Talk:East Asia
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See section too long?
I noticed there were a lot of line items in the 'See' section.
The template for regions doesn't give any guidance. I guess this is because Region can be used for both large areas (East Asia) and smaller areas (Texas), Can we cut this down a bit? I don't think China and Japan should have so many. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- What do you think the top sights are in East Asia? Playing Pachinko is not a sight, but Mt. Fuji probably should be there and isn't. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:01, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Personally I think See sections in anything above countries (and why not countries too?) should be written in running text rather than bulleted points. That way we can mention more sights and it's also visually more pleasant. Have a look at South America#See. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:35, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- I do agree on that style point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
"Cities" and "Other destinations" aren't arrenged alphabetically
The sections "Cities" and "Other destinations" should be arranged alphabetically. --Soumya-8974 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:24, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- If you have the time, go ahead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:31, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Yungang Grottoes
Yungang Grottoes is currently a redirect to Datong City. Therefore, we should replace it with any other notable destination in East Asia. I recommend either DMZ (Korea) or Hainan. --Soumya-8974 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:21, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
- The DMZ is already represented by Panmunjeom, I'd go for Hainan. The unusual-looking hills around Guilin would be another possible replacement. --Ypsilon (talk) 15:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
- Needs to be locally uploaded. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
- I don't see it in any of the 3 en.voy articles it's said to be in. The list is:
- If it's not visible anywhere, we don't need to upload it locally. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Hong Kong identity
Do we really need to go into details about Hong Kong (and Taiwan):
- The Chinese are Chinese, the Japanese are Japanese and the Koreans are Korean. [...] On the other hand, despite their Chinese heritage, many Hongkongers and Taiwanese, especially the youth, reject the "Chinese" identity and instead consider themselves to be a separate people, often emphasising their British and Japanese colonial heritage respectively instead.
There are certainly other groups whose relations to the majority of their country and their ethnic mates abroad is complicated. I think the last sentence in the quoted paragraph can be left to the respective country articles. If needed we can say that not everybody with Chinese heritage identify as Chinese, but I think that's more a thing for Respect: don't assume people have a straight-forward relation to their country or to related ethnicities.
–LPfi (talk) 19:06, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- There are many ethnic Korean Chinese, and Chinese and Koreans are (or at least if they aren't, which I think they are, until recently were) the largest minorities in Japan and don't always have an easy time becoming citizens even if they are 3rd-generation Japanese-born people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:47, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- The opening of the paragraph was softened by sentences I left out in my quote, as that was not what I tried to discuss. But yes, we might want to add something about such non-straight-forwardness – keeping it general. –LPfi (talk) 20:19, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think we can remove everything after "emphasise the unique aspects of their cultures." The claims about Hong Kong and Taiwan strike me as questionable generalizations (Hongkongers and Taiwanese vary in how they identify), and in any case it's an unnecessary level of detail for this article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:58, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- The opening of the paragraph was softened by sentences I left out in my quote, as that was not what I tried to discuss. But yes, we might want to add something about such non-straight-forwardness – keeping it general. –LPfi (talk) 20:19, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- I agree. We should add other things to Respect. I think the level of formality and respect for elderly and authorities may be something to point out for people like me, from the Nordic countries. There may also be things about eating habits (I've understood there are things you should and shouldn't do with your chop sticks), and certainly some other things to watch out for. Details can go elsewhere, but easy ways to commit a faux-pas should be pointed out unless they are very local. –LPfi (talk) 11:26, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's true that there are many Hongkongers and Taiwanese identify as Chinese, and that was the majority until well into the 1990s. But today, the young people overwhelmingly reject the "Chinese" identity and desire independence from China. Those who still have a sense of Chinese identity are mostly middled aged to elderly. Like I mentioned, when Japan defeated China for the gold in the table tennis mixed doubles at the Olympics, the Taiwanese were celebrating wildly and writing things like "thank you Japan for defeating those vile Chinese for us". It is an undisputed fact that the young Taiwanese identify more with Japan than with China, even though their ancestors may have come from China, and they speak dialects of Chinese rather than Japanese. And for Americans here, there are so many Taiwanese living in the U.S. Just go to any prestigious university and ask the Taiwanese students. There are of course exceptions but they overwhelmingly vehemently reject any notion of being "Chinese", and are very adamant that they are Taiwanese and Taiwanese only. Likewise, just talking to the Hongkongers living in the West. They wave British flags and sing the British national anthems, and identify more with Britain than China. And yes, there are a minority who identify as Chinese, but the Hongkongers studying in British and American universities overwhelmingly desire independence from China, and feel offended when people address them in Mandarin. When some of the got assaulted by racists because of COVID, their response was usually "Why are you targeting me. I'm not Chinese. I'm a Hongkonger.". And just look at the Twitter feed of Frances Hui. She actually mentioned that she was offended that "Hongkonger" is not listed as an ethnicity in forms asking for demographic information, and she emphatically does not want to identify as "Chinese".
- And yes, there is a complication regarding the ethnic Koreans from China. They are in fact heavily discriminated against in South Korea, and South Koreans often refer to them as the "penis race". The South Koreans are still very outraged about China nominating the Goguryeo tombs are world heritage sites, because they consider that to be Korean history, and are of the view that China has no right to claim it as part of their history. Also, there was a dispute because China registered Sichuan-style preserved vegetables (pao cai) with the ISO, but because the Chinese word "pao cai" is also used to refer to kimchi (Chinese people know that they are not the same thing, though China also claims kimchi as a traditional dish of their ethnic Korean minority), South Koreans see that as an appropriation of Korean culture and are still deeply angered by it. In addition, there is still deep anger in South Korea about the fact that an ethnic Korean from China wore a hanbok at the opening ceremony of the recent Winter Olympics, because in the South Korean view, hanbok is a Korean and not a Chinese outfit and China has no right to claim it (although South Koreans will on the other sense feel a deep sense of pride when a Korean-American wears a hanbok). So in short, South Koreans also have a deep aversion to any kind of association with China, and they are fiercely protective of Korean people's status as a separate people from the Chinese. While in the U.S. it's common to refer to all these people as part of one "Asian" race, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans most certainly do not consider themsleves to be the same race, and to suggest that they are the same race is certainly offensive here. The dog2 (talk) 18:55, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- It would seem a lot of people fail to understand the difference between race and ethnicity. STW932 (talk) 15:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- In the first place, these things are social constructs. Although ancestry is a biological variable. The dog2 (talk) 17:13, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- It would seem a lot of people fail to understand the difference between race and ethnicity. STW932 (talk) 15:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- And yes, there is a complication regarding the ethnic Koreans from China. They are in fact heavily discriminated against in South Korea, and South Koreans often refer to them as the "penis race". The South Koreans are still very outraged about China nominating the Goguryeo tombs are world heritage sites, because they consider that to be Korean history, and are of the view that China has no right to claim it as part of their history. Also, there was a dispute because China registered Sichuan-style preserved vegetables (pao cai) with the ISO, but because the Chinese word "pao cai" is also used to refer to kimchi (Chinese people know that they are not the same thing, though China also claims kimchi as a traditional dish of their ethnic Korean minority), South Koreans see that as an appropriation of Korean culture and are still deeply angered by it. In addition, there is still deep anger in South Korea about the fact that an ethnic Korean from China wore a hanbok at the opening ceremony of the recent Winter Olympics, because in the South Korean view, hanbok is a Korean and not a Chinese outfit and China has no right to claim it (although South Koreans will on the other sense feel a deep sense of pride when a Korean-American wears a hanbok). So in short, South Koreans also have a deep aversion to any kind of association with China, and they are fiercely protective of Korean people's status as a separate people from the Chinese. While in the U.S. it's common to refer to all these people as part of one "Asian" race, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans most certainly do not consider themsleves to be the same race, and to suggest that they are the same race is certainly offensive here. The dog2 (talk) 18:55, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Not a soapbox
Recent edits gave shown that it is time for The dog2 to stop using this article, and Wikivoyage generally, as a soapbox for their opinions, especially given their history of adding statements that are false. If The dog2 is not willing to focus on travel content, they should find another forum for their opinions on culture, politics, and history. Ground Zero (talk) 10:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC)