Jellysandwich0

Hello, Jellysandwich0! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

Thank you for updating African articles. Gizza ^(roam) 03:23, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Minor edits!

Please stop marking the changes you make to article as minor, unless they really are. --Traveler100 (talk) 19:13, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Airlines that stopped flying

Thanks a lot, though, for deleting text about flights that no longer exist. Much appreciated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Great work! Ground Zero (talk) 22:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Also appreciate the work, but pleases untick the "This is a minor edit" box, a change of facts or rephrasing of sentences is not minor. --Traveler100 (talk) 04:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I certainly agree with that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:22, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Edit warring and marking edits as minor

Regarding this diff, this is your second warning about marking edits as minor when they're not minor. Also please do not edit war.

You've yet to respond to any of the messages on your talk page. I expect you to do so here, and for the behavior described above to stop, or it may be necessary to escalate the situation.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:35, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I just scrolled through your edits, and about 90% of the ones you made are marked as "minor." Minor should mean typo corrections and the like, not controversial changes. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:48, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Blocked

You will no longer be able to edit Edirne, thanks to your continued edit warring. I probably should have blocked you from editing any page for three days, but I have been lenient this time and only stopped you from editing one page. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:51, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Hopefully, after three days, you will learn not to do this again and edit Edirne constructively. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:54, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Again with the "minor" edits that are not minor

Again, thanks for deleting information about an airline that's gone out of business, but STOP MARKING SUCH EDITS AS MINOR! Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:31, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Hellooo? Can you demonstrate that you've read a single one of these requests? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

• This is a minor edit, changing the wording of a sentence to make it flow better.
• This is not a minor edit, removing information that was previously in the article in order to make the article up-to-date.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:34, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I’ve blocked the user, as s/he has been blocked (from editing one page) before, for three days. Our policy is to escalate blocks when necessary. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:37, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

edits

Swept in from the pub

I was recently suspended for marking edits "minor". If there is a written rule for this I would like to read it. It seems trivial to me, but to someone else it is not. Where is this rule?Jellysandwich0 (talk) 21:40, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Jellysandwich0. The "minor" button is to mark edits that make no real difference to the article, like changing the punctuation or fixing an obvious typo. The edits you were making are much more important than that and should not have been marked as minor.

The simplest rule is: Don't use it. Nobody is ever required to use the "minor" button, and using it doesn't help you anyway. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, WhatamIdoing "Don't use it."? The option is provided to contributors for a reason. Where is this rule printed? That is what I asked, so please inform me. Jellysandwich0 (talk) 22:07, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

The issue wasn't just that the edits were marked as minor. That alone wouldn't have caused your block. It was the fact that, when we raised concerns about the edits you marked minor, you refused to co-operate. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:42, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:How to edit a page says"... usually, spelling corrections, grammar, or formatting changes are "minor", and changes to the real information on a page are not."

The only time I use it is when I make a change, save it and then immediately notice an error. So if the article says "Smallville is served by two airlines: Flyone and Flytwo"; if Flytwo goes bust and you edit to say "Smallville is served by two airlines: Flyone" that is not a minor edit, but a second edit to change it to "Smallville is served by one airline: Flyone" could be marked as minor. AlasdairW (talk) 22:48, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, AlasdairW Thank you for the link, that is what I wanted. It states, "It's up to you to determine what makes your changes "minor" -- usually, spelling corrections, grammar, or formatting changes are "minor", and changes to the real information on a page are not." When you quoted it, you omitted the beginning. Why? It states that the writer determines what is minor.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 23:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Selfie City, since the written policy, which you are certainly well aware of, states the writer determines what is minor, I don't see a reason to be suspended. And if you have "concerns" about it, I am not obligated to cooperate with you. The policy does not state that either, so it is not grounds for a suspension.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 23:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Look, Jellysandwich0, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is not a battle you're going to win. You would be best advised to drop the issue, no longer mark non-minor edits as minor, and mind your Ps and Qs in general. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, AndreCarrotflower. Wikivoyage stated "It's up to you to determine what makes your changes "minor"." It seems that was disregarded when an important decision was made. Why are you asking me "to drop the issue"? The guideline is clear.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 00:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jellysandwich0: We also have a page called Wikivoyage:Keep Wikivoyage fun that you might find worth reading. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:43, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Selfie City. The page you mentioned states, "when conducted properly, discussions on an idea can pull the community together". This discussion is about whether it is up to the writer whether or not to mark a change as minor (as is clearly stated) and if so, whether suspension is appropriate for someone operating within guidelines. Your talk about "concerns", cooperating, and a page about fun to me seem attempts to distract from the issues of what is permitted and whether the suspension is appropriate.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 01:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Because "the issue" isn't only the minor edits; it's also your non-acknowledgement of the messages on your talk page, your inability or unwillingness to accept the explanations other users have given you in this thread, and frankly, your very strange contribution history that consists almost exclusively of instances of removing detail from articles that you arbitrarily define as unnecessary or excessive, which is almost certainly the reason why other users have been monitoring your edits so closely. And the reason why you're being asked to "drop" it is for your own good, namely because your conduct in this thread is placing you in danger of another user block. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:51, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, AndreCarrotflower. The issue is the minor edit designation. That is the talk page section where the suspension notice was placed. My request to see the guideline regarding minor edits does not justify threatening "your conduct in this thread is placing you in danger of another user block." I asked where the guidelines are and the first two people to respond did not tell me. The third person quoted part of it, but, conspicuously, omitted the most important part of it. After reading the full guideline, the suspension seems inappropriate.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 02:06, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

When a contributor ignores entreaties from others in the community and just carries on doing whatever they feel like, imposing a block may be the only way to get their attention. In this case, it has worked. And I agree with others here who believe that your edits were not minor. The part about it being "up to you to determine if your edits are minor" does not let you ignore the part that says that "changes to the real information on a page are not" minor. Ground Zero (talk) 01:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Ground Zero. Thank you for taking the time to read the guideline. It would be more constructive if everyone were to focus on the facts (including the guideline Wikivoyage has provided). And the part that says "changes to the real information on a page are not minor" does not let you ignore the part that says that "it's up to you to determine what makes your changes "minor"". You forgot to mention the beginning of what you quoted, "usually, spelling corrections, grammar, or formatting changes are "minor", and changes to the real information on a page are not." Notice the word "usually" at the beginning. It impacts the meaning and should not have been omitted. Wikivoyage has made it clear that the writer determines what will be marked minor. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it is clear the the writer is entitled to make the decision.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 01:45, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Jellysandwich0, we may have to agree to disagree on how to interpret that guideline, but in the end, this is a collaborative project, not a court room. A user who chooses not to collaborate and ignores other contributors isn't being very constructive. The time to discuss what "minor" means was when FIVE other editors were raising this on your talk page, not when things escalated to a block, let alone the second time you were blocked. Ground Zero (talk) 01:58, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Ground Zero, agreeing to disagree on interpretation is appropriate when a guideline is unclear. But the guideline is not unclear - the first sentence is clear. If five people are unaware of Wikivoyage's editing guideline, it is not my responsibility, and if five people are aware of Wikivoyage's editing guideline and wish to disregard it, it is not my responsibility.Jellysandwich0 (talk) 02:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Whether there was a problem with the guideline or not, ignoring other editors turned a minor problem into a major one. That is on you. Ignoring other editors in a collaborative project is not acceptable. The more you try to lawyer this, the less likely you are to convince anyone. The issue is your behaviour. Ground Zero (talk) 02:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

This discussion was obviously going nowhere fast, so Jellysandwich got a two-week block per Wikivoyage:Keep Wikivoyage fun#Taking action and Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits#Escalating user blocks and hopefully that gets through to him. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I will add this: You are not entitled to a complete set of written rules. You are not entitled to have an explanation of the rules that satisfies you. If you need a complete set of written rules, you are in the wrong place.

Wikivoyage is a collaborative project. You have to be able to work in a way that works for everyone. If you can't do that, then you will not be able to participate here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2020 (UTC)