Wikivoyage talk:PIN codes

Obscure term

PIN codes to me mean the numbers you need to use at an ATM to withdraw money. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:38, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Likewise. Never heard PIN codes used in this context. Gizza ^(roam) 00:45, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

I created the redirect as it was in English_language_varieties#Connect. But anyway, w:WP:CHEAP. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:18, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Not if it's confusing. I'd expect this to link to an article about banking, and I don't want a disambiguation of a non-travel term, so I'd rather this were deleted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:47, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

We need to resolve this. I guess I have to solicit comments in the pub and requests for comment... Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm with Ikan here. This is the first time I've seen PIN codes linked to something unrelated to banking. On the other hand, my native Dutch has embraced PIN to be synonymous with "paying by (debit) card" when used as a verb, so that might give me a bias here. Wauteurz (talk) 05:44, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Unless Australians Indians won't think to type "WV:post..." in the search bar (unlikely but not impossible), I'd suggest deleting the redirect as confusing.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:14, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Redirects need to go through vfd, but see my explanation in Special:Diff/4486907. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:18, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

They don't if you would accept deletion, SHB2000. Do you intend to fight this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

No, I don't accept deletion. Feel free to follow policy and nominate this at vfd, but this does not meet the CSD. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:30, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I would expect PIN codes to link to an article about banking, or possibly about protecting your valuables ("set your phone to have a pin code to prevent others using it"). It could also refer to the numeric codes that you are sent to unlock your accommodation if there is nobody in reception ("the pin for the keysafe by the door is...").

It shouldn't link to here as the article doesn't use the term. If the redirect is a kept a sentence must be added explaining this term. It should always be possible for the reader to find the redirected term in the article, otherwise they just give up and go elsewhere - then redirects are expensive. AlasdairW (talk) 10:52, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone, and please also comment at Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#Wikivoyage:PIN codes. I'm sorry we have to spend time discussing this again in Votes for deletion and waiting 14 days before acting. It's not a matter of policy that this "does not meet the criteria for speedy deletion". SHB2000, as you know, when we can get unanimous agreement to delete in a talk page thread, we can just handle things by consensus and not spend more time on them. With your objection that by not posting to requests for comment but instead in the pub, I somehow was handling things the wrong way, I'm getting the sense that you'd like to make this site overly bureaucratic like Wikipedia, but the fundamental thing is to attain consensus, not to go by a book that didn't even exist for most of the time I've been on Wikitravel/Wikivoyage (we had no requests for comment for quite a while, as I recall). But OK, try to convince a consensus that all of the people discussing things on this page are wrong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

"PIN codes"

Swept in from the pub

This redirect was created to go to Wikivoyage:Postal codes, but I daresay, most non-AustraliansIndians have never heard of this term in a postal context and would expect it to link to an article about banking. Please express your opinion at Wikivoyage talk:PIN codes. Should we create a disambiguation for two terms that are not destinations, or should we delete the redirect? Those seem to me to be the only two reasonable options. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:12, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

PIN-pass, you pay cash or are you PIN-ing, and more, are usual expressions in The Netherlands.--FredTC (talk) 06:17, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Right, but this is treating "PIN codes" as an AustralianIndian postal expression, and I'm saying that's too obscure to non-AustraliansIndians to be a good redirect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:14, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

First of all, remember, redirects are cheap – there is really no point in discussing pointless redirects. The first sentence of Wikivoyage:Deletion policy#Redirects explicitly says "As a general rule, redirect pages should not be deleted. Redirection pages provide alternative page titles for articles and allow search engines to locate articles by their alternative names.".

Secondly, what made you think that this was an Australian term? The page I linked, English language varieties#Connect explicitly mentioned that it's sometimes redundantly called such in India (whilst redundant, again, redirects are cheap). Did you think that it was an Australian term just because I created it? I honestly had no idea what that meant before my first trip to India (and I'll add that my driver did constantly mention "PIN code", not "PIN").

Thirdly, this could have really been handled in a much better way. Unless it's something major (e.g. userban nominations, major proposal change or something alike), this should go in Wikivoyage:Requests for comment, not in the pub. Perhaps you missed "If you'd like to draw attention to a comment to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers, try Requests for comment."? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:17, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

People pay more attention to the Pub. I thought about also putting the announcement in Requests for comment but got lazy. But confusing redirects aren't cheap. If you really want to fight this, then yes, a nomination will need to be made at vfd. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:30, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Btw, sorry if anything about this annoys you, and sorry for getting wrong where "PIN code" comes from, but I also felt like you decided to ignore my reply about how confusing redirects are not cheap, so I had to do something in order to generate more discussion, and I don't think there's any important matter of protocol involved in whether notice is given in requests for comment as well as the pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:44, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Now there's a Votes for deletion thread, Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#Wikivoyage:PIN codes. Feel free to put a notice on Requests for comment if you like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:21, 20 July 2022 (UTC)