Wikivoyage talk:Babel

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Interwikiista extraordinaire* User:(WT-en) Episteme started uploading the babel templates here, and I think they're useful for Wikivoyagers. I'm not sure, however, where to link to them (I added them to Project:Help for now).

This idea started with Wikimedia, and I think at least the basics translate for Wikivoyage. But I also know that userboxes have been really controversial on Wikipedia, so there may be some ideas about being careful with these.

Let's get this started for Wikivoyage, and see what we need to adapt for local use. --(WT-en) Evan 12:30, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

* How many languages are there in that description?

I'm OK with Babel but I really don't want to see any of that "I'm a religious gay Republican furry who likes toy trains!" userbox-crap on Wikivoyage... here's hoping we can someday move the User space entirely to World66. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:44, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

And regarding the *, I can count Latin (inter, extra), Hawaiian (wiki), Spanish (-ista), and French (ordinaire). (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:44, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

Can we just copy the Babel language templates from wikipedia? (WT-en) Vivafelis 21:03, 13 July 2006 (EDT)

So it looks like we can't get more than 5 languages on our Babel templates on our userpages. Am I seeing that right? --(WT-en) Zephyros 01:25, 30 November 2006 (EST)

let's use categories!

See Project:Categories#let's use categories for Babel tagging of users (please leave your comments there). --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:24, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Azerbaijani Addition

Guys, I can only find Turkish, but I want to add Azerbaijani to the list- how can I do that? Thanks!!

new language won't show in Babel box

I just added Hindi to the list and created the template boxes for it, what is the final step I'm missing so that they will actually display when added to the Babel box? – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 21:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Whatever it is I didn't have to do it on Shared, it works right away... hmmm.... – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 21:53, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Maximum

Is there a reason why I can 'only' use 6 languages? And why does it need the number of languages as an input anyway? Keep up the good work! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Sjors (talk • contribs)

There are actually separate templates for each one... Template:Babel-2, Template:Babel-3, etc. Not sure how many you were aiming for, but I just created Babel-7 and Babel-9, so if it was 7 or 9, you were just having problems because nobody had created the templates yet. I'm hoping you speak 9 languages, that would give User:(WT-en) Jpatokal something new to strive towards. If you speak 10+ languages, then I shall ask for proof.  :) – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 19:51, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

Well "speaking" is a bit overstated. I personally use the chat-with-a-taxi-driver criterion and at least I can "understand written material or simple questions" in the languages I mentioned, especially when I take a lot of time for it and use some tools. It's a hobby, though unfortunately I do not have a lot of time for it and my lack of memory does not help either. Many languages are quite similar on a basic level, so the list grows quickly. (WT-en) Sjors 11:32, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

People that can master that many languages simply amaze me. If I don't use a language on a daily basis I'd loose it in no time. Met an interesting individual the other day (a guard at Fort Klapperkop in Pretoria) that greeted us in 5 of South Africas official languages. My girlfriend answered in Portuguese expecting to leave him baffled, but he promptly started a conversation in Portuguese with her. Turns out he speaks not only all 11 official South African languages, but also French, German, Greek and Portuguese. --(WT-en) Nick 16:02, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Welsh addition

I've added Welsh (cy) templates. I've used the text from Wiki Commons, however I don't think the definitions tie up that well with those for existing languages on Wikivoyage (plus it only had definitions for cy-1, cy-2 and cy-3). So if anyone speaks "formal" Welsh better than me please plunge forward and improve them. (WT-en) Tarr3n 06:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Colors

I'd like to suggest modifying the colors for a more even progression from -1 to -4 (at least). Any thoughts? (WT-en) LtPowers 22:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

I changed the colors a few days ago. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:23, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

slovenian

How come some of the Slovenian templates are messed up? (WT-en) Ctoocheck 19:24, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

They aren't, they just haven't been created yet.... if you speak the language, please go ahead and create them.... you can copy the templates from another language to get the same colors, etc.... then change the wording. Thanks! – (WT-en) cacahuate ^talk 20:09, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

How to create templates? @cacahuate Mayon V (talk) 00:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

How to Create Templates

Maybe I'm just dense, but it says "just create one" on the front page, leaving me wondering how you create a template (these templates)? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 04:00, 16 December 2009 (EST)

See Project:Mediawiki templates. Just create it the way you would any other article. Copy the code from an existing set of templates and modify as appropriate. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:44, 16 December 2009 (EST)

Tell me where exactly on Project:MediaWiki I can create template? Still confusing. Mayon V (talk) 00:06, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Alphabetical order

Are the languages supposed to be an alphabetical by language name or language code? Currently, Croatian and Swedish are by name, but most others are by code. (WT-en) –sumone10154 23:07, 30 January 2011 (EST)

I believe it's supposed to be by code, although I'm not sure why. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 02:53, 31 January 2011 (EST)

Yes, it would be more user friendly by name. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:57, 31 January 2011 (EST)

Sorry Peter, I'm not sure what you mean (and I think you're contradicting yourself) when you respond to "I believe it's supposed to be by code" with "Yes it would be more user friendly by name" Did you mean no? (WT-en) –sumone10154 17:43, 31 January 2011 (EST)

"Supposed to be" meaning in this case 'someone tried to arrange it that way' rather than 'it would be good to arrange it that way'. So it's not contradictory. (WT-en) LtPowers 18:56, 31 January 2011 (EST)

Oh ok, then I'll arrange it by language name. (WT-en) –sumone10154 22:14, 31 January 2011 (EST)

A new Babel template

Swept from the pub:

I propose creating a new Babel template similar to the one on Wikipedia. That way, we won't need to have 11 separate Babel templates, and we would only use one template. The eleven currently existing templates would redirect to the new one. –sumone10154^(talk) 23:34, 7 October 2012 (CEST)

Babel user information
en-N This user has a native understanding of English.
Users by language

The babel extension works (see Special:Version and mw:Extension:Babel) so you should decide if you want to merge the templates, use the extension, or leave thing as is. Allen4names (talk) 04:39, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Babel templates

Swept from the pub:

RfC I'd like some feedback on the use of Babel categories and templates. First off, I would like to recommend that all xx-0 categories and templates other than en-0 be deleted and removed: they serve no actual function in collaboration (how does it help me if two of us don't know any Thai?) It is worth noting if contributors here don't know English, though, as this is an English-language edition of Wikivoyage.

Furthermore, I'd like to recommend against having the templates at all, since the Babel Extension is activated here and all I need to do is add (e.g.) {{#babel: en-0 | de | es-3 | ... }} and I will be automatically categorized. Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:44, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Seems logical -- Alice^✉ 08:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

xx-0 templates could possibly be useful (for example, a user lives in Thailand, but doesnt speak Thai), but I do agree that the categories are useless.

I strongly oppose deletion of the templates; many users aren't familiar with the extension. It's also nice to be able to customize the colors. –sumone10154^(talk) 09:29, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree that xx-0 templates may be useful if a user might be expected to know a language (e.g. by residence or interests) but doesn't know that language. I don't see why the templates would make any harm. --Stefan2 (talk) 11:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Using the extension instead of templates would greatly simplify maintenance. But, I agree with Sumone10154 that it's nice to be able to use our own colors; I adjusted them back in '09 to make a more consistent spectrum from -5 to -0. What colors does the Babel extension use? LtPowers (talk) 16:05, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Colors I don't mean to be rude, but you can see yourself: copy and paste {{#babel:en-5|en-4|en-3|en-2|en-1|en-0|en}} into the Graffiti wall. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I suppose so, but I thought perhaps discussion of it would assist others so that folks reading this discussion in the future would be able to see what we were talking about without having to assemble a reference themselves. That said, the extension's colors are very close to ours so I have no objection to using the extension over the templates. But really, we should be discussing this at Wikivoyage talk:Babel. LtPowers (talk) 14:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Moved To #Discontinue_templates here. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:21, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Discontinue templates

Continued from pub discussion above

RfC I'd like some feedback on the use of Babel categories and templates. First off, I would like to recommend that all xx-0 categories and templates other than en-0 be deleted and removed: they serve no actual function in collaboration (how does it help me if two of us don't know any Thai?) It is worth noting if contributors here don't know English, though, as this is an English-language edition of Wikivoyage.

Furthermore, I'd like to recommend against having the templates at all, since the Babel Extension is activated here and all I need to do is add (e.g.) {{#babel: en-0 | de | es-3 | ... }} and I will be automatically categorized. Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:21, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Is there any reason not to get rid of the templates, then? --Peter ^Talk 20:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Comment: The Babel extension adds a header and a footer. You can get hide while logged in by adding the style rules below to your Special:MyPage/common.css page.

/* Hide the Babel extension header and footer (alternative commented out). */
table.mw-babel-wrapper th { display: none; }
/* th.mw-babel-header, th.mw-babel-footer { display: none; } */

JavaScript may also be used but it can be disabled. Allen4names (talk) 19:13, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Czech language should be 'cs' (not 'cz')

The Czech language has a different code from the country code.

Minusf (talk) 06:29, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Babel Latin

There is no Babel Template for Latin. Can somebody create a Babel Latin Template? Thank you -- Feuermond16 (talk) 12:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

We don't need a Latin template. It's a dead language, and being able to contribute in Latin is no use to any Wikivoyage project. Powers ^(talk) 12:38, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

While there will probably never be a Latin edition of Wikivoyage, we should support Latin in the template because:

• Travelers throughout at least the Western world can encounter Latin inscriptions wherever they go. I regularly see some of them on short walks from my house in San Jose.
• Programmers who say that nobody will ever use something in a particular manner are usually wrong.
• The Babel template gave the OP an incorrect result when he tried to specify Latin, (and I independently fell into the same trap). So, since it already needs to be fixed, why not just enable the language, instead of trying to figure out how to handle the error?

The Wikipedia {{User}} template already produces Babel boxes for all (?) ISO 639 language codes. Can we transclude that into our Babel template? Peter Chastain (talk) 01:18, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

If it does no harm, why not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

If I'm understanding correctly there are two issues: first, since it's a userpage template, if someone wants to put French, Latin, Esperanto, or Klingon in it I don't see the problem - it only appears on a userpage, so, as Hobbitschuster says, there's no harm. Second, as far as I can tell w:Template:User is completely unrelated to {{Babel}} - I assume you meant a different template? -- Ryan • (talk) • 01:40, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Ryan. When I set up my Wikipedia user page, I was unaware that WP had a template called Babel. Copying code from other users' pages, I created my babelboxes with a series of lines like {{user es-3}}. I am frankly mystified by the source code for both templates but can tell you that {{babel|la-2}} works at es-wikivoyage. Peter Chastain (talk) 15:33, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Templates for Klingon or Latin may not do any harm, but I wasn't going go to the effort to create them just for the sake of having them... because, as I said, they're not needed. That said, Template:User la-2already exists, incorrectly reporting the Laotian language instead of Latin. (Lao is :lo, not :la). That should be either repaired or deleted. Powers ^(talk) 20:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Converted to Lua

Per the suggestion of Peter Chastain I've imported the Wikipedia version of Template:Babel. If there are any issues we can easily revert to the older version. -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:11, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Ryan, it looks good from here. Thanks much! Peter Chastain (talk) 23:30, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:User en-5 of babel combinations missing

Swept in from the pub

Seems [[Template:User en-5]] is missing of the [[Template:Babel]] combinations. Somebody forget to import it form the 'pedia? Jukeboksi (talk) 23:11, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

We don't use -5 babel templates. You can see the full list at Wikivoyage:Babel. We already have six levels for each language (0-4, plus native); is that not enough? Powers ^(talk) 00:03, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Template:User en-4 works. Jukeboksi (talk) 00:10, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

How to do the translating? Mayon V (talk) 23:49, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

New Templet Kurdish (ku)

I made a new Templet of My Language (Kurdish) in the English Language so as to be understood by everyone... so do I need to mack the text in Kurdish or it is better to remain in English Words? Sarbast.T.Hameed (talk) 15:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Babel templates are always in the language being mentioned, so the text of Kurdish Babel should be in Kurdish. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:32, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Confiermed and I will Translate it very soon Sarbast.T.Hameed (talk) 7:38, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

It Has been Done and I Translated The Babel Templet Kurdish (ku) into my Native language (Kurdish)...Sarbast.T.Hameed (talk) 00:14, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Update to use the extension?

Is there some reason this page still tells about using the babel template ({{babel|...}}) instead of the extension ({{#babel:...}}? The latter was introduced for performance reason, I suppose, and is now the recommended way. No big deal if we use templates, but if there is no specific reason I think it makes sense to update. --LPfi (talk) 08:06, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Only reason not do change is that the module does not have any user documentation. --Traveler100 (talk) 11:04, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Replace all user language templates with #babel

Should I run a bot to replace uses of user language templates such as {{user en}} and of the use of {{babel}}? --Traveler100 (talk) 11:07, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

All reference would then use #babel and all 300+ user template can be deleted. Bot would be editing other users pages. --Traveler100 (talk) 16:15, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Traveler100: Hmm... That sounds like a bit of a stretch. I say 'replace' if it's possible in an easy way. But on the other side, May I ask whats wrong with the existing template? Arep Ticous 01:02, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  • It is not difficult at all, have the code already written to make the change. Reason the topic started was because of a discussion on removing templates that were not needed. In this case just one to maintain rather than hundreds. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Are there cases where the babel templates are mixed with other user boxes? I know I've seen examples on Wikipedia, where I think just substituting the babel templates with the module would not work. I suppose one should check for such cases while doing the substitution and think once more about deleting templates when we know whether the module works in all cases. Furthermore, on Wikpedia there was a recommendation to subst the babel templates to lessen burden on the servers. Does the substitution code handle substed babel templates? --LPfi (talk) 12:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
      • I have been visually checking the edits suggested by the bot and have not seen any cases of this. There are some formatted inside tables or other html tags so I have left these as separate calls rather than gathering them into one call with multi parameters. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Bikol addition

I added my native language Bikol but it kept on saying about one's abilty in English. Mayon V (talk) 10:41, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Why some boxes are hidden?

I'm afraid to add more Philippine languages already available on "phrasebooks".

Chinese characters for Minnan.

Hey guys, could someone please add in the Chinese characters for Minnan/Hokkien/Taiwanese in the Babel box. It's very rare to write Minnan in Peh-oe-ji (Roman alphabet), and virtually every Minnan speaker writes with Chinese characters. The version of Babel on Wikipedia already has the Chinese characters, so you can just copy it over from there. Otherwise, could someone please point me to the page this data is stored in so I can edit it myself? Thanks. The dog2 (talk) 17:33, 20 February 2020 (UTC)