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If you like it, then you shoulda put a ring star on it!

This is where we determine whether an article is ready to be classified as Star status. Even though the criteria are fairly objective, it's good to get some additional eyes to look over a page and confirm that it's ready before elevating it to Star. For reference, here's the general description, from Project:Article status:

The article is essentially complete. It meets all of the above criteria. It follows the manual of style exactly or is the exception that proves the rule. Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. It has appropriate illustrations, such as photos and a map. Enough breadth and depth of material is presented that anyone familiar with the subject of the article would have little to point out as absent. Future changes to this kind of article would reflect changes in the subject (e.g. a museum closes, a hotel price changes, a new airport is built) more than they'd require improvements in the coverage.

Objective criteria for Star status varies depending on the kind of article it is. For more concrete guidance on this, see:

If you feel that an article currently at Star status is no longer worthy, or never was to begin with, this is also the place to nominate to de-star an article.

NominateEdit

Star articles: Last minute checklist

  • The article must be complete — See definition above.
  • Grammar and spelling must be perfect — See definition above. Prose should be stylistically superior and effective.
  • Illustration: the article should be appropriately illustrated with pictures and a Wikivoyage-style map, with all attractions marked.
  • Listings should be in alphabetical order — geographical order is also acceptable if it is deemed better.
  • No duplications: a listing should appear under one section only — if there is ambiguity, put it under the section that it most applies to.
  • Time and date formats: Use: M, Tu, W, Th, F, Sa, Su; and check our manual of style for latest and complete policy
  • Section introductions are not mandatory but should be present when they serve to improve a section.
  • Use "—" (mdash) for breaks in thought.
  • Use abbreviations for addresses, e.g., St, Ave, Sq, Blvd

You can nominate any "guide" quality article you think is ready to be declared a "star". Please do not nominate an article if you know that it falls short of the criterion above — refer to the info box for a last minute checklist. If there are other nominations on this page, add yours to the bottom of the list. The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for,
plus a swell kitchen sink. ~~~~

Having done this, please add the {{starnomination}} tag at the beginning of the article, after the {{pagebanner}} tag.

You may also post a note at Requests for comment to publicize your nomination — remember to tell people that partial critiques and even just a few quick words of support are welcome. These steps help draw attention to the article's nomination, improving the discussion as to whether it should be awarded star status.

DiscussEdit

Please comment on whether you agree that the nominated article is ready, with a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion. If you think it's ready, a simple "Support" will do. If not, explain what you think is missing or not up to standards. You don't have to leave a detailed critique to vote on the star — partial critiques are welcome, and feel free to just voice your support for the hard work someone else has done.

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for, plus a swell kitchen sink.  TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (UTC)
* The sink isn't properly formatted, and there are no "budget" places to sleep. ~~~~

After three weeks of discussion, if a consensus is reached, then that article becomes a star, and the discussion should be archived. A consensus means that all outstanding objections should have been addressed and dropped; if issues remain then the discussion should be left open for two months to allow time to fix the article and reach a consensus. If the outstanding issues cannot or will not be addressed in reasonable time, the article should be added to the slush pile. Regardless of the outcome, it is useful to copy the nomination discussion to the article's talk page.

Successful nominationsEdit

  • Remove the nomination discussion from this page to Project:Star nominations/Archives
  • Copy the nomination discussion to the talk page of the new star article
  • Add the article to Star articles (and change the map on that page)
  • Remove starnomination template from article
  • Update the article status template on the article from guide to star
  • Add |star=yes to the Pagebanner at the top of the article (see also Template:Pagebanner if more than one icon is required)
  • If the article is currently being nominated at Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates, update the article status parameter in the nomination template.

Failed nominationsEdit

Articles should only be renominated when they address criticisms from the previous nomination.

Nominations for Star statusEdit

Number of articles currently in review: 7

For an archive of previous successful nominations please see Project:Star nominations/Archives.

Please add {{starnomination}} to the top of the article being nominated. This will add it to Category:Star article nominations.

Norfolk IslandEdit

This is an excellent article (OTBP in 2020) thanks to the work of a number of contributors. This is an opportunity for our first star-rated rural area article. I can't see that anything is missing, and it appears to have what is expected of a star article, though I may have missed something. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

  • Support - It looks nice to me, and if I ever go there, I don't think I'll be needing anything else apart from someone local to help me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:50, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
@SelfieCity: it's been 21 days now, and would that mean it's ready to be promoted to a star? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 03:57, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
You can't call 2 opinions a consensus. I'll try to look at this soon. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:00, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
Very true. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 04:01, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Nearly - It looks good but there are a few points that should be looked at. (It is usual for article to take 21+ weeks to get promoted on this page, and I would expect more opinions.) AlasdairW (talk) 22:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
    • The article should have a Covid box - at the moment visitors need to have a Travel Pass applied for 24-72 hours in advance.   Done (last verified 2021-08-20)
    • By plane need updating - Air New Zealand aren't flying until 30 August, with Quantas flying until then. Air Chatham have changed the days of flights.   Done (last verified 2021-08-20)
    • Visas and Immigration Control has "There are quarantine restrictions on the movement of many items of food, including meat and fresh fruit, between the island and the mainland. The restrictions are not the same in both directions." This needs expanding, or a link to an official site that says exactly what you can bring from Australia and (if different) from New Zealand.   Done (last verified 2021-09-14)
    • Understand should have something on the island's economy - how important is tourism to the island.  Done (last verified 2021-11-06)
    • By Taxi has phone numbers that need formatting, and Uber may now be on the island.   Done (last verified 2021-08-20)
    • There is nothing about the time zone.   Done (last verified 2021-08-20)
    • The governance changes in 2016 could be expanded upon, as the WP article suggests that this doesn't have local support.   Done (last verified 2021-08-20)
    • See and Do should be cross-checked with tourist info.
Uber isn't on Norfolk just yet per https://www.uber.com/global/en/cities/. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:18, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
  • SupportOppose in current state - The article is a very good guide article, but I don't think the article is comprehensive enough to be considered a star. I worked on the article in 2019 to get it ready for a front page feature. But that's 18 months ago, and I believe the list of what's open or what's now closed would need to be checked for each listing. I think the status descriptions have changed since 2019, as I thought there was comprehensive criteria for it to be a star. In any case AlasdairW comments above will help. I might find time to call the information centre this week to confirm what they mean about "a local Uber is available on request." Joshlama1 (talk) 09:53, 14 August 2021 (UTC), edit Joshlama1 (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into this. I wonder if "Uber" is being used as term for bookable taxi, like "Hoover" for vacuum cleaner. AlasdairW (talk) 22:07, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Called them today, they have one "taxi service" and got their details and website. Uber is used in this case as a "bookable taxi." I'm not sure if it should be changed to "By Taxi" or "by rideshare".
I also asked them about "Democracy and independence movements" on the island in which she mentioned that it's something that tourists do ask about and are interested in. There are some locations now on the island which incorporate those protests. Should they be added? Joshlama1 (talk) 04:20, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand why it has a currency box though. It's still administered under NSW, and while it's mostly self governing, that can be found at Australia#Buy. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC
Should we remove it and direct users to the Australia article for currency information? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:57, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
I think it makes sense to keep some currency information in the article. Norfolk may be administered as part of NSW, but it's 1000 miles east of the Australian mainland and is reachable by air and ship without passing through Australia. Plus, the article says "Travel between mainland Australia and Norfolk Island is domestic travel, but flights leave from the international terminals in Sydney and Brisbane." meaning that even Australian citizens have to show their passport in order to visit. All this indicates to me that Norfolk is a different destination from the rest of NSW from a travel perspective.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
I think the currency box should be removed, but keep "Norfolk Island only uses the Australian dollar.". Norfolk Island is sufficently close to New Zealand that it wouldn't have been surprising if both AU$ and NZ$ were accepted. AlasdairW (talk) 20:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
NFI isn't one of those currencies accepting foreign currency. Other countries in Melanesia like PNG, the Solomon Islands or NC accept A$, but not NFI. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:38, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Keeping the currency box costs nothing, does no harm, and may save someone a few extra taps or clicks getting to the Australia article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:22, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Given that all the issues brought up have been fixed, upgrade? Also regarding the COVID box, that's not really a valid reason to oppose, given that Covid boxes go out of date really easily. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:26, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
Two things, some places like the pharmacy and Sunday market lack coords. Also what is Bush walking, could you add a description for that section as I’m unaware of that phrase as a non Australian. Tai123.123 (talk) 06:00, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Usually the Sunday markets are usually put up and taken down when its not a Sunday. Hence putting coords will go out of date in one week. And bushwalking is hiking in the bush, but the definition should ideally go to Australia#Do. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:41, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand. The article says they are held at next to the tourist information centre, which will presumably not move around, I assume the same place is used, more or less, and having coords for a market off by 50 m is hardly a catastrophe. –LPfi (talk) 11:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure about how it is in NFI, but usually in Sydney, the Sunday markets often move around (except this is at a mass scale (probably 500m?). Although I'm not sure about the current situation in Sydney as well, given its been years since I last visited a Sunday market. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:17, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
  Done Doing some further research, it seems not. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
The Norfolk mall is mentioned in the bbq eat section but not listed under buy Tai123.123 (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
WV:Boring. Shopping malls are usually the equivalent of a streetside couple of shops. No interest to travellers. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:16, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
could you add a marker to it in the prose of the BBQ section so people know were to find it? Tai123.123 (talk) 00:15, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
The BBQ section shouldn't have a marker since the mall is not the only place you'll find it (it's pretty easy to find one in Australia). And for the self catering, same thing. Maybe @Joshlama1: is a better person to ask. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:23, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
the way I interpreted that sentence was the mall was the only place to self-cater perhaps change the wording Tai123.123 (talk) 00:27, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm actually also confused on the mall as well. I interpret that there's self-catering options everywhere but that's the only self catering service mentioned. That's a question to ask Joshlama1 I guess. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi everyone (@SHB2000, @Tai123.123), didn't realise I was called in for this page. I think the Self-Catering & BBQ lines were there before I even joined WikiVoyage.
Norfolk mall is mentioned as it's the only mall on the island, which I don't think it counts for WV:Boring. Note that the article puts markers for individual shops and not for the mall itself.
There are public BBQ's available (and are so old that you need to BYO coals) but I wouldn't know exactly where they are located. Self-Catering is mentioned because with the number of flights going to and from the island is comparatively 'rare', it's likely that you'll be on the island for at least 5 nights. When you add just a mid-range lunch and dinner each day, because there's only one budget option available, the cost is going to add up for some travelers. So I would appeal to Ttcf rather than Boring.
Getting to Tai's point, there two other options than the mall in which you can buy fresh produce daily, with one of them listed under Buy#Supplies.I could list the other (Slick & Sons - Butcher which also sells fresh produce) and refer Self-Cater to this section of the article. Or move Supplies to Eat#Budget of the article. Joshlama1 (talk) 06:13, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Okay, so if this seems the case, upgrade to star? SelfieCity? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Well this hasn't made it to the article yet:
  • Understand should have something on the island's economy - how important is tourism to the island.
I think once the above has been done, and this discrepancy about where the Mall should go, I would change my vote to Star. Joshlama1 (talk) 06:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Star articles should be of impeccable style, in addition to everything else. I made some quick edits that suggest to me, along with this sentence - "The first known settlers in Norfolk Island were East Polynesians, but appear to have already departed when Captain Cook found the island." - that I wouldn't be satisfied with voting for this article without going through it with a fine-toothed comb and editing as warranted. (I would edit the quoted sentence to read: "The first known settlers in Norfolk Island were East Polynesians, but it seems that they had already departed before Captain Cook found the island.") Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:54, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
Oppose for now, until I have the chance to look through the entire article with a fine-toothed comb and edit it as necessary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:29, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
I did some more edits in "Understand." Question: approximately when is Queensland expected to start providing state health and educational services to the island? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:17, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
According to this, it's January 1 2022. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Great. That info should be included, even if it were only because the question is suggested in the copy. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:21, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek:   Done. See Special:Diff/4323925 (it should also automatically change from future to past tense after 01/01) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:24, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I know I voted support earlier, but I'm now going to vote hold it. I just noticed there's little information about Phillip Island and some of the walks in the national park. Will resupport when I finish that. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Given the last update was January 2022, and it is now September, best now to sweep the discussion for the time being and come back once people have had a chance to review the article again. Joshlama1 (talk) 02:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

OK --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:44, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Portuguese phrasebookEdit

I believe that the Portuguese phrasebook is poised to be our second Star phrasebook after the Russian phrasebook. Every word and phrase from the Wikivoyage:Quick phrasebook article template has been translated and is accompanied by pronunciation help using three methods: 1) standard/required Wikivoyage pseudo-phoneticization, 2) IPA, and 3) audio files (via Lingua Libre / Wikimedia Commons). If there are any deficiencies that I haven't already spotted and corrected, they will be quick fixes once identified. --Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 01:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Close while it LGTM, some of it is written from a speaker who'd use en-US rather than just English in general. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:52, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
    I can't help it. I was born this way. 😆 Do you have some specific examples that I should tackle? Cheers! (or did I just go too British there?) Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 02:05, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
    Yeah, I've done something similar in Driving in New Caledonia where it's wholly written from an Australian perspective (with the drive on the right being over-exaggerated). But to the phrasebook, mainly spellings and the time and date section, but I'll fix that up. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:08, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
      Done. Agora Suporte. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Is having a separate audio file for each word the standard approach? Having to play 6 separate clips to ask "Where is the toilet?" is not very useful if the reader just expects to click play on their phone when in need. I see that some later phrases are a single clip. AlasdairW (talk) 21:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
    That's a fair point. When I started adding audio, I used files available on Commons, which were all seperate words. After a while, I decided to fill the gap myself for the many missing words by recording the missing words and phrases myself (via Lingua Libre, which exports to Commons). I think I should go back and record the ones where there are separate word clips to "build" a phrase. Thanks for the push; this was nagging the back of my mind! Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 22:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
      Done Any entries left with multiple audio files are alternative translations or gender differences. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Not yet - Where's the grammar section? The Russian phrasebook has one, as do Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish, French (pretty good, if I say so myself)... For Portuguese, it doesn't need to be exhaustive, university-level stuff, but should probably cover noun gender, articles, basic verb conjugation (mainly present tense), "you", and anything else Nelson or other speakers think is fundamental to know. The Brazilian phrasebook also has an infobox about nasal sounds; should that be copied and adapted? I would also like to see the addition of at least 10-15 photos given the length of the article, although these can be added as and when quality appropriate images are found. Credit where it's due, the comprehensive use of audio files is an excellent feature, and I hope we can roll this out onto other phrasebooks soon.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
    I intentionally left out grammar based on the second paragraph of Phrasebooks and Wikivoyage:Quick phrasebook article template, but I'll work on covering the topics you mentioned. The Brazilian phrasebook was actually a fork from Portuguese (or vice versa) due to overwhelming differences in pronunciation and some grammar (much greater than UK English vs US English). I'll see if some elements can be added back. Russian has only two images: the language map (which Portuguese has) and an alphabet chart (unneeded since Portuguese uses the Latin alphabet). Based on this, I didn't add images, but I agree that the article looks uninteresting and sparse without them, so I'll add some. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
    @ThunderingTyphoons!, I've gone ahead and implemented your suggestions. I look forward to reading your feedback. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Great work, as ever, and quick too. As someone with knowledge of other Romance languages, all the basic grammar makes sense to me, but as it's well explained it would also work for a general audience.
There are some minor changes I made myself. One thing I thought I'd run by you is whether you'd consider removing vos from the conjugation tables, particularly as its entries are crossed out anyway. Another, related, thing was whether it would make more sense to separate "he/she" from "you"; even though they're the same conjugation in Portuguese, "he/she/you sing(s)" strikes me as potentially confusing for English speakers without experience of learning other languages, but who still remember the person distinction from English class. "Você" and "vocês" would thus get their own lines in each table, and "vos" would come out altogether. You could still keep the sentence about "vos" if you think it's important, though I doubt the vast majority of travellers would encounter that word at all.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
Also, there'll probably be other aspects of the 'pronunciation' section that I'll end up questioning due to accent differences, but just for starters, and as a reminder for myself: "é : long sound as the 'e' in "bled" / ê : similar to the 'ea' in "bread"" makes little sense to me, as "bled" and "bread" rhyme in my accent. Do é and ê make the same sound, or different? It doesn't help that IPA is missing from the vowels and diphthongs/triphthongs sections, but present in the 'consonants' section (where arguably they're needed least).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your great suggestions, which are not nitpicky at all, as you stated in one of your edit comments. I want to build WV's best phrasebook and really earn that star. I have implemented your recommendations. If you find anything else that could use improvement, no matter how seemingly minor, lay it on me. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 20:24, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Olá, @Sanjorgepinho:. As far as I know, you are the only native speaker of European Portuguese who has contributed to Wikivoyage recently. If you have time and willingness, I would appreciate your feedback on Portuguese phrasebook. I nominated it for Star status, and I want to make sure it's as good as it can be. Obrigado! --Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 08:51, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Ibaman:, although they speak Brazilian Portuguese, they might still know the differences between the two. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:09, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks for remembering me, gajos. Right now, I don't really have the time or ability to be of much help here... European Portuguese is still somewhat complicated to me. But I promise I'll check out this article and help improve it. Ibaman (talk) 14:28, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
    @Ibaman: Regarding this diff, rr and word-initial r are impossible to represent accurately using English spelling. Although = "hum" might be a close approximation for PT-BR, it is too far from PT-PT to be of use to the traveller. No flavor of r/rr in PT-PT sounds like EN "h". Maybe "rum" was a poor choice on my part. Perhaps "run" is marginally better, but combine with the ã, and there is no way no how we will ever be able be able to produce a close-enough rendering of the word using EN, which is why I added IPA and recorded sound clips throughout the Phrase list section. (I added your Nasal vowels infobox based on the recent suggestion from ThunderingTyphoons above.) Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 01:00, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
    Also pinging @DARIO SEVERI: the only admin of pt.voy that I know of. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:16, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
Olá @Nelson Ricardo : I've already taken a look at the link and although I'm not the best person to rate it, it seems fine to me. The little time I have doesn't help either. Despite that, I spent my vacation taking pictures to help improve some destinations on Wikivoyage. Sanjorgepinho (talk) 21:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC) Sanjorgepinho (talk) 22:45, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
  • yeah, I was once an admin there, together with Dario, but now I concentrate here fully. I hope he joins this discussion.

More importantly, copying here what I wrote on Talk:Brazilian Portuguese phrasebook: "Just for the record, as I'm working to complete the phonetic bits of this article, I have made some decisions that I'd rather explain for clarity and comment. Whenever I must choose between "what's more sonically natural for the language" and "what would be easier for Anglophones to pronounce and be understood, even if retaining some of their natural accent", I will follow the latter. I'm trying as well to insert as much "tutorial" words, chosen for importance to the traveller's daily needs, sound and meaning, as possible. This is, by the way, the logic behind the (maybe mysterious) inclusion of that long list of names; IMHO every one of them is a good pronunciation tutorial for acquiring the language's sound and articulation." This approach complies with WV:Tone and WV:fun which are very important guidelines for my work on this travel guide, which I try to always follow.

As I can see, the PT-PT phrasebook is aiming at a different objective. Let's not exchange the usual bad jokes of cultural abyss between PT-BR and PT-PT. I would only suggest that I consider my approach better suited for the needs of a travel guide. Ibaman (talk) 12:24, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Hi @SHB2000:, well ... I am sysop on Wikivoyage-pt but I am italian, I can speak Portuguese quite well but it is not my mother tongue. I prefer it to be done by someone who knows the language better. DARIO SEVERI (talk) 12:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
    Why is there no native pt-PT speakers here apart from Sangorgepinho who's been on a break? I guess most Portuguese Portuguese here speakers are from elsewhere? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:29, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
Stereotypically, the Brazilians are indeed known as more fun and outgoing, whereas the Portuguese are known as reserved yet friendly. Not surprising that the pt-br phrasebook has a different tone from pt-pt. I'll take a closer look at pt-br to see if I can borrow any more concepts from there. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 16:43, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
@Nelson Ricardo 2500: How about asking @FilipeFalcão:, who did about half the recordings here? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
He's been inactive since Jan '19, https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=FilipeFalc%C3%A3o. (Note to other contributors: I used Felipe's recordings in the destination articles, as he recorded the pronunciations for every municipality in Portugal. His files are not in the phrasebook under discussion.) Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 02:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
How about asking @Felipe da Fonseca:? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
I wouldn't be a great judge of pt-br or en-au, so I wouldn't ask a Brazilian to review a European Portuguese phrasebook nor an Australian to review an American English slang list. Also, Felipe has never participated on enWV, except when requested to do so on the Pub. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 19:56, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
re the Aus to US, I'm quite familiar with American slang but it's not the same with British. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:48, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

After two months, nearly all the issues have been fixed by Nelson Ricardo 2500. Promote? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:42, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

I think this is just about at star level. I have a couple of comments: First, I just added a thread to the phrasebook's talk page because "ai" as in "Renaissance" is an "uh" sound to me when I'm speaking English. I also find that pseudo-pronunciations of nasalized diphthongs that look like "ahny" and "uhnw" appear polysyllabic to this English-speaker, but their weird appearance could be remedied if sound samples could be provided for the diphthongs as they are provided for vowels and consonants. If those things are done, I think it will be a star article, with the caveat that I have good conversational and reading command of French and Italian when I'm in practice but don't know Portuguese. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek, I don't think recordings of those sounds exist, so I'll try working on them by this weekend or earlier. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 18:40, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
Awesome! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:05, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── It's almost three months, and all concerns raised have been fixed. I'd support upgrading now, but I'd leave it to Nelson Ricardo 2500 to do that given they wrote most of the article + numerous audio recordings. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:33, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

I think we can wait for the recordings of diphthongs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
  Done --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, and I now support the nomination. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
This nomination has been here for almost nine months, and since all issues have been addressed by Nelson, are there any objections before I promote this nomination that has been quietly sitting for months? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:54, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, @SHB2000! I've just made some improvements to the placement of audio files, as this has been bugging me. I am unaware of any objections or unimplemented suggestions remaining. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 20:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
ThunderingTyphoons!, do you have any remaining concerns about the article, or can it be promoted to star now? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the prompt, Ikan Kekek. I have spent some more time going through the phrasebook, while waiting for a delayed flight in BER and now today in the Hampshire sun.
The pronunciation section doesn't mention that the vowel O often sounds like "oo" / a short "u" at the end of a word. The section mentions the sound often "reduces" following a T or D, but the "oo" sound seems to be fairly constant at the end of words, with the exception of nasal "ão".
Why is a conjugation table needed for the verb pôr? The word doesn't appear once as an infinitive or in any of its present-tense conjugated forms in the rest of the phrasebook. The tables for ser, estar and ter are justified by those verbs' importance, but what about pôr?
I couldn't see whether you'd noted that it's possible to drop the subject prounoun before the verb, as in Italian or Spanish, but unlike French (or English). There are examples of this in the phrases, but a short explanation would be handy.
It might be a matter of taste, but I think the eating section could do with a lot more example foodstuffs, particularly fruits, vegetables and seafood. The sentence "I'd like to reserve a table." would be a useful addition, and not just to the PT phrasebook.
I also have some issues with the illogical order of some of the sections, but as that's a guideline issue, I'm better off bringing it up on the phrasebook template.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!, thank you for the fixes and the suggestions, which I have now put in place. Let me know if I'm missing any of your favo(u)rite foods. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 17:16, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Looks great! Probably time to make it a  , then. I'll tell you in September after I visit the Algarve if there are any favourite foods missing.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Suporte: @Nelson Ricardo 2500:, I deeply regret I haven't seen this nomination until just now. I don't really follow WikiVoyage too closely anymore, but when I happened to stumble upon this thread, I couldn't leave without pausing to add my thoughts, especially since (apparently) I'm one of a very small cohort of Continental Portuguese-speakers on English WikiVoyage. I deeply salute your work and what a magnificent resource this page has become! It is well-organized, comprehensive and extremely easy to follow; it's hard to imagine any Anglophone tourist without prior experience around spoken Portuguese not finding it to be an invaluable aid to their ability to understand what's said to them and be understood themselves. I see no reason why this nomination shouldn't have been concluded with the granting of the star going back to last November, and can't help but feel frustrated that your labors have been met with what must feel like endless indecision.

We would seem to have a fair amount in common as I'm also a first-generation Portuguese-American on my father's side and, as often begets the oldest child of an oldest child, grew up surrounded by tios, tias, avós and bisavós (uncles, aunts, grandparents and great-grandparents) that never learned English beyond the bare minimum required to pay the corner grocer and deposit their paychecks at the credit union. Growing up I was often teased by family members that my birth was less the result of romance or even a desire for offspring/an heir than the search for cheap translation services. 😐 In that regard they got their money's worth and I still feel mostly comfortable conversing in Portuguese when the need arises, though that's quite rare since my vovó (grandmother) passed away in 2015. Candidly, though, speaking Portuguese has never been something I've been very confident of overall since all my exposure has been strictly verbal (not to mention limited to a small sample of native speakers who hail from an isolated area (Almagreira, na ilha de Santa Maria, Açores) of an island notorious for its unique dialect! I only bring it up because while there were a few phrases on the page that I'd always heard expressed using different vocabulary, I nevertheless found everything currently there perfectly understandable, and can easily chalk up any variance to my own limited exposure.

Feel free to ping me on my talk page if you ever need assistance with anything here or elsewhere in the Wikimedia-verse; what I lack in authority within the pecking order here I believe I more than make up for in my Portuguese workaholism and enjoyment of repetitive tasks! Best wishes to you and I hope this well-deserved star as well as the Featured Topic status get awarded without further delay. 🐈ogueScholar🗨Talk (My recent mischief) 23:56, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Mungo National ParkEdit

I'm kinda biased because I wrote more than 99% of the content here, but I think it's well and ready for star. But here's a checklist, using 82.3.185.12's table format:

Requirements Done? Guidelines Done?
Tourist-style map   Done Meets all of the criteria in the "Requirements" section   Done
Listings match the manual of style   Done Perfect spelling and grammar   Done – uses Australian Spelling and English. Doesn't look done to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:13, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
District articles are at least "Guide" status N/A Wikivoyage-style map (static + dynamic)   Done and   Done
Prose near-perfect, and tight, effective, and enjoyable.   Done (?) Listings in alphabetical order or geographical order   Done
Photos   Done – I'd love to include one or two more, but couldn't find anymore on Commons No duplicated listings   Done
Time and dates formatted correctly   Done
Section introductions (optional)   Done
Abbreviations used in street names   Done, except for "track", because there's no abbreviation for it.


The only thing that's missing is a static map, and there's two reasons for that:

  1. I'm not an Inkscape expert, but if someone knows how to do it, it'd be well appreciated
  2. While I did mention that it'd be well appreciated, some of the trails in the park are not actually within within the park, but it's still covered under the park's website, and this could make it confusing.

The article follows most formats off Zion National Park, and Yosemite National Park, and there is one additional thing that this article has but no other park article has – and that is that walking trails are on the dynamic map. With all this, it's why I think this article is essentially complete.

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

After a quick glance, I think the prose should be checked. There are constructs I find odd, and I think it could be made tighter at places without losing enjoyability. –LPfi (talk) 18:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
There could be some more details in Fees and permits. Are you allowed to deviate from trails and tracks? I suppose you shouldn't pick souvenirs, but that should probably be pointed out. What about cooking etc.? One campsite is said to have "good facilities [...] including toilets. Does that mean you don't have toilets in the other one? –LPfi (talk) 18:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Generally not every campsite in NSW has toilets, and sometimes you have to do it in the bush. Both these have toilets, and it has been mentioned, and have included info of being able to deviate from trails and tracks in the get around section. Will do the prose soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@LPfi: Have included about cooking facilities under the sleep section. Will do prose soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Have now checked the prose and did some copyedits. Is there any particular places that need a prose check? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:40, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I think the lead needs a prose check – I find the first paragraph confusing and difficult to follow, and the other paragraphs could probably use to be tightened up too. The details about the whereabouts of Mungo Lady and Mungo Man should probably be relegated to "Understand" since travellers can't see them anyway. Overall, it looks like a good article, with a lot of detail. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:03, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
    Have moved Mungo Man and Lady. Will do more prose checks soon. Thanks for the feedback :-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I’ll take a look at the prose per discussion, but from an overview I’d lean toward supporting promoting this article to star status. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:36, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
    "Located in the southern parts of the outback in New South Wales, the park is part of the Willandra Lakes region; a UNESCO mixed world heritage site – and one of only four in Australia, home to some of the world's oldest remains of modern human bodies outside Africa as well as the world's oldest cremated body; Mungo Lady and Mungo Man, making this place both naturally and culturally significant."
    Is this park or the Williandra Lakes the UNESCO site? Maybe this sentence should be split in two. That's something I noticed earlier in the article. Otherwise I like the writing style of this article. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 21:52, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
    @SelfieCity The Willandra Lakes Region is the UNESCO WHS. (the extraregion needs some tender loving care, but I'll try and and work on that soon). Maybe I should rewrite that to say "the park is part of the Willandra Lakes World Heritage Area; a mixed world heritage site". Does that make it more clearer? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:39, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
    Yeah. This might be an American punctuation style, but I more often see "Heritage Area, a mixed" with a comma and not a semicolon. In Australia do you use a semicolon there? --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 12:44, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
    Both are commonly used here. I usually have no preference for either to be fair. But I'll change it to a comma because it's pretty easy to find American English being used here, and I can only say there's a growing tendency to use US English here as well as for our US readers. (A week back, had to sign a form and couldn't resist but noticing American spellings like authorize (although this is also used by Oxford), meters, center, traveling, and honor on it. At least they spelled program the Australian way and not the British way) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:55, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
    Haha. I'm not concerned, only for consistency. I changed a couple to commas but as I saw more, I started to think it was a regional difference in punctuation. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 13:55, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
    I've just changed some of those into commas and think I've done most of them, though I may have forgotten some. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:57, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
    As it's more than two months, if there's no objections, I'm upgrading this article tomorrow. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm going through the text intermittently, and will continue to do so. Is there an issue with the dynamic map? I can only see one of the trails that are in the key.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:35, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
You might need to zoom into the others, but all of them appear on desktop. I'll check on mobile soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:37, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Just to confirm, I can see these trails on desktop mode.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:49, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Please hold off on starring to givef me a chance to read the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Okay, sure. I'll hold it until at least next week. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:56, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
I had a look at it and the reason why you can only see the red line is probably because you can't zoom on mobile. As the other trails are much shorter than the 70 kilometre loop, with most of them hidden behind the visitor centre/woolshed marker. The blue one on the east should also be visible, but it may be small to see. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:19, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
OK, not yet. I have made these edits so far, and I'm not even through "Understand" yet. Please check my edits to see if I introduced anything factually incorrect or stylistically improvable, but star articles have to have absolutely impeccable grammar and style, and the following question in hidden text has yet to be addressed: "What does "they" refer to- emus and roos?" Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:12, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm noticing redundancies like this: 'It's also possible to join the "Willandra Lakes guided tour" as well.' "As well" and "also" are synonymous. I also saw "there's" used for a plural subject. That may be common in Australia, but to this reader, it's not standard English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Apologies for that. I'll fix them just in a moment. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:25, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
I've removed 90% of those in the article. I might've missed one or two, so please let me know if I have missed any. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:03, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your copyedits :-). Nothing factually incorrect. I've just clarified the wildlife and the climate section so hope it's more clearer. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:23, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
  • First thing I noticed is that the map has several colour codes for features that do not appear to be shown on the map. On closer examination I found them hidden under the numbered markers. Do we usually just expect readers to know this?
  • Second thing ts that there is no immediately obvious graphical indication of where the park is relative to the rest of Australia. By zooming out a lot on the dynamic map the information can be found. Do the readers just know to do this? I would suggest a small static outline map of Australia with a dot to indicate the location of the park, possibly in the intro section.
  • Where does one get more information on Mungo man, Mungo lady, the local indigenes?
  • It's different during a total fire ban, but while you may be as far away from the greenery on the east coast, you haven't escaped fire. - what does this mean? Cheers,• • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:05, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
    Thanks for the feedback Peter :-). Well appreciated. I'll implement them. However, regarding "static outline map of Australia", I don't know how to make static maps, but I'll try and add more in the #Get in section. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
  • "And if you do have special dietary requirements, don't be too surprised to pay twice more than usual." Does this mean twice the usual price or three times the usual price or just a lot more than the usual price? • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:19, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
    Just a lot more than the usual price in the capital cities. I'll clarify that. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:25, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

As it is three months and three hours since I nominated this article for star, any last final objections before I upgrade it within the next twelve hours? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:56, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't support unless I look through the entire article with a fine-toothed comb. The writing style has to be completely free of grammatical, spelling, syntax and punctuation issues and just generally impeccable. So consider that an objection. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:28, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
In a very quick look, I found a long run-on sentence and several other things I corrected. No, not yet. I haven't made editing this article a priority, but that doesn't make it thereby a star article by default or something. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:32, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
You can also clearly see that Peter Southwood had objections above. You can't unilaterally declare a 12-hour deadline while ignoring the comments that didn't support the nomination. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:34, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I've already fixed those issues except the static map thing (which I can do by just downloading a freely licensed map from OSM). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
He has not passed judgment on whether you have and I voted "not yet" above, noting that I hadn't read past "Understand" or whatever and had already found a bunch of problems. And an article can't be a star because you promise to do something afterwards. Not yet, and that vote stands forever unless I change it. Star status is supposed to be extremely difficult to achieve. It's not owed to articles that are good and unpolished. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:58, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, but per policy, "the discussion should be left open for two months to allow time to fix the article and reach a consensus. If the outstanding issues cannot or will not be addressed in reasonable time, the article should be added to the slush pile. In this case, it is well over two months since the nomination. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:30, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Then maybe it has to be slushed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:19, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I was not pinged so did not notice there were changes. Will check now. • • • Peter (Southwood) < sup>(talk): 14:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Hard to identify the park (or anything else) on the static map in the "Get in" section. The map does not seem to serve a particularly useful purpose. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    If I'm not mistaken, static maps are no longer a requirement per Wikivoyage talk:Star articles#End requirement for static maps.. However, I tried to add a map adjusted to highlight the park sometime ago but I kept getting an error warning (I think I was triggering an abuse filter though I'm not exactly sure). Do you know of any way to prevent this from happening? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:40, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Lead opens with "No other national park in the Outback is comparable to Mungo National Park" Why? • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    This is quite a provocative statement and I think some explanation is due. If it is true, the potential visitor will want to know why, and there are so many possible reasons.• • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
    Done – Special:Diff/4413433. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
  • What is the origin of the name? • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    Fixed - named after the lake, but no idea where the lake got its name and not willing to go down that rabbit hole. Maybe someone will add it some day. I dont consider this an issue. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
    I added that it was named after Mungo Cathedral in Scotland, which I think was the name mentioned by my tour guide. I don't know where in Scotland though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:46, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
    See Glasgow#East_End. St Mungo (or St Kentigern) is buried in Glasgow Cathedral. Also see w:Saint Mungo. AlasdairW (talk) 23:04, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
    I've added it based on your comment, though please adjust anything if I've gotten anything wrong. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:18, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Mungo Park is not shown on the map in the "Go next" section, so it is not clear where it lies relative to the suggested destinations, maybe show the visitor centre. This would also serve to show where the park is in relation to the rest of Australia. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:09, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    @Pbsouthwood For this one, {{mapgroup}} used to show the shape, but there was some technical issue and the mapshapes stopped showing. I don't exactly know what happened for this one, but this discussion has a little bit of info. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:44, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
    It is so annoying when that sort of thing happens. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 12:14, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
    It is now showing in green. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
    Don't exactly know what's happening with that template. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
  • I don't know what this (in "Go next") means: - "you'll have to redo the 70 km (43 mi) if you already did this loop." • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:09, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    @Pbsouthwood (apologies for the late reply. completely forgot about this) I've clarified it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
  • I think that the normal scope for "civilisation" does not reach back as far as 40000 years. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 13:14, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
    and have edited accordingly. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 13:49, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
    @Pbsouthwood Not sure how to adjust that. In Australia, it's wildly regarded that at over 65000 years old, Indigenous Australian civilisation is the world's oldest continually living civilisation which is 25 thousand more than 40000. It's a commonality within most Australian articles, so this is not a standalone. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
    I would not have questioned culture, but to me civilisation implies citizens, and usually a load of baggage the original Australians may have managed to avoid. Anyway, I am not an anthropologist or a historian, and it is an Australian article, so no worries, mate, go with Australian usage. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 12:09, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
    I would want to try and use what most people understand though, though I do understand that this one could be a controversial one (as they did not have buildings, farms or and not the European "civilised") SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:17, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
    Then maybe just go with "culture" rather than "civilisation". I don't think many would argue that the indigenous culture has not existed continuously for a remarkably long time. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 12:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
    Done. Now the only uses of "civilisation" in the article should only be when referring to modern human development. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:33, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
    Using this as a checklist for myself, to see what's left, here's the following left:
    • Copyedits – which Ikan will do with their fine-toothed comb
    • A static map showing where the park is in relation to Australia
    I'm not so sure about the second one though. Australia is quite large, that I feel just a point to the park might be too broad because it could really mean anywhere in that area (because 100 km looks small on a map with the entire Australia in it). If anything, I would prefer a map of it with just the state of New South Wales, but my skills of making static maps are nearly non-existant and static maps are not required to serve in star articles. Similarly, I tried to do that again recently, but with the south-eastern states and for some reason, only a third of the map appeared in this file. If someone can help me with a map, it would be appreciated. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
    The best way when the general area isn't too well-known (I wouldn't recognise NSW) is to have a small map of the continent in a corner, with the area shown in the rest of the map highlighted (something like those in Locator maps of New South Wales). You'd need to know how to glue such a small-scale map to the map proper. –LPfi (talk) 11:25, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
I will edit this article with a fine-toothed comb if I feel motivated to do so; it's only fair for me to say that I don't feel under any obligation to do so, and I hope that doesn't come off as unfriendly. As long as any article isn't impeccable in writing mechanics and style, it isn't a star article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
I understand and there's no rush. The article isn't going anywhere, and so are we. The sole reason why I made that list is because the "what to do" is now all over the place (but that's what happens when you get long discussions). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:33, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
What IK means is that he might not do that at all, and unless somebody does, this won't be a star article. Saying "Perfect spelling and grammar {{done}}" and "Prose near-perfect, and tight, effective, and enjoyable. {{done}}" at nomination was obviously a mistake. Those "dones" should be removed, and reinserted only when somebody who feels qualified to judge has done the thorough check, or we get consensus on it, when several people have done the check without feeling like making the judgement on their own. –LPfi (talk) 09:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

SpaceEdit

As a main contributor to the article, I think that this article is pretty complete. A lot of stuff has been changed because of the place's novelty, but the article tries to adhere to Wikivoyage's standard as much as possible. Enjoy. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:43, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Needs (a considerable amount) of work. First of all, I'll start of commenting that I'm a space buff myself, so it's definitely an interesting read and I cannot see anything major missing but only in the understand or talk section. The "Get in" is also looking good, though it could be improved, and there could be more listings added since there's barely any in Russia or China mentioned.
Now it's also worth noting that this article was slushed not that long ago (November 2021). The prime issues is it's way to western or even just US-centric. The fact that India doesn't receive a single mention outside Get in is seriously concerning considering the fact that India has the fourth largest space industry in the world.
Combining the above with the fact that many countries with space organisations have little or no mention, I also feel the museums section should also try to cover museums all around the world – right now, we have the same western-centric list.
On top of that, if I'm not mistaken, all articles breadcrumbed under star articles must be guide status. Right now, Astronomy and the moon are only usable articles, and many other space related articles like Space flight sites, Astrotourism in Australia or Dark Sky Parks in the United States are also only at usable. So until all of this is fixed, I won't support starring space.
On the flipside to all my negativity, I'm happy to help out – this is one of my subjects of interest, and I will see if I might add any museums, launch sites etc when I don't have anything productive to do. Right now, I'm a bit carried away with the districts of Canberra but I can assure you I'll do a little bit of the work. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:52, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I still think that actual space tourism and Earth-bound attractions about space are strange bedfellows in a single article, and especially if lots of new museums and launch sites get added (which would be great), this should be split into two.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:38, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
SHB2000, thanks a lot for your feedback! Certainly the article need to get de-United States-focused, but I don't understand what "breadcrumbed" mean. Other than that, I will try to fix them as much as possible. As for ThunderingTyphoons!, yes we do have an article for that named Space flight sites. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Breadcrumb is just a Wikivoyage jargon for "categorised". SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:05, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Ah lol! Anyways, these daughter articles are now being under Space, and the article itself is placed at travel topic. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:06, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
SHB2000, I think I have solved your raised issues by... dodging it to spaceflight sites :D The article now does not look complete, so there's still a lot of work to do. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 01:39, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Given the concerns that have been raised in this discussion, I suggest we slush this star nomination for now, with the note that we can reconsider it at a later time. I strongly doubt the current nomination will receive sufficient support for the article to be promoted to star status. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:49, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
    I was going to oppose slushing given how much work CactiStaccingCrane has put into this article, but I relooked at the article and sadly have to agree. The issues that pertained to why the FTT nomination was slushed still sadly exist – namely, it's still Western-centric at best, and US-centric at worst. I might add some more space centres and spaceflight sites, but I don't understand Chinese characters or Cyrillic to be able to add more listings from Russia and China. I might however, be able to add some sights from India though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:17, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
    Given it's been 1.5 months since SelfieCity's comment, shall we finally slush this? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
    I maintain the view of my previous post. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 19:35, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Canberra/ActonEdit

Can't think of anything that'll significantly improve this article. Maybe a few copyedits, but apart from that, I believe it's complete. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

I've also deliberately left out chains such as Domino's, Chatime, Zambrero or 85C per Wikivoyage:Boring, if anyone's wondering. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:18, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Remember, a star article also has to be impeccable in writing style. It's very hard to get to star status. Here's the first paragraph:
"Acton is a small affluent suburb west of Civic and is Canberra's university district, with the Australian National University taking up most of Acton. Right next to the ANU is the Australian National Botanic Gardens containing one of the most diverse ranges of Australian flora, and places that can make you feel you're in the middle of either the Wet Tropics of Queensland or the Tasmanian Wilderness albeit it just two kilometres from the city!"
I'd never call that bad or unacceptable or anything like that, but I don't find it impeccable. This might not be impeccable, either, but it's my attempt at an edit:
Acton is a small, affluent suburb west of Civic. It is known as Canberra's university district, since the Australian National University comprises most of its area. The Australian National Botanic Gardens, right next to the ANU, contain such a diversity of Australian flora that you will feel like you're in the middle of the Wet Tropics of Queensland or the Tasmanian Wilderness, even though you are just two kilometres from the city!
I feel like I could go through the whole article and edit it with a fine-toothed comb. Anyway, I think it is not yet at star level, and that's no insult whatsoever. I will probably find time to look through more of it some time in the next couple of weeks (no promises, though). Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:20, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi Ikan, thanks for the feedback. I'm aware that star articles need to be perfect, and that's why we even have the vigorous process ;-). A lot of the content in the article is content that's been moved from Canberra so I might've dismissed it while proofreading it, though I did a proofread through the content. But thanks for the copyedits though.
On another note, I'm just wondering whether you find the bus line that's marked on the dynamic map distracting? I've been commenting out transport lines on district articles recently (as you probably noticed my edit on Manhattan/Financial District), but I sort of wanted the bus line marked, so I traced the bus route myself so the grey dots don't appear. Do you find that line distracting, or would you say that line can stay? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:21, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
How many bus lines are shown, and in what color(s)? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Just the one bus line that's coloured in red (in ca0707). If you click on the bus line it should display "ACTION bus route 53". SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
In the thumbnail in the article, that looks to be outside of the district. The thinner blue and green lines looked more likely to be bus routes to me. I see the bus line much more distinctly when I blow the map up to a full page. Are the other colored lines in the district all footpaths? It looks like they are, and I have to zoom in further to see that. Clicking the bus line isn't producing the route name or number, which I don't seem to see regardless of the degree of magnification. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 
A view of ACTION bus line 53 on SHB2000's screen on June 27, 2022, 09:35 (UTC+10)
That's strange. When I click the bus line, what you see on the right is what appears on my screen. As for the other thinner tracks, they are bushwalking trails inside the Black Mountain Nature Reserve. It's not a full list though; only the trails that were available on OSM were included. I did find various maps of other trails, but I'm not sure whether they're freely licensed and are compatible with Wikivoyage:Copyleft so I've deliberately omitted them just to be on the safe side. I'll clarify in the article what those other colored lines mean. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Just another remark by me (the nominator), but I do hope that this article sets a good precedent on how university articles should look like so we never have a University College Dublin situation again. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Canberra/HallEdit

Time for another Childs-like star nomination. It's essentially complete, has a static map and has everything needed for a star article. It doesn't have an understand section, but city-districts don't usually have understand sections but I'm willing to add one if deemed necessary. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:34, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

  • Support - my kind of article; short and sweet, and focusing on a small town. I don't think it needs an 'Understand', unless there's some interesting history that couldn't fit elsewhere.
Small niggles can be dealt with in the coming days: I'm not in love with the end of the lede, which repeats the word "hidden" quite a lot, but I can't at the moment think of better wording. The 1882 eat listing will need to be updated after Wednesday 3rd August, because they're renovating, getting a new menu, and changing opening hours.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:20, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Darn what a coincidence! I really should've checked what was going on with 1882 Hall when I was there last month. It really does bother me given I was at Kynefin Cafe for my afternoon snack after descending down from One Tree Hill which was just a few steps away from the town's only restaurant :-(. I'll try and do a quick checkup (and may stop there for dinner) when I do my annual summit walk up Mount Kosciuszko this November. But anyway, thanks for the copyedits. Really appreciated. :-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:17, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Another small thing: is Hall a village or a town? I don't consider those interchangeable, though maybe they are in the context of Australia.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:51, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
In Australia (at least, this is true in all the states) the definitions are quite simple. Any settlement with over 200 inhabitants is (officially) considered a town, and anything over 10,000 is a city. Settlements with fewer than 200 inhabitants is up to interpretation; most Australians would call it a township, some might still call it a town, others would call it a settlement. "Village" is not usually used in Australian English, but Uriarra Village also in the ACT has earned the title of "community village" (no other settlement in Aus has this title), and the ACT government does (overly) promote Hall as a village. This sign in Hall claims that Hall is a heritage village, but the encyclopedia claims it's a township. Per official definitions, Hall, with a population of 271, would technically be considered a town, so I'm really undecided now, though I slightly favour following the encyclopedia and using "township". SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:16, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
They probably can be used interchangeably here, then.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:51, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
August 3 now, and it seems their new menu is out. However, there doesn't seem to be any major changes that would require a significant change to the description. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Let's wait a bit; I think the copy can be tweaked somewhat. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:32, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Indeed, some copy editing is needed. I checked the first page and the language doesn't strike me as "stylistically superior and effective". –LPfi (talk) 05:05, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Are we talking about copyedits (as in spelling and grammar fixes), or just general improvements in quality? If the former, there shouldn't be many, but please go ahead regardless. If the latter, some examples of text that stands to be improved would be helpful.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:45, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Outcome: 3 weeks now, given that all issues have been fixed, per the notice on the top of this page, I'm going to upgrade this so this doesn't get lost in the pile for another few years to come. So essentially promoted. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:34, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

This inappropriate, irregular attempt to self-promote this nomination hastily while I'm on vacation is hereby reverted with prejudice. Let no-one ever do this kind of thing again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
I don't care if you're on vacation and it wasn't my intention to deliberately promote the article while you were on vacation, but whether you like it or not, it was promoted per policy from the top which I will paste below.

After three weeks of discussion, if a consensus is reached, then that article becomes a star, and the discussion should be archived. A consensus means that all outstanding objections should have been addressed and dropped; if issues remain then the discussion should be left open for two months to allow time to fix the article and reach a consensus.

Was there consensus? Yes there was – it doesn't matter how many users participated the nomination, but in this case, there was no opposition (apart from you and you're only opposing because you don't agree with how this was promoted). Were all the objections addressed and dropped? Yes, it was – the lede and the entire article was copyedited. Were there any outstanding objections before it was promoted? Nope. That meant it could be promoted per the policy. If you want to change the policy, wait till your proposal gets consensus but that will only affect future nominations, not this one.
So, really, maybe you should be the one to reconsider your actions when I followed the policy before calling my promotion as "unilateral", "arbitrary", "hasty", "[the policy] was abused". In this case, you were the one who didn't follow policy by instantly reverting instead of listing this article at Wikivoyage:Star nominations#Nominations to remove Star status, unarchiving a closed threads when archived, closed threads aren't supposed to be edited afterwards they've been archived. And no, I repeat that it was NOT my intention to deliberately take advantage of your vacation to promote this article so maybe reconsider what you type before making assumptions; that does even make me wonder why I should argue with you when you decided to not follow policy when you won't show me basic courtesy. I don't care whether it's your intention to follow policy (and IAR doesn't apply here), but I'm going to follow the policy and rearchive this. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:49, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Note the phrase you quoted: "A consensus means that all outstanding objections should have been addressed and dropped". What about "Let's wait a bit; I think the copy can be tweaked somewhat." I am also chocked that you don't respect the protest. "I am right so I will do it" is not the wiki way. Why can't we wait a week for IK to return from his vacation? You plunged forward, and that's OK (although plunging forward may be met by astonishment, like now, and that's also OK). But you were reverted, and then you should wait until the discussion has settled, or let somebody else make the judgement call. –LPfi (talk) 09:54, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
I get that I might've gone overboard with this, but it really isn't my problem that Ikan did not follow policy. The only edit I made that could be said to go against policy was the consensus bit, but consensus can be interpreted differently by person, so I repeat, I didn't break policy, Ikan did. I should probably stop rambling on now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
I get that you're upset, but promoting the article without a consensus was the only edit that was against policy. It wasn't a major infraction, in my opinion, despite the controversy that's been generated. Ikan reverting back to the status quo was within policy, because your promotion was premature and we have a Status quo bias. As I already implied, he should have assumed good faith instead of reacting angrily to your actions. Wikivoyage is important to those of us who care about it, but let's remember we're only arguing over a few lines of code on a computer. Passion is good, but it's not worth falling out over. And, sorry, I'm not trying to patronise anyone, but I'm British, so... yeahhh.-ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Resuming the discussion of the articleEdit

OK, considering that star articles should be as close to perfect as possible, do we want to start the article with a question:

"Have you ever wondered whether there were any settlements in/around Canberra before the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) was established?"

Or should we start with what's currently the second sentence?

"Hall is one of the last few remnants of what was New South Wales (NSW) bushland before the capital was established."

I'd suggest the following as the first sentence:

"Hall is one of the last few remnants of what was New South Wales (NSW) bushland before Canberra and the Australian Capital Territory were established."

I'd slightly tweak the next sentence, too:

"The historic village of 271 (2016) has a distinct identity and resembles a classic Australian rural town, but is in fact only separated from the Canberra suburbs by about a kilometre of countryside."

I'd suggest:

"The historic village of 271 (2016) has a distinct identity and resembles a classic Australian rural town although it is separated from the Canberra suburbs by only about a kilometre of countryside."

If you all are OK with this kind of copy editing, I will try to go through the entire article and see if I can edit it to my and everyone else's satisfaction, hopefully with help from some of you. I'm a busy man, what with school restarting soon and various things to deal with when I get home, but this article is brief. Give me time to copy edit and do not rush anything. I'd much prefer for starnoms to be met with unanimous support, even if it takes months, and don't really agree that legitimate objections of a lack of perfection in any respect should be brushed aside in these kinds of nominations, ever. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I am a bit puzzled by a rural town being an example of bushland. I thought bushland was where you get when leaving the towns and villages behind. I try to tweak some other wordings. –LPfi (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"The bush" is a colloquial term that simply means anywhere that has an urban feeling. In an Australian context, it seldom refers to the literal sense of bushland used elsewhere. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. Do you mean "that does not have an urban feeling"? –LPfi (talk) 06:22, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh yes, I meant that. Apologies for that. I should stop multitasking... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:25, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
[Edit conflict] Another thing that puzzles me is "The first thing you will need to realise is that Hall is not on the beaten track". Is it important to realise? Why? Please tell what I need to do to prepare. Or is this just some flavouring, which in fact means "Bus service is sparse"? –LPfi (talk) 06:20, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
The latter (i.e. some added flowery language). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:26, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestions. My thoughts on your proposed wordings as follows:
  1. I don't see why not? Not every article has to begin with an inspiring but non-rhetorical question
  2. The land that makes up the ACT was transferred from NSW to the Commonwealth in 1911, while Canberra was established 2 years later. I don't think two years is a whole lot to merit saying two different terms that essentially mean the same thing from a traveller's POV
  3. Not sure. I like both your's and tt!'s (who wrote/copyedited that sentence) equally
For 2, I suppose we don't need to mention Canberra, i.e. "Hall is one of the last few remnants of what was New South Wales (NSW) bushland before the Australian Capital Territory was established." primarily because some would argue that Hall is not a part of Canberra (even though Canberra = ACT in the eyes of the ACT govt.) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:50, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
FWIW, I quite like starting the lede with a question, though I'd get rid of the "in/around" and just pick one.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Alternatively, for point 1, how about "Have you ever wondered whether there were any settlements in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) before it was established?" SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Not yet This is a good article, which fully satisfies being a Guide. However I don't think that it has quite reached the Star quality.
  1. I think it should have an Understand section. There are two paragraphs in the lede, but I think we should have more - eg do most of the resident commute to Canberra, or do they work in rural industies? Is the population stable at 271, or has it been much larger or smaller?
  2. There is no mention of horses but the Mapnik map shows a horse paddock and Hall Showground Equestrian Park (where the market marker is).
  3. For an article about a place with so little to see or do, it really has to be complete to be a star. For example, describe what is in Hall Park - the picnic tables, community playground and Well Monument. Maybe Hops and Vine should have a listing.
  4. Some of the text reads like a blog rather than a travel guide.
  5. As the bus service is so poor, is there somewhere nearby to get a bus to and then walk or taxi?

I am not convinced that this is the best guide to Hall available - if I was going there I would prefer to read How to spend a day in Hall from Eat Canberra, and take a copy of this National Trust Hall Village Heritage Walk. AlasdairW (talk) 22:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback + additions. Really appreciated :-). For your points:
  1. City districts don't usually have understand sections as I mentioned above and adding one would be very short (unlike Canberra/Civic), though I did think about adding one. I couldn't find any information on where most of the town's residents commute to, but I wouldn't add that as that's way too encyclopedic for a travel guide. Population-wise, again, would be too encyclopedic and can go out-of-date.
  2. https://actsportsgrounds.act.gov.au/sportsgrounds/Hall%201 says the equestrian centre can only be used by certain equestrian groups, not passer-by travellers. Likewise, I don't think the horse paddock is for public use; in fact, I don't remember seeing a horse paddock, nor did I even know there was one before making the static map. Looking at GSV, it appears that it's someone's private property.
  3. Bit of background here: I've objected to ordinary municipal parks with nothing so remarkable (like a botanic garden) to go into detail, and have removed such listings before from many Quebec articles merely because they're wv:boring for most. Even though it's not policy, the same principles apply. Regarding Hops and Vine, I wasn't sure if it was in scope, but if it is, then I'll add it.
  4. Part of that can be explained by my personal writing style – that is, writing in a journalistic form. Are there specific sections that look more like a blog than a travel guide?
  5. Not that I'm aware of. It really shouldn't be surprising though – it's almost impossible to find good public transport in regional areas.
  6. I'm aware of the Hall Heritage Walk, but I deliberately didn't include it because it reads more like a personal itinerary – IIRC, I don't remember the wall being signposted on the ground, and adding it would be against our personal itineraries policy. The article contains all the listings mentioned in How to spend a day in Hall FWIW.
I'll implement some of your suggestions, particularly the third one. Not sure where the horses should be mentioned, but for now, I'll mention it in the Hall Showground listing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 04:09, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the updates.
  1. Ok - as Hall is described as a rural town, I forgot that it is a city district. As we don't have an ACT state article, it would be a big change to make it a city.
  2. Ok - Equestrian park now mentionned.
  3. Whilst ordinary parks are boring for sightseeing, they are useful.
  4. e.g. "Just next to the trail is a small carpark, which doesn't have many spaces available but few actually use that carpark in the first place." rather than "Small carpark which often has free spaces.".
  5. The bus only works as a day trip if you are coming from Yass, not Canberra. But I think you could get a bus to Gold Creek in Gungahlin and then it is a 3km walk - is this workable?
  6. I thought the National Trust was a respected heritage body and if they have been actively involved in the village they would be a primary source, but maybe there isn't that much to see on the walk.
Thanks AlasdairW (talk) 23:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
We usually don't have Understand sections for district articles, but I think this town is so much different in character than the rest of Canberra that an Understand is warranted. I don't think it is "too encyclopedic" to tell whether the inhabitants get their living here or whether they commute and whether the population has been stable or seen drastic changes. It may not be essential, but would certainly be worth mentioning. –LPfi (talk) 04:33, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Belgian coast by tramEdit

It's taken two months to get this article from a request to a guide article, which is currently nominated for Featured Travel Topic, ideally to be featured in an upcomming summer. Since my request for improvements to be made has yet to yield any suggestions, and since feedback on the DOTM-nomination has been very positive thus far, I reckon I should just nominate it for a star sooner rather than later. I have made some remarks on the talk page request linked above about the state of the article right now, but I'd be surprised if any of it is a huge issue.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 16:05, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

  • Support. A few redlinks need to be fixed, and some small formatting changes to the table, for example, need to be made, but as these are easily fixed, they do not deter me from supporting a star article nomination. This article is one of the few "complete" articles on Wikivoyage because it has been written by a dedicated editor to cover every detail as a complete travel guide. This makes it a great example of what a "star" article should be. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 16:19, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
    Thank you for the kind words, @SelfieCity. They're much appreciated!
    I've gone ahead and removed all unnecessary redlinks excluding one to Veurne, which I plan to add in the near future. Other than that, the links to De Panne are redlinks in all but name, but in fairness, it was only created last August. Anywho, the table has also been reformatted to hopefully be a bit less intrusive, but let me know if you had other problems with it.
    -- Wauteurz (talk) 18:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
    No, I'm really happy with this article. It's great to see its star potential! --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:55, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Close. No doubt this will become a star article, though I do have a few points to raise (mostly concerning the Wikivoyage:Image policy).
    • There is a gallery-like set of images in § Running stock. Should this be an exception to the Wikivoyage:Image policy?
    • Likewise, there are some left-aligned images.
    • Sometimes some images leave a lot of unnecessary white space. Should these be reorganised?
Otherwise, it's looking really good. It's practically "complete", and it's nice to have our star article from Belgium. Nicely done, Wauteurz. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Thank you!
The gallery-like template is {{multiplemaps}}, once known as {{multiple image}}. It's used site-wide for mostly listing maps side-by-side, but also sees some use for displaying multiple images together for comparison, which is the main purpose in this particular use case. The way I see it, it's better than listing rolling stock in images above and below each other, as that quickly gives the impression that it's a technical page about what kind of trams you'll encounter, which it definitely isn't. It's just nice to be able to identify the trams you'll be using, so you know what you can expect in the ways of provisions and accessibility. I essentially took the 'format' from Rail travel in the Netherlands and made it work here. Rest assured though, within a few years that template will only list two, or will possibly just be a single image, as the BN's are being replaced with the Zeelijner, and the HermeLijn stock might be retired from coastal duties.
About alignment, {{panorama}} is centre-aligned. I don't think I have influence over that. Making it a normal image would take up a lot of width, which doesn't work well across different monitors. The only other left-aligned image is aligned as such to not push other images, which are equally additive to the article, too far down from their corresponding paragraphs. It's necessity more than looks that prompted that choice.
Your third point I don't think I can answer to, since I'm not quite sure what you mean by it? An example or two would definitely help, and I'll see if it's something I can mend tomorrow :)
-- Wauteurz (talk) 23:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The white space problem usually appears at specific browser window widths, or widths above or below some threshold. You could check by changing widths on a wide enough monitor. For my standard width, the only problematic place was at the top, caused by the nomination templates. I moved them up above the lead image, which fixed the problem – and that's where they should be. I also moved down the lead image to Understand, which is the standard placement, not to interfere with the banner. In a wide window, the lead is now too short; is there some sentence in Understand that could be copied here, or something else to be added? (We try to have a bit more substantial leads anyway.) –LPfi (talk) 06:48, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Maintaining statusEdit

Tasks and checks:

Article needing attention or maybe de-star nomination candidates.

  • As I pointed out, the map is better than a Wikivoyage-style map, so that's not a good reason to revoke star status at all. I also suggested that if it's really important to do so, the list of campsites could be subdivided by region. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:29, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  • This isn't a de-star nom though, just added it to a list of star articles that need tender loving care just like how Big Bend Nat Park is listed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:28, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Fair enough, but what are you suggesting should be done about the map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:09, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
    It doesn't show where any of the see listings are though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:34, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Nominations to remove Star statusEdit

Number of articles currently in review: 1

Whenever possible, articles should be fixed rather than de-starred. Only nominate articles which cannot be easily elevated/restored to "star" quality. Add to the article {{destarnomination}}. Vote "Star" or "Not Star".

Walt Disney World/Disney SpringsEdit

This has the same issues with Walt Disney World/Animal Kingdom except with fewer coordinates. Too much for a single person to do. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:52, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I've added about 20 coordinates but given the number of listings in this article, adding all coordinates will take a while. It should be clarified that coordinate markers do not match the numbers on the static map. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for adding them :-) I might speedy slush these once you and @Tai123.123 have finished adding coords. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
There seems to be alot of chains listed in "Buy" that may violate Wikivoyage:Boring, an example of this is Levi's. Tai123.123 (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
Levi's is definitely a boring place. I'd say remove those. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:22, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
@Tai123.123: I slushed the other one, and here's what I think are boring:
  • Lacoste
  • Levi's (as what you mentioned above)
  • Orlando Harley-Davidson
  • Superdry
  • Under Armour Brand House – tho the description makes me feel a this and that to be fair
  • Uniqlo (the Japanese clothing store is everywhere now)
  • Zara
  • Starbucks
However, I'm not going to remove any of these except Levi's because I'd want to get an opinion of one of our Americans first. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:52, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I'd say Uniqlo, Starbucks, Zara and Under Armour are boring as we have those in Canada, not sure about the others Tai123.123 (talk) 02:10, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Those are worldwide chains (we have them here too), so definitely not worth mentioning. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:25, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

On de-star decisionEdit

  • Remove the nomination discussion from this page and paste it to both Project:Star nominations/Archives and to the talk page of the article;
  • Update the article status template on the article from star to guide if decision is to de-star;