Talk:Madrid

See also: Talk:Madrid/Archive

Districtification

I know this guide still doesn't have an overflow of entries, but my experience of Madrid is that you cannot get to know it as a whole. I am thinking carving out Centro, Retiro, Salamanca and then North, South, East and West could be a start. What do you think? PrinceGloria (talk) 13:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I won't be able to help much because I haven't visited Madrid since 1977, but it sure sounds reasonable to me to district Madrid. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:12, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Centro did not change much since 1977. They've only got a new king ;) PrinceGloria (talk) 23:13, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

So, se have Madrid/Centro, Madrid/Retiro, and Madrid/Salamanca. Madrid/Moncloa-Aravaca describes the western parts, and the rest can be divided into Madrid/North (including Ciudad Lineal, San Blas and everything north) and Madrid/South. /Yvwv (talk) 01:46, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I have only ever been to Madrid during a roughly eight hour layover and the time outside the airport that allows. I am afraid, I won't be able to help much, either. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, with two visits to Madrid in the first decade of the 2000s, I could perhaps help out a little bit, though I'm mostly familiar with Centro. Your division seems to be OK, provided that all articles would get a couple of POIs. How far would the North and South articles stretch? Until the borders of Area Metropolitana? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:44, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I can help out a bit as well, although I've spent only a grand total of five days there, most of it also in the Centro, so I can't really offer an informed opinion regarding where to draw district boundaries. –StellarD (talk) 15:43, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I think Yvwv's proposal above sounds great. I got to spend a few days in Madrid back in 2012, and based on what I saw breaking it down between Centro, Retiro, Salamanca, West (Moncloa-Aravaca), North, and South makes sense. Centro and Retiro have the lion's share of attractions, naturally, but there's enough stuff scattered through the rest of those districts that we shouldn't wind up with any completely empty districts under that layout. PerryPlanet (talk) 02:59, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

The scope of Madrid/North and Madrid/South would be within the administrative borders of Madrid. This would, for instance, exclude Madrid-Barajas Airport. /Yvwv (talk) 13:14, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Districts of Madrid

We might consider having an article for the airport itself. It's a major hub for flights to half of Latin America. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

There is one already. ;) ϒpsilon (talk) 16:01, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Foiled again by an unredirected redlink! Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:14, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Any progress?

Soooo, is there any progress to be reported? @StellarD: maybe you'd want to weigh in? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

The proposed districts seem reasonable to me. It will be easier to proceed once all listings are geotagged and placed on the map. –StellarD (talk) 08:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

@PrinceGloria:, @Yvwv:, @Ypsilon:, @PerryPlanet:, what's keeping us from implementing it, then? At the very least creating a rough draft of a map and the likes? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:16, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

With regard to me - my decision not to contribute to WV until the image policy is amended, which seems most unlikely. Thanks for the honorable mention. PrinceGloria (talk) 18:21, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

What to do about the already created two outlines?

Someone apparently created Madrid/Centro and Madrid/Retiro some months ago. Should we already move listings there while we figure out where to draw the boundaries of other districts or should they for now be redirected to the Madrid page? Are they good districts to have to begin with? Oh and pinging @StellarD: in particular. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:58, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I've been working on geotagging listings so that we can eventually move this forward. However I'm currently traveling in the US for a month, so it will take a little while until I get everything mapped. If you'd like to start moving relevant geotagged listings to the two aforementioned articles, please feel free :) –StellarD (talk) 20:09, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Oh, happy travels then. I am afraid I don't know where the borders of the district articles are supposed to be. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:53, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Reviving the discussion

Can we please get any kind of resolution on this? User:StellarD seems to be back from his travels, but it would perhaps be easier if some other user(s) could jump in and help? With geotags for many listings it shouldn't be that hard to move them to districts, right? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

New proposal, after having visited Madrid last month (not claiming to be an expert, though). I admit that my idea of districtification is a bit influenced by Lonely Planet's (and also by the one used at Madrid's official website for tourists), but it is not a one-to-one copy and a bit simplified and focused on the neighbourhoods with most sights and points of interests from a traveller's perspective:

• Madrid/Huertas and Sol: the centre of centre, including Puerta del Sol, Cortes, Barrio de las Letras, Gran Vía from Cibeles to Plaza España
• Madrid/La Latina and Austrias: old town with its narrow lanes plus the quarter around Royal Palace and Plaza Mayor
• Madrid/Malasaña and Chueca: including neighbouring Conde Duque for sake of simplicity – lots of restaurants and nightlife
• Madrid/Lavapiés – or merge into Huertas and Sol, as there are not yet many listings right now (there should be more, though)
• Madrid/Retiro and Paseo del Arte: including Parque de El Retiro and the museum strip (or "Museum Triangle") from Prado via Thyssen to Caixaforum and Reina Sofia (convenient for readers to have most art-related contents in one article)
• Madrid/Salamanca: whole district – upscale shopping, restaurants and hotels
• Madrid/Chamberí: whole district – not many listings right now, but interesting enough and may be further developed in the future
• Madrid/Moncloa: whole district of Moncloa-Aravaca, including Argüelles, Ciudad Universitaria, Parque del Oeste, Casa de Campo
• Madrid/Arganzuela: the whole district – getting increasingly interesting for travellers thanks to the Madrid Río and Matadero projects
• Madrid/Outer districts: everything else, given that there are few points of interest for travellers, anyway – an alternative might be to put everything north of the centre into the "Chamberí" article, everything west into "Moncloa", everything east into "Salamanca" and everything south into "Arganzuela". This may be inaccurate but pretty handy.

I do not think that Madrid/Centro makes much sense, as almost everything that is relevant for tourists is in Centro, and the Centro article would become nearly as long as the Madrid article is now, while most other district articles would be almost empty. --RJFF (talk) 20:58, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Personally I think subdividing the Centro at this stage is premature and overcomplicates things; we can further subdivide Madrid/Centro later if there is a consensus that it is warranted. And it is not really unusual to have such dense central districts – see for examples Vienna/Innere Stadt and Berlin/Mitte.

I do believe it will be easier to migrate listings to newly-created districts after everything is geotagged and not before. Hobbitschuster, if the slow progress upsets you so much why do you not roll up your sleeves and help out? I myself am not located in Madrid and do not personally know the city all that well. My tools are Google maps, Wikivoyage geomap, and es.Wikipedia, which anyone can use.

And why is the gender of any Wikivoyager assumed to be male by default? ;) –StellarD (talk) 06:11, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Vienna's Innere Stadt is considerably smaller than Madrid's Centro; while Berlin is a somewhat different case, given that it is a multi-centric city created by the merger of several towns and cities each whith its own core (hence the saying that "Berlin is not a city, but a collection of villages"), plus it was divided for 40 years. Therefore touristic points of interest are spread over more parts of the city (I do not like WV-en's districtification of Berlin anyway). Madrid on the other hand is, according to my impression, very centralistic with almost all things of interest for travellers concentrated in Centro and adjacent districts. Just look at the dynamic map: about 80 % of listings are in Centro! This is because Madrid used to be restricted to today's Centro district until the 19th century and most other districts are just bedroom suburbs created during the 20th century, with few reasons for visitors to go there. --RJFF (talk) 11:25, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

One more comparison: The 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th arrondissement of Paris combined are about the size of Madrid's Centro, and we have four separate articles on them. I find it reasonable to divide Centro into 3–4 articles, too. --RJFF (talk) 13:03, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Centro

RJFF, OK you've convinced me that Centro should be divided up, especially as you seem to know Madrid better than I do. I'm not entirely in agreement with your Centro divisions though, as they don't make sense to me when I look at a map. Would it not make more sense to just divide along the traditional barrio boundaries as the city has done? –StellarD (talk) 14:20, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I do not think that the barrios in this map are "traditional". These are pretty arbitrary "barrios" drawn only for administrative reasons, which do not correspond to the traditional neighbourhoods as they are perceived by locals and tourists. Who, except administrators, refers to Universidad rather than Malasaña, Justicia instead of Chueca and Cortes in place of Huertas or Barrio de las Letras? By the way, Wikivoyage's own dynamic map (the one in the map frame) shows the neighbourhood names that I use, too (i.e. Lavapiés, La Latina, Austrias, Malasaña, Chueca), and even Madrid's own tourist website does. --RJFF (talk) 14:32, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Well you seem to know the district, so your proposal sounds good to me especially if you can write up something in the 'Understand' section of each new district article. Unfortunately as it appears there are currently only two people in this discussion who have spent any amount of time in Madrid, we'll have to form a consensus of two, unless someone else stops by who wants to chime in. –StellarD (talk) 15:15, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

OK. Then, we still have to decide: 1. Should Lavapiés have its own article or be included in "Sol and Letras" (it appears that "Barrio de las Letras" is a bit more common than "Huertas" in the tourism context, both denote approximately the same neighbourhood). "Sol, Letras and Lavapiés" looks a bit clumsy to me... and 2. Should there be an article on "Outer districts" for everything even further off than Chamberí, Salamanca, Retiro, Moncloa and Arganzuela or should listings located in these outlying districts simply be included in the nearest district article (i.e. let Chamberí include everything north of it, Salamanca everything east, Moncloa everything west, Arganzuela everything south)? I must admit that I don't know anything about these external districts, I just see that there are only very few listings for them. --RJFF (talk) 15:44, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Another question: How do we move the listings to district articles? Is it OK to simply copy-paste them or would that be a copyright violation? --RJFF (talk) 18:44, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

After some reflection, here are a few thoughts:

1) Currently Lavapiés doesn't seem to have quite enough listings just yet, so perhaps it should be included with 'Sol and Letras', to be broken off in the future when it does have more content. Yes, the name 'Sol, Letras and Lavapiés' is decidedly clumsy; maybe 'Sol-Letras-Lavapiés' might work. Or alternatively what about labeling the central districts something like 'Centro East' and 'Centro West', etc.?

2) Vienna's outer districts (also clumsy) include such titles as 'Inner East' and 'Outer East', etc. Boston has a district titled 'Outer Neighborhoods'. Munich's districts are even more simplified. I realize that these names may be anathema to someone used to working on de.wv, but here on the English side I think we tend to be somewhat less encyclopedic (although I do have my own encyclopedic tendencies).

3) Regarding copyrights, moving content to new articles by cut-paste or copy-paste is no problem at all, as long as no content is lost.

–StellarD (talk) 11:42, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I am in favour of using the names of the traditional neighbourhoods not because they are more encyclopedic, but because they are more recognisable for travellers (they will find these names on customary maps as well as "on the ground", moreover most of these names are linked to a barrio with a certain character) while terms like 'Centro East' and 'Centro West' sound cold and bureaucratic and cannot be found anywhere outside Wikivoyage. I stayed at an apartment in Malasaña and can tell you that there is a very strong local identity and "flavour", they even sell Malasaña merchandise, Malasaña beer etc. No one would speak of 'Centro North'! The same probably applies to Chueca, Lavapiés etc. Madrid/Sol-Letras-Lavapiés looks handy enough to me, though. --RJFF (talk) 17:58, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

OK then, how does the following line-up look to you?

Madrid/Sol-Letras-Lavapiés

Madrid/La Latina-Austrias

Madrid/Malasaña-Chueca

Madrid/Retiro-Paseo del Arte

Madrid/Salamanca – including stray listings to the east

Madrid/Chamberí – including everything north

Madrid/Moncloa – including every west

Madrid/Arganzuela – including everything south

–StellarD (talk) 08:37, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Very well. I have started with copying listings to Madrid/Sol-Letras-Lavapiés. Please have a look if you like. For now, I have not yet deleted the duplicate listings from the main article, because after we are done with distrification, the main article should still contain a list of top sights and some general remarks in each of the sections, like where to find certain shopping opportunities, this or that category of restaurants, this or that type of club, bar etc. --RJFF (talk) 10:56, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

I am done with creating the district articles and moving the respective listings there. Now we should condense and trim the Madrid article. I could need some help with the decision which listings are important enough for the whole city to stay in this article (perhaps with a shortened description) and wording some generic information, e.g. in which districts this or that type of restaurant, nightlife venue or hotel can be found. --RJFF (talk) 17:42, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you RJFF for jumping in and taking on this task single-handedly. At a glance the district articles all look great. I can help with the main Madrid article, but it will have to wait a bit as I'll be off-wiki and traveling for the next week and a half. –StellarD (talk) 07:47, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Dynamic Map

Good day, PrinceGloria, Ikan Kekek, Yvwv, Hobbitschuster, StellarD and RJFF. I have set up a dynamic district map taking the input from the discussion above into account. A few comments:

• I added Northern Suburbs and Southern Suburbs article to the city. Listings still have to be moved over from Arganzuela and Chamberí and Castellana.
• What I personally don't like with the current districts is, that some prime tourist attractions - namely the Parque del Oeste with Templo de Debod are covered in this huge district Moncloa. I guess it would be nicer to either have another central district or add this locality to Malasana or La Latina. Then we could separate the District chapter nicely into Central Districts and Outer Districts just like in Beijing for example.--Renek78 (talk) 19:46, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your work! I don't know Madrid nearly well enough to offer any substantive opinions about these districts, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much – this is a huge help! I've been following others' progress with dynamic district maps and had made an attempt in my sandbox, but technically it was really over my head.

Regarding the current districts I don't really feel qualified to offer any more guidance than before, especially as I've spent only 5 days total in the city. (That may change though after my next trip this fall.) Maybe RJFF has a stronger opinion? –StellarD (talk) 21:43, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello @Renek78: Thanks a lot for your addition of a dynamic map of districts. I actually had wished for a district map, but was not able to produce one myself.

However, I am not 100 % happy with the tailoring of districts done by you. As I tried to make clear on this talk page as well as in the introductions to Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana and Madrid/Arganzuela, I intended these articles to include Chamberí, Castellana and other northern districts (or suburbs, as you call them), respectively Arganzuela and other southern districts. So these articles deliberately include a few listings outside Chamberí-Castellana or Arganzuela proper. Likewise, I imagined Madrid/Salamanca and Madrid/Retiro-Paseo del Arte to include the districts to their east. The reason for this is merely pragmatic: There are barely any points of touristic interest in the northern and southern suburbs as defined by you, so I do not see the necessity for creating separate articles, instead covering them in the articles of the nearest district that is more relevant to travellers. I took the inspiration for this approach from the districts of Bangkok where e.g. Bangkok/Ramkhamhaeng covers much more than the actual Ramkhamhaeng area but rather serves as a blanket name for all of the less-known eastern districts. To be completely exact, we could rename these articles to Madrid/North and Madrid/South, but I thought they were easier to find via search engines and get more pageviews if they are named after relatively well-known districts instead of generic points of the compass.

Regarding the extent of Moncloa, I have also seen the problem of including Plaza de España and the Templo de Debod (which, perceivedly, are still part of, or very close to, the city centre) in this article. But I do not see a convincing alternative, as they definitely do not belong with Malasaña or La Latina.

Moreover, I would propose to use a slightly different colour scheme as e.g. the shades of green used for Retiro–Paseo del Arte, Moncloa, and the Southern Suburbs are too similar in my view.

Please excuse my nitpicking, all in all I am very thankful for your work. --RJFF (talk) 15:25, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi RJFF! Sorry for this very late reply.

• Do you want me to include Southern Suburbs to Madrid/Arganzuela and Northern Suburbs to Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana? But then the naming would be a bit misleading, if they cover much larger parts of the city than just those 2 districts.
• I increase the area of Madrid/Retiro-Paseo_del_Arte to the west, so that the museums are covered in this article?
• I will update the color scheme. Some proposals are appreciated.

--Renek78 (talk) 20:16, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

@Renek78:

ad 1. My idea was to include points of interest in outlying, rarely visited areas in the article on the nearest well-known district. So Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana would cover the whole north (Chamartín, Tetuán, Fuencarral-El Pardo; northern parts of Ciudad Lineal, Hortaleza and Barajas), Madrid/Salamanca northeast (San Blas; the remaining parts of Ciudad Lineal, Hortaleza and Barajas), Madrid/Retiro-Paseo del Arte southeast (Moratalaz, Vicálvaro; northern parts of Puente de Vallecas), Madrid/Arganzuela south (Carabanchel, Usera, Villaverde, Villa de Vallecas; parts of Latina and Puente de Vallecas) and Madrid/Moncloa west (remaining parts of Latina). The articles Madrid/Southern Suburbs and Madrid/Northern Suburbs would be unnecessary. According to my proposal, the article titles should be understood in a "pars pro toto" way, not in an exact or exclusive one. I don't find this misleading, but justified, as the vast majority of points of interests in each article is concentrated in the respective eponymous areas, while only a few scattered POIs would be outside of them. After all, we are writing a travel guide, not an encyclopedia, so a focus on tourist-relevant areas is expedient. I think the guidelines at WV:Geographical hierarchy support this approach: it fits the 7 ± 2 rule; "avoid creating a separate district article until we have enough content for it" (there would not be enough content for separate articles on the Northern and Southern suburbs) and "The legal divisions in the geography of the world (...) don't necessarily make for reasonable travel divisions", so we may make up districts along a traveler's point of view, ignoring official district borders. Of course, this makes drawing the district map a bit more difficult. For example, I would include the southern portions of Ciudad Lineal and Hortaleza in the Salamanca article, as they are conveniently accessible from Salamanca, but lump the northern parts of these districts with Chamberí-Castellana, as they are closer to the Castellana area. I think, this makes sense from a traveller's perspective, as the administrative limits are irrelevant to them.

ad 2. Yes, that would be great. See the district limits in the Madrid/Retiro-Paseo del Arte article.

ad 3. Good. I don't have any particular ideas, just make sure that the colours of neighbouring districts are easy to distinguish. Thank you! --RJFF (talk) 16:03, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata items for dynamic map

Below is the list with all Wikidata items for the districts of Madrid. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future.--Renek78 (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Madrid districts

Name	Number	Wikidata-ID
Arganzuela	2	Q2000929
Barajas	21	Q807230
Carabanchel	11	Q1001991
Centro	1	Q1763376
Chamartín	5	Q1766348
Chamberí	7	Q1763370
Ciudad Lineal	15	Q1763694
Fuencarral	8	Q1059853
Hortaleza	16	Q1928529
Latina	10	Q794954
Moncloa-Aravaca	9	Q2017682
Moratalaz	14	Q2076109
Puente de Vallecas	13	Q2003054
Retiro	3	Q2002296
Salamanca	4	Q1773521
San Blas	20	Q2001937
Tetuán	6	Q1773540
Usera	12	Q953368
Vicálvaro	19	Q589403
Villa de Vallecas	18	Q1947988
Villaverde	17	Q919536

Finishing the districts

Since the listings got de-synced pretty quickly fromt he ones in the districts, I resynced those again and moved them. However, the "See" and "Do" sections may need some more love. Please plunge forward, whoever wants... -- andree.sk(talk) 19:49, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

wouldn't finishing also imply doing something about the redlinks? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:07, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

which ones? -- andree.sk(talk) 05:57, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought the northern or southern suburbs were still a redlink... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:42, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

@Andree.sk, Hobbitschuster: I am not sure if you overlooked my arguments against the creation of the Northern/Southern suburb articles, or noted but rejected them. My concept of distrification was to place the suburbs (that have very little points of interest for travelers) with the respective nearest better-known district: Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana would include everything to its north, Madrid/Salamanca to the northeast, Madrid/Retiro-Paseo del Arte to the east, Madrid/Arganzuela to the south and Madrid/Moncloa covers the whole west anyway. The names of the district articles should be understood in a pars-pro-toto way, not in their strict, administrative sense. I do not see the point of having seperate articles that only cover dull residential suburbs with, if any, a handfull of scattered points of touristic interest. Moreover, it is misleading to mention the Santiago Bernabeu stadium in the description of "Northern Suburbs" when it is located on the Paseo de la Castellana and therefore covered in the Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana article. --RJFF (talk) 10:12, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Please note that the listings in Madrid/Northern Suburbs are mostly redundant with those in Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana. --RJFF (talk) 10:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

@RJFF:: As I wrote, the problem was that the work was started and then left untouched for > 1 year. In the meantime, it became a huge mess of what is up-to-date, and duplicated between main article and the sub-articles. TBH, I didn't cross-check between the sub-articles for duplicates - and mainly, Madrid/Chamberí-Castellana wasn't shown in the Madrid region overview map, so I probably simply overlooked it. I don't object merging/removing Northern Suburbs or whatever, but obviously I'm not that knowledgeable about the city to go and fix/merge/move around the districts. So please, do as you see fit. I can try to help you, if you have a clear idea what to do, and especially where the borders should be. IMO the borders should be clearly defined, otherwise it's hard to navigate the map to search for POIs.... But, for example I couldn't find a better place for 'Museo Nacional de Ciencia y Tecnología', even though strictly speaking it's outside the official borders of the region... -- andree.sk(talk) 11:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether I said it before, but I'll say it now: I do not particularly care what the exact district layout is as long as it contains neither overlaps nor redlinks and as long as it is clear, where which district begins and ends... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:45, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

District descriptions

The district descriptions are really long. They should give a brief description, and not get into details. Wikivoyage:Article_skeleton_templates/Sections says:

"You should list the districts here, as well as a short blurb (per One-liner listings) about the district that lets readers know what is most relevant about the district for travel, what neighborhoods constitute the district, etc. "

Does anyone want to try to cut these down? Ground Zero (talk) 05:37, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

@RJFF: might know something... I think we should leave the decision what is "useless clutter" to those who actually know the city (I've been there for a week recently) Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:21, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Language schools

Hello @Ground Zero: According to WV:Huge city article template, language schools should be listed in the main article on the city; a "learn" section is not included in the WV:District article template. In my opinion, this makes sense: Unlike sights, restaurants and the like, there are usually just a few language schools per city; and you don't go there just once as part of a sight-seeing walk, but typically attend the school regularly during your stay. --RJFF (talk) 18:11, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

The language in WV:Huge city article template is ambiguous but does not say to use listing templates. It says to cover language schools. So as in other sections, highlights can be mentioned, with links to the district articles where full listings are given. There is absolutely nothing preventing "Learn" from being optionally added to district articles, although it's not part of the template, and even if not, "learn" listings could be put in a separate section of "Do". Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:12, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Ikan Kekek that there isn't a clear policy here. The language schools section was expanding and taking up a big chunk of the Madrid article although it would be if interest to only a few people. A summary in the city article and listings in the district articles addresses this problem. Are there other ways of dealing with it? Ground Zero (talk) 07:20, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

New banner

Current banner

Banner 2

Banner 3

Banner 4

Banner 4a (alternative crop)

Banner 5

The current banner is quite dull and generic. I am proposing a new one. Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 16:06, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I prefer the current banner to the new proposal, but weakly. The second seems to be overly wreathed in shadows, but the first is, as you say, quite generic. I might go looking through Commons to see if there's anything better to make something out of. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 16:09, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

The second looks better to me.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:12, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I prefer the second as well. Added banners 3 to 5 to choose from as well. --Renek78 (talk) 20:02, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I prefer banner 2, then 3. Banner 4 would be a lot nicer if it were possible not to crop the top like that (nor crop the bottom further than it is currently cropped). Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the new options. My preference is also 2, 3, 4. Ground Zero (talk) 21:52, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I just went ahead and changed the page banner to banner 2. Furthermore added a new version of banner 4 - cropped at a bit higher. Would be nicer to get the whole structure in the pic though.--Renek78 (talk) 22:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. 4a and 4 are on about the same level to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:43, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Destination of the Month?

Spain is under-featured. Could this article make Destination of the Month? Or is something missing? /Yvwv (talk) 19:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)