Talk:Chinese Taipei

This redirect was previously deleted. See deletion log. Since anyone can just type "Taipei", why is it needed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Because at the Olympics, they don't use Taiwan. But I'm planning to put this up for vfd in 16 days time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:19, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

More relevantly, see Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion/April 2021#Taiwan redirects. User:Nelson Ricardo 2500, your thoughts, please. And maybe I should copy the deletion discussion here. I'll do that, and we can then keep this talk page if we redelete the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:19, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I could take or leave this redirect, but SHB2000, it's improper to unilaterally recreate a redirect that was already deleted by consensus. User:Nelson Ricardo 2500 didn't know that it had been deleted, but you did. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:24, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe that the impetus for deletion was based on who the original creator of the was. Had it been anybody else, would it even have been up for VFD? btw, there's an Olympics (summer or winter) every two years, not to mention other international sporting competitions. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 07:25, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Read the discussion below, please. The reason for deletion was not the user who created the redirect. And I can't see referring this to Vfd again. The consensus was to delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:26, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

While OP is looking like they're going to get topic banned from redirects, Soumya-8974 wasn't a problematic user back then. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:32, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

So Nelson Ricardo 2500, I'm deleting this because of the vfd deletion a while back. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:11, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe the circumstances have changed. How likely would it be to get nominated for deletion if it were created from scratch today without the prior baggage? Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

The procedure would be to start a thread at WV:Votes for undeletion, not to recreate the article unilaterally. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:36, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

By the time we start now, the olympics would be over so not worth it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:40, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

As problematic as the Olympics are, I don't think this will be the last time they're held, so it's never too late to have a discussion. For the record, as I said, I could take or leave this redirect. My objection to its recreation under these circumstances is procedural. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:39, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

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@SHB2000: Your deletion comment states "Unlikely search term. It's obvious that Chinese Taipei refers to Taiwan and by consensus, it was deleted in April." I will not dispute that a consensus was reached in April. However, how did you determine that this is an "Unlikely search term"? Also to whom is it "obvious that Chinese Taipei refers to Taiwan"? I greatly doubt that a large proportion of the population actually knows this. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I made that comment based on the vfd deletion nom. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Got it. Consensus based on faulty assumptions. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:12, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

This redirect was deleted on 2 April 2021. The following is the deletion discussion, copied from Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion/April 2021#Taiwan redirects. Chinese Taipei is discussed starting in the middle of the thread:

Taiwan redirects

This is a bulk nomination of Taiwan, China, Taiwan Province, China, and Taiwan Province, recently created by User:Soumya-8974. They don't have a navigational purpose, as there's no use case to have any of the three in articles rather than just Taiwan, and in the search box "Taiwan" would pop up before you had time to write the three in full. It'd be one thing if they were useless but harmless, but they're also politically contentious endorsements of one side in a geopolitical dispute, which pushes them from neutral to a possible net negative. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 01:08, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Delete all three per nom. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:15, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. LPfi (talk) 06:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Keep – People who believe Taiwan is a part of China will probably search for "Taiwan, China" or "Taiwan Province" for the country. We generally don't delete redirects, because they aid searches. --Soumya-8974 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:29, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Don't you understand that they'll type "Taiwan" first, thereby finding the article? Besides, no other province of China has a redirect from, e.g., "Guangzhou, China" - and please don't create such unnecessary redirects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:35, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Delete.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:20, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Speedy delete, not even worth discussion. Pashley (talk) 09:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

User:The dog2, any comment? Pashley (talk) 11:00, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Delete" per User:Vaticidalprophet. "Taiwan" is a very likely search term, and users will have no trouble finding the article. Ground Zero (talk) 12:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per other comments above. --Ypsilon (talk) 12:19, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete The dog2 (talk) 13:40, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment Soumya just created another similar redirect, Chinese Taipei, which given this discussion is ongoing I've deleted. Should these others be speedy deleted?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd say speedy delete. "Chinese Taipei" is not a term that is used in daily conversations. Even to people opposed to Taiwan independence, "Taiwan" is still the name of the island. Even mainland Chinese will use the term "Taiwan" to refer to the island, an you're not going to offend anyone by saying that you went to "Taiwan". Mx. Granger can probably back me up on this since he lived in China for a bit. The dog2 (talk) 15:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Keep (or rather recreate) Chinese Taipei, which is a plausible search term for someone who, say, saw them competing in the Olympics. I agree with The dog2 that "Chinese Taipei" is not used in ordinary conversation, but I still think that redirect is useful for someone who may not be familiar with the term. Neutral on the others, which strike me as harmless redirects but also not very likely search terms. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:13, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
  • A search on "Chinese Taipei" leads the reader to Taipei. The reader can easily find their way from there. I do not believe that someone who is watching the Olympics and has never heard of Taiwan or Chinese Taipei would be seized by the urge to travel to this mysterious country on the basis of seeing its athletes performing. Wikivoyage is not an encyclopedia or a dictionary. Our readers will be people looking for a travel guide for Taiwan, and will be familiar with its common name. Creating links for search terms that travel guide readers won't search on is a waste of time. Ground Zero (talk) 18:40, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• I thought "Chinese-Taipei" was hyphenated at the Olympics? Anyway, I'm neutral on whether to delete that search term or not, but I'd just observe that sometimes, the best redirect is really the one that wasn't created. We should have redirects for likely search terms, but there's no need to try to be exhaustive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete User:Ikan Kekek is right, someone will probably find Taiwan itself first. SHB2000 (talk) 06:37, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: In any case, in common speech, "Taipei" is always used to refer only to the city, and not to Taiwan as a whole. The dog2 (talk) 15:49, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Outcome: deleted. Pashley (talk) 03:22, 16 April 2021 (UTC)