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Put a star on it!

This is where we determine whether an article is ready to be classified as Star status. Even though the criteria are fairly objective, it's good to get some additional eyes to look over a page and confirm that it's ready before elevating it to Star. For reference, here's the general description, from Project:Article status:

The article is essentially complete. It meets all of the above criteria. It follows the manual of style exactly or is the exception that proves the rule. Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. It has appropriate illustrations, such as photos and a map. Enough breadth and depth of material is presented that anyone familiar with the subject of the article would have little to point out as absent. Future changes to this kind of article would reflect changes in the subject (e.g. a museum closes, a hotel price changes, a new airport is built) more than they'd require improvements in the coverage.

Objective criteria for Star status varies depending on the kind of article it is. For more concrete guidance on this, see:

If you feel that an article currently at Star status is no longer worthy, or never was to begin with, this is also the place to nominate to de-star an article.

NominateEdit

Star articles: Last minute checklist

  • The article must be complete — See definition above.
  • Grammar and spelling must be perfect — See definition above. Prose should be stylistically superior and effective.
  • Illustration: the article should be appropriately illustrated with pictures and a Wikivoyage-style map, with all attractions marked.
  • Listings should be in alphabetical order — geographical order is also acceptable if it is deemed better.
  • No duplications: a listing should appear under one section only — if there is ambiguity, put it under the section that it most applies to.
  • Time and date formats: Use: M,Tu,W,Th,F,Sa,Su; and check our manual of style for latest and complete policy
  • Section introductions are not mandatory but should be present when they serve to improve a section.
  • Use "—" (mdash) for breaks in thought.
  • Use abbreviations for addresses, e.g., St, Ave, Sq, Blvd

You can nominate any "guide" quality article you think is ready to be declared a "star". Please do not nominate an article if you know that it falls short of the criterion above — refer to the info box for a last minute checklist. If there are other nominations on this page, add yours to the bottom of the list. The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for,
plus a swell kitchen sink. ~~~~

Having done this, please add the tag

{{starnomination}} 

at the beginning of the article, after the {{pagebanner}} tag.

You may also post a note at Requests for comment to publicize your nomination — remember to tell people that partial critiques and even just a few quick words of support are welcome. These steps help draw attention to the article's nomination, improving the discussion as to whether it should be awarded star status.

DiscussEdit

Please comment on whether you agree that the nominated article is ready, with a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion. If you think it's ready, a simple "Support" will do. If not, explain what you think is missing or not up to standards. You don't have to leave a detailed critique to vote on the star — partial critiques are welcome, and feel free to just voice your support for the hard work someone else has done.

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for, plus a swell kitchen sink.  TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* The sink isn't properly formatted, and there are no "budget" places to sleep. ~~~~

After three weeks of discussion, if a consensus is reached, then that article becomes a star, and the discussion should be archived. A consensus means that all outstanding objections should have been addressed and dropped; if issues remain then the discussion should be left open for two months to allow time to fix the article and reach a consensus. If the outstanding issues cannot or will not be addressed in reasonable time, the article should be added to the slush pile. Regardless of the outcome, it is useful to copy the nomination discussion to the article's talk page.

Successful nominationsEdit

  • Remove the nomination discussion from this page to Project:Star_nominations/Archives
  • Copy the nomination discussion to the talk page of the new star article
  • Add the article to Star articles (and change the map on that page)
  • Remove starnomination template from article
  • Update the article status template on the article from guide to star
  • Add |star=yes to the Pagebanner at the top of the article (see also Template:Pagebanner if more than one icon is required)
  • If the article is currently being nominated at Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates, update the article status parameter in the nomination template.

Failed nominationsEdit

Articles should only be renominated when they address criticisms from the previous nomination.

Nominations for Star statusEdit

Number of articles currently in review: 3

For an archive of previous successful nominations please see Project:Star nominations/Archives.

Please add {{starnomination}} to the top of the article being nominated. This will add it to Category:Star article nominations.

Tourist Drive 33Edit

Although I'm biased (as I wrote most of the article and its listings) I think that this article is essentially complete. I've asked someone (a mate) to try and use this article as their only source of using Tourist Drive 33 without going to other websites as well. This went successful and I think others'd have a similar experience too. It also has a bit of extras so even using Google Maps won't be needed (although it won't work for parts of it). Please let me know if anything is falling short and I'll fix it.

This also fits what's expected of a star:

Has a map showing the route of the itinerary, identifying landmarks (such as cities) along the way. -   Done

The format either matches the manual of style exactly or is the exception that proves the rule. -   Done

Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. -   Done

At least one good-quality photo accompanies the article; preferably 2-3 showing famous or important attractions. -   Done

Plus if this is successful, we'd have our first star article on the Australian east coast or infact, anywhere that's not in WA and Wikivoyage's first road itinerary star. SHB2000 (talk) 04:46, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!:   Done SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:09, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: - is there also anything else that I can work on? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:28, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I haven't really had a chance for a proper look at this yet. Also, I don't have much experience writing or using WV itineraries, have never visited Australia, and can't drive, so my opinion may not be worth much.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:35, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I see, also, by the way, I don't drive as well. And the problem with itineraries is that there's only four star itineraries, with none of them being a long and isolated "drive" (one of them is drive itself). Tbh, and no offense to anyone here, but I might actually be the one here who's had the most experience with itineraries, as I usually go at least two a month. I just go out a lot. I also don't think anyone has written as many proper itineraries as I have. (wp admin Evad37 has but mostly copied of enwiki) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
No offence taken. If you have never actually driven the route yourself, how do you know the content is all accurate? Have you done the journey as a passenger? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:53, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, 4 times now and I've done the northerly section about 10 times now. I'm also applying for my drivers license soon but I'm probably not going to do that for another year. Expect more itineraries in a few years, although I am planning to move to Melbourne in a few years time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:54, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: - I've also added some more information about the side tracks and alternate paths one can use. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:30, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@Nurg: -   Done merged. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Further comments - looking at it further, there are a few typos and weirdly-formulated sentences here and there (I'm changing them as I see them).
  • It strikes me that the towns and attractions en-route should probably have more descriptive information about them, especially those that don't have their own article or listing elsewhere. For instance: why is the zoo so famous and what can you see there?; what is Glenworth Valley like as a place - is it a town, village, a park, a literal valley? Basically every time there's a marker, but little or no information, I wonder what's lacking. From Cessnock Bypass onwards, there are no more markers or photos; why not?
  • Again from the perspective of a non-driver, as a practical guide I don't think you'd need any other source to follow the route (other than a paper map of course!); however, some of the tourist information is a bit sparse and could do with fleshing out.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Not yet. This article was only created in January, and there is no sign that any readers have successfully followed the directions in the article. I would prefer to wait a year or so to see if there are any edits from others who have followed the route.
Some detailed points:
  • The term "tourist drive" is not explained - this should be here or in Australian Tourist Drives - how well are these drives marked, are there many roadside interpretation boards etc. -   Done
  • The introduction should succinctly say how long the drive takes, both as a direct A-B route and stopping as recommended here. It could also say a little of where it is - something like "inland from Gosford, ??? km north of Sydney".
  • Get around should explain more about the type of car required, and if you can rent one locally.
  • The caption "Wisemans Ferry; once part of the Great North Road. Still is." is confusing. Is it part of the drive or not? -   Done
  • We are told 3 times that Glenworth Valley has outdoor laser tag, but no details - how much, are booking required etc. There are several other cases of duplication. -   Done
  • One of the things to see is "1813". I don't have a time machine! -   Done
  • A location should only have one marker - the full page map just shows duplicates as a cross. If there are two different things in the one place, move the markers 100m apart. -   Done
  • Is "Alternate Tourist Drive 33" a marked route? -   Done
  • We need some details on getting the key for Big Yango Loop Trail - how far in advance should you phone, and is the key pickup nearby? [1] says "Vehicle access to this attraction is only available to visitors who are camping or staying at Big Yango House, Blue Gums campground or Mountain Arm campground. Gate codes will be provided in booking confirmations.", so this needs more details.
  • Other tracks looks to repeat tracks which are listed just above. -   Done
  • Assuming this isn't a daytrip, where are there good motels, B&Bs etc on the route?
A lot of good work has been done on this, but star is a high standard and so patience is required. AlasdairW (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@AlasdairW: - sorry for annotating your message, but I'll use this as a checklist. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 23:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Almost Support I think it's nearly there, here are a few things I'd suggest fixing:
  • There are a few red links in the article
  • Not all of the listings have co-ordinates
  • Some sections are missing distance.
  • Grammar must be perfect - some capital letters and punctuation are missing
  • Per this, the logo at the top of the page might not be free to use.
I hope this helps! 82.3.185.12 18:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thanks for the feedback User:82.3.185.12, The logo is only not free in Australia but it's too simple to be copyrighted. I will remove the redlinks, as these places are too small for it's own article.

I've also added a small map for each section of the drive, preventing the reader from having to scroll up. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

  • I've started to look through it. It needs some edits for style, and there's some text that I think should be offloaded to a smaller article about Australian tourist drives in general. I just made the following edits:
Original:
No other place of Australia has long interior tourist routes as well situated as this one - with either the views, the access, the wineries, the length and variety of environments or its historical significance. To travel from either Gosford or Hornsby along this route, even only in sections if restricted by time or budget, is an experience that has an impact on most travellers.
It's also where Glenworth Valley and the Hunter Valley Gardens are situated, making it one of the most used tourist drives in Australia along with the Grand Pacific Drive or Great Ocean Road (B100).
Edited version:
No other place in Australia has long interior tourist routes as well situated as this one - either the views, access, wineries, the length and variety of environments or their historical significance pale in comparison. To travel from either Gosford or Hornsby along this route, even only in sections if restricted by time or budget, is a memorable experience.
Glenworth Valley and the Hunter Valley Gardens are situated along this route, making it one of the most heavily used tourist drives in Australia along with the Grand Pacific Drive or Great Ocean Road (B100).
For an article to be a star, it must have really vivid and attractive writing that is not perfunctory or awkward in any way.
Here's the text that I think should be partly offloaded and edited:
For a route to be classified as a Tourist Drive or Tourist Route in New South Wales, each drive must go through nomination process, it could be promoted to a tourist drive. However, in the early 2010s, 12 of around 70 tourist drives in New South Wales were decommissioned - meaning they lose their status, however, Tourist Drive 33 was one of their first tourist drives declared in the 1960s - and it's one of the few Tourist Drives that are still standing today that were declared in the 1960s, better than it originally was with much more side trips and more places to see.
I think it's fine to say that this is one of only a few of the tourist drives that has been continuously so classified since the 60s, but the details of how routes are nominated and decommissioned don't strike me as really interesting to read about in the context of a single drive.
I will look through the article and do more copy editing, but it is not yet a star. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Ikan! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:10, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Sure thing! Be patient, though. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Sure SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:31, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Stratford (Victoria)Edit

I think this article fits the requirements for star status. There's a variety of good quality images in the article to enhance the reader's understanding, there's both a static and dynamic map, and most sections are basically comprehensive. The listings are well detailed where need be, and the ones that aren't are fairly self explanatory: for example, Hobbies Plus is a model train store, and there's not much more to say. I've also gone through the article to abbreviate "Road" and "Street" where needed and sort listings in alphabetical order, and so I think it's pretty good when it comes to the manual of style. And not to toot my own horn too much, but I think the prose is easy to understand and helpful for travellers. --LivelyRatif ication (talk) 00:51, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment: Looks pretty damn comprehensive for what it is. That said, a couple sections look like they should be either expanded or omitted. "Cope", for instance, is currently a one-line section. Per Wikivoyage:Article skeleton templates/Sections#Cope, such sections tend to be a bit heterogeneous/miscellaneous, and gives examples of things a traveller may be interested in that you could expand that section with -- for instance, religious institutions and beauty services. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 10:37, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
I added "Cope", I think, just before nominating this, and I'm not entirely sure why I forgot to add in religious institutions. Anyway, I've now added them in. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure of their service times, apart from St Andrew's Uniting Church, as they have a website. I'll try looking into other services but I'm not aware of any (for example, Stratford used to have a hairdresser but no longer does). --LivelyRatification (talk) 12:05, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - It's good for a damn rural (country, as Victorians call it) towns and if I went to Stratford again, I'd probably not even check Google. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Very close - apart from the three questions I asked in hidden comments, some of the listings need more detail: opening hours should be provided for every single listing, as should room rates for Sleep listings. Overall, a great small town article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:34, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
I've fixed the 3 issues you've raised, and I'm currently getting on top of adding opening hours and room rates. Hopefully it should be done by the end of the day: need to get opening hours for the op shop and rates for the motel. Will keep you updated.--LivelyRatification (talk) 23:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: Done. --LivelyRatification (talk) 02:23, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Cool, looks great now. Could you put a note in 'Sleep' stating that accommodation options are limited to those three (if that's indeed the case)? Also, is it me or do all the phone numbers look different now? Shouldn't there some be spacing in them somewhere? Other than those minor points, I'm ready to support.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Oops, didn’t see this. I’ll add a note in the sleep section accordingly. @SHB2000: was the one who changed the phone numbers, and speaking purely aesthetically and subjectively, I preferred the original formatting, but this formatting I believe is for internationalisation purposes. That being said, I think there should be a gap between +61, which is the country code, and the rest of the digits. I’ve pinged SHB in case they have any objection to me making that change (won’t do it right now as I’m on mobile) --LivelyRatification (talk) 05:41, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it's for internalisation purposes. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
And I’ve made the sleep section change. Will make the phone number change soon (e:g, +61 XXXXXXXX instead of +61XXXXXXXXX) --LivelyRatification (talk) 05:49, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
  • A few questions:
    • "Tickets aren't actually available in Stratford, oddly enough, so if you want to take the train back to Melbourne, you have to get the ticket from Sale train station" – or buy a return ticket in Melbourne, right? I'm guessing this is only a problem if you arrive in Stratford without already having a ticket out, but please confirm. If I'm understanding correctly, let's add "if you don't already have a ticket" or something like that to clarify.
    • "The reserve also has an oval and benches which may be used by local groups." I'm not sure what this means. Is the point that it's used by Gunaikurnai people for meetings, or that it's used by some other groups?
    • Where does the Arts Trail begin and end – how do I get to the trailhead?
    • More details needed about the Shakespeare on the River Festival – where in town is it held? How much do tickets cost? Are the performances any good?
    • Apparently one of the accommodation options is located at a wildlife shelter. Can the wildlife shelter be visited by travellers who aren't staying at the hotel? Is it worth a visit?
    • The banner doesn't do much for me – can we find a more attractive banner photo?
I can't tell how thorough the article's coverage is, but I don't see any red flags. It's enjoyable to read, and piques my interest in visiting Stratford if I ever find myself in Victoria. —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your questions! You’re correct about the ticket thing, it’s only an issue if you don’t buy a return ticket. Granted, that section is probably biased somewhat by the fact that I found myself in that position, but it could be clarified. I’m unaware if the Gunaikurnai people use it specifically, but I am aware that local community groups have held events there. Perhaps it’s a bit redundant, but I thought it might be good to put there to inform readers it may be busy. I have no idea about the Arts Trail’s specific route, and when I visited the Segue Cafe in April, they told me they didn’t currently have a map of it, but you can access the Avon River from a path at the corner of McMillan and McFarlane Street. Where exactly the events are held for the festival vary (I’ve unfortunately never had the chance to see it), but events are mainly held in the Stratford Courthouse, which is in the same building as the Segue Cafe. Prices do also vary, and I’m wary of providing prices based on this year as they are prone to change. I’ve never visited the shelter, so again, I can’t comment. As for the banner photo, I’m sure there are some alternatives that I could try, either based off what’s already on Commons or from my own personal photo gallery. --LivelyRatification (talk) 06:47, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
I like the banner on your userpage but it looks too Melbourny rather than Stratfordy. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:54, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Can’t use CropTool right now for obvious reasons but here are some photos I’ve found from my gallery — and , would either one of these make a better header? Also fun fact about my userpage banner is that Tyers Street is actually misspelled on the image as Tyres (as in car tyres) Street. --LivelyRatification (talk) 07:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Tyres Street has to go in Places with unusual names SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:38, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
And what about File:Stratford.JPG for page banner? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
That works. --LivelyRatification (talk) 10:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Sorry for rushing it though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:02, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification – I've adjusted the article slightly, please change as needed. I like the new banner. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:04, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Doesn't look like there are any issues with your edits, and the banner looks better. Might try and take a better photo next time around. --LivelyRatification (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Support - the article looks very good. You have to zoom out a bit to see all of the listings and the mapshape, and the 'Shakespeare on the River Festival' listing says that the date that the listing was last changed needs updating - I don't know why this is, but it could be that the listing was updated but the date wasn't? Other than this, I think that the article is fine. 82.3.185.12 18:20, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

The map thing is by design. It's zoomed into the main street as that's where all but 2 of the listings are. I have no idea why the listing is doing that, that's really weird. --LivelyRatification (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@LivelyRatification: Changing it to a 'do' listing seemed to fix it. 82.3.185.12 16:00, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@82.3.185.12 Event listings aren't meant to appear on the map. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:35, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Close Another article which was started this year. A few points:
  • Unless the town is world famous for roof tiles, it needs a new banner.
  • Understand could have a paragraph describing the town today - population, major employers etc.
  • By train needs proper information on getting tickets if your journey starts in Stratford. Phone Vline and find out - I expect that you can either buy your ticket in some local shop, or board the train without a ticket and buy it at the other end - there may also be signs in the station that explain. At the moment the article seems to suggest that you have to walk to Sale, which is clearly nonsense.
  • I think see and do could be expanded. The Arts Trail needs more details - enough to walk around without picking up the tour from a cafe which is only open until 2:30PM.
  • What is in the Stratford Highway Park? Swallow Lagoon Nature Conservation Reserve?
  • WP mentions a model railway shop - is that still there?
  • The Medical Centre is probably better in Stay Safe than Cope, then it can be in the same para as the hospital.
I see no harm in waiting a few months to see if there are any edits from visitors to Stratford. AlasdairW (talk) 22:53, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
I don't mind a new banner, there are plenty of possible images we could choose. That's a good suggestion in regards to population and industry, which I can work on. You can't buy your ticket in any local shop in Stratford, and you can't buy it at the other end, I've taken this train journey as recently as last month. The only way to take the train from Stratford is to get the ticket from a ticket outlet before your journey, of which none are in Stratford. The nearest one is in Sale at the train station. There is an option to have your ticket mailed to you, but for obvious reasons I didn't think that would be helpful for travellers.
I would ideally have liked to expand the Arts Trail listing on my last visit, but the cafe didn't actually have a tour on site. I will work on expanding that if I can, as I've never actually walked the trail itself. I've not been to either the Highway Park nor the Conservation Reserve, which are both outside the town of Stratford itself, but from what I can find they're both nature reserves, which I suppose could be interesting, but I don't think are terribly important given I hadn't heard of them before this and didn't see them in any of the tourist information I'd checked in both Stratford or on the internet. The model railway shop is there, and has a listing. --LivelyRatification (talk) 02:41, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Tried to address as many of the issues as I could @AlasdairW: as it turned out, while I haven't walked the Arts Trail in one go, I've walked most of it before, and I managed to find a map of the trail. I've added a new banner, information about population + industry, and moved the medical centre. Are there any other issues of concern? --LivelyRatification (talk) 03:43, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
According to Public Transport Victoria "If you get on at an unstaffed V/Line station or roadside coach stop, you can buy a ticket from the train conductor or coach driver." However I couldn't find this on the Vline website, or details of whether the conductors took cards or cash. So I think this is best resolved by asking by email or phone. AlasdairW (talk) 21:12, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Very good article. I made a few small edits for style and such. The only question I thought of is why I'd want to know the addresses of the police station and fire brigade, since if I needed their services, I'd just call the emergency number that's presumably the same nationwide. But it's no harm to include that information. I'd love for Powers to read the article because he's so good at seeing small details I miss, but I will be happy to support this nomination whenever others agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:02, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I almost forgot: I do wonder what the purpose is for having a static and a dynamic map in the article. If there were only one map, maybe there would be no need to put any thumbnails on the left, which is not so traditional on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:03, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I don't mind removing the dynamic map, personally. Just thought both might be useful for the reader, given Knob Reserve and Deep Creek Gully are outside frame. --LivelyRatification (talk) 02:51, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Let's see what other people think. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
The dynamic map is still available from the icon in the upper right corner, or from any listing marker (do they link to different maps?). I don't know whether our readers know/understand/will find out that the dynamic map is available if it is not shown. An explicit link from the caption of the static map would work, wouldn't it? –LPfi (talk) 11:07, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
It would, though how I'm imagining it looks ugly. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
The map from the icon in the upper right corner is in a different style than the ones produced using {{mapframe}}. Also, these are currently broken, with all controls missing. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 12:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Well, some articles like Niagara Falls have two maps, Innamincka once had two, so I see no probs with this one. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Because there's no obvious reason for having two. I have a preference for static maps, all things being equal, but that's sort of neither here nor there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:44, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Dynamic maps can get messy at times. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:51, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
The dynamic map using toolforge is different from the one using {{mapframe}} completely, and I'd argue it's worse in almost every way. Let's rather introduce the same thing as we have for {{Regionlist}} (regionInteractiveMap)...? And probably let's move this branch of discussion to TP? -- andree.sk(talk) 14:56, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I am flattered, Ikan, though also a bit out of practice. Fortunately, it's a short article.
  • I found the description of the Arts Trail route very confusing, even with the map adjacent to the text. In particular: the description of using Raymond to get to Merrick *and* McMillan, even though McMillan doesn't intersect Raymond; the use of "opposite the Avon River" (opposite from what?); the apparent glossing-over of the McMillan discontinuity (it says you must cross Avon Park to get to McMillan, but you're already on McMillan); and the terminus of the route on Davis, which doesn't seem to intersect Princes Hwy at all (I think Dixon was meant?).
  • The price for "Concession" at the pool is confusing, though probably not so to an experienced Australian visitor. Where I come from, a concession is a retailer (usually selling food) inside another attraction. But it's a food stand, what does the single price get you?
  • The Post Office should be in Connect not Buy.
  • The Avon Hotel doesn't have rooms? Only food and drink?
  • The description of the Princes Freeway is confusing -- in what way is it classifiable as a freeway if it has houses and traffic lights?
  • Images (and the dynamic map and the climate graph) crowd the upper part of the article. Any way to pare those down?
-- Powers (talk) 18:47, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Powers. I'm really glad you looked over that article! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:02, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I've fixed, or at least tried to, the first three issues. Yes, the Avon Hotel only has food and drink, oddly enough. There's nothing on their site about accomodation, and I've been there quite a few times and never seen anything about accomodation, and "hotel" can just as often refer to "pub" as "accomodation" in rural Gippsland. The description of the Princes Freeway seems unnecessary to me. Yes, it goes through some towns, and so it does have houses and traffic lights, but that doesn't seem particularly notable. As for images, I'm not really sure. Maybe the train image could be removed? I've sized it down a tad. Thanks so much for your feedback, BTW, I do really appreciate it. --LivelyRatification (talk) 02:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
That thing's only notable as it's the world's only freeway to have traffic lights and houses. While the US' have Interstate routes that aren't freeways, they're not call it, unlike this. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:47, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

EastleighEdit

I have added lots to this article over the past month, and I believe it fits all the criteria to become a Star. 82.3.185.12 15:41, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

  • Has a tourist-style map with point-of-interest markers showing how to get around the destination, with major attractions, restaurants, etc. that match the listings in the guide. -   Done
  • Layout and listing formats either match the manual of style exactly or are the exception that proves the rule. -   Done
  • Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. - almost, though could be a lot better
  • At least one good-quality photo accompanies the article; preferably 2-3 showing famous or important attractions. -   Done

SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC) Check my new feedback below.

Still needs work:

  • There's almost certainly more to write about Chandler's Ford in 'Understand'.
  • Every listing needs a street address with postcode.
  • 'Get in' could do with some info on parking - is it easy, how much etc?
  • 'Get around' could list some useful bus routes, particularly for getting from Eastleigh town centre or the stations to outlying places of interest (CF, Bishopstoke, Marwell Zoo?)
  • 'Buy' mentions independent shops exist; are any worth listing? The shopping centre and supermarkets could do with full listings as well.
  • The 'Eat' section seems quite long; are there really 30+ highly recommended restaurants in Eastleigh, or could some of the fat not be trimmed off? I think they would be better organised by price (budget, mid-range, splurge) rather than cuisine. Listings also need full descriptions and some indication of price (e.g. average cost of a main).
  • Conversely, the 'Drink' section seems very short. I appreciate that User:82.3.185.12 may not be very well-versed in pubs yet and I'm happy to help add more if there are ones worth listing.
  • 'Sleep' - room rates are essential. There's probably a greater variety of accommodation than currently represented too (B&Bs, camping?). Again, should probably be split by price.
  • I agree with SHB2000 that the writing could be zingier. Also more photos! (hints: Marwell Zoo, River Itchen)

Apologies if a lot of this seems harsh or nitpicking, but 'Star' articles are essentially supposed to be perfect, so standards are really high. There may be other stuff I haven't spotted yet. The important thing is not to feel like you have to immediately tick everything off; there's absolutely no rush to complete anything, and this nomination can hang on here just fine for as long as people are working on the article (ignore the fanciful stuff above about "concluding after two months" which experience has taught me is unrealistically short).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: - What does this sentence mean? "I appreciate that User:82.3.185.12 may not be very well-versed in pubs yet and I'm happy to help add more if there are ones worth listing." SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
82 attends school, so is probably underage.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: There are more pubs however they are owned by chains, so I wasn't sure whether to include them per WV:Boring. There are a few B&Bs and definitely no camping sites. I've not added prices/opening hours since they are constantly changing due to COVID-19. 82.3.185.12 14:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: - None of my family have any interest in pubs or drink and it may explain why I tend to not improve the drink section sometimes. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:32, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
You can usually get a rough idea of prices from Google Maps or sites like Trivago etc. There was a discussion a while ago (here) regarding chain pubs, which didn't really get resolved; I think some are okay to list, as long as there's a balance. Some chain pubs are better than others - e.g. Wetherspoons always serve some local beers or ciders and often have good deals on food and cocktails, but Greene King pubs only sell their own low-quality beers.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:05, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Here is the list of pubs that I removed/didn't add, feel free to choose which ones should be in the article.

  • The Chamberlayne Arms (Marston's)
  • The Wagon Works - formerly The Tavern (Wetherspoons)
  • New Clock Inn (Hungry Horse)
  • The Station - formerly The Litten Tree (owned by Great UK Pubs)
  • The Spitfire - formerly Stones (Craft Union Pubs) 82.3.185.12 16:13, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Ta. Will look at those.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:43, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: Thanks! 82.3.185.12 16:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: There’s one more that I forgot about:
  • The Cricketers Arms (a Greene King pub) 82.3.185.12 19:15, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Not yet Almost Support (edited 11 May, and will change to support if lead paragraph is fixed)

I do also have some other feedback here:

  • Does the times include with traffic, or no traffic and at what time of the say will you be able to achieve that time. What about in traffic?
  • Explain a bot more on how to go from Southampton Airport to Eastleigh
  • Tone could be a bot more livelier.
  • Listings could be used for the buy section
  • Explain what's unique about all the pizza and fish and chips shops in Eastleigh, instead of broadly saying "xyz".
  • Are there any worship places in Eastleigh that could come under "Cope"?
  • Why are some measurements in miles and the others are in metres

I'm also sorry for nitpicking, but these are the things I thought could be better. Although I have to say, this article is looking better than Menzies SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 23:52, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@SHB2000:
  • Southampton Airport is in Eastleigh, hence why SOU IATA redirects to the 'By plane' section on Eastleigh's article.
  • I think there are too many listings under Eat, but I don't know which ones to remove.   Done - Most of the 'Eat' listings fit into one of the listings in the 'Buy' section above - it now only has nine items.
  • Not listing places of worship per this. There are also no mosques/synagogues/temples in Eastleigh, and there aren't really many things to do in the churches.
  • In England, we mainly use metres and miles (e.g. the shop is 100 metres up the road, the next motorway service station is 5 miles away) as miles is more common than km in the UK, and the only time you really hear distances measured in yards is on a satnav. 82.3.185.12 17:38, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
@82.3.185.12 That explains why I was confused when going on the M25 and the M3, 3 years back. I thought the US and Liberia were the only countries to still use the imperial system. (although NASA and SpaceX uses metric) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:34, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
But apart from that, I'm now going for Almost Support. Just the tone could be a bit more livelier. Also, in the routebox, doesn't M3 dump you onto Twickenham, not London? Yes, you do go on the A3 after that, but aren't they 2 separate roads? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:35, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000: Junctions 1 and 2 of the M3 are in Greater London. 82.3.185.12 16:05, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000: I think I have now implemented all your feedback apart from improving the tone. Could you please explain which part of the article needs to sound more lively? 82.3.185.12 17:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
By reading what it says at the top of the page, and looking at Caldas da Rainha's nomination, I believe that this article will get Star status on the 25th of May if all problems are solved and a consensus is achieved by then. 82.3.185.12 17:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Apologies for not responding this morning, but it's mainly the lead bit. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:14, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000: I have changed the top paragraph, change it further if you think it needs to be worded differently. 82.3.185.12 15:41, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Support SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:19, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @SHB2000: Thank you. 82.3.185.12 14:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Did you have a chance to look through my list of pubs yet? Two of them are in the Swan Centre (The Spitfire and The Station), but here are the other four:
  • The Chamberlayne Arms (Marston's)
  • The Wagon Works - formerly The Tavern (Wetherspoons)
  • New Clock Inn (Hungry Horse)
  • The Cricketers Arms (a Greene King pub) 82.3.185.12 16:43, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Not yet, but I haven't forgotten.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:00, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

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