Talk:Bangkok

Drink

Drink does not mean prostitution and therefore the bars in this section need to be changed to actual bars not places to meet prostitutes. As the section stands now it is quite insulting and not appropriate!

Insulting to who? I've yet to find a first-time visitor to Bangkok who wasn't interested in checking out a go-go bar; it really is entirely possible to go in, have a beer, and leave. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:16, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

I was entirely uninterested in visiting a go-go bar on my first visit to Bangkok. On my second visit I am similarly uninterested.

Congratulations, you're the exception that proves the rule. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:01, 19 December 2006 (EST)

Jpatokal, I am surprised you are still so involved in this project. The outcome, of course, is a viewpoint that emphasizes what you like best, prostitution. You obviously come to BKK for the girls. That is fine, and that is your privilege, but there is more to BKK, although you obviously do not know anything about it. Jpatokal, how about leaving this Wiki to others who know more about BKK than just the bargirls!

Just wondering if the age for going into clubs still over 20? Is it strictly enforced?

I don't understand why anyone would want to *remove* info on agogo bars? If a reader is not interested it's easy to skip. (many are interested, as Jpatokal points out). No point moralizing here, this is about information, not preaching.

Editing and removing listings for massage parlors and bars of any stripe is garbage. Bangkok is what it is. I've lived here for five years now and I can tell you that most people who go to places like Soi Cowboy do not purchase sex. The same goes for Patpong. As for massage, I think the definition of "on the up and up" is code for the writers moral viewpoint and does not add to good travel writing.

Jai yen people, you're reading three-year old discussions. Go-go bars are listed in the current article and are not going anywhere. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:03, 28 January 2009 (EST)

Medium term

What do people think about a section on medium term stay (1-2 months). In BKK. How to rent an appartment for several months, the costs, how to get internet connections, etc? --210.86.146.32 23:33, 28 Feb 2005 (EST)

Districts

I'd like to suggest revising the districts a little -- how about this:

Sukhumvit (Downtown + Sukhumvit, everything on and around the long road that is Th Phra Ram I/Th Ploenchit/Th Sukhumvit)
Silom (Th Silom, Th Sathorn, Patpong and surroundings)
Rattanakosin (Banglamphu + Chinatown)
Khao San Rd

Comments? (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:43, 18 May 2004 (EDT)

Sounds good to me, as long as we describe them with their links so people know what is include where. Good to see someone working on this-- it was one of the first articles we had! (WT-en) Majnoona 12:12, 18 May 2004 (EDT)

Done. I'm in Bangkok again for the 10th time in the last 12 months as I write this, so it's about to time to record what I've learned! (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:16, 19 May 2004 (EDT)

Airport district

I'm going to add [[Bangkok/Airport]] for the airport district (not the airport itself ;) ). It isn't an especially exciting destination, but it would be useful to have some info for people making an overnight stop since it's such a major hub. I know this now from personal experience. And of course as an added bonus if there are hidden tourist gems near the airport, well, someone can add them. - (WT-en) Hypatia 23:37, 27 Nov 2004 (EST)

Why not just place the airport under Bangkok/North? As a name, "Bangkok/Airport" also has the major problem that the airport is supposed to move next year to an entirely different location... (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:21, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)

Sure -- the description of the North district didn't let me know it covered it. I wonder what will happen to the hotels when the airport moves? -- (WT-en) Hypatia 00:58, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)

Good point-- I was going to say that it's a valid district because of the train station and hotels, and cause plenty of people have 9-12 hour layovers in the area and don't make it inot town... but if it falls within the North district that'll be a better spot. Just out of curiosity, when and where is the airport moving? I've spent a lot of hours there ;-) (WT-en) Majnoona 01:01, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)

OK, I'll expand North to cover the airport (you're right in that it wasn't really covered before). Anyway, the new Suvarnabhumi airport is around 30km to the east of BKK (on the road to Pattaya) and in theory is supposed to open in September 2005, but in practice I'll be quite surprised if it's ready before 2007. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:16, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)

Prostitution

Moved from "Do" -- This info is good background info on the issue, but I don't think it goes under "Do," that looks abit too much like an endoresment. Should this be under "Understand" or "Cope" or what? Also, maybe this belongs in Thailand or even Southeast Asia as it isn't just a problem in Bangkok

A major part of Thai tourism is prostitution, and a significant proportion of tourists visit to sample the local girls. Something like 1% of the female population of Thailand works in the sex business (most originating from the Isaan, a poor farming region in the North of Thailand, and in Bangkok to make their fortune), and it is almost impossible to avoid at least limited exposure to the business, whether it be from taxi drivers offering 'massage' (something to be avoided, as they will get a big commission), or the catcalls of 'hello handsome man' from female and katoey (ladyboy) prostitutes alike.

In particular walking through Patpong, with its night market, you will see literally dozens of gogo bars with their gaudy fronts and solicitous door girls leaving you in no doubt about what lies inside. Other well-known areas in the city are Nana Entertainment Plaza and Soi Cowboy (Soi 3), a street off the main thoroughfare Sukhumvit in the heart of the city.

Understand is probably the right place for it. Southeast Asia would not be a good candidate, since it is too general a statement for all of SE Asia. It really is quite particular to Bangkok.

Some removed extlinks

Here's a couple of extlinks I removed that might be worthwhile, so I'll drop them here with my comments about why I removed them:

Tourism Authority of Thailand. I think this ought to be in the Thailand article, not a city article.

Bangkok Post - Bangkok's and Thailand's leading newspaper in English. Offhand it looks to me like a world news kind of site rather than having much regarding Bangkok itself.

Gay Scene

Someone added some presumably good info on the Bangkok gay scene. Unfortunately, it was intermingled with violations of the Project:Sex tourism policy. If anyone wants to try to rescue the wheat from the chaff, the previous can be retreived here. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:21, 26 Jan 2005 (EST)

I added the section, which is to the best of my knowledge accurate, and certainly relevant. I am unable to access this sex tourism policy link from my Saigon cybercaf, it just makes the window close. Please explain why you have deleted the section. (WT-en) Adam Carr 21:42, 26 Jan 2005 (EST)

Your Saigon cybercafe probably has keyword filtering or something... anyway, the sex tourism policy basically dictates that prostitute pricing info is no-no (I personally think this is a little arbitrary, but that's another kettle of fish).

On what grounds does Wikivoyage impose such a restriction? Is Wikivoyage a moral authority? Many thousands of people visit Thailand expecting to pay for sex, it is an accepted part of Thai culture (most Thai men pay for sex, not just tourists), and it is extremely important for the Thai economy. Any useful travel guide to Bangkok should provide this information. (WT-en) Adam Carr 21:59, 26 Jan 2005 (EST)

You're preaching to the choir, brother. =) I also think it's silly, but a significant portion of Wikivoyage's users disagree. Please see Project:Sex tourism policy for further discussion on this. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:38, 26 Jan 2005 (EST)

How about the grounds that the current host of the Website would like to not be arrested? -- (WT-en) Colin 00:38, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

I didn't see any references to child prostitution in Adam Carr's edits. What part of them would make Evan liable to prosecution? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:42, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

The word "especially" in the policy is not a synonym for "only." Mentally delete the clause that starts with the word "especially" and see if it parses better for you in this case. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:47, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

Any way I read it says "sex tourists may be subject to prosecution". How does this make saying "there are prostitutes in Patpong" illegal? Last I checked Canada does have some approximation of free speech... (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:05, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

Thus spake the Sex Tourism Policy: "There are legal ramifications for listing sex tourism information". -- (WT-en) Colin 01:29, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

Thus spake Evan in the very first edition of the policy. Given this [1], which basically says anything goes unless there's a specific law to the contrary, I'd like to see a legal cite for this interesting claim. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:36, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

Listing prices for prostitutes could be seen as pimping/encouraging/advertisement/whatever. It is a very good idea to err on the side of caution here. You are of course welcome to pay a lawyer to write up a policy that has any chance of reflecting US laws (where the site is hosted, no?). -- Nils

Actually, the site is hosted in Canada. --(WT-en) Evan 08:11, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

I've never actually seen a travel guide that provides prices and buyers' guides for prostitutes. I'm sure they exist, but the travel guides I usually use (Let's Go, Lonely Planet, Rough Guide) usually have vague info on prostitution, or none at all. --(WT-en) Evan 11:40, 28 Jan 2005 (EST)

I've added a new Drink section to the main article (I cannot believe it was missing!!) and condensed most of your excellent input into it. Please also feel free to expand the bar listings in Bangkok/Silom. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:51, 26 Jan 2005 (EST)

I prefer to refer to the actual policy document. I'm sorry you have a broken connection, but that's kinda your responsibility to work around. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:32, 27 Jan 2005 (EST)

This is the most absurd discussion I have ever seen. Colin seems to be asserting that because something is illegal, it is therefore illegal to refer to it or describe it. The last time I looked many encyclopaedias, including Wikipedia, have articles on murder, arson, rape, incest and other crimes, and are not so far as I know prosecuted for them. It is frequently asserted that prostitution is illegal in Thailand, and this may well be true although I have not seen the text of the law referred to, so I don't know what specfic acts the law criminalises. It may be that it criminalises only street prostitution, as is the case in many jurisdictions. I do know that the gay go-go bars I describe in my text operate completely openly and under the noses of the police. If they are illegal the police don't seem to care very much. If the acts themselves are not prosecuted, I think it highly unlikely that an encyclopaedia is going to be prosecuted for describing those acts. Colin is going to have to come up with a better justification for his views, which I suspect are motivated by moralism and/or homophobia. If I am wrong in that suspicion, prove me so. (WT-en) Adam Carr 07:25, 28 Jan 2005 (EST)

I don't have to come up with a justification to implement existing policy. The burden of change is upon you to alter the existing policy first. -- cj

Thai law criminalizes all forms of prostitution. But the issue is not Thai law, the issue is an IMHO rather suspect interpretation of Canadian/NZ/whatever law. Further discussion → Project:Sex tourism policy please. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:17, 30 Jan 2005 (EST)

Sexpats

Regarding our friend the sexpat, having spent several months commuting through Patpong (no joke!), I can assure you that there are many, many tourists in the City of Angels who can be described as "fifty-plus, bald, beer belly, stained shirt, lovestruck expression and a hairy arm wrapped around a girl too young to be their daughter." You might not like it, and the above is needless to say a slightly exaggerated stereotype — and so are all the others in the peoplespotting checklist. So on what grounds do you justify nuking this? Doesn't sound terribly neutral to pretend this group of people doesn't exist. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:17, 30 Jan 2005 (EST)

In my opinion, the sexpat peoplespotting was neither derogatory about the sexpat nor was the description stylistically different from the rest of the list. But maybe Adam can eloborate? -- (WT-en) Colin 20:08, 30 Jan 2005 (EST)

Guidebooks

I've never actually seen a travel guide that provides prices and buyers' guides for prostitutes. I'm sure they exist, but the travel guides I usually use (Let's Go, Lonely Planet, Rough Guide) usually have vague info on prostitution, or none at all. --Evan 11:40, 28 Jan 2005 (EST)

The reason why these guidebooks don't mention this is that they are edited by feminists who hate the idea of heterosexual White men paying to have sex with willing partners. They overlook the other sex-tourists from Singapore, Taiwan, Japan and Nigeria though.

These books have a subtle to blatant contempt for White heterosexual tourist who play around. "Frommer's" tries to be neutral but "Lonely Planet" is the worse besides being horribly inaccurate and incomplete.

The guidebooks however do gush over Gay/Lesbians and tell them where to party and cruise for sex.

BTW, I'm not even White and have been happily leaving in LOS for years.

Before thai girl was honest,now i found that they are not honest and cheated, i have cheated by girl and taxi drivers, i think if it would be continue then tourist will be less be careful i went to patpong and one agent came to me and told me dat only 100 bhat u pay and sit there and watch show except this no need to pay..when i enter i sit there one girl bring one beer i did not took after dis she told me dat its free so i took soft drink when i was going one lady came and give me bill of 500 bhat i told why dis bill i did not got anything..she told me dis is bill for one soft drink u have to pay..ohhh shit...anyway i paid them there is a big racket, they cheat to tourist..ohh i will never go to bangkok..of course in pattaya 50% girls honest ..in bkk i booked one girl for whole nite..after 3-4 hrs she told me im going i told why? i paid u for a nite she told me no no i came only for short time and i got money for short time..i told NO.. and dis was our 5 mins discussion but endless she told me i dono wat u told me i dono english ..next day same case coz girls want to be rich soon by all means anyway be careful there dis is my suggestion and my experience
tnx robin 7jan 07 —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 59.95.160.89 (talk • contribs) 6 January 2007

Last round of changes

So some items about the last round of changes.

1. The description of generousity after sex. The text says

Thai culture expects the older and / or wealthier partner in any transaction to be generous.

If that is true, could we move it to the Understand section since you are saying it's a cultural norm?

2. The descriptions of why Bangkok is a great travel destinations for gays. The article implies that it's a destination because of the sex scene. What nonsense! Our you trying to say gays go to a cool place like Bangkok just for sex? While for some gays (and heteros) that will be the case, I think the cultural ascpects, the history, the architecture, the food, and the acceptence of homosexuality (in that their lives will not be endangered for going to a gay bar unlike some societies) are all more important reasons to visit Thailand!

3. The reference to people going because sex is cheap

Thailand being a relatively poor country, even those young Thai
men who do not find western men attractive, or even are not gay at all,
are willing to fake it for what is by western standards a very small
amount of money.

This smacks of hawking sex tourism participation (as opposed to merely viewing the carnival) and must go under the policy.

-- (WT-en) Colin 20:21, 30 Jan 2005 (EST)

Is Colin gay? If he is, he needs to get out more. If he is not (as I suspect), he has no business opining about what gay people (western or Thai) think or do. (WT-en) Adam Carr 06:41, 31 Jan 2005 (EST)

Is Adam Thai? If he is, he needs to get out more. If he is not (as I suspect), he has no business opining about what Thai people (gay or otherwise) think or do.

Does the previous sentence make it clear to you why your argument is bogus? Could you address the questions? Hint: I live near San Francisco, a place where many Gays are role models in the community and there are many interesting aspects to their lives that do not involve sex. If a hetero said that gays only go to Thailand for sex, I'd call him a f*ing bigot. Being gay does not give you a free pass in this matter. (WT-en) Colin 10:51, 31 Jan 2005 (EST)

(There is a separate gay scene in Bangkok for Thai gays who don't like westerners. Its location seems to be a closely guarded secret.)

Is this sentence a travel topic? I would skip that... -- (WT-en) JanSlupski 18:33, 31 Jan 2005 (EST)

I have deleted the section altogether, since it is impossible to get a truthful and useful text past the homophobic and/or sexophobic gestapo who appear to run Wikivoyage. It is better to have nothing than the bowdlerised piffle which now appears. I am now withdrawing from this article so Colin can write his own version. (WT-en) Adam Carr 21:30, 31 Jan 2005 (EST)

Body Tune

FWIW, I've been to Body Tune and they do a pretty good job. If you think US$7/hour is too much for a massage, try $1000 for a package at the Oriental's spa... and if you know a place that does good massage for 150B/hour, add it in! (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:09, 1 Apr 2005 (EST)

Spelling of Kathoey

User Jpatokal states that Kathoey is a correct RTGS transcription. This is not correct, it should be Kathoei. However this is so unusual as a spelling in English, that I propose to leave it as non-RTGS. −(WT-en) Woodstone 17:43, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

My vote would be for "katoey" as that's the least confusing for non-linguists.

Just an Outline?

Is this article really just an outline? Why not a guide? (WT-en) Majnoona 14:42, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

One reason might be that Project:Article status is really focused on smallcity or bigcity articles. We don't have a good metric for what makes a "usable" (or "guide" or "star") huge city, district, region, country, or continent. --(WT-en) Evan 14:44, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

What kind of drug tests?

The Drink section says: "police occasionally raid bars, subjecting all customers to drug tests." What sort of tests are used? I'd be extremely reluctant to co-operate with a blood test, not for fear of being busted for dope, but for fear of disease. (WT-en) Pashley 01:51, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

Urine tests, normally. Not cooperating with the boys in brown is, however, highly contraindicated. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:10, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

Ladyboy vs kathoey

I've never heard of a distinction between kathoeys as transgendered and ladyboys as 'just' crossdressers, and I don't see any of that in the Wikipedia article either. If Mr. Anon has sources to the contrary, let's hear 'em. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:14, 21 June 2006 (EDT)

How do Thais distinguish the two? Obviously, there's a distinction that be made. English has transvestite, drag queen or cross-dresser for one and transexual for the other. Are you saying kathoey and ladyboy both mean either? That there's no distinction in Thai, or at least not in the bar scene? That seems odd. (WT-en) Pashley 04:11, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

I'm Thai but I don't go out to bars much. Personally Ladyboy and Kathoey are the same. Ladyboy uses in formal mention and katoey has a bit rudeness if you call someone that. This is the only different I can see. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 110.171.101.233 (talk • contribs)

Links to dedicated Gem Scam info pages

I reverted the deletion [2] of two external links from Bangkok#Stay safe:

Be particularly wary of any and all offers of gems. These highly professional "special discount" scams, often involving large quantities for resale back home at a supposedly huge profit, sometimes employ foreigners to act as satisfied (but completely phoney) customers. See The Gem Scam and How the Scam works for more details, including advice on what to do if you're reading this just a little bit too late.

The URLs in question are:-
- The Gem Scam: http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Scams/Sapphire.shtml
- How the Scam works: http://www.geocities.com/thaigemscamgroup/Intro/Scam.html

These are primary sources for important info that is directly relevant to, but very helpful detail beyond the scope of, the section. Both sites are reputable, well established, and responsibly maintained; neither are competing guides and they do not contravene the What not to link to guidelines. ~ 125.24.3.14 02:06, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

You appear to misunderstand what a primary source is. The primary source for a hotel is the hotel's own website. The primary source for a city is the city's own website. The primary source for the police department is the police department's website. There is no such thing as a primary source for a scam. Being a good website -- or even the best -- about a subject does not make a website primary. Keep in mind our motivations here: we want this guide to be sufficiently complete here so that it can be useful to a traveler who does not have access to the internet and the website you mention. -- (WT-en) Colin 02:15, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

I understand what you say. I would however have thought that with a topic such as "Bangkok gem scam" where an "official" primary source is impossible, these sites are the direct equivalent. Undoubtedly, if there was an official site, we would most certainly include a link to it, yes? 125.24.3.14 03:09, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Links are always of secondary interest to us. The primary goal is to be complete here. So if you think we have an inadequate guide to scams, we'd rather you make it better than add an extlink. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:29, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Again, I understand what you say; in general, I don't disagree with either the policy or the goal, although it seems that where I see "primary", you read "official".

I think that for advice on what to do if you've become a gem scam victim, external links makes sense; I think we have an inadequate guide to the Bangkok gem scams if we don't include those ~~links~~ resources.

We try to tell people the best places to go in the event of other difficulties - provide the number for the police, give the address of the embassy, list the most reputable hospitals, etc - it seems ironic that we can't tell them the best place to go if they've been scammed simply because the information is being provided and distributed for free by unpaid volunteers. ~ 125.24.3.14 15:56, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

'...where I see "primary", you read "official".' Yes. That is what we mean by "primary source". There can be only one official web site, and that's how we keep Wikivoyage from being loaded down by lots of "best" web sites about a particular topic. We have nothing aginast "information being distributed for free by unpaid volunteers"; that's precisely what Wikivoyage is doing. If the information is valuable to travelers, we want people to find it here, to make Wikivoyage the only "guidebook" they need. For example, someday Wikivoyage will probably be distributed on CDs (or whatever) for people to read offline, and we want everything they need right there in their hand, not off on a web site they can't get at. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 16:32, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

I understand all this (except I didn't understand that "primary" means "official" - if the policy means "only official", surely it ought to simply say "only official" and "no unofficial"?)

There's no information that could be useful to a traveller that's beyond the scope of a Wikivoyage article? ~ 125.24.3.14 16:46, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Since you seem determined to find a gray area in our rules (and that's a good thing) maybe you should bring this up again at Project:External links so we can get wider input from folks. -- (WT-en) Colin 17:55, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Project:External links#Clarification - primary/secondary sources ~ 125.24.3.14 18:19, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Suvarnabhumi

The Khao San Rd service is just one of four airport express bus routes. Unfortunately I'm seeing conflicting info on what the others are, but according to the official PDF [3] there is most definitely a stop directly at the main terminal. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:30, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

I've posted the confirmed list of actual services. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:46, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Go-Go Bars

The opening sentence of this section is currently:

"It's perfectly OK to check out these shows without actually partaking, and there are more and more curious couples and even the occasional tour group attending."

The naive reader knowing nothing of Bangkok is left asking "What shows?". I think it needs some description of what a go-go bar is in Bankok. There used to be some, but it is gone, perhaps bowdlerized?

I could write something, but I don't realy know Bangkok. Could someone who does please insert a basic description of what go go bars offer? (WT-en) Pashley 02:29, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

You're correct about needing some description of the shows. Bangkok/Silom describes a small number of specific things, so maybe you could pick some examples out of that to make an introduction? -- (WT-en) Colin 02:38, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

I just restored the deleted text that was there originally. Someone could probably improve it though. (WT-en) Pashley

I'm still ignorant. What exactly is a go-go bar? Brothel? Strip club? Brothel fronting as a strip club? or just a bar? -- (WT-en) Sapphire 03:26, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

A bizarre combination of "all of the above". They're usually pretty tame as far as strip shows go, and they're not strictly speaking brothels because there is no sex on premises and the bar doesn't set or enforce rates, but the dancers are still all prostitutes looking for customers. Anyway, I've added a brief description, let me know if it makes any sense. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:39, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I had heard the term before, but in the Midwest it means something completely different. Thanks. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 04:42, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Looks good to me too. Thanks. (WT-en) Pashley 04:51, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Doh. Now I see what was wrong. I've edited it a bit to make to emphasize the "this is what go go bars are and why you might be intersted in going and watching" and tried to derail the "this is how to buy a girl" stuff. But let me know if I've failed on that primary goal of "what it is and why the shows can be worth going to." It seemed to me that the restored text failed to really say that some of the shows might be worth going to for their own sake rather than to gawk at mere patheticness, so I tried to add that too based on the Silom descriptions. (And I think I just set a new record for edit conflicts in a row). -- (WT-en) Colin 04:55, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Whoah baby -- why are you nuking the lady drink/bar fine bits, which are already explained on Bangkok/Silom at that? I've bought lady drinks eg. when a transvestite sauntered over and chatted with my curious girlfriend, and the bar fine system — in particular, the fact that paying it does not get you any sexual services whatsoever — is (AFAIK) unique to Thailand and quite unintuitive. FWIW, LP Bangkok explains the system (5th ed. p.33) and, shock horror, even gives sample fees for "extracurricular services" (their term). (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:07, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

I like Jani's text - It helps me understand what not to do if I don't want to take a nice ladyboy back to the hotel. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 05:14, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

The lady drink got thrown out with the bathwater of context. How about we move that whole rules box over into this one since it applies citywide, and I'll grit my teeth and ignore the bar fine rule since the issue isn't overdone in that infobox? It kinda formats badly versus the photo, so maybe you can finesse the formatting better than I could. (Another two edit conflicts. This isn't my day for that). -- (WT-en) Colin 05:27, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Whee, consensus! Infobox moved and pictures tweaked, looks OK at least on my browser now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:34, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Also, most gogos actually don't do "shows" (eg. I don't know of a single 'legit' bar in Patpong that does); the main differentiating factor is just who has the prettiest girls, a quality so ethereal it hardly makes sense to record here. For most part, the few selected in Silom and Sukhumvit are there because they've been around forever and have a reputation of not ripping off customers. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:18, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Whoa, indeed. I much preferred the text before Colin's edits. (WT-en) Pashley 05:22, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Removal of overview image?

Bangkok looking like crap

Exactly why was this image removed from the article? Sure the city looks crappy in it, but Bangkok is a *ell of a crappy city! I think the photos in the article are missleading since they try to picture Bangkok as a green, nice city. It isn't. -(WT-en) Adestro 17:13, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Mf. I removed the image because not only does it make Bangkok look crappy, but (sorry) it's technically a pretty crappy image too — it's washed out and doesn't have any subject as such, so it makes the guide look unattractive. I'd like to find an image that shows "both sides" of Bangkok, but alas haven't succeeded too well -- the Patpong pic (see left) is kinda amusing, and this had a nice idea but terrible execution.

Anyway, you do have a good point and it's back there now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:34, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Great. I didn't take any offence just because it was my shot, and I agree the quality is far from best (probably because there is a window in front of the camera), but it could act as a placeholder untill a better photo is uploaded. I find your caption very good. I like your photo of the ad-signs.

I uploaded a photo in Lumpini park here, add it in the article if you find it appropriate(since it's the major park, and one of the few parks, it might be). It's neither a great photo, but maybe a placeholder? --(WT-en) Adestro 10:01, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

How about this [4] shot or this [5]? (and Jani, you don't need to tell me they're not well executed, I'm lucky when I'm holding the camera right ways up ;-)) (WT-en) Maj 11:54, 10 October 2006 (EDT)

Do you have a larger copy of the Khao San Rd pic? I actually like it better than the one on the current Khao San page. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:13, 10 October 2006 (EDT)

Legal status of prostitution

The narrowly defined act of sex for money (=prostitution) is legal (cf. Entertainment Places Act of 1966), but underaged sex workers and running brothels is not (cf. Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996). Ref. [6] and I'll give you the mail address of a friend of mine who wrote her thesis on this topic if you want to dispute =) And I'd really like to see a cite for the claim that "HIV infection statistics among entertainment industry workers in Thailand are the lowest of all occupations and much lower than non-sex workers", which defies common sense and official statistics. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:25, 10 October 2006 (EDT)

Kosher

C'mon, you have to give a slightly better description than "on Bangkok/Khao San Road" — it's a big place. The name would also be helpful...! (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:46, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

New Year Bombings

I added a Warning Box due to the fact that seven bombs have exploded in Bangkok today. Not entirely sure what warrants a warning box - presumably this does? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Alan1989 (talk • contribs) 31 Dec 2006

District Map

It's not clear how the numbers in the map in the district section correspond to the listed districts. (WT-en) Chuck Carroll 14:31, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the quick fix! (WT-en) Chuck Carroll 16:44, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Star article

What work is there still left to do before we can nominate this as a star article? (WT-en) Globe-trotter 07:27, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Embassies

For some reason, the "Embassies" section only listed one embassy, the U.S. one. I've added a few more, just limiting it to English speaking countries' embassies for now as I presume people from non-English speaking countries would be viewing Wikivoyage in their own language. But I can add more if it would be useful. Also, would it be useful to include embassies of nearby countries, e.g. Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, etc. as people may visit those embassies to get Visas? I guess we have to draw the line somewhere though so perhaps not worth it. (WT-en) Dantilley 02:05, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Yes, embassies of nearby countries are definitely useful. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:15, 2 February 2009 (EST)

OK, shall be done soon(ish). (WT-en) Dantilley 01:44, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Get Out

Why was Surat Thani in the "Get Out" section, a section which lists day trips and short excursions from Bangkok? Have removed this and also added Khao Yai National Park. (WT-en) Dantilley 02:21, 31 January 2009 (EST)

deleted True coffee

True Coffee on Thonglor now closed

2009 March 27

Regions/districts of Bangkok

Draft regions

Let's discuss the regions of Bangkok. I made this draft map to show my idea of the new regions.

Shouldn't we just turn Khao San Road in a district? The current set-up is complicated as Khao San Road has it's own page, but it also is in Rattanakosin. Especially for Phra Athit and other surrounding areas, this is complicated and confusing.

Another thought would be to separate Chinatown, as most of it is technically not on the Rattanakosin Island, and it is a big district with a separate identity and culture. Besides, it has way too many sights to pack it in with the rest of Rattanakosin.

With Chinatown separated, the Bangrak area would be a strange 'island' of Rattanakosin, so I suggest we combine it with Silom. To be honest, I think it fits better with Silom anyway, as the luxury appartment hotels of Bangrak have more in common with the financial skyscrapers of Silom, then with the historical Rattanakosin area. I also noticed that TAT combines both of these neighborhoods together in their brochures (though they call it Bangrak-Silom, which I think is a bad idea).

That would make the districts like this:

(WT-en) Globe-trotter 07:38, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm fine with elevating Khao San Road into its own district, subdistricts was fashionable a few years back on WT but as you've noticed it really doesn't work too well.

I would not necessarily oppose splitting off Chinatown, but would Bangkok/Yaowarat be a better name? It's not just Chinatown, after all, Little India (Pahurat) is in there as well. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:09, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

Yes, I thought about this as well, but I figured Chinatown would be more recognizable to the traveler. Also, the Indian town would be Pahurat, so the name Yaowarat wouldn't cover that area as well. Maybe we could do 'Chinatown and Little India' or 'Yaowarat and Pahurat', but I think it sounds a bit too long. (WT-en) Globe-trotter 00:02, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

Yaowarat's just a road (and so is Pahurat for that matter), I think we can define it a little elastically -- the boundary between the two is already fuzzy anyway. District names should be short, but we can use "Yaowarat and Pahurat" in the regionlist link and include the glosses "Chinatown" and "Little India" in the description. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:19, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

Great map, BTW! Adding in the BTS/MRT lines would be very useful though.

And yes, I think your call of shunting the riverside hotels into Silom is the right one. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:58, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Thanks, yes I will add the BTS and MRT lines when I have some time. I'm also going to add some more roads, especially at Silom and Sukhumvit.

Please also increase the font size of the districts, so they're visible even in a small thumbnail (like above). (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:02, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Will do :) (WT-en) Globe-trotter 00:19, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

I enlarged the fonts and completed the roads, the MRT and BTS will come later. (WT-en) Globe-trotter 15:11, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

Still a bit squinty, I'm afraid. How about bumping the size up a bit more, un-italicing the text and making it 100% black instead of the current gray? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:57, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

Wat Arun

Where do we put it, in Rattanakosin or in Thonburi? (WT-en) Globe-trotter 23:00, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

Tough call — obviously it's physically in Thonburi, but the vast majority of visitors arrive by ferry from Rattanakosin. I'd lean towards Thonburi, but with very clear pointers to it from Rattanakosin. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:57, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

I was thinking this as well. Many travelers also visit Wat Arun by Thonburi Khlong Tour (though these tours also start in Rattanakosin...) (WT-en) Globe-trotter 03:31, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

Bangkok Task List

The successful London collaboration showed that more gets done when it's clear what should happen. That's why I shamelessly stole this table from the Copenhagen Talk Page. It's a list of things that should be improved to get this project further. If a task is done, cross it. You can also add tasks that have to be done. That Bangkok may be a star someday :) :P

District	Status	Missing
Front Page	Guide	Needs more Books (and maybe Movies).
Siam Square	Guide	Could use more Drink and Eat listings. Remove chain stores in Drink and Eat sections and replace them with unique listings.
Sukhumvit	Guide	Remove chain stores in Drink and Eat (notably pizza delivery) sections and replace them with unique listings
Silom	Guide	Needs a pic at either Buy or Eat. Remove chain stores in Drink and Eat sections and replace them with unique listings. Maybe some more clubs at Soi 4. Needs more budget and splurge restaurants as the Eat section is still severely lacking.
Rattanakosin	Guide	Needs some more info on Wat Pho
Khao San Road	Star
Yaowarat and Pahurat	Star
Thonburi	Guide	We could still use some mid-range and splurge Eat listings. More Drink listings. Buy section could use some better prose.
Dusit	Guide	Desperately needs Drink listings! Could also use one or two more shops.
Pratunam	Star
Phahonyothin	Guide	Maybe a few more Do and Sleep listings. Some Buy sections outside of the Chatuchak area could also be considered. But this article is almost done.
Ratchadaphisek	Guide	Needs some more Eat listings. Maybe Sleep too.
Ramkhamhaeng	Guide	Could use more eateries and Drink listings.

(WT-en) Globe-trotter 22:17, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Would say that Silom's eat / drink section needs some vast improvement also, as I mentioned in the Talk section there. Can add to the list? 203.144.215.246 02:50, 19 January 2010 (EST)

I added it, but everyone is free to add their own must-do to the list :) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:34, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Large Bus Terminals

These large bus terminals are giving me a headache. For example, the Southern Bus Terminal is covered in the Get In section of Thonburi, but why? They are meant for getting into Bangkok from elsewhere in the country, not for getting into Thonburi from other districts in Bangkok. Shouldn't they just be dealt with in the main Bangkok article? (WT-en) Globe-trotter 22:02, 4 December 2009 (EST)

New larger region map

The Bangkok region map at right has just been replace by a larger region map (below). I prefer the previous map by far because:

It's easier to read the district names, has more street names, and they are legible.
In the larger image it's very hard to see where the Khao San road and Yaowarat/Phahurat districts are.
Most visitors are unlikely to visit the far east and far west portions of the map anyway, with the exception of the airport.
The new map has a lot of gray space, some of which even covers non-Bangkok areas for which we have an article.

I really wouldn't mind keep the large map in addition to the small one, but I think the smaller one was much nicer and more useful, and we should lead with that one. What does everyone else think? (WT-en) Texugo 22:00, 6 December 2009 (EST)

I Agree on all counts. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 22:12, 6 December 2009 (EST)

Ah, I agree with your input. The larger Bangkok area map can be moved to the Get In-section :) (WT-en) Globe-trotter 23:40, 6 December 2009 (EST)

Dinner cruises

What do we do with the dinner cruise listings? Move them to the districts or keep them here? Problem is that the Chao Phraya river is not really a district (or the cruises would be spread over Thonburi, Rattanakosin, Yaowarat and Silom). (WT-en) Globe-trotter 10:52, 10 December 2009 (EST)

I think the main page is the only sensible place for them. (WT-en) Jpatokal 20:52, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Give them a section on the main page, and perhaps a mention on the district page from where they depart? (WT-en) Andyfarrell 14:51, 22 January 2010 (EST)

TAT Learn listings

Moved some listings of TAT here for future reference. They're all from the Learn section.

Other schools include:

Thai House: (บ้านไทย) [7] Tel: 0 2903 9611, 0 2997 5161 Fax: 0 2903 9354
International Baking School (โรงเรียนขนมอบนานาชาติ) (Opposite Chatuchak Weekend Market) Lad Yao, Tel: 0 2272 5692-3, 0 2272 5663, 0 2272 5654.
Thai & International Food Academy (โรงเรียนธุรกิจการอาหารไทยและนานาชาติ) [8] 1004 Rama III Rd., Bang Phong Phang, Yannawa, Bkk. Tel: 0 2682 7644, Fax: 0 2682 8845.
Suan Dusit International Culinary School (โรงเรียนการอาหารนานาชาติสวนดุสิต) [9] Tel: 0 2244 5391-3.
The Modern Woman Institute (แม่บ้านทันสมัย) [10] Tel: 0 2 279 2831, 279 2834 .
UFM Baking & Cooking School (โรงเรียนสอนการผลิตอาหารและขนมมาตรฐาน) [11] Tel: 0 2259 0620-30, 0 2260 5280-300 Fax: 0 2259 0632.
Wandee Culinary School (โรงเรียนครัววันดี) [12] Tel: 0 2279 9844-5, 0 2279 2204, 08 1916 7083.

A Thai cooking class is also arranged by some of the top hotels. They are:

Bangkok Mariott Resort and Spa (โรงแรมแมริออท รีสอร์ท แอนด์ สปา) [13] (Near Krung Thep Bridge), Thon Buri Tel: 0 2476 0021-2.
Shangri-la Hotel (โรงแรมแชงกรีล่า) [14] Tel: 0 2236 7777 Fax: 0 2237 3688.
Tai Pan (โรงแรมไทปัน) [15] Tel: 0 2260 9888, 0 2260 9898 ext. 2007.
Thai Cooking School at the Oriental [16] Charoen Nakhon Rd., Tel: 0 2659 9000 ext. Thai cooking school.
The Landmark Hotel (โรงแรมแลนมาร์ค) [17] Tel: 0 2254 0404 Fax: 0 2253 4259.

Then we got the following Thai Boxing Schools which are not actually located in Bangkok, but in the surrounding provinces:

The Muay Thai Institute,(โรงเรียนมวยไทย) [18] 317 Phaholyothin Road, Tambon Prachathipat, Amphoe Thanyaburi, Pathum Thani Province. Tel: 0 2992 0096-9.

Fairtex Muay Thai Fitness [19] 99/8 Mu 3 Soi Buntham Anuson, Tambon Bang Phli Yai, Amphoe Bang Phli, Samut Prakan Province. Tel: 0 2757 5147, 0 2386 6117-9.

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:37, 1 March 2010 (EST)

Bangkok Airport Hotels

What is the best way to deal with the long list of hotels of Suvarnabhumi Airport? Should Suvarnabhumi be its own district or should we just delete them? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:45, 1 March 2010 (EST)

As a general rule, only the biggest airports get their own articles, although I have no idea if Suvarnabhumi is big enough to warrant one. I think its hotels can just be listed in Bangkok/Ratchadaphisek, the district adjacent to the airport. —(WT-en) Vidimian 18:36, 1 March 2010 (EST)

Listing them in Ratchadaphisek does not make sense, as Ratchadaphisek is really far from the airport. The Ratchadaphisek district has only been enlarged like that because there is nothing interesting in the outskirts (nothing that would warrant its own district article). --(WT-en) globe-trotter 06:28, 2 March 2010 (EST)

Then, maybe noting that they are located in the outskirts of the city due southeast of Ratchadaphisek and very far from the traditional centre of the district works? I get around a very similar situation with a caravan park near Istanbul by noting that it's actually far from the city centre. Or maybe creating a subsection of "Airport Hotels" under Bangkok#Sleep, though this would attract much spam I guess? Losing useful info would be a shame—there should be somewhere we can list these hotels in Wikivoyage, which aims to be a complete, World-wide travel guide. I even much prefer them to stay at where they currently are (under the heading Bangkok#Suvarnabhumi Airport) rather than deleting them. —(WT-en) Vidimian 10:13, 2 March 2010 (EST)

I agree we obviously should'nt delete them. For now I'll just keep them where they are, but I'm still not sure on where to eventually put them. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:26, 2 March 2010 (EST)

What about we move them to a Suvarnabhumi Airport subheader of the Sleep section? (in the Bangkok main article). --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:31, 2 March 2010 (EST)

I wouldn't oppose that, although something makes me think almost instinctively that such sections should be free of any listing in huge city articles. And as I said earlier, having listings in main article's sleep section may cause a constant stream of spammers and/or users with a good will but little knowledge on how things work around here to list their hotels there, and the endless struggle to move such listings into district articles as a result. I wish we could hear some more opinions on this. —(WT-en) Vidimian 05:09, 3 March 2010 (EST)

Silom line red?

Why is the Silom line on the BTS described as being red in this article? I notice that it is on the map image that's been posted, but no-one visiting Bangkok will see a map with that colour scheme. Can we correct this to describe it as dark green, as is the case on all other BTS maps? (WT-en) Dantilley 11:02, 8 March 2010 (EST)

I used red, because the Sukhumvit Line is also green. The difference was hard to see, especially as they cross each other at Siam. I'll try to find a color that better fits the dark green. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 07:46, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

I now changed the colors to the correct ones, but I'm not sure if I'm completely happy with it. All the lines are blueish-greenish. I showed the new map colors in the thumbnail, the old colors can be found here [20]. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:59, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Violence

Does anyone want to add a warning about the current violence between troops and protesters in the city?

Warningbox

I have edited the Warning Box. I just walked around the area occupied by the protestors and it is more like a Woodstock than a political event. The atmosphere was very relaxed. That does not, of course, mean that the Government or the yellow shirts will not decide to attack. Nevertheless, I considered the previous Warning Box to be too frightening. Bangkok's tourist industry is really suffering and, personally, I see no reason not to go there. (WT-en) Shep 10:31, 9 May 2010 (EDT)

I think the warning box is way too long now. And the advice is not clear anymore: go or not go? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 18:05, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

With the new shootings, I think the current message is too cheerful. Tourists definitely shouldn't go there as the whole area is sealed off and shootings have occurred. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:49, 13 May 2010 (EDT)

Stay Safe

Someone should update the section on political unrest with information about the red-shirt protests in 2010. The section is current only through 2008. -- mpearson42 —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 72.14.229.153 (talk • contribs)

Please go ahead.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 03:11, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

New and modified districts for Bangkok

I'd like to propose some more changes to the districts:

I think Dusit has enough sights now to become its own district. Technically Dusit is also not a part of Rattanakosin Island, so to refer to this area as "Rattanakosin" is a stretch.
The same goes for the area around Siam Square. I don't think its correct to refer to this area as "Sukhumvit" as Sukhumvit Road doesn't run through it. I don't know which name this district would get though: Siam, Siam Square, Downtown? It would cover almost the exact area of Pathum Wan, but I don't like that name, as it's not very familiar for visitors.
Ratchadaphisek now is *way* too large. We tried to move the hotels near the airport into a district, but this is impossible because that area is called Ratchadaphisek (which is not anywhere close to the airport). I think Ratchadaphisek should be trimmed to just the districts of Din Daeng and Huai Kwang. The area east of it should be turned into a new district: maybe East Bangkok, Bang Kapi-Min Buri or Ramkamhaeng? I don't know a good name yet, maybe someone can come up with something better.
Instead of having Phetchaburi Road as the dividing line between Sukhumvit and Phahonyothin/Ratchadaphisek, I think Khlong Saen Saep should be dividing the districts. Now the Pratunam area is divided between 2 districts which is confusing (which led to Pratunam Market being in Phahonyothin while Pantip Plaza is in Sukhumvit. Not logical I think). All streets north of Khlong Saen Saep do not belong to the sois of Sukhumvit, so I think should be included with Phahonyothin or Ratchadaphisek.
Going further on the previous point, I think the district of Ratchathewi should not be spread over three districts (Sukhumvit, Phahonyothin and Ratchadaphisek). I think it fits best completely in Phahonyothin.

Please let me know what you think. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 07:53, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

I implemented the last 2 points as they dont seem very controversial. But I still need some input before I can head on with the first three points. Please tell me what you think about them. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:18, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

Map of Siam Square

I'd like to go ahead and create the Siam Square district (break it off from Sukhumvit as shown on the map). I'd like some input before I go ahead and change everything. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 03:04, 25 May 2010 (EDT)

As there were no objections, I put through and created the Dusit and Ramkamhaeng districts. I think Bangkok's district structure now is pretty much completed. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:35, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

Never saw this, but I concur - nice work--(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 12:02, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

Central World

...is, despite the news, nowhere near destroyed [21], only one end of it got thoroughly toasted and may need to be pulled down. Obviously the entire complex will be closed for quite some time though. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:42, 21 May 2010 (EDT)

Obviously it is in a very bad state, so we'll just note that it is closed due to fires in the article. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 04:43, 21 May 2010 (EDT)

According to the news, parts of it will reopen in 6 months (the backside). The frontside (ZEN) will probably have to be rebuilt. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 07:38, 22 May 2010 (EDT)

The "Buy" section: innacurate, writing style innapropriate for an encyclopedia

"Dump a teenager in Siam Square with a few thousand baht and she'll stay occupied for the rest of the week!"

Really? That's an innacurate description of Siam Square, as if it was the size of JJ Market. Writing style innapropriate for an encyclopedia.

"Siam Square is the place to shop in Bangkok"

Subjective opinion, does not belong in an encyclopedia.

"MBK Center and Siam Center are the most popular shopping malls, as they sell fashion well below Western rates. Siam Paragon and the shopping plazas at Ratchaprasong feel even larger, but are much quieter, as most local Thais cannot afford the Guccis and Louis Vuittons on sale there."

Innacurate. There are as many people visiting Paragon than MBK or Siam.

"Ladies will also feel well at home in the Emporium in Sukhumvit."

Why will "ladies" feel at home at Emporium, and not men? Seriously, who wrote this?

"Just take a few steps out of your hotel and Bangkok feels like a huge street market."

Innacurate. I just took a few steps out of my hotel and it does not fit the description.

"Sukhumvit has the usual souvenirs, t-shirts, pirated DVDs and other tacky tourist junk."

"Tacky", "junk". Subjective description. Does not belong in an encyclopedia.

"Men will probably have a better time at Pantip Plaza, selling computer-related stuff from branded laptops to pirated DVDs."

Why "men"??? Women use just as much cellphones, and laptops. Seriously, whoever wrote this must have used a travel machine from 1960.

This section is pathetic, and badly needs an edit.

Most of this I haven't wrote, some I have, but this is a travel guide, not an encyclopedia. Subjective writing is a goal of Wikivoyage, not something we want to avoid here. I think it's a good section with some lively writing. About each point:

Siam Square is very large, especially if meant to encompass the whole district covered here.
Siam Square is by far the most important place to go shopping, almost any tourist does so.
From walking around, it's clear that MBK and Siam Center are much more crowded by locals than Siam Paragon.
It refers to ladies at Emporium, because it's mostly about clothes. Sure, men buy clothes too, but are not so fanatic at it.
Compared to any other city, there are food stalls and markets everywhere in Bangkok, so I think this is perfectly fine written.
Well, the stuff for sale there is tacky tourist junk, it's almost an objective statement. No reason to retract that.
Sure women use computers, but in general, mostly men are interested in buying the newest computer hardware and such.

I really don't think any edit is required from what you've written. Remember that this is not Wikipedia. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 00:35, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

Peoplespotting

Latest comment: 11 years ago10 comments4 people in discussion

This special box on people spotting is stupid. How many different type of people are excluded from this list? An how about the over emphasis on GIRLS! Where are the monks, where are the middle class, where are the Hi-So's?

My recommendation is delete the box. But, what do I know, I have only lived here for 15 years?

I don't see anything wrong with it... the first sentence points out that it's a "partial list"... and I don't think anyone's looking for an ecyclopedia of people watching in Bangkok anyway, that would be fairly boring. It's fun, witty, and gives a little insight into the place... which is pretty much what we're trying to do here... – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 03:01, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

An anonymous user with an inconsistent approach to puritanism is attacking this infobox. "Office lady" is being repeatedly changed from Sharply clad in infinite variations of solid pastel shades, this human houseplant mans customer service desks and pours tea in offices across the capital.

to

Sharply clad in infinite variations of solid pastel shades, these ladies man customer service desks and pour tea in offices across the capital.

I disagree to this change for several reasons. This list is clearly irreverent and not be taken too seriously. Though here, whether the list should remain in the article is not being questioned. As already noted in the June 2005 discussion "Sexpats" (below), the list is meant to be of "slightly exaggerated stereotype[s]", which it is. If it were lose its seemingly flippant irreverence it would lose much of its edge.

This revision should be undone because it still maintains that the "Office lady" is a decorative drinks dispencer, which goes against its politically correct spirit. The Bowdler is only picking on Office lady, which is discrimanting in itself and against their perceived egalitarian motivation.

Rendering bland is against the spirit of Wikivoyage-if an amusing, equally acerbic alternative were proposed it wouldn't be so bad. "Human houseplant" is witty and has a nice sound; I think it should remain.

Overall, the revision does not achieve what its proponent aimed (removing the pique from the statement) and it degrades the quality of the original.

Rant over. (WT-en) Travelpleb 11:45, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

Describing millions of women, many of whom are highly qualified and in responsible jobs, as being "houseplants" is inaccurate, offensive and sexiest. Such a misogynist attitude adds nothing of value to a travel guide, and that it is not anywhere close to being a true reflection of the city's women also leads to questioning of why anyone would want it to be included. That someone finds this outdated view of women to be amusing and even witty is disturbing; to include it would be an embarrassment to Wikivoyage and risks damaging its reception with the less bigotted of the world. Those holding such discriminatory views of Thai women would be well served in attending the Cedaw meeting: [22] A review of the edit history reveals I am far from the only person to have expeessed concern. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 58.8.95.242 (talk • contribs)

Travelpleb's points seem pretty spot on to me. The line in question seems to me tongue-in-cheek, pointing to a perceived pervasive sexism and gender inequality in Thai professional culture, and not a shot at women. I'm neither an expert nor the author, though.

The reality of a wiki is that any attempt to write colorfully can attract gripes about offense or taste, which is why we follow the guidance at Project:Tone to avoid seeing creative writing constantly neutered. Per that policy: "If you find writing that seems informal or sarcastic to an unacceptable degree, do not simply "dull down" the prose. Instead, replace it with travel writing that is both more acceptable and just as lively." --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:57, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

The estimable 58.8.95.242 is unfortunate in thinking that a grand sounding government get-together and reality on the street (or in the office) are inextricably connected. They are not. Some office workers, a traditionally male occupation, who otherwise assume traditional female gender roles but not necessarily belong to what is conventionally called the female sex are indeed capable professionals who act and are treated in a way in line with progressive Western ideas of equality; others are only employed on a pretense and function solely to make the tea and liven up the drudgery of the boss's marriage; others still occupy various places in a complicated spectrum between the two where aspiration battles prejudice. Such is the mess of the modern world.

However to express such "a true reflection of the city's women" in a silly info box would be chronically dull, hopelessly stilted and serve only to make anyone with the slightest sense want to throw themselves in the Chao Phraya. As the sentence currently stands, it is not an "outdated view of women"; it is a view that pervades many offices in Bangkok. That such attitudes are ruled illegal in the counties of wikivoyage's target readers is all the more reason to draw their attention to the situation. From the point of view of phraseology, I find the metaphor amusing and its alliteration pleasing.

This revision achieves nothing. Perhaps 58.8.95.242 is of a culture that reveres the pouring of tea and sees nothing daft about employing decorative women to perform such a noble duty. To a Western reader, "pours tea" is the epitome of office uselessness; interns are irreverently called "tea boys (or girls or sex or gender ambiguous persons)". Therefore changing the two words in question does not change the thrust of the sentence. It only blunts it; and wit should be sharp. (WT-en) Travelpleb 01:55, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

Earlier today at the Cedaw meeting I tabled a motion for this insulting description of Thai women to be investigated by The Travel Authority Of Thailand. The motion was passed, and therefore TAT are to be asked to investigate and then possibly formally contact Wikivoyage. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 61.90.13.135 (talk • contribs)

Wikivoyage aims to resolve dissagreements through reaching concensus on articles' Talk pages. For this purpose you'd be better to respond to the raised issues rather than waste the UN's time.(WT-en) Travelpleb 04:11, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Hey, so I know its been almost a year since this was last discussed, but while reading the infobox, the word "human houseplant" really stuck out to me. Is "human houseplant" a commonly used phrase somewhere? Arguments about the objectification of women aside, it doesn't really tell me much about them. It read to me more like someone awkwardly reaching for something edgy to say just for the sake of saying something edgy, as opposed to a necessary characterization.

I know we're trying to write lively stuff here, but this just feels kind of unnecessary. KhwamRock (talk) 13:30, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I am with you, Rock! Let's amend it and be done with it! Seligne (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Sweet deal! It looks like the original complaint about this section also mentioned that it was missing monks and Hi-So's. I'm going to add them, since they're definitely interesting people to look out for. Let me know what you guys think.

I rewrote the Peoplespotting info box, but my edit was reverted by Travelpleb. Would you please take a look at my edit and tell me what you think? Seligne (talk) 10:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

See my 24 March 2012 post at the top of this section. Note the "decorative drinks dispenser" comment.Travelpleb (talk) 12:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

OK, I read it. What now? Tell me, are you the author of the info box? Is that why you feel so proprietary about it? I like the info box, but I think the bit about the office girl as written is not funny, not well written, and detracts from the wit shown in the other descriptions. One thing that we agree on is that this site needs some humour and engaging prose. I think the bit we're discussing exhibits neither. Let's see what others think. Seligne (talk) 13:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I think the box was the creation of political correctness' anti-christ, Jpatokal. Don't forget that Thai attitudes to sex and gender, when not being ignored or taken advantage of, generally shock and upset westerners. Why should we gloss over this and pretend everything's OK when it ain't?Travelpleb (talk) 13:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'm not saying we should gloss over Thai cultural attitudes. Just that we shouldn't adopt them in our own writing style. By calling them "human houseplants", it doesn't feel as though we're shining a light on gender disparity. Rather, it feels like we're perpetuating it through our choice of words. It seems like some of you guys are really married to the phrase, so I'm not going to continue this argument. However, I want to register my discontent in case someone else feels the same later and comes here. KhwamRock (talk) 09:58, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Whoa! I just realised that all of this is way over my head! I thought they were being referred to as "human house plants" because their only job is to smile, pour tea, and look nice. But what I am getting now is that somehow they are symbols of dysfunctional gender relationships in Thailand and that calling them "HHPs" somehow points that out. My naivete! I appreciate your understanding and explanation, but I don't like it any better than I did before. Seligne (talk) 14:30, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Good humor maintains a difficult balance between the lighthearted and the profound.Travelpleb (talk) 08:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

@Seligne: Imho it would be sad to remove the houseplant without any change in the thai reality. I understand why Rock and you have a point that it is not political correct but when i remember my thai business partners, his office ladies fulfilled the criterias 100%. I like the way it is, so please come up with something really good as an alternative. jan (talk) 10:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Jewelry

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm going to get a gold engangement ring for my soon to be fiance. Where should I go with many selections? —The preceding comment was added by 110.171.101.233 (talk • contribs)

Try going to the Thailand sub-Reddit and posting the question there. You might want to mention where you are located. http://www.reddit.com/r/Thailand/ Seligne (talk) 00:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Wikivoyage launch! Does this page need any work?

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I got sucked in here by the banner on Wikipedia. This page looks great right now, are there any ways we can improve it or places where it seems lacking? So far I'm thinking about rewriting the second paragraph of the intro to make it more "travel relevant" as history is covered pretty well in "Understand". I'll try and tackle that in the next day or so. I've been in Bangkok since last May and will be here until October. If some part of the city needs more exploration or a certain section needs more meat, I can make an effort to visit such places and gather more info. KhwamRock (talk) 13:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Alternative banner for this article?

Latest comment: 7 years ago8 comments7 people in discussion

old banner currently used in this article

suggested new banner (which is currently used in the parallel article in the Hebrew Wikivoyage)

Templo Wat Arun, Bangkok, Tailandia

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 03:41, 5 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I can anticipate that some people will react by saying that a banner with just taxis is creative, and that the appearance of the taxis is peculiar to Bangkok, whereas the panorama resembles several other cities, but to me, it's a beautiful panorama and much more interesting to look at than four taxis, so I would definitely favor replacing the current banner with this one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree with IK. Seligne (talk) 05:35, 5 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Neither of these really impress me. Bangkok is a city with such famous and beautiful sites that I think we can surely do better. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 00:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

A rather late comment (by 3 years) but I agree with ChubbyWimbus that we can do better. This could be any city at night. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:46, 23 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

How about this one? --ButteBag (talk) 16:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Yes, absolutely go with the temple. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Definitely an improvement! Globe-trotter (talk) 18:26, 29 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Cremation of King Bhumibol

Latest comment: 7 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

At channelnewsasia it says the cremation wll take place on October 26 this year. Also the English and Thai Wikipedia have this info. Should this info be on Wikivoyage, combined with practical info like where to watch and how to behave? Is the Bangkok page the best place for such info, or is there a better place for it? --FredTC (talk) 14:39, 22 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

IMO, yes and yes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:43, 23 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Do not expect a funeral pyre
that totally burns down.
But do expect a Crematorium like this (this one is Princess Galyani's).
It has a moderne cremation oven inside the Crematorium.

Below the text as placed in the Dutch version. I provided a raw translation. Maybe someone can make it in better English. --FredTC (talk) 06:00, 22 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Dutch version	Raw translation, without pics
26 oktober 2017 edit De bijna voltooide bouwactiviteiten rond het crematorium op Sanam Luang. De hoek van Thanon Thai Wang en Thanon Sanam Chai Deze 26e oktober is de tweede dag van een serie van vijf dagen met plechtigheden. De plechtigheden op de overige dagen zijn niet voor een groot publiek toegankelijk. De precieze tijden variëren nog wat per bron. Raadpleeg de Engelstalige Thaise kranten (Bangkok post en The Nation) en ook deze voor de recentste informatie. Respect: De Thaise koning was buitengewoon geliefd, respectloos gedrag kan tot heftige reacties leiden (zie ook deze richtlijnen van de huidige koning). Draag zwarte kleding. Laat je niet uit over de koning, het kan verkeerd opgevat worden. Tijdschema: Zie ook dit schema in dagblad The Nation (met download van een PDF-bestand van het schema) De overbrenging van het lichaam van de koning zal om 07:00 beginnen. In circa 30 minuten wordt de urn met het lichaam van de koning op een draagplateau (palanquin) overgebracht naar de hoek van Thanon Thai Wang en Thanon Sanam Chai. Daar wordt het overgebracht naar de Great Victory Chariot. Dit is de eerste processie. Er zijn 965 militairen bij betrokken en de lengte van de route is 817 meter. Het overbrengen van het lichaam van de koning van het draagplateau naar de Great Victory Chariot zal enige tijd in beslag nemen. Hier, op de hoek Thanon Thai Wang en Thanon Sanam Chai, zullen veel belangstellenden zijn. Vanaf dit punt zullen ook veel militaire corpsen aan de processie worden toegevoegd. De tweede processie begint als het lichaam van de koning op de Great Victory Chariot (getrokken door 172 personen en geduwd door nog eens 44 personen) is geplaatst. De route strekt zich uit over Thanon Sanam Chai en Thanon Ratchadamnoen Nai, tot het punt waar de ingang naar Sanam Luang is. Daar wordt het lichaam van de Koning overgebracht naar een affuit. Deze tweede processie zal naar verwachting 2 uur duren, en er nemen 2406 militairen aan deel. Het affuit wordt vervolgens in de derde processie 3x tegen de wijzers van de klok in rond het crematorium gereden. Bij elke rondgang wordt een afstand van 260 meter afgelegd. Het affuit wordt door 40 personen getrokken, en verder zijn en in het totaal zijn er 781 militairen bij betrokken. Aan het einde van deze derde processie wordt de urn via een lift naar het crematorium overgebracht. Dit zal goed te zien zijn vanaf het punt waar de tweede processie eindigt; ook hier kunnen daardoor extra veel belangstellenden verwacht worden. De derde processie zal circa 30 minuten duren. Om 17:30 zal er een symbolische crematie plaatvinden, waarbij bloemen die uit sandalwood zijn gesneden, worden verbrand. Om 22:00 zal de feitelijke crematie plaatsvinden. Verwacht geen grote constructie ... ... die helemaal verbrand. Maar verwacht een crematorium zoals deze van Princess Galyani Vadhana. Met een moderne crematie-oven. Een vergelijkbare gebeurtenis: de crematie van Princess Galyani Vadhana. Een vergelijkbare gebeurtenis: de crematie van Princess Galyani Vadhana. Een vergelijkbare gebeurtenis: de crematie van Princess Galyani Vadhana. Draagkoets waarmee de lijk-urn van het paleis naar de lijkkoets wordt gedragen. Lijkkoets die de lijk-urn naar het crematorium vervoert. De koets van 13,7 ton wordt getrokken door 172 personen en geduwd door 44 personen. Het Thaise cijfer 9 (๙) dat je overal in Thailand tegenkomt. Hier op een t-shirt, maar ook in sieraden die worden gedragen en in bloemversieringen.	26th of October 20 17 edit This 26th of October is the second day of a series of five days with ceremonies. The ceremonies on the other days are more closed. The exact times vary per source. Consult the English Thai newspapers (Bangkok post and The Nation) and also this one for recent information. Respect: The Thai king was extraordinary beloved, respectless behaviour can result into severe reactions (see also these guidelines by the present king). Ware black clothes. Avoid talking about the king, it could be misinterpreted. Timeline: See also this schedule in The Nation (with a download of a PDF-file of the schedule) Transporting the body of the king starts at 07:00. In circa 30 minutes the urn with the body of the king will be brought on a palanquin to the corner of Thanon Thai Wang and Thanon Sanam Chai. There it wil be placed on the Great Victory Chariot. This is the first procession. 965 troops ae involved. Distance 817 meters. The changing from palanquin to the Great Victory Chariot will take some time. Here, at the corner of Thanon Thai Wang and Thanon Sanam Chai, it might become very crowded. From here many troops will join the procession. The second procession begins when the urn is on the Great Victory Chariot (pulled by 172 persons and pushed by another 44 persons). The route is over Thanon Sanam Chai and Thanon Ratchadamnoen Nai, until the entrance to Sanam Luang. There the urn is transferred to the Royal Gun-carriage. This second procession will take 2 hours, involving 2406 troops. The Royal Gun-carriage will then, in a third procession 3x counter clock wise pulled around the crematory. Each round being 260 meters. The Royal Gun-carriage will be pulled by 40 personens, and 781 troops are involved. Aan het einde van deze derde processie wordt de urn via een lift naar het crematorium overgebracht. If you watch from this point, you will experience a big crowd. This procession will take 30 minutes. At 17:30 a symbolic cremation, burning sandalwood flowers. At 22:00 the actual cremation.

The Understand section says "Thailand remains in mourning for King Rama IX...". Is it still the case one month after the cremation or should we remove the paragraph? Fred, Seligne?ϒpsilon (talk) 11:32, 7 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think the paragraph can be removed. Even on December 5th (the former kings birthday) there was nothing special/emotional going on. --FredTC (talk) 11:39, 7 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

I agree with Fred. Seligne (talk) 12:56, 7 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

Propose GrabBike in Bangkok

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

If you don't want any bargain and need fixed priced in advanced, so GrabBike (Win) is the option. It will come in about ten minutes, after the book and can see first how much the fixed payment should be paid, before book in the application. Due to many roads in Bangkok are one way direction, so the trip maybe rather far than onfoot, but usually the trip around center of Bangkok is about 2 to 5 kilometers. The GrabBike tariff is 25 Bath for first 2 kilometers and 5 Bath for each kilometer with maximum additional 3 kilometers. For long trip above 5 kilometers, the tariff is more expensive, 50 Bath for the first 5 kilometer and 10 Bath for each kilometer with maximum additional 10 kilometers and then 15 Bath for each kilometers for the rest.Gsarwa (talk) 04:24, 6 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

It's not a problem to list this service. The problem is the amount of editing needed to transform it this text into decent English. Anyone who wants to do it, hats off to them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:33, 6 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

Directions from Don Mueang Airport are backwards and use abbreviations

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This refers to section Get In -> By Plane -> Don Mueang Airport. People who read this section are most likely in Bangkok for the first time. The directions are backwards, i.e. describe how to get *to* the airport instead of *from* the airport into Bangkok. Also they use a lot off abbreviations, e.g. BTS which is not understandable if you haven't been in Bangkok. —The preceding comment was added by Pfeffermakrele (talk • contribs)

Pfeffermakrele, please plunge forward and fix these problems if you have time to do so. Thanks a lot! Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

Caution box

Latest comment: 3 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Are the protests still a problem now, or have those protests largely ceased? @The dog2:? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:14, 8 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: I am not in Bangkok so I wouldn't know whether they are continuous or intermittent, but based on the news reports I've been seeing, they are still ongoing. It's probably not going to end anytime soon since the Thai government is still basically controlled by the military, and I just don't see any way the military government or monarchy is going to be toppled. And the protests also stem from a desire purge Thailand of Chinese influences (because China is now the largest foreign investor in Thailand, and has been investing a lot in building up Thailand's infrastructure these past few years) and align Thailand's foreign policy fully with the U.S. instead, which I don't think is going to happen for as long as the military government remains in power. The dog2 (talk) 04:55, 8 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Have a look at the revision history of the Wikipedia article 2020–2021 Thai protests. Maybe the link to the article could be added to the text in the Caution box. --FredTC (talk) 11:01, 8 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Which of these prices are still up-to-date?

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

These prices haven't been updated for a long time. Are these still up-to-date? If possible, please write the (approximate) month and year, when you checked it (e.g. Sept 2020)

Regarding all red marked prices here:

https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/4355822

and here:

https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/4356078 Flightnavigator (talk) 21:35, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Phone number format

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

This guide is listed in Category:Listing with phone missing country code. But the error highlighter couldn't catch any phone number format issues. @Ikan Kekek, @SHB2000, @Ground Zero. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:45, 27 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

You probably have to ask @Wrh2: who is inactive. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:45, 27 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay 2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:46, 27 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

The phone number of the Iceland consulate was formatted wrong. I made the correction. --FredTC (talk) 08:37, 27 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks 2006nishan178713^t@lk 08:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Pronunciation of Suvarnabhumi

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I think we should have a note on how to pronounce this. This spelling is a transliteration of the original Sanskrit word the name was derived from, but the modern Thai pronunciation is closer to "Soo-waht-nah-poom", so if you pronounce it phonetically, Thais will have no idea on what you are talking about. The dog2 (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think the part "waht" is not correct, I think it should be "wahn", making "Soo-wahn-nah-poom". See also w:Suvarnabhumi Airport. --FredTC (talk) 01:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

OK, I don't speak Thai, so I might be mistaken. But my experience from visiting Thailand is Thais will have no idea what you're talking about if you pronounce it phonetically. If you know better, please add a note to the article on the pronunciation. The dog2 (talk) 03:17, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Update Internet Situation

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Hey, I am new to this wiki stuff. I am thinking about rewriting the whole "Internet" part, because it seams outdated, with Bangkok having free WiFi in even the smalest shops and 5G everywhere. But does it make sense to do this in the Bangkok page? Shouldn't this be in the Thailand page?

Blemflarks (talk) 07:55, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Please update as appropriate. Anything that's generally true in Thailand should go in the Thailand article, and anything specific to Bangkok should go there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:43, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I doubt all Thailand has 5G coverage, so at least some of it should go here. –LPfi (talk) 14:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Update Maps?

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Can someone update the maps here and in the subpages? For example, I understand that the blue line has extended beyond Hua Lamphong. Unkx80 (talk) 18:50, 18 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

If you are able to update them, please go ahead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

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