelancer Loves Being Able To Barely Scrape By Livelihood On Own Schedule Pashley (talk) 06:56, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Also 3 Things No One Ever Mentions About Being A Digital Nomad Pashley (talk) 08:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Does the rent-everything lifestyle tie in?

NPR story: The Affluent Homeless: A Sleeping Pod, A Hired Desk And A Handful Of Clothes seems related to Working_abroad#Digital_nomad_work Pashley (talk) 13:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

WeWork having problems?

We mention this company under Working_abroad#Digital_nomad_work. A CBS story: WeWork IPO filing shows it's losing nearly $5,200 per customer. Pashley (talk) 22:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Remote worker visas

Barbados could soon allow remote workers to stay and work on the island for one year. Pashley (talk) 00:49, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

The tropical paradise of Mauritius is offering a long-term visa for remote workers Pashley (talk) 10:08, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I do not think this involves a visa. Hawaii’s new remote work program will pay for your round-trip flight Pashley (talk) 03:03, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

The 15 best digital nomad visas from around the world Pashley (talk) 03:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Thousands apply to be a Finn for 90 days in migration scheme Pashley (talk) 05:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

47 Countries With Digital Nomad Visas Pashley (talk) 08:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

NYT on digital nomads vs, COVID

The Digital Nomads Did Not Prepare for This Pashley (talk) 01:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Banner

Current banner

Alternative banner

The current banner is a somewhat dreary depiction of commuting. What about this other banner of commuting instead (formerly at Ho Chi Minh City). —Granger (talk · contribs) 07:46, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I prefer the current banner, only because the latter banner doesn't really give me that much of a feel of working abroad compared to the old one. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Not accepting employer's transport

The advice to refuse transport by the employer is awkward. If I am going to a foreign country to work, I would certainly appreciate somebody meeting me at the airport (or whatever), informing me on practical details up front and getting me to my accommodation. Using their own car feels natural. Is this uncommon for real employments? Wouldn't I look odd if I insist on us taking a taxi instead, and one that I choose without knowing local practices? Is this step a serious risk if I otherwise have made my homework? If they are criminals, can't they just as easily force me into a car on the back yard of the workplace? –LPfi (talk) 08:33, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

To me (after working abroad for decades) the whole Working_abroad#Human_trafficking_and_modern_slavery section looks like mostly paranoid overstatement. I'd cut it to about three sentences. Who is this advice meant for?

Refusing their transport seems like dumb advice; if they're crooked it won't save you & if not it is a silly thing to do. Pashley (talk) 10:08, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

There was a recent case of Taiwanese people being tricked into call centre scams run by criminal gangs in Cambodia. I think this advice is mainly aimed at them. I don't know the details, but my understanding is that these people are offered a legitimate job in Cambodia, but upon arrival in Cambodia are instead coerced into scamming people as part of these bogus call centres. And it was especially an issue for Taiwan because Cambodia diplomatically recognises China and hence does not have a Taiwanese diplomatic mission, and while China offered consular assistance to the Taiwanese victims (since China claims sovereignty over Taiwan and hence, considers Taiwanese citizens to be Chinese citizens), the Taiwanese government's stance is that Taiwan is a sovereign country and the Chinese embassy has no right to provide consular assistance to Taiwanese citizens. The dog2 (talk) 20:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the advice to refuse your employer's transportation seems absurd, at least when stated in such broad terms. I've worked abroad on four continents and the employer has always arranged transportation from the airport for me when I arrived. The idea of refusing would not have crossed my mind, and it's not advice I'll follow in the future. If there's some more specific and useful advice that's applicable to the situation in Cambodia, we can give that instead. —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:52, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I believe there are similar scams about job offers in EU, where the to be employed people (mostly from South-East Asia and Eastern Europe, I think) end up as sex slaves. I don't know how the recruitment, transport and keeping them enslaved are organised. –LPfi (talk) 12:45, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Bring cash?

We now say

"Bring a solid chunk of cash – several months' salary is wise".

Is this still good advice? If moving from one EU country to another, you have no trouble paying bills and getting money from your bank account as needed. If you cannot pay bills from your account (or that'd involve huge banking fees), then cash may be good for many expenses, but your landlord and local insurance company may not want cash, and neither may some other businesses. Raising limits on your credit card may be as important as bringing cash.

–LPfi (talk) 07:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)