Talk:Georgia (country)

Formatting and language conventions For articles about Georgia, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: 100 lari, and not ₾100, 100 ლ, or GEL100. To provide automatic currency conversion to readers, please write with a help of the {{GEL}} template whenever possible. {{GEL|100|when=31-01-2031}} will produce 100 lari. Please use American spelling.

Travel & Tourist Agencies

I removed these from the main page as I don't believe it meets our goals. Looks like another way to add external links.

(removed - was attracting new spam)

-- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 10:07, 29 December 2006 (EST)

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Images

I added images by Mr Marko Petrovic, very talented photographer and he gave permission to use his photos on Wikivoyage article Georgia. I copied his email and attached to each image in the Wikivoyage shared page. Please see description there. You can find collection of amazing Georgian photos here: http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/Georgia/ Thanks. (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 10:30, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

p.s more images to come. (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 10:53, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Ancient wine traditions

Just to preempt any boring controversy over Georgia's wine traditions, here are (WT-en) CanadianTraveler's sources:

--(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald ^Talk 16:01, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Links removed to avoid spam filter. See archive [1].

Geographical hierarchy for Georgia

Discussion moved to Talk:Georgia (country)/Geographical hierarchy

The discussion took place in 2008, but hasn't been touched since then. I think that Georgia is an extremely diverse region. If talking about Shida Kartli and Kvemo Kartli -- these two regions are extremely different in landscape, weather and especially ethnic composition. I think that we should separate Kartli into 2 separate articles. I know that it is almost a stub now, but nevertheless: there are tons of things to write about. Soshial (talk) 10:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree. I have no idea who has been making this region combinations in Wikivoyage. It saves a few pages but it certainly doesn't make it clearer for curious readers. Georgia doesn't have that many regions. Just 9. Make them all separate (I could live with Adjaria and Guria combined) and every reader can relate to the administrative regions without any "?" in all literature they look at. Labrang (talk) 15:36, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Trans-Caucasus Itinerary

I am interested in assisting in creating a 12-15 day trans-Caucasus itinerary with Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. Would anyone be interested in assisting me with this? (WT-en) Cupcakecommander 02:51, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Information about Russia-Georgia war

Russian troops are only in Samegrelo in Northwest Georgia (near Abkhasia) and they are doing nothing in thear , CAN WE REMOVE WARNING?

- I'm from Georgia —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 89.232.10.171 (talk • contribs)

I understand the desire to remove the warning, but while there is no more active conflict right now, it's very unclear how things will settle. The fact that there are foreign troops in Samegrelo underscores this point. Wikivoyage keeps up warnings when there is something to warn about, even though, for example, I myself would feel perfectly comfortable visiting Georgia east of Gori right now. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:59, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Questionable edits regarding Russian language in Georgia

Some very dubious edits keep cropping up over the years suggesting that Russian is no longer useful in Georgia, and that travelers can get by fine by speaking English with kids. This is ridiculous. Barring the mass murder of everyone over 30 in the country, I doubt so much has changed since I lived there in 2005, when about one in three people speaks Russian competently, and certainly any English ability on the part of schoolchildren was extremely limited, as there is a shortage of qualified English instructors. Some of the information being added is strictly nonfactual, like the notion that Russian language instruction was ever compulsory in Georgia... As a matter of fact, people are much more willing to speak Russian in the Caucasus than in the Baltics precisely because it was never mandatory. If you politely ask someone, უკაცრავად, რუსული იცით?, they will either shake their head no, or otherwise happily assist you.

It is also not useful to keep harping on the Russo-Georgian conflict ad nauseum. Travel in Georgia has little to do with it, and a lot more to do with friendly, hospitable people, delicious food, spectacular and diverse landscapes, and a unique culture and history predating the latest little conflict to the tune of 3500 years. Lets get back on topic.

I'll be reverting a lot of this bunk in the days to come. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 22:06, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

• Another edit by @The dog2 suggested that Russian language is a very sensitive issue in Georgia. I completely disagree, since it is the almost the only lingua franca in the region and many Georgians do not mind speaking Russian. Soshial (talk) 05:05, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

I had the same understanding as The dog2 with that issue as well. Had no idea that many Georgians are willing to speak Russian. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

I didn't know that. I thought that Georgians will refuse to speak Russian even if they are fluent because Georgia is politically aligned with the United States and the European Union, and Russian is regarded as the language of an unwanted colonial oppressor. The dog2 (talk) 05:20, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

I am a Russian citizen and I have travelled to Georgia since 2014 many times and eventually moved here, and I have never met any problem with neither being Russian nor with me speaking Russian to Georgians. I might even add that many Georgians explicitly stressed that Georgian and Russian peoples were and still are friendly nations and Georgians are wise enough to separate notions of Russian people and culture from the Russian state, that they consider as aggressor. This can be explained partially that some patriotic Russians that support the Russian aggression, do not travel to Georgia; besides that many opposition-minded Russians move to Georgia from Russia for political reasons. I think that Georgians are happy to see Russians moving to Georgia because of Putin. A number of big websites have a Russian version (for instance all mobile operators do). Even more than that, many tourists from Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia come to Georgia and most of them speak Russian language since it is a lingua franca since the Soviet times; even some Poles try to speak Russian a bit with locals. I don't want to be rude, @The dog2, but please check the facts before adding surmises to the article. Soshial (talk) 06:46, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

That's interesting. I thought people from the Baltic states refuse to speak Russian for political reasons unless they are ethnic Russians. Because I am from Asia, I am more familiar with Asian language politics, and if you go to Hong Kong, even though Mandarin is compulsory in school, the young people refuse to learn Mandarin as a matter of principle because they consider Mandarin to be the language of China, which they regard as the oppressor. In fact, during the protests, shops supporting the protesters were putting up signs saying that Mandarin speakers were not welcome unless they were Taiwanese, and non-Taiwanese are only allowed to be served in Cantonese or English. I though there might be a similar dynamic between Russia and the more US/EU-aligned former communist states. The dog2 (talk) 07:12, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

@The dog2 A little unrelated to Georgia, but would speaking Russian in Estonia get raised eyebrows from the locals? Estonia was once a part of the Soviet Union, but these days they're more aligned with Finland. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:18, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

No idea since I have never been to Estonia, and I don't speak Russian. But I have noticed that younger Estonians are more likely to speak English than Russian. That said, there is a large ethnic Russian minority in Estonia, and their native language is Russian. Soshial might know the situation in Estonia too. The dog2 (talk) 07:22, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

It's best not to type things in articlespace just because you surmise them based on what you think are analogies with things you've experienced. That tendency has led to totally unnecessary controversy before. Just ask on the talk page. I used to have a really, really annoying geometry teacher in my sophomore year of high school, and she had a habit of making the following really rude comment: "Don't assume, because when you assume, you make an a-s-s of you and me." Rude and very blunt, but I nevertheless thought of it. I guess Ms. Webber would be pleased... Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:58, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Currency code or lari

Just to be sure on this, does every one agree on using "lari" instead of "₾", "ლ" or "GEL" as the single currency identifier for all articles on Georgia? Cheers Ceever (talk) 19:18, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a stupid sentence. ;-) I will just go ahead with this approach if no one objects. Cheers. Ceever (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2017 (UTC) Ceever (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I object to using lari. As per Wikivoyage:Currency we should use the notation most frequently used by locals, so that Wikivoyage reader could recognize it in a pricelist/menu. This is a similar case to Russian руб. Soshial (talk) 09:38, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

A little too late, that answer. :-D But OK, counting: 1

Also note, for Armenia and Aserbaidschan we have the same login: dram and manat. And people almost exclusively use the word "lari" in their language. So, this is in line with Wikivoyage:Currency.

Cheers, Ceever (talk) 10:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I think that our readers would hear many times and recognize the word "lari" anyway. And it takes only once to read and remember what the currency is called in "Money" section, but it might be quite challenging to recognize prices in different texts, inscriptions, marshrutkas routes' pricelists etc. So I think that some of "₾", "ლ" or "GEL" variants is the best fit for this. Soshial (talk) 18:36, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Advice on pre-booking accomodation

Currently there is advice to arrive without a booking, claiming the owners will give the online price.

I came to edit this page to leave the complete opposite advice, and was very surprised to see what the previous editor sad to say. My experience has been that without a booking prices are likely to be bumped up marginally, especially in the off-season and this advice was also given to me twice by seasoned travelers who were leaving georgia. It is a noble sentiment to help accomodation providers keep more of their earnings, but It may not be in the interest of the traveler.

Does anyone have input on this, because I would like to reach consensus.

-willthewanderer 26/10/2017

Without knowing anything about the actual situation on the ground in Georgia, your best bet may be to try to write it to include both sides of the coin. Powers ^(talk) 21:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

I was the one who wrote it. Maybe it depends on the kind of accommodation. For me it was mostly budget accommodation. If this was the case for you too, then maybe we could change it towards saying that "when turning up on sight and quoting the price of pages like booking, owners will give you that rate and they will in addition save the fees, even though it might be more expensive when you do not quote the booking website". What do you think? Ceever (talk) 13:08, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Lede

I disagree with assertions that country headers are supposed to be short and dry, even though there are many examples of such elsewhere. But look at USA, look at France, look at Italy, New Zealand, UK. These are good examples in varying lengths of how to write a good introduction to a travel guide. They set the scene, summarise the country, sell the dream. Compare those to "Georgia (Georgian: საქართველო, Sakartvelo) is a country in the Caucasus. Sandwiched between Russia in the north and Turkey in the south, it sits on the coast of the Black Sea." and we're yawning because it's just like Wikipedia and tells you nothing to whet your appetite. Why anyone would think that is preferable over the lovely introduction written by IP User:80.99.57.97 is beyond me. It doesn't matter if stuff gets repeated in Understand, because it is an introduction, that's what they're for.

Quoting Wikivoyage:Country article template: The first section of the country article does not have a heading. This is the place for rhetorical flourish, not a list of dry facts; try to leave detailed information on history, culture, etc, for the Understand section. While some identifying information about the country can be useful (so that the traveller has some idea what you're talking about), the main purpose of the lead paragraph is to hook the reader's interest., it is clear that the Wikivoyage gods intended us to write beautiful intros, not stuffy one liners.

Plus, all that white space looks ridiculous and is a dreadful introduction to any article, never mind an entire country.

I would ask that either User:Ceever or User:Ibaman restore the IP's version of the lede, because what you have asserted as fact or policy is neither. Tidy it up if you will to make it flow nicer, but that version should be your starting point. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:04, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:10, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

As it states and you have quoted: "This is the place for rhetorical flourish, not a list of dry facts; try to leave detailed information on history, culture, etc, for the Understand section.". What I moved down to the Understand section was more than just rhetorical flourish, namely a list of dry facts, arbitrary but facts. It was even an incomplete excerpt on history, which I find kind of sad, spreading such facts over various sections of an article, which happens quite often here on WV and creates duplication and chaos in the articles, instead of sticking it where it belongs. If you have been to Georgia, please, feel free to add something rhetorical flourish on people, feel of country and such, but please no facts that belong into the Understand section. Ceever (talk) 12:49, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

What, so as opposed to facts, we should only have falsehoods? The "facts" (just true stuff about the country) were not dry, they were interesting, and far superior to what is there now. I haven't been to Georgia, and nor have many other people, yet the IP user clearly has, which is why the IP's intro is a good starting point for improvement. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I think the solution is to have a lede that's no more than one paragraph long, with some of the material moved to "Understand" but keeping enough of it in the lede to keep it colorful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

If the lede is only going to be one paragraph long, I think we need to do something about the formatting to get rid of the big ugly white space. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:21, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Some information is useful in the introduction, but I don't think such detailed information should be included there. I'd agree with the one paragraph idea, although let's remember that a paragraph doesn't have to be two lines long. Selfie City (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Are we talking in general terms, or just for Georgia? I don't think the longer ledes linked above should be shortened. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:56, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting a one-paragraph standard as a rule, only as a compromise that could work in this article and satisfy both sides of this particular argument. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

A compromise would be welcome from my POV. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:32, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for those of you who expressed support for the longer introduction. As ThunderingTyphoons! correctly guessed, I have been to Georgia on many occasions and I just wanted to make this article more presentable and more worthy of the wonderful country that is Georgia. It is heartbreaking to reduce this introduction to a single, formulaic sentence. I also think we're dealing with a bit of a double standard here. Because Georgia is a small and relatively obscure country at the very edge of the continent, I suspect it is tempting for some to think that a single line would suffice for an introduction. After all, what could be interesting about such a "wretched" place?! On the flip side, I don't see anyone putting up a fight on pages like the Netherlands, which have large introductions replete with information AND praise...Keeping Georgia's introduction as a single, large paragraph, as it is now, is acceptable if people insist. However, I concur that the empty space it creates is hideous and serves no apparent purpose.

Georgia is in Eastern Europe?

Georgians, and perhaps a few other editors here, seem to consider that Georgia is in Eastern Europe. If so, we can and should respect that without stating without qualification that "Georgia is in Eastern Europe", because most of the world will disagree. Traditionally, at least in the West, Eastern Europe was considered to constitute the non-Soviet European countries in the Warsaw Pact - plus, I suppose, neutral Communist Yugoslavia and Albania, which played the Soviets off against the Chinese and maintained a dystopian independent regime - only (with Greece and perhaps Turkey and Cyprus being excluded for political reasons), but certainly nowhere east of most of the Asian part of Turkey. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union, and the region it's in is not the Balkans but the Caucasus. I don't know why it's controversial among some Georgians to state that their country is Caucasian, but this is not the first time we've seen this type of edit. We do have Georgia breadcrumbed to Europe and are treating the Caucasus as part of Europe, but stating that it's in "Eastern Europe" will confuse a lot of people who think of that term as encompassing nations like Bulgaria and Romania.

Is it actually a sensitive issue in Georgia to call the country part of the Caucasus region, and should it be stated in "Respect" that Georgians consider their nation part of Eastern Europe? I'd be OK with that if it's in fact an issue. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:10, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

In my experience, most people in the West have no idea what the Caucasus is. In everyday use, these countries are referred to as Eastern Europe. We don't need long and confusing explanation of Caucasus being at the intersection of continents. This is a travel website, not a geographic manual. We should go with what's simple. Georgia's location to the east of Turkey is irrelevant; Moscow is farther east than Ankara.

P.S. I'm Russian and the Russian version of Wikivoyage has included Georgia under Easter Europe for many years and no one seems to have objected.--Polinarok (talk) 23:32, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

The Russian Wikivoyage has Georgia breadcrumbed as part of the Caucasus. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 00:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Maybe in everyday use in Russia, in spite of what ARR8 points out above, Georgia is considered to be in Eastern Europe, but name a country in the West that so considers it. People who have no idea where the Caucasus are also have no idea where Georgia is, so I think we can dismiss that concern and show them where it is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:34, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree with that conclusion. For some more context, I don't know about colloquial speech in Russia, but Georgia and the Caucasus are almost always mentioned in the same breath in Russian media and in the Russian diaspora - not that, ultimately, the behavior of Russian speakers matters to the Georgians for how they prefer to classify themselves. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 00:46, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the Russian site has Georgia breadcrumbed under Caucasus but it also clearly says Eastern Europe in the text. Also, the Caucasus page itself says it's Eastern Europe.

In the West, calling Georgia Eastern Europe makes more sense than calling it Caucasus because people at least have some vague associations with Eastern Europe, i.e. being former USSR or bordering Russia. Caucasus means close to nothing. Only Russians and other fellow ex-USSR nations would be familiar with it.--Polinarok (talk) 03:24, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

You've expressed your views clearly, and I appreciate that, but neither of us agree with you, so you'd have to persuade a consensus of other people in order to state this in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Western Europeans at least do know where Caucasus is, and that Georgia is located there. Caucasus, in turn, can be regarded as part of either Europe or Asia, and at least the mountain range is according to Wikipedia "today accepted by the majority of scholars as being part of Asia". ϒψιλον (talk) 05:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Even if it were true that Westerners don't know where the Caucasus is, it would still be irrelevant. We at Wikivoyage are not in the business of dumbing things down to pander to the most ignorant of our readers. They're big boys and girls. If they read a phrase like "Georgia is located in the Caucasus" and don't know what it means, they can look it up. We even have an article on the Caucasus, to which we presumably link from the Georgia article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:55, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Re-opening after COVID

Georgia will reopen for international tourism on July 1 Pashley (talk) 12:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Georgian cuisine article?

I just checked out a helpful edit by an IP user improving the article's Eat section. And I noticed the section is quite long with a lot of photos (a little too many of them in an article not specifically about a cuisine) so perhaps its time to split out a separate Georgian cuisine article. Also, German Wikivoyage has a well-developed article about Georgian cuisine from where additional content could be translated and imported. --Ypsilon (talk) 17:04, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Support. Khachapuri rules. Ibaman (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Definitely. Georgian cuisine is delicious and was famous throughout the Soviet Union. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:19, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

It sure is, I've tried it a few times. :) --Ypsilon (talk) 17:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Georgian cuisine article translated from German! :) --Ypsilon (talk) 18:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Amazing work, Ypsilon! Does anyone have an idea, how we can make existing section smaller, so that editors are motivated to edit the full article Georgian cuisine? Soshial (talk) 03:41, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd say the lists of dishes, most photos, and maybe some of the Drink section needs to be moved and merged into the cuisine article. The country article should describe the Georgian cuisine from a general point of view, mentioning the most famous dishes (khinkali etc.). --Ypsilon (talk) 05:11, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd suppose it must be made real short for annoyingly many not to try to expand it. What needs to be said for those that won't click on the cuisine article? –LPfi (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

One can model the section after Eat sections in other country articles where the cuisine has its own article. Also, it's foremost the readers we're writing for, then comes the editors, so we shouldn't shorten it down to the extent that everyone will have to go to the cuisine article to get meaningful information (especially not information related to eating in the country in general). Ypsilon (talk) 09:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, true. Still, if we cannot maintain the guides properly because of editor mistakes, then that serves travellers badly. –LPfi (talk) 11:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps it is not sot much about what we include, but having a clear structure, which serves both groups. I don't know whether that is easy to achieve in this case. –LPfi (talk) 11:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

LGBT

I read some disturbing news on anti-HBTQ actions in Tblisi. What are the general feelings towards HBTQ people? Is there a risk for violence towards openly HBTQ travellers? In the street? In nightclubs? In dark alleys? –LPfi (talk) 17:38, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

HBTQ is apparently the Swedish version of LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning). I had to do a web search because I've never seen "H" as part of any expression about non-straight/cis people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:19, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

We 'omosexuals never use an 'H'. ;-) Ground Zero (talk) 19:31, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

:-) I meant any expression of initialisms. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for not checking. Yes, it's the Swedish initialism - I didn't think about Swedish at all, so didn't have my guard up. Fixed the heading. –LPfi (talk) 06:28, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: I added a section in the article. Feel free to improve it. Soshial (talk) 07:45, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Soshial. I did move things around and changed some wordings. I hope the changes were OK. –LPfi (talk) 06:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Border-run missing article

Been browsing Wikivoyage and noticed a "border-run" link in the Get in by car section. The page doesn't exist yet, should I make it, and if so what's the exact meaning of this? NotFireMan (talk) 23:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

There is an article named Visa run and border run with an overlapping subject, so I linked it. Please contribute there instead of starting a new article from scratch. Vidimian (talk) 00:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Car rental aggregators in "Get around"

Aggregators can't be listed per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to. Have we decided to make exceptions in this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

No, and they should be removed accordingly. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:45, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Done. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:46, 1 April 2024 (UTC)