Wikivoyage talk:Social media/Archive 2013-14

Facebook page

Swept in from the pub

Facebook is a major marketing tool, and I think we need to sort out how we are going to utilise it. When we were at WT, the admins there did a good job of making regular posts. But now things seem to have dropped off. These are the most prominent FB pages we have:

• wikivoyage [1], 293 fans, occasional posts (would be interested to know who runs this)
• Wikivoyage [2], 434 fans, no posts, created automatically using Wikipedia article
• Wikivoyage - deutsch [3], 271 fans, regular German posts, has the main fb.com/Wikivoyage domain

Firstly, we should merge the first two pages to increase the number of fans and not have an identity crisis. The process appears to be explained here. Then a few admins/trusted users who are interested should be assigned page admin rights, and allowed to make posts on relevant items. I would call relevant items new DotMs, OtbPs and FTTs, new Star articles, huge new features (listing editor, reviews site, OSM maps, book creator, etc) and possibly travel warnings. Page admins should never comment on other pages or status updates to keep neutrality. After that, we could request that the German page hand over the main URL, and give fb.com/wikivoyage.de in return. Other WMF pages keep the main URL for English. It may be worth creating a new policy page outlining the rules.

Thoughts on this plan? JamesA ^>talk 05:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

It has my full support. And, I was under the impression that the WMF operated the first of the three fanpages, though I don't know that for sure. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I highly doubt that the WMF operate it. They would've gave it direct to the community as they don't like getting involved in that sort of stuff. Also, the soccer posts when the page was first opened and the patchy English in response to some fans' wall posts again make me think it can't be someone official at the WMF. If I remember correctly, it may have been User:Saqib, actually. JamesA ^>talk 05:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Support - A central Facebook page sounds like a great idea and one that would really help attract new editors and users. Perhaps it could also be used for 'travel games' - e.g. where is this photo or where can we find X? If we asked users to post the URL of the article that referenced it we'd see greater footfall and keep people interested. --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 19:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

To address User:JamesA's comment: if it wasn't operated by, on behalf of, or with the blessing of the WMF, whoever did run it had an awful lot of nerve naming the page "Wikivoyage.official". -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:30, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The Wikitravel Page on Facebook was established and run by me. I did my best to post new DoTMs, OtBPs, and Star articles as they happened, and we got up over 1,000 likes. LtPowers (talk) 19:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

It would certainly be great to have an official Facebook page in English. However, with regards to users keeping it updated, how about creating a specific policy for social media altogether. There is also twitter.com/Wikivoyage & Wikivoyage page on Google+ which appear to be operated by German WV. How about creating Wikivoyage:Social media, where we can create a policy regarding use of such accounts (appropriate posts, frequency of posts, who can have access to it, etc) and also the possibility of integrating social media into Wikivoyage content. A couple notes about creating official WV social media accounts: use of the WV logo is governed by WMF wmf:Trademark policy and in order to create a page on sites, the person creating the page would need authority/authorization to do so...part of Wikivoyage:Social media would need to address who can create an account on behalf of WV, transfer of ownership (once created, what Wikivoyager will keep track of login info to all accounts), & who can contact social media companies on behalf of WV in the event of any dispute over ownership of an account (since it seems like WMF leaves these kinds of things to the communities). Remember that as a wiki, such accounts should be as open as possible (ie. we need explicit policies regarding use). WMF has m:Social media, which is worth looking at, but there's no set policies regarding accounts for different projects (other than WMF & Wikipedia). AHeneen (talk) 00:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I very much like your ideas. I've gone ahead and created Wikivoyage:Social media so we have something to go by as the discussion continues. It can be deleted later if decided against. I guess something we would want to consider is whether we want strict rules regarding frequency of posts, content of posts, etc? I've co-managed a Facebook page for another wiki before, and we had few rules, other than sign your posts and use common sense. That page was created 3 years ago and now has over a thousand fans too. We can always have guidelines regarding how many posts per week, and some things that users may find interesting.

As you've said, we would need to contact the WMF to get a one-time authorisation. The Wikidata community already runs a few social media pages, including Facebook, so it shouldn't be that difficult. We should probably assign one long-time administrator or 'crat to a role of leadership for the first month, while we sort out logo/TM issues, who will be a page admin and the merging of the various pages/URLs. JamesA ^>talk 02:50, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to re-awaken this discussion, but are we any closer to securing WV's various accounts? --Nick (talk) 21:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Status of this proposal?

What's the status of this proposal? I've not heard any updates in some time. As an active Facebook user, I would really like to see Wikivoyage establish a robust social media presence.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Who currently owns the login on facebook? --Inas (talk) 08:26, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I contacted the page administrator of [4] through the official message system on 18 February, asking for him/her to give me page admin rights, but have heard no response. The next step would be to report the page as a violation of trademark (through its use of the WV logo, name and "wikivoyage.official" username) and request that the page is handed over to myself (who can then distribute access to other admins). The issue is that I don't own the trademark; the WMF does, so they would probably have to make the report. And then Facebook may find it's too hard to transfer ownership, and simply shut down the page. Is there some way that Facebook could tell us the name of the owner of the page? JamesA ^>talk 09:46, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

See: m:Wikivoyage/Lounge#Social media. I'm also interested in helping with managing the accounts. AHeneen (talk) 12:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Facebook

Ok, rather than wait on trying to contact anyone, I've gone ahead and created a Facebook page...just need "likes". Regarding the cryptic web address...I have an idea for usurping the "facebook.com/Wikivoyage" address in a friendly way, but don't want to give details to any of IB's prying eyes. As far as the page goes, some notes:

• To be given manager status for the page, send me an email using Special:EmailUser/AHeneen and include the email address associated with your facebook account (because when adding admins, the only field asks for email...not name). Since we don't have a formal policy in place yet, I'll only give access to other WV admins.
• The timeline has been set up with "January 2013" as the launch date. IMO, going further back in time (eg. 2006) means having to explain things that don't need to be explained. This is just the timeline, on the about page & page info, Jan 2013 is the "lauched" date & 2006 is the "founded" date. One implication of this is that nothing can be posted on the timeline prior to Jan 2013...any problem with this.
• Cover image is from the DotM...Canberra. I didn't see any images in the Udupi page that would look as good in landscape orientation. The cover photo could be changed with each new featured page, if there is a good image (in landscape orientation).
• Page content so far is just the DotM, OtBP, & FTT features since January. For some reason, thumbnails to use on postings don't include all images on the linked page...I don't know why. The reason there is no picture for Bali is that Facebook didn't recognize any photos, so I couldn't select a pic to go with it. In lieu of a policy for the page (so anyone who gets added as an admin of the page doesn't go wild), any objections to limiting posts to just featured pages (DotM, OtBP, & FTT) and newly approved Star pages? Any other things to post should be discussed/approved here first before posted.

So, any thoughts/suggestions? And of course, don't forget to "like" us. Could a link be placed in the site notice? AHeneen (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good, and thanks for adding me as an admin. I'll comment on things in more detail in later. I do think admins should have a bit more flexibility than just showcases and star pages, however. Some discretion could be used. Say if it's "World Tourism Day", I think we could make a post about that, encouraging likers to check out Wikivoyage for their next trip. And an example I just found: Wikimedia Australia made a post flaunting Canberra as our Destination of the Month. I think it'd be appropriate to comment something like "Thanks for the share! Our contributors have put a lot of effort into preparing the Canberra article for the city's centenary, so feel free to check it out." Does that sound appropriate? I think if we think things through a number of times before posting/commenting, and use common sense, it should be okay. And are we requiring that posts/comments should have a signature? (something like -JamesA, or ^JA?) JamesA ^>talk 05:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

A post to the canberra centenary facebook page would probably be in order. --Inas (talk) 11:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Good idea. Those are the kind of posts I think could be useful and attract more likes/exposure. I just posted on the Centenary of Canberra wall, but it may not get many views considering the huge number of posts being made to that wall. I also posted on the Udupi Tourism page. If we keep doing things like this each month, the page owners may even decide to highlight the posts. I might go ahead and use my personal account to send a message to the page, encouraging them to highlight it to help tourists get around. JamesA ^>talk 11:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Liked. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:51, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

When I ran the WT Facebook page I changed the page's 'cover image' monthly to match the DotM. Something you might want to consider. LtPowers (talk) 15:25, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Google Plus

Is there going to be a Google Plus page? Might be common to hear that it's a ghost town, but it actually has a pretty big community focus, especially around travel, photography and tech stuff. I think you'll find that the average Google+ user would fit in much better with Wikivoyage, compared to Facebook, and they'll be more likely to pitch in as well. -- 129.78.233.210 06:00, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not that knowledgeable how Google+ works, not having an account there, but I think you're right; we'd want to expand into as much territory as possible. Our big 3 social media sites would be FB, Twitter and Google+. How do you think we could increase exposure of Wikivoyage through Google+? JamesA ^>talk 06:03, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty much the same as Facebook, but the big differences are in Circles and Communities, with a bit of Twitter mixed in. A page can actively promote in Communities centred around travel, depending on rules of course. Other than that, it will be a little hard to build popularity, although if Wikivoyage gets mentioned by say, Trey Ratcliff, Tom Anderson or even Mike Elgan who are very big travellers, that would pretty much be the jackpot. There is one Wikivoyage page right now, but it's in German. -- 129.78.233.210 06:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't figure out how Google+ functions either...spent an hour or so one day trying to learn what it is about. AHeneen (talk) 08:53, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Pinterest

I think after FB the next priority should be Pinterest. "Wikivoyage" exists as a defaced page. I've got to contact WMF legal so they can contact Pinterest to remove that page and allow me to take over that url name. Seems like a lot of Pinterest users have a board about where they'd like to travel to, so Wikivoyage has lots of potential to attract attention. AHeneen (talk) 08:50, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure how useful this could be, given that it's pretty much a picture-only site and the license is not compatible with ours. I don't think we could share images from commons on there could we? Texugo (talk) 11:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I am not an expert on Pinterest either, so can't help here. Establishing pages on more sites does give more exposure, but we don't want to stretch our resources. According to w:List of social networking websites, Facebook, Twitter and Google+ are the (Western) world's 3 most popular social networks. JamesA ^>talk 11:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Twitter

Swept in from the pub

We now have a Twitter account which you can find here. Any follows (yay!), ideas or comments would be very welcome! --Nick ^talk 19:41, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Great, logo needs to be changed and btw, why no tweets in English? happy tweeting! --Saqib (talk) 20:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I think we're going to leave the logo as it is for the moment, since we've been asked to 'cease and desist' using the current one and haven't yet decided on the replacement. The German tweets are from when it used to be the German Wikivoyage account, but I'm going to wipe those off shortly. Thanks for your support! :) --Nick ^talk 20:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Nick, any idea how to get html codes of the stroke colours contains in this file. --Saqib (talk) 20:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes - I personally find this tool very useful. The colours of the boxes on the right (working clockwise and starting from the top) are: #69999F #B383B3 #71B37B #8A84A3 #D09440 #578E86 #4F93C0 #D56D76 #D5DC76 #AC5C91 #B5D29F Hope this helps! :) --Nick ^talk 20:39, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh many thanks Nick. --Saqib (talk) 20:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

You're very welcome! :) --Nick ^talk 22:11, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, that's really great! I would have followed if not for the fact that I do not use Twitter, but I know the power therein. I would not wipe out the German tweets, they are alright to me, and a nice example what one can tweet about.

If I am right in guessing that you are asking for ideas on what to tweet about, apart from the DoTM and the other front page features, a good thing to tweet about would be the important article updates:

1. article overhauls to guide, and obviously star, status - I guess we could use a process when an article that is updated is submitted for review before it get promoted as such on Twitter and otherwise
2. other important article updates, such as discussion of new transportation features added (one that comes to my mind was the recent addition of Lisbon metro connection to Portela airport, which, if covered in detail shortly before launch, would have been of interest to many)

Those kinds of tweets could keep people coming to Wikivoyage and interested in the core content. Just my 3 cents. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:50, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Definitely - they're great ideas! You may be a little too late *ahem* for the German tweets, but they are all still available on Facebook, so, if required, they can be restored. --Nick ^talk 20:53, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Updates regarding our expeditions, mentions in the press, maybe the occasional item from the discover section on the front page... Maybe a link to a travel photo of the day? Texugo (talk) 21:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

They're all really good ideas - I like the idea of a photo of the day too! Are mentions of the site worth re-tweeting as well (as long as they're nice)? --Nick ^talk 21:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't see why not, if they are positive and not too random... Texugo (talk) 21:18, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! --Nick ^talk 22:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

So, while we are at that, how about starting a process where we can tout announce major updates, overhauls and upgrades to articles for review by other seasoned editors and, if worthy, a mention on Twitter? I guess it would be a great tool not only to make the Twitter account communicate there is a lot of new, quality content on Wikivoyage appearing everyday (and that you can indeed edit Wikivoyage, it is not a static guide website), but also to encourage us all to make quality edits and wrap up our work on a particular article or section within into a nice whole. I have a big amount of unfinished work started across many articles because all too often did I lack that little motivational prodding to wrap it up.

What do you think, guys? PrinceGloria (talk) 04:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea to me! I'll try and make sure something new is posted every day. --Nick ^talk 09:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Is sending specific tourism orgs a link to their guide on here and asking 'what do you think?' worth doing? --Nick ^talk 09:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Isn't this the objective of the Wikivoyage:Tourism Bureau Expedition. I believe it would be a great idea to do that. Meanwhile, how about the "article expansion / update" announcement, appraisal and tweeting process? PrinceGloria (talk) 11:10, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That does sound good - how would we go about organising it? --Nick ^talk 11:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, not a bad idea. You might want to set up a request page/section somewhere for that kind of thing, and an associated list of articles for which that has already been done, to prevent duplication. Texugo (talk) 12:09, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Good idea! Will do! --Nick ^talk 12:13, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Here we go: Wikivoyage:Social media/Twitter. Please post any nominations there! :) --Nick ^talk 12:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of social media... how to deal with spam on the Wikivoyage Facebook page?

Swept in from the pub

I'm an admin at the Wikivoyage Facebook page. I just signed on a few minutes ago to find that, apropos of nothing, a new person had "liked" our page and, only a few minutes later, left a link on it to a random hotel in Bordeaux. Unless something happened earlier that I'm not aware of, this is the first spammer we've had on our Facebook page. It's kind of nice in a way that we've become important enough for them to take notice, but it begs the question of what to do about it. I made the executive decision to delete the post (though I figured that unilaterally banning the user would be a bridge too far), but before this happens again I'd like to either know or have established a policy for determining what is and isn't spam on our Facebook page, and how to deal with it. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:09, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

When I ran the WT page, I deleted spam and banned the user unceremoniously. We don't need 'em. LtPowers (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I think if we get too many rules, things become a bit of a hassle, and the page still has a fairly miniscule 88 likers. James A ▪ talk 05:01, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

For interest that's what we do for the Wikipedia page (run by WMF). When I see it I delete and ban and I know most of the other admins have similar opinions). Jalexander (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

There should probably be a simple notice that spam will be deleted. Also, there is a difference between the person spamming a page/link for their business (or one they're paid to promote) and a user posting a link to an interesting/relevant page or link. The latter we could be a little more polite with....maybe delete and send them a message (which could be a generic, pre-written note) that we don't allow such links. A third case is when someone might post a Wikivoyage link or Wikivoyage-related link. Let's say someones on the wall that "I found Wikivoyage guides to Hong Kong very useful on my trip." and has a link to their travel blog entry (which actually mentions Wikivoyage, not just trying to get attention). I'm of the opinion/philosophy that we should start out nice, then take progressive actions if that doesn't work—delete spam, but have a notice and when not blatantly trying to get attention to a business, the user should get a message that we don't permit non-relevant links—repeat spammers then can be banned. This shouldn't be a major problem, until we get a lot more likes (say, tens of thousands). Until then, I don't see a problem with taking this nicer approach to deal with the rare case of spam...we can always adjust policy later if this becomes a problem. AHeneen (talk) 00:23, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

In that case, I'm glad I brought this issue up. The incident that prompted the original post was very clearly spam, but I for one see no problem at all with the second and third hypotheticals that AHeneen brought up. If it were up to me, I would just as soon let those stay up. Even if we're in agreement that spam should be deleted and spammers banned, I think the boundaries of what is considered "spam" are something that's worth coming to a consensus on. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:52, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Logo

The WV Facebook page is still using the old logo. Could an admin over there change this please? --Nick ^talk 23:27, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

WV on WP facebook

I just wonder, how are WV articles selected for posting on WP Facebook? Is there any nomination process? Their appearance boosts the number of visitors quite significantly. Until recently Transnistria article attracted no more than one digit number of visitors per day and following FB "advert" it jumped up to 960. Amazing. Needless to say, the numbers are dropping down since again, but still...Danapit (talk) 07:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I believe this is the page. It might be worth us contacting them! --Nick ^talk 13:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Help boost our Facebook page likes

Swept in from the pub

Hi all. I'm on a long Wikibreak here and will be back soon, but have been keeping track of our Facebook page now and again (thanks to the other dedicated users who've been doing a much better job!) I've found a way to merge the auto-generated FB page of 800+ likes which we have no control over with our own ~200 like, regularly updated page. However, the processing will be very slow as my request has been put in a queue, and can only be sped up with user votes. So if you've got Facebook, please take a couple of seconds to do the following:

1. Go to: [5]
2. Click the "Edit" button in top-right
3. Click "Vote on community pages", and then "Yes". Save

And that's it. The more people who vote, the further up the queue we go. It should add over 800 likes to our page, according to Facebook, so will be a dramatic boost to our social media presence. Thanks all. James A ▪ talk 13:20, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

At step 3 I only see "Category" and "Official page", no "Vote on community pages". Nicolas1981 (talk) 02:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Nick, actually the merging process is already completed that's why you won't see that "Vote on community pages" option at step 3 anymore. --Saqib (talk) 07:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Not much of a merge; we're still at 216 likes on the active Page. LtPowers (talk) 13:59, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it seems like they denied it for some silly, unknown reason. I'm not able to rerequest it either. The WMF folk will need to get onto it. I worry, because the WT FB page is doing very well. James A ▪ talk 02:19, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Recent tweets..

I'm not sure about the last couple of tweets that the Wikivoyage account has made.

For this one.. https://twitter.com/Wikivoyage/status/493432315259801601 I think it would be fine to say we have travel advice for people travelling during Eid. But I'm not quite sure the WV account should be wishing people a happy and blessed Eid, It really isn't travel related.

Similarly for this one https://twitter.com/Wikivoyage/status/492324688496824321 I'm not sure what the relevance is to Wikivoyage. it sounds like a personal sentiment to me. --Inas (talk) 01:08, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Inas, would you also say we probably shouldn't be wishing travelers a Merry Christmas? I think the tweet on Eid is very appropriate, as so many people travel to be with family on Eid. I'd feel the same way about a tweet for Christmas or Chinese New Years. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:14, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

I tweeted both of these among several others since June 3. Don't you think such tweets even though not travel-related but can actually hook new followers but If you guys think, thats not appropriate, I'll take down both of these tweets. --Saqib (talk) 01:18, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend for you to take either tweet down, myself. I see Inas' point in relation to the Malaysian Airlines crash, but I don't fault you for either tweet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:28, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not overly stressed about it - so let's not worry about those particular tweets, lets just resolve where to from here.

I think hooking new followers is good. I've no problem with the hashtag of #Eid. I just think that rather than wishing people Merry Christmas - which I think would be a personal sentiment and also inappropriate - we should link to some travel information about Christmas and places to visit etc. We all know our only true site-wide celebration is April Fools Day. --Inas (talk) 01:45, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

As someone who did a lot of the Tweeting until recently, I probably agree with Inas that the Malaysian Airlines crash tweet is perhaps not the best idea (I'd hate for us to be seen to benefit from a tragedy), though the Eid and Ramadan tweets are probably harmless and perhaps more indicative of a less formal, more friendly relationship with our followers. That said, like everyone else, I think we should leave the tweets as they are for the moment. Either way, I think Saqib is doing great work on Twitter and a much better job than I ever did! :) --Nick ^talk 01:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Inas, IK and Nick. I was just trying to convey condolence from a travellers community to friends and family of deceased travellers. Anyways, I'll be more careful next time. --Saqib (talk) 02:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Facebook

Swept in from the pub

Wouldn't it be a good idea to get some funds from WMF through grant for the promotion of WV through Facebook? Andrew? --Saqib (talk) 23:02, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean by "promotion"? We already have someone, I assume a volunteer, posting updates (new DotM etc.) to a WV page. I average about one link a week; when a friend says they are going to London or wherever, I often reply with a WV link. I cannot see that such activity needs funding.

If you mean buying Facebook ads, it would take a great deal to convince me that that would be a good use of WMF funds. Pashley (talk) 00:08, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I meant the latter. Well I'm afraid our presence on social media is not good particularly on FB. FB is without doubts a good tool for SEO and I think an affective way to increase the traffic to WV. When we'll make a post about featured articles, it will gives our featured articles an SEO boast. Our competitor WT FB page have quite good fan base than us. I think a FB page with good number of fan base is a powerful way to expand our reach and increase awareness of WV. I'm not sure either if that is really good and appropriate usage of WMF funds but we can try asking WMF grant department persons about their thoughts on this first. After-all, WV is the youngest project of WMF and some more publicity will definitely required to increase its visibility. --Saqib (talk) 00:34, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as Facebook's procedures have evolved over the years it has become progressively less effective as a marketing tool. I'm happy to help maintain Wikivoyage's Facebook presence, but I think relying on Facebook as the main, or even a significant, avenue of promotion for Wikivoyage would be a mistake. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:10, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Whilst I would definitely say that is worth maintaining and perhaps expanding our FB presence, I would agree that the WMF's money would perhaps be better spent advertising this site itself rather than our social media presence. As Andrew has suggested, it might be better to look at more efficient and effective ways to get people using WV on a regular basis. And it's always worth remembering: cream rises! --Nick ^talk 02:27, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not for or against the proposal, but Facebook has definitely tried to ultra-monetise pages over the past few years/months. Not only do they ask you to pay to get new likes, but they ask you to pay so that your own followers see your posts. Even if someone has liked our page, they're not guaranteed to see our posts unless we cough up money. And when Facebook pops up and shows small-ish amounts like $30 for thousands of views, that's only for one post. For effectiveness, we'd have to do it for every one of our posts, and the costs increase. I manage another Facebook campaign page on behalf of a municipal government, and they've just earmarked AUD8000 for Facebook advertising and promotion. It's not small money. James A ▪ talk 15:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. What might one day be possible (not necessarily through WMF funds but also possibly through sponsors) could be some kind of content related competition, like Wiki Loves Monuments did for monuments. Access to the WMF notice options is the key to success, much better than any "purchased" visibility on social networks. Say we can get some fabulous travel prizes to win -a trip to a great destination, travel guides, photo cameras- for a competition to add a specific kind of relevant content or pictures, that could lead to some serious sharing on FB and other social media as well as attract new readership and authors. Of course, this kind of thing requires a huge amount of work, and I'm not volunteering. :-) JuliasTravels (talk) 15:58, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

After reading all above comments, I'm very much convinced that advertisement on FB was definitely not a good idea and is not worth but your idea of a competition is just great Julia and I think this is something we should really talk about. Wikipedia is doing Wikicup and I think we should do such a on-wiki writing competition of a similar pattern. Anyways, I've asked Asaf Bartov, Head of WMF Grants to shed some light on this as I think he probably have some good experience with such stuff. --Saqib (talk) 16:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

The notice system Julia is talking about is called m:Special:CentralNotice.

If you'd like to know what running Wiki Loves Monuments entails, then look over commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013/FAQ. It might make more sense to piggyback on one of these larger projects. For example, could we partner with a photo-taking project to get more images added to existing articles? We could perhaps ask specifically for skyline/panorama images for pagebanners, if you didn't want just anything. Or perhaps WLM would be willing to have a suggestion that important monuments be considered for inclusion here as well as at the Wikipedias. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Touting on WV's Facebook page

Swept in from the pub

Just a heads-up that I blocked and banned this account from en.voy's Facebook page for touting. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:55, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

You don't need to mention that here because its not serious nor important. That often happens on FB and its absolutely fine to block people there. --Saqib (talk) 18:03, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Okay, but it seems like since we make such a big deal out of user bans on Wikivoyage itself, it might be controversial to do the same on our social media accounts. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

You gave me a good chuckle Andrew. Now I get you. --Saqib (talk) 18:38, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

We only make a big deal when they're contributors. The standards on Facebook are quite different. Powers ^(talk) 20:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Social media share buttons

Swept in from the pub

Wonder whether it would be a good idea to use social media share (Twitter and Facebook) in our guides. It would be definitely make much more easier for our readers to share a guide if they want to. Wikinews is one such example which use such social media buttons. --Saqib (talk) 22:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

First we should solve the problem of the image chosen by Facebook as a preview: Right now Facebook chooses the banner, which in many cases is just a grey default image. We can set the image manually by setting <meta property="og:image" content="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Chaukundi1.JPG" />. Ideally, we should suggest the picture in the heading paragraph if there is one, or the first image of the "See" section if there is one. Since we have banners, the first non-banner image is often in "Get In" or "Get around", usually showing a boring airport or bus. Nicolas1981 (talk) 04:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I oppose those buttons strongly. The normal way to add the button is adding code that directs the browser to get some elements from the foreign site. This allows them to keep track of our users, which is unacceptable. We would also be supporting those sites. Such buttons should be implemented/installed by the user, not by websites. --LPfi (talk) 07:51, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Does the solution have to include coding and tracking? How about just invoking the user's Twitter client and embedding the URL with TinyURL? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

No coding required Andrew. --Saqib (talk) 10:54, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

While this is better, it still involves promoting those sites on every page. I think it would be a dramatic decision, which should not be taken lightly. --LPfi (talk) 12:15, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

You're right but then I wonder why Wikinews uses these social share links and even on their main page. Other than that, WP Signpost also have social share buttons. While on MediaWiki, I found few social media extensions as well. —The preceding comment was added by Saqib (talk • contribs)

I also oppose social media share buttons. The drawbacks cited by LPfi far outweigh the benefits. Anyway, it's easy enough for users to share our guides on Facebook or Twitter simply by typing in the URL. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

On a related topic that should probably be spun off into a separate discussion thread, I would strongly support allowing the official Facebook pages of listed attractions, businesses, etc. to be linked, as fr:voy (and probably other language versions) do. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:08, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

The rationale against doing so has been that Facebook pages are almost invariably available in one click from the listing's home page, making it somewhat redundant. Sharing buttons, on the other hand, seem like something worth discussing. I don't see any strong drawbacks, and at any rate, other sister projects have deemed them useful. Powers ^(talk) 20:40, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I thought that it had already been resolved that it's no problem to provide a Facebook page under "url" for a business, if they have no other website. I'm not sure whether the previous discussion was at Wikivoyage talk:Listings or here. But in practice, haven't we been allowing Facebook page links under such circumstances for a few months already? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Just to return to Saqib's question of FB/Twitter link buttons, I don't see any disadvantages. The privacy issue that LPfi identified (and he is right to raise them) would not be a concern with this type of integration. The advantages would be greater linking of Wikivoyage articles on the web in general which would help both SEO and general internet mindshare. Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Oppose. I see no reason to clutter our guides with this. On the other hand, I routinely link here from Facebook whenever one of our guides is relevant to a conversation there, & would encourage others to do that. Pashley (talk) 02:57, 29 December 2014 (UTC)